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Steverci

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by User:Jaqeli

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Jaqeli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Administrator imposing the sanction

Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

diff

Statement by Jaqeli

During this period of time I've contributed to some very good articles and created some quality ones. I can say I am really an experienced Wikipedian and I can assure you no past mistakes will take place anymore. My current TBAN though stops me to create many good Georgian articles because many of them have some kind of Armenian relations as well because of Georgian-Armenian relations are huge and deep and they count several millennia. I recognize my past mistakes of edit-warring and being a bit non-cooperative with Armenian Wikipedians which I no more will be like if you give me a chance again by lifting my current TBAN. I will engage with Armenian users and will cooperate in a calm manner in the interests of English Misplaced Pages. I believe having a Georgian Wikipedian like me also would greatly contribute as well. I by all means learned on my mistakes and I am ready to get back. I recognize all my past mistakes and now I am more aware how interacting with everyone is important. I will be cooperative and open for the common good of EnWiki. I have more than 20,000 edits, I am an experienced user registered back in 2011, I've made many contributions to English Misplaced Pages, I've made Good Articles, written many articles, expanded many etc. I have years of experience on English Misplaced Pages and I deserve a second chance and just because many Georgian articles can have some marginal Armenian connections I should be able to edit them as now my TBAN stops me in my contribution. There can be new information, pictures, charts, maps, sources etc. that can be added and because of my TBAN I cannot do so. I promise I will work with Armenian users and will be cooperative in every way possible. Right now because of my TBAN I cannot work on any major Georgian article because many may have marginal and minor Armenian connections for historical reasons as we are long-time neighbors. There's many I can do to contribute as I've done in the past. Admin Sandstein declined my appeal and I am bringing this appeal to other Admins who I hope will understand my request to cancel and lift this ban from me. I can do many good for the English Misplaced Pages as I've done in the past and me as a Georgian Wikipedian which aren't that many here can be of a great help in Georgia-related articles. I hope those other Admins who know me or remember me would give me one last chance and cancel this TBAN from me. Thank you. Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

@Sandstein: I understand you are an experienced admin and you no more trust users like me especially when you see my past but please be assured that if this last chance is given I will definitely keep my word. If I do not keep my word I understand the fact that I will be banned forever and I will quit wikipedia. Please also see Georgian inscriptions list as I've told you in your TP I am working on those articles and created some in these days. You rightfully thought I disrupted the page but please be sure it is not the case. I've just made it a disambig page as there are many Georgian inscriptions to be added in the future which I will do certainly as I will work on them. @OccultZone: These 4 years or so I am mostly contributing to Georgia-related articles and because of my TBAN it is literally impossible for me to contribute into any major Georgia-related articles and that is why my activity was and is very low. @Richwales: I have a great respect for you as an admin and I fully understand that if this last chance is given to me I will no more screw with it and will keep my word. I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page and that will be the only way to handle such issues out. If I don't follow my word you personally can ban me from Misplaced Pages forever. @My very best wishes: I got this TBAN because of my aggressive and noncooperative attitude towards the origin section of Georgian scripts which I do recognize as a mistake which I made in the past. There is no other problems with script-related ones with me. I've made huge contributions and made GAs like script-related Georgian scripts article for example. There will be no problems from my side anymore as I fully understand the result that this can be my last chance so I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page for solving such issues that got my TBAN'd. So there is no reason to keep me out from script-related articles as such. Please also see the part concerning to Georgian inscriptions in the part of my reply to Admin Sandstein. @Kober: Thank you. I look forward working with you again and thanks for your support. Jaqeli 11:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: I fully agree. Jaqeli 12:50, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Richwales: The point of my appeal here is not the modification of my current TBAN but I want it to be lifted and canceled from me entirely. I don't want to have any restrictions editing Misplaced Pages. As I've said per your suggestion I'd take any disputes to dispute resolution page and I will no more edit war at all and if I won't keep my word for it I will be banned forever. I want to be entirely TBAN-free what will give me a chance to edit any article I will want to starting from Georgian language, scripts, inscriptions, archaeology, history, culture, religion etc. Jaqeli 22:02, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Starship.paint: @My very best wishes: Thanks for your support. Jaqeli 22:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Newyorkbrad: @Callanecc: There are lots of articles I'd edit so how can I list all of them. For example I'd edit Georgian scripts Asomtavruli, Nuskhuri, Mkhedruli sections to bring up new data and sources if I will have. I'd like to participate on its talk page as well because mostly all the concerns or questions on TP there are left unanswered and native Georgian like me can be of a huge help for Wiki itself. Another example can be Rhadamistus. I want to rewrite the article again to meet the GA status standards. I've made lots of contributions there as well though some more work should be done. Another can be Pharasmanes II of Iberia or David IV of Georgia. If I just wanted to replace or add a new picture there I can be banned again and that's just because these monarchs had Armenian wifes. There are many many articles and cannot really list them all here I hope you understand that. I just want to be TBAN-free and don't want to have any restrictions on me. Again as Richwales said, I do understand that if I will get back to edit-warring as I did in the past I will be banned forever from this site. Jaqeli 16:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: Right now I'd like to edit: Georgian scripts, Rhadamistus, Pharnavaz I of Iberia and Pharasmanes II of Iberia. Jaqeli 10:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

@Richwales: I am not going to make any controversial edits to those articles. But if there will be any dispute I will bring it to the TP of the articles and will try to handle the problem out with other editors in a calm and cooperative manner. Please be sure that you won't ever see me edit warring. I will not edit war for sure. Jaqeli 17:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Sandstein

I recommend declining the appeal. I already lifted the ban once and had to reinstate it because of recurring problems. I am not convinced that Jaqeli can now competently edit in controversial topic areas. Please also refer to the discussion on my talk page about Jaqeli's prior appeal to me.  Sandstein  08:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

After looking at the two AE requests that resulted in the ban, they do seem to have the issue of language and writing in common. So I guess if the ban is to be modified, it could be rephrased to cover "the past and present languages and alphabets used in Armenia or Azerbaijan". But since Jaqeli still hasn't told us which specific article the ban prevents them from editing, and given that just a look at their block log doesn't bode well for their future as an editor, I'm not optimistic that loosening the ban will benefit the project.  Sandstein  13:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I've been asked to comment on Jaqeli's intentions to edit four articles. My general approach is that I dislike micromanaging sanctions; either we trust somebody to work competently in a controversial topic or we don't. In this case, I think the editor's past record indicates that we probably shouldn't, but if other admins here believe it's worth a try then they're welcome to adjust the sanction however they deem appropriate.  Sandstein  21:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by OccultZone

I have got Sandstein's UTP on my watchlist, I was in touch with the appeal.

Apart from the points that Sandstein has noted, I would say that the activity level of Jaqeli has gradually decreased since the reinstatement of topic ban and he has made about 291 edits since August 8, 2014. For showing that he can edit constructively and collaboratively in different areas, I believe that more activity is required. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

The proposal of Richwales looks promising and Jaqeli has agreed to it. That might be an option. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 11:42, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kober

I've been in dispute with User:Jaqeli over certain areas of Georgia-related topics, but, in my case, he has been cooperative and, in fact, much helpful. Given the quality work he has done for Misplaced Pages, I would support lifting a topic ban and giving him the last chance to continue his full-time activity. --Kober 15:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Richwales

I've interacted with Jaqeli numerous times in the past. I'm not going to take a position, one way or the other, as to whether he deserves (or can handle) a relaxation or lifting of his current topic ban; however, I do think it's worth noting that his current ban effectively keeps him out of virtually all Georgia-related articles (since connections between Georgian and Armenian topics are pervasive). Since Jaqeli's primary (exclusive?) interest is in topics related to his home country of Georgia, it's not surprising to me at all that he has done very little editing here since his topic ban was imposed (for fear of being seen to have violated the ban if nothing else), so I don't think his low activity should be held against him. I am concerned about Jaqeli's past misbehaviour regarding edit warring, blocks, etc., and I do feel that if the community decides to give him one more chance, it should be made extremely clear to him that this will absolutely be his last chance — he must take any disputes promptly to accepted dispute resolution procedures and accept resolution outcomes gracefully, and he must accept that any future sanctions will almost certainly take the form of an indefinite / permanent site ban. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how a topic ban on the past and present languages used in Armenia or Azerbaijan would affect things here. Alphabets, yes, but languages? AFAIK, no one seriously argues that the Georgian language is related to Armenian or Azeri — but forbidding Jaqeli to edit in any article that mentions the languages of Georgia's geographical neighbours seems a bit much. @Sandstein: are there some specific reasons you had in mind for drawing the language issue (as opposed to the alphabet/script issue) into your proposal for a revised topic ban?

And @Jaqeli: I think it would be helpful for people here if you could list a few articles which you believe you could make constructive contributions to, but which you are unable or unwilling to touch for fear of being seen to have violated your current topic ban. Since we are discussing your current ban, BTW, it is my understanding that mentioning articles in this manner, in this specific forum, and possibly also including very brief and neutral explanations of why you believe working on a given article might be seen as a topic ban violation, would not in and of itself constitute a violation of your current ban. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 21:13, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Jaqeli: Thanks for your feedback regarding which articles you would like to work on. Some people (myself possibly included) may be worried that if you go back to working at Georgian scripts or Pharnavaz I of Iberia, you may get entangled once again in the never-ending disputes over the origin of the Georgian alphabet which got you into so much trouble in the past. If you do get permission to work on articles such as these, how will you avoid those earlier problems? — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kansas Bear

Having edited in the Caucasus region, I have "interacted" with Jaqeli in a limited capacity. I believe he does do good work, however due to Georgia's location, the Caucasus is not an easy area to edit. I think, in the long run, Richwales idea would be best for Jaqeli. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Jaqeli

After quickly looking at this, I think this topic ban could at least be changed and narrowed by limiting it to the subjects related to Caucasian alphabets. I think this is main POV of Jaqeli. Then his strange editing here discussed with Sandstein would be covered by the new restriction, but allowed him editing any Georgia-related subjects not related to the alphabets. In addition, banning someone from Georgian subjects on the basis of Armenia-Azerbaijan sanctions (both are different countries) might be a little questionable. My very best wishes (talk) 23:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

• That ^ sounds reasonable. Jaqeli seems very aware that this is the last chance, let's give it to him. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 11:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

