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| ::::::Furthermore, as ] points out, "A close paraphrase of one sentence from a book may be of low concern, while a close paraphrase of one paragraph of a two-paragraph article would be considered a serious violation ... The editor must be extra careful in these cases to extract the facts alone and present the facts in plain language, without carrying forward anything that could be considered 'creative expression'". I don't think there is any "creative expression" at all in either example -- this is all presentation of dry facts, in non-creative dry factual language. ] (]) 08:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | ::::::Furthermore, as ] points out, "A close paraphrase of one sentence from a book may be of low concern, while a close paraphrase of one paragraph of a two-paragraph article would be considered a serious violation ... The editor must be extra careful in these cases to extract the facts alone and present the facts in plain language, without carrying forward anything that could be considered 'creative expression'". I don't think there is any "creative expression" at all in either example -- this is all presentation of dry facts, in non-creative dry factual language. ] (]) 08:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | ||
| :::::::The quoted part of the example you cite (everything but "Her platform is") isn't a phrase I've chosen but the actual title of Nelson's platform, like a movie or book title, and not subject to my personal creativity as a writer. Describing Hobart with that exact phrasing, including a precise student body figure that's likely no longer accurate, lifted from the source is a choice. If you think I'm being unfair, ask one of the other DYK regulars to look over ] and if they're willing to give it a checkmark then I'll step quietly aside. - ] (]) 12:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | :::::::The quoted part of the example you cite (everything but "Her platform is") isn't a phrase I've chosen but the actual title of Nelson's platform, like a movie or book title, and not subject to my personal creativity as a writer. Describing Hobart with that exact phrasing, including a precise student body figure that's likely no longer accurate, lifted from the source is a choice. If you think I'm being unfair, ask one of the other DYK regulars to look over ] and if they're willing to give it a checkmark then I'll step quietly aside. - ] (]) 12:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | ||
| ::::::::Sure -- let's a DYK regular (or other seasoned editor) review. I think the example you point to, supported by multiple RSs, in one brief factual-laden sentence, falls precisely within ]. At the same time I'll round the figure that is reflected in the multiple RSs. ] (]) 17:56, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | |||
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Revision as of 17:56, 2 July 2015
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Ali Marpet
( )- ... that Ali Marpet is the highest-drafted NFL pick in the history of NCAA Division III American football?
- Reviewed: Terug tot Ina Damman.
5x expanded by Epeefleche (talk). Self-nominated at 21:24, 29 May 2015 (UTC).
Hook is short and punchy (and slightly tweaked for clarity), sourcing is thorough, and the text is detailed and sufficiently neutral. Article was 1597 characters of readable prose before expansion began and 10328 characters five days after, far exceeding the 5x expansion requirement. However, spot checks of the prose found close paraphrasing (such as "his size coming out of high school kept bigger schools away" from the Boston Globe and "His size when graduating from high school had kept bigger schools away" from the article) which needs to be cleared up before this can be promoted. - Dravecky (talk) 01:10, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
- Revisions have somewhat improved the situation but there are still whole long phrases that are word-for-word matches to sources like this one. - Dravecky (talk) 05:42, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I've made revisions, seeking to address your concerns. Epeefleche (talk) 06:00, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- It's better, but I still keep finding things like "Hobart, a private liberal arts institution of 2,396 students in the Finger Lakes region" (from the source) and "Hobart is a private liberal arts institution of 2,396 students in Geneva, in Upstate New York" (in the article) which still fall into close paraphrasing. - Dravecky (talk) 06:29, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- That falls squarely within the ambit of WP:LIMITED. Most of the words there are immutable -- Hobart, private, liberal arts, 2,396, students. However, I can and will change institution.
- That's similar, for example, to the DYK article for April Nelson saying " Her platform is "IOU, Improving Others Through U'", while the ref states: "Her platform is 'IOU, Improving Others Through You.'" -- that also, and similar instances, though close to the ref's language fall within WP:LIMITED, because: "Close paraphrasing is ... permitted when there are only a limited number of ways to say the same thing ...." That's the case when in single sentences the words are largely immutable words.
- Furthermore, as Misplaced Pages:Close paraphrasing#Substantial similarity points out, "A close paraphrase of one sentence from a book may be of low concern, while a close paraphrase of one paragraph of a two-paragraph article would be considered a serious violation ... The editor must be extra careful in these cases to extract the facts alone and present the facts in plain language, without carrying forward anything that could be considered 'creative expression'". I don't think there is any "creative expression" at all in either example -- this is all presentation of dry facts, in non-creative dry factual language. Epeefleche (talk) 08:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- The quoted part of the example you cite (everything but "Her platform is") isn't a phrase I've chosen but the actual title of Nelson's platform, like a movie or book title, and not subject to my personal creativity as a writer. Describing Hobart with that exact phrasing, including a precise student body figure that's likely no longer accurate, lifted from the source is a choice. If you think I'm being unfair, ask one of the other DYK regulars to look over Ali Marpet and if they're willing to give it a checkmark then I'll step quietly aside. - Dravecky (talk) 12:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- Sure -- let's a DYK regular (or other seasoned editor) review. I think the example you point to, supported by multiple RSs, in one brief factual-laden sentence, falls precisely within WP:LIMITED. At the same time I'll round the figure that is reflected in the multiple RSs. Epeefleche (talk) 17:56, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- The quoted part of the example you cite (everything but "Her platform is") isn't a phrase I've chosen but the actual title of Nelson's platform, like a movie or book title, and not subject to my personal creativity as a writer. Describing Hobart with that exact phrasing, including a precise student body figure that's likely no longer accurate, lifted from the source is a choice. If you think I'm being unfair, ask one of the other DYK regulars to look over Ali Marpet and if they're willing to give it a checkmark then I'll step quietly aside. - Dravecky (talk) 12:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- It's better, but I still keep finding things like "Hobart, a private liberal arts institution of 2,396 students in the Finger Lakes region" (from the source) and "Hobart is a private liberal arts institution of 2,396 students in Geneva, in Upstate New York" (in the article) which still fall into close paraphrasing. - Dravecky (talk) 06:29, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- I've made revisions, seeking to address your concerns. Epeefleche (talk) 06:00, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- Revisions have somewhat improved the situation but there are still whole long phrases that are word-for-word matches to sources like this one. - Dravecky (talk) 05:42, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
