Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:15, 21 July 2006

Great work on the Abramoff stuff

Whew. A lot of great stuff there. I've done a first pass at breaking out Abramoff articles:

• Jack Abramoff (still too big)
• Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal
• Jack Abramoff Guam investigation
• SunCruz Casinos
• monetary influence of Jack Abramoff (not sure of the name, but where the listing of money to & fro goes, since that's the current media obsession)
• list of Jack Abramoff-related organizations

But there's so much more info in the Refactor entry... The Cunctator 07:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back

Good to see that you didn't take too long of break. If you check his block log, you will see that 62.0.181.94 finally got himself a block. Maybe you will have an easier time working on the Abramoff articles now. Good luck! --StuffOfInterest 18:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff's Religion

I don't know if removing both Jewish activist references was fair, certainly you could argue doing it in the first sentence might be overstating it, but it is a relevant characteristic of Abramoff due, because it denotes one of Jack Abramoff Political motives, as explained by Abramoff himself. Abramoff stated that he felt that some of his work in the promotion of Israel and the Jewish religion justified many of his actions. Isn't this important to mention if it helps tell Abramoff's story in a balanced manner.--M4bwav 04:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

That's an extremely controversial topic in this article, with strong feelings from people on both sides. However, please provide a cite for this: "Abramoff stated that he felt that some of his work in the promotion of Israel and the Jewish religion justified many of his actions." I have done a lot of research on Abramoff and I have not read that. KWH

Roger that, I'll see if I can get an exact quote it is mentioned by one of the two lead reporters who broke the Abramoff story, you can see him explaining this motive of Abramoff, the reporter claims comes from his own interviews with Abramoff, which the reporter states in the CSPAN video for this show: C-SPAN Special on Jack Abramoff & the Tribal Lobbying Investigation - Part 2 (01/04/2006), I'm going to see if I can get an article with quotes mentioning what that reporter talked about.

The columnist name is Michael Crowley of The New Republic, he has written and interviewed Abramoff probably more than anyone else. Now I got to find that needle--M4bwav 15:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Found it " I have spent years giving away virtually everything I made, he said. Frankly, I didn't need to have a kosher delicatessen. That was money I could have bought a yacht with. I don't live an extravagant lifestyle. I felt that the resources coming into my hands were the consequence of God putting them there. ", this establishes his Jewish motivation, he was a deeply religious man. I'm going to find a couple more quotes to lay this contraversy to rest. Spin WatchJack Abramoff and Tainted Tzedekah

Good research on sources - just watch out. I got personally attacked by others just for trying to be a referee in the argument, and I'm not interested in seeing it explode again. I'm still trying to fully understand Jack's psyche and motivations for my own benefit, I'd be interested in knowing more as his behavior toward the tribes and some others was almost sociopathic in his lack of empathy, and in some cases psychopathic, but he still (as you say) maintains some belief in a moral basis for his actions. KWH

I concur, I've definitely got to make sure I can get a couple more quotes to solidify the argument, before I enter the fray, sounds like some people are going to get banned over this. I also agree that there are a million sides to Abramoff which is one of the reasons he's such a interesting subject matter.--M4bwav 17:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the conclusion. Yes, he may have compartmentalized himself, and in some areas of his life he was religious, but his talk about God, etc., with regard to his scandals seems (obvious to me) to be post-hoc justification and/or spin to put his actions in a more favorable light. In fact, a more recent quote from him was this: "God sent me 1,000 hints that he didn't want me to keep doing what I was doing. But I didn't listen, so he set off a nuclear bomb." (See http://www.time.com/time/verbatim/20060130/5.html). No -- his motivation in the lobbying scandals were to make money, be a power player, see the success of the GOP agenda, and so forth. Sholom 13:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Revision

Thank you for reverting the antisemtic/anti-Israel material. -Brad (with the Jew-hatred watch) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.250.193.168 (talk • contribs) .

Notice how criticizing any aspect of Israel becomes antisemtic and "Jew-hatred"? Notice, too, how you fan this bias by doing the grunt work for those who will, apparently, accept no discussion of Israel in the article even though Newsweek, The Hill, Bloomberg and probably other legitimate media sources thought this was one noteworthy aspect of the story. But we know why they reported it, don't we? Because they're Jew haters, of course. Needless to say, I don't appreciate your revert because of this manufactured "controversy." You slashed-and-burned the section to appease the Israel-firsters and you couldn't even bother to get the title of the Newsweek article right.--DieWeibeRose 08:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you DER - STRUM - ROSE.

