User talk:Flyer22 Frozen: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 07:48, 26 April 2015 view sourceFlyer22 Frozen (talk \| contribs)365,630 edits →Hi ← Previous edit		Revision as of 07:53, 26 April 2015 view source Flyer22 Frozen (talk \| contribs)365,630 edits →Hi: RoniA20 WP:Sockpuppet investigation: Tweak/Typo fix,Next edit →
Line 419:		Line 419:
	So now I have decided that i don't want anything to do with wiki - since apparently, as i see it, wiki is controlled by a bunch brutal and dictatorial mafia... AND I WANT TO DELETE ALL THE HISTORY THAT HAD TO DO WITH ME- which include the pages that you have redo...--] (]) 07:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)		So now I have decided that i don't want anything to do with wiki - since apparently, as i see it, wiki is controlled by a bunch brutal and dictatorial mafia... AND I WANT TO DELETE ALL THE HISTORY THAT HAD TO DO WITH ME- which include the pages that you have redo...--] (]) 07:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

	:Hello, ], I reverted you and because I initially considered it ]. Perhaps I still do. You are not the one who should be removing those ] tags. I reverted you because you'd commented in the archives and commenting in the archives is usually not something we should do here at Misplaced Pages. See about commenting in the archives of a WP:Sockpuppet investigation. You can, however, use the archive's talk page to comment. And make sure you ] the relevant editors, since the archive regarding your WP:Sockpuppet investigation does not have a lot of ]. I put it on my WP:Watchlist after reverting you. I also reverted you because it is inappropriate to request to have the page deleted in a closed case.		:Hello, ]. I reverted you and because I initially considered it ]. Perhaps I still do. You are not the one who should be removing those ] tags. I reverted you because you'd commented in the archives and commenting in the archives is usually not something we should do here at Misplaced Pages. See about commenting in the archives of a WP:Sockpuppet investigation. You can, however, use the archive's talk page to comment. And make sure you ] the relevant editors, since the archive regarding your WP:Sockpuppet investigation does not have a lot of ]. I put it on my WP:Watchlist after reverting you. I also reverted you because it is inappropriate to request to have the page deleted in a closed case.

	:On a side note: I altered the heading of your title with ": RoniA20 ]" so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about and will easier to locate once archived. ] (]) 07:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)		:On a side note: I altered the heading of your title with ": RoniA20 ]" so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about and will be easier to locate once archived. ] (]) 07:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 07:53, 26 April 2015

CAN'T RETIRE Flyer22 Frozen tried to leave Misplaced Pages, but found that she couldn't do so…

Welcome to my talk page. I have been editing Misplaced Pages since 2007. If you want to know more about me, see my user page. My work on Misplaced Pages, like a lot of others, has been complimented and criticized. And in March 2012, I was blocked; see the block cases. It's during that first block case that I learned a lot about WP:Assume good faith and who you can count on to be there for you; that experience has made me more acrimonious towards Misplaced Pages, and this feeling was intensified with my second block case (again, refer to the block cases link). Still, I believe that it's best that I help this site, seeing as many people come here for information (Misplaced Pages is almost always ranking highest in search engines, and that type of thing is always going to bring in a lot of readers) and a lot of those people trust what they read here. So it's my job to make sure that any topic I am heavily editing is as accurate as possible. Especially see User:Flyer22#Main type of editing style for why what you consider neutral, or what you consider needed with regard to images, likely differs from my view; don't know about you, but I'm following Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines in that regard. If you have any questions, compliments or criticism concerning my Misplaced Pages work, feel free to leave me a message here on my talk page or email me. If you leave me a message here, I will usually reply here.

about the abstinence

You know, sockpuppetry is a serious accusation, and I don't like being accused of it. I can assure you, Ajortiz2 is not me. I respect the rules of Misplaced Pages. I haven't even been blocked, so I have no need to create a sock. Regards, Cali11298 (talk) 05:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Cali11298, whether you are Ajortiz2 (talk · contribs) or not (and Ajortiz2 has clearly added text that you would object to, so you likely are not him), you still are not new to editing Misplaced Pages. I made that clear at the Abstinence-only sex education talk page without calling you a WP:Sockpuppet. Do I trust you? Not in the least. And your initial reply there spoke volumes. This edit summary was a warning regarding the both of you; I suggest you heed it. Flyer22 (talk) 06:07, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Also, if you do not know who I was referencing with regard to Ajortiz, then you should look at A.scooter.rieser (talk · contribs) and compare this edit to this edit. It's either WP:Student editing (the same class) or WP:Sockpuppeting. I removed the other text here. Flyer22 (talk) 06:25, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Note for this section: More on this matter is below at #This is Jhamilton. Buddy, you had a chance. Flyer22 (talk) 02:27, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Use of the term "mistress"

Aloha. Since you have knowledge on the topic of human sexuality (and seem to focus on it), I would like to ask your advice about the use of the term "mistress". I'm currently working on several articles related to Pierre-Auguste Renoir. One of them concerns a model he used in his early work, Lise Tréhot. For some reason, she is often referred to in the literature (but not always) as his "mistress", but that doesn't make sense to me as that term has a general usage and definition. As far as I know, Renoir was 1) not married at the time of their relationship, and 2) she was not "kept" by him because 3) he was poor. However, it is very possible that she was supported by the wealth of his friend, Jules Le Cœur, who was involved in a relationship with her sister, and it seems that they were all staying with the Le Cœur's in one of their properties somewhere. In any case, why does the literature refer to Tréhot as Renoir's mistress instead of as his lover or girlfriend or partner? Is this because of the historical bias against unmarried couples? If you could look into this, I would appreciate it. I would prefer not to use this term for the above reasons, and many others. Viriditas (talk) 22:07, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Viriditas, I'll look into it and get back to you on this. Given that the term mistress usually has the connotations currently made clear in the Mistress (lover) article, I would not use that term unless the man was married and was bedding the other woman. Flyer22 (talk) 23:43, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I agree. I wonder if the term has changed quite a bit since the 1860s. Perhaps, back then, it was used to refer to unmarried lovers? Viriditas (talk) 23:57, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Update: newer sources (2014) don't use the term mistress. This source uses "girlfriend", which I find to be more accurate. Viriditas (talk) 01:21, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

So you consider this matter settled? I haven't found anything significant in this regard -- about why she was referred to as a mistress. Flyer22 (talk) 01:37, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Pretty much, yes. It seems that after 2003 when new information came about Lise, the term wasn't used as much. I'm starting to think that many of these authors used the term only because their sources used it, not because they themselves decided it was accurate or correct. I'm guessing there's a lot of laziness going on here. In the newer sources, I'm seeing terms like companion, lover, partner, girlfriend, but rarely, if ever mistress, since after all, she was never a mistress. Viriditas (talk) 01:44, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I had nothin to do with this editin

Hi Friend

I was notified that "my" editin was changed here http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Professional&diff=next&oldid=579542781

However I have never been to that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamcredible (talk • contribs) 14:52, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Iamcredible (talk · contribs), then it must have been someone else operating that IP. It's common for IP addresses to be assigned to different people, especially if they are dynamic IPs. Flyer22 (talk) 17:44, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

advice requested on youngest parents lists

Hi Flyer22,

In the Wiki-article "List of youngest mothers", I noticed you removed a reference from the lead, regarding a survey of DNA-tested families. You may be technically right to do so, because the lead should not contain content absent from the main table. But thereby, two problems remain on Misplaced Pages: first, none of the listed motherhood claims appear to be confirmed by DNA testing. And secondly, related to this defect, there is no equivalent Wikipage "List of Youngest Fathers" (See discussion section, where another user has made this complaint). Do you have a suggestion how to integrate state-of the art DNA evidence, and how to deal with the fathers?

