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All Rows4

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by TopGun

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

TopGun (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – lTopGunl (talk) 23:39, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Log: Topic ban from India-Pakistan conflicts & Pakistani politics, Ban explaination by FPAS, Comment after requesting reconsideration (not declined reconsideration but has been made after the request, so I'm choosing to appeal to uninvolved admins).

Administrator imposing the sanction

Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, . The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by TopGun

The sanction has been made without assuming good faith and with lack of proper judgment and not giving me a chance of explaining - this is quite unfair and punitive. FPAS has accused me of showing gross lack of competence which is not remotely the case. The edit for which I was sanctioned as per the only explanation I got on my talkpage was this saying that it was not reinstating a version better than the one added by that user. In my defense, I had no problem if both got removed... I was infact reverting an SPA who first appeared at Talk:Kargil War in a sock infested RFC with several sock farms in play. I merely reverted this SPA on Indian Army based on his POV pushing. The version it consequently got reverted to (which was the original version beforehand - not my own addition to the article) contained possibly a slight POV which was mostly based around facts. This was removed in the next edit all together by another editor and I was completely fine by that. I did not dispute it, nor did I revert it... that alone showed that my revert to the SPA was a good faith revert on top of the fact that I hardly edit Indian Army. The edit in question is not worth anything more than a talkpage warning at max. It appears that this was an attempt to dish out even handed "punishments" to all involved in the dispute at Talk:Kargil War even though socks were the ones causing the havoc.

I will also note that editors have authority over content (not admins) and as I said to FPAS on my talkpage, I would not have disputed if he had reverted me as an editor - as seen in the removal in next edit of the same - so he has no justification for the sanction in that regard too. There was no pov warring from my side. On the other side (on a related mess), any edits I had made in Talk:Kargil War or the article were either reverting blatantly disruptive editors or obvious socks that any sane editor would revert or strike. The RFC was eventually so much over run by socks that it had to be closed without going forward. In the RFC, after noting my own part in consensus, I started to avoid engaging others and focused on SPI and sock hunting along with trying to stop an editwarring editor (through proper course of action including WP:BRD, talk page discussion and AN3) who was disrupting the same article on an unrelated issue . I edit intermittently, and when I do, I've not been accused or warned by an admin on my talkpage to be heading towards any kind of sanction since the last. What makes this revert such disruptive that it warrants a sanction without warning?

Some background: I have been dealing with a topic area which is highly sock infested. Starting from the abusive sock puppet, Darkness Shines who now returned to troll at this RFC and a few other articles (who I caught and reported along with his sock farm of IPs), there were some other obvious socks too. Dishing out sanctions even handedly is misjudgement and lack of common sense while handling such situations a fact accepted by an admin here with the statement that this is the exact aim of such socks. To cause so much disruption and muddy the waters so much that every one gets some kind of sanction. While this might have been considered something truly beyond control of unaware admins at that point in time, now when all are aware that obscure SPAs along with blatant socks are POV warring, this should not be allowed. Based on this and my block log addendum, working in this content area has earned me a lot of accusations and even admin actions - which were either reverted right then or later when the socks were recognized. My previous AE sanction was also later revealed to be resulted from a long time sock master abusing multiple socks since years and using them all to create fake consensus. I chose not to take this again to a noticeboard and avoid drama, but I'm mentioning this now to show the reviewing admin(s) the extent to which these two editors were socking and hounding my edits. This is relevant here because I suspect, in addition to Darkness Shines, OccultZone socks were also involved in this RFC (although blocked without report). In no way should I have received a sanction, not to mention a sanction escalated 6 month to stale actions that were previously related to / due to baiting of the mentioned sock masters based on FPAS's individual lack of judgment. Instead he should have asked a second opinion or acted impartially while using discretionary sanctions. This would be incompetent use of admin authority if not an abuse while imposing discretionary sanctions on an established editor. Although all my actions including my blocks, sanctions etc (baited or not) are all stale, the sock masters are still active and evidently hounding me and the topic area.

This massive hounding and trolling by socks should have atleast warranted a leeway to revert a (now blocked) nationalist SPA's POV to a last standing version without being sanctioned. Even if my edit was reverting to a POV version, it was not incompetent - the fact that I was catching so many socks is itself proof of competence in handling a POV sensitive, sock infested topic area. It is not an unforgivable offense to make such a revert and esp not one that warrants a quick sanction with no questions asked.

Therefore, I'd request to uninvolved admins that this sanction should be revoked / reverted.

