Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:27, 2 February 2015

to one and all,
Have a prosperous, peaceful, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. GregKaye

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“	Jim Jones, David Koresh and Meir Kahane do not typify Christianity and Judaism in the eyes of the civilized West, but those same eyes are prone to see Osama bin Laden and Mullah Muhammad Omar as typifying Islam	”
— Richard Bulliet

WP:TALK#USE: "Explaining why you have a certain opinion helps to demonstrate its validity.."

Persecution

Thank you. I also created categories concerning the persecution of Copts, Greeks, Kurds, and Sami. If you wanted to nominate these categories for renaming, which I would be supportive of, perhaps they could be renamed something along the lines of Category:Anti-Assyrian sentiment, Category:Anti-Yazidi sentiment, etc? There are already a number of categories with that naming convention, such as Category:Anti-Chinese sentiment or Category:Anti-Polish sentiment. Would that work? Solar-Wind (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Solar-Wind I'm figuring this out myself. It seems to me that the anti-Xxx formula is pretty Misplaced Pages friendly and I think that it's a matter of juggling this with the way terms are used in sources. I guess that categories are forms of article titles so I guess that uses in reliable sources also become relevant. Thanks for getting back on this. GregKaye 18:24, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Help in taking over arbitration of a dispute?

Hello GregKaye, Based on my reading of your user page, I have gotten the impression that you may have expertise on Israel. Therefore and together with the fact that you are the only person whom I know to have an interest in Israel, I thought you may be able to provide some much needed perspective in a dispute. I was hoping you would help take over arbitration on an article where I feel my limited experience means that I am no longer able to help in carrying the discussion forward. I think if I carried on I would be doing a disservice to the other editors but mostly to readers as it is regarding insertion of a statement into the lead. I am also starting to question if I am using wiki policy in the right way when deciding if a sentence is a statement of fact. It is a very hot issue and the article is part of active arbitration remedies. I will not discuss the merits of the issue here but just ask that your read through the dispute and provide some valuable insight. I understand you may be busy so I completely understand if you say no. If you decide to go for it, let me know so that I can disengage from the conversation. The issue is the inclusion of a statement into the lead of the main Israel article. It is being discussed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Israel#Discussion_on_actual_wording

Regarding your post on my talk page, I will reply when I catch my breath. Mbcap (talk) 14:23, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Mbcap Thank you for this. In the occasionally fast moving world of WP it can be important to keep breathing. GregKaye 14:38, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2015

Hello, GregKaye. After you were banned from interacting with P-123 just a few days ago, you have "thanked" the user twice, and also thanked some other editors for P-123-related edits. It's difficult to take that as simple gratitude, and it's certainly interaction. You need to stop poking holes through your IBAN right now. Bishonen | talk 19:56, 5 January 2015 (UTC).

Understood. My edits, while breaking rules, were all in good faith. GregKaye 08:07, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Bishonen following other appreciated discussion I just wanted to leave open notification here of my plan to delete rather than archive this thread. GregKaye 11:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Some falafel for you!

Thanks for you efforts to make the Israel article a NPOV article. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 01:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Gouncbeatduke and בתאבון to you to. I am personally all for the fair highlighting of the Criticisms of Israel but this needs to be done in fair ways and with fairly presented guidelines based content. GregKaye 08:04, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit count

Something you said got me digging in the tools. On one article you have 468 edits (5.68% of total) and I have 432 edits (5.25% of total) right now. Your first edit was 8 Sept and mine Aug 10. I checked several other users and found one recently active one at almost 3%, several at 0.5% and the highest I could find was at 28.74%. http://tools.wmflabs.org/usersearch/index.html Legacypac (talk) 04:29, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Legacypac I can't specifically remember what this relates to. My personal view is that the content of your edits has been consistently good. GregKaye 07:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