86.154.101.56 (talk · contribs), you should be discussing this at the List of youngest birth mothers talk page instead of at mine. But to answer your questions: I don't see why the content I reverted you on should be in the List of youngest birth mothers article. That article is a list, and the content you added seems misplaced. I also wonder how I should judge that source on the WP:MEDRS scale. That stated, as noted here at Talk:List of youngest birth mothers, I have asked WP:Med about the List of youngest birth mothers article, and they didn't seem to care much about it. I think that the article should be deleted as unnecessary, or that it should be turned into an actual article; by that, I mean a non-list. As for creating a List of youngest fathers or List of youngest birth fathers article, you are aware that this was already addressed and responded to. If you want it created, you can be WP:Bold and create it, but I think that it will be deleted. Flyer22 (talk) 06:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Only Human (Delta Goodrem song)

Thank you for notifying me about the change you made to Only Human (Delta Goodrem song), but my contribution was most certainly not vandalism nor experimental. I made a correction to the erroneous spelling of Vince Pizzinga's name. It would have been nice if you had made some attempt to verify this before blindly undoing my contribution. In any case, it has since been re-corrected - interestingly, you didn't think to undo that particular edit. Please remember this in future when attempting to undo others' work. 86.26.98.23 (talk) 18:52, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Gender#Gender_identity

I'd recommend starting an SPI for this if the behavior follows an obvious pattern. I would look into this myself, but I do not have a great deal of time these days, and have been experiencing a lot of computer problems recently, making it difficult for me to pretty much do anything on Misplaced Pages or otherwise (and is extremely frustrating). I, JethroBT 19:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Regarding this, I JethroBT, I know what to do if it becomes a significant annoyance. After all, I recently dealt with a stalker case (two actually). Those two editors are still seemingly doing what they can to roam around me even after the strong suggestions that they stay away from the orbit(s) I edit in. That especially goes for one of them in particular; for example, as seen here, here and here. But I suppose I'm like a magnet. I have good stalkers, and then I have the bad ones. Whether or not you could help on this IP case, I wanted to let you know of the registered account that operates that IP range. If that editor didn't want his registered account revealed, it was a dumb slip-up on the part of that editor, at least as far it comes to not being more careful to conceal multiple identities around me. Thanks for weighing in. I hope your computer problems clear up and that you're doing well. Flyer22 (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

This is Jhamilton. Buddy, you had a chance.

I warned you to stop harassing me. I've written a report about your abuses against me at this page. You had your chance. Now you'll see what happens when you harass other users who have do no wrong – except maybe they bruised that big ego of yours. Jhamilton303 (talk) 00:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, this is fun. You must love digging yourself into deep holes. Flyer22 (talk) 00:47, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Note for this section: The result is here. Flyer22 (talk) 02:25, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Sock warning

I saw your warning at the Rolling Stone article page. Any guidelines for IDing the sock? Which account/s there are suspected, if you can say. Thanks! Capitalismojo (talk) 04:01, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see. C..... Did you include at sock investigations? Capitalismojo (talk) 04:06, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Capitalismojo, this revised version of what I posted is not what I would call a warning; it's an alert. I alerted the talk pages of all four of the articles that Beyond My Ken (BMK) named (seen at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Cali11298/Archive). I also very recently expanded the section on my user page about spotting WP:Sockpuppets (followup edits here and here). That section can help you. So can WP:Signs of sock puppetry and WP:Duck; those are WP:Essays. There are no WP:Guidelines for spotting WP:Sockpuppets. I recommend that you do not directly accuse anyone of being a WP:Sockpuppet unless you are certain and have valid WP:Duck evidence and/or so-called harder evidence. Otherwise, you might get in trouble for a WP:Assume good faith violation, whether by being taken to WP:ANI or otherwise. I am always prepared when I imply that someone is a WP:Sockpuppet or when I accuse someone of WP:Sockpuppetry. I was prepared for the #about the abstinence case even before that editor insulted my intelligence by blatantly WP:Sockpuppeting after I warned him to heed my statement that WP:Sockpuppeting will not fool me. Yes, I stated that this other editor is not entirely new to editing Misplaced Pages; I stand by that. Also keep in mind that not all non-new returning Misplaced Pages editors are WP:Sockpuppets. By the way, despite that other editor referring to me as a he, I am a she. Flyer22 (talk) 04:28, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the alert and for the links above. Capitalismojo (talk) 18:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Not that I'm accusing you of anything, but I do find the timing of this and this to be odd. You both hadn't edited for hours (stopped editing the same hour) and then showed up at almost exactly the same time to edit regarding this non-new editor matter. Flyer22 (talk) 18:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I have been editing for eight years (12,000+ edits) never with a block, warning, or suggestion of socking. I am quite proud of my editing record and frankly really resent even the implied suggestion. I suggest you look over my edit history and revisit the comment above. Capitalismojo (talk) 23:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I have looked over your edit history, but this discussion is done. Flyer22 (talk) 23:46, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Really. I'm in Madison, Wisconsin. I have no idea where the sock is, although he says he's on the (east?) coast. A check user could immediately tell we are not the same, I'd like to request a checkuser if you don't remove the implication above. Capitalismojo (talk) 23:51, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

~~What are you talking about on the supposedly odd timing? There are ten hours between the timing on the two diffs you put up. Ten.~~ Capitalismojo (talk) 23:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

~~First diff "04:56, 10 April 2015 (UTC)" by Cavalierman. My edit "18:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)"~~ Capitalismojo (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

The first diff shows "18:11, 10 April 2015"; the second diff shows "18:12, 10 April 2015." That is one minute or less between edits. If you two are not the same person, then you have nothing to worry about. I queried the odd timing, which does not necessarily mean WP:Sockpuppetry. Again, I am done with this discussion. I will not be striking anything I stated above. Flyer22 (talk) 00:07, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, you're right. Looked at the wrong place. It does look odd. It's not, but I understand. I have stricken my error, for which I apologize. I am done here as well. (By the way I agree with your assessment of the other editor and suggest adding him to the investigation.) Capitalismojo (talk) 00:16, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Conflicting edits on Sex in Space article

We seem to be colliding on edits for the Sex in Space article. Some of the problem may be that we're working at cross purposes: I am trying to improve the citations and get the existing content better arranged, which sometimes takes several cuts. Unfortunately, we seem to be working at the same time. Let's try this: you do all your edits and release the article, and then I'll come back and do what I think works, and then you take a look at it again. What do you think? —Molly-in-md (talk) 15:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Molly-in-md, I'd prefer that this be discussed at the article talk page, where others watching that article (or those who come across it) will have clear access to the discussion. Yes, I reverted you here (followup edits here, here and here), and I explained why: Your WP:Lead was poorer than the previous WP:Lead. Per MOS:Paragraphs, I'm also not a fan of subsections for a little bit of material, but I left the subsection headings alone, except for the repeat text. I am not significantly interested in that article, but I WP:Watch it, just like I WP:Watch a lot of other Misplaced Pages sexual articles, and I disagree with your WP:Lead. Flyer22 (talk) 16:02, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

