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• I may have pinged you in a response to a recent message; please see User talk:Drmies/Archive 81. Thank you.

What emptiness.

Hafspajen (talk) 12:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

What is this place?

Me thinks I'm lost. It was hard enough being a talk page stalker knowing where I was, but now I don't know where I'm not. Atsme☯ 15:56, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Join the club . EEng (talk) 16:10, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Shall we al sit here and feel the Emptiness? Hafspajen (talk) 16:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

• May I ask Technical 13 what was the point to put this picture in an archive from 2007? Or why archive somebody else's page? Hafspajen (talk) 20:14, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Archived RfC at Slavic Speakers of Greek Macedonia

If, after having read the comments again, you still disagree with my synopsis (in particular, that 6 out of 7 respondents agree that in some cases it's permissible to make a specification), please let me know why (about this). Thanks! Tropcho (talk) 23:25, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

• Tropcho, that "the motivation had nothing to do with questions of ambiguity/difficulty of verification" is immaterial: it's a serious problem. In addition, you do not seem to acknowledged that "ethnic/language affiliation" is not an easy yoking together of two terms, which is a serious (BLP) problem recognized by Pmanderson and Taivo. I do not agree with your synopsis, and I do not understand what exactly the problem is: if you have a person, and you wish to include their nationality, ethnic background, linguistic affiliation, mother tongue (or stepmother tongue), blood group, etc., you can propose it on the talk page. You may think that "it's important to state explicitly in the summary that in unambiguous and reliably verifiable cases where ethnic/language affiliation is part of the notability (e.g. national activists, ethnicity researchers, etc.) a specification is permissible", and that six out of seven agreed with your wording, but I disagree, and I'm not going to stick something in the close that I don't see consensus for. Six out of seven? As I said before, there are three NOs, and how that gets turned into 86% support for your statement, I don't know. You have a way to get the things into the article that you want in, if you have the evidence for it and get the consensus for it; I don't know what more you want. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Should I do the count?

Comments 1-3: yes, it's OK.

Comment 4 (Taivo) no

Comment 5 yes, if they unambiguously and verifiably stated it themselves.

Comment 6 (PMAnderson) bad idea. Comment finishes with "If a person was a leader of a Bulgarian or Macedonian ethnic movement - and for some of the history involved these would be the same thing - that's a biographical fact. Include, and source."

Comment 7 In general no, with exceptions for those where that ethnicity is a significant part of their notability (activist, researcher specifically in ethnicity, etc).

So (depending on how you interpret PMAnderson's remark) either 5/7 (comments 1-3, 5, 7) or 6/7 (1-3, 5-7) people think in some cases it's permissible. Two of the "no's" have an important except.

And this is not a BLP problem, because 1) most people on that list are dead 2) we are not talking about the ambiguous cases where we can't know or verify; let me emphasize this: the question is whether it is permissible to do a specification for some people on the list (those where we have a way to know unambiguously), not whether it is permissible to specify everyone's identity. I agree that it's in fact impossible to do the latter. Tropcho (talk) 00:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

And to answer your question, I'd be happy to see a summary that somehow reflects the 4 (or more) YESes, not only the 3 (or less) NOs. Tropcho (talk) 00:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not a vote. If there's so much math involved in your summary, perhaps you were asking the wrong question. You can take the matter up at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard (with the other commenters) or at WP:AN (to get this close overturned). Thank you. Drmies (talk) 01:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Very interesting. How much math is counting up to 7? And who said it is a vote? I just suggested a summary that reflects all comments, not the minority. And in case you didn't notice, Taivo's concerns were addressed. Perhaps the question could have been phrased better to avoid any misunderstandings, but even as it is there's no reason to have a summary that completely ignores a significant number of the answers, in my opinion. Tropcho (talk) 07:16, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Good luck in the next state, if that's where you're going. Perhaps there they will recognize that, for instance, "Taivo's concerns were addressed" simply must mean that a universal truth is uttered. Drmies (talk) 16:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Huh? What made you think I implied that? Or was this a taunt? If you have difficulties assuming good faith or staying civil, perhaps take a break. For the rest, I do think your summary isn't accurate, for the reasons stated above, and will probably pursue further. Take care. Tropcho (talk) 12:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

