| Revision as of 16:43, 30 August 2015 editHijiri88 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users37,389 edits →Okay, Curtis, what is it you want?← Previous edit | Revision as of 16:49, 30 August 2015 edit undoCalvin999 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users43,643 edits →Okay, Curtis, what is it you want?Next edit → | ||
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| : You should drop it anyway. What is your problem? You're going to find yourself blocked from editing indefinitely if you persist in continuing to harass editors, edit war on articles, violate the 3RR, and abuse the use of warning templates. I better not see you name on this talk page again, or you will have to face the consequences imposed by senior editors. — ] 16:37, 30 August 2015 (UTC) | : You should drop it anyway. What is your problem? You're going to find yourself blocked from editing indefinitely if you persist in continuing to harass editors, edit war on articles, violate the 3RR, and abuse the use of warning templates. I better not see you name on this talk page again, or you will have to face the consequences imposed by senior editors. — ] 16:37, 30 August 2015 (UTC) | ||
| ::Why should I "drop it anyway"? There is a problem with the article. Threatening me with blocks is not the way to discuss content disputes. And not that it's relevant, but I am by far the most senior editor in this discussion -- I have been editing since 2005. ] (<small>]]</small>) 16:42, 30 August 2015 (UTC) | ::Why should I "drop it anyway"? There is a problem with the article. Threatening me with blocks is not the way to discuss content disputes. And not that it's relevant, but I am by far the most senior editor in this discussion -- I have been editing since 2005. ] (<small>]]</small>) 16:42, 30 August 2015 (UTC) | ||
| ::: Yes, you're right. There is a problem with the article. It's you. — ] 16:49, 30 August 2015 (UTC) | |||
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You posted a few times at Hijiri88's talk page without signing your posts. You should do that in the future. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 16:58, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Welcoming obvious sockpuppets who make dubious edits to continue screwing around with the encyclopedia!?
Curtis, one of these days, posts like this might come back to bite you in the lower back. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 16:49, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- His edits were excellent, and you still haven't presented any evidence that he is a sockpuppet.CurtisNaito (talk) 16:52, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- Only because you have refused to acknowledge all the evidence I have presented. Plus, "his edits were excellent" is only, and I'm using your words now, "your opinion" -- an opinion with which numerous other users have already disagreed. He lied inline about the author of one of his sources; he inserted an internal contradiction into the article, making it cite Ramsey as saying that the relationship between katakana and gugyeol is obscure, but also that katakana was almost certainly based on gugyeol; he referred to Yamanoue no Okura as "a Korean living in Japan". How can any of this be called "excellent"!? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 17:44, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- He didn't lie about the author of the source. He just confused the editor with the author and then immediately corrected himself. Regarding katakana and gugyeol, there was never any contradiction. Nishidani also introduced information on katakana and gugyeol AFTER TH1980 had put Ramsey's version in. There was never any time at which both Nishidani's and TH1980's versions were included simultaneously. Also, there is no doubt that the sources indicated that Yamanoe Okura was "a Korean" and no doubt that they said that he lived in Japan. There should be no problem with calling "a Korean" who lives in Japan as "a Korean living in Japan". His edits were excellent. It was your reverts which were reckless and unnecessary.CurtisNaito (talk) 17:52, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- He didn't correct himself; I was forced to correct him. And how could you read an article so closely as to be able to pick out a tiny detail that runs counter to the main theme of the article, and not notice the name of the author? Nowhere anywhere in that book is there any implication that "linguist Ho-min Sohn" wrote it. Okay, I see now that you are right, there was no internal contradiction in the article at any point; there was only the extratextual contradiction between our gugyeol article that says gugyeol started to be developed in the tenth century, our katakana article which (in accordance with near-universal consensus) says katakana developed in the ninth century, and our Korean influence on Japanese culture article which said that katakana was certainly based on gugyeol! And given that maybe 0.01% of English Misplaced Pages readers have ever heard of gugyeol, and about the same know the history of katakana, what are they expected to do but click the links and learn that our katakana article makes an unsourced claim that katakana originated in the ninth century, but gugyeol originated in the tenth century and the former was derived from the latter? Please explain to me how this is not a contradiction. You said several times on the talk page that it was not. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:45, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- You're just pointing out a problem with the gugyeol article, not a problem with the article Korean influence on Japanese culture. Maybe it is true that the person editing the gugyeol article should have done more detailed research. However, that is still no reason to make attacks on TH1980.
