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Theobald Tiger

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Theobald Tiger

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Tgeairn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Theobald Tiger (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark_Worldwide#Discretionary_sanctions_.28January_2015.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 30 January 2015 Personal attack in edit summary, mass revert without discussion
2. 30 January 2015 Mass revert, disregarding active talk page discussions (multiple reverts to article)
3. 30 January 2015 Personal attacks
4. 30 January 2015 Mass revert of multiple edits, disregarding active talk page discussions (multiple reverts to article)
5. 29 January 2015 BLP violations on article talk page
6. 29 January 2015 personal attack
7. 29 January 2015 revert without regard for talk page discussions (multiple reverts to article)
8. 29 January 2015 revert without regard for talk page discussions (multiple reverts to article)
9. 4 February 2015 personal attacks, including "You know nothing of NRMs and cults, you do not even know what primary sources really are, your objections to encyclopedic content are based upon prejudice and self-interest. Your means are wikilawyering, taking the moral high ground, lying, insinuating and denying the obvious."
10. 4 February 2015 another accusation of COI
11. 4 February 2015 personal attacks, accusation of "bullying"
12. 5 February 2015 accusations of deception, COI, smearing, etc, immediately after being warned to comment on content not contributors (and with a link to WP:NPA).
13. 8 February 2015 Bulk insert of unsourced material into a BLP, removal of sourced material
14. 9 February 2015 revert without regard for talk page discussion, edit warring, inclusion of unsourced material in a BLP
15. 9 February 2015 edit warring, inclusion of unsourced material in a BLP, removal of sourced content
16. 9 February 2015 edit warring on BLP

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 23 January 2015.
• Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 9 January 2015.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This editor was significantly involved with the Landmark Worldwide topic on nl-wiki. There was some kind of block put in place (block log), and I am unclear what the circumstance of that is. It appears that the nl-wiki block has been lifted. Upon arrival here, the editor displayed in-depth experience with the Landmark subject, and appears to have a strong POV (evidenced in the diffs above).

@Astynax: 1) Yes, I am aware of DS. That is why I came here to ask for enforcement of DS. 2) I don't see anything at the ANI link you provided that makes any sense of what you are saying. I made a single comment in that discussion, effectively asking that editors stop fighting over POV. Obviously that did not happen. 3) Multiple reverts to the article are not justified when there is dispute and discussion underway. There was no consensus for the material and yet it was reinserted into the article multiple times. 4) I'm not sure if you are saying that I have been intransigently unilaterally reverting, blanking, hectoring, or entangling. If you are, please stop and use the appropriate mechanisms (such as an enforcement request) to report such behaviour. I obviously disagree and I welcome any and all examination of my editing. Tgeairn (talk) 20:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

As three different editors have all responded to the mention above of blocks on nl-wiki and the linking to the relevant block log, it was and is my understanding that the proper form for filing a request here includes linking previous actions taken. As these actions were not on en, but were recent (the most recent three blocks were within the last six months, the prior blocks are much older) I listed them as an additional comment rather than as a recent or current sanction. I also requested and received a review of the form of my filing from a clerk, who said it was correct form. If including the log from .nl was incorrect, I request that a clerk strike my relevant comment(s) or alert me. Tgeairn (talk) 23:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I am somewhat surprised that the unfounded accusations and occasional outright attacks continue. It seems unlikely that I need to address all of the uninvolved parties accusations, but I will attempt to do so.

• Theobald Tiger's statement simply demonstrates their behaviour and contains little that is factual.

• 1. Despite repeated accusations, at no time has the matter been taken to COIN, and Arbcom did not include such a finding in any proposal after reviewing the presented evidence.

The nomination of Margit Warburg for deletion is one of dozens of similar articles nominated over that past months, the majority of which have been determined to be non-notable and closed as deletes. I was not even aware that Astynax had created the article until TW showed who the notification was sent to.

I have explained my deletions and removals extensively at the Arbcom case, and the committee had no findings regarding any of the evidence presented there. That it is still being cast as somehow negative is an issue, but it is not my issue.

None of what TT wrote in his item #1 addresses that he reverted my edit to List of new religious movement and cult researchers with the edit summary of "Tgeairn is simply not knowledgeable enough to blank this kind of information - moreover it is a form of POV pushing." The revert was uncalled for (and exactly what Arbcom has asked us to stop doing on these articles), but the edit summary contains at least two attacks and is unaddressed by TT's statement.

• 2. I reverted the re-addition of a very large (over 50% of the readable copy of the article) block of text. The copy in question was BOLDly added by Astynax, then it was removed. TT reverted the removal rather than discuss (again, one of the things Arbcom specifically warned not to do), and by that time there were multiple discussions open on the talk page and at RSN. TT's edit summary is not relevant, as there was no consensus for adding the material in the first place.

Regarding consensus for this material, the entire block of text was added as an apparent end-run around a RfM that closed as no consensus and then editors began merging Erhard and WE&A material here anyway.

• 3. TT may not think so, but I view telling me that I have not read a source (that I quote extensively and provide links to in that thread and elsewhere) and that I "have not the faintest idea of what primary source actually means" to be a personal attack.
• 4. In this case, TT reverted hours of work where I made single edits clearly describing the reasoning for each edit. TT reverted my work saying "no consensus", when in fact the talk pages clearly demonstrate that there is no consensus for having the material there to begin with.
• 5. BLP applies, even on talk pages. Making unsourced statements is an issue, and I raised it. By itself, it's probably not a sanctionable offense. As a part of a pattern of behaviour, it is relevant.
• 6. Again, "It is crystal clear that Tgeairn has not read the Lockwood article" is an attack at this point.
• 7. TT's own edit summary is clear that editors at the talk page do not support the inclusion of the material TT is reverting into the article.
• 8. TT's own edit summary is clear that there is a dispute over this material on the talk page, and TT is reverting it into the article anyway.

• Legacypac's statement is misleading in two out of three points.

• 1. The edit history of the article clearly shows actual edit summaries and incremental improvement of the article and its sourcing. Each edit was researched and performed deliberately.
• 2. Legacypac filed that SPI, and at this point it has not been reviewed. Legacypac's own statement indicates that they filed the SPI due to their opinion of conduct on the LW article, which is a rather odd reason to file an SPI unless the intent is to chill participation.
• 3. Further review of the discussion linked by Astynax and the discussion linked from there indicate that TT's block at nl-wiki is unrelated to the Landmark article there. That discussion did not address the multiple blocks for personal attacks at nl-wiki. As explained above, I linked the nl-wiki block log because I thought (and still do) that the filing required notice of previous actions.