"Failed at AN"

So far as I can see, the only two admins with any objection are the two admins that abdicated their responsibility to supervise an editor that they unblocked over the strenuous objections of multiple parties. I really am at a loss here: what was the purpose of placing a 0RR restriction on an editor if you did not intend on reblocking when the restriction was violated? What did it mean if it could be violated without consequence?—Kww(talk) 23:49, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

• There is no formal ban, and you're not at a loss: I'm sure you were quite pleased you could drop a three-month blockhammer down after that edit warring report. Maybe you should learn to see farther than "block"; two sides can be at fault, and you never seem to look at the other side. Why should you? That guy from Chile is just an asshole who refuses to get an account and who, for some weird reason, gets pissed when they get reverted. I am not claiming that I was right here just because you're so wrong, nor that the IP didn't deserve a block of sorts--but the glee with which the vultures come swooping in, yeah, that's a distasteful spectacle. And what you're trying to enact on that LTA page isn't just distasteful, it's also wrong, and if you want that enshrined you're going to have to get it certified, in triplicate, from AN. Drmies (talk) 01:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• What reason do you have to believe that the IP will ever reform his behaviour? That's the point that you seem to miss: the quality of his edits doesn't matter when judging his behaviour, and his behaviour is unacceptable. And I actually am at a loss: while I disagree with you on many things, I don't tend to see you as dishonest. What was the point of the 0RR restriction? Why are editors having to take him to the edit-warring noticeboard instead of you blocking immediately on the first reversion? If you weren't intending to do that, what did you mean by a 0RR restriction?—Kww(talk) 05:15, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• Kww, I don't think I swore a blood oath to start blocking. If I remember correctly, the IP quit pinging me, and Yngvadottir responded on a number of occasions. Yngvadottir, like me, also doesn't seem to think that blocking is the way to go. And again, this ANEW thing was preceded by a number of reverts on the other editor's part, reverts that were in themselves at least open for censure. So I chose not to block either one, yes. The point you continually miss is that it always takes two to tango: the editor who took him there was themselves guilty of edit warring, and that's not the first time something like that happens--and pardon me for not believing a block is always the answer. But I'm done with this, Kww. The IP doesn't seem to want to discuss this with me or change their behavior to suit your desire (which is, I believe, for them to just roll over the first time someone hits them with a revert, no matter what the edit was), and your side seems to be winning in this fist fight. You also seem to miss that Y and I attempted to be in the middle, to mediate, to improve the project for everyone, and all we get as thanks is a bunch of shit. So now I should have blocked. I'm "enabling". I let someone chase people off the project. (I don't see who left, but OK.) I gladly admit that this attempt (which I have been in on for years) was an abject failure, but at least I tried, and maybe there is life and hope for future years in there. You can be all righteously angry, but I can only be sad. Drmies (talk) 16:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Drmies, Sorry you're getting so much grief over the IP. While I do have issues with the way they conduct themselves, and with their judgement on occassion, their editing of articles is normally (but not always) beneficial. I think you and Yngvadottir have done a worthy job in trying to curb some of the behaviourial excesses, and I am truly sorry that your efforts have not led to a satisfactory conclusion for all. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 19:48, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• SchroCat, thank you very much. A bit more help from their side could have made all the difference. I appreciate your note, I really do. Drmies (talk) 21:03, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Good... goooood!

My plan is working puhrrrfectleeee. <rubs hands, laughs diabolically> . EEng (talk) 02:36, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• Broken clocks and all that... :) Drmies (talk) 02:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • LOL, but even "broken clocks" can be fixed. Broken psyche's on the other hand... :) --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 20:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

But the dreaded greengrocers apostrophe is forever. EEng (talk) 04:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Green groce the rushe's O. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 08:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm back!