PS. Pakistani politics (a part of the sanction) is an unrelated topic area I seldom edit (I don't know how that came in relation to "India-Pakistan wars and conflicts" disputes). --lTopGunl (talk) 23:44, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Response to Future Perfect at Sunrise

Your comment does not address the fact that I did not re-add the statement when it was removed. There was no disruption caused, no editwar (not even a second revert), neither was there any cycle of POV war which you claimed. It was a matter of content which I didn't dispute rather an editor that I considered not Kosher and all his editing in general to be disruptive (such as copy paste complete, exact, comments of IPs into RFC. I was bound to take a look at his editing history to see what other articles he was disrupting. Blanket reverting such SPAs does come in handy at times and the aim is to curb the content they are adding, esp. when dealing with such massive new accounts, out of 10s that I correctly caught to be disruptive and reverted their out right vios, one edit that reverted in bad content in a blanket revert (to another one of those disruptive SPAs) does not qualify as worthy of ban even if considered in context to the whole topic area. At this pace no established editors would be ready to put their hands into this and the socks get what they want (as it happened to the RFC, which got shut down with your WP:SUPERVOTE rather than no result as you ended it to be). I should not be made the scapegoat for what is wrong with the topic area - I'm one of the few editors who are trying to clean it up of socks... of both sides as I face them: ). --lTopGunl (talk) 12:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

• Future Perfect at Sunrise, JzG, so here we are... the editor I reverted has now been confirmed by Bbb23 & NeilN as a sock of the disruptive editor I was reverting else where. My assumption - and approach - was right (although I agree the edit should have been manually reverted with all POVs removed). The same editor was just reverted by Cluebot right before me on the same edit . Cluebot does not revert to itself by design to avoid editwar which is obviously why it was a single revert but I am sure this was not a false positive either - so would you be shutting down the bot as well? This is as far as good faith goes. I reverted a sock and nuking a sock's edits do not mean the reverter endorses previous versions. This topic ban is just unnecessary. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:12, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Response to Human3015

I restored the edit you mentioned on its own merits and I agree with reviewing quality of edits, correct but that does not mean that I am in favour of socking which is evident by my report of the same editor . I don't collaborate with socks or take their opinions into any consideration as you did here to file a report on sock's advise. It only appears the one you are mentioning just came back as soon as he saw you raise his edit and my topic ban . In this case, I was dealing with more socks than a few editors could have dealt with alone. I did what I could - the net result was that many sock farms got detected and blocked (see barnstars on my talk along with diffs above)... there's no need to cherry pick this single mistake (which I did not redo when I saw it was just bad both ways). We don't punish or flog editors on wikipedia. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

• Human3015, that is pure accusation of bad faith / WP:AOBF, that too not based on action rather inaction of mine towards another sock while I was busy catching a full sock farm. I reported Indian Karate Girl (sock of a banned Pakistani editor) just as it appeared along with its "opponent" sock. Both were done as they happened. Please note that as you chose to comment at this AE appeal, your own actions (esp. the ones here) are also under review. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:40, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• Human, you're involved... read the criteria on top of this appeal. You've had and have multiple disputes open with me including the one you are mentioning now. I think I've abundantly clarified your concerns that the edit in question was a mistake I accepted / let go long before any admin action. I'll just wait for other admins to comment. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:17, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Response to Shrikanthv

You (re)started the dispute on Kargil war (not me) that eventually lead to an RFC after editors having opinions about both sides had already achieved a consensus that was standing for long... but similar to Battle of Chawinda RFC, my stance in the dispute was correct as per results of Chawinda RFC. Anyway, what you are saying is purely content related. The fact that disputing content brings "turf war" (esp. of socks of banned editors) to an article should not scare away editors and is certainly no reason to ban them. Banned editors should never be allowed to scare away legit editing of an article. Although this has nothing at all to do with the edit that got me topic banned (which I have quite a few times accepted as a blanket revert and an obvious mistake)... I was merely in a content dispute here that was over run by socks (which I did a great effort catching and eventually shutting down). --lTopGunl (talk) 11:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Response to JzG

JzG, actually my stepping back would only help the socks. Since the time I've been topic banned, all those socks have resurfaced and caused much disruption before getting caught. Although I know my topic ban wouldn't stop me from filing an SPI or reporting a block / ban evasion (as that is illegit itself), however, many of these disruptive socks first appear to be genuine editors and I would really not be able to prevent such disruption with this ban (which I have been preventing before) as I won't be able to raise disputes. As for editwar, If you see most of my reverts don't go above 2 (and never ever above 3RR)... I've never reverted so much as to raise any issues of editwar itself, I also show clear indication by starting a talkpage discussion and stopping to revert that I do not intend to editwar whenever I'm in disputes (unless I'm reverting a WP:DUCK confirmed sock). --lTopGunl (talk) 14:28, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

• The reverts you called editwar (that too not violating 3RR or showing any indication of continuing to revert) are now confirmed to have been to socks, mostly of a single master. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:40, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Future Perfect at Sunrise