The reason I posted here rather than the article's talk page was that a) I think we're mostly colliding in edits rather than article content and b) you'd get notification that I'd left a message on your talk page but wouldn't necessarily see that I'd written on the article's talk page.
AFA the lead, I wasn't finished. The opening paragraph in the existing lead (which you reverted) is clearly not a good lead paragraph because it discusses only info that is not in the article (Newton's third law) and doesn't mention other issues from the body; IOW, it doesn't follow WP:Lead. I'm working on that, in addition to the citation improvements and so on. I hadn't added a GOCEinuse tag because nobody had touched the article in several weeks, and my changes were only going to maybe half an hour.
So, just let me know when you are done with your edits (since I see you had some tweaks), and I'll start again but this time post a GOCEinuse tag. I'll remove it when I'm done -- and probably post here on your talk page, too -- and then you can reevaluate instead of jumping in part way through. Okay?
— Molly-in-md (talk) 16:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Molly-in-md, in my opinion, this still should have been taken to the article talk page. Because I suspected that you would bring this to my talk page, I was tempted to use an edit summary (possibly a WP:Dummy edit) to request that you do not bring the matter to my talk page. I've done similar with other editors. I didn't state that the current WP:Lead of that article is a good WP:Lead (I know what a good WP:Lead is); I stated that your WP:Lead is worse. From what I can see, it is. Your lead started off talking about debates without even adequately explaining the difficulties of sex in space, difficulties that are addressed in one way or another lower in the article. Yes, I am done with the article for now; I already noted to you that I am not significantly interested in the article (it's clear that I don't heavily edit it). So you are free to improve the article in peace. That stated, if you craft a poor WP:Lead, I will change it. If I see a lot of unnecessary subheadings, I will reduce them. Flyer22 (talk) 16:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

And I reiterate that the article is on my WP:Watchlist; so I will see edits made to it and its talk page. WP:Pinging, while it doesn't always work, is an option in cases where you doubt that an editor will see a talk page section. In this case, however, you don't have to WP:Ping me. Flyer22 (talk) 16:33, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Molly-in-md, I apologize if I came off as confrontational to you above. I honestly don't care much about that article. You are certainly free to improve it. If I disagree with something you do there, I will address it on the article's talk page. I, however, think that the initial sentence (WP:Lead sentence) is better off linking to the Human sexual activity article, mentioning something about weightlessness, "the extreme environments of outer space" and the "difficulties for the performance of most sexual activities." Something like that. Or that the first two sentences should address that. Flyer22 (talk) 20:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Taking you to judicial board

Im taking you to jboard due to your repeated disrespect. https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Flyer22

Cavalierman (talk) 03:07, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah. Flyer22 (talk) 03:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

ANI: question about your user page

I pinged you on the ANI discussion earlier. If you don't want to remove the material I was asking about, maybe you can at least say why you think it's important to keep it. Thanks, Samsara 09:35, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

@Samsara: - Your question, assumptions and intimidation are what's uncalled for. Either drop this line of bs or get ready to support your obvious intimidation tactics at ANI. Dave Dial (talk) 16:42, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

apology

Even though you are wrong, it does not excuse insulting you. I am sorry. Cavalierman (talk) 17:02, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Minas Gerais, information

I did not delete information. I replaced it with more accurate information. The former information was not only misleading (it implied something which is not), it focused on a single group, whereas this new study is about all of Minas Gerais, hence more informative. Just this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.36.96.231 (talk • contribs)

Thank you for explaining, though I'm not sure about your change. I reverted you here and here because you hadn't explained. Flyer22 (talk) 23:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi! Be sure the replacement was better. The article is about Minas Gerais. I posted a recent genetic study covering all of Minas Gerais. Before there were 2 studies (one about "whites" from Minas Gerais, with a false conclusion that they were significantly different from other "whites" from Brazil) and another one about all of Brazil). Best regards! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.36.96.231 (talk • contribs)

Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Cali11298

If you change the status of a case at SPI again, you risk being blocked.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:14, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Bbb23, this is not a blockable offense. And your warning here and above is out of line. But I shouldn't be surprised that you would behave this way after our recent disagreements. Any block you make on me will see me calling the case a WP:INVOLVED case. If you don't think that a WP:INVOLVED claim would work, you should think again. Flyer22 (talk) 02:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

For the future, read the following Misplaced Pages pages: WP:SPI/C#Role and responsibilities of SPI Clerks and Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Clerk and checkuser procedures#Patrolling. Don't let your obsession with this editor impair your judgment. It's not that I don't sympathize with what you've had to put up with, but you can't resort to disruptive behavior because of it.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Bbb23 (last time WP:Pinging you to this discussion because I assume that you will check back here if you want to read replies), it's best not to point me to Misplaced Pages pages as though I am a WP:Newbie. It's best not to patronize me. It's best not to talk down to me in any other way. It's best not to call my interest in the Cali11298 account and/or the Cavalierman account an obsession. And it's best not to call me WP:Disruptive for removing your close tag because I felt that it was better that the case remain open long enough for Reaper Eternal to clarify matters. I was not obsessed with either account, and, indeed, editors who weighed in on these matters are clear that these accounts have been obsessed with me. Whether it's my involvement with you back in 2011, my disagreement with the way you apply the WP:3RR policy, this aforementioned case, or how you reacted toward me in the Cali11298 WP:Sockpuppet investigation, you and I have always had a fragile working relationship. In fact, our working relationship reminds me of another working relationship I had with a WP:Administrator. My working relationship with you improved when you were helping out a lot with the Talk:Men's rights movement/Article probation matter; for example, this case. But it's not the same now. And I doubt it ever will be again. Flyer22 (talk) 03:54, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

If you do not want editors to point you to Wiki policies, then perhaps you should not have reverted a SPI close by a SPI clerk/CU? I must say, you act as if keeping that case open was the only way to contact the CU, when the CU has a Talk page. Or you could have done what both Ken and I have done and checked the actions by Reaper Eternal's log and see the CU block made for the other sock. In any case, being hostile towards Bbb23 and other editors for merely performing tasks and doing what needs to be done, doesn't help you. Your complete misreading of the situation, SPI revert, and then hostility, could have all been avoided each step of the way just by stating "my bad, sorry". Instead of the escalation. Dave Dial (talk) 04:14, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

I'd contacted Reaper Eternal elsewhere. And I felt that it was best that the reason for the indefinite block on the Cali11298 account be clarified in that case instead of disjointed. I saw the opportunity to point out there that the Cali11298 account had been indefinitely blocked and to ask Reaper Eternal questions there, before the case was archived. I disagree that I have been hostile to Bbb23 in this section. And in any case, I am the one thoroughly familiar with how my working relationship with him has been. Flyer22 (talk) 04:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

That stated, I do understand where you are coming from on this matter, DD2K (Dave Dial). I can get defensive, and I know it. I've admitted to it more than once on my talk page. But WP:SPI/C#Role and responsibilities of SPI Clerks and Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Clerk and checkuser procedures#Patrolling are not policies, and I don't see how they support Bbb23's reaction to me in this regard. There are various WP:Administrators who would not have reacted the way that Bbb23 reacted; they would not have warned me like I am some inexperienced Wikipedian that needs a slap on the wrist. And they certainly would not have blocked me. They might have let the investigation stay open longer because of my questions; there are WP:Administrators who have done similar for editors. Because of this, I cannot help but think that my "sometimes poor" working relationship with Bbb23 factored into him acting the way he did with me concerning the aforementioned WP:Sockpuppet case. Either way, Reaper Eternal answered my queries, and this case is obviously over. Flyer22 (talk) 05:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I see that Bbb23 has asked another WP:Administrator whether or not he would be WP:INVOLVED if he blocked me. Well, just as I've seen Misplaced Pages editors (including WP:Administrators) have different interpretations of what a WP:3RR violation is (the same goes for other policies), I've seen Misplaced Pages editors (including WP:Administrators) have different interpretations of what WP:INVOLVED is (especially when it is applied to them). The other case I mentioned above is one such case, and that WP:Administrator also assured me that he didn't remember our disputes. Other WP:Administrators disagreed with him when looking over our histories. Bbb23, I suggest that you don't take the wording "working relationship" too seriously. I certainly would not call that other relationship a true "working relationship." Perhaps I should have stated "interactions." Whether you would be WP:INVOLVED or not, I feel that you overreacted. Flyer22 (talk) 12:37, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Side note: Because it is a recent development and I don't WP:Watch his user page/talk page, I didn't know until an hour ago (after re-looking at his user page) that Bbb23 is a WP:CheckUser. Flyer22 (talk) 01:33, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