I totally agree that pro-Israel groups are completely out of control, they essentially want to censor history from allowing any information that might cast a negative light on Israel from getting out. This is an insult to objectivity and it should not be tolerated.

--M4bwav 17:41, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I think they (and others) have every right to state their case as long as they do so civilly and without being disruptive. (which the anonymous IP contributors have been a little better at lately). KWH 05:49, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff E-mails

At Talk:Jack_Abramoff you wrote, "They are the documents at indian.senate.gov described as 'Exhibits released to the public as part of the Oversight Hearing on Lobbying Practices'." ...

I wrote, "Kwh, thanks for the link but there are six large PDF files there and I don't have a fast Internet connection. Would you please narrow it down to the particular file(s)?"--DieWeibeRose 08:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I was going through some of those emails for my Italia Federici article, great find BTW. I was wondering should some of those be uploaded to the wikimedia, in case Senate Committee decides to take them down, or is it not wikimedia not a place for PDF files. Thanks for you time, --M4bwav 02:57, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Change Back

We find this "older" version to be more accurate and that you added the strange "Octagon" stuff as a way to please some of the AntiJewish, ANTI - "Israel-firsters" (We're really cracking up at that one as we thought that we had heard it all)..... Anyway what balance is it striking, its just plain weird. And not even proven. The FBI didn't speak with this "friend" maybe abramoff made it up or contrived it somehow. This isn't WONKETTE its an Encyclopedia. Its really not relevant and marginal at the very least.

-Brad

This is a primary source, direct from Abramoff's emails, made public in the Senate Indian Affairs investigation. I would imagine that the FBI has spoken to this individual, though it's not public record. There are numerous emails from 2001 and 2002. Abramoff made contact with a Russian Oil and Gas company in October 2001, who gave him a quote on a Russian military thermal imager. He forwarded the information to 'octagon1' and asked for an opinion on what sort of 'objective' should be purchased on the imager.

When they found out the Russian company would take 6 months to deliver, 'octagon1' replied:

"I will fax you a letter stating that I am purchasing this equipment for the IDF, and at the same time get a signed letter from the commander of Paratroop brigade 890 to' who this may concern' Mr Shmuel Ben Zvi Is purchasing this thermal device for us.... And we can go both to RAYTHEON and FLIR (near boston) who sells the better MILCAMEXP. Then we just need "end user" clearence from the State Department."

I could tell you where to find the emails, but maybe you should do a little of your own research. KWH 04:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

• Sounds like he and his friend were doing all of this legally.

This is interesting and I downloaded the Senates Indian affairs material and read some of it myself, but it is non conclusive. Without the FBI's stamp of approvel we do not know if any of this ever came to fruition. All we know if that Jack spoke of it with a friend.

We made some changes in the article. It is of no concern to an Encyclopedia what a "reporter" wrote. We need governmental agencies to determine the facts for us. Or to concur with a reporters investigation. Thats not the case here. This is conjecture. So we should just stick to the facts. What the FBI suspects is OK, what the Senate reported is OK. But not Newsweek or Time. OH, Its ok if your writing for a Newspaper or magazine.Just not for an Encyclopedia.

-Brad

Israel Sniper School

Hey with your permission I was going to mention that the sniper school was in Israel, I won't make a big deal about it or anything, just a word or two. Don't you think it's a pretty important piece of information for a reader to know, it is unreasonable for a national to censor anything about their country. I think Brad might be chilled out now, to let it go. --M4bwav 21:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Catch me up, please!

Hey there -- I was away on vacation (and unconnected to the 'net) for 1-1/2 weeks. I need to get caught up. Did you do a full replace of the Abramoff article with your Refacted version? I want to make additions/edits/etc., in the correct place. Thanks! Sholom 13:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply on my page, I replied there instead of here, since there is where you left the comment. (Should I have replied here?). In any event, I look forward to your response -- Sholom 16:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for cleanup

Thanks for cleaning up the vandal dropping on my talk page. I seem to be doing good at upsetting people this morning. :) --StuffOfInterest 13:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

NetVision IPs

Yup I guess your right, the only way to really track him down would be to get query the ip, but no cares that much.--M4bwav 21:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The History of Abramoff