The edit I pointed out to TopGun is, of course, not the only matter at hand here, but it is representative of what's wrong with this entire topic area and with TopGun's own approach to it. TopGun is arguing essentially that because the other editor involved was a POV-pushing SPA, he was justified in blanket-reverting it without looking at the merits of the edit. Well, no, he wasn't justified in doing so. In the present situation on those India-Pakistan topics, where several sock farms and crowds of POV-warriors are fighting with each other, all because each of them (rightly) thinks the other side is POV-pushing and then (wrongly) concludes you have to fight that other side with dirty tricks, the very last thing we need is editors making blanket reverts as a routine reaction. The edit in question did not just contain "possibly a slight POV", as TopGun claims now. It contained the grossly obvious (and ridiculously misplaced) POV editorializing of " which ought to be a part of Pakistan. Therefore Pakistan Army had to step in"; it contained the unsourced and equally POV statement that "people of Kashmir wanted to be a part of Pakistan", plus it contained multiple instances of horribly bad grammar (to be fair, the remaining text around it is still equally full of those, but the alternative text parts Tejas MRCA had inserted instead were noticeably better). Tejas MRCA had provided a clear and informative edit summary explaining that he was undoing an old POV edit by some other account that had slipped through some weeks ago . It took only a minute to check the editing profile of that old account to verify Tejas MRCA's assertion (well, except for the fact that he'd wrongly labelled it as "vandalism", when it was "just" a gross POV edit). TopGun's knee-jerk reaction of reverting to this horribly bad edit, merely because he instinctively distrusted the editor who had removed it, was just the paradigm case of the type of action that keeps these vicious circles of revert-warring moving. A responsible editor would have taken the edit, looked at it, recognized what was wrong with both versions, and tried to reword it into something that did justice to both POVs. If you're not willing or able to do that, you shouldn't be editing this topic area at all. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:10, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Human3015

I'm Human3015. There is some indirect mention of mine here, the main central article here Indian army was later edited by me, and there was some discussion between TopGun and FPAS on my talk page. I just want to say that, as said by FPAS this sanction on TopGun is not just for this one gross edit, but for his overall attitude. You can see user page of User:TopGun, it have many user templates, one if it is "This user supports unification of Kashmir with Pakistan". We don't have to think that he is hardcore nationalist just because of this one template but this can be just one of evidence. And he claim that he just blanket revert sock it doesn't matters merit of edit, ok, but see deep edit history of article Anti-Pakistan sentiment, Excipient0 who is sock of Nangparbat first time deleted apparently relevant and sourced matter from said article , who was later reverted by many including Cluebot NG . But this time TopGun don't think about blanket revert of sock rather he go for merit of edit and lastly Excipient0's version restored by TopGun . Here apparently relevant and sourced edit he feel original research, ok, it can be a original research even if edit war was started by sock still we should go for merit of edit. We should check for quality of edit as said by TopGun in restoring sock's version. But he forgot these point while reverting sensible edits by sock on Indian army. --Human3015 knock knock • 10:08, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

• You reported Indian-Karate-girl only after you got topic banned maybe to show how neutral you are, while you never cared to investigate Excipient0 on Anti-Pakistan sentiment when he was active in edit warring and apparently a sock puppet at that time, maybe because he was pushing your POV. In fact, at last you restored Excipiant0's version. --Human3015 knock knock • 12:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• TopGun, you blamed me for doing this sockpuppet investigation on request of other socks. Ok. First of all I never consider any IP or New User as sock at first place, because I am involved in welcoming many IPs and New Users to Misplaced Pages by welcome template, so I'm very used to with such IPs or New Users, thats why I never started sock puppet investigation against Excipiant0 because he was new user. Also as our discussion is going on "quality" or "merit" of edit than who posts it, I thought advice of that IP was sensible, as I explained in that sock investigation anyone could have perception that he is sock of TripWire, as we know behavior of TripWire, he is also topic banned, see here in detail. Admin FPAS even called him "harmful" to project and "tendentious nationalist POV editor", these are findings of admin. But I was knowing it since long as we were involved in some articles. So as per my Misplaced Pages experience, such users do have some sock puppets, so my suspicion was worth and was based on the "merit" it doesn't matters who gave me idea for that. --Human3015 knock knock • 13:29, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• Moreover, TopGun want to shift focus of discussion on me. I'm here actually uninvolved editor, because I have not done any ANI to Topic ban TopGun, or I have not requested FPAS to Topic Ban TopGun, but still TopGun moved my comment from un-involved editor to involved editor maybe in the hope that in case Human3015 will also get topic banned. In the start of my comment I have explained my limited role in this issue. Moreover, since he got topic banned my talk page has received many advices, they want to highlight me also. As soon as TopGun topic banned advice by Nangparbat's sock, Indian Karate Girl, advice by TripWire, advice by TopGun himself, and most recent advice by Faizan. There is one "research" posted by Pro-Indian sock against one allegedly Pro-Pakistani "group" of editors related to "India-Pakistan Conflict" which also includes TopGun, though this research is posted by a sock but as we are going by "merit" of the comment this should be considered. --Human3015 knock knock • 14:08, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• TopGun you said "we have many disputes open between us". You have to name few. I don't think that we have any pending dispute. As far as Indian Army edit is concerned its not dispute, you accepted current version as of now. On Anti-Pakistan sentiment you reverted me then I just left the topic without reverting you so no dispute is there also. Which dispute you are talking about? As far as detailed research of sock is concerned I have no issue over it. So what dispute we have which makes me involved editor? I have never reported you to any board like "Edit warring","conflict of interest", "DRN", "ANI", "Vandalism" nor you reported me for the same. So what pending disputes we have? And whatever disputes we had in past, that much of disputes you had with many other editors, why you are not involving them here? What makes me special? --Human3015 knock knock • 14:36, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Shrikanthv

