| Revision as of 12:38, 13 April 2015 editEric Corbett (talk | contribs)45,616 edits →African american men in computer science: delete← Previous edit | Revision as of 14:11, 13 April 2015 edit undoGRuban (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers31,400 edits D, and add a word to previous opinionNext edit → | ||
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| *'''Keep but merge''' into a single list of African-American computer scientists, and delete all non-bluelinked entries. The low representation of African-Americans in computer science is well-known, problematic, and not likely to be difficult to find sources for (e.g. Google gives me 100k hits for the exact phrase "African-American computer scientists"). The low representation of women in computer science is also well known, problematic, and easily sourced. But it's not clear to me that when we start intersecting categories like this, that we still have notability: what are the issues that specifically affect African-American men in computer science, but are not common to African-American men in other STEM fields, or to other African-American computer scientists? And where do we list the computer scientists who don't identify as part of the traditional gender scale (if any of those happen also to be African-American)? Additionally, with many unsourced redlinked and unlinked entries (and many more people that could be added), we have issues with ] and ]. Incidentally, these lists are currently far from complete: several additional names can be found by searching Misplaced Pages for the phrases "African-American" and "computer scientist". —] (]) 05:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | *'''Keep but merge''' into a single list of African-American computer scientists, and delete all non-bluelinked entries. The low representation of African-Americans in computer science is well-known, problematic, and not likely to be difficult to find sources for (e.g. Google gives me 100k hits for the exact phrase "African-American computer scientists"). The low representation of women in computer science is also well known, problematic, and easily sourced. But it's not clear to me that when we start intersecting categories like this, that we still have notability: what are the issues that specifically affect African-American men in computer science, but are not common to African-American men in other STEM fields, or to other African-American computer scientists? And where do we list the computer scientists who don't identify as part of the traditional gender scale (if any of those happen also to be African-American)? Additionally, with many unsourced redlinked and unlinked entries (and many more people that could be added), we have issues with ] and ]. Incidentally, these lists are currently far from complete: several additional names can be found by searching Misplaced Pages for the phrases "African-American" and "computer scientist". —] (]) 05:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| * '''Delete''' both non-notable. --] (]) 11:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | * '''Delete''' both non-notable. --] (]) 11:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Delete''' this ridiculous of people who don't meet WP's notability guidelines. ] ] 12:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | *'''Delete''' this ridiculous list of people who don't meet WP's notability guidelines. ] ] 12:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Delete'', per nominator's points. Most importantly, I do not think the article has shown that merely being an African American with a PhD in CS is notable enough for other ] to cover this list. As sources we have 1 survey that lists tenure-track professors (which is not the same as PhD in CS; there are plenty of CS PhDs that aren't professors), and one personal web page, that lists "The African Diaspora" (which is not the same as African-Americans - for example it lists at least one Nigerian). And we have the personal say so of a volunteer. So basically this list is ]. Give two articles in reliable sources that make such a list, and I'll change my opinion. --] (]) 14:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 14:11, 13 April 2015
African american men in computer science
- African american men in computer science (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
- African American women in computer science (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
African american men in computer science, and it's counterpart African American women in computer science are lists of non-notable people, on this list because they have achieved a Ph.D. While that is no small undertaking, particularly in an underrepresented demographic in the computer science industry, that does not equate to Misplaced Pages notability. An argument could be made for an article to generally discuss the underrepresentation of African-Americans in the Computer Sciences Industries, but a blanket list of those who have achieved a Ph.D. in that field is not the way to go about it.