• Cathar66's statement is difficult to address, and will likely be the foundation of a follow-up enforcement request on this board. It contains a number of attacks, unfounded assertions, and strays away from either my or TT's behaviour fairly extensively. I expect that reviewing admins will see that there's a string of misinformation there. Seriously, I'm somehow "caught" because I used the expand citations tool weeks after an IP added an incomplete citation?

The failed outing attempt certainly doesn't help Cathar's credibility either.

Thank you to the admins and arbs for your attention. --Tgeairn (talk) 05:14, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Retrieved from archive --Tgeairn (talk) 03:54, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: Preventing archive. Tgeairn (talk) 16:34, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: When making your final determination, you may want to take into account Theobald Tiger's recent block revert of disputed material about Werner Erhard into the Landmark Worldwide article, less than 48 hours after taking a seven day self-imposed break from the Erhard BIO article to avoid a 3RR block. No edit summary given, and "It is increasingly clear that you are mistaken" left on talk page. --Tgeairn (talk) 18:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• 31 January 2015

Discussion concerning Theobald Tiger

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Theobald Tiger

I will comment briefly on the difflinks provided by Tgeairn:

• Ad 1. Tgeairn is, in my view, a contributor with a clear COI who tries to keep Landmark Worldwide free from encyclopedic content by all possible means. Tgeairn is sometimes reasonable, mostly frankly unreasonable, often intimidating, always taking the moral high ground. Tgeairn has also violated WP:Point by nominating Margit Warburg for deletion, an article started by Astynax with whom he happens to have an argument on Talk:Landmark Worldwide, and by deleting whatever he/she comes across that has something to do with the sociology of (alternative pseudo-)religious movements (like Landmark). Therefore I reverted his blanking with an edit summary that seems to me appropriate.
• Ad 2. The discussion on the talk page did by no means support the blanking of the new history paragraph. Therefore I reverted Tgeairn's blanking, with an edit summary that seems to me appropriate.
• Ad 3. This is no personal attack at all. My conclusions might have been unpleasant to Tgeairn, but they seem to me well-founded and even inescapable.
• Ad 4. See Ad 2.
• Ad 5. This allegation of a violation of WP:BLP seems to me not only far-fetched but wrong. Tgeairn had objected to some article text on the topic of Werner Erhard's lack of education. I replied by saying that such information is to be expected in cases like this, because (as I said) "Erhard is in large part an autodidact and a dreamer". This remark does, as far as I can see, no harm to Erhard's reputation. Moreover, it is well-founded (autodidact, Erhard is frequently called a 'visionary', having had a decisive 'vision' on the Golden Gate Bridge), and it was a remark on the talk page, not in the article.
• Ad 6. I recommend to read the complete Reliable Sources Request. This request, done by Tgeairn, is plainly absurd. I have answered it to my abilities.
• Ad 7. Revert of unmotivated blanking with an edit summary that seems to me appropriate.
• Ad 8. See Ad 7.

A topic ban for Tgeairn seems to me indicated. My blocklog on nl.wiki has absolutely nothing to do with Landmark as two admins on nl.wiki (Josq & CaAl) and a Dutch speaking admin on en.wiki (Drmies) have attested. I wish the Arbitration Committee wisdom and understanding when investigating the case and passing judgment on our actions. Theobald Tiger (talk) 22:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

PS Tgeairn pulls an angelic face confronted with criticism of having mentioned my blocklog on nl.wiki, but the way he/she did it - "There was some kind of block put in place (block log), and I am unclear what the circumstance of that is" - is outright insinuating, offensive and malicious. Theobald Tiger (talk) 11:19, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The evidence for a conflict of interest on the part of Tgeairn is overwhelming, both onwiki and offwiki. Asked if there is a COI, Tgeairn's has persistently answered in an evasive manner. Theobald Tiger (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

The treatments I have received since I have done some contributions to the Landmark related articles is really unbelievable. As the uncivilised idiot I happen to be, I prefer to be banned indefinitely from this miserable project. Theobald Tiger (talk) 22:00, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Astynax

Tgeairn was also explicitly made aware of discretionary sanctions and hopefully admins will take his own activity into account. Tgeairn is almost certainly aware (as he commented here, where it was a notable part of the discussion) that the calumny recently raised at ARCA regarding Theobald Tiger's participation on nl.wikipedia has no more merit or relevance here than it did a week ago. Nor were Theobald Tiger's reverts unjustified, as they merely restored massive and incremental blanking reverts of referenced material. Tgeairn himself participated in the blanking of this material. Arbcom invited new eyes to the article, yet those who have arrived (Manul, Cathar66, Legacypac, IronGargoyle, in addition to Theobald Tiger) have been subjected to the same intransigent reversion/blanking and talk page hectoring (including unilateral reversion, citing an invalid rationale, of a Move survey by a non-involved editor) behavior by Landmark advocates which I attempted to describe in the original arbcom case. This is also not the first attempt to entangle fresh eyes who have come to the article in WP:DR processes, which is itself very off-putting. • Astynax 19:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

• Regarding Dave Apter's assertions: As was pointed out on the article's talk, there were no BLP violations (material accurately reflected the references, it was noted in the text that tax fraud charges were eventually dropped, and the text intimated nothing illegal regarding the "Hunger Project" fiasco). Even were one to suspect such BLP violations, that would have not in any case justified the summary blanking by MLKLewis of an entire section of fully-cited material or the similar incremental blanking by Tgeairn. Nor is complaining about the length of a History section by Dave Apter as WP:UNDUE a valid reason for blanking, most especially in an article where other sections have yet to be fleshed out. Admins will also note that Dave Apter has a self-declared CoI with regard to this topic, even though he disputes and has been warned about this by admins and others repeatedly. The accusation of tag-teaming is ridiculous; as far as I know, there has been absolutely no coordination among editors Dave Apter has accused of tag-teaming. • Astynax 19:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Legacypac

