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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Gender article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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	Gender was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result March 12, 2006 Good article nominee Listed July 7, 2008 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. LGBTQ+ studies This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Misplaced Pages. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Gender studies This article is part of WikiProject Gender studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.Gender studiesWikipedia:WikiProject Gender studiesTemplate:WikiProject Gender studiesGender studies ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. To-do list: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Assess : see Unassessed Gender studies articles and Unknown-importance Gender studies articles Cleanup : edit to see Collaborate : see /Collaboration Copyedit : edit to see Deletion sorting : see /Sexuality and gender Expand : edit to see Infobox : see Gender studies articles needing infoboxes Merge : edit to see Notability : edit to see NPOV : edit to see Orphans : Brannon Masculinity Scale · Holy Virility · Media and gender · Michael Kaufman (author) · Women's education in Saudi Arabia Photo : see Misplaced Pages requested photographs of gender studies Split : History of feminism Stubs : see Gender studies stubs Translate : see /translation Update : edit to see Verify : Riot grrrl Needs attention : see Gender studies articles needing attention Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Sociology Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Sexology and sexuality Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Philosophy: Ethics / Social and political Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Misplaced Pages.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated task forces: /  Ethics Social and political philosophy

To-do: E · H · W · RUpdated 2007-02-06 For section "sex": "Here should be a summary of the sex-determination system article and related material, with emphasis on how the categorisation into male and female works, i.e., stuff about sexual dimorphism (how sex is determined in different species). XX chromosomes, SRY genes, reproductive tasks, etc." For section "social category": This needs to be expanded. For section "music": Write about Riepel's theories For section "other languages: Should this section be here at all? See AlexR's comments on the talk page (now in Talk Archive 1).

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This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2013 Q3. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies/Gender and International Affairs (Fall 2013)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

Recent changes to the article

Shmapple shauce has been making changes to the article. Two of those edits have been altered or reverted so far, once by EvergreenFir (seen here) and once by me (seen here). Shmapple shauce, I see that by clicking on your contributions that it currently states at the top, "Shmapple shauce is a student in Human Development (course talk)." So you are editing the Gender article as part of a WP:Class assignment, correct? Whatever the case, do you mind slowing down on your changes to the article and explaining here on the talk page what changes you are looking to make? This will allow others to better interact with you, and possibly help you. For example, you are WP:Overlinking in some cases. Flyer22 (talk) 06:18, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Noting here that two more editors, Sloan.16 and StylusOne, from the Human Development course are editing the Gender article. Is there anything in particular that you all have planed for this article? Continuing to edit the article as part of a WP:Class assignment without participating here at the talk page might not be the best route to go. Read WP:Class assignment, if you have not already. Flyer22 (talk) 04:11, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Flyer22 We have a very general assignment of improving the page by adding citations, information, and pictures. There will be five us that are editing the page from now until December. It is all our first time editing, so thank you for your advice. Sloan.16 (talk)

Adding of 'gender and climate change'

I just added the section 'gender and climate change' to gender and society. I know that climate change is not regarded as part of society by many people. However, since in this case it is mostly about the social dimension of climate change (and, as discussed in the text), a purely technical framing of climate change may be problematic) Please feel free to comment! Theo-bromin (talk) 12:36, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

1. MacGregor, Sherilyn. "A Stranger Silence Still: The Need for Feminist Social Research on Climate Change." The Sociological Review 57 (2010): 124–140. Web.(accessed October 25, 2014).

Gender identity

The one revision was inappropriate. "Changed first line back to how it was. Except for genderqueer cases, gender identity is not usually a choice." That represents a specific philosophical view, and is not neutral. There is also a problem with consistency. Besides issues with there being a choice in the sub-category and not in the overarching category (a possible categorical error), the editor who revised the original statement notes that in their philosophical view the issue of choice is present. In short, the revision itself acknowledges that it contains an error. This is further illustrated by the first sentence of the following paragraph, which quite clearly, illustrates the problem with not allowing such a choice. This is just a fairly straight forward contradiction, which further illustrates the lack of consistency. I've returning the inclusion of the word 'choice' to the opening sentence of the section. Ideally, the section would receive a rewriting, better balancing the multitude of schools of thought on the subject, with less of an emphasis on Butler and her derivative views. Maxxx12345 (talk) 21:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

