Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 23:45, 5 June 2015 editNo More Mr Nice Guy (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers8,461 edits →Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy ← Previous edit		Revision as of 01:18, 6 June 2015 edit undoHeimstern (talk \| contribs)Administrators16,882 edits →Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Handpolk: CommentTags: Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit →
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	*Limiting editing of this article to experienced editors is a departure from the usual wiki rule of "anyone can edit," but it is a narrow departure, and an appropriate one given the problems the article and the topic-area have had. I therefore agree that this appeal should be declined. ] (]) 17:24, 4 June 2015 (UTC)		*Limiting editing of this article to experienced editors is a departure from the usual wiki rule of "anyone can edit," but it is a narrow departure, and an appropriate one given the problems the article and the topic-area have had. I therefore agree that this appeal should be declined. ] (]) 17:24, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
	*I would decline this. It needs to 500 ''and'' 30, for two reasons - firstly, because 30 days is not a huge time to wait (indeed, any accounts created on the day this was imposed are only 12 days from marching straight in), and because there were a ''lot'' of old accounts that mysteriously activated after the call to arms by Reddit etc., and there are probably far, far, more out there. Sometimes such draconian measures are necessary, especially after ArbCom dropped the ball on the case they were asked to look at. ] 17:27, 4 June 2015 (UTC)		*I would decline this. It needs to 500 ''and'' 30, for two reasons - firstly, because 30 days is not a huge time to wait (indeed, any accounts created on the day this was imposed are only 12 days from marching straight in), and because there were a ''lot'' of old accounts that mysteriously activated after the call to arms by Reddit etc., and there are probably far, far, more out there. Sometimes such draconian measures are necessary, especially after ArbCom dropped the ball on the case they were asked to look at. ] 17:27, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
			*This sanction is fairly strong, and it's arguably not very fair. But the truth is that Misplaced Pages is not an exercise in justice, but in writing an encyclopedia. Given the level of disruption at this particular topic, I don't see sanctions like this as unreasonable, even if they are exclusive of some people. ] ] 01:18, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

	==No More Mr Nice Guy==		==No More Mr Nice Guy==

Revision as of 01:18, 6 June 2015

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Noughtnotout

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Noughtnotout (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed: <Topic Ban Dawoodi Bohra ]. Imposed for being perceived to have declared a winner ] in the succession controversy>

Administrator imposing the sanction: EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AEdJohnston&type=revision&diff=663931981&oldid=663672272The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by Noughtnotout

Statement by EdJohnston

In January, the Dawoodi Bohra article had been suffering from edit warring due to a leadership succession controversy. Partisans of the two sides had been reverting articles about the Dawoodi Bohra to claim success for their respective candidates. I first became aware of User:Noughnotout due to some edit warring taking place on one of the articles in January 2015. I alerted him to the ARBIPA discretionary sanctions here at 05:41 on January 12. In a talk thread I advised him to get a talk page consensus before changing the article. This advice happened at 06:07 on 12 January. Somewhat to my surprise, later that day he went ahead with a large change to the Dawoodi Bohra article which was not supported by anyone else on the talk page. Since I had been watching for socks, and a brand-new partisan editor who avoids discussion is sometimes a sock, I went ahead with issuance of a topic ban from the Dawoodi Bohra. At the time I indicated I would consider lifting the ban in three months if I thought that progress had occurred. But since that day he has done fewer than 50 edits anywhere else on Misplaced Pages, I don't see a case for lifting the ban at this time. Since January he has left numerous messages on my talk page that I didn't find persuasive. They strengthened my initial impression of him as someone who was wedded to his POV and wasn't likely to defer to the verdict of reliable sources. EdJohnston (talk) 04:13, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Noughtnotout

In four and a half months, Noughtnotout, your contributions to actual Articles space amount to 12 edits on Scalextric. That's it. In fact you've edited less than 50 times since your topic ban. I just don't think it's enough. Now, I see that you were topic banned about four days after you created your account, so you are presumably very new. So go out there, edit even more articles! Surely there's something else you are interested in? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 13:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Noughtnotout

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm not seeing a strong case to overturn the enforcing administrator's decision. Noughtnotout appears to be a single purpose account with a non-neutral POV so is probably best removed from Dawoodi Bohra. Since they haven't made a significant number edits to other articles it's almost impossible to tell whether they've developed the necessary experience and knowledge to edit an idea they aren't neutral in in a way which is beneficial to the project. I would therefore decline the appeal and advise them to actively edit in other areas for at least three months then appeal the ban again showing what they've learnt. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 14:14, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
- Restored from archive other comments welcome/needed. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:42, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Noughtnotout hasn't edited in over a week, since filing this request. I would be interested in his response to the comments so far, so let's hold this open for a few more days. However, if he doesn't respond in a reasonable time, I'll agree with declining for now. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

A Quest For Knowledge

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning A Quest For Knowledge

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Mann jess (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:52, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: A Quest For Knowledge (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change#Standard discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Watts Up With That - a blog which promotes fringe views on climate science - recently canvassing their readers to "correct" our coverage. Since then, we've been having a tough time handling the increased attention and fervor, and consensus building has been turbulent. I requested page protection to facilitate discussion, but we kept hitting the same walls, so JzG created an RfC to address a recurring issue.

Unfortunately, A Quest For Knowledge has been disrupting the RfC and other methods of consensus building, which has made our task considerably harder. He has repeatedly inserted his opinions into the RfC question, suggesting that responding is a waste of time, and all but one of the options contravene policy, making the RfC's summary markedly non-neutral. In two cases, he added his opinions in the middle of JzG's comment, which mixed up attribution of JzG's words and the origin of the RfC. My first effort was to move his comment to the discussion section, but he reverted me, and approaching him on his talk page hasn't helped.

While the RfC's wording may not be perfect, it was obviously a good faith effort to aid discussion and build consensus, and the structured format has helped us tease out a few suggestions already. AQFK's edits are clearly an effort to stop discussion and collaboration, which has not been helpful in an already terse environment.

AQFK has also been edit warring on the article for a considerable time. He is not the only one, but his history is extensive, and his reverts are often not coupled with substantive discussion. The following diffs are all removing the same sourced content from the article: June 1, May 30, May 29, May 26, May 23, May 23, May 22, May 12, May 10, May 10, May 10, May 7, May 7, May 6, May 3, May 3, April 30, April 29, April 27, April 21, April 21, April 20

AQFK has been exhibiting other problematic behavior as well, which I'll add to this request as I'm able. It is worth noting that disruptive behavior is not limited to AQFK, and broader sanctions may eventually be needed, but at the moment AQFK is the only one attempting to hinder collaboration.