• I think the suggestion by Sandstein it could be rephrased to cover "the past and present languages and alphabets used in Armenia or Azerbaijan" is reasonable. As about the future behavior by Jaqeli, I never interacted with this user before and therefore can not predict his behavior. The suggestion by Richwales also seem reasonable. I would suggest to give Jaqueli another chance. My very best wishes (talk) 17:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Jaqeli

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Richwales' proposed loosening seems worth a try. @Jaqeli: are you willing to agree to it? I'd like to hear from other admins, though, and I wonder if you have any thoughts on the suggestion, Sandstein. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:12, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
• Jaqeli should kindly explain in a little more detail what articles he would edit if allowed to. Subject to a reasonable listing, I agree with Sandstein that the topic-ban should not be lifted in toto, but I also agree it might be possible to modify it in a way that would allow Jaqueli to edit within his subject-matter expertise without renewed problems. When I was an arbitrator deciding "X vs. Y" ethnic/nationalist dispute cases, I would often think and write that many of the people from (or siding with) place X who were getting into trouble on the "X vs. Y" articles, could be very good, knowledgeable contributions if they would focus only on X and forget about Y. That might be the case here. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:43, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
• I'd probably be inclined to go with Richwales's proposed loosening but only allow them to edit a set of specific articles for a few months so we can start to see how they'd operate. If that works with no issues then I'm happy to go with Richwales's wording on the full lot, if there are issues we'd need to look at whether to just go back to indef TBAN or a long block. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 23:36, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
  • @Jaqeli: Just give us 5-10 that you'd like to edit now, it's just a trial basis to see how you go, so just any you would like to work on first. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
• Any positive/negative comments to Jaqeli being given an exemption to edit Georgian scripts, Rhadamistus, Pharnavaz I of Iberia and Pharasmanes II of Iberia for 3 months, at which stage (around then) they should appeal to AE again? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Gerda Arendt

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Francis Schonken (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:58, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted : "Gerda Arendt is indefinitely restricted from: (...) making more than two comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article..."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(all diffs are edits by Gerda Arendt:)

1. 19:39, 6 April 2014 (edit summary: "...second and last contribution to this discussion") – "...That I would answer the "infobox yes or no" question with "yes, why not?" is known enough..." (at Talk:Frédéric Chopin)
2. 13:24, 2 February 2015 adding "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || style="background: red" | person || 25 Aug" to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Discussions and reverts
3. 07:46, 15 February 2015 "Support infobox (repeating from 2014, I am restricted to not make a further comment in the matter)" (at Talk:Frédéric Chopin#Discuss infobox yes or no)
4. 09:38, 9 March 2015 – changing "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || person || 25 Aug" to "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || person || style="background: red" | 25 Aug" (emphasis added) at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Discussions and reverts

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. Date Explanation
2. Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Discussed the inclusion of the infobox in the Frédéric Chopin article three or four times, on at least two talk pages. I have brought to Gerda's attention before (e.g. " ... please stop discussing individual article's infobox inclusions on various pages not directly connected to the article's talk page (e.g. here) as it are "comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article" per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted. I think I explained this before." ) that probably the discussions *on individual articles* at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox (e.g. ) are to be seen as separate counts in the ArbCom remedy cited above, and am now submitting it here to let others decide.

inserted example of bringing this to Gerda's attention before. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

--Francis Schonken (talk) 10:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Gerda Arendt

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Gerda Arendt

Wir danken dir, Gott, wir danken dir, BWV 29, GA as of today, thank you, Dr. Blofeld, but only 14 of 31 GAs in Classical compositions are by me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:55, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@SchroCat: I repeat my simple request of yesterday, which was not about infoboxes:

I just welcomed a new user who seems to come from a Japanese background. I recommend that you address such people on their talk page in very simple English because they may have no idea that article history and edit summaries even exist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Please go to the new user's talk and explain why you reverted their third edit in this Misplaced Pages. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

The number of emails I found in my archive as sent to SchroCat is 2. I am willing to publish them completely with the exception of one too personal line about another editor. Quoting from the first, sent 4 March 2015 in response to one from him:

As you know I am all for infoboxes but don't feel guilty of ever having "forced" one, and certainly not in "all articles". That myth is perpetuated, sadly so. What can we do?

What can we do? I can see now how pointy my second email was because the subject was "laugh". I should have known that one has to stay seriuz in infobox matters. I envy a bit people who can say: I've never taken part in the infobox wars. The not taking part in them is one of my favorite parts of Misplaced Pages - I feel like the nurse on the battleground and will not leave ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@T. Canens: You brought up a very interesting question: what the restriction is meant to be. I confess that I have lived with it for a while now, and generally find it helpful to walk away after two comments (example pictured), but why I was restricted I still don't know and stopped asking. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Andy Mabbett

• The 2 February and 9 March edits are part of a log Gerda maintains. They are not part of a discussion.
• It would be stretching a point to suggest that the edits made on 6 April 2014 and over ten months later on 15 February 2015 are part of the same discussion
• The above is especially true when the April 2014 discussion was archived in October 2014.

We saw in the recent review of the infobox case how some editors use existing sanctions to harass the affected editors. Is this another case of the same thing? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Postscript: The 15 March edit consists solely of Gerda adding style="background: red" to change the background colour of a table cell, and updating a time stamp of not the time of her edit Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:36, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Re "Main editors": It is stated here, in relation to debates about whether an article should include an infobox, that ""ArbCom has ruled... that editors should defer to those who created and developed the article.". I find such an assertion to be bogus, but perhaps that impression has in the past been given? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by SchroCat

I have had reason to ask Gerda to refrain from commenting on my talk page recently (and to stop emailing me about IBs.) While Chopin may or may not be a valid matter, the three comments in Talk:Laurence Olivier#Infobox (, and ) are a breach. Although I don't think the related comment on my talk page is relevant, that on Ian Rose's page may be a fourth. I haven't done a search of the user's edit history to see if there are any further comments elsewhere.

In relation to the recent William Burges discussion, although Gerda kept to two comments on the talk page ( and ), this third comment is about the IB, and is borderline (or underhand) canvassing. This (fourth) is also about the Burges IB, as is this (fifth) and this (sixth). To crown it all, and where I think she really has overstepped the mark into borderline harassment, I was not happy to receive an email from her trying to discuss the Burges IB.

In relation to a different IB matter, I recieved this (which is about a user who added an infobox that I removed), and an email containing a rather pointy and incorrect message, again about infoboxes. As you can see from the thread on my talk page, I have had to ask Gerda not to post on my talk page, or email me about IBs (although why I should have to I really don't know).

I think there is enough here that ArbCom should look a little more closely about this user's interaction with regard to infobox discussions.– SchroCat (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Cailil, we will have to disagree about the Burges comments, particularly the fact that they are all soft canvassing. The comment to Graham Beards (who opposed an IB) is an extension of the conversation, however you try and cut it and that is before you take into account the emails to me about two separate IBs. - SchroCat (talk) 18:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Rich Farmbrough, I hope you have some evidence to back up your rather tawdry accusation below? I look froward (with neither hope, nor expectation) in seeing you strike out the slur (and you managed to avoid the bit that half the reply was all about the inclusion of the IB, her third in that thread) before continuing the matter on Ian Rose's talk page. As to it being a "direct allegation of WP:OWN", that is laughable, as can be seen from the context. - SchroCat (talk) 08:57, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Cailil, "does not give others licence to goad them": as per my comment above, please provide proof that is the case, or strike. You too have also managed to avoid that half the reply (on her third comment in the thread was all about the inclusion of the IB, which is in breach of the restrictions. There is a singular lack of GF here, especially as we are discussin a user who has gamed the restrictions upon them, and has turned to harassment by email and on talk pages to continue their discussions. This is not a fit or appropriate way for an editor under restriction to behave. - SchroCat (talk) 10:40, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

"You and Ian Rose made remarks about an article's "Main editors" as an appeal to authority and as a means of excluding Gerda Arendt's point of view on the infoboxes": a deeply, deeply flawed view of the thread;

• "You accused Gerda Arendt of WP:OWNERSHIP". Utter balls, as can be seen from the context;
• I'm glad you've mentioned the emails: you've been happy to act as judge jury and executioner without the evidence in front of you and with a rather peculiar take on the harrassment, gaming and canvassing that has been going on. I will indeed take it directly to one of the Arbs: I suspect they will be more level headed than you have been. - SchroCat (talk) 12:32, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

Two of the Olivier comments are not about the inclusion or exclusion of that infobox at all, but the somewhat odd premise being promoted that the decision is up to the "main editors" of the article. The last one, be it noted, is in response to a direct allegation of WP:OWN by ShroCat.

It is disappointing to see this enforcement request being brought by Frances on clearly spurious grounds. It is also disappointing to see SchroCat's statement including the Olivier diffs. Making WP:OWN (or any other) accusations against an editor you know cannot respond, is poor form. If the intent was to bait Gerda into a response it is even worse.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

Statement by Ritchie333

Notwithstanding Gerda's "go ahead punk, make my day" remark, the three comments in a row were made over a week ago and the debate came to a natural end. There doesn't seem to be anything that requires actively enforcing. Ritchie333 23:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Try as I might, I see no conceivable violation of her restriction. Even counting a !vote as being a "comment" which I find a tad iffy. Calling a font-colour change a "comment" is not impressive. Collect (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Ched

I am glad to see that "boomerang" has been mentioned. I've always wondered how Arbcom managed to restrict 2 editors on the pro-infobox side, and yet only remind those removing them. Especially given that Gerda had never been blocked, and multiple members of the exclusive "composer" group have multiple blocks for edit warring. In fact, about the only "warnings" I can recall before the 2013 case involved editors removing infoboxes with "do not revert MY edit". Now I have no doubt that many of said composer group would like nothing better than to be rid of Gerda and the scandalous idea of having an infobox in any of "their" articles, but I pesky old WP:Local consensus thing has been a stumbling block in so many efforts. The (very) recent efforts to remove Pigsonthewing from all things infobox resulted in there actually being fewer restrictions in his particular case.

I know that Gerda won't "appeal" the 2013 case, so I'll skip that paragraph.