Eventhough Topgun has contributed greatly to Pakistan related articles, I agree with this topic ban, seems to allways bring up turf war by bringing in controvercial wordings in the article often leading to long RFC'S e.g Battle of chawinda and can be looked here, finally had to inform all the communities involved and took long discussions to close, same ideology was repeated here at Kargil war the wordings change was totally not needed on who is superior to whom and after opening an RFC, we can also see vigorous reverts and strong sentimental tagging and commenting on each responce. as it is only a topic ban, that too related only with INDIA-Pakistan this should be of no great loss to his contribution and also should save lot of future RFC'S which will come if he is left to edit in this topic Shrikanthv (talk) 10:03, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by TopGun

"Indian troops were airlifted to Srinagar, which ought to be a part of Pakistan. Therefore Pakistan Army had to step in"? You're responsible for your edits, regardless of what SPAs or socks are doing. I could buy you were being hasty and reverting more based on who was editing than what the edit was. It would be better to simply acknowledge that mistake than write a wall of text of "socks made me do it". Mntzzr (talk · contribs) needs scrutiny for the original edit. Rhoark (talk) 00:59, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Rhoark, I agree, it might have been a POV version on par with the one added later, but is it a sanction-able offense while blanket reverting an SPA (not going in and typing in that text)? I don't agree - a note on talkpage would have suffice. I don't mean to say the socks made me do it, simply reverted to whatever version was standing last (my whole statement narrows down to what you are saying; that an editor should be given enough leeway - to make a few mistakes without being cherry picked - based on "who" he is reverting when dealing with explained situation). And as another editor completely removed it, I realized it was better now. Did I even remotely showed signs that I would add that version back after that? No. I think that is plain acceptance even before FPAS ever went through that edit --lTopGunl (talk) 01:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by TopGun

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• It seems very much as if TopGun would benefit from a break from this topic. If I were TopGun, I would be very much inclined to walk away, wikignome elsewhere for a couple of months, and return refreshed, at which point an unambiguous record of (a) abiding by what is clearly a defensible restriction and (b) showing commitment to Misplaced Pages rather than one side in a hotly contested area, will make an appeal more likely to succeed. Or, just wait it out. I do not see any realistic likelihood of success for this appeal since TopGun has indeed been edit-warring from a specific POV, regardless of the merits of any of the edits reverted. Guy (Help!) 20:43, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Neptune's Trident

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Neptune's Trident

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Thorrand (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:17, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Neptune's Trident (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Scope_of_standard_topic_ban_.28I.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. July 4, 2015 Created a page for the company owned by brianna wu, violating topic ban
2. 4 July, 2015 Editing the created page which violates the topic ban imposed
3. 4 July, 2015 Editing the created page which violates the topic ban imposed
4. 5 July, 2015 Editing the created page which violates the topic ban imposed

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 12 March, 2015 Topic banned from the gamergate controversy broadly construed

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Editor is in clear violation of the block already imposed on them

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Neptune%27s_Trident&diff=670135134&oldid=670127448

Discussion concerning Neptune's Trident

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Neptune's Trident

If I can be totally honest, the reason I got banned from this topic was because I requested out of good will, (Redacted). This was NOT done out of malice or slander. I simply thought Brianna Wu, listening to her in interviews on NPR and other news outlets (Redacted). I didn't have any reliable sources to back that up so I was pretty much given a 48 hour ban from Misplaced Pages when I was just trying to improve the article, and my guess is some administrators thought I was being (Redacted) or trying to intentionally slander a subject of a Misplaced Pages article. I got upset and tried to explain this to the person who gave me the 48 hour ban that I was not trying to slander anyone or (Redacted) or put false information on an already locked Misplaced Pages article, and that was like red to a bull and another administrator gave me a longer ban on top of that. I wasn't going to respond to this since I'm expecting much the same reaction. I hesitated before adding the link to the Giant Spacekat article on the Gamergate article, thinking, I shouldn't do that, but I just wanted to make the one edit and leave it at that. I admit it, I made a mistake, yet the reasons for me being "banned" from the subject matter were totally unfair in my opinion. I said nothing about the ban since I felt it wouldn't do any good, I was clearly outnumbered, But I foolishly pressed the save button and made the edit on the Gamergate controversy article and here we are. Neptune's Trident (talk) 18:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