Fantastic work, finding the initial article. The amazing thing, that I don't think the public is aware of, is that Abramoff was actually under a lot of scrutiny for a long time there were a lot of people who had a good idea of what he was up to. But they didn't drop the hammer, until the situation got to out of control.--M4bwav 04:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I edited your comment

I don't think that WP:AGF is ever thrown out the window, but I know what you mean. I've struggled with this too. As long as this individual responds respectfully and rationally, then we should do the same. If they become disrespectful, we should either ignore or remove the disrespect, and refocus the discussion on the actual issue at hand (the content of the article). Dwelling on past actions only keeps us from moving onward and past this issue. KWH 20:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Word, I'm not a hater I'm a.., yeah, I usually skip out on flame wars. I don't think there will be many more problems in the future since there are so many admins watching the page anyway. Perhaps the dude will chill out, and find some evidence to support his view point.--M4bwav 20:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Jack Abramoff Edits

Kwh wrote: Your comment betrays the fact that your own intention in editing is to criticize Israel, not inform the reader about Jack Abramoff. And I find it laughably ironic that, in trying to keep the article focused on the subject matter at hand, I'm accused of anti-semitism and pro-semitism appeasement simultaneously. Guess I'm doing something right.

My intent was not to criticize Israel but to document and tell an important part of the Abramoff story--where some of his ill-gotten funds went and why they went there. That is legitimate information for the article even if some people don't like it. By the way, I never said or insinuated that you are engaging in "pro-semitism." I have no idea what you motives are but judging by your talk entries my guess is that philo-Semitism is not one of them or at least not the main one.

As for your conclusion, "Guess I'm doing something right." This is fallacious reasoning on your part. The name of the fallacy you have fallen victim to is the golden mean fallacy or fallacy of moderation.--DieWeibeRose 07:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:DieWeibeRose. KWH 18:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:DieWeibeRose.--DieWeibeRose 11:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I noticed there is a "Category: Articles lacking sources" at the bottom of Talk:Jack Abramoff. I find that kind of weird. First off, it's on the Talk page, not the main article. Secondly, there are plenty of sources on the main article. I would have removed it, but I am a fairly new wikipedian, and don't know the rules/etiquette surrounding that category. Please advise? Sholom 13:59, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

As to your most recent edit of the pic -- WADR (and I mean that becuase I've enjoyed working with you) -- I'm not sure what the point of it was. In particular, "Abramoff cut an imposing figure in a dark black trenchcoat and matching hat." seems POV. -- Sholom 15:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Whoo hey Wiki drama (SpinnWebe AfD)

Wow, thanks for the research, KWH...though really, now that he's gotten his pound of flesh I don't think all that was necessary. But I think even the main DFC article cinches it because it says "SpinnWebe...uses Keane's cartoons".

I didn't even remember I was in the Washington Post for the Nipple Server. Huh. Did you LexisNexis this, or something? --Spinn 04:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

KWH, I like your point about Misplaced Pages being weak on web history. There are a lot of sites (like Mirsky's) that have virtually sunk into a black hole now. I guess the Misplaced Pages way of dealing with this is to start a Wikiproject? If there was something to urge the history-gathering process on a bit, I'd sure be glad to help. Zompist 21:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

SpinnWebe

Why did you add a speedy deletion template back to SpinnWebe? There is currently a huge discussion of the notability of the article at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/SpinnWebe, that also explains why {{db-repost}} is not applicable. It's only got one more day before that AfD is closed, so unless you're anxious, maybe you can let consensus run its course. KWH 00:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Articles that have been previously deleted by consensus may be eligible for speedy deletion under CSD:G4. Since this is disputed, I have no problem leaving it to AFD. Stifle 00:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I would point out that the article was not substantially the same per CSD:G4, since sources were added which show notability per WP:WEB. KWH 02:58, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately as I'm not an admin, I could not determine that. Stifle 09:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I understand. Thank you. KWH 12:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

RFC conversation

I have responded on my talk page. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Image:James-rouse.gif

Hey thanks with that image. I think it preety clear by now that the user does not understand fair use, and is more intrested in just deleting the files. If you would not mind, i might need your help with several other images. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:40, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Jack Abramoff image