Thanks again for looking after my talk page and wondering what rock I was hiding under. I dropped 10 spots on Misplaced Pages:List of Wikipedians by number of edits during the time I was under the rock. While you might have passed me, I'm still leading you on User:JamesR/AdminStats by a wide margin. So there. =) -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 04:56, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• Dammit Gogo, what do I need to do? Block more? Delete more? Write less? Hey, nice to see you. Really, I didn't mean to twist your arm, trying to make you come back--but you were one of the old guard, one of the ones with a cool name who got their admin tool by emailing Jimbo and sending him ten bucks via PayPal. (No?) And the ranks are thinning: the latest admin to leave, it appears, is Coffee--ANI has insightful reading material, if you have nothing better to do for a half an hour. Anywayz, thanks for dropping by: not everyone gets a visit from a dodo. That reminds me! Dodos came up before dinner today--must have been something silly one of the kids said, but they played dodo until they realized that would mean they're all dead, extinct. Well now. Drmies (talk) 05:08, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
• Oh man, you got me by a factor 10... But you gotta watch out for that Materialscientist dude, who's been on a tear ever since he got the tool. Ha, I'd be proud if I had any kind of ranking in the unblock and undeletion list. Drmies (talk) 05:14, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I think I really just wanted to get off of Misplaced Pages:List of administrators/Inactive. I paid 15 bucks for my admin bit. Still wondering if it was worth the investment. I read ANI and the Signpost article. I see that nothing much has changed during the months I was hiding under a rock. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• I'm like halfway down the list. Drmies has thrice as many actions as I do, almost. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:45, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
  • That's still nothing compared to the high hitters. Hey Crisco, India Against Corruption is after me now--maybe that means that Sitush gets a breather. I'm pretty sure it's just one disgruntled person, from their language and tone. Hey, are you at a thousand Featured Pictures yet? Drmies (talk) 02:59, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

An article that you deleted

Bombardier Innovia APM has been recreated. You had deleted it before? Or atleast the talk page. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 13:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• Yep, as spam. I see that RHaworth and I likely disagree on what the threshold is. Drmies (talk) 20:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Expert admin advice sought on canvassing quandary

I nominated Category:Wikipedians with red-linked categories on their user talk page for deletion. I'm wondering if I should notify the ten users who have put their pages in that category. While it seems courteous, I don't want to appear to be inappropriately canvassing, as I believe all of those users would be in favor of deletion (unless someone's just striving for irony). MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:26, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• The moment irony may be involved there's no telling who might swing which way, so I wouldn't worry. Appearing to be courteous is always good, unless you're on ANI. Drmies (talk) 00:05, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reply. Now that I've thought about it some more, I don't think there's any reason for notifications. Given my logical argument (in honor of Leonard Nimoy, I always try to be logical), I don't see how it could possibly fail to be deleted no matter what anyone says. There's only one user for whom the category is currently applicable, and even in the unlikely event some other people who use it wanted to keep the category around for the irony, I don't think it would be acceptable for other reasons, such as joke categories not being allowed. (And in this case, the mere existence of the category ruins the joke anyways.) MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 01:11, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Live long in Prosper, Mandarax. EEng (talk) 04:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Did you know ... that when Zachary Quinto portrayed Spock, he was unable to perform the Vulcan salute, so his fingers were glued together? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:51, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Of course, the real logic bomb is Category:Wikipedians who do not have a redlinked category on their userpage, to which I've just added myself. If you belong to it, then categorizing yourself as such means you are no longer eligible for it, but as soon as you remove it, you belong to it again and so need to re-add it. I knew Misplaced Pages was good for something. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 20:14, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

No article

Hafspajen (talk) 16:56, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

re: Talk:Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships & blocked user 143.176.62.228

Note: Three more IPs that geolocate to the Netherlands have appeared:

• Talk: 08:13, 27 February 2015 188.88.30.50 (+157) (A brilliant solution, just brilliant)
• Talk: 08:15, 27 February 2015 188.88.30.50 (-218) (A brilliant solution, just brilliant)

Note: claimed to "have been blocked without a valid reason"

• Talk: 11:09, 28 February 2015 31.20.100.191 (+343) (Abraham and Sarah or Joseph and Mary.)
• Talk: 10:21, 3 March 2015 178.224.233.23 (+93) (Moving forward)

Note: Within 14 minutes after that posting, a new account was created:

• Commons account: Commonismus (Created on 3 March 2015 at 10:35)

3 images were created at 10:47 (UTC), each described as "Dirty old man with much younger woman. By Lucas Cranach the Elder", and source as "Own digitalization of ancient painting".