1. BOOMARANG this - the edit history on Landmark Worldwide shows the tactics clearly of systematically deleting material. 2. The Editor who filed this unfounded complaint is the subject of an active Sockpuppet investigation over conduct on this article. Let's see where that goes before taking this too seriously. 3. It was well established that th nl-wiki block was nothing to do with this issue. Legacypac (talk) 21:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

What DaveApter calls disingenuous and Tgeairn calls a bad faith attack while disparaging my edit history is actually a legitimate use of SPI to find out which editor is hiding behind an IP to edit war on the article. I filed the SPI before this Request for Enforcement was filed and I signed the SPI so I'm hardly hiding my actions. User:Tgeairn is even asking for sanctions against me for filing the SPI while not even denying he used an IP to edit war. Sanctions are needed here, but against Tgeairn. Legacypac (talk) 08:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by DaveApter

It seems disingenuous for Legacypac to point out that Tgeairn is the subject of "an active sockpuppet investigation" without making it clear that he himself was the editor who requested that investigation. I can't help wondering what prompted it, as the reasons seem no more than conjecture. Rather than attempting to introduce distractions to this Enforcement Request by making counter-accusations, perhaps a specific request, with evidence, should be made here if Legacypac thinks this is called for.

I should have hoped that the conclusion of the recent Arbcom Case with no findings or sanctions passed against Tgeairn would have put an end to the continued accusations being levelled against him, but if anything the intensity of the attacks has increased. DaveApter (talk) 17:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Further responses to comments by Cathar66

The comments from Cathar66 below seem to be the latest attempt to draw attention away from the substantive points of this request by casting aspersions on the messenger.

Cathar66's principal contribution to the Landmark article has been to re-introduce the majority of a highly contentious mass edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=645233779&oldid=645085794

• This sequence started with the replacement of the 'History' section of the article with an overblown bulk edit by Astynax on 29th January which was about as big as the whole of the rest of the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=644672518&oldid=644672217

• This was (quite rightly IMHO) reverted by MLKLewis on the grounds that it violated BLP by accusing a living person of tax fraud and of embezzling charitable funds, without adequate evidence. There are also other grounds for objecting to the material – including the fact that it is undue weight, and that it is largely irrelevant to the subject of the article, dealing mostly with events long before the corporation was formed.
• Without engaging with discussions on the talk page, a tag-team edit war was undertaken to keep this material in:
• Theobald Tiger on 30th Jan https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=644768203&oldid=644741559
• and again https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=644824862&oldid=644819594
• Astynax later on 30th Jan https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=644878221&oldid=644877732
• IronGargoyle on 30th Jan https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=644880836&oldid=644880331
• Legacypac on 30th Jan https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Landmark_Worldwide&diff=644884569&oldid=644882151
• and culminating with the partial re-insertion by Cathar66 above.

I have also followed the links alleging 'forum shopping' and cannot find anything contentious, nor any “less than truthful comments” by Tgeairn, or even any mention of Cathar66.

The combined effect of all these attacks is beginning to look like a classic instance of a WP:POV railroad intended to undermine the credibility of Tgeairn rather than to address the merits of his arguments. DaveApter (talk) 18:41, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Reply to Astyanx

1. Once again the unjustified accusation that I have a COI on this topic is dragged out as a red herring to distract from the issues. Let's stick to considering the evidence that has been presented here. For anyone who cares, I specifically requested that the Arbitrators give a ruling on my alleged Conflict of Interest (as did John Carter, rather more persistently and aggressively), and their comment was “I did not include Apter in proposed sanctions because I didn't think the evidence presented warranted it.” This should be the end of the matter unless anyone can present some compelling evidence.
2. My reference to 'tag-team' was not intended to imply active collusion (about which I could not possibly know), but merely the fact of six block-reversions of the same contentious material in a single day by a group of like-minded editors operating in turn, without significantly engaging in talk page discussions.
3. This page is not the place for discussions of the merits or otherwise of Astynax's material; the issue here is editor behaviour. DaveApter (talk) 10:07, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Short Brigade Harvester Boris

As someone who has never edit the article, and frankly has little interest in the topic, a look at this filing and the article talk page shows dubious behavior all around. (Note that some of the diffs entered by the plaintiff are very borderline, including the so-called "personal attacks.") I conclude that the only way we're going to get a neutral, well-written article is if new editors come in. For that to happen will require admins to knock a few heads together put the current warriors on a very short leash enforced by liberal use of blocks and/or topic bans. Without this few neutral, outside editors will want to dance into the minefield. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:15, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cathar66

I visited the Landmark article for the first time on 18 January 2015. Having read the article I edited out 2 pieces within which were not reliable sourced. Tgeairn wrote a note on my talk page wondering why I thought that the Irish Daily Mail and Mayfair (magazine) are not RS.( an unusual question from an editor I now know to have made over 40k edits) I replied that a tabloid newspaper and a soft porn mag are definitely not RS. I understand Theobald Tiger's frustration as this editor purports elsewhere to be an expert on RS. This actually made me interested in Landmark and I the read the talk page reread the article and did a sourced (NYT} 3 word edit which caused a furore on the talk page - I let the other editors get on with it while I familiarised myself more with the subject. I am not afraid of editing but the hostility on the talk page was unreal. How are new editors supposed to get involved with the talk page behaviour of Tgeairn. The wrong editor is before this ANI People in glass houses should not throw stones.

I have looked at the difs cited in the complaint. I agree with Short Brigade Harvester Boris that the behaviour is borderline in some of the edits but justified by Theobald Tiger in others.