We've both been accused of owning the same article - those are the real stats. Tonight, I just used the same tool and found 55% of the edits on Boko Haram - an astonishing 2438 edits - are by one user. It's missing a bunch of stuff (UN Security Council designation as terrorists, links to al-qaeda pledge to ISIL, declared a caliphate to start) and needs a serious fact check and rewrite. Legacypac (talk) 08:18, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Legacypac I think that such statistics may be relevant in substantiating any specifically asserted allegation of own but that the statistics, in themselves, proves nothing. Relevant OWN issues for you have related things like consultation issues such as when you made good faith and I think beneficial changes to article structure (which have largely been kept) but without consultation or when you've acted on suggestions in talk page on issues like archival settings. I appreciate that other editors may break these rules left and right but reporting back I think is a good practice ideal. I did not think that your previously expressed views on responses to gratitude were appropriate. My personal view has long been that there should be an emphasis on resolution and reconciliation in regard to editor and administrator intervention. There are editors that come who seem to me to be extremely prone to conflict and unreasoned argument and I think that, sometimes, it can be all too easy to respond in kind. Especially in a case where your argument may be right it can be easy to, contrary to your normal behaviour, respond harshly. GregKaye 09:07, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I've taken such comments to heart and have moderated my approach to sound much calmer. I think that shows in the ANi just closed for example. Don't harp on stuff from months ago. I changed archive settings to longer once at your suggestion. It didn't stick - no big deal. I don't archive threads as quickly as before or if I've been involved in the thread. I'm not holding your ill conceived suggestion to impose sanctions against me, or your encouraging a disruptive highly offensive editor to engage in areas I edit when I've being ignoring him for months. I pointed out the stats after you almost called me the primary editor of an article and because we get accused of own regularly. Look we think very much alike on policy and there is no reason we need to criticize each other. There are plenty of editors who are happy to do attack us both and they seize on any perceived criticism by anyone to build on. Legacypac (talk) 09:38, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Legacypac In many cases I regard you as the benchmark against which calmness should be measured and the issue for which you gained the diplomacy barnstar or whatever it was I regard as stunning. I only mentioned the issue of the archive settings to illustrate the point which I hope, as a friend, you can get. I agree with your idea of the move but not the way it was conducted. Please be aware that this kind of thing has been known to grate with editors and I am mentioning this with good faith in the hope that you get the point. Yes it was ill conceived. A genuinely highly disruptive editor has no place in Misplaced Pages. The article is very widely contributed to by many editors and I regard you as one of the greatly valued movers and shakers of the article. Your infobox and headings developed have, IMO, been second to none as far as contributions to the article go but, in the second case, I don't think that it should be down to other editors to establish consensus approval of the changes made. The stats tool looks really useful. In talk page stats, while you make a moderate 6% of contributions I possibly came as second highest contributor at ~16% of total contributions. I can live with that. Other editors may edit and argue in extreme ways and this lays people open to criticism. The best way not to have criticisms stick is to do no wrong. When I asked for reasons that I might be given a topic ban I do not think that there was anything that any editor would have had to say. I have made my mistakes, which I think in the Misplaced Pages scheme of things, were relatively minor, and have learned my lessons.

I have seen other editors work in a partisan type of way which sickens me. My hope is that Misplaced Pages will take a firm line on issues like canvassing and other abuses. We will see.

There have been times of pressure in WP and I have previously left messages saying things like thanks for the thanks. Hopefully those times have past. Its a new year. I foresee that we may have a less confrontational talk page. Let's see what happens. GregKaye 18:06, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Signature

GregKaye you still need to change you signature to your new name, at the moment it links to your old name User:Gregkaye and User talk:Gregkaye and then is redirected back to your new name User:GregKaye. -- PBS (talk) 12:09, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry PBS. I think that I made the wrong changes when looking at this last time. Do I need to go back over old edits to make changes? Some discussions have been/ may have been collapsed. GregKaye 07:52, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Everytime I click your name to get to your talk its redirected correctly, so I see no value in editing old comments. Legacypac (talk) 09:42, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Only if you want to. As Legacypac says the redirects work. -- PBS (talk) 12:33, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

A question for you

see Talk:2014 Iranian-led intervention in Iraq#Requested move December 2014 -- PBS (talk) 12:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Good call, thanks. GregKaye 13:01, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

As it happens I do not think any muppet will be jumping up and down at this move, but as an involved editor you should not have made it. It should have been obvious from my posting that I intended to close it as soon as I though enough time had passed for those who wished to express an opinion on my proposed dab extension had been given time to express an opinion. We have seen contested pre-emptive moves in this area and making one yourself means that in future you will not be able to criticise such move without exposing yourself to accusations of hypocrisy. -- PBS (talk) 10:18, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