CheckUser is not magic pixie dust and IPs can be spoofed. There are some similarities that cannot be considered as coincidence. First edit was the creation of userpage., All I would say is wait for sometime, collect more evidence, then discuss with a checkuser before another SPI is filed. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Note: Yet another reason for Bbb23 to stay away from me, and to quit WP:Watching my user talk page. I don't want to read anything about how I am overreacting regarding Bbb23, or what a supposedly good WP:Administrator he is. To close that thread the way that he did, knowing how the archive in question will be perceived, and how that WP:Sockpuppet hangs on his every word because that WP:Sockpuppet used his words to mock me, is a mess. I've been clear above in this section that Bbb23 behaves toward me in the same ways that the aforementioned WP:Desysopped WP:Administrator did. And he does. Flyer22 (talk) 22:16, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

If what editors suggested to me about replying in the archive is valid, then wow. Awkward. Flyer22 (talk) 06:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Clarified. Flyer22 (talk) 23:41, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Cali11298

Looking at Reaper Eternal's log, the sock seems to be User:Redhood6889. User:69.141.77.252 may also be involved too, although it's harder to be sure. BMK (talk) 03:32, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken (BMK), just in case you are not WP:Watching the A Rape on Campus article, I'm letting you know here that Cali11298 has created yet another WP:Sockpuppet; this one was simply to taunt me. And he was as foolish with his transparency this time as he was before. With the way that he went on about me needing psychological help, he reminded me of Cavalierman. But, as we know, Cavalierman has been cleared. Furthermore, I did not have a strong suspicion that Cavalierman is Cali11298; if I had, I would have stated it. I've been clear that I've had a strong suspicion that Cavalierman is not entirely new to editing Misplaced Pages. But I noted in the latest Cali11298 WP:Sockpuppet investigation that I've dropped the Cavalierman angle. Two WP:CheckUsers (including Reaper Eternal) have informed me that the technical data is not there as far as comparing him to the Cali11298 account goes. Flyer22 (talk) 14:07, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Pinging Beyond My Ken (BMK) as a test. Flyer22 (talk) 23:47, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Bikini

I hope you remember the article. I has just been promoted to be a GA. I thought you would like to know. Aditya 17:32, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Aditya, it's still on my WP:Watchlist. Although I knew that it 'd reached WP:Good article status, I thank you for thinking of me and wanting to let me know of its upgraded status. Your hard work on the article has clearly paid off. Great job. Flyer22 (talk) 23:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Titanic

My edit was based purely on the belief that the release section (as it was) seemed overly massive to me. Thus, I thought it would have been best to equally divide it into two sections, with 3 subsections in each one; one section focusing specifically on the film's releases (original theatrical, home media, and 3D reissue) and the other section on how the film was received (box office, critical, accolades). ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 02:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Jedi94, thanks for explaining, but this is a matter for the article talk page. That's what I meant by "Discuss on the talk page." Personally, I prefer the current, more chronological setup. And since it's all "release" material, I often dislike the "Release" and "Reception" split. I've also disliked that some editors try to make every film article look the same, despite MOS:FILM being clear that variation is allowed. You can see my comments on such matters, here and here. That stated, I am open to discussing this. If you are still interested in changing that article's release/reception setup, I suggest you take the matter to the article talk page. I'll essentially repeat there what I stated here on this topic. Flyer22 (talk) 02:46, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

No, it's fine. I'm not strongly passionate about changing it—that's why I discussed it here, as opposed to the film's talk page. The section just seemed too ongoing for my taste. Thank you for your input though. ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 03:01, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Jedi94, I see. Thanks again. As seen in that first discussion I linked you to, these setup disputes are pretty trivial and I'm not fond of arguing over trivial matters. So I do try to compromise in such cases. Flyer22 (talk) 03:07, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

With this edit, I left a note in the article's edit history about this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 03:13, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

don't talk to socks

While I applaud your work to stop sockpuppets, as I mentioned in the admin discussion, I don't see why you have to engage with them. For example, I saw that you invited one Cali puppet to 'come clean and admit it.' Did you really expect him to do so? I would only expect this if he had decided to turn over a new leaf, in which case he would admit it at the start (and also not be fucking up articles). It would probably be better if you didn't interact with with the socks, just try to get rid of them. Dingsuntil (talk) 06:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Dingsuntil, your feedback is fine. But my user page about WP:Sockpuppets is clear that talking to them comes in handy. They commonly make mistakes that allow me to identify them as WP:Sockpuppets. Look at how I engaged with Cali11298 in the #about the abstinence section above. Before he was identified as a WP:Sockpuppet, I set the tone to gauge him and have him more likely to reveal himself as the WP:Sockpuppet that he is. And what happened? He did. I've lost count how many times I have successfully used this tactic. Cali11298 is not the first account he's used, and I wish that I knew what the actual master account is. People have their way(s) of dealing with WP:Sockpuppets; my way works. I won't be dropping it and there is nothing anyone can state to convince me to drop it. My way also worked as recently as this case at WP:AN. So as for what you stated at WP:ANI, here and here, that is not always, or even mostly, the best way to combat WP:Sockpuppetry. As for Cavalierman: Like I mentioned in the #Cali11298 section and elsewhere, I never called him a WP:Sockpuppet (except for stating at WP:ANI that I believe he is one). I implied it, but the possibility that he is a returning editor who is not a WP:Sockpuppet was also on my mind. Either way, he has been cleared as far as being a WP:Sockpuppet of Cali11298 goes. Flyer22 (talk) 07:09, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Per WP:AGF, suppose Cav is real new user, just a bit bro-ey, trollish, and with a minor case of Knowing What's Right. I'm sure you can see how suggesting he was a sock (which I don't think is significantly different from claiming it, for purposes of interacting with people) is not likely to bring him to Jesus, and in fact calculated to endanger his wiki-soul. Just think carefully about whether the net result is positive and/or higher than your other options. Dingsuntil (talk) 17:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Dingsuntil, thanks for your perspective on this. My user page about WP:Sockpuppetry is clear that I do not apply WP:Assume good faith in cases where I am sure that it should not be applied. And the WP:Assume good faith guideline is also clear that applying that guideline does not mean blindly applying it. I was 100% certain that Cali11298 was/is a WP:Sockpuppet master (an extremely poor one), and I treated him as one. I am done talking about Cavalierman for the time being. And because my tactics of catching WP:Sockpuppets have repeatedly proven a net benefit for Misplaced Pages, I will be sticking with those tactics. Anyone who has a problem with them is free to report me to WP:ANI; I would also suggest starting a WP:RfC/U on me, but I see that it's a procedure that has been recently shut down. The other option is to try Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests. Flyer22 (talk) 21:57, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm not trying to turn this into an Ordeal by Wikicombat, although if RfC/U not considered that kind of step, maybe I will (Arbitration definitely seems like it). I'm not bothered by you, particularly, but I'm not convinced you're pursuing the max-benefit strategy. For example, keep in mind that Wikimedia is all vapors over trying to get more chicks to edit articles. I'm sure you'll agree that lots of your fellow chicks don't share your hardcore mindset, and could be driven off by particularly harsh accusations of sockpuppetry, or at least more easily than men (Cav doesn't seem to have kept his cool particularly well, but we're talking averages here).