I would also like to comment about forum shopping by Tgeairn who has commented less than truthfully directly and indirectly on me at AN, JzG and also at Drmies and hope that my replies on the first and last of those pages are educational for him .Cathar66 (talk) 22:10, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

• Regarding Dave Apter's assertions

Your selected difs are mischievous. The first dif you used was totally justified because of Tgeairn removal of content which was reliably sourced. Tgeairn then reverted it without sufficient reason Theobald Tiger correctly reverted this with an explicit explanation.The next interjection was by a now banned IP who blanked the section noting (Remove slanderous accusations). Instead of reverting this as any reasonable editor would do he edited other sections removing a sourced reference then removed another source with a misleading edit summary and others until ashyntax reverted to the last stable version before the ip reversion which the banned ip 173.161.39.97 then reverted using a bs reason (Removing these attacks. Stop placing untrue stories here.) IronGargoyle correctly reverted this vandalism. The banned ip reverted again for another bs reason and Legacypac correctly reverted this. I read the section that was being edit warred and tried to put it in more NPOV language. Tgeairn ridiculed this on the talk page obviously not understanding my intent despite the edit summaries stating starting abbreviated text - more neutrally worded. The IP as a sock puppet or one of a banned editor I don't know. I do know that another ip 23.25.38.121 may be a sock puppet for Tgeairn as the language used in an anally retentive style is similar to Tgeairn. This ,and other edits by this IP, I will raise this at sock puppet investigations (as soon as I figure out how). (The Irish Mail on Sunday article is only referenced online in Wiki sourced sites and Landmark related PR sites. The Irish daily Mail is not available online as it is a regional version of the UK Daily Mail. (more info) It was originally added to the page by the same US based Comcast IP at 12 July 2012 so this IP is connected to Landmark internal sources. At 23:04, 21 August 2012 Citation bot fixed the citation on this reference with the reference Misc citation tidying. | Tgeairn when this section and others was deleted DaveApter restored it on 10 September 2012 when this was then deleted Tgeairn restored it.

Finally I'm rusty and not particularly familiar with BOOMERANG and believe a topic ban for this and all NRM articles is appropriate for Tgeairn. Like the Spanish Inquisition in Monty Python I have yet one more comment (maybe two) to add Dave Apter your COI is obvious and the “I did not include Apter in proposed sanctions because I didn't think the evidence presented warranted it.” reflects on the quality of the evidence presented and not on your COI behavior. I will review the evidence and eventually present sufficient cause for an enforcement. It's Friday oops Tuesday night / Wednesday morning and I've enjoyed my hot whiskeys but not enjoyed having to do this. Goodnight Cathar66 (talk) 01:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Apologies Tgeairn, for the content that was removed, but as you appear to be the expert on reliable sources why would you fix an unlinked citation from a newspaper that has a tiny circulation in Ireland and is not available online and only available online through Landmark PR? I find that odd.Cathar66 (talk) 05:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Theobald Tiger

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• I haven't had a chance to have a look through the evidence here yet, just commenting to prevent archiving for now. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:15, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
• Alright, having looked at the evidence submitted against Theobald Tiger I believe that there is evidence on wrong doing, specifically incivility and personal attacks (1st sentence, , , "It is crystal clear...", ), edit warring to make a point (), and edit warring generally , , , ). I'm considering whether to go with a final warning or a three month topic ban, though I have to say that this edit is pushing me towards a TBAN. If editors believe that there is enough evidence to sustain an AE request regarding Tgeairn could you please submit a separate request, given the size of this request and the amount which has been submitted it's difficult to determine whether action needs to be taken. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:54, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • It looks to me like they seriously need to watch their tone in discussions, but there's no evidence of disruption in the mainspace. A topic ban seems a bit an over-reaction to say this is the first enforcement request that has been brought against them. A final warning would suffice in my opinion, and if the disruption continues there can be no arguing that they were unaware of the standards of conduct and a topic ban would be perfectly reasonable. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Fine with me, I'll close it in 24 hours or so if there are no other concerns raised. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 23:45, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Gouncbeatduke

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by MarieWarren

Steeletrap

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Steeletrap

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Atsme (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Steeletrap (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Footnoted quotes#May 2014 (BLP discretionary sanctions)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. February 8, 2015 Reverted wording and changed the meaning of the phrase
2. February 8, 2015 Defied the RfC closing of admin Nyttend after he pointed out the fundamental noncompliance of NPOV, and she adding back the term conspiracy theory
3. February 8, 2015 Went even further in noncompliance of NPOV by adding more contentious material to the BLP
4. February 8, 2015 Went into the body of the article and reverted the wording to change the meaning of the phrase
5. February 8, 2015 Reverted another editor's correction of BLP violations and again brought back the noncompliant contentious material

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

2. Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Footnoted quotes#May 2014 (BLP discretionary sanctions) If I read the information properly, Steeletrap just completed a 3 week TB, and went right back to editing with no regard for DS, the recent RfC results, or policy compliance.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is my first AE, and I apologize in advance for any technical errors I may have made completing this form.

• added information re: Steeletrap's behavior since return;

• Specifico's claims against me for edit warring are false but expected. He is quite defensive of Steeletrap as evidenced at ongoing SPI . A close review of the diffs at the 3RR initiated by Jytdog will confirm. My edits were measured to comply with NPOV, some were clean-ups of my own prose, citations, and redundancies as demonstrated in diffs below. When done, I removed the NPOV template because I felt the NPOV problems were resolved with my edits. What we're seeing now is, as one editor put it, "a collection of attackers." They do not want the Griffin BLP to be expanded, and insist on stating the contentious material in Wiki voice despite policy that is contrary.

• Jytdog is not acting in GF. He has been WP:SQS since December 10, 2014 as the article TP will show. He is also WP:Forumshopping at AN, When he didn't get a response, he added more sections and questions ad nauseam.

• Nyttend clearly explained to Jytdog on his TP - the strong point of the "no" was its clear point that "conspiracy theorist", as generally used in contemporary English, is a fundamentally non-neutral way of describing someone. If it's not neutral to call the guy a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence, it's likewise not neutral to call his ideas conspiracy theories. Let me be clear: the core policy is neutrality, and your words make me think that you're attempting to wikilawyer in order to undermine that core policy and make him look bad.
• Diff and edit summary shows what I did to bring policy compliance: (Expand lead, modify for compliance with NPOV per RfC close, include inline text attribution to contentious material per BLP policy)
• Jytdog reverted me with a faux summary, I reverted Jytdog once
• Steeletrap reverted me with a faux summary
• I have participated in discussions on the TP for two months, made proposals before and after my edits - all of my edits were reverted and criticized by Jytdog and team exercising bad faith;

1. <-- Proposal
2. <--Proposal
3. <--Explained expansion and NPOV corrections
4. <--Summary of Jytdog's disruptive behavior

• Arthur Rubin reverted my edit that removed NPOV tag saying, "not a chance; the lead is now much too long, but still severely biased." - showing total disregard for the RfC and closer. Atsme☯ 05:39, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