• en.wiki account: Commonismus (Created on 3 March 2015 at 10:50)
• Talk: 10:53, 3 March 2015 Commonismus (+218) (File:Lucas Cranach Elder 1.jpg)

I doubt that those images were digitized by Commonismus since they seem to be crude modifications of a work which is actually by Albrecht Altdorfer, not Lucas Cranach:

• http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Loth_and_his_Daughters_-_WGA00206.jpg
• http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Albrecht_Altdorfer_046.jpg
• http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Lot_and_his_Daughters,_Altdorfer.jpg

• Disclosure. I made a previous edit to the above talk page 12:21, 25 February 2015 using a different IP number 172.164.43.160, and 1 edit to the article using present IP number after semi-protection expired. I don't know if any of the above is block evasion, but those newly fabricated pictures need to be deleted. Thanks for your time. —172.162.6.142 (talk) 05:52, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
• Where do I come in? Isn't SlimVirgin a better person to ask? She's semi'd the article before... Drmies (talk) 16:16, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Vietcong nuturlizer

You blocked Vietcong nuturlizer (talk · contribs). I attempted to remove the personal attacks (don't worry, being called gay isn't the worst thing!), but was reverted. You might want to go ahead and revoke their talk page access. DYK I'm a lesbian? I'll have to share that breaking news with my husband. APK whisper in my ear 12:23, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

• What an enormous loser. Also, I'M NOT GAY! Drmies (talk) 16:08, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
• That interview with Shaud Williams is still totally cringeworthy: "we have no one like that on the team". One of my friends was on the field for that game, and apparently it was worse than the clip even suggests. Drmies (talk) 16:11, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of our dear friend, and yes, that clip is awkward. (I laughed and cringed) APK whisper in my ear 16:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Atsme☯ 20:24, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Maybe Dr Mice likes "Alabama ham" with his gator-eggs? Don't worry Doc, you're probably just a gayer. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:31, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

What is a "Bumblefoot" ? Hafspajen (talk) 20:39, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

- That's the feeling you get when you unwittingly add something to an article that six other editors have atready taken out. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:44, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I respect Drmies, and don't want my little pokes of fun to be misconstrued. And I especially don't want anything I've included for the purpose of bringing a smile to this happy place to be misrepresented. Atsme☯ 21:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Why? Hafspajen (talk) 22:47, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

A smile?! Goodness me, that's the last thing we need. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

An Elegant Company Playing Music

7+6 Found this on User:The Interior talk page. Had to share it.

21:09, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hafspajen (talk) 21:32, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hafspajen, any idea why Safari won't play videos and audio on Misplaced Pages, but Firefox will? It's really irritating. Atsme☯ 21:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Because Elizabeth Green the Stork Woman has forbidden it. Hafspajen (talk) 22:45, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow, is that really Jimbo singing?? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Ploughing in the Nivernais

On 4 March 2015, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ploughing in the Nivernais, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Rosa Bonheur's Ploughing in the Nivernais (pictured) was described as a "pictorial translation" of George Sand's novel La Mare au Diable? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ploughing in the Nivernais. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 22:11, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

thanks

glad you pinged LoS ... I wanted her view, but wasn't sure I should ask. — Ched :  ?  00:04, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Ched, what made you hesitate? You can always ask me! LadyofShalott 17:43, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Mainly because I never see you in anything even the least bit controversial. You always just go about improving the project. :) (and thank you for your comments!) — Ched :  ?  17:48, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Hah, that's because since I don't care for the fighting that occurs, I just tend to avoid those areas. :) That said, I'll reiterate: if you want my opinion on something, always ask! If I'd rather not get into it, I'll say so. LadyofShalott 17:52, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