It's also not clear to me that you need to catch all the sockpuppets. I considered the possibility that Cav was a sock, but also noticed that he seemed to be being incrementally persuaded by my "Keeping 'A Rape On Campus' NPOV is better than POV-ing it because the facts prove your point better than anything else" argument. I might well have talked him into playing that article straight, and he'd get the idea about being subtle, and eventually become one of the wikifaithful in the process (to the glory of our Lord Jimbo, whose light shineth upon the dark hearts of trolls and vandals that they may find redemption in His grace). Dingsuntil (talk) 22:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Dingsuntil (last time WP:Pinging you to this section since I assume that you will check back here if you want to read replies), I know what I am doing on such matters. If you want to defend obviously problematic editors and/or give them the benefit of the doubt where they do not deserve it, you are free to do so. But you will not see me doing it. Again, feel free to take me to WP:Arbitration; see how many faults you and others can find, considering that I've caught almost each and every one of the WP:Sockpuppets I initially indicated were WP:Sockpuppets. It will not be difficult for me to provide a list of all of them. That you are here making a big deal out of this and defending WP:Sockpuppets and/or other disruptive editors is only causing me to consider you in a poor light. And your assertion that I am likely driving away female editors is absurd. "Lots of fellow chicks don't share hardcore mindset"? Firstly, it's likely that none of them would appreciate you calling them "chicks." Secondly, you are stereotyping women as though they cannot be as hardcore as I am. Thirdly, as I've mentioned before, working in this predominantly male environment (which is often hostile) day in and day out is what has made me so hardcore on Misplaced Pages. Fourthly, if women cannot have a hardcore mindset at Misplaced Pages, they shouldn't be editing here. That's just the way Misplaced Pages is. If you want it changed, you should be trying that elsewhere. Not at my talk page.

You keep bringing up Cavalierman, as if I believe that he is not a WP:Sockpuppet. I made it clear in the Cali11298 section above: "I did not have a strong suspicion that Cavalierman is Cali11298; if I had, I would have stated it. I've been clear that I've had a strong suspicion that Cavalierman is not entirely new to editing Misplaced Pages." I am not the one who started a WP:Sockpuppet investigation on Cavalierman. I have not pursued Cavalierman. I also have not mentioned anything about a need to catch all WP:Sockpuppets. It would be best that you stop replying on my talk page about this. If you are going to take action against me for catching WP:Sockpuppets almost each and every time that I indicated that someone is a WP:Sockpuppet, then go do that. Stop lecturing me. Flyer22 (talk) 22:57, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

CVC Capital Partners

Hello,

I am trying to update some of the inaccurate information found on Misplaced Pages about CVC Capital and Credit Partners. I have tried numerous times to get this updated, but my changes keep being reverted. Please can you help with this and keep the changes I have made today, 15.04.2015.

Many thanks, Joe Little, CVC Capital Partners http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:217.156.204.68&redirect=no

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.156.204.68 (talk • contribs)

IP, see what Kiwi128 stated on your talk page. You are writing the article like a WP:Advertisement, which is unencyclopedic (see WP:NOTADVERTISING in this case), and you are removing references (though the article could do with more references and better references). Flyer22 (talk) 10:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Also, the history of the company, if there is any to detail with the aid of WP:Reliable sources, should be in the article. That's how Misplaced Pages articles are supposed to be. In other words, the present is not all that should be covered. Flyer22 (talk) 10:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Hans Zimmer

Hi, I edited the hans zimmer page because the information was outdated as he is no longer married. I gleaned this information from various photos of Mr Zimmer attending the 2015 oscars with a woman (Dina De Luca) who is not his wife, daughter or team member. I will most likely be editing the post back to my initial edit. Thank you!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Smjd (talk • contribs)

Smjd (talk · contribs), you need to be going by WP:Reliable sources, not material "gleaned from various photos of Mr Zimmer attending the 2015 oscars with a woman (Dina De Luca) who is not his wife, daughter or team member." Flyer22 (talk) 18:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Laci Green

I removed that section because the "views" that were criticized consisted of one comment this person made on some social media account seven years ago. The section was also inaccurate because it implied that she has a negative view of Islamic people and a positive view of sexism. Reece Leonard (talk) 21:36, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Reece Leonard, after making this edit (followup edits here and here), I changed the text to this. I didn't remove the "has been criticized for her views on sexism and Islam" part because of what you stated above, though; after all, if a WP:Reliable source is reporting on criticism that Green has received, we can report on that; and in that case, it doesn't matter that the criticism was on a social media account, considering that social media is Green's platform. It's not like Green is very famous. And it doesn't matter that it's years old; we report on people's past and present. It's similar to what I told the IP in the #CVC Capital Partners section above. I removed the "has been criticized for her views on sexism and Islam" part because the source points to a post that no longer exists, at least at the URL it has (it's not on Internet Archive either), and because what the source states about the matter is vague. As for the statement implying she has "a positive view of sexism," I didn't think of it like that. It could have easily seemed like the sexism criticism was a male thing; teenage boys and men who disagree with her views on sexism. For example, Misplaced Pages certainly has enough men's rights editors, whose views of sexism deviate from the standard research and framework concerning that topic.

In the future, will you consider taking an article disagreement you have with me to the article talk page? That is usually best so that others watching the article (or those who come across it) will have clear access to the discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 22:11, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

There's some background in this article from Jezebel. I'm not going to cite that, though, because I think Gawker is a crap source. As much as I like to visit Flyer22's talk page (it's got a lot more drama than mine), I agree that this conversation should probably continue on Talk:Laci Green. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:19, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

You know that I appreciate your help any time I can get it, even when you disagree with me, NinjaRobotPirate (though we haven't often disagreed). Thanks. Flyer22 (talk) 23:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I think you made the right edits here. Reece Leonard (talk) 03:17, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Hi. What do you think about using a disambig solution for the current facefucking fracas? If you were to decide on this solution, you would want to think about using either "face fucking" or "facefucking" as the primary target. Using the latter as an example, it would look something like this:

Facefucking may refer to:

Facesitting, a sexual practice in which one partner sits on or over the other's face
Irrumatio, an act of degrading oral sex
Deep-throating, a type of oral sex

This is just one example of solving the conflict. Viriditas (talk) 22:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Feel free, Viriditas, as this might not be a WP:Primary topic matter. As I noted here of the WP:Sockpuppet's disruption, including this warning he placed on my talk page, I will see to it that he is WP:Blocked if no one else does it first. It was idiotic of him to show up out of nowhere and revert me on an obscure, recently created redirect page that I only found because I recently looked at Jim Michael (talk · contribs)'s edit history. Well, now I know that he is following me. As you know, WP:3RR exemption and WP:Block evasion allows me to revert him on the spot of any page he follows me to. I should have reverted him again so that he can report me at WP:ANI and get blocked that way. But right now, I am dealing with things simultaneously, including discussing this matter via email with higherups. Flyer22 (talk) 22:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, but I have little interest in sex-related topics (I'm more interested in things like immunopsychiatry), I just saw the conflict play out and wondered if I could make a helpful suggestion that could put an end to the conflict and make everybody happy. Viriditas (talk) 22:37, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

"I will see to it that he is WP:Blocked if no one else does it first." That empty threat spiked such a laugh I actually snorted some orange juice through my left nostril. Don't listen to him, Viriditas. I'm not a sockpuppet; in fact, this is my only account. I don't know Flyer very well, but evidently he doesn't like it when people don't happen to agree with him. Thefiremanx6 (talk) 22:49, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

It would be good if you learned to admit when you are a WP:Sockpuppet, like this recent WP:Sockpuppet (who, despite being understandably frustrated with me, knows when it's time to be honest). Lying all the time, including to NeilN, is only postponing the inevitable. There is nothing about the Thefiremanx6 account's editing that indicates that it is being operated by a new editor (or a legit editor), despite the Welcome template that Liz gave it. Liz and I have disagreed on WP:Sockpuppet issues, such as WP:Duck. She approaches WP:Sockpuppets softly and gives even the most obvious WP:Sockpuppets and other WP:Disruptive editors the benefit of the doubt, including when there is ample evidence that the person will never become a better Misplaced Pages editor. Her approach has made me think more deeply about WP:Sockpuppet issues and the issue of other WP:Disruptive editors. And I know that the benefit of the doubt should be given in certain cases. But I've continued to stick to my guns on these matters.