• Yes, and that's exactly what Strongjam (talk) did to my comments previously when I got the ban, Strongjam redacted the statement, i.e. changed the meaning of what I was trying to say and to make it look like I was saying something I was not to the person who gave me the 48 hour ban, but again, I was outnumbered, so changing the meaning of MY statement so it is palatable to another editor, in this case Strongjam, didn't help the last time when this all began.

You can see how Strongjam changed my statement from before right here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Neptune%27s_Trident&diff=651082500&oldid=651080468

Maybe Strongjam was trying to help yet it didn't seem that way at the time, I could be wrong though. I'm just hoping I get a fair shake here and not just ganged up on by the same people who gave me, what I felt, was an unwarranted ban on this topic, thanks.

And what good does it do for me to give a statement and some other editor and come along and redacted or re-edited as THEY WANT it? Isn't it supposed to be my statement? Neptune's Trident (talk) 19:14, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

• Hello, Gamaliel (talk), I made a statement about this. And it has been re-edited by another editor. Yes, I felt the Gamergate ban was unfair, yet I didn't bother to appeal since I felt no would listen to me when I got the ban. Neptune's Trident (talk) 19:18, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Strongjam

Just a note that I've redacted some of Neptune's Trident statement. WP:BLP applies here as well and I don't think repeating the exact details of the edit that brought on the topic ban is needed anyway. — Strongjam (talk) 18:58, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

@Neptune's Trident: I'm just trying to make sure we stay in line with our WP:BLP policy. I am not trying to change the meaning of your statement, either now or before. The original blocking admin is quite capable of looking at the history and seeing your original statement. Also, note that on this page you should edit your own section and refrain from editing other editor's sections. — Strongjam (talk) 19:22, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

Neptune seems to be a WikiGnome with a strong aversion to talk pages, doing a lot of wikilinks, infoboxes, and company stubs. Most of the links in the section for evidence of awareness are broken, and don't seem to apply to this user. I certainly don't see them mentioned in the ArbCom decision. They were apparently topic banned in March due to a rev del'd edit to Talk:Brianna Wu, which if I had to guess I'd bet was a request to edit the infobox that hit on hot-button MOS:IDENTITY issues. If there's a rhyme or reason to the pages they choose to do their gnome thing, I don't see it. Certainly not any detectable battleground mentality. They may be a field test of IBM Watson, or a Roomba. I suggest a formal admonishment. Rhoark (talk) 23:53, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Bosstopher

Given that they went and did it again, I was wondering if anyone explained to Neptune's Trident over email or something exactly why what they're doing is a BLP violation? Their actions seem to be less out of malice and more out of complete failure to understand BLP policy amongst certain other things. Bosstopher (talk) 19:15, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Darwinian Ape

I don't know what is the degree of the BLP violation since it was redacted from Neptune's Trident's statement, but reading other editors' statements, I gather it was not a grave one or that it's probably an honest mistake. At least his repeat of the said BLP violation seems to me purely to inform how he got the topic ban and not to actually repeat it. Bad judgement, not bad faith. This topic has been the demise of so many editors left and right, I fear gamergate gods demand blood once again.:) What I would suggest is given that there is evidence this person may be acting in good faith and just ignorant of the law, we should excuse this breach and give him a formal admonishment. I would further suggest his ban to be lifted, if Neptune can agree to stay away from the topic itself and be very very careful not to violate BLP policies any further, so that small and noncontroversial edits of his would not end up in AE. Either way, a block to me seems like punitive rather than preventative. Darwinian Ape 05:55, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MarkBernstein

If I recall the BLP violation that I came across and reported to Oversight -- and there have been so many of these that I may be confused – it was the sort of thing that has, in other cases, led some people to suicide, and in other cases incited massive lawsuits. Let’s not get carried away with how minor and harmless the violation was; BLP is a fairly bright line. MarkBernstein (talk) 17:56, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Neptune's Trident

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• @Neptune's Trident: I'd really like to hear your response to this request. It appears that you have committed a clear-cut violation of your topic ban. Gamaliel (talk) 19:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
• It can't have escaped this editor's notice that he is banned from Gamergate. The last block was for one month, and I suggest that a new one-month block is indicated. He states above that his ban is unfair, but if so, the right thing to do is appeal the ban, not violate it. EdJohnston (talk) 19:15, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