Now that is an appropriate use of fair use. Good work! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:16, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Does Crown Copyright apply in the U.S.? I know nothing of this issue. - Ta bu shi da yu 11:23, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds complex. My take is that we need to define Crown Copyright better, however it's probably best to treat it as a non-free license and use fair use as per normal to cover ourselves. This means fair use rationales, use the sparingly, etc. - Ta bu shi da yu 22:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You realise, of course, that what you are asking me for is how a U.S. court will apply the laws of different countries in the U.S.? The question is: does the U.S. recognise Crown copyright, given that the U.S. is not part of the Commonwealth. After all, the content is currently being stored in Florida, and yet the license being used is a law that does not immediately apply in the U.S.. I don't believe we even deal with this in enforcement of foreign judgments :-) Interestingly, however, our article Private international law does cover this very topic... However, is there case law that applies to Crown Copyright? Is there are treaty between England and the U.S. that covers intellectual property rights? I would imagine there is. If there is, and it covers Crown Copyright, then we could say that "This images is licensed (bad word, I know) under crown copyright, which is recognised under U.S. law." Have you considered asking WP:RD or WP:HELP? - Ta bu shi da yu 04:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the question you ask is not easy to answer. You must take into account extra-terratoriality, treaties and conflicts of law. And IANAL. - Ta bu shi da yu 21:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

COTW

Hey, can you please consider voting at Misplaced Pages:Collaborations_of_the_Week/History_of_the_World_Wide_Web for the History of the World Wide Web article. Thanks! — Wackymacs

Controversy on Rumsfeld Controversy

Thanks for stepping in on the Donald Rumsfeld page, though I'm not sure how much it will help. It seems that this guy just has an axe to grind about Rummy and doesn't understand the idea of a reference article. Him not having a registered User ID doesn't make working with him easy, either. Anyway, thanks. ka1iban 15:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I took your advice and went to the Cabal; http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-03-17_Donald_Rumsfeld#Request_Information We'll see where it goes from there... ka1iban 15:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I made a mistake and removed the Rumsfeld issue from arbitration. Now I'm thinking of putting it back. But can they really help with this? Can this guy be reasoned with at all? ka1iban 15:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot

SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways, from comparing articles that need work to other articles you've edited, to choosing articles randomly (ensuring that all articles with cleanup tags get a chance to be cleaned up). It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Misplaced Pages better -- thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from ForteTuba, SuggestBot's caretaker.

P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on the SuggestBot request page. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- SuggestBot 13:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

COTW Project

You voted for History of the World Wide Web, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. PDXblazers 19:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma moved

Hi, I changed the AfD on Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma to an WP:RfD instead, and copied the votes; it is, after all, a redirect. --MJ 08:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff template

See my reply to you, on my talk page. Merecat 21:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

See 2nd reply, my talk. Merecat 08:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff image

I'm sorry, just working from WP:Copyright Problems, I didn't know the wider context regarding the image's deletion listing. Had I known I would have been reluctant to go ahead with deleting the image. I was basing my decision on the simple principle of fair use requiring no free alternatives, but as you say, there are wider considerations (commentary on the hat etc.) Mark83 21:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Cyde and Cite(.php)

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		Baliff, smack his peepee! Will (@) T 22:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Map of South Africa

Thank you so much for that, I really appreciate your effort, don't know how you did it so fast. Cheers! Philc _TC 18:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you for the barnstar. I've been on Misplaced Pages since August 2004, and yours is the first barnstar I've ever received. I'm actually quite grateful. =-) — Mike •  16:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you for your comments on WP:ANI. I really can't tell you how very much I appreciate that sort of a statement. I've put a lot of work into Misplaced Pages and not gotten a lot of that sort of comments, and I gotta tell you, it's like a drink of water to a Sahara-crossin' man. — Mike •  00:55, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

TWS

Not really sure what you want me to contribute. She has a moral/belief system that is incompatible with the rules of wikipedia. In my phone conversation she made it clear that she believed it's ok to make a personal attack in response to a personal attack against her. When she was blocked for doing that she felt the admin who blocked her was in the wrong. She will never be a happy contributor. ---J.S (t|c) 15:13, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

More scandals

A few independant thoughts:

• I asked User:John Broughton if he would join me in attempting to write an article on the potential scandal between Congressman Lewis, the lobby firm started by Lowery, etc. We started with just a data collection dump into a temp area, at User_talk:John_Broughton/Lewis-Lowery-Shockey-White_lobbying_controversy, and from that have started to make an article at User talk:John Broughton/Jerry Lewis - Lowery lobbying firm controversy. As I was writing this morning, I noticed that User:User At Work had created an entry for him, so I just alerted him to the project. This seems similar to the project you did with Jack Abramoff, so, I wanted to alert you to this project, too. We were thinking of "going public" on Friday.