The hounding and harassment that has come from a few select members of that composer group does indeed need to be considered though. And while I'm content to sit up here, I ask the reviewing admins to consider this. — Ched :  ?  21:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by <someone else>-Discussion_concerning_Gerda_Arendt">

Result concerning Gerda Arendt

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Looking at the evidence presented here there is no case to answer. The diffs presented show 2 comments and Gerda Arendt's awareness of their restriction. I note this diff by Francis Schonken where they closed the discussion (with what reads like a !supervote) they claim that Gerda Arendt contributed twice too, and then opened this thread. These actions make this request look like Francis Schonken is trying to remove Gerda Arendt from a content dispute via Arbitration Enforcement. The whole situation may be worth looking at but the proximate matter of Gerda Arendt breaking their two comment limit is a non-issue with the current evidence--Cailil 12:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• @SchroCat: The William Burges comments are also not actionable IMHO. Gerda Arendt is restricted from discussing the inclusion/exclusion of infoboxes not from discussing how they are treated in those discussions in semi-whisical threads on user talk pages (which this is) or discussing the boxes generally. What they cannot keep posting about is inclusion/removal. That said I don't think the behaviour in the diffs you're presented is eitehr positive or constructive and Gerda Arendt certainly is line-stepping here but alone these are not actionable. The Olivier diffs however do change the complexion of that, and significantly. I'd like some more sysops to comment before I go further here--Cailil 18:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• On further thought I don't believe the Olivier diffs are actionable - I do think as Rich notes above that there is significant "poking" going on here and frankly I'm more concerned about that than I am about this 3 non-issues. Just because a user is subject to an ArbCom ban does not give others licence to goad them. Again I'd like to see other sysops commenting but my inclination is to close without action--Cailil 10:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• SchroCat: WP:ARE is not a debate. You and Ian Rose made remarks about an article's "Main editors" as an appeal to authority and as a means of excluding Gerda Arendt's point of view on the infoboxes. Gerda Arendt's comments are about that conduct towards them not the boxes per se. Your remark to Gerda Arendt directly before the diff you suggest as their 3rd comment is quite inappropriate in the context of this enforcement request. You accused Gerda Arendt of WP:OWNERSHIP while being equally guilty of the same rhetoric yourself (which BTW looks to me like stewardship rather than ownership from both Ian and Gerda Arendt) and then want them punished for responding to that accusation. You also are crying out about a lack of AGF while failing to shouw it yourself, repeatedly here in this discussion. Now, I am quite happy to close this immediately with no action against Gerda Arendt and a WP:Boomerang for yourself and Francis Schonken if you want to keep digging.
  WRT emails - I suggest you submit evidence in private to an Arbitrator regarding those. Bandying about accusations of misconduct without hard evidence could be seen to fall under WP:ASPERSIONS. Furthermore I will advise you strongly that if your hands are equally unclean, i.e if those emails are about conduct rather than about inclusion/removal of infoboxes then you are ill advised to bring them up--Cailil 12:15, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• I agree with you completely, Cailil. This looks like a vexatious request and, combined with the supervote closure, looks like an attempt to use AE as a weapon to eliminate an opponent. It's the sort of thing the used to happen a awful lot in the Israel-Palestine topic area until we started sanctioning people for it. It's also worth noting that ArbCom recently considered authorising discretionary sanctions on infobox disputes; the proposal didn't pass for various reasons, but most of the arbs seemed to agree that there was still disruptive behaviour going on in relation to infoboxes. Thus I endorse some sort of boomerang action against the filer. Procedural note: I've recused in previous infobox-related AE requests against Pigsonthewing due to an off-wiki friendship; this is the first request I've seen against another party and I do not believe I am involved with respect to Gerda or infoboxes generally. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
• I also don't see anything actionable here. We may have a diff or two that are open to interpretation in regard to their status as evidence of a topic ban violation, but we should err on the side of caution (i.e., good faith). I fully accept SchroCat's good faith in this matter, but it's clear that Francis Schonken, who has been in more than one disagreement with Gerda and has exhibited various types of battleground tendencies, saw an opportunity to peel a little apple, as the Dutch might say, with Gerda. This ought to be closed and slammed shut, and I am not opposed to at the least a stern warning for Francis Schonken. I'll do a disclaimer too: I don't care for infoboxes, and I know and have worked with every single editor in this thread, including Gerda, and a million other editors--plus, I have warned Francis Schonken for disruptive behavior in December of last year. FWIW. Drmies (talk) 14:59, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• Right so, my proposed wording is: "Closed with no action against User:Gerda Arendt, but User:Francis Schonken is warned for making a vexatious filing at WP:AE about Gerda Arendt and given a final warning to refrain from further battleground behaviour in the topic area covered by the Infoxboxes RfAr ruling." If there are no substantive objections from other sysops then I'll close with this wording after 24 hours.

  Although I'm not proposing action here against SchroCat, frankly I am very disappointed in their conduct on this board clamouring for punishment of GA with such an obvious non-issue (and then raising 3 further non-issues). They would be well advised not to continue in this vein. That said if there have been inappropriate emails sent to them (and for various reasons we cannot be privy to them here on a public board) I fully endorse SchroCat having that kind of conduct reviewed in private--Cailil 21:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• I'm rather concerned about the reading of the two-comment restriction adopted here. The restriction is meant to be a clear-cut, bright-line one, and I don't think fine parsing about whether a comment is going to a subsidiary issue or the main issue in a discussion is helpful. All three of the Olivier comments are related to the primary subject of the discussion - i.e. whether the article should have an infobox - and made in the course of that discussion. That should be more than enough to bring them inside the scope of the restriction. Now, I can see taking no enforcement action as the edits are somewhat stale, but I disagree with Cailil and think they are a violation of the restriction. T. Canens (talk) 04:22, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Hi Timotheus Canens, I had a similar view of the Olivier comments on my first reading, but on reflection I did, and still do, think it's extremely problematic for SchroCat to goad GA into a third comment with an accusation of WP:OWNERSHIP and then cry "foul" - that's the definition of "unclean hands". And on balance I can't in good conscience ignore that. In this context would it be best to issue a reminder to GA that, as you put it their 2 comment restriction is "a clear-cut, bright-line" rule. And that further actions like those at the Olivier article will be sanctioned? However, if we do that IMHO we need to deal with SchroCat's action there too - again a reminder might be ok. Do you have any views on the boomerang against the filer?--Cailil 15:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Cwobeel

Appeal to lift topic ban by Ashtul

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Ashtul

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

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Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 14:36, 7 March 2015 reverting to earlier version.
2. 14:38, 7 March 2015 added additional source with video interview with Drucker.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 11:17, 20 January 2015 - block for 1RR on Carmel (Israeli settlement).
2. 00:47, 28 January 2015 Topic request after an AE case I filled over Nishidani's POVPUSHING which admin saw as retaliation.
3. 19:42, 1 February 2015 - block over also adding info at Shavei Tzion, my grandparents town, about an IDF memorial and a grave of Acre Prison break fighters and on the relevant article (Nothing current or arguable but geographical locations).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

HJ Mitchell, have expressed concern about my ability to keep on editing in the I/P conflict area and thus topic banned me. This came as a result of a message I wrote on his talk page about a revert by Nomoskedasticity who without participating in a talk page conversation reverted my edit.

HJ Mitchell have suggested I will focus on proving I am capable of editing in this area so that is what I will do.

Quick background of the current content dispute - Raviv drucker, a reporter have wrote a tweet that lead to articles such as this this this and many more, which accused him of causing multihomicede and war-crime. About a week later, he published this article and a video interview.

• Haaretz article starts with the words "I apologize, Naftali, sorry, I was wrong" and ends with "There is no doubt - in 1996 you were there that night, in an important Israeli society. But Lieutenant Bennett, where the hell were you all night since you Israeli politics?"
• Nana article states "Drucker highlights that he has no complaints about Bennett as an officer, but only as to the function as a politician. "He was real brave Magellan officer, without cynicism," he says, "but very brave politician, although successful, and that's what is most disappointing. Every node which could tell us the truth, to speak out against things were risking their skin, is Always fear. ""
• The video interview says (my rough translation) "this was a tweet I didn't think about enough where I quote a veteran idf officer who spoke of Bennetts behavior that night. I didn't do a investigation or wrote an article" … "Bennett was probably a brave officer, for real, no cynicism, but he is not a brave politician, successful but not brave which is disappointing" and ends with a Question "would you have tweeted it again?" Answer "No. Or I would have tweeted it with other tweets which would explain what is my opinion and what is the information. I think it is irrelevant to leading position and even if Bennetts was stressed at that time and even if it caused a chain of mistakes it doesn't put on him a moral dent, it was a biographic. In that sense, for that tweet to stand by itself isn't right and not wise".

Other editors have claimed it is ostensible apology, irony, antiphrasis (Nishidani) or sarcasm (HJ Mitchell). They are confusing his current criticism over Bennett's behavior as a minister (in the midst of a heated election season) and accusing him of partiably being reposible for the death of over 100 people "radio call for support was "hysterical" and contributed to the outcome that ensued" as stated by the article. Maybe 'recanted' isn't the best word but doesn't WP:BLP require extra care? How many times a person (Drucker) need to say he made a mistake before his word is taken for it?

Among other conducts I have done lately to prevent WP:WARs, I have initiated an RfD (which concluded with consensus in a few days and effected tens of articles) and an RfC in which, so far, my opinion was supported by 3 editors (and 1 sock), describing the edit I contested as "rampant POV-pushing", "tangential POV laden picture does not belong in this article" and "does not belong in an encyclopedia".

An AE case was filed against me over a revert which was NOT contested and was edited back by mistake. Then, when admins weren't convinced (the case was open for over a week) it was turned over charging me with POVPUSHING over text that is supported by the source with the word 'coexist' not appearing in the original but rather 'a bridge between peoples' or 'this is a chance for Israelis and Palestinians to work together, to talk to one another, to trust one another'. If editors don't agree with one word, why remove the whole statemene? TWICE! (Same editors from Carmel article).

So to sum this up, I am engaging in conversation and actively trying to resolve things. I believe my edits are within the borders of NPOV as I try to use NPOV language. If I have failed before, it happens. It is defiantly not a system or even intentional. In the case of Bennett, it should be mention Drucker recanted/apologized/reexplained this original tweet. I believe HJ Mitchell have made an honest mistake with my topic ban and ask for it to be lifted.