- He didn't correct himself; I was forced to correct him. And how could you read an article so closely as to be able to pick out a tiny detail that runs counter to the main theme of the article, and not notice the name of the author? Nowhere anywhere in that book is there any implication that "linguist Ho-min Sohn" wrote it. Okay, I see now that you are right, there was no internal contradiction in the article at any point; there was only the extratextual contradiction between our gugyeol article that says gugyeol started to be developed in the tenth century, our katakana article which (in accordance with near-universal consensus) says katakana developed in the ninth century, and our Korean influence on Japanese culture article which said that katakana was certainly based on gugyeol! And given that maybe 0.01% of English Misplaced Pages readers have ever heard of gugyeol, and about the same know the history of katakana, what are they expected to do but click the links and learn that our katakana article makes an unsourced claim that katakana originated in the ninth century, but gugyeol originated in the tenth century and the former was derived from the latter? Please explain to me how this is not a contradiction. You said several times on the talk page that it was not. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:45, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- He didn't lie about the author of the source. He just confused the editor with the author and then immediately corrected himself. Regarding katakana and gugyeol, there was never any contradiction. Nishidani also introduced information on katakana and gugyeol AFTER TH1980 had put Ramsey's version in. There was never any time at which both Nishidani's and TH1980's versions were included simultaneously. Also, there is no doubt that the sources indicated that Yamanoe Okura was "a Korean" and no doubt that they said that he lived in Japan. There should be no problem with calling "a Korean" who lives in Japan as "a Korean living in Japan". His edits were excellent. It was your reverts which were reckless and unnecessary.CurtisNaito (talk) 17:52, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- Only because you have refused to acknowledge all the evidence I have presented. Plus, "his edits were excellent" is only, and I'm using your words now, "your opinion" -- an opinion with which numerous other users have already disagreed. He lied inline about the author of one of his sources; he inserted an internal contradiction into the article, making it cite Ramsey as saying that the relationship between katakana and gugyeol is obscure, but also that katakana was almost certainly based on gugyeol; he referred to Yamanoue no Okura as "a Korean living in Japan". How can any of this be called "excellent"!? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 17:44, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- Scholars do not know for certain when gugyeol was developed. However, the theory that katakana was derived from gugyeol is widespread among both Korean and Japanese scholars. That information is well-cited in the article Korean influence on Japanese culture and hopefully it will also be well-cited one day in the article on gugyeol. What we can say for the time being is that good edits were made to the article Korean influence on Japanese culture, hopefully to be followed by more good edits to both that article and the article on gugyeol.
- Also, I think you should stop calling TH1980 a sockpuppet, because it's against Misplaced Pages protocol to make such accusations without evidence.CurtisNaito (talk) 04:59, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- You're just pointing out a problem with the gugyeol article, not a problem with the article Korean influence on Japanese culture. It's not a problem with the gugyeol article, it's a problem with the Korean influence article. As Nishidani already pointed out, Ramsey stated elsewhere, much more clearly, that the relationship is complicated, in that gugyeol developed later than katakana (something not contradicted by our gugyeol article) but that the similarities indicate that perhaps they had a common ancestor in some earlier (Korean) script. That is not the same as saying katakana was based on gugyeol. When I pointed out that the vague source was being cherry-picked because, being mostly about Japanese influence on the modern Korean language, it didn't actually discuss the point in question in any detail, it could be expanded to say something that the author never meant it to say, I was not wrong. The gugyeol article cites two Korean encyclopedia articles, and given its lack of hard Gregorian calendar dates (instead naming the Goryeo dynasty) I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a direct translation of them -- i.e., it is a straight copy-paste job of a reliable print encyclopedia. That might be a copyright issue in itself, but it also means the article is more reliable than a Wikipedian's dubious reading of another, less specialized tertiary source like the Ramsey article.