You know, I just saw a job posting in Knoxville, I am going to try and get it so we can all hang out more (don't worry Ched, I will stop in on my way down there). :) --kelapstick 18:10, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Knoxville is a great town, unless you have asthma. Drmies (talk) 18:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Fortunately I don't. The best pizza I ever had was when I was traveling through Knoxville, we spent the night on our way to Florida. Pity I cant remember the name of the place, although that was probably 25 years ago.--kelapstick 20:47, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I haven't visited Knoxville in a long time, but go for it! LadyofShalott 20:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Deletion of Page Angry_Engineers_Entertainment

Re: Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Angry_Engineers_Entertainment, please see the page talk page for a reason why it should not have been deleted; I was also given absolutely no time or indication before the page was deleted to actually contest it. Citation: http://store.steampowered.com/app/243300/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nommyface (talk • contribs) 00:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

• Sorry, that's not enough of a reason. Existence does not equal notability. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 00:55, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Notability? Various articles around the internet reference the game. Rock Paper Shotgun: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/07/08/space-station-titanic-centration/ / PC Gamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-early-access-report-contraption-maker-broforce-and-centration/ / The first game on Steam using Unreal Engine 4 that's available for Linux: http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6857821-But-is-it-on-Linux/ Gaming On Linux: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/centration-fps-space-simulation-released-on-steam-for-linux.3437 - I can also come up with -VARIOUS- other pages on Misplaced Pages with smaller companies with even less significant games on Steam; and will gladly provide a list of necessary - delete them all or put the page back up.
    • I don't do ultimatums, but I'll do advice. Rewrite your article and submit it through WP:AFC, and when you do, put all your references in. Whether any of them count as reliable sources, and whether any of those mentions constitute significant discussion, I'll leave that for you to decide. Drmies (talk) 01:37, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
      • I was working on adding the references and formatting the page correctly when it was deleted. Like I said, I was given essentially no time to contest or even update the page before it was deleted; I thought you (or page patrollers) were supposed to observe a minimum time before you go all elitist egotistical delete crazy? You know nothing of this subject by your comments, so why are you even in a position to judge the notability of a game developer? nommyface
        • Yeah, good question. Now, I gave you some valuable advice; go spent your time writing up a draft. And next time, consider writing something decent before submitting it. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 01:57, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
          • Nommyface, if I may offer my advice (as an angry engineer). The article was tagged quite soon after creation (probably too soon I will grant you, and I will discuss that with the editor in question), however the page was deleted about a half hour after it was created, which is generally long enough to sit before being deleted. As Drmies says, you should recreate the article through Articles for Creation, and have it reviewed prior to submission. You should also stop calling people names, it isn't very nice. I would be happy to restore and move the article for you (if it hasn't been done already). --kelapstick 02:01, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
            • Thank you Kelapstick, I'm sorry for reverting to childish behaviour; kind of up to my eyeballs in a lot of different things at the moment. I'd like to have it restored - however I'll work on a new article that's done up properly before. Can I confirm the process for doing this so I don't get yelled at again?
            • K, thank you for being so much nicer than me. Nommyface, my apologies. Drmies (talk) 02:21, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
              • Not at all, I owe you a jar of our mustard pickles. --kelapstick 02:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
                • You don't have to apologize for anything, I'm sorry for being rather rude about the whole situation; it's kind of more than a little insulting to have everything I've been working towards for the past two years called 'not notable'.