References

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Barkan_Industrial_Park&diff=647612424&oldid=647585051
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Barkan_Industrial_Park&diff=647872466&oldid=647867328

(sorry for going beyond 500 words. There are many quotation included to save you some time).

Respond to admins

@T. Canens: HJ's topic ban was solely based on the Drucker dispute after he decided to sit out the case which I personally asked him to advise on. Would you please respond directly to that? Is Drucker in his voice saying he was wrong about the original accusations not REQUIRED to be mentioned in such WP:BLP info? Ashtul (talk) 10:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Ashtul

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Ashtul

MLK and Malik, you didn't read the links at the top which refers specifically to HJ Mitchell reasoning of the topic ban and where he suggest I may appeal it. About the AE case itself, HJ Mitchell wrote "I'm going to sit this one out" and then moved to close the case based on what I described above. Everything is in the links. Thanks for allowing me to highlight this point. Ashtul (talk) 07:12, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell topic ban in essence is over a content dispute where "the sarcasm in the apology that thread refers to is blindingly obvious" so "that I can quite comfortably comment on it as an admin". As I wrote and demonstrated here in length, HJ Mitchell is wrong. It happens.

If holding ground in case of being right, on topic that is clearly WP:BLP makes one unsuitable to edit on Misplaced Pages then by all means block me all together. Drucker in his voice on the video apologizes but somehow people fail to believe him. The fact he moves right away to attack Bennett's current politics doesn't mean he still think his actions had contributed the the death of 100 people. Ashtul (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

If I understand the history correctly, this was not a ban placed by HJ Mitchell as the action of an individual admin, it was placed by him as the result of an AE discussion among multiple admins. The ban had a provision for reconsideration after 6 months -- so why is this even being considered now, mere days after the ban was placed? It's clearly not timely. BMK (talk) 01:09, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Malik Shabazz

I agree with Beyond My Ken. This appeal should be declined on procedural grounds. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 02:52, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Callanecc

While I'm not technically involved (as I didn't impose the sanction) I'm going to take the careful route and comment here rather than in the result section. While discretionary sanctions are imposed by an individual not by consensus (which is why I could technically comment as uninvolved) I see no reason to overturn the sanction except to say that my reading of the discussion was for a TBAN which expires after six months not an indefinite one, but the sanction is up to the enforcing admin. I would decline the appeal and recommend that they consider appealing again after six months of active editing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cptnono

This comment is primarily based on the procedure. The banning administrator initially opted to sit this one out but saw drama on his talk page and pulled the trigger. I understand that Ashtul has not done great at showing an ounce of humility but the problem with his editing is almost all based on drama filled interactions with one other editor. Nish has had his fair share of issues in the past. Ashtul's topic bans were of much longer lengths than previously dealt out in the topic area. Unless there is a case for sockpuppetry (someone else mentioned it previously), the length was primarily out of admins being sick of the drama. I understand that but I also appreciate that Ashtul has brought up decent points before getting railroaded.

I also don't think Nish needs a reprimand or anything, but it would have been cool if he would have stepped back and taen a deep breath before disregarding Ashtul's points.

Just to be open, I'm actively considering opening up a case for community intervention against another editor who has skirted the policies and guidelines for years now. Although a 6 month topic ban would make me feel a little happy inside I know the project would be better if more novel and level-headed solutions were considered. This whole topic area is broken and it is primarily because a handful of editors who have been around for awhile know how to successfully push their POV, buck the system, and screw with people.Cptnono (talk) 05:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Ashtul

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I take a slightly different view from User:Callanecc here. User:HJ Mitchell can clarify for us, but it seems HJ offered User:Ashtul notice that he could appeal his actions imposing the topic ban or he could accept the topic ban and ask for it to be modified after six months. Otherwise, it seems to me, the topic ban stays in place indefinitely. So the request here seems to be an appeal against the imposition of the ban itself. Commenting narrowly on Ashtul and not on any other editor, I would keep the topic ban in place and reject the appeal. Come back after six months and we will revisit it. JodyB _talk 12:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Procedurally, I have no problem with this appeal. After six months of productive editing in another topic area, I would be happy to re-evaluate the topic ban, but that's not an appeal per se, and if Ashtul wants to contest the topic ban or the grounds for it, then appealing here is appropriate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:01, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Given User:HJ Mitchell's comments I see no problem with this appeal. However this discussion followed by this discussion make it clear that the topic ban is appropriate. I would suggest the appellant speak with HJ Mitchell after the 6 month period. I'm happy for HJ Mitchell to continue to monitor this and approve or decline the topic ban at his discretion. JodyB _talk 11:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
• This appeal is malformed - it uses the request template, not the appeal template - but at this point there's not much point in changing it.

  I agree that the six-month time limit before reconsideration doesn't affect our ability to hear an appeal on whether the topic ban should have been imposed in the first place, but I think the topic ban was validly imposed, and I would decline the appeal. T. Canens (talk) 04:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Thargor Orlando

DHeyward

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning DHeyward

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

MarkBernstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:02, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

DHeyward (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamergate :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Attack

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

I have no idea

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

should be obvious

Notification:

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

DHeyward takes me to task:

Specious and tendentious actions by MarkBernstein to bring a comment from ARCA to enforcement is beyond the pale

But of course my complaint is neither specious nor tendentious. I made a technical inquiry at ARCA regarding an obscurity in their recent decision, explaining why I needed this clarification and requesting Arbcom to clarify their intent. The response has been a coordinated outpouring of vituperation directed at me and urging my immediate banishment.

DHeyward proceeds to lecture Gamaliel on the history of my topic ban, perhaps forgetting that Gamaliel started this entire sorry episode. I am confident that Gamaliel understands every nook and cranny by now. But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there.

DHeyward tars me with making a personal attack on Thargor Orlando at Arbitration Enforcement, but of course Arbitration Enforcement concerns enforcement actions against editors. Editorial misbehavior is the essence of complaints at WP:AE; in contrast, the ARCA discussion did not concern editorial behavior of any kind.

DHeyward has, of course, been an avid proponent of WP:CPUSH and WP:FLAT arguments at Gamergate and related pages. His arguments (if these be arguments) here reflect that, and they should be familiar to administrators and indeed to most who are active there. As time is short, I simply allude to them here.

As some argue that my topic ban extends, or should extend, or should immediately be extended, to preclude remedy, I'm filing this without further delay. I apologize to overworked administrators.

Literary sidenote: DHeyward is now all aflutter over a literary allusion on my talk page. It’s Julius Caesar III.1.278-290: “Domestic fury and fierce civil strife...” Relax folks. (and good grief!) MarkBernstein (talk) 22:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I completely endorse Gamaliel’s proposal, provided related proposals I have discussed with Gamaliel and with HJ Mitchell are honored as well, as I am confident they will be.

With regard to offsite planning: I sent two administrators two offsite links to discussions of proposed attacks on my integrity, twelve hours before those attacks appeared for the first time on-wiki. I have also sent a separate forum post, claiming to have been written by a recently banned editor, explaining how to exploit Misplaced Pages policy along these very lines. The current discussion stems from a news story -- one of many recent news stories -- reporting on the way Gamergate supporters have colluded in their use of Misplaced Pages. Individual Wikipedians may regret these news stories and find them embarrassing, but I did not expect to be faulted for mentioning here what reporters throughout the world consider to be thoroughly established. (This issue has clear implications for the efficacy of Gamaliel’s proposal, obviously. I merely draw attention to this so Gamaliel or others may consider whether new policy may be needed to address this when it arises in some future dispute among other parties.)

I'd like to remind people one last time that this is not merely a content dispute about fringe theories or inbox footnotes: real people are being harassed and actual careers are being destroyed while Misplaced Pages is perverted. I have done what I could to stop it; I have been assured that it will be stopped; in the long run, I am confident that sufficient eyes outside Misplaced Pages have been brought to bear on this area of the project that either Misplaced Pages will learn to protect the victims or it will suffer even greater consequences.

I should like few things better, in fact, than to comply with Gamaliel’s excellent suggestion. MarkBernstein (talk) 14:13, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning DHeyward

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by DHeyward

Another tendentious and pointy request by MarkBernstein. Considering he has mulitple discussions going on at AE, ANI and ARBCA, I think it's time we need to discuss a site ban for MarkBernstein or at least a long block. --DHeyward (talk) 22:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd be interested in seeing any diff of offsite coordination that he accuses me of as I don't participate in any offsite activities regarding Misplaced Pages. Otherwise he's casting aspersions that I know to be false. --DHeyward (talk) 22:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

It appears that MarkBernstein is now here to wreak "Havoc" on the community with these filings. That along with his history of WP:NOTHERE and it may be time to show him the door. Literary sidenote, the quote of 'havoc' in Shakespeare only reinforces WP:NOTHERE and WP:BATTLEGROUND, not alleviate it. --DHeyward (talk) 22:24, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel Please post where I have done anything you have alleged. To be specific, MarkBernstein has filed 2 AE requests, 1 ARBCA request and 1 ANI request as well as posting to Jimbo's talk page since his topic ban. I am not sure where you are getting the impression that this anything more than a 1 sided barrage of filings and it affects more than just THargor Orlando and me. --DHeyward (talk) 00:10, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Ched I can say without reservation that But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there. is simply a lie. I don't participate in any offsite activity regarding WP or gamergate or whatever MarkBernstein is alleging. It's not new that these lies have been stated. There is no evidence to bring as they are simply false. MarkBernstein is "my contrivance" is that I posted a diff of comments he made to two uninvolved admins (apparently this is exactly what Gamaliel is requesting but he has indicated he didn't like the result). I didn't highlight any specific quotes in MBs comments but both admins zeroed in on the the offending portion. Both admins found they were unacceptable and one admin gave MB a 90 day topic ban. None of it was offsite. For that, MB has posted at ANI, ARBCA, and two AE requests which is why we are here. --DHeyward (talk) 02:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel - as I've already been acting in the way you propose and haven't brought any complaints about MarkBernstein to any boards or even discussed it on article talk pages. I brought his comments directly to two uninvolved admins who both agreed they were not civil and both took action. I would not have participated here if I wasn't called to do so but I can agree not to bring any issues to noticeboards as that is what I've already been doing. There is no need for a sanction since the behavior doesn't really exist and it appears this complaint should be closed the same as the one above it. BTW, if you are in possession of "offsite links", please send them. I categorically deny any involvement with any offsite groups that are targeting MarkBernstein or anyone else. --DHeyward (talk) 20:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