- Scholars do not know for certain when gugyeol was developed. However, the theory that katakana was derived from gugyeol is widespread among both Korean and Japanese scholars. That information is well-cited in the article Korean influence on Japanese culture and hopefully it will also be well-cited one day in the article on gugyeol. Sources, please? Which scholars "do not know for certain when gugyeol was developed"? Among which Japanese scholars is the theory that katakana was derived from gugyeol "widespread"? The gugyeol article's citation style (including a bibliography that would probably verify 80-90% of its content but no inline citations) is problematic, but at least it has one -- you are just pulling facts out of your lower back and expecting me to buy them.
- Also, I think you should stop calling TH1980 a sockpuppet, because it's against Misplaced Pages protocol to make such accusations without evidence. I have evidence he is a sockpuppet, and I have presented it to you numerous times. He showed up suddenly on an article he had never edited before, and reintroduced text that had been removed months earlier, during a period when under his present account he was not actively editing Misplaced Pages at all, let alone that particular article. Jagello, KoreanSentry and TH1980 are all very obviously either sockpuppets of, or engaged in off-wiki collusion with, the editors who had originally introduced this text years ago. That this area is rife with sock-/meat-puppetry is not something I invented: User:Canterbury Tail broached the subject over a year ago, and more recently User:SamuelDay1 User:Hipocrite and User:Eurodyne agreed that the behaviour on this particular article since the AFD is suspicious -- were they also in violation of "Misplaced Pages protocol"?
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:20, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- If you had evidence, then TH1980 would have been banned. He will not be banned, however, because you have no evidence. Just because someone makes reliably sourced, accurate, and relevant edits to the article Korean influence on Japanese culture, as TH1980 did, does not somehow make them a sockpuppet. Let's be clear, you have no evidence whatsoever to support your completely baseless accusations against him.
- Also, I think you should stop calling TH1980 a sockpuppet, because it's against Misplaced Pages protocol to make such accusations without evidence.CurtisNaito (talk) 04:59, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- According to the article Korean influence on Japanese culture, "many in Japan as well as Korea believe that the beginnings of katakana and the orthographic principles they represent, derive at least in part from earlier practices on the Korean peninsular." And of course, Ramsey is already on record as arguing that this connection "seems certain". All you are really doing here is quibbling with the scholarly viewpoint. TH1980, by contrast, made edits in accordance with the scholarly viewpoint. His edits were very solid and ought to be praised.CurtisNaito (talk) 05:31, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Curtis grow the hell up and learn to listen. Just because someone makes reliably sourced, accurate, and relevant edits to an article, does not somehow make them a sockpuppet, this is true. But when someone makes the same edits that other users made months or years earlier, that had been reverted months before that user under his/her current account had ever shown any interest in the article, does provide very valid cause for suspicion of sockpuppetry. I do not "have no evidence whatsoever to support my completely baseless accusations". I have a large enough body of evidence to make me and the vast majority of other good-faith Wikipedians highly suspicious of either misuse of multiple accounts or inappropriate off-wiki collusion. By the way -- "no evidence whatsoever for completely baseless accusations"? Redundant much? Your argument that "if I had evidence, then TH1980 would have been banned" is a red herring -- the only way to get an account blocked for sockpuppetry is to open an SPI or ANI thread on them: for an SPI, I would need to know the identity of the sockmaster/main account (something I have never claimed to know, and which would be very difficult to establish under the circumstances); for an ANI thread, the account would need to have been engaging in a longer-term pattern of disruptive behaviour than has taken place already (the fact that I've never opened an ANI thread on you yet should be evidence of my high degree of tolerance for disruptive behaviour); I did this with Jagello and KoreanSentry in February, but because both of them stopped editing the thread got archived with no result -- the next time one of those accounts edits suspiciously it will probably result in them getting blocked as probable sockpuppets. Jagello got one chance back in October before the first ANI thread was opened, and I will grant TH1980 the same courtesy; next time TH1980 does something sock-ish I will report him on ANI, everyone else who comments will say "Yeah, it does look super-suspicious -- TH1980, what other accounts have you been using? Who told you off-wiki to edit that page?" like they did last time. If TH1980 doesn't respond and goes quiet for another few months, the thread will again get archived with no result; then on TH1980's third strike he will most likely be blocked.