After reading Arthur Rubin's statements below, it should be rather evident that the goal in attacking me is to divert attention away from the disruptive editing of Steeletrap and those who have demonstrated quite clearly their primary purpose is to maintain Griffin's BLP as a WP:Attack page or WP:Coatrack. How many times must an editor be brought under DS before their actions are taken seriously? Atsme☯ 20:30, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

• Add-on to clarify that my edits conformed to WP:PROFRINGE, WP:BLP#Balance per my interpretation of policy. Steeletrap and other editors who have included or support fundamentally noncompliant contentious statements in order to maintain SQ are doing so by making blanket statements in Wiki voice sourced by partisan and questionable sources cited without inline text attribution. I make note of this because it is a behavioral issue - they have been advised - therefore it appears to be purposeful tendentious editing and dismissal of policy. I invited collaboration and discussion for improvement, but full reverts without any discussion are what resulted in defiance of policy. In an effort to dispel the notion and spurious claims made against me by Steeletrap and the collection of editors who are attacking me now, please read the following passages that I either added, or left as is in the article when making my edits :
• In March 2011, he was interviewed on Fox News by Glenn Beck who recommended Griffin's book The Creature from Jekyll Island calling it a "fascinating read." Sean Easter of Media Matters For America wrote a critical review of that interview stating, "Griffin has an extensive history of promoting wild conspiracy theories.<---lead
• ...but subsequently banned in the US as it is scientifically unsupported and not approved by the FDA. Griffin includes a disclaimer in his book that states "This story is not approved by orthodox medicine. The FDA, the AMA, and The American Cancer Society have labeled it fraud and quackery.<---lead
• Edward Flaherty, an academic economist writing for Political Research Associates, characterized Griffin's description of the secret meeting on Jekyll Island as "conspiratorial", "amateurish", and "suspect". Griffin's response was "here is nothing about my work that merits being classified as a conspiracy theory...." and "until specifics are brought to my attention, I stand on everything I have written."<---I actually did not write this passage. It was already there so I left it as is.
• Since the 1970s, the use of laetrile to treat cancer has been described in scientific literature as a canonical example of quackery and has not been shown to be effective in the treatment or prevention of cancer. Emanuel Landau, then a Project Director for the APHA, wrote a book review for the American Journal of Public Health, which noted that Griffin "accepts the 'conspiracy' theory ... that policy-makers in the medical, pharmaceutical, research and fund-raising organizations deliberately or unconsciously strive not to prevent or cure cancer in order to perpetuate their functions". Landau concludes that although World Without Cancer "is an emotional plea for the unrestricted use of the Laetrile as an anti-tumor agent, the scientific evidence to justify such a policy does not appear within it".<---passage was already there.
• I have not been able to further expand or improve the article because of the disruptions to maintain SQ. It appears Griffin is being viewed more as a pseudoscience issue than as the BLP of an author who writes books about controversial topics, and who also includes disclaimers in his books as I noted above.

Atsme☯ 16:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

• Update Feb 12th: I just realized there is a connection (though not direct, rather an association) between G. Edward Griffin and the Mises Institute who endorses Griffin, and the Tea Party Movement involving Ron Paul, G. Edward Griffin, Lew Rockwall, and the John Birch Society. I'm not sure how DS, TB, and AE work, but I also found the following:
• Editing restrictions Misplaced Pages:Editing_restrictions#blpenforce wherein users Arthur Rubin, Specifico and Steeletrap are listed: (excerpt) Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs) is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to the Tea Party movement, broadly construed. and Steeletrap is topic-banned from editing articles and other pages relating to the Austrian school of economics, the Ludwig von Mises Institute, or persons associated with them, either living or deceased. and SPECIFICO is topic-banned from editing articles and other pages relating to the Ludwig von Mises Institute or persons associated with it, either living or deceased. This topic-ban does not extend to articles concerning Austrian economics but not related to the Ludwig von Mises Institute; however, should SPECIFICO edit problematically in the broader area, the topic-ban may be broadened if necessary through the discretionary sanctions. It may explain their tendentious edits, and why they support UNDUE contentious material in Griffin's BLP.
• See the section header: Why Griffin Is Basically Correct.
• section header Don't Take My Word For It,
• , which connects Lew Rockwell, Griffin, and Austrian School proponents. Is G. Edward Griffin's body of literary works not a related extension?
• With regards to Arthur Rubin's comments about UNDUE and wanting more contentious material added to Griffin's BLP see: . Arthur Rubin has had sanctions imposed involving the Tea Party Movement - Griffin is connected there as well. At the very least it explains what may be happening with regards to the insistence of those editors to add defamatory content to Griffin's BLP. Atsme☯ 20:30, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
• Guy's (JzG) comment is disappointing. He has failed to maintain a NPOV dating back to December when this BLP was first listed at the fringe theories noticeboard:
• - "I guess this is my area of particular interest, as a skeptic looking at cancer quackery in particular,"
• - edited through Callanecc's PP and has been the most aggressive in attacking Griffin
• - added a wing nut drivel template, which surprises me how that alone didn't get him TB.
• - off wiki site linked from his TP - WOO-BUSTERS.
• , - considering the National Institute of Health recognizes CAM and alternative medicine, I don't understand why WP is allowing editors to include defamatory passages in wiki voice in a BLP. I am not a defender/promoter of either, rather I am simply a writer trying to keep my hands clean by following policy and steering clear of statements of fact and improperly sourced contentious statements that trigger defamation lawsuits. 30+ yrs as a publisher/writer/producer gives one insight to such matters, particularly after having been there-done that in such matters in real life on more than one occasion. Atsme☯ 01:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

1. Notified by another editor of edit violations at article TP
2. Warned of the violations and my report to Callanecc who has been overseeing Griffin
3. Callanecc asked me to make a report of this at AE which I am doing now.
4. Steeletrap's response to Callanecc - the user has been notified.
5. Notice of this AE

