Revision as of 03:39, 27 March 2015 editGreenC (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors128,729 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 04:09, 27 March 2015 edit undoGreenC (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors128,729 editsNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
Line 48: | Line 48: | ||
::Canvassing is not what you think it is. The notification was neutral (did not ask to vote a certain way), it was appropriate for an involved editor (I've worked on some of these articles before, including other AfDs, and it was on my watchlist). See ]. -- ]] 03:39, 27 March 2015 (UTC) | ::Canvassing is not what you think it is. The notification was neutral (did not ask to vote a certain way), it was appropriate for an involved editor (I've worked on some of these articles before, including other AfDs, and it was on my watchlist). See ]. -- ]] 03:39, 27 March 2015 (UTC) | ||
*'''Keep''' - It simply passes notability criteria per ] #1 and #2. The award adds enough weight to the subject's notability.--<font face="monospace">](]-])</font> 03:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC) | *'''Keep''' - It simply passes notability criteria per ] #1 and #2. The award adds enough weight to the subject's notability.--<font face="monospace">](]-])</font> 03:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC) | ||
*'''Comment''' The nominator has opened 4 AfDs. They are all article created by ]. The nom has voiced intention to open more AfDs for articles created by Mhhossein - they will be added to this list if so. | |||
:*Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/One Woman's War: Da (Mother) | |||
:*] | |||
:*] | |||
:*] | |||
::--]] 04:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 04:09, 27 March 2015
One Woman's War: Da (Mother)
- One Woman's War: Da (Mother) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Poor notability and lack of reliable sources. There are only some dependent Iranian references in the article that just introduce the book. There is nothing which can make the book notable. ●Mehran ● 08:39, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Speedy keep, As the page creator I believe that the subject is absolutely notable. To clarify my point, I'd like to refer you to Misplaced Pages:Notability (books) where it's mentioned that "A book that meets either the general notability guideline or the criteria outlined in this or any other subject-specific notability guideline, and which is not excluded under the What Misplaced Pages is not policy, is presumed to merit an article." Having the above point in mind, the subject is notable per WP:BKCRIT:
- The book has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries and reviews. As the article says, a TV program is adapted from this subject. Also, Aryn Baker, the Middle East Bureau Chief for TIME, had a conversation with Seyyedeh Zahra Hossein, the narrator of the book.
- One Woman's War: Da (Mother) won the title of "selected book" in the second round of Jalal Al-e Ahmad Literary Awards,"Iran's most lucrative literary award".
- The translator is notable. Mhhossein (talk) 12:44, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Keep per Mhhossein. Meets WP:GNG,
WP:AUTHOR #3multiple reviews, and has won a significant award. -- GreenC 16:31, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- I got author and book confused, it should be WP:BKCRIT #1. -- GreenC 14:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Keep per Mhhossein. Meets WP:GNG, WP:AUTHOR. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 18:47, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. User:Green Cardamom has been canvassed here by the article creator and his !vote should be taken with a pinch of salt. The sources cited are worthless, and the award mentioned is one instituted by the totalitarian Iranian government.--Anders Feder (talk) 22:40, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- The article is on my watchlist. I saw this AfD regardless of what people might post on my talk page and I would have posted here regardless. Most awards in Iran are state, just as they were in the USSR etc.. notability knows no border, if it's notable in Iran it's notable. -- GreenC 22:58, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- No it isn't.--Anders Feder (talk) 23:05, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- It was absolutely an Appropriate notification. However, how Iran, Germany, US or any other country is governed has nothing to do with this discussion. Mhhossein (talk) 02:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Yes it does. The totalitarian way Iran is governed precludes reliability, which is a central pillar of notability. As for the notification, there is nothing appropriate about notifying an editor who you know to be disposed to agree with you. User:AliAkar, who has now been blocked for racism and sockpuppetry, tried the same thing with the editor in question.--Anders Feder (talk) 03:03, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I prefer to stay focused on the subject, I don't care how other editors behave. Green is an expert in this field. Mhhossein (talk) 03:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- In what field? And on the basis of what?--Anders Feder (talk) 03:56, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I find it odd that both Anders Feder and Mehran have not edited Misplaced Pages for a very long time, weeks, then both show up at the same time and place in this AfD and nowhere else. And they are both the only one's voting Delete. And then Anders Feder is throwing around all sorts of bad faith accusations and attempts to frame people for bad behavior. What's going on here? Probably something happening over at the Persian Misplaced Pages. Anders Feder, is there, how did you find out about this? I don't speak Persian but have access to Google Translate. -- GreenC 04:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I have no idea what might be happening on Persian Misplaced Pages. I was following the AliAkar SPI. Mhhossein has edited many of the same articles as AliAkar, including ones on various obscure Iranian books, and has created this one, which you happened to have commented on. That was probably a complete coincidence. If you didn't come here because you was notified, I take your word for it.