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Bernardo O'Reilly was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 18 March 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into The Magnificent Seven. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Text and/or other creative content from Bernardo O'Reilly was copied or moved into The Magnificent Seven with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Westerns, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Western genre on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WesternsWikipedia:WikiProject WesternsTemplate:WikiProject WesternsWesterns C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Section in re Seven and Samurai

I very reluctantly added the OR tag (as well as the overall ref lacking tag) today. I would really welcome this section sprouting some cites. This is one of my favourite films, and I'd love to see this taken care of. Cordially, Drieux 07:50, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

made appropriate changes and removed tag (forgot to log in tho, so it looks anon) — Demong _talk 22:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes

This article claims that the prog band Yes used part of this film's score on one of its albums. I've not been able to find proof of this anywhere, and whoever wrote it did not provide a citation. Can someone be more specific as when they used the score (on what song or album)? Otherwise that should probably be deleted. Prezuiwf (talk) 19:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sturges3.jpg

Image:Sturges3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Misplaced Pages article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Seven Samurai remake?

Should this article mention the proposed Seven Samurai remake, or should that remain in the Seven Samurai article? Cactusjump (talk) 00:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

No. Yes. B00P (talk) 09:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Location?

A number of references cite (the state of) Morelos, Mexico as the location used for The Magnificent Seven. There are reference to a location used on the US/Mexican border, also (most likely referring to Morelos, Agua Prieta, SON, Mexico just south of Douglas, AZ, USA).

The question at hand is regarding the appearance of the Agavaceae Yucca brevifolia Engelm, better know as a Joshua Tree. In a number of scenes this plant is prominently shown and adds great texture to the composition. The Joshua tree growing area is mainly the high desert of the Mojave. While there are different varieties of the Yuccas found in the Southwest, this plant in the movie creates a desire to find better confirmation of the location.

sstolarik 16:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.12.163.15 (talk)

Surviving Cast Members

This article says Robert Vaughan is the only surviving cast member. I don't know about the other credited actors, but of the seven, Eli Wallach is apparently still alive as of 11 Oct 2009. Blearner

Wallach was not one of the Seven, he played the bandit leader Calvera!

Films based on this one and SS

Shouldn't there be a link to films like Battle Beyond the Stars and A Bug's Life, which are based on this plot of TMS and SS? Mathewignash (talk) 14:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Bernardo O'Reilly

There were no unanimous decision in previous discussion, whether to merge this article or to keep it with further expanding and fullfilling. -- SerdechnyG (talk) 08:04, 18 March 2010 (UTC) As I suggested then, other characters Vin and Chico, are definatly significant, but they wasn't such popular in russian-speaking world like O'Reilly and Britt. We must take it into account, that in different countries popularity of each single character was also different. -- SerdechnyG (talk) 08:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I made a compromise close; it's discussed further on my talk p. DGG ( talk ) 17:49, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

• ATTENTION! TO ALL M7 FANS: I've created an article User:SerdechnyG/Bernardo O'Reilly, and those of you, who are disagree with merging it to the Magnificent Seven article, or have some interesting information, can share it, and help me to improve this article and contest the merger. -- SerdechnyG (talk) 19:38, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

• This merger was duly decided in an AfD. If you disagree, you can go to DRV (deletion review). --Crusio (talk) 20:38, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I've allready expressed my disagreement (above) right before you cut it. After article would be expanded and fullfilled with souced information - I'll go to the DRV. -- SerdechnyG (talk) 19:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Why concentrate on paring off information for separate (and apparently non-notable) character articles when the production section for the film itself is so bare? Alastairward (talk) 23:17, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Seven Samurai vs Magnificent Seven (Section)

This section seems to be nothing more than original research. It also contributes nothing to both movies as they are entirely different productions. The section is trying too hard to credit differences but Sturges was not making a shot-for-shot remake but a Western based on the Japanese story. A credit that is given at the start of the MS film.