AQFK was previously topic banned from climate change by arbcom in 2010. The ban was lifted in 2012. The topic is subject to discretionary sanctions, and I'm asking that they be applied (in whatever form is deemed necessary) to prevent further disruption. — Jess· Δ ♥ 05:54, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

AQFK has also been misrepresenting the conversation, and not working toward a goal of building consensus and collaborating with editors of different viewpoints. For example, when discussing the inclusion of this quote, AQFK has repeatedly summarized the dispute as the addition of the word "denier": , , , , , , , , , , ,

This has led to confusion, since the contested edit does not contain the word "denier". Yet, AQFK continues to assess sources based on their use of the word "denier" and not variants like "climate change denial". Editors have asked AQFK to be more careful in his choice of language (, , , , , ), and method of assessing sources (), but his behavior has not changed ().

Note that the last diff is one AQFK has copied and pasted several places. In it, AQFK misrepresents the sources by saying the word "denier" does not appear in any of them, when in reality some variant of "denier" appears in nearly 30%. () — Jess· Δ ♥ 08:44, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change#A Quest For Knowledge's battlefield conduct and this DS notice on May 3rd

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning A Quest For Knowledge

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by A Quest For Knowledge

The problem with the RfC as currently written is that it presents a false trichotomy. According to WP:WTW, the contentious terms such as "denier" should only be used if it's widely used by reliable sources. So, the key question is, what do the majority of reliable sources say? In order to answer this question, I examined a random sampling of 10 reliable sources (including peer-reviewed journals), the vast majority used the term "skeptic" (as randomly selected by Google):

PBS - "skeptic"
Scientific American - "skeptical"
American Thinker - "skeptic"
New York Times - "skeptics"
Scientific American - "meteorologist" Note that that the full article is behind a paywall, so I did not have access to the full text. Perhaps this should be excluded from the sample set?
PBS - "skeptic"
LiveScience - Uses both "denial" and "skeptics". In specific reference to Watts' blog - "skepticism"
Fox News - "skeptical"
USA Today - "skeptic"
The Telegraph - "science"
BBC News - No specific label in reference to Watts Up with That, but uses "sceptical" in general

These were the first 10 reliable sources randomly selected by Google. Based on these results, sources refer to Watts or his blog as:

Skeptic (or some variation thereof) - 9 sources
Meteorologist - 1 Source
Science - 1 Source
Denier - 0 Sources

I also performed a random sampling (as selected by Google) of sources not behind a paywall in Google Scholar, and here are the results:

IOPScience - Cross-national comparison of the presence of climate scepticism in the print media in six countries, 2007–10 "sceptical".
The Changing Role of Blogs in Science Information Dissemination - No descriptor used.
Global Warming And Climate Change "retired television meteorologist"
Constructing “Climategate” and Tracking Chatte r in an Age of Web n.0 "conservative".
Chapter 3: Covering Controversial Science: Improving Reporting on Science and Public Policy "“science” (in quotes) and "anti-climate science, conservative"
Discourses of Women Scientists in Online Media: Towards New Gender Regimes? "Skeptic"
Exploring Argumentative Contexts "science blog"
Will Replicated Global Warming Science Make Mann Go Ape? No descriptor used.
The Routledge Handbook of Environment and Communication "science skeptic" (in quotes) and "Meteorologist"
Science Denial and the Science Classroom "skeptic".

Google Scholar Totals:

Skeptic - 3 times.
Meteorologist - 2 times
Conservative - 2 times
Anti-climate science - 1 time
Skeptic (in quotes) - 1 time
Science - 1 time
Science (in quotes) - 1 time
Denier - 0 times

Based on two completely different random samplings of reliable sources, it seems pretty apparent that the overwhelming majority of sources don't use the term "denier". In fact, the total number approaches zero, let alone a wide majority.

Unfortunately, the RfC as written presents 3 options, all of which require that we violate Misplaced Pages's rules, on a WP:BLP no less. Other options are completely omitted from the RfC. For example, another editor presented a compromise which both Jess and I liked yet it was completely omitted from the RfC. Why was this omitted from the RfC?

Imagine an election where major opposition candidates are left off the ballot. Would such an election be considered legitimate?

I'm not against an RfC - quite the contrary - RfCs are a wonderful way to judge consensus. An RfC which presents a false trichotomy while ignoring actual legimate options isn't going to solve anything.

I've been on Misplaced Pages for 6 years and have tens of thousands of edits. I have as much right to point out that an RfC is flawed as anyone. The idea that an editor should be sanctioned for pointing out that a flawed RfC is flawed is absurd. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

As for the edit-warring, anyone who knows me knows that I always try to follow WP:BRD. However, BRD does not work if I'm the only one willing to follow it. I brought up a legitimate WP:BLP concern. Under no circumstance should anyone edit-war contentious negative information back into the article. It should have gone to the talk page and only restored after consensus was reached. I may have edit-warred, but at least I edit-warred to remove contentious content, not the other way around.

In any case, if we're throwing stones at glass houses, here's everyone with more than one revert on just the last sentence in the lede:

Akhilleus
ArtifexMayhem
Capitalismojo
DHeyward
Gnncmac
Joel B. Lewis
JzG
Mann jess
Nomoskedasticity
Peter Gulutzan
PeterTheFourth
Stephan Schulz
Tillman
Ubikwit

If you want to sanction someone, how about sanctioning all the editors who edit-warred contentious negative WP:BLP material into the article? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Guerillero

I have no horse in this race, I just formatted Jess's request in the format that AE likes --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 07:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Ubikwit

This is an issue that needs attention. AQFK has been tendentiously ignoring WP:CONSENSUS and making repeated recourse to WP:WTW, for example, ignoring the numerous comments on the Talk page refuting the attempt.
The Watts BLP and WUWT blog article are subject to WP:PSCI, and the semantics issue between "denier", etc., and "skeptic" would seem to be clearly subordinate to the policy-based prioiritization of the mainstream view of scientists versus Watts' pseudoscience views, which do not correspond to scientific skepticism, but do fall under the rubric of environmental skepticism.--Ubikwit_{見学/迷惑} 09:52, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I was not aware that the article was under a 1rr restriction, either. Perhaps someone should post a banner or the like on the page.--Ubikwit_{見学/迷惑} 04:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

