Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:38, 21 July 2006

Archives

/Archive 1

/Archive 2

/Archive 3

Actually

That would be a good article should there be an article comparing Baptists with other Christian groups, which is what Shi'a and Islam is doing. Can you think of a better title for a page comparing a subset of a religion with a superset of a religion? Trick is, it can't have "Misconceptions" in the title. I think the new article title is more than appropriate. Regards, - FrancisTyers · 22:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey man, thanks for your considered note :) I still have reservations about the name, but I think that it could be better at something like Views on Shi'a Islam? Basically if we follow WP:NPOV, we can't just have "Negative" or "Positive" in an article, we have to have both, to present both sides of the story. Would you prefer this new title, I think it allays both of our concerns. - FrancisTyers · 01:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem, thanks again for your suggestions :) (I've accidentally clicked on your joke twice now) :) - FrancisTyers · 01:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

New Dhimmi editor

Hey Aminz. I was wondering whether/how you think we should welcome new contributors to the article? (You reverted text. I googled for Maimonides and conversion and Islam and it is all terribly controversial and complex and I don't have any academic refs yet.) Itsmejudith 12:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Opinion vs. fact

This edit is but the latest example of your failure to distiguish between facts and opinions. That the Qur'an does not demand the earthly penalty for apostasy and that only the Shafi'is interpret Sura 2:214 as requiring to execute the apostates is a fact, not opinion; attributing this fact to Heffening makes no sense. It's disruptive to try and bring every single article that you edit must be reduced to the Criticism of Islam standard: Criticism of Islam is a collection of opinions by definition. I'm not going to level against you your favorite charges of selective quotation and misrepresentation (you've chosen to write that the Qur'an does not demand punishment for apostasy, but failed to write about the hadith, which do demand death penalty); I'm just noting your editing pattern. Pecher 20:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

First of all, thanks for letting me know about that one scholar whom I couldn't read(the fonts were completely messed up). Secondly, I said, "Heffening states X" not that "Heffening believes X". A scholar can state a fact. The reader will accept it as a fact if there are no other quotes made there. Now, as to your claim of "my selective quotation and misrepresentation", please have a look at the original article written by Heffening. I honestly summerized one whole long paragraph within its context. Heffening doesn't mention that Hadith there and that was why I didn't mention that Hadith in my summary. Also, I will be more than happy to learn about my editing failures and correct myself if I feel there is something wrong. --Aminz 21:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

No, it's pointless to attribute a fact to someone; only opinions may be attributed. Otherwise, the whole Misplaced Pages would read like "A says X" and would be everyone's laughing stock. Secondly, Heffening does write about the hadith, right in the paragraph after the Qur'an. Sorry, at this point, it's hard to believe that you've said it good faith given the fact that you attempted to post the whole article from the Encyclopaedia of Islam on the article's talk page. Pecher 21:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

And my question is that how do you know if something is "a fact" or "only opinions"? Especially could you please explain how "Muhammad moved to attack Khaybar in order to raise his prestige among his followers, as well as to capture booty to sustain subsequent conquests." is a fact and not an opinion.

Secondly, I attempted to post the whole article from the Encyclopaedia of Islam on the article's talk page so that editors who have time may use it as a source for the article. Had I wanted to misrepresent the source, I wouldn't have posted the whole article on the talk page.

Thirdly, please note that I was editing the intro. I didn't mention any of the Qur'anic verse (to show they don't prescribe it) as well. Rather I just mentioned that they don't prescribe death penalty. I also added that Hadiths don't have the elements of the hereafter punishment and instead we have death punishment. The article already said that all five schools prescribe death penalty. There was a gap explaining why there are some who don't believe so and this gap was filled with the paragraph I added.

Fourthly, you are welcome to summarize the first and second paragraph again (by for example adding a couple of Qur'anic verses and also the Hadiths or however you feel is better). --Aminz 21:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Urgent

Please vote here. Thanks--Zereshk 00:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)