PBS The only thing that I have been wanting is to edit articles, as I see it, so that they will be free of POV. I push had been made to close discussion immediately after another editor had raised another option. I didn't agree with the content but that was immaterial. The old quote comes into play, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". I was happy with my actions as a way to give options to either continue the discussion or shut it down at admin's discretion. As an involved editor I made a consensus move in a transparent way on the understanding that further discussion might modify or revoke the move. I do not see that I have been compromised here. GregKaye 19:19, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

MOS:DASH

Hello. Please consider moving the two pages, 'Category:Islamist terrorist incidents, 2000-2009' and 'Category:Islamist terrorist incidents, 2010-2019' to 'Category:Islamist terrorist incidents, 2000–2009' and 'Category:Islamist terrorist incidents, 2010–2019', respectively. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:24, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• Omnipaedista I have no objection to other's making the moves but, while my writing formating of the category wording was not intentional, you are asking the wrong person. I think that substantial content in MOS is utterley unsubstantiated especially in regard to the hyphenation of years. See the thread I started, Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Archive 161#antiquated use of dashes?, for more details. GregKaye 15:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

For the moment this policy is the status quo. You simply choose to arbitrarily ignore it. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:45, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Omnipaedista there is policy on clear issues such as NOR and NPOV that makes coherent sense and there is policy such as in the case of MOS:DASH that, in many cases, seems to me to fly in the face of real world usage. Surely the editors breaking NOR and NPOV are those that continually push for the preservation of the use of dashes in MOS against real world usage. GregKaye 15:58, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

There is a clear distinction between core policy and style guidelines. MOS:DASH is a style guideline, so violating it is not a big matter. I just want to note that as long as a style guideline (part of Misplaced Pages's "house style") is the status quo, not following it is technically a violation of it (see also WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT and WP:CON). --Omnipaedista (talk) 16:03, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Omnipaedista I honestly think that there are better things for editors to do than to spend time chasing after and changing grammatical issues that fly in the opposite direction of real word use. It makes no sense to me. I just don't like things that I personally think make Misplaced Pages look antiquated and silly. I don't object to the use of the dash if that's what people choose to use and am happy to support editors in this choice. GregKaye 16:24, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Style is not just about making articles look pretty. Style has semantic meaning. There are always good reasons behind English Misplaced Pages's guidelines. --Omnipaedista (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Omnipaedista The only difference that I see between "2000-2009" and "2000–2009" is that the first is readily searchable. I don't see that making a change at this stage will be worth the effort. GregKaye 17:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The semantic meaning here is "range value": Dash#Ranges of values. --Omnipaedista (talk) 23:00, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Omnipaedista You have supplied a useful reference to both "En dash range style" and "Hyphen range style". I agree that, the semantic meaning here is "range value" but, as is clearly indicated by trawls of sources, it is a semantic meaning that is most commonly conveyed with the use of hyphens. GregKaye 06:28, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Deleted comment here by Omnipaedista. I tend to give up when editors start quoting Latin.

If you want to continue to argue this point please do so in English. This is an English Misplaced Pages that works in the context of English sources, sources that primarily use hyphens to convey range value. "2000-2009" and "2000–2009" have the same semantic meaning. They are just stylised, as I see it, to trends of different times. GregKaye 07:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

The point of the comment you deleted was this: when editors edit their own website they can use whatever convention they like. When editors edit Misplaced Pages, they are to follow Misplaced Pages's conventions. I have just moved the above-mentioned categories. --Omnipaedista (talk) 07:23, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

@Omnipaedista: GregKaye and I have had our differences (one might say nothing but differences), but I struggle to see why you find this a battle worth fighting. Prominently displayed from the top of the MoS page you linked is the following: This guideline is a part of the English Misplaced Pages's Manual of Style. Use common sense in applying it; it will have occasional exceptions. Greg already provided a reason to ignore this (quite silly) rule, and I suggest that your time would be better served doing absolutely anything else. VQuakr (talk) 07:36, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

VQuakr Thank you

@Omnipaedista: This is also point which can also be fairly applied to newspapers and books. Please do not misrepresent. I was pleased that you previously noted that this issue "is not a big matter". I noted as first thing in my initial reply that "I have no objection to other's making the moves" and yet we have had this long conversation. No substantial change has been made. Everything is as intelligible as it was. GregKaye 07:52, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Opinions at ISIS/ISIL/IS requested move