That stated, perhaps I should have continued ignoring you in this section, but I decided to give you something else to think about -- honesty. Flyer22 (talk) 06:36, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Thefiremanx6, don't you want to talk some more? Perhaps keep making posts like this that you feel the need to change? This isn't the time to stop being predictable. Before you are WP:Blocked as the WP:Sockpuppet that you are, I'd prefer that we converse a little longer. Every time you show back up, I get a better feel for your personality. You know, your idiosyncrasies and such. For example, the way you like to state "goodbye" in different ways, with a comma after that and before your signature, including in this latest case. Flyer22 (talk) 01:58, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Flyer, although my distaste for you as a fellow editor is brobdingnagian, as is my distaste for your baseless ad infinitum slanderous accusations against me, I want to tell you that this is not personal. I just call things as I see them, which is why I reverted you that time. I'll tell you again: I'm not a sock. You would have much more friendly chats here if you toned down your holier-than-thou attitude, as well as accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a sock. Looking at your editing history, I've noticed another difference between us, which is how objective we are with regard to our beliefs. I know you live in Florida (looking at your user bio), and I know the heat can be overwhelming sometimes. I suggest you stay out of the sun, I think that heat is getting to your head. Thefiremanx6 (talk) 02:46, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Thefiremanx6, we established at the Abstinence-only sex education talk page that you are not the least bit objective. As for my objectivity, various editors can speak positively of that since I follow the WP:Neutral policy the way that it is supposed to be followed. You are Cali11298, and, unless you have a rock-solid WP:Proxy or virtual private network (VPN), you better be prepared to WP:Blocked as a WP:Sockpuppet of Cali11298. Just like I gave you a chance to admit to WP:Sockpuppetry on your user talk page the very first time I confronted you about the matter, I am giving you a chance to admit to it now. Stop lying so much. The truth will set you free. After all, if you think that any editor will be stupid enough believe that this edit compared to this edit, and this "Adios" signature compared to this "Adios" signature, are from two different people, the truth is the only logical route for you to take. Then again, you could go and report me at WP:ANI so that you can be WP:Blocked that way. So what is it going to be? Flyer22 (talk) 03:13, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Spare me the sentimentality, I won't admit to something that I did not do, Flyer. And believe me, a lot of people use the word adios, it doesn't mean that I'm this Cali person. This whole tirade of yours is the hobgoblin of little minds. Thefiremanx6 (talk) 03:37, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

That's your answer, is it? Those WP:Diff-links represent coincidences?

You lie too much, and you can't even lie in a convincing way. Well, in any case, this section will serve as a case study with regard to a certain type of WP:Sockpuppet. Flyer22 (talk) 03:42, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

And, I dream of horses, thanks again for this. Flyer22 (talk) 03:47, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Eh, no problem. You are welcome! I dream of horses If you reply here, please ping me by adding {{U|I dream of horses}} to your message. (talk to me) (contributions) @ 03:48, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

There comes a time when you must stop breaking Misplaced Pages's rules, and that includes no personal attacks and AGF. Flyer, stop being so overzealous and patronizing. Thefiremanx6 (talk) 03:58, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

The more you talk (type, whatever), the more evidence I collect. Go report me at WP:ANI for "breaking Misplaced Pages's rules" already. Or are you scared to do so? You don't want a WP:Boomerang this time, I take it? Flyer22 (talk) 04:01, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Eh, I'm not a vindictive guy, so I'll let you do the honors and report me to the ANI for this sockpuppetting I supposedly did, according to you. Or you could start an SPI. Whatever floats your boat. I'm guessing you've already done so however, given your telling me to get ready to be blocked. Note: this would be a major breach of ethics on your part, as you are supposed to post a notice on a user's page if you have started an SPI so that the user can defend him/herself, and there's no notice on my page. Just saying. Thefiremanx6 (talk) 04:18, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Waste of time, but I'll see you at the latest WP:Sockpuppet investigation I've started on you. And, no, I don't have to notify a WP:Sockpuppet of a WP:Sockpuppet investigation I've started on him or her. Flyer22 (talk) 05:42, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Now that the WP:Sock is blocked, The Anome, do you have any opinion on the aforementioned redirect/disambiguation suggestion? I am asking you because you edit sexual articles and recently edited the Facesitting article. I generally don't edit the sexual topics that pertain to sexual acts that are considered the realm of the non-standard, such as bukkake or certain BDSM aspects. It may be that you edit such topics more than I do. When it comes to sexual topics, I mainly edit core sexual topics relating to human sexuality or the sexology topics. Flyer22 (talk) 19:48, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

My previous edit: Condom article.

You reverted my edit to the article on condoms — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey13952 alternate account (talk • contribs)

Joey13952 alternate account (talk · contribs), and you re-added your edit; this time with a source. I'll leave that matter to Doc James to handle. I'm concerned with other things at the moment.

I also gave this section a clearer heading, and tagged your comment as unsigned. Flyer22 (talk) 00:31, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Lamborghini Huracán

Hello Flyer22 , I'm not sure if this was the method that you wanted me to reply to you by, but thank you for your input. My edit on the Lamborghini Huracan page's intent was to add additional content that could be interpreted in any way. The second generation of Lamborghini v10 engines were made with a crankshaft that had no split crank pins. Being a 90° angle Vee, it would fire every 54° and 90° of crankshaft rotation instead of the even 72° interval. This bit of information could be interpreted in 2 ways, as an advantage for a lower centre of gravity since being 90° instead of 72°, and have a different noise signature, a stiffer crankshaft or be a disadvantage in having slightly more vibration and a different noise signature. However one's opinion could be made through interpretation was my intent for the edits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrishuynh1996 (talk • contribs)

UEFA Euro 2020

I deleted the map in the bid process section because the same map is in the venues section. Also somethings wrong with the formatting of it and the map is covering some of the writing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.229.66.54 (talk) 02:19, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Sleeper check

I ran the CU before the account was created.--Bbb23 (talk) 05:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Following comments here. Just stopping by to say I'm watching that user too. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, the more eyes on that account, the better. He has already slipped up with one of his edit summaries. The more he edits under that account, the more evidence I will collect. Flyer22 (talk) 05:45, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Note: Keeping tabs offline. I can be patient. And when I'm patient, I can see what possible mistakes I have made in tying one editor to an exiting account, as opposed to the correct account. I cannot stress enough that these WP:Sockpuppets need to be smarter; little claims about being a newbie or making a rookie mistake will not fool me. Flyer22 (talk) 00:22, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Oopsie...