It bears noting that the discussion regarding denialism vs skepticism has been going on for a couple of months now at Watts' BLP, predating the appearance of both Man Jess and Sphilbrick. A substantial number of sources and interpretive aspects have been discussed, and I added most of the sources that had been previously discussed at the BLP to the WUWT talk page yesterday, rounding out this list.
- It also bears noting that the issue of including "denialism" on WP:WTW has also been under discussion for a couple of months, with an emerging consensus to delete the term from that guideline. AQFK did participate in that discussion as well, though he subsequent deleted his comment.
  - It further bears noting that Dave souza has been tackling the definitional aspects in a professional manner, with this edit, for example, and more to come from this source.--Ubikwit_{見学/迷惑} 09:51, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

I have to say that AQFK's approach seems to me to be unhelpful. AQFK states as fact that an RfC cannot possibly succeed because of WTW, even though it includes nothing more skeptical than the result of the previous RfC, and numerous good-faith comments by long-time Wikipedians have already accepted that the question is valid.

It is fine to dispute the question put in an RfC. It is not fine to insist on stating as fact that the question is invalid, when that is just an opinion, and is rejected by most others commenting.

AQFK also repeatedly removes a statement which is sourced and attributed to a well-known authority, citing BLP, despite, again, numerous long-time Wikipedians arguing in good faith that this is not a violation since it si high profile, sourced and attributed.

Overall the impression is that PAG are being used not as a guide to good practice, but as a magic talisman to wave away opinions for which the editor very obviously harbours a visceral hatred. And AQFK comes across as a Warrior for Truth™, where Truth equates to a philosophical view divorced from scientifically established reality. Guy (Help!) 22:07, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick I am not sure what you're implying re. Mann jess, I would have thought that the involvement of experienced editors new to the article would be highly desirable, given the history of entrenched views and fights between the usual suspects on these articles. Guy (Help!) 09:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

@AQFK: You are stating your opinion as fact again. It is not a fact that the three options "violate" WP:BLP. That is in fact a grossly uncivil comment given that a significant number of people support one or other of them; you are in essence saying that several good faith editors and admins are systematically violating a core policy, by advocating an attributed comment from a world-famous expert in the field - who you happen to dislike. Guy (Help!) 20:59, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

As indicated in the request, this is an editor with a history of egregious disruption in this topic. The topic ban was lifted on the basis that the topic was under a sanctions process and the editor had kept their nose clean for a good while. And so we're back here.

On the face of it, the editor has returned to their disruptive ways and is now interfering with serious consensus-building attempts. It seems reasonable to me to consider once again an indefinite topic ban. --TS 11:04, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Are we going to allow a former topic banned policy violator to argue that their latest serious violation is justified by some content argument, related in some vague way to the BLP policy? That's the same question arbcom faced in 2010 when A Quest For Knowledge used the same argument in defence of their disruptive conduct at that time. Why would we assume that they've learned from their mistakes if they pull the same silly stunt _five years later_? --TS 22:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment by Robert McClenon

I was not involved in this particular controversy, but have a comment. I was involved in a Request for Comments where one of the parties to the conflict protested the RFC vociferously. That sort of behavior is very disruptive, especially because an RFC is often the last option of resolving a content dispute before going to conduct dispute resolution. Also, inserting one's own comments in the middle of another editor's comments, even if meant in good faith, is problematic because it is very likely to cause other editors to mistake who is saying what. Aside from the more general matter of whether the subject editor is POV-pushing or personalizing the dispute (and I haven't researched that), disrupting an RFC is a conduct issue that complicates the resolution of content issues. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:01, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Sphilbrick

As Mann jess correctly points out, there is a post at WUWT reacting to recent edits to the article.
Guy was understandably concerned about potential external influence, (see my talk page). I shared this concern, reviewed the article edit logs and recent edit history. I am sure there is some involvement, my casual review suggested it was not significant. Please note that Guy and I hold very different opinions on the substance of the dispute, but Guy concurs. Most of the recent edits, and most of the contributors to the talk page are "regulars", the exception being Mann jess, who had zero involvement prior to 17 May, but who is now the fifth leading contributor to the article.
The very first edits by Mann jess to the WUWT article were a consecutive sequence of 14 edits, adding relevant material, but also changing the lede to characterize WUWT as a "blog dedicated to climate change denial"
Mann jess has over 10,000 edits. Most editors with that much experience would know that such a contentious statement should be discussed on the talk page first.
The edit was reverted, by AQFK, with edit summary (Per WP:WTW.) a reference to a guideline which specifically singles out "denialist" as a word to watch
The article is subject to a 1RR editing restriction, but Mann Jess re-introduced the wording with less than 24 hours elapsing between the first entry, the removal, and the re-introduction. In fairness, not every editor is aware of which articles are subject to 1RR, so I think this should mot result in sanction.
To her credit, Mann jess immediately went to the talk page to open up discussion. However, per WP:BRD, one should then reach a consensus before re-introducing contentious wording.
Mann jess requested semi-protection, I requested full protection. It has achieved the goal of stopping the edit war, and starting talk page discussion, which while heated, is proceeding.
I understand Mann jess's objection to the edit by AQFK that inserted a comment near the top of an RfC, rather than at the bottom. However, the RfC failed to mention that "denialism" is covered by WP:WTW, and thus, while not prohibited, requires a much higher hurdle than simply a consensus of editors to use the word. It is understandable that AQFK was trying to be helpful, so that outside editors would not spend time reviewing sources, and thinking about the best wording, only find some time later that a specifically relevant guideline existed.
I do think AQFK could have handled the attempt to inform readers differently, but we do not levy sanctions for failure to be perfect (for which I am thankful). --S Philbrick (Talk) 15:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JBL

There is a long-term content/wording-based edit war going on about how to describe Anthony Watts (blogger) and his blog, and particularly about the use of various forms of the word "deny." AQFK is very involved in this dispute (as are Mann jess and I). Probably this will only be resolved when sanctions are placed on a large enough fraction of denialist editors that normal editing can continue. In this context, most of AQFK's behavior has been consistent with the battleground approach being taken by editors on both sides, but the disruptive edits to the RFC are I think notable for their inappropriateness. --JBL (talk) 16:22, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Edit to add: it is worth mentioning that Mann jess has been making substantial improvements to at least the Watts article (unrelated to ongoing edit warring) while all this has been going on.