This AE request is predicated on the one above it which was closed. Not sure how this one is still valid if the other is not. --DHeyward (talk) 22:46, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MONGO

I do not see a personal attack. I see a diff that merely states an observation. A personal attack might be to call someone an asshole or along those lines.--MONGO 22:10, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

One of the worst arbcom closures appears to be manifesting itself as one of the worst decisions I have ever seen at arbitration enforcement. How ridiculous that DHeyward might face a topic ban for merely pointing out a basic observation of fact. It's way past time to site ban Bernstein and if his filing this AE complaint, which is only the latest violation of his own topic ban, is not enough reason to throw this frivolous nonsense in the gutter then all the admins clamoring for a topic ban for DHeyward need to get their heads examined.--MONGO 01:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Thargor Orlando

More retaliatory behavior. Topic ban him and extend the ban to seeking sanctions against other editors at this point. Why are we continuing to tolerate this behavior? Thargor Orlando (talk) 22:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: seconding. I'd love to see the "worse statements" that I've made, having been accused, among other things, as someone being "deployed" by 8chan, As someone who has not even raised a complaint, this seems 100% unsupported by any evidence presented. Thargor Orlando (talk) 00:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: I would again like to see the evidence you're using against me so I can actually respond to it. Having an opinion on why we're allowing disruption in the subject-space should not be sanctionable, so if I don't know what I've done wrong, there's nothing I can show you that says "I can change," assuming there's anything that needs changing at all. Thargor Orlando (talk) 11:13, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: What evidence are you basing this on, specifically? Thargor Orlando (talk) 22:45, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: the issue with the proposed solution is that it sanctions me for some reason that has yet to be expressed with any evidence and doesn't appear to solve any existing problems. I'm not concerned about being topic banned out of any specific article because I'm not violating any rules, but I am concerned about being tarred with a brush due to the continued disruption of someone else. The goal of getting me removed from this situation doesn't seem logical or warranted: Mark will surely be here again because of his behavior (as predicted), so if it's to cut back on reports of his continued and consistent misbehavior, I don't see how sanctioning someone who has never initiated a report about Mark will help or why sanctioning any person pointing out the problems makes sense when you can just as easily cut back on the issue by extending the existing topic ban on MarkBernstein indefinitely, allowing all of us to move on from this. Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:07, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starship.paint

@Ched: and @Gamaliel: - it appears that you have missed this statement made by MarkBernstein in this very filing. But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there. This is not the first time, MarkBernstein, without evidence, accuses established editors of colluding offsite. Historical evidence: You would consider this a "mild" statement, Gamaliel? I think this behaviour is worse than anything DHeyward or Thargor Orlando have produced, therefore I question the equal punishments. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 01:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

• @Ched: - thank you. Would you consider it reasonable that given the past behavior in the historical evidence, that I request for MarkBernstein to additionally simply assure us that he will not repeat such behavior in the future? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 01:31, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

This is becoming tendentious. There is no personal attack. DHeyward wasn't the nicest, but stated his opinion. If a clerk thought it was a personal attack, they could have removed it. Compared to the conduct issues brought up in the GGTF case, for example, DHeyward's comments are downright pleasant. This on top of the previous request are making my lose my good faith in Mark. Dismiss this request. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Noting EdJohnston's comment above that, "The only acceptable reason he could be here at AE on the topic of Gamergate is for clarification or changes in his own ban", I'm starting to think this space is being used as a forum to air GG-related grievances instead of actually addressing violations.EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:34, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

In view of the kind of conduct problems we're seeing here, I agree with Gamaliel's proposed solution. The involved editors should all concentrate on the editing, and not continue this attempt to conduct a kind of warfare using Misplaced Pages. They've all been asked to drop the stick in the recent past. These continuing incidents, while not necessarily rising to the level we'd normally sanction, have no place on Misplaced Pages.

This proposal goes to the heart of the problems identified in the arbitration case. --TS 13:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

NE Ent

Gamaliel solution: +1. NE Ent 23:52, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by GoldenRing

A weighty matter, come behold,
Where editors' futures, bought and sold
By admin edict, ungainsayable
By another, logged and traceable,
Are decided. What great affair
Brings us to this brink? A bare
Recital of another's "wrongs".
For brave DHeyward, danger defying,
Would venture Bernstein's wrath by crying,
"God for Harry, England and St George!"
(A wiser choice of metre might have served)
"These galling goads go far enough!
Too far, these gallant jests! No bluff
Are they. Can arbcom not defend
Itself? Do they not wisely send
Their clerks, as messengers, hither to wend
And blot such stuff, should it offend?
What need has the judge, for counsel learned?
What need, the sword, for an advocate, turned
From cares for his customers sensitive ears?
Why from ARCA, where words so spent
In vain, should we now turn to this,
And thence to ANI, where (bliss!)
He got short shrift. What next? So bold
As to approach, as was foretold,
In form more ancient, the committee?
Be done with this; no more shall he
Darken the doors of arbitration
(Or anywhere else); let he, oblation,
Be poured out. Let the edict go:
MarkBernstein banned! This house of woe,
This abode of wrath shall suffer no more
His indignation, ruthless war
Against the trolls of xchan vile."
Such hopes of peace might bring a smile
To many faces; but not the doctor
(We must take care just how we speak, or
The charge, 'Familiarity!'
Will be our lot. For certainly
None dare dissent, however frantic,
From business standards transatlantic).
The cause is just, the foe is foul;
The means are justified by ends.
A TBAN? Pah! Why should that cow
A one so righteous? Why pretend
That standards ordinary limit
One who such heights attains? For it
Is how to tell the wheat from tares;
Any who disagrees, or dares
To call to question his 'behaviour'
(Apologies, again; the flavour
Of this word is not, for you,
A sweet one; but we must our due
To rhyme and metre duly pay,
For doggerel is the pedant's way)
Is branded Traitor to the Cause,
No matter what outstanding flaws
They may have spotted. And, just so,
To the enforcement board we go.
Where Gen'rous Gamaliel patiently posits
That each is as bad as the other, though opposites
In this dispute. Quite how 'tis so
Is hard to fathom, tricky to know,
When all these actions flow one way.
So here, at last, we have our say:
Let him serve his ninety days,
And on others no longer comment.
If further snipes he makes, he pays;
The ban indef shall be his torment.
Now close this action without via media,
And let us edit the encyclopaedia!

With apologies to DHeyward, for putting one or two words in his mouth, and to the good Doctor for taking one or two out of his. GoldenRing (talk) 00:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Strongjam

Topic ban is fine

Interaction ban at least

For all involved

— Strongjam (talk) 00:41, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

I think it would be a mistake to proceed on the basis of assuming culpability on the part of anyone except MarkBernstein. All DHeyward or ThargorOrlando stand accused of is calling a spade a spade, whereas the number of times MarkBernstein has cast aspersions or filed frivolous motions and been extended more WP:ROPE defies counting. Rhoark (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EncyclopediaBob

If the intent is to limit interaction between Mark and these users in the Gamergate space, and Mark is already topic banned making interaction impossible, how can we consider topic banning these users "preventative"? Until Mark's ban expires or is reversed there's no benefit to eliminating these editors from the space even if one could find cause. —EncyclopediaBob (talk) 01:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning DHeyward

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I'm not seeing a WP:NPA personal attack here, so I don't see anything to "enforce". Retaliatory? Perhaps. As far as the "wreak 'Havoc' on the community", I think that might be going a bit far at this time. Perhaps frustrated, but I'm not seeing attempts to deface Jimbo's page or anything. I would suggest that it might be best for MarkB to just proactively avoid all things gamergate or gender related for a bit and focus on some other area of interest. — Ched :  ?  23:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Starship.paint:, your point is well taken - and WP:ASPERSIONS I believe would be the relative link for that. Perhaps MarkB would care to strike that? — Ched :  ?  01:17, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

• DHeyward, MarkBernstein, Thargor Orlando: It is clear that all three of you are unable to play nicely with each other. All of you incessantly complain about the mild statements of the others while feeling free to make much worse statements about those you are complaining about. The Gamergate decision has received a lot of criticism, but sometimes you do have to clean house and sanction everyone involved. As of now, all three of you are indefinitely topic banned from the subject of each other. Furthermore, none of you can open a new noticeboard thread or enforcement request about any of the others without the permission of an uninvolved administrator. I will log this and post official notices on your user pages later this evening. Gamaliel (talk) 00:06, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I am going to wait until the morning and the responses of uninvolved parties (I think we've all heard quite enough from the involved parties.) before I officially log these sanctions. With the understanding that you will all play nice until then, I think we can refrain from enforcing them for the moment. (Hint: this would be a good time to explain how your behavior is going to change and to express your willingness to work with other editors who disagree with you.) Gamaliel (talk) 04:43, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

• I think that Gamaliel has found the solution most likely to result in an encyclopedia. I support it fully. Chillum 16:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

• I also agree that Gamaliel's proposal is the best placed to work, and I think/agree that it should be phrased as a topic ban rather than a mutual interaction ban. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:37, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
  • @Thargor Orlando: Primarily because I don't believe in one-way interaction bans especially when we're limiting the ability of one side to report the other party. Remembering that you won't be TBANed and they will so you'll still be able to edit GamerGate. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• Per WP:BANEX Mark Bernstein can't open complaints of Gamergate violations against others so long as he remains topic banned. So this AE complaint by Mark needs no action in that sense. User:Gamaliel intends to place what sounds like a three-way interaction ban between Mark, DHeyward and Thargor Orlando. I have no opinion on whether new bans against DHeyward and Thargor are needed, but if Gamaliel decides to take action, I agree with Callanecc that putting each of them under a Gamergate topic ban would be more logical than an interaction ban. That entails the result that you want, i.e. that none of them could use administrative proceedings against each other relating to Gamergate. EdJohnston (talk) 00:21, 12 March 2015 (UTC).