Discussion concerning Steeletrap

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Steeletrap

I was not edit warring. The Griffin article has nothing to do with my topic ban. Hence in the last AE sanctions case against me--the successful one--no one raised the issue of my editing the Griffin page. Steeletrap (talk) 21:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC) The diffs cited of Jytdog admonishing me are out of context. Jytdog supported my edit that OP is objecting to here. He opposed an edit of mine which added new content. My edit was reverted and I did not re-add it. Steeletrap (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Note that my single edit to the Griffin page--which I have not tried to restore, and whose reversion I accepted (via the Griffin talk page) prior to the commencement of this action--did not refer to him as a CT. It merely referred to him as a promoter of alternative medicine and fringe science. The man believes HIV does not cause AIDS, and that laetrile cure cancer, so my characterization is hardly non-NPOC. Still, I have accepted its reversion. Steeletrap (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by SPECIFICO

Atsme has unclean hands in this matter. . SPECIFICO talk 16:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Jytdog

Suggest boomerang. Please see 3RR thread I had opened with regard to Atsme prior to this AE being opened, here. Please also note Atsme's response in that board action. Jytdog (talk) 21:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

While Steeletrap did edit aggressively, Steeletrap later (in the midst of Atsme's edit warring described in my 3RR post above) posted on my Talk page acknowledging that she should have shown more restraint: see User_talk:Jytdog#In_retrospect.... That was after I had urged her to stop editing the article and seek consensus first, here: Talk:G._Edward_Griffin#Edits_today. I have seen no such insight from Atsme. Jytdog (talk) 21:49, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Note, if reviewing arbitrators want a separate thread on this, or for me to condense the evidence presented in the 3RR thread and present it here, or something else, please let me know.Jytdog (talk) 13:15, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

We already have Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#Requesting_review_of_close_of_RfC_at_Griffin_article where the issues have been discussed at length. That regards an RfC whose close is likely to be upheld which found calling a person a "conspiracy theorist" in Misplaced Pages's voice was improper.

The current issue is whether, presuming that the RfC closer's conclusions were proper, whether "advocate of alternative medicine and fringe science" in Misplaced Pages's voice falls under the same WP:BLP stricture as "conspiracy theorist" does when made in Misplaced Pages's voice.

It may be that this is a content dispute, but where an administrator Nyttend (who appears to be an experienced editor and administrator) has apparently ruled that it is a matter of WP:BLP requirement, then it is unlikely that ArbCom is likely to overturn it when the close was upheld at WP:AN. And in that case the issue should be whether the onus falls on the first to undo such an action and not on the successive edits.

Callanecc's solution is good - but does not address that initial reversal of an admin's edit apparently made on BLP grounds. . Proposal's for "boomerang" or the like are, IMO, ill-judged. Collect (talk) 22:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

The close was:

Closing as "no". The opposers demonstrate quite well that this is a derogatory characterisation of the guy, a fundamental non-compliance with maintaining a neutral point of view. Of course, something cited to Griffin's own works, wherein Griffin specifically calls himself a conspiracy theorist, is a valid source for saying "self-described conspiracy theorist". Nyttend (talk) 13:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Which quite appears to indicate the closer viewed the term "conspiracy theorist" to be intrinsically "derogatory" and violative of NPOV - and the requirement for "self-identification" appears to draw directly onWP:BLP)

Statement by Pekay2

Stay on point. This is not about Atsme, but rather Steeltrap. It's bizarre that this team is supporting Steeltrap knowing that she made edits that the closer said are "a derogatory characterization of the guy, a fundamental non-compliance with maintaining a neutral point of view." --Pekay2 (talk) 22:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Arthur Rubin

It is quite proper to discuss Atsme's edit warring to include positive controversial unsourced statements about Griffin. That the close covered negative (actually sourced, but for the purpose of argument, call them unsourced) statements about Griffin doesn't make Steeletrap's (I'll come back to correct spelling later, have to meet my wife at a shopping center) addition of inadequately sourced statements about Griffin's views an improper edit; to the extent he/she was edit-warring, he was also cancelling BLP violations by Atsme. I'll check the detailed edits, later. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Although my comment is absolutely correct, it is irrelevant to this discussion. Steeletrap now understands what he has done that is wrong, and is unlikely to do it again. Atsme, on the other hand....even if Atsme is correct as to the meaning of Nyttend's close, and the close is consistent with Misplaced Pages policies, Atsme's his edits still adds WP:BLP violations by adding controversial self-sourced positive statements about Griffin, unchecked by the controversial, sourced, negative statements which Nyttend would not allow. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:25, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kingofaces43

I've been watching this article from afar (relatively uninvolved aside from an RfC comment), but I was surprised to see this posting. I don't see any obvious egregious sanction violations by Steeletrap presented here. They definitely came into the article hot, but scaled back pretty quickly when the edit warring was brought to their attention and they were asked to slow down. The fact that they stopped the problem behavior pretty quickly would seem to indicate any action for Steeletrap isn’t going to actually help anything at this point in time.

However, this posting seems to be retaliatory in nature, so it does seem like a boomerang would be in order. Atsme has had a tendency to lash out at editors in disagreement as part of a battleground behavior multiple editors have warned her about, accuse others of stonewalling because her ideas are not getting traction in consensus, etc. . Trying to help out Atsme with her own behavior issues has just resulted in strange retaliatory warnings considering those warnings given to her test edits or improper because she's a "regular". Basically not wanting to hear about her own behavior problems, but turning around and making those same accusations of other editors. Seems very much like a WP:THETRUTH attitude the article has been suffering with for awhile. Statements above by Atsme are pretty common by painting others' actions as BLP, NPOV violations, etc. when it appears she just isn't familiar the spirit of WP:PSCI policy in how we handle BLPs, or the related Arbcom decisions relating to pseudoscience, fringe/conspiracy theories, etc. as Callanec posted in the admin section below. To an outside observer who's been following this topic, the case presented here looks more like a very large and dirty pot calling the kettle black for a smudge. Maybe it would be better to separate Atsme's behavior out into a separate case here if her behavior is really going to be focused on in the context of both BLP and pseduoscience sanctions; there is a lot of history that would need to be explored if that was the case. However, it does seem like the behavior of other involved editors (namely the OP of this posting) should be considered in the specific case of Steeletrap's interactions. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:19, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

Another day, another wall of text defence of quackery apologia on the Griffin article by Atsme.