• I'm a bit torn here. The topic ban itself is clearly needed, as this editor has proven with his statement here, which required redacting. Their motives are likely innocent and not malicious, but he has demonstrated he needs to exhibit more thoughtfulness and caution when dealing with BLP issues. The ban violation was pretty harmless, but this editor does not understand that the appropriate response to a a topic ban is not to do nothing to challenge it and then violate it when they think no one is looking. Gamaliel (talk) 20:55, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

If the editor can't hold himself back from repeated BLP violations, he probably doesn't belong on Misplaced Pages. Note that some of what he presented in his statement here at AE has been oversighted. My guess is that he must have been repeating the same assertions that got him blocked back on March 12. (The March edits are only revdelled). EdJohnston (talk) 21:15, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Ed, and in fact would be fine with following the usual escalating block sequence to three months. T. Canens (talk) 21:25, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

• I'm in two minds. On the one hand, it's a pretty clear-cut violation of the topic ban, and the comments here show that NT hasn't learnt that he can't just keep repeating things. On the other, it doesn't appear that he intends malice and it's possible that he doesn't understand the seriousness of the situation from a policy perspective. Had this come to my talk page, I probably would have contented myself with a stern warning and words of advice, probably followed by an indefinite block if the advice wasn't heeded. I don't object to a definite-duration block along the lines of a month (three is a little on the harsh side, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it), but I wonder if the softly softly approach might yield a better result in the long term? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:06, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Arthur Rubin

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Arthur Rubin

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

HughD (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:36, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

1. 5 September 2013 Case Tea Party movement Arthur Rubin topic-baned
2. 23 August 2014 Case Tea Party movement Arthur Rubin amendment

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 12:37, 3 July 2015 disruptive edit, removal of NPOV article page hat
2. 05:22, 6 July 2015 disruptive edit, restoration of NPOV article page hat
3. 05:30, 6 July 2015 solicitation of an editor to evade enforcement

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 5 September 2013 TBan as party to TPM case
2. 14 December 2013 blocked for a week
3. block log
4. 23 August 2014 Amendment request; TBan lifted; indefinite 1RR imposed, with appeal available August 2015
5. Editor restrictions summary

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
• Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
• Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 14 December 2013 by Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
• Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, 23 August 2014.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Respectfully request advice on whether or not a violation of sanctions has occurred here, first time AE filing here, thank you for your patience.

Background context: Americans for Prosperity is at the intersection of the Tea Party movement, American politics, and climate change. Since March 2015 the article has undergone an extensive collaborative good article drive. The article attracted increased attention as the article approached the completeness required by good article criteria. The article was subjected to content blanking including section blanking and deletion of numerous reliable source references on 22 June 2015. 1RR was imposed. Several threads concerning the neutrality of the article were started at article talk, including "NPOV issue," "NPOV tag," and "Koch Brothers and weight in coverage." Discussion was active and involved about a dozen or so editors, including the reported user. An entirely appropriate NPOV article hat was added 30 June, deleted and restored 1 July.

Reported user behavior: On 3 July the reported user removed the NPOV article hat, without discussion, despite the active, multi-thread, multi-editor talk page discussion on the neutrality of the article, and despite in fact of an existing article talk page thread entitled "NPOV tag." The reported user was requested to self-revert the disruptive removal of the NPOV article hat, at article talk and at his user talk. On 5 July, some content was restored not favored by the reported editor, and the reported editor restored the NPOV article hat, again without discussion, and again despite the article talk page thread on "NPOV tag." The reported user then solicited a fellow editor to circumvent the edit restrictions.

I respectfully feel slow edit warring over NPOV hats, soliciting to circumvent edit restrictions, and encouraging less experienced editors in arguing that a local consensus may be used to override our neutrality pillar, were not the type of constructive edits we had in mind when we granted the reported user a relaxation of his topic ban to one revert per week. I am disappointed an administrator is not modelling best behavior at this troubled article, and saddened to have to ask for comments on this behavior less than two months before an appeal is available to the reported user. Thank you for your time and attention on this.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

User talk:Arthur Rubin Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration. Requests Enforcement Arthur Rubin

Discussion concerning Arthur Rubin

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Arthur Rubin

I fail to see removing an {{NPOV}} tag which HughD disruptively added, and then restoring it after another editor reverted to a version just before another {{NPOV}} was added (the discussion after that tag resulted in the resolution of the issue which Hugh brought up), could possibly be disruptive. As for 1RR, one could argue that the "V"'s revert made my first revert moot, but I chose not to do that. My request at Onel5969's talk page did amount to canvassing.

In other words, only the canvassing was even potentially disruptive.

Hugh added the NPOV tag after his attempt to "blackwash" the article was reversed, in response to multiple discussions which resulted in none of his many requests being accepted.