Response to Arzel: This sort of bad-faith argumentation, in which you pretend to care about the sanctity of process when in fact you care about the actual outcome, is tiresome. See my related comments here.

Statement by MONGO

I cannot say whether or not AQFK has or has not acted inappropriately as far as edit warring and disruption, or whether others have in this matter. My take on the blog is that it posts guest speakers that are at least skeptical if not openly in denial of AGW. The lack of sturdy science in the blog which agrees with the scientific consensus that AGW is fact is alarming...so I would not consider the blog to be a reliable source. In one post on the blog, apparently written by Watts, he states in essence that he agrees with the scientific concensus that the planet is warming and that some of this warming is caused by us. He did not elaborate on how much is caused by what source. Watts then proclaims he considers himself a skeptic and scoffs at being labelled a denier. He also seems to be calling on his readers to correct this information. I do not know if AQFK saw this and is trying to help, but I doubt it. I won't link to the blog post as it makes a personal attack against one of our editors. Anyway, my take is that Watts opinion of himself, though it is a primary source, is important since this is a BLP issue. The parties need to work towards a consensus about incorporating Watts's proclamation and also listing what reputable scientists say. I suggested the source by an antagonist of Watts (Mann) be kept out since other scientific viewpoints of similarity could be used instead.--MONGO 21:42, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Peter Gulutzan

Mann jess's accusation should be dismissed.

Re JzG's RFC: I also complained it was not neutral and warned that JzG says people who don't call WUWT a denial blog are "idiots", Mann jess says about A Quest For Knowledge "he reverted me" but actually three different editors reverted.

Re the diffs: Mann jess says this is about the Watts Up With That article but actually the diffs are from the Anthony Watts (blogger) article, a BLP, which did not have a recent influx of new editors or perturbation caused by Watts's blog post. On Anthony Watts (blogger), by my count five different editors have reverted the addition of the quote in the lead saying Watts's blog is a denial blog, with oft-expressed concerns on the talk page about WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. There are more editors re-inserting (I counted eight), but that is not a consensus and A Quest For Knowledge deserves a defender-of-wiki barnstar. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 15:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Update: I believe one would get a better view of academic and mainstream-media reliable sources (plus Watts himself) saying skeptic by looking at an older version of the Anthony Watts (blogger) page here, and looking at the five citations after the sentence "Watts has expressed a skeptical view of anthropogenic CO2-driven global warming" then the ten citations after the sentence "The blog is focused on the global warming controversy, in particular, Watts skepticism about the role of humans in global warming." I point to an older version because Mann jess destroyed those sentences. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:28, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

I followed the Anthony Watts page for a bit, but honestly got tired of it and unwatched it. I'm disappointed to see that the exact same thing I saw weeks ago is still occurring. Without commenting on the content itself, AQFK's actions seem quite inappropriate and battleground. Especially so for the RFC comments. I opened the diffs, closed them, and reopened them thinking I had accidently opened the same one over and over... the fact that I hadn't and that the same comment was essentially spammed is what prompted me to comment now.

Given the past sanctions but otherwise good behavior (unless someone knows of similar disruption related to AGW outside of this recent event), perhaps a short reinstatement of the topic ban (e.g., 4 months) would be appropriate. It would provide cooling off time as well as time to demonstrate intent to cease disruption. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:28, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cas Liber

If a person is perverting the use of or misrepresenting sources according to our sourcing guidelines, that is a much more difficult and time-consuming problem to deal with than incivility and filibustering and undermines wikipedia's credibility as an encyclopedia...and should be dealt with accordingly. has someone done that here yet? I've only just scanned this page but reams of talkpage notes I haven;t had time to read. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:36, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (Arzel)

AQFK actions have been no worse than those that would complain against him. In particular the statement by JBL is extremely troubling. "Probably this will only be resolved when sanctions are placed on a large enough fraction of denialist editors that normal editing can continue." - JBL How is that not a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality? And it is right here in the this complaint! Not to mention calling all of us that disagree with him "denialists" Simply put, there will never be compromise with attitudes like that, and I doubt that opinion is limited to JBL. Arzel (talk) 13:43, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Short Brigade Harvester Boris

The admins here are experienced enough to see past some of the "But so did he!" stuff above. (I agree with the substance of Arzel's complaint though not with the way he has put it.) Any misbehavior by others can be dealt with separately.

This leaves us with AQFK's disruptive conduct as outlined in User:Mann_jess's diffs. AQFK has a right to object to what they regard as an ill-formulated RFC but does not have the right to do so disruptively. Having previously been sanctioned at WP:ARBCC means that AQFK is fully aware that this is a contentious topic area and that they should be even more careful than usual.

I do not think AQFK is a "bad" editor but for whatever reason climate change is a hot-button issue for them. There's no indication of troublesome behavior outside of climate change -- which reinforces both the argument that AQFK is basically a valuable editor and the conclusion that climate change is a topic they should stay away from, whether by choice or otherwise. It appears that the original topic ban needs to be reinstated but I see no need at all for other sanctions. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:52, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Manul

AQFK continues to misunderstand and/or misrepresent scholarly articles on climate change. One needn't look further than the first scholarly article AQFK cites in order to see the competence issue. This is not a question of content but of competence, of whether AFQK is able to understand the plain meaning of a source. That article says the exact opposite of what AQFK thinks it says: it actually equates "climate skepticism" and "climate denial" in the context of WUWT, as exhaustively explained here. Yet AQFK did not understand their mistake then and despite repeated corrections over the course of months AFQK continues making the same mistake, up to this very AE request. This kind of tendentious behavior is time-wasting for all those involved.

This is not a battleground between opposing factions, nor is it a content dispute between equal sides. Rather, there are simply problematic individuals who misapprehend the scientific literature and the scientific consensus. While Misplaced Pages should describe fringe views accurately and fairly, Misplaced Pages ultimately aims to reflect consensus science. To portray the scientific consensus on climate change as anything other than settled is to violate Misplaced Pages policies, in particular WP:PSCI. AQFK has consistently and tendentiously violated this policy by attempting to portray a climate denialism blog as practicing legitimate scientific skepticism, a view that goes against every scholarly source that substantively addresses the blog in question. AFQK makes tendentious arguments by searching for "skepticism" without apprehending the content or context of sources (in particular, not understanding or being concerned with the demarcation sources make between scientific skepticism and the word "skepticism" in the context of the specific blog in question).