I honestly thought Atsme was over this crusade by now, but apparently not. The fact that the Griffin article is a biography has absolutely no bearing on the fact that laetrile is quackery of a particularly pernicious and exploitative kind. It has been described as the most lucrative health fraud in American history, and it is just one of a number of conspiracy theories advanced as fact by Griffin. That that he is a notorious crank and proponent of conspiracy theories and pseudoscience is a simple fact, it is not our problem to solve, and certainly not something we should excise from the record.

I do not think Atsme can edit productively in any area related to Griffin. I strongly suspect that anything related to laetrile, and possibly even to the John Birch Society and its many bizarre ideas, may also be a problem.

It's a shame. Atsme is very nice, but on this subject she is entirely wrong, and obstinately so.

Arthur Rubin is precisely correct: Steeltrap will not repeat the problem, Atsme undoubtedly will, and is, and needs to be removed from this article before she ends up blocked for tendentious editing. Guy (Help!) 19:11, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

General comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

At the risk of someone invoking Godwin's law, it is not a WP:BLP violation to describe someone as a conspiracy theorist, if reliable sources do so, any more so than it is to describe, for example, David Irving as a holocaust denier. This request seems to indicate that self-identification is required. It is not. Most conspiracy theorists don't describe themselves as conspiracy theorists. This is why we should rely on secondary sources (independent of the subject) with a reputation for accuracy and fact-checking.

That said, I have never heard of this person before, and did not check whether reliable sources described them as a conspiracy theorist. Mine is just a general comment about WP:BLP and WP:V policies. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:55, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Steeletrap

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I haven't looked at this in detail yet but I note that WP:ARBPSEUDO and WP:ARBCAM both apply here as well if we don't believe that BLP DS are the best option. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
• I'm not seeing a real coherent case for disruption here. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 18:49, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

NorthBySouthBaranof

Retartist

Arzel

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Arzel

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Arzel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics#Arzel warned :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. February 12, 2015 "So when Carson is called a hate extremist by the SLPC it is fine to plaster his page with that idiocy, yet when the SLPC retracts the statement it is not fine? Hypocrites." (Personalizing and politicizing a content dispute)
2. February 11, 2015 "You confuse WP:NOTNEWS with WP:N and do many WP editors wishing to frame a political story. Hell, it is barely 2015 and the silly season crap has started already." (Personalizing and politicizing a content dispute)
3. February 10, 2015 "Added response to the tripe. SPLC loses respect by the day." (edit summary - Politicizing a content dispute)
4. February 10, 2015 "Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Chris Hayes, Al Sharpton.....it is pretty well-known. If anything, it is acting as a propaganda arm of the Obama administration." (Politicizing a content dispute)
5. January 5, 2015 "Please don't wipe the media mentions from the talk page without discussion. You can't simply whitewash this out of existance. Also, please leave your conspiracy theories elsewhere." (Personalizing a content dispute)
6. February 4, 2015 "Your answer speaks volumes about your purpose here. There is no evidence that this has long lasting notability, your statement has no weight. The event was political to begin with even if your man is trying to hide the fact behind stupid words and a cluelessness about reality."(Personalizing a content dispute, and a clear personal attack)
7. February 4, 2015 "Some of your edits appear to be quite transparent in your goals." (Personalizing a content dispute)
8. January 19, 2015 "If you want to attack Emerson for his views on Islam go do it somewhere else." (Personalizing a content dispute)
9. January 12, 2015 "You are an admin, you should help reign this crap in, not propagate it." (Personalizing a content dispute)
10. November 2, 2014 "Why do you feel the need to trash a living person?" (Personalizing a content dispute)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Admin warning on 4 February 2015

Arzel has a long, well-documented history of abusive and disruptive personal comments. Arcom gave a clear warning to Arzel not to persist in this type of behavior, but unfortunately it has had little effect. Arzel spends a great deal of his Misplaced Pages time reverting other editor's contributions, complaining about liberal bias, and making insulting claims about editors' intentions. He gravitates to controversial political and news agency articles, but does very little to collaborate with other editors to actually try to improve the articles.

There are other milder examples from the past few months. I don't think there is any point filling the page with addition diffs, but will do so if it helps.- MrX 16:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Arzel

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Arzel

Mr.X's preferred method of dealing with those his disagrees is drama boards. I try to uphold BLP issues and am constantly attacked by him for it. Arzel (talk) 17:34, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MastCell

(Commenting as an involved editor here, not as an admin, due to previous interactions with Arzel).

Regarding Arzel's justification, I don't see how any of the comments cited by MrX are essential to upholding BLP. Instead, they seem like a continuation of Arzel's pattern of ideologically driven battleground editing, personalization, and politicization of disputes. Since he's been previously called out for this by ArbCom (Arzel is warned that continuing to personalize or politicize content disputes is disruptive to the project, and continuing behavior of this nature may lead to further sanctions, up to and including a ban from the project), I think that administrative intervention is called for here. MastCell  21:51, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

Most of these diffs are unimpressive, however, two are. Perhaps a short block or topic ban is in order here. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 02:09, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Arzel

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Whatever Mr.X's motivations, these are clear examples of problematic behavior. Gamaliel (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Tarc

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Tarc

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Avono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:03, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Tarc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Tarc_topic-banned :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 00:57, 12 February 2015 Commenting on a request for enforcement concerning NorthBySouthBaranof's gamergate edits
2. 13:28, 12 February 2015 Commenting on a gamergate related article concerning WP:ARBGG.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Tarc

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Tarc

Diff #1, albeit snarky, is in regards to a policy question wrt ban exceptions, it was not a comment on the Gamergate topic. This was on an admin's talk page, and if said admin did not have a problem with it, I see little reason for Avono to come crying to AE.

Diff #2 is an observation that either the God-King or an Arbitrator may be being a bit less than truthful, as their statements are in direct contradiction to one another. Again, not a discussion about Gamergate itself.