The whole section smacks of "he said, they said" making it border almost on the trivial because there can be no limit to the comparisons however inane! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.35.226.167 (talk) 20:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Publicity photo with Cast

(Forgive my lack of formatting or knowledge of wikipedia terminology, this is my first time looking into making a contribution)

My Dad, an avid Magnificent 7 fan, wants to contribute a publicity photo of the cast members, all sitting in folding chairs with their names. He got it from press kit when the film was released in 1960. There is no copyright information included with the photo, so it might fall under PD-pre1978 (?), but this being a *press* kit for a *movie*, I'm thinking the image must be under some kind copyright. If I'm reading the image uploading guidelines correctly, the fact that there is this doubt is reason enough not to comtribute it. Correct? Thanks!

--Flickercuts (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Influence on A Bug's Life

The article says that "The Pixar Animation Studios film A Bug's Life is also clearly based on the themes in "The Magnificent Seven" including: the Ant colony (Mexican village), the invading Grasshoppers (Caldera's gang), the Circus Bugs (the Magnificent Seven themselves); the battle, reversal and eventual triumph...even the music is clearly evocative of the sweeping, memorable themes in the "The Magnificent Seven".." Why say that A Bug's Life is influenced by The Magnificent Seven instead of that both are influenced by Seven Samurai? The only element said to be specific to The Magnificent Seven is the music, and there's no source regarding the similarity of the music in the two films. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.40.79.39 (talk) 03:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

That paragraph probably shouldn't have been kept anyway (I just removed it). The persuasive language (e.g. repeated use of "clearly") and the lack of source make it look like original research. That being said, however, it's not invalid to think of a derivative work as an influence. For example, if I've only seen the derivative work and never the original, is it fair to say I was influenced by the original? I think it's more accurate to say I was influenced directly by the derivative work (perhaps indirectly by the original, but that's a bit misleading, and involves some synthesis, and might be slightly superfluous information anyway). --Fru1tbat (talk) 12:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The Sword Kurosawa Presented To John Sturges

It has been reported that Akira Kurosawa presented John Sturges with a samurai sword after viewing The Magnificent Seven. I felt this was noteworthy of inclusion and did so using a reputable third-party source as per Misplaced Pages guidelines. Now user Hijiri88 is waging an "edit war" with me on the issue, claiming I am in error. It is true some question the story, but there are no reputable third-party sources to back it up, only personal blog entries like this one: https://satorukun0530.wordpress.com/2015/05/10/did-kurosawa-really-give-a-samurai-sword-to-john-sturges/

I insist that this anecdote is worthy of mention, and will tweak it to reflect how some doubt the story as soon as I uncover a Misplaced Pages-worthy third party source.TH1980 (talk) 22:45, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

All right, I went and tweaked the entry so it read like this: "Akira Kurosawa, however, was reportedly so impressed by the film that he presented John Sturges with a sword." Can we please compromise with this?TH1980 (talk) 23:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

This book describes the gift as a "ceremonial sword", as does the source it cites — visible only as a snippet on Google Books, which says "Sturges received a ceremonial sword from Kurosawa after the Japanese director saw the film and enjoyed it." So the new wording seems fine to me. There is another thread at Talk:John_Sturges#"Samurai sword"? KateWishing (talk) 23:08, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you KateWishing for finding a source that actually gives the proper detail. TH1980 apparently doesn't understand that taking a problematic source like the Ryan article and "fixing it" without a better source is a violation of WP:NOR, but your sources have solved the problem. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay, Hijiri 88 is being highly irrational now. I tweaked my contribution to this article as a compromise to his arguments that John Sturges never received a sword from Akira Kurosawa, and that there is no such thing as a "samurai" sword. Now he is accusing me of violating WP:NOR? His negative reaction to my compromise attempt is deplorable.TH1980 (talk) 04:50, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

First off, TH1980, stop pinging me. You're not providing me with any new or relevant information, and given that a lot of what youve written about is obvious AGF-violation (speculating about my personal views on such-and-such topic -- "his arguments that John Sturges never received a sword" -- when such speculation is always wrong) and borderline personal attacks, constantly pinging me in order to force me to read about how you think I'm a "deplorable" person who should be site-banned is bordering on WP:HARASSMENT. Kindly stop it now.