- Where in the quote you provide is gugyeol even mentioned!? You seriously need to stop editing Misplaced Pages if you genuinely think that quote supports what you were claiming above. Ramsey is on record as saying the modern Korean language shows strong Japanese influence; the article you are misquoting is about Japanese influence on Korean culture; you are cherry-picking one truncated statement near the start of the article and misrepresenting it as putting him "on the record" that "katakana was derived from gugyeol".
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:01, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, you've accused a lot of people of sockpuppetry relating to this article, but it's really no surprise that you haven't managed to ban any of them because you don't bother to present any actual evidence. You certainly have no specific evidence against TH1980. The material TH1980 was adding to the article was original. The citations and the wording of the text were completely different from what had been in the article before. This information was clearly worth including. If that's all the "evidence" you have then, as I said, you need to stop calling him a sockpuppet. That is NOT even remotely sufficient reason to make personal attacks on other users. What Ramsey is on record as saying is that the Japanese language shows strong Korean influence, including the possible or likely influence on gugyeol on katakana. The relevant portions of the text have been quoted to you many times so it makes no sense that you keep on denying the quotes that are placed directly in front of you.CurtisNaito (talk) 07:09, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- you've accused a lot of people of sockpuppetry relating to this article, but it's really no surprise that you haven't managed to ban any of them because you don't bother to present any actual evidence Please stop throwing around the word "ban". The word is "block". Also, that's a pretty outrageous allegation, that I have presented no actual evidence. Care to elaborate? The folks over on ANI seemed pretty convinced that my evidence was adequate...
- The material TH1980 was adding to the article was original. Again -- pretty extraordinary claim. Care to elaborate? Maybe provide some evidence? It looked to me like he was restoring the same anachronistic material that had been removed previously, in at least one case using almost the exact same wording.
- This information was clearly worth including. Your opinion, with no bearing whatsoever on whether sockpuppetry has taken place. Again, the reason I posted here was that you seem to be encouraging sockpuppetry solely because you agree with the sockpuppets' POV in this case. This is pretty outrageous behaviour.
- If that's all the "evidence" you have then, as I said, you need to stop calling him a sockpuppet. Again, it's your opinion, and an opinion with apparently the majority of other Wikipedians disagree.
- That is NOT even remotely sufficient reason to make personal attacks on other users. Again, it's not a personal attack to speculate based on extremely suspicious sockpuppet-like behaviour that an account is a sockpuppet. The fact that TH1980 has not even attempted to deny this is yet more evidence. Your bad-faith accusations of personal attacks, on the other hand, veer very close to NPA-violations themselves.
- What Ramsey is on record as saying is that the Japanese language shows strong Korean influence Sources, please? The book currently cited in the article is about the Korean language, not the Japanese language, and the article TH1980 was misquoting is all about the heavy Japanese influence on the modern Korean language -- if you are too stupid to understand that ... well ...
- including the possible or likely influence on gugyeol on katakana. Wait ... what!? "likely influence on gugyeol on katakana"? Do you mean "likely influence of gugyeol on katakana"? Again, please cite a source that says this. The currently-cited Lee/Ramsey source appears to say that katakana (which dates to the 800s) and gugyeol (which dates to the 900s) appear to be related and may share a common (Korean) ancestor, but that the relationship is obscure. That's not the same as what you are claiming.
- The relevant portions of the text have been quoted to you many times so it makes no sense that you keep on denying the quotes that are placed directly in front of you. I don't see any place where the relevant portions of the text have been quoted. I went and tracked down the text on GBooks, and fortunately the whole essay was available for me to read for free. I read it. It was about the Japanese influence on the Korean language, with a single, obscure reference to gugyeol and katakana in the introduction. You on the other hand do not appear to have read it.
- AND HOW DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SOCKPUPPETRY ISSUE!?!
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:59, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Continuing to accuse TH1980 of sockpuppetry without evidence is clearly a personal attack on him and clearly a violation of Misplaced Pages protocol. The material TH1980 was adding to the article was not even close to the previous version of the article. Both the citations and the text were completely new. No one except you has ever accused TH1980 of sockpuppetry, and unsurprisingly no admin has been convinced enough of these absurd allegations to actually issue a ban.