This revision that you speak of was not inappropriate. And, regarding a similar edit you made, I explained why on your talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 03:01, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Can we get another editor to address the inconsistency in the article? Obviously there's a problem regarding some sections stating there is a choice, and stating there is no choice as the editor, Fly22, has posted. The contradictions in this section need to be addressed. Maxxx12345 (talk) 03:22, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Like I just stated here at your talk page: Different beliefs among people about what gender identity is should be in the Gender article. We include different definitions and views of biological sex, gender and gender identity in the Gender article, just like we include different definitions and views of domestic violence in the Domestic violence article. We include WP:Notable definitions and views in articles that have more than one definition or view for a topic. You have once again cited the topic of gender binary, as if that changes the fact that people usually identify with a gender by age three of four; in the usual case, it is not a conscious choice at that age (except for natural gender variance aspects that can happen as a child is exploring what it means to be a boy or a girl), but rather what that person feels internally is their gender. You act like not including the words choice or chooses to for the sentence you challenged means that we are stating that people are born with a gender identity; it's not a matter of "you are born this way or you are raised this way"; it is a complex combination of biology and environment, just like sexual orientation is. You want to call gender identity a choice, when it is, in fact, not a choice for the vast majority of people. That is the problem with your edit. Leaving the words "chooses to" out of describing gender identity is not a problem; stating "Gender identity is the gender a person identifies as." is neutral, and does not speak of whether gender identity is a choice or not. Stating "Gender identity is the gender a person chooses to self-identifies as." is not neutral. And has a grammar problem with the word self-identifies; should be self-identify.

And as for why I told you to not bring this matter to my talk page: You took the matter to Boomur's talk page. Article matters should ideally be dealt with at the article talk page. I prefer to keep talk page discussions centralized; see WP:TALKCENT. Further, stating or implying that editors are engaging in WP:Advocacy with regard to this gender identity topic, as you have done on your talk page and here, should stop. My user page is very clear that I do not tolerate WP:Advocacy. I am going by what the overwhelming majority of research states of gender identity; WP:Due weight and all that.

To others: Take note that, besides taking this matter to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Philosophy (noted above with this link), Maxxx12345 also took this matter to Misplaced Pages:Teahouse/Questions; see here. Flyer22 (talk) 04:48, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Note: Maxxx12345 replied further at the Maxxx12345 talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 05:21, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Maxxx12345 keeps replying at the Maxxx12345 talk page, as seen here, even though I mentioned there that this discussion should take place at one talk page. So if anyone wants to read additional replies from Maxxx12345 on this matter, perhaps check the Maxxx12345 talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 07:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Is it really not possible to get another editor to do something as simple as read the introductory material from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry regarding the subject to fix the fairly straight forward problems in the article? That would seem quite reasonable for an encyclopedia entry, particularly considering that there are problems with edits by people who don't seem to understand even the basic differences between particularity and normative positions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.25.117.176 (talk) 03:12, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see that 108.25.117.176 (talk · contribs) is also 108.25.112.234 (talk · contribs) (see here and here). Best to ignore then. Flyer22 (talk) 04:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

And now, thanks to this, this, this and this, I know that IP 108.25.117.176 and IP 108.25.112.234 is Maxxx12345. Apparently, my "04:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC)" above comment inspired Maxxx12345 to start WP:Hounding me by going to talk pages I have commented at and attributing my editing and things I support as problematic, despite my editing and things I support being in line with the way Misplaced Pages is supposed to work. WP:Pinging I JethroBT, who blocked IP 108.25.112.234, so that User:I JethroBT is aware of this. Flyer22 (talk) 08:18, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Gender vs. sex

Hello all. I see that the image () and one or two other spots are inconsistent in their use of the words "sex" vs. "gender". This should not be confused: in particular, the image shows symbols used to denote one's biological sex. Any objections if i fix this up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PaulVanDerWalt (talk • contribs) 13:24, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

PaulVanDerWalt (talk · contribs), we've debated "sex vs. gender" at this talk page times before, as recently as what you see at Talk:Gender/Archive 5 and sort of at #Gender identity above. As the Gender article states, the terms gender and sex are commonly used interchangeably. Not everyone adheres to the sex and gender distinction; in fact, it seems that the vast majority of people these days do not adhere to it. Therefore, I don't see the issue that you do with the lead (first) image that is currently in the article. I also don't know what other parts of the article you are referring to, and exactly what you are proposing. For example, are you proposing to change the lead image or not have any lead image until a better one is found? Flyer22 (talk) 05:17, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 (talk · contribs) OK, i guess i wouldn't be the first indeed to discuss this, haha. The issue for me is the title/filename and caption of that image: i believe in each case that gender should be changed to sex (not necessarily removing the image, although that might be better since it focuses less on a binary gender distinction -- but i suspect i'd only be pushing my own agenda if i suggested that). On closer reading, i think that's all for now (i did indeed imply more in my initial comment, but that was after a very hasty reading of the start of the article, so i retract that, sorry). The image bothers me a bit though since it's quite prominent. PaulVanDerWalt (talk) 18:23, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

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