You need to move your expressed opinion up out of the "Further discussion" section or it may be missed by the closing admin. Most of the comment can stay there (just change "oppose" to "comment") and place a new opinion (presumably oppose) up above in the survey part along with a brief reason for your opposition to the move. -- PBS (talk) 20:17, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

PBS thanks for this again. sorry to have left you with this hassle. GregKaye 20:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Homosexuality

Hi, the editor raising the issue at ANI was the same editor avoiding a block. This is a long-term problem editor from South America who has previously been blocked numerous times for trolling such pages. They are quite aware that their behaviour is an issue and so WP:DENY is the best route here. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 18:47, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

GregKaye, there are some editors so disruptive over a period of time that it is senseless to negotiate with them. Kudos for assuming good faith, but this time it's not going to work. Jehochman 15:50, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Jehochman thanks for the unwarranted Kudos . Not that it matters but I had assumed a mixture of Bad faith and delusion. I support strong action by anyone prepared to soil their hands in dealing with these people but, regardless of this, I think it worth questioning approach. AN/I has a habit of shutting down discussion IMO and I am less than convinced that this is always the best way to proceed. My remarks are more comment than criticism and am pleased that admin Black Kite stepped in to validate the close. GregKaye 16:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

"Islamist"

The main problem with the usage of words such as "Islamist" is that there is a huge misconception in western world that thinks Islam is one monolithic thing, when in reality Islam has may branches and interpretrations. When you place such a suffix as "-ist" it only perpetuates this misunderstanding. 80.43.207.148 (talk) 10:46, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

80.43.207.148 Understood. The alternative is to used lesser used words like "jihadist" which runs into problems in that many people with Mohammedan faiths do not regard extremists as following anything like a doctrinally faithful interpretation of jihad. Its in the name of Islam or in the name of an even more specific Mohammedan doctrine. Personally I would prefer us to use the word extremist or similar. GregKaye 19:16, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

<chuckle>-2015-01-17T10:09:00.000Z">

Do I detect a taste of sour grapes? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)"> ">

Pdfpdf I recognise your name. In what connection? GregKaye 10:11, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Don't worry. If the connection was not immediate and obvious to you, then I have probably "got it wrong".

Best wishes for a happy and prosperous 2015. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:15, 17 January 2015 (UTC) Happy New Year.

Interview for The Signpost

This is being sent to you as a member of WikiProject Discrimination

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Discrimination for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks, Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (jive) @ 20:50, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Move review

There is currently a discussion at WP:MR to which you may be associated with. The thread can be found here. Thanks. Qxukhgiels (talk) 22:27, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Points raised previously

Hello Gregkaye. My apologies for the late reply, I was slightly indisposed. Having looked through the points you had previously raised, I will attempt to address them.

Point 1 - "Circus"

• I will discuss this but it is with great displeasure (not at you but for me). I dismissed the points raised as a circus because the titlechange policy stated that we do not take moral or political right into consideration. In spite of this, editors felt compelled to raise the issue in contrary to the aforementioned policy. Though I understand the reasoning, it was felt unnecessary, at least to me. Now to the politics bit. During the cold war, there was a systematic campaign of information warfare which has been documented extensively. This is not seen so favourably now and is something that the people who were involved, are not so proud about. In the end, what is better always prevails. Even without all that information warfare and propaganda, capitalism was still going to come out triumphant in the end. There was no need to de-legitimise the other party then, and there is no need to concern ourselves with de-legitimising ISIL now. This campaign back then and also now, with various stakeholders taking issue with certain things, is what I called a circus. I thought it was obvious, but alas it has been shown that I should qualify all statements. When the information is presented in accordance to our policy, there is little chance it could legitimise this group.

Point 2 - me raising issue at your mention of life taking killers (I am not sure if I did raise an issue but I will assume I did)

• This is because Misplaced Pages is not a forum on which to discuss the topics at hand. As this is not a forum, it is hardly a problem, if an editor requests that you do not air your views in such a fashion on the article page. You also state your views about the media which respectfully, I must inform you that your views are irrelevant in that regard when it comes to editing an article. We use the words journalists write and you raising your objections about their decision to use the name, frankly is slightly annoying and bordering on a forum discussion. This is why I used the words drivel and empty air. I will refrain from using these words, seen as you do not like them. As they were used without any intent of incivility but rather to clarify reality as seen through the lens of Misplaced Pages policy, could you recommend alternative words that would be acceptable to you.