Thanks for keeping me in line! Jim1138 (talk) 01:18, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Jim, this was no problem at all. Thanks for helping. I wish that people generally understood the WP:Neutral policy, but it often seems that only significantly experienced Misplaced Pages editors do -- the ones who are often involved in contentious topics. And that's the reason that I have a section about that policy on my user page. When the WP:Neutral policy is correctly applied, the ones upholding it are accused of being POV-pushers, and I'm so over that. As noted in the latest discussions at Template talk:POV, so many editors don't even apply that template correctly. Flyer22 (talk) 01:42, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

What, {{POV}} doesn't mean I don't like it? I'll take a look at talk:pov. I wonder how many ... think I'm under the whip of a dominatrix? Jim1138 (talk) 03:55, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

LOL! Flyer22 (talk) 03:58, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Interestingly, removal of a POV tag under these circumstances doesn't really seem to be covered: Template:POV#When to remove. Except perhaps not meant to be a permanent resident. Should it be amended? Jim1138 (talk) 05:01, 20 April 2015‎ (UTC)

It was right to remove this tag because of what Template:POV states about the WP:Neutrality policy; it states, "This template should only be applied to articles that are reasonably believed to lack a neutral point of view. The neutral point of view is determined by the prevalence of a perspective in high-quality, independent, reliable secondary sources, not by its prevalence among Misplaced Pages editors or the public." And that is why I stated that I would remove the tag. If you want to amend the When to remove section of the template, you will likely need to discuss the matter at that talk page. Unlike many other template talk pages, Template:POV has enough WP:Watchers and people ready to debate changes made to that template. Flyer22 (talk) 05:53, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Not to mention...that template is WP:Full-protected because it's so important and so contentious. So only WP:Administrators or those with similar rights when it comes to editing WP:Full-protected templates can edit that template. Flyer22 (talk) 05:56, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Sexual Fluidity and Lisa M. Diamond articles

Flyer 22, thank you for the help on Sexual fluidity: the article is better now.

I will see how to make use of the content on User talk:Flyer22/Archive 15#User:Flyer22/Fluidity of sexuality. RadioElectrico (talk) 16:40, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Since this is already a section, I hope RadioElectrico doesn't mind me commenting in it. Anyway, thanks for correcting my erroneous changes to the "Cultural debate" section of Sexual fluidity. I wasn't sure what was being conveyed in the iteration I encountered, but I was under the impression that what was meant was that sexual identity, not orientation, could change. The wording was very confusing in the original, so I tried to make sense of it. I'm glad you corrected my mistakes so quickly. ―Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 22:38, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Confusing sexual orientation with sexual orientation identity

Ehm, are you really sure, sexual orientation, sexual identity and sexual orientation identity are real - life used otherwise, than as synonyms? RadioElectrico (talk) 17:16, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

RadioElectrico, I'm not sure what you are asking. Yes, the vast majority of sexologists, psychologists and psychiatrists believe that sexual orientation is real. While the concept of sexual orientation has not existed until relatively recently in the history of humankind, the factors that are sexual orientation have. Also, sexual orientation identity is an aspect of sexual identity, and those two things usually mean the same thing, which is why it's covered in the Sexual identity article. There is no need for separate Misplaced Pages articles for those two topics. Sexual orientation, however, is very much differentiated from sexual identity...at least by researchers who know what they are talking about. With sexual identity, a person can claim to be any sexual orientation; for example, due to heteronormativity, it's common for gay men and lesbians to claim to be heterosexual. Does that mean that they are heterosexual? No. It means that their sexual identity is heterosexual. If they ever do identify as gay or lesbian, it is the sexual identity that has changed, not the sexual orientation. That stated, and I mentioned this before (again see User talk:Flyer22/Archive 15#User:Flyer22/Fluidity of sexuality), it's common for sexual orientation and sexual identity to be confused in research. This is addressed in the Sexual orientation article, in this section. That is mainly because of people's sexual identities not aligning with their sexual behaviors and/or actual sexual orientations. On your user talk page, I told you, "While researchers note sexual identity changing, they are pretty consistent in stating that sexual orientation is unlikely to change." That is true. Again, the sources you used were focused on sexual identity changing. For example, with this edit, you can see where KateWishing tweaked your text and added, "Diamond concluded that 'although sexual attractions appear fairly stable, sexual identities and behaviors are more fluid.'"

You need to stop confusing the research and what the researchers stated. And be careful not to engage in WP:Synthesis. It seems that you want to add text about sexual orientation having the ability to change, even though experts who study sexual orientation are fairly certain that sexual orientation itself (independent of sexual identity and sexual behavior) is generally stable and generally cannot be changed, which is why you won't find any credible scientific organization endorsing sexual orientation change efforts.

On a side note: In the future, if I reply on your talk page, it is best that you reply to me there. I prefer to keep discussion combined instead of disjointed. I like the WP:TALKCENT rationale. In this case, however, since we have continued discussion here at my talk page, I would prefer that you continue this discussion here instead of at yours; that is, if you desire to continue this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 21:39, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

O.K., Flyer22, the thing is clearer to me now. However, i went to see Lisa M. Diamond's work from 2008 and from 2012: I don't see she is speaking only of sexual identity being changed, while sexual orientation remains unaltered. In the work from 2012 she explicitly says: "Whereas sexual orientation in men appears to operate as a stable erotic ‘compass’ reliably channeling sexual arousal and motivation toward one gender or the other, sexual orientation in women does not appear to function in this fashion (for a review, see Bailey, 2009)." RadioElectrico (talk) 12:35, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

RadioElectrico (last time WP:Pinging you to this talk page because I assume that you will check back here if you want to read replies), nowhere did I state that Diamond never talks about sexual orientation changing. What I stated is that she was primarily talking about sexual identity changing when it came to the sources you cited. I am very familiar with Diamond's work, and, being very familiar with that work, I know that she is usually talking about sexual identity changing, not sexual orientation changing. Again, refer to the "Diamond concluded" text that KateWishing added. While sexual orientation and sexual identity are commonly distinguished, they are also aspects of each other. Sexual behavior is also an aspect of sexual orientation. Yes, Diamond talks about women's sexual orientation being more fluid than men's; so do a lot of other researchers. That does not mean that they do not think that sexual orientation itself (meaning independent of sexual behavior or sexual identity) is generally stable. The term sexual orientation identity has the term sexual orientation in it, after all. Like Diamond stated, "'although sexual attractions appear fairly stable, sexual identities and behaviors are more fluid.'" It would take a lot of time for me to get you to understand these topics the way that you are supposed to understand them. So all I can ask of you is to follow the researchers' words accurately. And I mean all of the words (not just when they use the term sexual orientation to mean sexual identity in a way that apparently pleases you). I'm not sure why you are so determined to make it seem like sexual orientation itself is likely to change, but I told you above, "You need to stop confusing the research and what the researchers stated." As even seen with this bit I fixed, you confused (either intentionally or accidentally) what a woman stated. Nowhere does that woman state in those sources that she became heterosexual. Flyer22 (talk) 12:58, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Gender-identity/role

My memory is not so good, particularly since you say this was 2 years ago and I can't refresh it with a log since it's not delted, but when you say I restored that, I thought I had just changed it into a disambig for the gender identity and gender role articles since it only redirected to one of them. Ranze (talk) 22:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Invitation

I'd like to invite everyone to join the WikiProject R&B and Soul Music. We are currently on demand for new members, the project was dying, but with your help we can revive it and make it one of the best WikiProjects. Make me sure that you'll think about this and remember cooperative works can do amazing things. Regards Dfrr (talk) 08:34, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Estrogen article

I am new to this whole system. Anyways I wrote a pretty in depth piece yesterday and then I saw it was deleted. What happened?Wayne85VT (talk) 16:59, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Wayne85VT, I reverted you (see Help:Reverting) because your addition needed better formatting and sourcing. When creating headings, you should create real headings (see WP:Headings), not MOS:BOLD headings. And as for sourcing, see WP:MEDRS. WP:MEDRS-compliant sources are the type of sources you should be using for the content you added.

On a side note: I moved your post down and gave it a heading because, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout, newer sections go at the bottom. Flyer22 (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

In Regards to the Bigender Article...

Hey, Flyer22!