The weight I put upon a "complaint" filed by a) a single-purpose-account who b) was not involved in either discussion is immeasurably infinitesimal. In both instances, I was discussing the failings of Wikipedian editors in regards to policy. None of it was directly tied to the hallowed gamergate...a topic which no longer exists on my watchlist in any form. In perusing recent AE cases though, it is heartening to see that several of Avono's GG cohorts have been shown the door, which is likely the source for this angsty and malicious filing. He and bros no doubt celebrated the Arb finding that topic-banned...or banned outright in the case of the shafted Ryulong...several of us, and anticipated that the coast was clear for a pro-Gamergate slant to the topic area. It must be a bitter pill to swallow to see karma returned in thrice. For that, my joy is immense. Tarc (talk) 19:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Avono, I have a field of cares; gaze upon it, and witness the barrenness thereof. You had your say, I had my rebuttal, and I am not going to lower myself to further debate. The admins are perfectly capable of looking at what was said without further elucidation from you. Tarc (talk) 20:17, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

@Admins, IIRC from WP:GGE, comments like AQFK's that advance no argument and provide no diffs or evidence were rather frowned upon. Given the mob tactics that were all too common around this topic area, it helped reduce the SNR considerably. Tarc (talk) 02:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Avono

You edited a talkpage titled "Barnof" in which Carrite states Your interpretation of BLP that ostensible BLP defense excuses violation of an Arbcom topic ban by NxSBaranof is, shall we say, unique. That you have at the same time moved to topic ban off one of Baranof's innumerable opponents does not speak well for your judgment. Please consider yourself "involved" with respect to any future motions made against him — his site ban is coming. This relates to an enforcement request related to NBSB editing the GG page under WP:BANEX. According to WP:TBAN ban covers all pages (not only articles) broadly related to the topic, as well as the parts of other pages that are related to the topic. For example, if an editor is banned from the topic "weather", they are not only forbidden to edit the article Weather, but also everything else that has to do with weather, such as:discussions or suggestions about weather-related topics anywhere on Misplaced Pages, for instance a deletion discussion concerning an article about a meteorologist, but also including edit summaries and the user's own user and talk pages. NBSB ban exception occurred when he edited the gamergate article. The discussion about the Arb was related to the Gamergate case. Therefore I conclude that these edits are covered under the broadly constructed topic ban. Avono (talk) 19:56, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

I don't see how diff #2 is anything but a topic-ban violation. The point of a topic-ban is to get an editor to completely disengage from a particular topic, not to let them poke around the edges of it. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:44, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Tarc

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• It seems that both users are continuing to use Misplaced Pages to fight over GamerGate here. These comments by Tarc appear to be borderline, but these sorts of edits should be discouraged. Avono was recently topic banned by User:HJ Mitchell from discussing Mark Bernstein after repeatedly commenting on his off and on-site remarks and making several attempts to get him blocked for violating his topic ban. Perhaps Avono should be topic banned from trying to get other users blocked or banned? Gamaliel (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
• I don't see anything here that is enforceable. In fact, I do wonder if Gamaliel's last sentence above is viable, because I (and frankly the community) do tend to take a dim view of dubious AE requests against those who disagree with them. But I'd suggest that Avono at least come up with better than this as an AE request. Black Kite (talk) 00:03, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

AnsFenrisulfr

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning AnsFenrisulfr

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

JzG (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:57, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

AnsFenrisulfr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamergate :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. First ever edit, acknowledges membership of the gamergate cult.
2. , edit no. 32, is plainly not the action of a genuinely new user, raising very strong suspicions of sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry in an area already overrun with drama-only accounts collaborating off-wiki with an agenda orthogonal to Misplaced Pages's foundational goals.

AnsFenrisulfr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a "brand new user" who has essentially no contributions to Misplaced Pages other than commentary around Gamergate, some of which seems to me to amount to simple trolling. The user exhibits classic gamergater WP:CPUSH tactics. Guy (Help!) 18:57, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

DS notice was issued by Gamaliel, 22:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC) () but does not appear to have triggered the edit filter.

This account should, I think be speedily removed from the fray.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning AnsFenrisulfr

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by AnsFenrisulfr

Wow, just... wow. So, the first diff you use as evidence is my apologizing to someone. And the second is of an AE report which I have APOLOGIZED publically to NbSB for laying against him, due to me misunderstanding BANEX. <- Me apologizing to NbSB

I am also somewhat perturbed by you implying I am a sock... because I knew how to do something. I had 13 days between my last post in GamerGate Controversy and that date. Did it not occur to you that I could have been spending that time researching how Misplaced Pages RUNS? Which would have been entirely in line with my repeated questions to other editors on how to do things? Is this kind of treatment normal for new editors? AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 00:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I would also add. I have made NO edits to the GamerGate controversy article. Intentionally so. I chose to restrict myself to only the talk page, allowing more experienced editors than I to change it. This is Bad Faith at it's worst. AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 00:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I also wish to point out highly Uncivil language by JzG. So I am part of a Cult am I? AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 02:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

I couldn't agree more, but apparently that view is controversial. Guy (Help!) 23:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC) Comment moved from "Result" section below. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 23:29, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starke Hathaway

Meh. The first diff is an apology, of all things, and exactly the sort of behavior that should be encouraged in a collaborative editing effort, particularly in a contentious subject area. The second diff is a good faith report of editing by a banned user who, technicalities aside, has made it clear they have no intention of staying away from the topic area from which the community, via ArbCom, banned them. Lest we forget, one of the stated rationale for the ArbCom sanctions was to clear out entrenched and combative editors to allow fresher and more collaborative users into the topic area. There is no evidence of disruption here. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 23:36, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

And here is AnsFenrisulf apologizing on NorthBySouthBaranof's talk page for misunderstanding the ban exceptions and bringing the enforcement request. It takes a really dramatic assumption of bad faith to conclude that this user is here for the purpose of disruption. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 00:01, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

Yes, this is a pretty obvious Remedy 1.2(ii) candidate under the discretionary sanctions. Bag it and move on. Those of a more charitable disposition may want to try a nudge and then sit and watch what happens before passing a topic ban. The incorrigibly saintly might simply direct the SPA to more productive areas and hope it takes the hint. But don't fool yourselves, admins: Arbcom wants this pestilence (the Gamergate nonsense) gone from Misplaced Pages and empowers you to do what is necessary. This is not 4chan. --TS 01:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning AnsFenrisulfr

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I don't understand why we spend so much effort and angst over obvious SPAs. This is the encyclopedia anyone can edit, yes. So just topic ban this one and they can still edit any other article of the millions of articles on the encyclopedia. We should not continue to pretend that accounts like these are not here to push their agenda, nor should we continue to allow sensitive and controversial articles to serve as the apprenticeship of novice encyclopedia editors. Gamaliel (talk) 19:54, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages arbitration