This page differs from most noticeboards in that the reporter cannot be sanctioned. Perhaps something should be done about that. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:47, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

No offense intended, Onel5969, but I believe I removed the NPOV tag once in your sequence of events. Perhaps HughD added it twice? No, I found it. Just after "HughD promptly reverted", I re-reverved, quoting guidelines (as Hugh's action 1). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:17, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

No offense taken. I had meant to put that in. Thanks, I've added it now. Onel5969 20:29, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

May I suggest the the reporting editor's failed attempt to get the article talk page consensus reversed on almost every content noticeboard be considered something like canvassing; personally, I consider it worse, as it is mostly edit warriors who monitor the content boards about subjects that they are not particularly interested in. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 23:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Onel5969

1. Consensus was reached on the talk page regarding several NPOV issues which were occurring. Of the several editors involved, only HughD was in disagreement.
2. HughD has been blocked at least 4 times in the past 4 months for disruptive behavior. In at least two of those instances he unsuccessfully appealed the block.
3. HughD began a pattern of forumshopping and campaigning listing discussions regarding this article on at least 8 different venues. A campaign which is beginning to bear fruit, as editors who had previously not worked on the article, have now begun appearing on the talk page, in response to HughD's other posting.
4. Even though the article had reached an NPOV by consensus, since HughD did not agree (and at the time, prior to his campaigning, he was the only editor to not agree), he placed an NPOV tag at the top of the page.
5. I removed the NPOV tag, stating that consensus did not agree with his tag.
6. HughD promptly reverted.
7. Arthur Rubin then reverted HughD's revert.
8. Another editor then, even though consensus had earlier been reached, and current discussion had not reached a consensus to change that position, reverted the entire article to the original NPOV version - that is the editor who should be blocked from editing on the article.
9. Since the article was now back in the NPOV version, Arthur Rubin added the NPOV tag.
10. This appears to be just another one of HughD's actions in a pattern of disruptive behavior, and failure to seek consensus, or listen to that consensus once it is arrived at. Onel5969 20:00, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kingsindian

(Uninvolved, except for participating in an RfC, at least I think it is an RfC)

Can someone explain to me this massive 50k-sized edit, claiming consensus on talk page, by someone who hasn't participated much at all there, and never previously made an edit on the article page? This edit was made in between diff 1 and diff 2, which probably explains the diffs. Some very strange things are going on here.

As a point of correction to Arthur Rubin, the reporter can indeed be sanctioned, if you provide evidence. Kingsindian ♝♚ 20:11, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

No one has addressed it. It should be reverted. I am requesting rollback from an admin. DaltonCastle (talk) 04:18, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by HughD

Yes, user Onel5969 also pointedly removed an entirely appropriate NPOV article hat, while a multi-thread, multi-editor talk page discussion of neutrality was ongoing, but his behavior is not the subject of this report, thank you. Reviewers of this report are respectfully requested to ask commenting editor Onel5969 to kindly identify via a diff the point at which the talk page consensus, or talk page consensus minus one, on the neutrality of the article that he claims was achieved (there wasn't one). Hugh (talk) 20:40, 6 July 2015 (UTC) Further, kindly request links substantiating reprimands or other censure for claims of forum shopping, canvassing, or other. The commenting user has been relentlessly critical of any effort to utilize resources available to all Wikipedians in promoting a collaborative editing environment. Thank you Hugh (talk) 21:07, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Reviewers of this report are respectfully asked to note that commenting user Onel5069 is the user that the reported user attempted to enlist in a program of team circumvention of edit restrictions, one of many events conspicuously neglected from his chronology, above. Thank you. Hugh (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Kingsindian, Thank you for your engagement in this issue. In answer to your question, the edit you mention, was a good faith attempt, by an until recently uninvolved editor Viriditas, to revert the article, to a state prior to the "content blanking including section blanking and deletion of numerous reliable source references on 22 June 2015" mentioned above in the initial statement; by the way for the record please note this blanking was performed by commenting user Onel5969, please see diff 10:59, 23 June 2015 through 23:57, 23 June 2015 , another event conspicuously neglected from his chronology, above. Please let me know if I can help provide additional background on the recent history of this article. Thanks again. Hugh (talk) 20:59, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

May I respectfully express to reviewers of this report that the reported user please not be encouraged in his attempt to plead guilty to a lessor charge of canvassing in hopes that his behavior in soliciting another editor to circumvent edit restriction sanctions not be noticed. Thank you. Hugh (talk) 22:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Capitalismojo

I fail to see the difficutly. AR removes a tag, AR restores the same tag. Why are we wasting time here with this? This seems to be merely battlegrounding by the OP. Capitalismojo (talk) 23:13, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Champaign Supernova