Discretionary sanctions exist, at least in part, because certain topic areas attract entrenched individuals whose editing is not in line with Misplaced Pages's policies and goals. It is not clear why AQFK's topic ban on climate change was lifted, but it should be clear now that the topic ban needs to be reinstated, and for an indefinite duration. Manul ~ talk 03:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning A Quest For Knowledge

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

My initial reading suggests that this is actionable. Edit warring on both the article and on the RFC, as well as little attempt to engage with those supporting the RFC suggests a battleground approach. I have some concerns that there may be others in this topic area with unclean hands (even some of those accusing AQFK seem to allude to edit warring by others), and in part for that reason, I would prefer to wait a bit and see if AQFK will post a statement here. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 04:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Posting a note at the top of an RFC declaring it "a waste of time" and edit warring to keep it there certainly appears to be disruptive behavior and evidence of a battleground mentality. I'm curious to see what the justification is for this behavior. Gamaliel (talk) 05:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Awaiting A Quest for Knowledge's statement. He should post that statement here before making any further edits to the RfC. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:27, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Handpolk

Appealing user: Handpolk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Zad68 12:59, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: Minimum editor qualifications for editing the Gamergate controversy article and its Talk page of 500 edits and 30 days old. Originating AE request is here. Page-level sanction filed in the DS log here. Original Gamergate Arbitration decision is here.

Administrator imposing the sanction: Zad68 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: I am aware of this request. Zad68 13:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Handpolk

Talk:Gamergate controversy has a sanction of 30 days and 500 edits which is intended to prevent people from using socks and such. I am me. I have been on Wikpedia a year. I happened upon this article and think it is extremely non-neutral and am interested in helping to improve it -- and I find it frankly offensive that I'm being told I'm not trusted to be a real person just because I only make edits when I think I legitimately have something to add (like now).

I'll leave it to your discretion if or how to modify, or remove, this restriction. Thank you for your consideration. Handpolk (talk) 11:36, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

I understand the reasoning. It's just very frustrating because none of this applies to me. This rule was not intended for me. But I'm paying the price anyway. Handpolk (talk) 17:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- I have nothing to add. I'd just like to be one edit closer to contributing to this encyclopedia. Handpolk (talk) 02:09, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Zad68

Note, I am the administrator that handled the original AE request and applied the page-level sanctions, so I am uninvolved regarding that article content but I am involved in the application of this page-level restriction. Handpolk's original request didn't use the AE Appeal template, because as they state, they "couldn't figure out how to do that"; I have reformatted Handpolk's original request, with their permission here. Zad68 13:07, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

My statement: According to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Appeals_and_modifications, AE sanctions may be appealed directly to the enforcing administrator, at AE or AN, or an email to ARCA. The page-level restrictions have already been challenged just 10 days ago by an uninvolved administrator at WP:AN, discussion here, section Removal/Modification of restrictions on editing on Talk:Gamergate controversy. I purposefully stayed out of arguing my position in that discussion to see what the community consensus was. My evaluation of that discussion was that there was no "clear and substantial consensus of ... uninvolved editors at AN" (per the wording at Appeals, my emphasis) to overturn the AE action. (In fact I'd say there was a pretty good consensus supporting it.) Zad68 13:15, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Masem's comemnts, the notice says, "the article and this Talk page may not be edited by accounts with fewer than 500 edits, or by accounts that are less than 30 days old." My original AE action placing the page-level restriction (which, again, has withstood public scrutiny) does not have a provision in it for appeals by individual editors. Allowing individual editor appeals would be significantly modifying my AE action. Zad68 16:49, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

In the particulars of this editor, this statement indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of WP:NPOV / "mass media conspiracy" mindset that will not provide a meaningful contribution to the GGC article.

And this particular user is another example of how the GGC is flooded with inexperienced/SPA editors who have little chance of making productive contributions and how the general application of the 500/30 will continue to support an environment that is more likely to address actual issues and result in improvement of the article rather than endless regurgitations of basic policy. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:10, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Masem's claim of some consensus of "bias in the sources" is countered by the later ArbCom decision Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Accuracy_of_sources and Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Neutral_point_of_view. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Masem: you have yet to provide any evidence that my full throated support of the article representing what the actual reliable sources state is in any way in conflict with Misplaced Pages:Advocacy, "Advocacy is the use of Misplaced Pages to promote personal beliefs or agendas at the expense of Misplaced Pages's goals and core content policies, including verifiability and neutral point of view. ". In fact you have provided quite the opposite. Please strike your personal attack. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:38, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Handpolk, the restriction was placed to limit the disruption of the talk page - disruption such as those caused by people who do not know or want to follow our NPOV policy or who want to push conspiracy theories about colluding journalists across all of mainstream media and those are exactly the types of disruption that you appear poised to bring back to the talk page -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:14, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Masem

In comment to The Red Pen of Doom's statement: If we are going to judge the participation of an editor by a view they have shown they hold by talk page, then editors like the Red Pen of Doom should not be participating given they have showed a clear ~~conflict of interest~~bias (per Strongjam below) in that they are actively condemning the actions of GG (, , ) and hostile towards anyone trying to write in a impartial tone about them (, , , (edit summary) ) and would never be able to help generate a neutral article. So either we judge for all based on their opinions, or we don't judge editors based on what opinions they hold as long as they are not being disruptive. I would expect the latter. I will also note that the result of the prior RFC did acknowledge that media bias existed for the article and thus we have reason to consider how to compensate for that. --MASEM (t) 16:26, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