Point 3 - your comment on ISIL page with stamp: 11:18, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

• I disagree with all the points apart from the aspersion bit. I read the link you posted and I understand what you meant. If aspersions are made, they have to be backed up by evidence which is something I did not do. I apologise for this.

I hope that cleared some of the issues at hand. Regards Mbcap (talk) 23:14, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

• Mbcap
  • Even if we just highlight your text: "If I allow the circus surrounding the issue to affect me, it will impact on my contribution to the article" I would hope that you can see that you are dismissing a great number of notable political figures as clowns and jugglers and the like. Is that really how you dismiss people? Again surrounding is a fairly encompassing qualifier. "I dismissed the points raised as a circus." Please do not do things like this. If you have a point to make then make your point.
  • In your first reply you used the word context three times even though I maintain that I kept things in context. Now, again, you quote my mention of "life taking killers" out of context of my original question: "How the hell did journalists come to the decision to ignore the wishes of the majority of the Muslim world so as to follow the preferences of a a group of liberty and life taking killers?" In future occasion I will know to order words like "life" and "liberty" differently so that you will not consistently pluck selective quotations. If you are talking about forum your attack on editor contributions as drivel and empty air go high on the list. Journalists have made decisions of terminological use and these decisions have ignored the wishes of the majority of the Muslim World so as to follow the preferences of a group of "life and liberty taking killers". Arguments were clearly presented and civil responses are required. Again, to keep conversation in context, you said, "If in the future you find anything I write objectionable, then I would say please do not ascribe to malice that which could be explained by stupidity." This is not good enough. For editors to edit Misplaced Pages they are required to be civil. This is arguably the most basic requirement of Misplaced Pages and one of its WP:FIVEPILLARS. I presented solid content. There is no relevant explanation or excuse for your unjustified, unfairly and derisory dismissal of this content as "drivel and empty air". You now ask me to "recommend alternative words". Forget the words. Present your arguments so as to address the argument at hand. Say why you think the opposing argument is wrong and why yours is right. You might, if relevant, say why you think an argument is presented unfairly if ever appropriate. Your unsubstantiated attacks are unacceptable in any form of words used. Please try to get the point. Attacks are unacceptable. End.
  • My comment with with stamp: 11:18, 19 January 2015 is here. It was pretty much a reply to your continued aspersion. I have tried to broach this issue with you on a personal basis and yet with repeat incidence I have reverted to direct response on the article talk page as other editors might do. I found the thread that you started with what I consider to be its prejudgemental title "Barn door POV pushing in the lead" to have an extremely lengthy content with I high level of arguing against editors rather than the issue. I objected to this type of methodology on your talk page. You edited my edit adding your comments throughout my content and then, for whatever reason and within this context, you then posted a link to the doctored thread on your talk page. Despite this and despite my statement of weak support for the opposing argument I then, in good faith, added comment to highlight the issue of "the placement of the content of the second paragraph." THIS WAS DONE IN GOOD FAITH. You had asserted, "The other reasons it has gone quite in that thread, is because of the clear ownership issues here and the persistent effort to alienate all editors who wish to make this article neutral." Editors may disagree and editors may expect civil behaviour but this should and does not constitute alienation. If context is important to you then please consider placing your replies to content so that they follow the content that you are replying to. It would make responding a lot easier as otherwise unnecessary efforts would not need to be made to return comments to context. GregKaye 16:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I shall agree to disagree as I do not feel you are willing to take any consideration of the points I have raised. My barn door pov lead talk page section was one of the first things I did on wikipedia. The language used may have been inapropriate but that is simply because I did not know how things worked here. As to the barn door nature of the lead, the lead is quite barndoor POV pushing. I can hold that position and other editors have felt the same way before. As to the alienation, I was referring to P123, Documenterror and the editor who edits the justifications section. Mbcap (talk) 16:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Mbcap There is no alienation. There are WP:guidelines that we all need to follow.