Zzzz. OP is having trouble achieving consensus on this article's talk page so he appears to be trying to pick off his perceived adversaries through an overly legalistic interpretation of discretionary sanctions. I interpret AR's edits in good faith and there is no ongoing edit war over the tags so let's all move along now. Champaign Supernova (talk) 23:21, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Comatmebro

Agreed, Champaign Supernova. This seems like a little bit dramatic, in my own personal opinion. The edits of AR have not been disruptive nor malicious, and I believe he was solely trying to follow consensus. I don't see a problem here. Thanks to all the editors involved. Cheers, Comatmebro User talk:Comatmebro 15:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved Beyond My Ken

FWIW, I bring this AN/I thread to the attention of AE admins. You will have to judge whether it has any relevance to this complaint. BMK (talk) 04:15, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Result concerning Arthur Rubin

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• This diff appears to be evidence of a battleground mentality. Gamaliel (talk) 19:15, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
• "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

That said, between this and the ANI and the talk page this is going to take a lot of reading. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:44, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Collect

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Collect

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Fyddlestix (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:26, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Collect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect and others#Collect topic-banned (option 2) :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 10 July 2015 Accusing the user who brought the Arbcom case against him (MrX) of being a "partisan campaign worker," linking political content on his talk page.
2. 10 July 2015 Linking and commenting about the content of the article Koch family on his talk page.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Collect was banned by arbcom from "any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace." I believe the above edits violate both the spirit and the letter of that ban. The links making accusations against MrX, in particular, seem to demonstrate Collect's determination to continue his battleground behavior in relation to US politics, in violation of his topic ban.

I will say, in all fairness to Collect, that he was pointing out a serious BLP violation on the Koch family article, which has since (quite rightly) been removed. The first diff, however, seems (to me) to be completely out of line, and likely worthy of sanction even if it wasn't a violation of his topic ban.

Update: In case this is unclear, I'll offer a more detailed explanation of the context for Diff number 1, above: In that diff, Collect links this facebook post, on the page of a Democratic Party organization. Note that the image credit on that page is given to "wikipedia user MrX." The image appears to be a modification of this one, which MrX uploaded to wikimedia commons under a creative common license in 2011. The license allows free use but requires that "User:MrX" be given credit. Apparently Collect thinks this is evidence of MrX being a worker for the democratic party.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here

Discussion concerning Collect

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Collect

I suggest that if my talk page is not usable by me to point out a case where a person tried connecting living persons to a Nazi War Criminal (asserting that Ilse Koch (a Koch by marriage in Germany) was a direct relative of the US Koch family) - an assertion unrelated to "US Politics" per se - that the topic ban area is too damn broad by half. I have made no political edits at all, no reverts at all, and still I am harassed by the very same folks who harassed me in the past (including an absurd SPI when I was blocked from even replying to the charge!) - and about whom I gave evidence by email to ArbCom members. I suggest the OP be politely told to ignore me, rather than harass me at every opportunity. I note that I was OVERSEAS during a period when I asked for additional time to answer the "charges" and was denied any delay. For what it is worth, my wife had a malignant melanoma operation two weeks ago (her second in six months) where about 800cc of her arm was removed. I am sure someone will snidely comment that this was "convenient" for sure. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:43, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I note the OP admits the first item was not even worthy of a complaint - but he still raised it.

The second issue is one of possible COI for one of the complainants in the ArbCom case - and was again not political per se, but addresses a possible and likely all too real problem for Misplaced Pages. I specifically stated "Note: the fact that a campaign distributes an image from a specific wikipedian may not mean they are aware of that usage, of course." At least I did not mention that one of the prime complainants basically told ArbCom "Too slow, fuck off" in his Diva-quit. Further Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:47, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Note that the harasser is ascribing statements to me which I did not make (i.e. a claim that I wrote about MrX specifically) -- in fact I specifically stated that the person might not even be aware that his image is being used. If this is not pushing the hounding beyond the pale, I do not know what would count. I never posted the editor's name at all. Period. Collect (talk) 18:14, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@MrX - read my posts. I made no claims about you at all. I did not even post your name. Period. Collect (talk) 18:16, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Statement by MrX

Am I to understand that I have been accused by innuendo of being a partisan campaign worker because a Facebook group used one of my Commons photos and attributed it to me, as they are legally obligated to do? This is new low.

For the record, I don't associate in any way with any political organization whatsoever, nor am I a member of any political party, not that it's anyone's business but my own.- MrX 17:02, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Result concerning Collect

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• To me, both look like clear violations. It might be possible to excuse the chronologically first ("Koch") per "BLP beats everything", but that gets a bit tired. Collect is not actually the only user capable of recognising and addressing these problems. The other ("MrX") is clearly on violation of the topic ban. I'd say Collect's misinterpretation of the situation is almost comical, and a clear illustration of the battleground mentality ArbCom tried to curb. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)