In regards to the 30/500, I though that it was 30 days or 500 edits, not both (and this is what the header on the talk page says) Indiviudally, each serves to temper SPAs coming on, and while that might mean zombie accounts established way back may appear, we can at least judge the level of contributions prior to determine if they are just a not-very-active editor, or some a reactivated account. In this situation, Handpolk seems to have done a reasonable amount of varied edits within the year, so it would definitely by against good faith to assume they are an SPA for this purpose. --MASEM (t) 16:31, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Zad68 I wasn't necessarily talking individual appeals, just that if it was "30 or 500", there would still be a reasonable need to check that an editor with more than 30 days but less than 500 edits didn't just create the zombie account, say, 31 days prior with no other editors just to interfere on the GG page. As to the point of how it is presently worded, when I look back at the original idea your language there implied a "30 or 500" situation, which I would readily agree is a fair boundary. But "30 and 500" seems excessively harsh in the case of Handpolk here, who has nothing on their contribution history to suggest they were waiting to disrupt the article. --MASEM (t) 16:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@MarkBernstein: If the project is going to have to stamp out any use of talk pages to intimidate or punish Gamergate's victims then it also must stamp out any use of talk pages to judge, criticize, or condemn GG supporters, which has also been happening. WP is impartial and non-judgemental, and the problem is that too many editors in both directions are trying to use WP to engage in the GG controversy when we should just be trying to document it. That NPOV discussion has plenty of examples of editors harshly condemning GG in a manner we should not be doing. --MASEM (t) 17:01, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@MarkBernstein: Until anyone associated with GG is legally judged to have committed a crime, WP cannot presume them having done anything wrong within the context of writing the article on GG. We individually can hold those opinions, but if editors are going to walk in with their prejudgement of guilt in full force with a lack of legal conviction, that's a non-starter for consensus development, just as it is to come into the article wanting to bring in further BLP violations or harshly criticize a living individual. --MASEM (t) 17:52, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@MarkBernstein:I knew users of KIA were planning and/or organizing how to edit WP, but didn't pay attention to any names or the like; I'm focusing on their message when I scan through their boards. There's so many names involved with bans on WP on GG that I haven't followed most of them since I agree the SPA editing had to end. So if it was a case an admin of KIA edited WP, sure I could see that but I just don't know who it was or that it happened. --MASEM (t) 17:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Bosstopher: First, I never had an idea that an admin for KIA was editing, but that clearly would be COI too. But saying someone has a COI does not mean that person has to be blocked automatically - but their actions come under scrutiny, and if their editor behavior shows disruption to the standard editing process because of that COI, then blocking action is to be taken, which is one way these measures to prevent SPA and IPs from editing are being enacted. Everyone can have opinions, but those have to stop at the door as editors to prevent disruption to an article. What tRPoD suggested is because Handpolk had a certain opinion about reliable sources, they should be prevented from editing for that reason, which is not how COI works. --MASEM (t) 17:15, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@TheRedPenOfDoom: Arbcom doesn't set content policies, only reinforces their applicability, and that community RFC was made under the auspices of NPOV/RS/UNDUE policy and thus still applies. --MASEM (t) 17:18, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Strongjam: It's what falls under WP:COIBIAS and WP:ADVOCACY; I have no idea if Red Pen has any connection to any specific people or agents involved to make it a COI under the prior two sections under COI, with external relationships or apparent/potential/actual COI, but within the concept of COI from advocacy (strongly against GG), that's certainly there. --MASEM (t) 17:29, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Strongjam: I see what you mean now, but I have seen before (don't ask me where, it's been a while ago) people blocked or actions taken for having a bias but no key relationship but called out as a COI issue. Arguably, other behavior guideline like WP:POINT, WP:EQ ("Recognize your own biases and keep them in check"), and WP:AGF would apply to anyone that is editing with a clear, strong opinion on the matter - holding the opinion is not anything actionable, but when that opinion gets in the way of proper discussion and editing, action can be taken. --MASEM (t) 17:42, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Strongjam

@Masem: It's worded a bit awkwardly. I thought that it was 30 days or 500 edits, not both. It's worded "the article and this Talk page may not be edited by accounts with fewer than 500 edits, or by accounts that are less than 30 days old". So it's NOT(OR(<500 edits, <30 days)). Which matches up with the Zad68's comment only accounts with at least 500 edits and are at least 30 days old may edit this article and its Talk page", i.e. AND(>=500 edits, >=30 days). They're logically the same, but the wording is a bit confusing. — Strongjam (talk) 16:44, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Masem: I see no fathomable COI for TRPoD here. Having an strong opinion on something does qualify as a COI. Perhaps you mean something else? — Strongjam (talk) 17:20, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Masem: I linked to WP:COIBIAS, it specifically says that having bias does not mean COI, a conflict of interest requires external relationships, not just bias. — Strongjam (talk) 17:32, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Liz and Masem: In Masem's defence, if I recall correctly, that user was not a KiA mod until shortly before the arbcom process started. The overlap of their editing of GG and become a mod was not long. — Strongjam (talk) 19:19, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MarkBernstein

The GamerGate Controversy page is regularly and systematically brigaded by offsite recruits who arrive at remarkably consistent intervals to reargue questions which have been argued numerous times before. Some of these might perhaps be good faith new arrivals, but many have turned out to be zombie accounts revived for the purpose, blatant socks, or other editors who prove to be WP:NOTHERE. The result has been that no question is ever resolved, even temporarily, while Gamergate advocates use Misplaced Pages talk pages to spread their rumors and to attack living persons. Discussion of the sex life of one Gamergate target, for example, has been the subject of "fresh" discussion every three weeks. And, as Zad68 notes, this very complaint is yet another example: settled on 26 May at AN/I and here we are on June 4, starting over again.

In recent months, we've seen other disturbing examples from Qworty to OccultZone in which outside organizations have sought to exploit Misplaced Pages through systematic use of socks, meat puppets, zombies, and related deceptions. The widespread publicity that Gamergate's attack on Misplaced Pages has received -- and, let's face it, the effectiveness of that attack -- can only encourage this.

In my view, the 500/30 limit is insufficient but it's a step in the right direction. One the one hand, a few editors might be inconvenienced; there are a million other pages for them to work on. On the other hand, we might see a partial respite from the regular procession of tendentious tag teams marching to their inevitable (but time-consuming) topic bans, after which the editors will vanish entirely from the project (or reappear in new accounts that are remarkably well-versed in WikiLaw!).

But the 500/30 limit not enough; if this is ever to end, the project is going to have to stamp out any use of talk pages to intimidate or punish Gamergate's victims -- including interminable (but civil!) talk about their sex lives and their supposed frauds, buried in huge procedural walls of text to distract administrators but easily printed out, marked with a highlighter, and sent to spouses, aged parents, employers, or schoolmates. MarkBernstein (talk) 16:50, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Note also that Masem cites a December RFC as authority to “deskew” the article for supposed media bias, ignoring his recent trip to WT:NPOV (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#Do_we_consider_NPOV_issues_only_within_the_bounds_of_what_RSes_say_or_the_larger_picture.3F) over the same question, and which was closed (after a month and 20,000 words) only yesterday:

Responding to the request for closure. To the extent that changes or clarifications to the policy are being proposed, consensus is against them. To the extent that questions are being asked, those questions have been answered. To the extent that this is a content dispute, it should be taking place elsewhere. Enough editor time and attention has been spent here, to the point that continuing this reaches the level of disruption. There are thousands of articles waiting for improvement where this energy could be better spent. Sunrise (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2015 (UTC)'

@Masem: My reading of WP:BLP suggests that an anonymous conspiracy without a leader or spokesperson is not a living person. Denouncing the crimes of an anonymous conspiracy is not equivalent to using Misplaced Pages talk pages to discuss the sex lives of female software developers or to speculate on the frauds their enemies affect to imagine them to have committed.