- Well, you've accused a lot of people of sockpuppetry relating to this article, but it's really no surprise that you haven't managed to ban any of them because you don't bother to present any actual evidence. You certainly have no specific evidence against TH1980. The material TH1980 was adding to the article was original. The citations and the wording of the text were completely different from what had been in the article before. This information was clearly worth including. If that's all the "evidence" you have then, as I said, you need to stop calling him a sockpuppet. That is NOT even remotely sufficient reason to make personal attacks on other users. What Ramsey is on record as saying is that the Japanese language shows strong Korean influence, including the possible or likely influence on gugyeol on katakana. The relevant portions of the text have been quoted to you many times so it makes no sense that you keep on denying the quotes that are placed directly in front of you.CurtisNaito (talk) 07:09, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- At any rate, here once again is the relevant quote from Ramsey. "It also seems certain that the simplified Chinese characters known as Kugyol, which were used by Koreans to annotate texts, influenced the development of the katakana writing system in Japan." My view here is simply that the opinions of leading scholars outweigh the opinions of Hijiri. TH1980 is not sockpuppet, and since he was just quoting the opinion of leading scholars you can't say he had a problematic bias. Like I said, I think it's better to rely on scholarly opinion, as cited by TH1980, then to simply go with Hijiri's own personal opinion that has no sources to speak of to back it up.CurtisNaito (talk) 08:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- What do you mean by "here once again"!? I searched the talk page and that quote appears nowhere. It looks like I had to go and hunt down the reference, and you are now taking credit for it and looking down your nose at me for not reading the quote that was never presented to me. Why would I need to read it out of context on the talk page, anyway? I found it on GBooks before you even joined the discussion.
- As for the sockpuppet issue: it is not a violation of policy ("protocol", as you keep somewhat bizarrely calling it as though that was the standard lingo) to point out that another user is engaged in highly suspicious behaviour typical of a sockpuppet, and given that other users have explicitly supported me on this point, and TH1980 has seen fit to dodge the question every time, you are way out of line telling me what is and isn't appropriate.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:02, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, if you already knew what the book said then I shouldn't have had to quote it for you. However, the more important issue is that repeatedly calling another user in good standing a sockpuppet, based on the "suspicious" behavior of constructively editing an article in a way you personally disagree with, is clearly inappropriate behavior.CurtisNaito (talk) 13:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Curtis, would you kindly refrain from making spurious accusations like that I accuse other users of being sockpuppets just because I disagree with them? When have I ever done that? If I did that, why have I never accused you of being a sockpuppet? You and I have almost never agreed on anything, and on top of that you sometimes come across as being someone's "bad hand", the way you show up suddenly and revert me in articles and entire areas you have never shown any interest in. But I have never accused you of being a sockpuppet because (1) you and I disagreeing is entirely irrelevant to the question of sockpuppetry, which even if you can't understand I most certainly do, and (2) on a balanced weighing of the evidence there is no rational reason for believing you to be a sockpuppet. I accuse accounts of being sockpuppets only when the balance of evidence indicates that they are sockpuppets, like when they lay dormant for months on end and then show up suddenly and restore material/text that had been removed a long time ago from an article they had never edited before, in a topic area that a large number of other editors have already pointed out is rife with sock-/meat-puppetry and has been for years.
- You have no reason whatsoever to believe that accuse other users of being sockpuppets because they make edits with which I disagree, and given my history with other users making completely bogus/ignorant-of-WP:QUACK-behaviour, bad-faith accusations of me being wrong about sockpuppets (they were always very wrong, I might point out) you can see why I might find your accusations disturbing.