Before anyone imposes an interaction ban on these three editors, they should list some of the diffs (or write up the rationale) so it is clear why it's being imposed on each party. That might forestall a lengthy appeal process. From what's been presented here I'm unclear on why the new i-ban is actually needed. Mark B. is very indignant about Gamergate matters and he tends to use hot rhetoric. You might expect this could lead his targets to respond. If we are looking at Thargor's post at WP:ARCA that Mark included in a recent complaint, I'm not persuaded that it's severe enough to need a ban from participation on admin boards. EdJohnston (talk) 03:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• • The discussion which had already taken place here is the only reason I didn't close this one as well. Re sanctions I was thinking more TBAN from discussing the subject of each other (not from GamerGate) which now having thought about it is the same as a broadly construed IBAN. We could just IBAN them from each other when it regards the GamerGate topic or just from reporting each other regarding GamerGate period. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
• (commenting as an uninvolved admin, not as an arbitrator) Based on what I've seen, I think drama here could be reduced with a limited interaction ban on each of them preventing them from interacting with the other two when the context is either (a) GamerGate (broadly construed) or (b) any other area the other party has been topic banned from - i.e. if Dheyward is topic banned from say telecommunications in Bulgaria (chosen by special:random) then neither Thargor nor Mark could interact with Dheyward regarding that topic (but they could interact with each other about it if neither are topic banned), they remain free to interact with each other regarding every other topic (unless this is abused). This to include a prohibition on initiating dispute resolution regarding violations of this or any other restriction any of the three parties is under without the approval of an uninvolved admin, whose decision is final. Thryduulf (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• There was an editor from Nantucket

• To clarify where I am coming from here, this is the comment that got Mark Bernstein slapped with a three month topic ban: "It is fascinating that the particular group of editors who recently were so eager to cite Gamergate wikis, weblogs, and Breitbart are reluctant to inform newcomers to this article of this important new essay."

• It is snarky, to be sure, but I think it is far less objectionable than the following comments which these users feel free to say about Mark Bernstein with impunity:

• "It's further evidence that his contributions are a negative to the article space"
• "Mark's own intentions in this clarification is to drag the drama he continually creates within the Gamergate space into the campus rape disputes"
• "MarkBernstein doesn't appear to be here to build the encyclopedia."
• "Specious and tendentious actions by MarkBernstein"

• I don't think any of these comments rises to the level of a sanctionable personal attack, but it points to a problem with the current state of these sanctions when users demand sanctions for comments when they feel free to dish out similar or worse comments themselves. We cannot have collaborative editing when one editor feels he is constantly under attack but restrained from making what he sees as reasonable or equivalent comments, and we cannot have collaborative editing when other editors attempt to use sanction enforcement in lieu of collaborative discussion. If there is a problem with the behavior of a user that requires sanctions, then uninvolved editors and administrators can address it without the same group of involved parties demanding sanctions over and over again for months.

• So this is an attempt to level the playing field, to calm tensions, and to return the focus to editing instead of gamesmanship with sanctions. I've let this sit for a couple days because I was incredibly busy with the Signpost, but I wanted to gauge the awareness of the problem among involved parties and the acceptability of this measure by uninvolved parties. Disappointingly, most of the involved parties still maintain their battle lines. However, the involved parties appear to be largely in agreement. Take note of User:Chillum's comment above: "the solution most likely to result in an encyclopedia." I hope he is correct and that this solution will nudge the matter back towards what should be our goal here.

• I'm going to log the sanction and officially inform the users now. Gamaliel (talk) 16:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Theduinoelegy

NorthBySouthBaranof

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning NorthBySouthBaranof

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

EncyclopediaBob (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

NorthBySouthBaranof (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#NorthBySouthBaranof_topic-banned :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

All edits concern Lena Dunham, the subject of several of gender-related controversies:

1. 3/12/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape
2. 3/12/15 The policing of women's sexuality and feminism
3. 3/12/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape
4. 3/12/15 Regarding conflict between "conservative white men" and "feminists" (note removed text)
5. 2/25/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 2/11/15 Violation of topic ban, unsanctioned according to HJ Mitchell only because it was stale.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User:NorthBySouthBaranof continually toes the line of his topic ban now stepping far over.

• Upon his first edits to this article on 2/25/15, in the interests of avoiding arbitration I left this notice on his talk page.

• Upon these most recent edits, again I left a notice rather than bring an arbitration request . That notice was reverted and apparently only encouraged further edits.

He's been advised several times by respected editors to disengage but maintains he will "not be silenced and intimidated" despite the topic ban, as his most recent edits prove. Given the ineffectiveness of the topic ban I suggest a temporary site ban to prevent future violations, and a reversion of the article to its previous state.

@NorthBySouthBaranof: I'd suggest that notifying you personally and civilly not once but twice over several weeks before bringing this request is exactly the opposite of "stir up drama".

@Bishonen: @Konveyor Belt: I specifically limited my diffs to feminism (and its opposition) and campus rape, which the commenting arbs all agree is within the scope of the DS. I genuinely appreciate your assumption of good faith but I didn't intend to stretch the scope whatsoever. Even narrowly construed I believe these edits fall within it. And I find it difficult to take NorthBySouthBaranof's incredulity that Gamergate sanctions apply to this article sincerely, when the discussion on his talk page prompted by my post last month suggested it with reasonable arguments, and the arbs comments in the above clarification request just yesterday (a discussion in which NorthBySouthBaranof participated) removed any doubt. —EncyclopediaBob (talk) 21:27, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notice

Discussion concerning NorthBySouthBaranof

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

The article in question is the biography of a notable woman. I have edited the article to conform with basic policies, and intend to continue to expand the biography in keeping with basic policies. It is notable that I have identified at least one user with a demonstrated vendetta against the article subject, and who has expressed a continued desire to "fix" Dunham's article in a negative manner.

The reporting user is a single-purpose account with eight substantive articlespace contributions but a vast array of talk-page edits, noticeboard postings and general support of Gamergate-related subjects, leaping directly into encyclopedia politics from the minute they arrived. I submit that the reporting user is not here to build an encyclopedia, but rather to stir up drama and conflict. The statements of mine they cite re "disengagement" have nothing to do with the article in question — rather, they have to do with the subject of Gamergate. It is demonstrable that I have disengaged from Gamergate. Lena Dunham's article has absolutely nothing to do with Gamergate.

The only way in which this possibly could be said to relate to the topic ban is that Lena Dunham is a woman who has written about being a victim of sexual assault. Does ArbCom intend for my topic ban to encompass every woman or man who has ever written about sexual assault, or been the victim of sexual assault, or reported on sexual assault, or discussed sexual assault? Is that truly the case? If so, let ArbCom be clear that for alleged transgressions on an article about a video game controversy, it intends for me to be indefinitely prohibited from editing a vast array of articles about or relating to women (and men). If that is the case, you need to be entirely and thoroughly clear that the Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee believes anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted, written about sexual assault, reported on sexual assault, prosecuted sexual assault, studied sexual assault, portrayed a victim of sexual assault on stage or screen, etc. etc. etc. has willingly or unwillingly become part of a "gender-related controversy." The topic ban would thus extend from The Vagina Monologues to Oprah Winfrey, A Time to Kill (1996 film) to Lady Gaga, Teri Hatcher to Tyler Perry, Nevada Barr to the University of Idaho. I submit that such is absurdly overbroad, unfairly unenforceable and wholly unnecessary to the purpose of the Gamergate controversy arbitration case.

Konveyor Belt, you contradict yourself quite thoroughly here: That's false, and only would give more journalists more cannon fodder. ArbCom does not need to do any such thing, in fact, they already have. If my statement is false and "only would give more journalists more cannon fodder," then it is not true. If, on the other hand, ArbCom already has done such a thing, then they ought to be quite clear and explicit about it, regardless of what journalists might say about it. If sexual assault is a "gender-related controversy," and thus I am banned from literally every single article which might possibly touch on sexual assault, the Arbitration Committee has a responsibility to make that clear, so that I might immediately appeal it directly to Jimmy Wales as impossibly overbroad, unenforceable, unfair and wholly unnecessary to the purpose of the case. You are basically saying that the ArbCom should make a decision but not be explicit about it out of fear that "journalists" might criticize that decision. When one makes such a public decision, one cannot shirk public responsibility for that decision. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Konveyor Belt (uninvolved)

@NBSB: If that is the case, you need to be entirely and thoroughly clear that the Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee believes anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted, written about sexual assault, reported on sexual assault, prosecuted sexual assault, studied sexual assault, has willingly or unwillingly become part of a "gender-related controversy." That's false, and only would give more journalists more cannon fodder. ArbCom does not need to do any such thing, in fact, they already have.

You were tbanned under the standard tban as defined in the case as Any editor subject to a topic-ban in this decision is indefinitely prohibited from making any edit about, and from editing any page relating to, (a) Gamergate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed.

As stated in MarkBernstein's ARCA request by the arbs, sexual assault is pretty clearly a gender related area. Nobody, including the ArbCom, needs to define that. The very definition of sexual assault and the resulting controversies prove that pretty well. And per C, Lena Dunham is thus someone associated with a gender-related dispute or controversy. KonveyorBelt 18:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Re: By passing the standard TBAN definition, they have already said as much. I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing, and they meant to ban you from gender related issues, not just GG, of which sexual assault is inherently one of them. There is no need for any additional formal motions or clarifications on the subject because they would not be adding or amending anything. That's what I meant by "they have already decided it". KonveyorBelt 19:09, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

You have added things since I started replying, so I'll reply again. If sexual assault is a "gender-related controversy," and thus I am banned from literally every single article which might possibly touch on sexual assault, the Arbitration Committee has a responsibility to make that clear. That's ok. You have every right to know to what degree the ban extends. But if they told you as much, nothing would change. No additional amendments or motions are needed, because it was already in the decision from day 1.

On whether the ban is too broad and whether it is warranted: I'd say it's fairly warranted, as after the TBAN you have remained on articles like Lena Dunham that vaguely involve gender, endlessly wikilawyered over the ban (which is allowed per BANEX, but still tendentious), and even redacted BLP violations from the GG talk page which is also allowed by BANEX, but shows you are still involved in the area and still had it on your watchlist. This shows a disregard for the spirit of the rule, if not the letter, which was intended to get you to edit elsewhere. KonveyorBelt 19:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Bishonen: It is pretty silly to think the ban extends to all women. It is supposed to be broad, but not ridiculous. KonveyorBelt 19:25, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

Contrary to common sense it appears the ArbCom is going all in on their "we value the semblance of non-disruption and editors who are the target of coordinated outside disruption need to be purged" . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:13, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Superior orders and all. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:36, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I was asked to remove the reference above to admins hiding behind an "I was only following orders." defense. I will not.