As best I can tell, this is the primary mode of communication on Misplaced Pages. I apologize if this is not your preferred method of communication. I'd like to thank you for helping my revision team with our references and providing us with links to improve upon our revisions - it means a lot that you're taking the time to assist new users. I've seen a couple of the messages you've sent my teammates, so I just wanted to reassure you that we are not poorly-researched students who are disregarding accuracy in an attempt to get a good grade. If we were doing that, our professors would clearly see that reflected in our work and we wouldn't get a good grade anyway. Many of us have extensive backgrounds studying human sexuality and a few of us have field experience in LGBTQIA+ activism, so we care very deeply for the accuracy of our project. I understand that one of your concerns has to do with the biomedical nature of our sources, so in the hope of clarification, I just want to say that many queer folks (myself included) are getting exhausted of the only information that is considered respectable being biomedically-based. Gender is separate from sex assigned at birth and many researchers don't even consider possibly conflation of the two when they set up their studies. So one of our goals is to raise awareness for the need to critically evaluate research and biological theories and to put more effort into research on socialization. So any help you'd be willing to give us in terms of how to cite things properly is VERY much appreciated, but I just wanted to reassure you that we are neither spammers, nor are we irresponsible.

Best wishes! -https://en.wikipedia.org/User:TripleShotEspresso — Preceding unsigned comment added by TripleShotEspresso (talk • contribs)

Hello, TripleShotEspresso (talk · contribs). As you know, I directed you to the WP:Med discussion; that is where your comments on this matter should go. Either there or the article's talk page. Your WP:Students have not had proper WP:Student training, and this commentary by Hunterashlyn (talk · contribs) at WP:Med shows it. Besides that WP:Personal attack, Hunterashlyn is not aware of the WP:OWN policy. I have to state that classes such as yours is why I generally dislike WP:Student editing. Not only am I well-versed in sexology and gender topics, I am well-versed in Misplaced Pages editing. And what your class is doing will not cut it. Consider my commentary regarding your class "tough love." Flyer22 (talk) 05:32, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22, I can tell you're very knowledgable in regards to both matters, so again, thank you for your assistance and "tough love." I am not privy to the full extent of your conversations with my teammates, but I apologize if there has been any personal attacks or tension. It's also very fair for you to say that our Misplaced Pages editing won't cut it. We don't have any background in is, as you've already surmised. However, we are simply trying to be active citizens in a community that not only extends to everyone with an internet connection, but also strives to use that collective force to bring the most expansive collection of information to be reviewed by an extensive audience and educate the greatest number of people. So we are simply asking for patience as we attempt to bring our knowledge to be reviewed by veterans like yourself. It's also frustrating on our end to see the resources that we scraped together deleted immediately, when what would be most helpful to us would be the types of critiques you sent to my "talk" page. So, again, thank you for your time, and apologies if tensions have been running high. I think we're all looking for a diplomatic solution. TripleShotEspresso — Preceding undated comment added 05:47, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

TripleShotEspresso, thank you for that. I understand that it can be frustrating being a WP:Newbie. My interaction with your class is documented at the aforementioned WP:Med discussion. Do comment at that WP:Med discussion, and point your class there, so that we can possibly resolve these conflicts regarding the bio-medical content you all are adding to the Bigender article. Flyer22 (talk) 05:54, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Deletion: Human Trafficking

Infor4fun, Hello Flyer22. Thank You for contacting me, I am new to Misplaced Pages and didn't how to yet explain why let alone navigate my way as an editor -- thanks for links! My reason: the image highlighted Egypt as a country where trafficking was not illegal and common practice. However, I researched further about this and found that it is illegal and is a serious crime. Gangs and terrorists are commonly responsible and Government Authorities try to track them. Problems faced include corruption and/or bribery. Ps: researched because of schoolwork. Thank You Infor4fun (talk) 09:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)Infor4fun

I have not received a reply in regards to this topic. I have seen the image put up again. The problem is that it is in fact illegal so that invalidates the image. I'm not sure if its a new law or not, but this issue must be fixed. I only say this to put Misplaced Pages closer to becoming a trustable source. Please do see to it, false information can result in big problems in researches. Thank You for your understanding. Infor4fun (talk) 04:37, 23 April 2015 (UTC)Infor4fun

Gay Sexual Practices

In the See Also section I added Top, bottom and versatile because the in text links are not clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmrc (talk • contribs) 14:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Drmrc, yes, the Top, bottom and versatile link is clear in the Behaviors section of that article. If someone overlooks that link in that relatively small article, it is that person's fault. WP:See also and WP:Overlinking are clear, and you need to start following those rules, per what I've stated on your talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 14:46, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 the links to top, bottom an versatile are clear but are not linked to the whole article of Top, bottom and versatile instead they are linked just to the individual sections. So I added the full link to See Also. (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 14:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Drmrc, and that is still unnecessary WP:Overlinking, especially since the only relevant parts of the Top, bottom and versatile article with regard to the Gay sexual practices article are the Top, Bottom and Versatile sections. All three sections are linked in the Behaviors section of the Gay sexual practices article, which is also a form of WP:Overlinking; but at least that form of WP:Overlinking is taking editors to different parts in the article. Since I don't know how else to make you understand why the Top, bottom and versatile article should not be in the See also section, and since disjointed discussion annoys me (replying here at my talk page and at yours instead of in one spot), I am done discussing this with you. But when I notice you WP:Overlink, like you also did here at the Vegetarianism article, I will revert you. Flyer22 (talk) 15:03, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I have read the WP:Overlinking and what I edited by adding Top, bottom and versatile is not over linking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmrc (talk • contribs) 15:08, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for reverting that user's edits on Sexism back to my version. We can't have people thumbing their noses at consensus, after all. Scaravich105nj (talk) 22:32, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi: RoniA20 WP:Sockpuppet investigation

A few months ago I have decided to try and start to do some editing in Misplaced Pages, due to the fact that i have seen some articles in wiki to be bias in the best case, and incorrect in the worst. I have never edited in wiki before, maybe just once, many years ago when i have opened this user, but forget all about it, and never edit with it. So when i have start editing i have edit from a direct PC IP (or what ever it called). Then (as i see it) someone accused me of violating copyright, when it was not the case - deleted the history (in the IP talk page) of me explaining why it wasn't copyright violation and asking for explanation; why ehat i did was copyright violation - and blocked me. Then because i was blocked and couldn't even answer i have remembered of this wiki user of mine, recovered the password - and responded to what happened in the talk page of the IP; said that it was me and asked again how what i did was copyright violation and why they blocked me right away without even explaining why what i have done was copyright violation. Again they didn't explained but just blocked me right away and started this sock puppeteer investigation - In a very unfair and unjustified way - when at start i have didn't even understand what it's all about, and again didn't have a way to answer... Since i have didn't understand what this puppeteer investigation was, and believed that they blocked me unfairly i have used other PC which they blocked again - and only then i have understand what the puppeteer is, and stopped editing though still belived that all of it was unjust and unfair. So now I have decided that i don't want anything to do with wiki - since apparently, as i see it, wiki is controlled by a bunch brutal and dictatorial mafia... AND I WANT TO DELETE ALL THE HISTORY THAT HAD TO DO WITH ME- which include the pages that you have redo...--RoniA20 (talk) 07:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello, RoniA20. I reverted you here and here because I initially considered it WP:Disruptive editing. Perhaps I still do. You are not the one who should be removing those WP:Sockpuppet tags. I reverted you here because you'd commented in the archives and commenting in the archives is usually not something we should do here at Misplaced Pages. See this recent discussion about commenting in the archives of a WP:Sockpuppet investigation. You can, however, use the archive's talk page to comment. And make sure you WP:Ping the relevant editors, since the archive regarding your WP:Sockpuppet investigation does not have a lot of WP:Watchers. I put it on my WP:Watchlist after reverting you. I also reverted you here because it is inappropriate to request to have the page deleted in a closed case.

On a side note: I altered the heading of your title with ": RoniA20 WP:Sockpuppet investigation" so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about and will be easier to locate once archived. Flyer22 (talk) 07:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)