You write that "First, I never had an idea that an admin for KIA was editing," This statement strains belief. You have bragged over and over again about your familiarity with Gamergate fora and boards; the editor in question was extremely prominent -- indeed inescapable -- on most of them and is still listed as a moderator at KiA. The issue was discussed many times in fora in which you participated; I raised it myself at Arbcom and at GGC. On site, of course, we could not actually violate WP:OUTING -- and in a spectacular reddit thread, that editor pointed out that this was exactly why he used essentially the same name on 8chan, reddit, Twitter, and Misplaced Pages. This is all very well and widely known. MarkBernstein (talk) 17:44, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Strongjam:@Liz: I believe that editor's involvement in KotakuInAction goes back a very long way -- perhaps to its foundation. It appears that Ryulong was topic-banned from mentioning the connection in August 2014 -- the month KotakuInAction was established -- because it was a technical violation of WP:OUTING to do so: after all, "L____ M____" here might be completely unrelated to "L___ M_____ 910 there"! We aren't talking about an editor with casual involvement; we're talking about an expert editor who has written tens -- perhaps hundreds of thousands of words on Gamergate talk pages and who repeatedly claims to possess expert insider knowledge and perspective about Gamergate attitudes and motivations which he insists we use as a counterweight to the universal media conspiracy. MarkBernstein (talk) 20:13, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Liz

It's not that only "real people" can edit this one article and its talk page. It's just that many inexperienced editors have erred in their contributions to this discussion and found themselves topic banned or even blocked (see the 2014 list and the 2015 list). Also, new editors seem to miss the FAQs on the talk page and raise the same questions over and over again that have been hashed out. GamerGate is a minefield that has taken down even very experienced editors and I agree that it's better for editors with a little bit of experience to start editing both the article and talk page to make sure that they are familiar with policies such as WP:RS and WP:BLP. These editing requirements didn't just come out of thin air but have been adopted after months of disruptive editing and an arbitration case.

With an account that is at least a month old and has 500 edits (of any kind, not just mainspace), I do not believe that the bar is set too high. If you have a specific question, I recommend you search the 38 pages of talk page archives (using the search box) and read up on how disputes have been resolved in the 10 months this article has been around. It'll catch you up on the discussion so you'll be able to join in once you get a little more experience on Misplaced Pages. Liz 16:52, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Masem So if it was a case an admin of KIA edited WP, sure I could see that but I just don't know who it was or that it happened. I find this incredible. You've been involved in editing Gamergate controversy for a long time and this editor was brought up in cases involving GG general sanctions several times, once where you offered a statement on his behalf. I've only visited KIA a few times but I recognized the name of the admin was the same immediately. If you have spent any amount of time on this reddit board you must have recognized this user. (Sorry this is off-tangent.) Liz 19:14, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Strongjam Well, I apologize to Masem if that is true. I knew the individual from seeing him involved here in GG general sanctions cases and when I visited KIA, I was surprised to see him as an admin there. There was a period of time of overlap, I'm pretty sure. But it's not the point of this AE request so I'll move on. Liz 19:36, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starke Hathaway

@Masem: & @Strongjam:, Zad68 has not been consistent on that point. I agree with Strongjam's parsing above, but Zad68's post to the discretionary sanctions log reads The Gamergate controversy article and its Talk page are not editable by accounts with fewer than 500 edits and age less than 30 days, which parses to NOT(AND(<30days, <500edits), consistent with Masem's understanding. This point should be clarified. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 16:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by involved editor: ForbiddenRocky

Links to decision and prior discussions.

ForbiddenRocky (talk) 16:58, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Handpolk: Re: "This rule was not intended for me" Given the errors (e.g. not knowing how to set it up & commenting in the admin only section) you made within this AE request speaks to the desired seasoning the 500/30 sanction tries to address. GGC is as, Liz says, a minefield. Errors here are actually more easily forgiven than at GGC. Errors on the GGC area turn into weeks of discussion and often resulting in blocks and bans. ForbiddenRocky (talk) 17:51, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Masem and MarkBernstein: Please don't use this AE for a proxy fight. Go keep it at Jimbo's page or something. ForbiddenRocky (talk) 17:55, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Bosstopher

@Masem: While I think there's some issues with tRPOD's editing (namely unnecessary soapboxing), I find it shocking that you're accusing an editor COI because he has an opinion, and using that as reason for a topic ban. Especially considering how silent you were about COI when one of the admin's of KotakuinAction was editing the article. I'll note that in the past you've expressed negative opinions about Gamergate on the talk page too. Does this mean you should be topic banned for COI too? We'd end up having to ban everyone for COI from every topic, if we took this approach.Bosstopher (talk) 17:07, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Handpolk: Wikiproject Wikify's June Wikification drive has started if you want to join in on the fun that is wikifying articles. The competitive aspect and the way it works will help you get a better grasp of editing (especially lede weighting), while racking up those edits you need to pass the restriction.Bosstopher (talk) 18:12, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by 107.77.87.27

Can I get clarification on why black kite and NewYorkbrad are considered uninvolved admins? They appear to have been involved in the initial gamergate arbitration case. 107.77.87.27 (talk) 17:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by DHeyward

@Zad68:, Masem , Sorry, I didn't edit correctly for notification, fixing. --DHeyward (talk) 19:15, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Zad68:, Masem - one glaring inconsistency is that the 30/500 requirement was enacted 5 months after the decision. It seems inconsistent to not allow an established editor to bring his edit count up on GamerGate as other editors have done. There are editors that barely meet 500 because of their last 5 months of edits to the Gamergate talk page. To be more consistent with the spirit of not allowing SPA, socks or other POV forces that this requirement is trying to address, the requirement should be updated to be 500 edits outside the topic area. That would level the requirements a bit so longer term editors aren't viewed as less valuable simply because they haven't been a SPA for the last 6 months. It's not a club, so the threshold for participating in the topic area should be judged equally by contributions outside the topic area as it is now the case for anyone with less than than 30/500. Editors shouldn't be "grandfathered" in (which is effectively what Handpolk is requesting and what some other privileged editors enjoy).