"Gamergaters were ultimately unable to use Misplaced Pages to assert their views as if they were objective reality. Still, Misplaced Pages lost the very people who were trying to guard the gates in the first place. What happens to the next victim of a Misplaced Pages harassment campaign if the defenders are getting squeezed out through this pox-on-both-your-houses system?"

Admins in fact have policy: If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Misplaced Pages, ignore it. to state "There was a bad idea paving the way for organized disruption of the project and I will not play a part in institutionalizing it. " -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cailil

Sorry Bish but you're wrong on this one. The Lena Dunham diffs are topic ban violations. The mix of BLP, controversy and gender issues is clearly there. Anyone banned under ARBGG's ruling should not be making these kinds of edits--Cailil 22:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

NorthBySouthBaranof is a valuable defender of innocent people from BLP violations; however, in their zeal they seem to have good faith difficulty interpreting the terms of their topic ban. The purpose of the broad scope of the ban is to prevent the same behavioral issues from being exported to new pages. That is exactly what has happened here, in terms of a zeal for BLP causing unwillingness to recognize other points of view, along with blanking discussions in a way not justified by WP:BLPTALK. I'm in favor of extending WP:ROPE with the understanding that for BLP issues where there's a shred of doubt whether WP:BANEX applies NorthBySouth will bring it to ] or other appropriate avenues. Rhoark (talk) 23:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (anonymous)

I can find very little of substance in NorthBySouthBaranof's response here, nor those of the people defending him. The filer's contribution history is not relevant to the truth of the claims; and anyway would anyone really be satisfied if the motion were to be re-opened by someone else? Seems to me like we all know how that sort of thing usually goes - "stop forum-shopping"; "this repeated action is harassment" etc. As for the WP:NOTHERE charge, I can hardly imagine an act which contributes more to Misplaced Pages than ensuring that disruptive editors are justly sanctioned. (Well, one could directly clean up the mess, but that's a little harder to do when it's caused by a more established editor than the one noticing the problem.)

It ought to be obvious, to anyone who has been paying attention, how Lena Dunham is connected to gender-based controversy. Her book specifically relates her experiences as a woman; she has been accused of sexual abuse - an accusation which is clearly controversial and which many believe would be treated differently if she were a man; and her allegation of sexual assault apparently led to a witch-hunt of an innocent man - again seen by many as a men's rights issue. (I also note here that Misplaced Pages appears to have an interesting habit of consistently identifying "conservative" sources as such, while not applying the tag "liberal" similarly; and this is clearly evident in the case of the Lena Dunham article. Of course I do not mean to bring a content dispute here, but it's meaningful context - the informed observer will note a very strong tendency, in gender-related controversies, for "feminists" to be identified with liberalism and "MRAs" with conservatism, regardless of the accuracy of those statements.)

Arbcom's decision was clear, and deliberate. The prohibition on "gender-related controversy, broadly construed" is certainly and obviously not meant to apply to all individuals connected to sexual assault claims. However, it strains credulity to imagine that NorthBySouthBaranof honestly cannot see how Lena Dunham is not "just another victim" in this regard. There is nothing controversial about Oprah Winfrey's speaking out about being molested as a child, and it was nearly 3 decades ago. Lena Dunham's book is current, and there is plenty of plainly evident controversy.

Regarding defenders, I'm especially bothered by the apparent lack of civility on @TheRedPenOfDoom:'s part. Referring to "purges" and "superior orders" seems like rather deliberately constructed imagery. But anyway, these vague claims of coordinated outside disruption seem unproductive. Arbcom already considered several arguments about such harassment at great length before making their decision. It was assuredly taken into account, and further complaints can, as far as I'm concerned, really only be interpreted as whining. Or perhaps he has new evidence here? Care to point to where exactly, externally, my specific comments in this case have been solicited?

76.64.12.157 (talk) 02:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning NorthBySouthBaranof

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• No violation in my opinion. It's true that the standard topic ban is itself extremely (in my opinion overly) broad, including as it does the wording "any gender-related dispute or controversy". But I still can't believe the committee intended for gamergate-topic banned editors to be excluded from all articles about high-profile women, or even (per NBSB above) all articles about high-profile women who claim to have been raped. I suppose somebody could file a request for clarification, but it might be simpler if we could hear from some arbs here; pinging Dougweller, Roger Davies, GorillaWarfare. The OP is probably in good faith, but he/she shouldn't stretch "broadly construed" out to the breadth of the solar system. I note also that NBSB is protecting the article against those who would use it as a vehicle for attacking the subject, compare . I've revdel'd the offending post, but admins can read it here. (Please scroll down, the worst stuff is near the bottom.) Banning NBSB from articles like this one would be doing their subjects, and Misplaced Pages, a disfavor. Bishonen | talk 19:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC).

• Though single admins can issue tailored bans that don't cover the entire topic area, NBSB's topic ban comes directly from Arbcom. So we have no discretion to let NBSB edit campus rape articles. If the Committee considers campus rape a gender-related topic, then there is no recourse for NBSB short of WP:ARCA. Notice that this complaint asserts a violation of the Gamergate decision not WP:BLPBAN. EdJohnston (talk) 23:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• @Bishonen: I know you didn't ping me, and I'm speaking only for myself, not officially for the Committee, but in my own opinion, yes, items which are both controversial and gender-related are covered by the topic ban, just as it is worded. The Dunham edits in this case would be covered under that. Also, as a general reminder to other topic-banned editors in this area, exceptions to topic bans are deliberately narrow. It does include commenting on an enforcement request against oneself for the specific purpose of defending oneself (not for the purpose of general discussion of the issue, only for defending oneself), but it absolutely does not include commenting or opining on an enforcement request against another editor covered under the same topic ban where sanctions against oneself are not proposed. Such comments are in and of themselves ban violations, and topic-banned editors may not participate in such requests as third parties, as that is prohibited participation in the topic area. That has been happening frequently in this area, including at this request, and must stop. I decline to advocate any particular result here, but hope that's somewhat helpful. Seraphimblade 03:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• I agree with the committee's so far unanimous view at ARCA that these edits fall within the scope of the topic ban, and I think an enforcement action is in order. T. Canens (talk) 03:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

MarkBernstein

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning MarkBernstein

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

NE Ent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:45, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

MarkBernstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

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Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate (discretionary sanctions):

Dreadstar: "Due to your continued comments about other editors , I'm imposing upon you a 90-day ban on all edits about, and all pages related to, (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 10 March Statement WP:SPAMLINKs Bernstein's own blog "benefit our pals." Linked site is a discussion of Gamergate.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 3 Jan Block for prior violation

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

@Timotheus Canens: Prior to filing I asked @Roger Davies: where to file and was told "AE is best" NE Ent 09:28, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning MarkBernstein

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by MarkBernstein

Great Caesar’s Ghost! Shades of Kafka, yes, but also Lewis Carroll, Gilbert and Sullivan, and Catch-22! This affair has more nuttiness than a candy factory in a hurricane. Let’s look briefly at how we got into this fine mess, and how we might still get out.

1. Last Sunday at the Gamergate Talk page, we were discussing a recent article about collusive editing at the Gamergate page. In the course of that discussion, I made an indirect and general allusion to -- wait for it! -- collusive editing at the Gamergate page.

2. This topic has been reported in newspapers, studied in seminars and scholarly journals, and was recently discussed (by my Congresswoman, Katherine Clark D-MA) on the floor of the US House of Representatives. If uncivil it be, the planet is awash in incivility.

3. @Dreadstar: topic-banned me for alluding to this subject, under Gamergate Discretionary Sanctions. I was surprised -- but little surprises me these days when it comes to Misplaced Pages. (Little did I know how strange things would shortly grow.)

Suggestion: the topic ban is neither right nor expedient. I think you should overturn it.

4. A few minutes before, I had told an activist who had written to me that I was willing keep an eye on and associated pages. Now, @NorthBySouthBaranof:, who is topic banned under Discretionary Sanctions, had been criticized for editing the page of comedian Lena Dunham, who is probably not the first person who springs to mind when you think of GamerGate, nor even the hundred and first. Does Campus Rape fall under GamerGate sanctions? When in doubt, ask! I sent a quick email query to @Dreadstar: and to three other admins, posing this conundrum and explaining why I was asking.

5. Not having received a reply, but being engaged on my own talk page, I repeated the query there. Shortly afterward, I received a string of angry and threatening messages from Dreadstar, the last calling me a "motherfucker." (Believe me, I was absolutely astonished! What on earth could have provoked this?)

Suggestion: administrators really might respond to reasonable questions reasonably, whatever the provocation. Here, there was really no provocation, no urgency, nothing at stake. This wasn't like the dozens of attempts to publicize rumors about the sex lives of female software developers -- the most recent perpetrated 36 hours ago.

6. Unfortunately, the Motherfucker Memo failed to indicate whether or not the topic ban applied to Campus Rape. Not receiving any guidance overnight or the following morning, I wondered, “whom might I ask?” It turns out that the Arbitration Committee has established a page, Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment (ARCA), where one may request clarification! Seeking clarity, I did, asking what I had asked before:

Is it your intent that the standard Gamergate topic ban include pages relating to Campus Rape, which might conceivably be construed to be a controversy and arguably is related to gender?

The Arbitration Committee proceeded to discuss the matter, and as far as I know they continue to do so. I may not agree with their line of reasoning, but they have not asked for my opinion and I have not offered it: I simply asked what they intended.

7. Some third parties did express opinions of various sorts on various topics. A number expressed great displeasure with me and urged that I be sternly punished. I responded -- as people frequently do at ARCA -- in my own area with one or two temperate observations, reminding all that (a) the question at hand was what Arbcom meant to say, to which anything I might have done or said or any funny faces I might have made is perfectly irrelevant, and (b) that one proposal, put forth by an administrator, might prove unworkable in ways that are not immediately apparent. Again, this is entirely reasonable, while the denigration of my abilities, intentions, and character heaped on my head were entirely out of place

Suggestion: I know the clerks are new, but keeping the proceedings strictly on topic might have been wiser.

8. It is this last issue -- my suggesting that @Masem:’s proposal to vary the ambit of Discretionary Sanctions from person to person would prove both unjust and impractical -- it is this that arouses Ent’s wrath and brings us here. (I know -- you can’t make this stuff up!)