I understand but don't fully agree with your assertion about the lead and for this reason I did what I could to keep the discussion that you mentioned open. If any editor here is to address NPOV a starting point might be the presentation in Misplaced Pages's voice of human rights abuses such as the use of women as slaves and the ethnic cleansing and persecution of communities as having "justifications". GregKaye 17:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

GregKaye can't respond to the one of your points, but I will. You are lining up with a topic banned editor, a site blocked editor, and a "ban on sight" sock farm. Can you see where this attitude could lead? Inserting long quotes from terrorists justifying their actions is not cool - quite a few editors are deleting the socks crap while you reinsert it? I asked you nicely to undo your insertion, but you did not, and you argue on. Legacypac (talk) 17:26, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Come on legacypac, this is quite unfair to associate me in such a way. Also what do your edit summaries mean. They always sound like you are trying to deliver a message. I can read your comment on the page, you do not need to write the edit summary the way your do. I re-inserted it, after you deleted it. You have clear ownership issues with that page, who do you think you are closing discussions on the ISIL page. Let that be my evidence for the statement I just made. Those are justifications used by the group and they are documented in reliable sources. As the page is about ISIL, it is entirely appropriate to include that informatino there. Mbcap (talk) 17:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Greg I agree words like drivel and empty air are not appropriate comments. I will henceforth, cease using those words and I apologise for using them. Mbcap (talk) 15:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

You, not me, named three editors who you agree with. I'm just noting their status. Any editor can close any discussion. I explained that to you already. I've only done some minor housekeeping to help save editors time. Legacypac (talk) 17:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

No legacypac, you are simply by my impression, the owner of the ISIL page. You close discussions, censor talk page posts by other IP's, you blank other IP's posts (does not matter if they are socks, their comment stays), you have according to me; complete disregard for building an encyclopedia as shown by your revert of my addition of the ISIL portal link and you label others as cyber terrorist, dirty socks and so on. You are here to simply further your agenda and using this encyclopedia as a political advocacy tool. I will not put up with this. You are extremely disrespectful as shown by your attempted bullying on the ISIl talk page regarding the justifications section. You disparage the work of other editors by calling it nonsense. You delete good revertes such as the one of the Abu Bakr Al-baghdadi page because they, by my impression, do not further your own cause in light of your world view. This is not a soapbox or a political think tank. We are here simply to build an encyclopedia. It is just a shame that I do not know my way around here but hopefully someday I will find a way to do away with your bullying, innapropriate manners and strong arming of other editors. I promise you a day will come when every editor will be made felt welcome on the ISIl page or any other related pages. Mbcap (talk) 17:11, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Well your impression is wrong. You make sweeping assertions, but where are your diffs? I rarely close discussions and only when the close is obvious. I'm fully entitled to do that. It is common to remove all comments by sockpuppets, part of cleanup. A "new" IP showing up to argue the point of a sock banned an hour before is perfectly fine to delete or strike. If we let that stuff stay it just emboldens them to do more damage. There is even a tool to automatically rollback ALL edits by such users. The Cyber-terrorist point is recycled from an ANi's where it was dismissed as nonsense. I'm not bullying you, I asked you to explain the insertion of copyvio off topic material that you said was fine. Now stop your threats and casting of aspirations please. Legacypac (talk) 17:23, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I have asked an admin to advise me on how to deal with yourself Legacypac. I have tried extremely hard to be civil with you but you are the most unprofessional long standing editor I have ever met on here. Something needs to be done about your clear political advocacy here which is becoming extremely disruptive and is not in line with the encyclopedias long term goals and ambitions. I find it extremely hard to edit here because of your use of the talk pages as a forum and your constant attempts to undermine me on every occasion. You are joined in this task, by what I suspect (this is just my suspicion) is an army of IP's who label me as a duck and harass me as evident from past posts. You are also joined, as is my impression, by your greatest enabler, Gregkaye who allows you to reign supreme on the page. You two constantly support each other, air the same views and treat the talk page as your own discussion forum. This section on this page and also the one on my page, shows how you two constantly tag team me. This is just a guess, but I also find your revert of the ISIL portal link not so long ago, an attempt to lure me into breaking the 1RR so you could report me. That was a wrong edit on your part anyway. Could you please undu yourself. You also use your edit summaries in a way that is not conducive to cordial collaboration between editors. Mbcap (talk) 17:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Please carefully read this information:

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