As to the substance: Yes, if you have one, problematic source that gives inaccurate information, it is not acceptable (it is textbook OR) to say "well, I'm sure the author meant to say this instead. You need a separate source and you need to drop the problematic one -- KateWishing already found one, so why are we still talk about this? I don't care if you see it is a "compromise" with me, because I specifically stated on the John Sturges talk page that this would be an unacceptable NOR-violation before you did this. Your "compromise" consisted of doing something I specifically requested you not do. You could not therefore have been compromising with me -- who did you think you were compromising with?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:29, 19 May 2015 (UTC).

TH1980 and KateWishing have found a compromise. One needs no adjective for sword, to introduce one, whatever sources say ('ceremonial', 'samurai' etc) is only to complicate what is a handed down story. That TH1980 found the info or factoid on an unreliable source is in itself neither here nor there, since reliable sources were soon found to validate the claim. There should be no fussing over this. There's a lot of good information on what wiki calls unreliable websites, which if one reads them, provide stuff that must then be verified in sources Misplaced Pages accepts. I do that all the time. When the RS is found, the unreliable source is disposed of (it should never be used in the first place of course). Nishidani (talk) 08:24, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

For the record, I too came across the source KateWishing mentioned above, but decided not to use it since I could not link the pertinent page to the entry.TH1980 (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I also take issue with the accusation that my use of the word "reportedly" qualified my addition as violating WP:NOR. The source I cited was reporting the story about the Sturges sword as fact, ergo my use of the word "reportedly" fits with its definition as "according to report or rumor". Nowhere in WP:NOR does it forbid such word usage.TH1980 (talk) 18:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I see Kate found a better source and edited the section accordingly. I am content with that, but I stand by my use of the word "reportedly."TH1980 (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I need to get a few things clear: (1) I never said using the word "reportedly" qualified as OR; (2) I said using the word "reportedly" or similar when the "report" was a random movie review from 2001 was a violation of WP:INDISCRIMINATE because it would be a single piece of dubiously sourced trivia essentially cited as one author's opinion; (3) I said citing a source that uses the phrase "samurai sword" as a reliable source for the claim, but removing the word "samurai" because "I'm sure the author didn't mean it" violates WP:NOR; (4) Kurosawa did not give a "samurai sword" to Sturges, and any source that implies he did is unacceptable for our purposes; (5) I was perfectly clear several times what I thought was OR and what I thought was INDISCRIMINATE; (6) if TH1980 is misinterpreting my clear statement by accident then we have WP:COMPETENCE issues; (7) if TH1980 is misinterpreting my clear statement on purpose that is WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:56, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

I feel the above statement by Hijiri 88 would qualify as WP:HARASSMENT. I came to this page to add things to it as per Misplaced Pages's guidelines, not get into a pushing contest with members who have partisan or otherwise extreme views about things such as the sword John Sturges received. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be open to all and be run in a democratic manner, not an autocratic one.TH1980 (talk) 02:44, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

@TH1980: Throughout all my interactions with you, you have constantly claimed you are acting in accordance with Misplaced Pages "rules", but you have shown consistently that you don't understand said "rules" and have never once actually quoted a policy or guideline correctly. Misplaced Pages is not a democracy. It is based on reliable sources and not an indiscriminate collection of "facts". You above accuse me of having some kind of "extremist agenda", but it's pretty obvious that you either didn't read or didn't understand any of my posts in this discussion, since I made it quite clear that my personal belief is that Sturges was presented with an ornamental sword, but that this story is almost completely unverifiable and can't be discussed in an accurate manner.

You need to get over this and move on with your life. Edit other articles. English Misplaced Pages is a mess and I don't frankly care if you mess it up a little more. Just stop following me around and complaining about me every chance you get. Please.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:05, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I will not tolerate being pushed around by you. You have one set of rules for you, another set of rules for everyone else here at Misplaced Pages. Either leave me alone or keep getting pushed when you push me back. Do you understand?TH1980 (talk) 04:05, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

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