I have taken the liberty of restoring and moving the page to Draft:Angry Engineers Entertainment, the article is not suitable as it sits now, it needs much more in the way of referencing in reliable sources, you should also have a read of referencing for beginers, which explains how to reference the article. Cheers, --kelapstick 02:56, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Sidebar

• On a related note, know what an engineer uses for birth control? His personality. I'm here all week, try the veal. --kelapstick 01:04, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I hope you get that extra tool so you can oversight your jokes. Nice to see you again, K. Been too long. Drmies (talk) 01:15, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
    • Oh come on, that's comedy gold. You can use that with the engineering students if you like. --kelapstick 01:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
      • Speaking of comedy, DYK that drafts (even this one, Draft:Graeson Scott Cameron) do not seem to be eligible for A7? Drmies (talk) 03:29, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
        • I believe that is what IAR was invented for. Or you could wait six months for G13. --kelapstick 03:35, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
          • I don't find it surprising that someone who cites the first law of thermodynamics as a deletion criterion is advocating IAR. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:10, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
            • Really, because I thought I was on a roll here. Regardless, the outcome is the same. --kelapstick 11:42, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Your thoughts on resolving the impasse at Landmark Worldwide

I responded to your comments at the Landmark talk page - I probably should have pinged you. I was wondering what you saw as a good avenue for resolving the long-running dispute there. Mediation was recently offered, but many editors ignored or refused the offer. Your thoughts would be appreciated! Nwlaw63 (talk) 14:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

• I have no experience with mediation. I always hope for common sense--like with this NRM thing. Let's be reasonable: it's found in reliable sources, plenty of them, it's valid article content, it has a place--a minor place, but still--in the lead. And then we can move on. Drmies (talk) 19:13, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Just FYI, there's an AE thread open concerning Landmark. You and your zebras may or may not want to take a spin over there. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:59, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Opinion needed

Hello, you left me a note a couple weeks ago about revering vandalize... Anyway, you're the only admin I've run into. I was wondering if you could give me some advice. Last week, Misplaced Pages:CYCLING started working on replacing our notability guidelines. However, a couple editors refused to listen to my points and the dialogue devolved. Could you look at the conversation and give me feedback. Was I too harsh? It's probably not your specialty, but I'd like to know. Maybe I'm not fit for Misplaced Pages? Buzzards-Watch Me Work (talk) 20:03, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

• Yeah, well, that's a long discussion. A minimum number of words or sources requirement isn't going to work; it doesn't work that way anywhere on Misplaced Pages (for better or for worse). I agree that "Creating solid/well cited pages are better than nonreferenced stubs" but that can easily clash with any notability guideline. Now, if someone won something in Andorra, does that make them notable? First of all, liquor and cigarettes weren't taxed last time in Andorra, so I'd go there by car and load up. Second, well, yeah--since the sports projects have decided to fetishize nationhood, they have to come up with a rule that applies fairly to different countries (and then they can plant their ugly and inappropriate flags all over the place).

  Now, I read all the way to the "let's start voting" bit--what's the problem? Is it about whether or not someone finished a Grand Tour? If that's the only reason to reject a proposal with many more elements, well, it's your right I suppose. And excluding national champions if they're from a small country begs the question of what "small" is--it's undefinable. If Basqueland ever comes to exist, you're talking about a minute country with a lot of great climbers. Plus, the systemic bias point that Lugnuts brought up is very valid: no one should want to build notability guidelines on "what size is your country". (Well, my country may be small, but my pilum is stronger than your sternum, that Roman guy from Asterix might say.) Telling them you're talking to children is probably never a good idea (though I believe Lugnuts drew first blood on that page).

  See, you made your point, but no one accepts it. We can't force someone into agreement and, as an administrator and an old-time editor who has, for instance, closed lots of RfCs, at this point your opponents really have the stronger arguments (sorry--I'm an equal opportunity offender...); calling them children will make it only less likely that they'll see things your way. You win some, you lose some: it seems you're losing this one. Sorry, but I know how it feels--it's not a great feeling. Thanks, and good luck, Drmies (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Your equal-opportunity offence

Thank you for your comments and taking the time to look back into the Landmark article and AE threads. I'll gladly accept anything you throw in my direction, as long as it improves the project. Enjoy your afternoon, Tgeairn (talk) 21:23, 5 March 2015 (UTC)