--Anders Feder (talk) 04:59, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Green: You can have a brief view of how Anders Feder has acted similarly in the past by checking this link. Mhhossein (talk) 05:09, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you for providing that link. Tells me all I need to know. -- GreenC 14:07, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Green: You can have a brief view of how Anders Feder has acted similarly in the past by checking this link. Mhhossein (talk) 05:09, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I have no idea what might be happening on Persian Misplaced Pages. I was following the AliAkar SPI. Mhhossein has edited many of the same articles as AliAkar, including ones on various obscure Iranian books, and has created this one, which you happened to have commented on. That was probably a complete coincidence. If you didn't come here because you was notified, I take your word for it.--Anders Feder (talk) 04:59, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I find it odd that both Anders Feder and Mehran have not edited Misplaced Pages for a very long time, weeks, then both show up at the same time and place in this AfD and nowhere else. And they are both the only one's voting Delete. And then Anders Feder is throwing around all sorts of bad faith accusations and attempts to frame people for bad behavior. What's going on here? Probably something happening over at the Persian Misplaced Pages. Anders Feder, is there, how did you find out about this? I don't speak Persian but have access to Google Translate. -- GreenC 04:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- In what field? And on the basis of what?--Anders Feder (talk) 03:56, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I prefer to stay focused on the subject, I don't care how other editors behave. Green is an expert in this field. Mhhossein (talk) 03:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Yes it does. The totalitarian way Iran is governed precludes reliability, which is a central pillar of notability. As for the notification, there is nothing appropriate about notifying an editor who you know to be disposed to agree with you. User:AliAkar, who has now been blocked for racism and sockpuppetry, tried the same thing with the editor in question.--Anders Feder (talk) 03:03, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- It was absolutely an Appropriate notification. However, how Iran, Germany, US or any other country is governed has nothing to do with this discussion. Mhhossein (talk) 02:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- No it isn't.--Anders Feder (talk) 23:05, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: The references of the article are not reliable at all, they are not independent either. Tebyan, which Mhhossein showed above, had never been a reliable source and everyone who is able to read Persian can confirm it. All the sources are Iranian dependent websites and you could not find any non-Iranian source that covers the article and makes it notable. The translator's article has been created recently and again it is not notable either and probably will be deleted soon. And please watch out your words, you are accusing Anders Feder and me, I can edit in Misplaced Pages whenever I like and my next edit may be in next 10 years, so please read WP:NPA and be careful for the future not be blocked for your personal attacks. ●Mehran ● 07:09, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- You're not an admin on English Misplaced Pages so don't threaten to block people. If you have a problem with NPA than open a case and lets look all the facts, but given what I have seen it would be a boomerang. -- GreenC 14:14, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Mehran: Unlike fa.wikipedia, editors have to act more precise and choose words more carefully here. Your comment needs a huge "clean up"; 1- Please consider that reliability is a relative concept, So you have to mention for what kind of materials a certain source is unreliable (or reliable). 2- per WP:IS, "An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a written topic". Could you please tell us how you found Tebyan dependent on this subject? Or, could you please tell us what you mean by "independent"? 3- The fact reported by Tebyan is a FACT which is some thing like reporting weather forecast! So, regardless of the source we know that the book had been the subject of a TV documentary. 4-That the The translator's article has been created recently,changes nothing and his page has no influence on his notability. Mhhossein (talk) 07:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- I have no idea why you are talking about another Misplaced Pages project here; 1- This is my job to ask you why you think this is an reliable source? Tebyan is a mirror website, there are lots of copyright violations and non-NPOV contents in it. Of course English people cannot understand Persian and they may be misled by wrong words. 2- Both of Tebyan and Sureh Mehr publications (which has published the book) are subsidiaries of "Islamic Dissemination Organization". 3- The FACT has to be published in a reliable source, Tebyan is even not a reliable weblog! 