Suggestion: the clerks didn’t object to my statement. The arbitrators didn’t object to my statement, and some directly engaged it. If it was disruptive, might someone have mentioned it there? Trout amandine for our good NE Ent, with a lightly chilled Chablis.

9. NEEnt also raises the question of my linking to my writing on Misplaced Pages from time to time, citing WP:SPAMSITES. This is silly. First, “Infamous” and its successors have been read by about 120,000 people now. They’ve been quoted in newspapers with an aggregate circulation of many millions of readers. Every tech journalist in the world is aware of the story now. The flow of traffic from an obscure inquiry page in Misplaced Pages is trivial; cui bono?

It might also be remembered that I’ve done a bit of research in writing with links. After four dozen research papers, a writing guide that gets reprinted in high school primers, a book and several book chapters about links, linking becomes a habit.

Finally: remember that I was addressing ARBCOM, people whom I’ve both denounced and ridiculed. In such circumstances, my mother always urged me to lay the bad news out clearly, rather than to hope no one has noticed.

Suggestion: Don’t like the way I use links? Do you have an idea of a better way to use links in exposition and argumentation? Write me. I may not be your cup of tea, but I am active in the hypertext research community and, if you have a better way to write with links, I’m all ears -- and I can (and will) direct you to the audience you want.

10. I do regret whatever disruption was caused by the original transgression:

“It is fascinating that the particular group of editors who recently were so eager to cite Gamergate wikis, weblogs, and Breitbart are reluctant to inform newcomers to this article of this important new essay. Why would that be?”

No doubt this was a very wicked thing to say, though I’m not sure how. It might violate of WP:MOMHESLOOKINGATMEFUNNY, except that's not a thing. There are worse things: One of those worse things is outing -- the real thing, not the Misplaced Pages thing. It can ruin careers and cost lives. This is not a mere content dispute or a fight about infoboxes. Let’s not lose track of that.

11. For all my faults, I've been a pretty useful Wikipedian. Unlikely as it seems, I might still prove useful to the project if you can find the will to listen to some of my suggestions -- or if you can contrive suggestions of your own that you can convince me are superior.

Statement by Rhoark

It would be Kafkaesque to punish violation of a tban made in the process of seeking clarification on the tban through the appropriate venue. Rhoark (talk) 02:29, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (anonymous)

@Rhoark: As far as I can tell, the cited diff wouldn't be affected by the clarification being sought, and there's no reason to suppose that MarkBernstein didn't know any better. MarkBernstein's outside link directly discusses Gamergate, while the ARCA is about whether "campus rape" fits under "gender related controversy". This is far from the first time he's dropped links to his blog articles on Misplaced Pages. There would be nothing Kafkaesque about charging someone with a crime in the middle of an ongoing trial, if they actually flagrantly committed a crime right in the courtroom. 76.64.12.157 (talk) 02:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Hipocrite

A little confused here. NE Ent appeared to remove MB's topic ban here. Also, if MB's topic ban includes requests for clarification, how is he supposed to understand his topic ban (which, by the way, no longer exists)? Hipocrite (talk) 02:52, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starship.paint

@Hipocrite: - NE Ent closed that discussion with (per OP request). Seeing that the OP is MarkBernstein, it would seem ridiculous if NE Ent had lifted MarkBernstein's topic ban directly due to MarkBernstein's request? Perhaps the topic closure was done per MarkBernstein's request. Nevertheless, would appreciate @NE Ent: to comment on this. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Just realized NE Ent has commented on this already: Of course closing the ANI thread doesn't affect the topic ban; the discussion was about Dreadstar's inappropriate language. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:32, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Hipocrite and @Rhoark: - by all means, MarkBernstein is within his means to clarify his ban at ARCA, but such clarification did not need blatant advertising of his own blog discussing GamerGate. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning MarkBernstein

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Consistent with AE's traditional reluctance to intervene on arbcom's own pages, I would leave this issue to the committee and its clerks. T. Canens (talk) 03:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Cwobeel

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Cwobeel

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

ChrisGualtieri (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:36, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Cwobeel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:NEWBLPBAN

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 03:43, 23 January 2015 Original insertion of an inaccurate, out of context, and less than half a sentence passing mention sourced to an organization with long standing disputes with Emerson.
2. 17:55, 23 January 2015 Adding: " One more source for good measure)" A tiny quip labeling him as an Islamophobe without any reason or evidence.
3. 4:27, 2 March 2015 Reinserting into lead after protection lapsed.
4. 16:31, 2 March 2015 Continuing after a month long protection to insert inappropriate material
5. 4 March 2015 Inserting the material again despite no consensus
6. Steven Emerson - Part 3 - A BLPN discussion is made and Cwobeel acknowledges WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE
7. 7 March 2015 Restoring the problematic material again during a BLPN dispute.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 12 December 2014 - Cwobeel was notified of the AC/DS for BLP.
2. 24 January 2015 He was blocked for violating the sanctions after I submitted a Arbitration Enforcement request when the user was restoring unsourced BLPs - and sourced them only to IMDb and arguing with an admin over whether or not it was appropriate.
3. 25 January 2015 A sanction was placed on "Awards and nominations" except for adding Reliable Sources - This sanction is not relevant here, but it was the end result of the previous AE about BLP.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This needs a bit of background. The source being used here is from organizations which Emerson has had legal battles with and has actually sued for defamation arising from said disputes. Cwobeel asserts that the sources are high-quality and reliable despite this. Biased sources exist, but accusations of bigotry are very serious and should not be sourced to less than a single sentence. Secondly, the only source which gives a "reason" is actually committing a very biased and judgmental attack on Emerson. Emerson has also highlighted that it is a partial quote being used. Within hours of the Oklahoma City Bombing, media, law enforcement and even the FBI raised concerns of Islamic terrorism. Emerson was not the origin, but merely one of numerous persons used by the media to further the Islamic Terrorism angle, he simply acknowledged the speculative and rampant rumor about six hours after the blast. Publications from the Wall Street Journal to the The New York Post ran stories with other experts (not Emerson) making clear the "middle east" terrorism links.

After the removal on March 4, the BLPN petered around a bit. Essentially the "gaff" is important and everyone agrees it needs to be in the article - but the "Islamophobe source" accusation is shown to be flawed and have no consensus to be included and Cwobeel re-added it anyways. Unfortunately this is not an isolated example because Cwobeel has also repeatedly edit warred to re-insert completely false material shown here removing an ACLU reference (containing the document) and replacing it with the erroneous and false claim saying it does not exist. I do not understand why Cwobeel does these things or has this attitude, but can the article also be placed on 1RR restriction since the 1 month protection failed to stop this?

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Cwobeel

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Nomoskedasticity

This AE filing is a gambit in a content dispute. It's fine for the OP to disagree with the proposed edit, but when several other editors dissent from the notion that it's a BLP violation it's very poor form to state that notion here as if it were an indisputable fact. The basis for the claim includes the idea that because Emerson sued a couple of scholars over the way he was characterised by them the scholars are therefore unusable as sources about him. That's a very strange idea, and again it does not enjoy consensus in discussions about this article. What that means is that "the 'Islamophobe source' accusation is shown to be flawed" is a matter of the OP's opinion. I really don't see how all of this adds up to a need for an immediate block, nor a block at all. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell, there's a context here that's worth knowing; I've just addressed your point via a post on BLPN; perhaps it's redundant to repeat it here. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:58, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MrX

Isn't it standard practice to allow the accused to make a statement on their own behalf in Arbcom enforcement cases, especially when the case is opened in the middle of the night? I'm deeply concerned about the strained interpretation of WP:BLP being advanced here, on the basis of original research and without the consensus of the community. In my opinion, these types of blocks based on novel interpretation of policy have a potentially chilling effect on open editing of any BLPs and the potential for seriously affecting neutral POV by keeping any and all negative information out of articles if anyone objects. - MrX 17:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Serialjoepsycho

I could only struggle to say that this is a bad call, because simply it's not. It is a good call. Very straight forward. With that said however I'm not sure this case calls for a straight forward call. This diff really seems in good faith. While I did suggest Cwobeel seek a formal closure,it does seem his view of the consensus is correct. Perhaps he should have waited longer before instituting the change. In this case a direct warning and pointing out the problematic behavior may very well suffice. The thing is the article was just locked down for a month. I'm not sure this does anything to target the disruption to the article, just perhaps Cwobeel's. I'd hate to see DS to be used as a replacement for consensus making and reviewing related conversations of the subject of Steven Emerson I question if that may be what is happening. I'd like to ask you to consider over turning this block and I would like to also ask that you consider Chris' request above to institute 1RR in the article if you haven't already.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 20:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Cwobeel

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I've blocked Cwobeel for a fortnight to prevent the immediate disruption (which is the restoration of the material while it was being discussed at BLPN). Considering this is the second time in recent weeks that Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs as been in question at this board, I think we should consider much more rigorous sanctions, possibly even a long-term block. Note that this is Cwobeel's fifth block in less than a year, and BLP issues appear to be at the root of all of them. Cwobeel also has two logged warnings under NEWBLPBAN, and was banned by Sandstein in January from editing award lists. It seems that Cwobeel's compliance with BLP has been a long-term problem. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:39, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

  @Nomoskedasticity and MrX: et al, the block is not based on one interpretation of BLP versus another. I have no opinion on that. The issue is that once something is removed on a good-faith BLP objection it shouldn't be restored until the concerns are addressed or consensus determines them to be meritless. Edit-warring because you disagree with your opponent's interpretation of BLP is unacceptable, and doing so citing a discussion that is still open strikes me as disingenuous. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

• I've brought this back from the archive as it was never formally closed and I think wider issues with Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs bear examination. I note that Cwobeel has been blocked five times in the just under a year—twice under NEWBLPBAN, three times for edit-warring (of which two were on BLPs). I'm concerned that Cwobeel has a tendency to revert without discussion and to dismiss good-faith BLP concerns that he personally deems to be invalid rather than waiting for consensus on noticeboards and talk pages. I've unblocked Cwobeel, as the short-term block was only ever intended to deal with the immediate issue, but I think we should seriously consider some sort of revert restriction or similar (broad topic bans are a bit of a blunt instrument, and I don't think that sort of thing is warranted here). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)