• If you're not interested in yet a whole other huge scandal (in terms of "players", etc., it rivals Abramoff in scope, imho), there is still one Abramoff story that has not yet been written about much here -- and that is the Marianas Islands. If you're interested in that, I'd like to help/be involved/etc.

• Yet another huge scandal is the Ohio Workers fund. Coingate is apparently only part of the story, that is enveloping a huge part of the Ohio Republican leadership. (I have some ideas at User:Sholom#To_Do_List).

-- Sholom 15:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This Legal Times article says that "Roger Stillwell, the desk officer for the Mariana Islands at the U.S. Department of the Interior who dealt closely with disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff, is expected to plead guilty to a misdemeanor count of false certification, his attorney confirmed Wednesday." I think the time has come for a Marianas Islands article. I've left a similar note to User:John Broughton) -- Sholom 19:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

You wrote: Thanks for the heads up, I have been somewhat busy with things off-wiki but will try to get up to speed on these matters. I've also been interested in creating maps (know any articles that need a map?)

I'm going to start with a "data dump" at Jack Abramoff/CNMI. FYI: this evening I am going on vacation for a week and will have no access on-line until next Wednesday. -- Sholom 13:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff "Scandal" vs "Controvery"

Please see this request to change the name. -- Sholom 13:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Comments

Your latest post to the What Really Happened AfD said what I've been trying to allude to over several posts much more succintly. Good show.--Isotope23 18:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I was just going to drop you a note complimenting your excellent work on that page, but Isotope beat me to it. I'm glad that you were willing to take the time and explain that an encyclopedia has standards. You said it well :) --Doc Tropics 05:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Time Cover Abramoff.jpg)

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:Time Cover Abramoff.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. — Rebelguys2 05:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar for you

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		For your funny comment on the Eon8 deletion review. BJK 21:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

your opinion, please

I'd appreciate your opinion on matters in the Discussion of article "Dissident Voice". Thank you. Ste4k 16:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Pic

Bro, i dont get why you removed those logos. If your problem is that they are JPG, its not valid since they are saved in JPG as the original format: nothing is lost and nothing would be gained by having them made non-jpg.--Striver 22:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... im starting to see your point. Hm.... "reasonably familiar". Its tricky. Im sure its not "reasonably familiar ", but rather, "reasonably familiar ", right? --Striver 22:45, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

First image on web

Thanks for the note. I'm not a techie guy, so I defer to your clearly much better knowledge about the technology. I get the sense from reading the Cernette picture website that the claim being made is simply about photographs, and that the "first image on the web" line was more something written by the press reporting it or paraphrasing "first picture". "First Image" is a more sweeping suggestion than "first photo" or even "first picture" (I think its a bit illogical that TBL would choose the first image to be a scanned colour photo (rather something simple like an already computerized CERN logo). Obviously, please free to modify my statement to better reflect the technical history in the context of what TBL is stating on his page (which I was taking literally, without any context knowledge of my own) Bwithh 07:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

3arabworld.jpg

Hello, you have sent me a message that you had to remove the image "3arabworld.jpg", i need an image of the Arab world and i want it to be used in the template please, can you some how help me with that plz? MARVEL 12:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the map you have made.. Image:Map of League of Arab States countries.png but this map wasnt exactly what i want,please will you make a map of the Arab world that include "Israel",Western Sahara, Eritria and the coast of iran¹ and exclude comors i want all Arab countries to be given green colors.

¹ http://www.al-ahwaz.com/AhwazHistory/documents/images_doc/ahwaz_arab_map.jpg

My best wishes MARVEL 20:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Ahmadinejad pic

thumb|200px|right

Hello,

What is the copyright status of this picture? Tewfik 07:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The picture appears to be created and copyrighted by the Iranian Student News Agency and Hamed Noori. Although a US court would theoretically not uphold a copyright suit, Jimbo has indicated that we should respect the foreign copyright nonetheless (here). I would say that it should be used according to standard fair use policy, with the {{fairusein}} tag and appropriate Help:Image page#Fair use rationale. It's respectful to the rights of the author, and it's what would be expected if Iran had a democratic revolution tomorrow and joined the free world. KWH 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)