4- I do not care about the translator, I only answered your first paragraph. ●Mehran ● 07:45, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- The parent organization, "Islamic Dissemination Organization" or "Islamic Development Organization", was established "by Late Imam ’s command", i.e. it is state-owned. IRIB TV4, where the TV adaptation (not documentary) of the book was broadcast, is also state-owned. So the program clearly fails WP:BKCRIT's requirement that the source be "independent of the book itself".--Anders Feder (talk) 10:03, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- East is east and west is west. I wondered how you could make this inter-relationships! There's actually no vested dependance between the subject and the state TV channel! according to the channel official website, the programs is a documentary. FYI, the English translation is published by Mazda publishers located in US. Mhhossein (talk) 11:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Wonder all you want. Denying reality won't make it go away.--Anders Feder (talk) 11:20, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- East is east and west is west. I wondered how you could make this inter-relationships! There's actually no vested dependance between the subject and the state TV channel! according to the channel official website, the programs is a documentary. FYI, the English translation is published by Mazda publishers located in US. Mhhossein (talk) 11:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- It has been said in Tebyan that the program has been broadcasted on Channel1, while your latter link has mentioned Channel4. Consider these contradictions, that is why they are not reliable sources. We even do not know if such program has been existed or really broadcasted. Please bring some reliable sources ad then we will talk about it. ●Mehran ● 11:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- You said "you could not find any non-Iranian source that covers the article and makes it notable". Are you saying that on Iranian topics only non-Iranian sources make it notable? Surely you don't mean that, or are you simply misinformed about how notability works? -- GreenC 14:07, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- You have selected one of my sentences and written what you think about it! As I saif before, all of the "Iranian" sources on this article are non-reliable or dependent and I see no reason to repeat here my previous edits again. ●Mehran ● 14:39, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- And you are absolutely right on that.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:59, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Mehran: I think you can read persian, then you will see that Channel 4 broadcasted the program for the "second time"! So, there's actually no contradiction. How funny it would be! Mhhossein (talk) 17:04, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- And you are absolutely right on that.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:59, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- You have selected one of my sentences and written what you think about it! As I saif before, all of the "Iranian" sources on this article are non-reliable or dependent and I see no reason to repeat here my previous edits again. ●Mehran ● 14:39, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- You said "you could not find any non-Iranian source that covers the article and makes it notable". Are you saying that on Iranian topics only non-Iranian sources make it notable? Surely you don't mean that, or are you simply misinformed about how notability works? -- GreenC 14:07, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. ●Mehran ● 11:53, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Comment All other things aside, why does the Jalal Al-e Ahmad Literary Award not count? I dont see how an award given by a totalitarian regime is any less notable than one given by any other country. Bosstopher (talk) 17:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Whether you think the award counts is up to you and you alone. The notability of the award is not what is being questioned here. It is its reliability as a source. WP:BKCRIT uses the language "major literary award", which isn't very unambigious. Is it major? I don't know. I suppose to someone who supports the Iranian regime, or its legitimacy as an interlocutor of the Iranian people, it might be. But any interpretation that acts as a backdoor around WP:RELIABILITY is invalid as far as I am concerned. And if the award is major, why don't we see an abundance of reliable sources covering the winning book itself?--Anders Feder (talk) 19:50, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Delete - The book is not notable and the article lacks any reliable sources. Also please discount GreenC's comments as they has been canvassed.Mbcap (talk) 01:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
- Canvassing is not what you think it is. The notification was neutral (did not ask to vote a certain way), it was appropriate for an involved editor (I've worked on some of these articles before, including other AfDs, and it was on my watchlist). See Misplaced Pages:Canvassing#Appropriate_notification. -- GreenC 03:39, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - It simply passes notability criteria per WP:BKCRIT #1 and #2. The award adds enough weight to the subject's notability.--Seyyed(t-c) 03:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
- Comment The nominator has opened 4 AfDs. They are all article created by User:Mhhossein. The nom has voiced intention to open more AfDs for articles created by Mhhossein - they will be added to this list if so.
- Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/One Woman's War: Da (Mother)
- Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/A City Under Siege: Tales of the Iran-Iraq War
- Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/That Which That Orphan Saw
- Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Hadith of Jesus Praying Behind Mahdi