Further, there are some BLP issues, as these are effectively unsourced or poorly sourced lists of people. kelapstick 13:38, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Delete Not enough reliable 2nd or 3rd party sources to justify all the people on this list. Fails WP:N The article is essentially a regurgitation of the list from Reference #1. At most reference #1 could be noted in Digital divide, which FWIW, is not very well written. Tapered (talk) 21:29, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Delete Both I actually considered nominating African American women in computer science for deletion shortly after it was created, but with no apparent precendent on this type of page, I wasn't sure it was appropriate and decided to do nothing instead. However, my original concern (and my reason for !voting delete) is that we would never have an article called Caucasian American women in computer science, and while I understand African American's are a minority, that does not somehow make them anymore notable than the majority population. In the same regard that it's not appropriate to assume white people are more notable for being a majority, it's not appropriate to assume black people are more notable because they are a minority. So, if we keep this article, than the counterpart article for every race/demographic would also be appropriate, imagine the list of all those people with PhD's!!! I also would like to point out that the creator of these articles included themselves on the list at African American women in computer science, one Quincy K. Brown. So there are also COI issues. -War wizard90 (talk) 04:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
- (See below). The page was created as a part of
- Delete Both Almost all use none at all, self-published, or otherwise questionable sources. One heavily used source reads:
This is a personal website, not a reliable source. Also, it's talking about the African Diaspora, not African Americans. Lastly, if it remains, there's plenty of names to add, begging the question of reliability for his website and the other source about the number in academia, so I'll just leave these lists here: ― Padenton|✉ 15:12, 11 April 2015 (UTC)This list is based in part on a list compiled by Dr. Scott Williams, Professor of Mathematics at State University of New York at Buffalo: "Computer Scientists of the African Diaspora". SUNY Buffalo - Mathematicians of the African Diaspora. 2008. Retrieved 2015-02-25. As of 2008, Dr. Scott considered his list to be a complete list of all the known African Americans holding PhDs in computer science.
- Glad you are finding more recent information! If you can find a current source with listings and exact numbers of African American CS PhDs, that would certainly be a help in improving the page. Do note that people attending an editathon have to work with what they have access to on the spot, and rely on others to improve what they have started afterwards.
- Also, the fact that you do not realize why the first African American PhD, or the number of African Americans in a profession is particularly significant is actually an encouraging sign. African Americans in the US were specifically barred from certain higher educational institutions, and thus from certain professions under segregation in the US. Other minorities did not always face the same levels of discrimination as African Americans. For people of a certain age in the US, it goes without saying that the moment when an educational institution or a profession actually opens up for everyone to participate is when the African Americans are welcomed. --Djembayz (talk) 04:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- Strong Keep for Upcoming Event. This is needed for Misplaced Pages:Meetup/DC/Tech LadyMafia Edit-a-thon, April 2015: Women in Tech, coming up next Friday. Also, I don't understand why you think a computer science professor would be an unreliable source for names of other colleagues in the field. This is a pretty small group of people, most of whom would know each other, and most of whom would only be documented in this fashion. We're not talking about writing individual articles for all of the people on the list, we're talking about a baseline list that gives us something to build on for an underrepresented group, for whom few sources are available. Please note that it is sufficiently rare for African American women to receive doctorates in computer science that we were urged to further develop this topic at an editathon oh the Lost History of African Americans in STEM fields with the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, Tue Feb 24. Although we all hope that the day will come when an African American getting a PhD in computer science is an everyday occurence, even in 2013 a women were still in the process of breaking the color barrier when the first African American woman received CS PhD at an institution the size of Michigan State. Fifty-six practitioners in a field as of 2008 is not very many!
- I would hope that Misplaced Pages would view breaking the color barrier as a notable activity, because if we don't, it doesn't speak very well for our commitment to diversity. --Djembayz (talk) 03:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- Keep but merge into a single list of African-American computer scientists, and delete all non-bluelinked entries. The low representation of African-Americans in computer science is well-known, problematic, and not likely to be difficult to find sources for (e.g. Google gives me 100k hits for the exact phrase "African-American computer scientists"). The low representation of women in computer science is also well known, problematic, and easily sourced. But it's not clear to me that when we start intersecting categories like this, that we still have notability: what are the issues that specifically affect African-American men in computer science, but are not common to African-American men in other STEM fields, or to other African-American computer scientists? And where do we list the computer scientists who don't identify as part of the traditional gender scale (if any of those happen also to be African-American)? Additionally, with many unsourced redlinked and unlinked entries (and many more people that could be added), we have issues with WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Incidentally, these lists are currently far from complete: several additional names can be found by searching Misplaced Pages for the phrases "African-American" and "computer scientist". —David Eppstein (talk) 05:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- Delete both non-notable. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 11:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- Delete this ridiculous list of people who don't meet WP's notability guidelines. Eric Corbett 12:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- 'Delete, per nominator's points. Most importantly, I do not think the article has shown that merely being an African American with a PhD in CS is notable enough for other Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources to cover this list. As sources we have 1 survey that lists tenure-track professors (which is not the same as PhD in CS; there are plenty of CS PhDs that aren't professors), and one personal web page, that lists "The African Diaspora" (which is not the same as African-Americans - for example it lists at least one Nigerian). And we have the personal say so of a volunteer. So basically this list is Wikipedi:Original research. Give two articles in reliable sources that make such a list, and I'll change my opinion. --GRuban (talk) 14:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)