30/500 now means 500 edits outside of GamerGate and it should mean that for everyone. . --DHeyward (talk) 18:36, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by 97.125.155.134

@Gamaliel: I'm unsure what the "bigger danger" is in the context of the talk page. The only "danger" I can see this remedying are removing conversations that have been discussed to death before. But I feel that is insufficient justification for the quota being placed on the talk page. 97.125.155.134 (talk) 18:42, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

As I said elsewhere, this restriction is the worst possible solution except for all those others which have been tried from time. I cannot recall another area where we have had such sustained and well-orchestrated POV-pushing. The specific issue of long-dormant accounts coming out of hibernation to promote the gamergate agenda has been extensively documented. This restriction is proportionate and is the minimum intervention required to protect the project. It is unfortunately inevitable that someone with genuine good intentions is likely to end up unable to contribute, but that is balanced by the likelihood that rather large numbers of people with manifestly bad intentions would have been excluded if wee'd done it sooner. Guy (Help!) 20:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Bilby

This restriction was a major departure from core principles of Misplaced Pages. In general, we've accepted the protection of articles, but restrictions on talk pages have always been considered a bigger issue. This is a significant restriction on the talk page, placed indefinitely, which prevents anyone but well established editors involving themselves in developing the article. While I agree that unusual circumstances require unusual solutions, in this case I don't see sufficient evidence that the previous restriction of only permitting autoconfirmed editors was failing. There is a lot of people pointing to off-wiki plans to challenge the article on mass, and I'm as aware as anyone of these off-wiki discussions, but in practice the semi-protection on the talk page seemed to be working, with the few exceptions being handled with only minor disruption.

Since this protection has been enabled, it has been used on three editors on the talk page. One of those () repeated the concern that the article is not NPOV, and this has been raised many times. The other two (, ) raised valid concerns, one of which led to a discussion about the issue that everyone but the editor who raised it could take part in. None of this has been significantly disruptive. However, almost all of the disruption that has occurred on the article since this was set has been from people arguing about the protection.

I don't know when we're going to make the call that this isn't making any significant difference in preventing disruption, but we will have to make that call at some point. Perhaps we should nominate a period of time when we'll revisit this and evaluate the restriction - we typically do that when using semi-protection on talk pages, and as this is a stronger level of protection it may make sense to do that here. In the meantime, perhaps those with concerns about the article should be given some process for raising them - perhaps on a subpage. Locking them out for an indefinite period of time on a controversial article, effectively preventing them from raising any concerns, is fundamentally against what we are trying to build. - Bilby (talk) 21:52, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Result of the appeal by Handpolk

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

@Handpolk: I'm sorry you find it offensive, but in the past on Misplaced Pages we've found it necessary to restrict editing of certain articles, and this case is no different. Sometimes such restrictions inhibit editing by well-meaning individuals, and that is a danger, but not having the restrictions is a bigger danger. You are free to edit millions of other encyclopedia articles, however. I see nothing presented in this appeal to justify overturning the restrictions. Gamaliel (talk) 16:51, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Handpolk: I understand you are frustrated, and I'm sorry. But please consider the frustrations of others who have had to deal with constant disruptions to this article for nearly a year. We will be glad to assist you in editing other articles of your choice. Once you do, it should be a simple matter for you to overcome these minor restrictions in a short period of time. 18:08, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Limiting editing of this article to experienced editors is a departure from the usual wiki rule of "anyone can edit," but it is a narrow departure, and an appropriate one given the problems the article and the topic-area have had. I therefore agree that this appeal should be declined. Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:24, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I would decline this. It needs to 500 and 30, for two reasons - firstly, because 30 days is not a huge time to wait (indeed, any accounts created on the day this was imposed are only 12 days from marching straight in), and because there were a lot of old accounts that mysteriously activated after the call to arms by Reddit etc., and there are probably far, far, more out there. Sometimes such draconian measures are necessary, especially after ArbCom dropped the ball on the case they were asked to look at. Black Kite (talk) 17:27, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
This sanction is fairly strong, and it's arguably not very fair. But the truth is that Misplaced Pages is not an exercise in justice, but in writing an encyclopedia. Given the level of disruption at this particular topic, I don't see sanctions like this as unreasonable, even if they are exclusive of some people. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:18, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

No More Mr Nice Guy

Request concerning No More Mr Nice Guy

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Oncenawhile (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:43, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: No More Mr Nice Guy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

04:54 to 06:35, 31 May 2015 Reversions made across the article in 9 edits, including the addition of "despite the accusations being groundless"
01:13 to 01:19, 1 June 2015 Two edits, including adding back a different form of words of the same clause: "although both Gat and Meir-Glitzenstein say this belief is unfounded"
01:21, 1 June 2015‎ One edit, again adding for a third time a similar form of words "although some academics say this belief is unfounded" (note that the previous editor that NMMNG reverted later outed himself as a SP here, although I do not believe NMMNG was aware of this at the time)

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive137#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive137#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

In case not clear from above, the above diffs breached 1RR.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: User_talk:No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy#1950–51 Baghdad bombings - AE

Discussion concerning No More Mr Nice Guy

Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy

Not sure what I'm being accused of here. I made 9 small edits so anyone can revert any specific problem they had with my edits. Oncenawhile reverted one of them, with an edit summary that it should be attributed inline, so I attributed it the next time I included the information. There's another edit where I put the text in the body of the article as well. What exactly is the problem here?

Also, would someone like to look into Oncenawhile's tendentious editing that required me to make these changes to the article? For example, compare his original edit here, inserting the text However, the allegations against the Zionist agents was viewed as "more plausible than most" by the British Foreign Office. with my edit here correcting the text to what the source actually says (currently ref #9 in the article), which doesn't mention "Zionist agents" at all. There are plenty more such examples, and I'm not even close to fixing all the tendentious stuff he put in this article. I think a BOOMERANG is in order. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 22:00, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Please also note that Oncenawhile made no attempt to discuss whatever problems he has with my edits with me, neither on the article talk page or my talk page. Moreover, he didn't even bother answering questions I posted on the article talk page, one of which relates to a source he added to the article. Did I say BOOMERANG already? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 22:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, now that he explained (without a timestamp) what the problem is (and at last answered my question on the talk page), I can address the accusations. The second and 3rd diffs are not reverts, they're me adding information, specifically attributing something per a request made by Oncenawhile. So I don't think there's a 1RR violation here. But if there is, tell me what to self-revert and I will. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning No More Mr Nice Guy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.