- As for TH1980's edits being "constructive" -- I'll just point out that of five or six (User:Sturmgewehr88 didn't really express an opinion on TH1980's edits, but...) other parties who have commented on his "Korean influence" edits, you are the only one who thought they were "constructive". So stop posting your personal opinion and pretending like it is a factual datum off of which to base accusations against other users.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:47, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- The material he was adding was original and contained original citations. The sources were clearly reliable and the text he was adding matched the sources. Accusing another user of sockpuppetry without evidence is just a personal attack and is very inappropriate behavior. When you disagree with someone's edits you should accept it as a legitimate content dispute and not make it into an excuse to defame them. I'm asking you to abide by basic civility and assume good faith.CurtisNaito (talk) 11:00, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- Curtis, when you say, essentially "He couldn't possibly be a sockpuppet because his edits were well-sourced and excellent", and then turn around and accuse me (yet again) of defaming people with sockpuppetry claims just because I disagree with their edits, you do know you are throwing stones in a glass house, right? Whether or not you like his edits is just as irrelevant to the question of whether he is a sockpuppet as whether or not I dislike them. You have said in this thread now at least a half dozen times "I like his edits, therefore he couldn't be a sockpuppet", which (given the very likelihood that he is a sockpuppet) is just as unacceptable as "I don't like his edits, therefore he must be a sockpuppet". And you are still failing to recognize that no one has actually said "I don't like his edits, therefore he must be a sockpuppet". If you continue to hurl such baseless and offensive accusations against me, it come back and bite you in the lower back. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- If an active user is a sockpuppet, you should deal with it through administrative action. Otherwise continuing to accuse them again and again is just a personal attack. You obviously didn't agree with the material being added, but apart from that you provided no reason to believe that these edits were somehow evidence of sockpuppetry. In particular, it was very inappropriate of you to make such false accusations against a fellow Misplaced Pages user right in your edit summaries. You never proved that TH1980 was a sockpuppet, and you've never managed to convince the admins that any of the other users editing the article are sockpuppets either. Making these spurious accusations is hardly constructive. I'm telling you that you aren't assuming good faith or acting civilly, and issuing threats doesn't help your case here.CurtisNaito (talk) 11:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not continuing to accuse them. I'm keeping an eye on them for any more suspicious behaviour. If I am given a reason to seek a block (again, the problem with sleepers is that they go dead for months on end, making it difficult to make an ANI case against them while they are asleep) I will do so. Right now I am not accusing anyone of anything except you of making somewhat offensive claims about me and the other users who disagree with you. And I don't need to convince the admins that the other users who edited the article are sockpuppets: they already know. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- I guess you're already convinced, but you are alone there. At any rate, as long as you are no longer accusing TH1980 of sockpuppetry then you are no longer violating Misplaced Pages policy.CurtisNaito (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Hijiri 88 What is going on here? You are acting so irrational, you are crashing through this page like a runaway train. I am not anyone's "sockpuppet." Give it a rest already.TH1980 (talk) 22:54, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- I guess you're already convinced, but you are alone there. At any rate, as long as you are no longer accusing TH1980 of sockpuppetry then you are no longer violating Misplaced Pages policy.CurtisNaito (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not continuing to accuse them. I'm keeping an eye on them for any more suspicious behaviour. If I am given a reason to seek a block (again, the problem with sleepers is that they go dead for months on end, making it difficult to make an ANI case against them while they are asleep) I will do so. Right now I am not accusing anyone of anything except you of making somewhat offensive claims about me and the other users who disagree with you. And I don't need to convince the admins that the other users who edited the article are sockpuppets: they already know. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- If an active user is a sockpuppet, you should deal with it through administrative action. Otherwise continuing to accuse them again and again is just a personal attack. You obviously didn't agree with the material being added, but apart from that you provided no reason to believe that these edits were somehow evidence of sockpuppetry. In particular, it was very inappropriate of you to make such false accusations against a fellow Misplaced Pages user right in your edit summaries. You never proved that TH1980 was a sockpuppet, and you've never managed to convince the admins that any of the other users editing the article are sockpuppets either. Making these spurious accusations is hardly constructive. I'm telling you that you aren't assuming good faith or acting civilly, and issuing threats doesn't help your case here.CurtisNaito (talk) 11:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- Curtis, when you say, essentially "He couldn't possibly be a sockpuppet because his edits were well-sourced and excellent", and then turn around and accuse me (yet again) of defaming people with sockpuppetry claims just because I disagree with their edits, you do know you are throwing stones in a glass house, right? Whether or not you like his edits is just as irrelevant to the question of whether he is a sockpuppet as whether or not I dislike them. You have said in this thread now at least a half dozen times "I like his edits, therefore he couldn't be a sockpuppet", which (given the very likelihood that he is a sockpuppet) is just as unacceptable as "I don't like his edits, therefore he must be a sockpuppet". And you are still failing to recognize that no one has actually said "I don't like his edits, therefore he must be a sockpuppet". If you continue to hurl such baseless and offensive accusations against me, it come back and bite you in the lower back. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- The material he was adding was original and contained original citations. The sources were clearly reliable and the text he was adding matched the sources. Accusing another user of sockpuppetry without evidence is just a personal attack and is very inappropriate behavior. When you disagree with someone's edits you should accept it as a legitimate content dispute and not make it into an excuse to defame them. I'm asking you to abide by basic civility and assume good faith.CurtisNaito (talk) 11:00, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, if you already knew what the book said then I shouldn't have had to quote it for you. However, the more important issue is that repeatedly calling another user in good standing a sockpuppet, based on the "suspicious" behavior of constructively editing an article in a way you personally disagree with, is clearly inappropriate behavior.CurtisNaito (talk) 13:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- At any rate, here once again is the relevant quote from Ramsey. "It also seems certain that the simplified Chinese characters known as Kugyol, which were used by Koreans to annotate texts, influenced the development of the katakana writing system in Japan." My view here is simply that the opinions of leading scholars outweigh the opinions of Hijiri. TH1980 is not sockpuppet, and since he was just quoting the opinion of leading scholars you can't say he had a problematic bias. Like I said, I think it's better to rely on scholarly opinion, as cited by TH1980, then to simply go with Hijiri's own personal opinion that has no sources to speak of to back it up.CurtisNaito (talk) 08:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Iwane Matsui
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Your GA nomination of Ways That Are Dark
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Iwane Matsui - The Class-A war criminal
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. STSC (talk) 19:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Japan Echo
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Ganser
To quote review: "The result was no consensus. Discussion about the potential to convert the article to focus upon the subject's book can be discussed further on the article's talk page, if desired. NORTH AMERICA1000 04:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)"
The clear implication, and simple reading of the discussion leads to the conclusion that this should be merged. In fact, six months ago the merger was proposed. No one has disagreed. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:39, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
- The merger is a de-facto deletion. Four votes were against deletion and only two votes in favor. You should not be implementing a proposal which is opposed by double the number of people who support it.CurtisNaito (talk) 17:41, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
- Merger isn't deletion and we don't just count vote numbers. Absent a solid reason to merge this should be completed. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:57, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
- The votes against deletion gave very persuasive reasons. You are unilaterally merging the article in spite of clear consensus against.CurtisNaito (talk) 17:59, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
- Merger isn't deletion and we don't just count vote numbers. Absent a solid reason to merge this should be completed. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:57, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Ralph Townsend
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Disambiguation link notification for August 15
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Your GA nomination of History of Japan
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Ralph Townsend has been nominated for Did You Know
 | Hello, CurtisNaito. Ralph Townsend, an article you either created or significantly contributed to, has been nominated to appear on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as part of Did you know . You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 18:47, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
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Your GA nomination of History of Japan
The article History of Japan you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:History of Japan for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Calvin999 -- Calvin999 (talk) 18:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Barnstar for You!
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The Good Article Barnstar | |
| For your contributions to bring History of Japan to Good Article status. Thanks, and keep up the good work! — Calvin999 19:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC) |
Your GA nomination of History of Japan
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Talkback
Message added 17:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
I've done everything. — Calvin999 17:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- and Talk:Christmas Time Is in the Air Again/GA1 too. Thank you. — Calvin999 17:11, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I've made further corrections. — Calvin999 17:32, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Barnstar for You!
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The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | |
| Thank you for the reviews :). — Calvin999 18:35, 27 August 2015 (UTC) |
Okay, Curtis, what is it you want?
What do I have to do for you to get Calvin999 to leave me alone? Do you want me to drop my concerns about the History of Japan article? Will you tell him to stop it if I do that for you? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 16:33, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
- You should drop it anyway. What is your problem? You're going to find yourself blocked from editing indefinitely if you persist in continuing to harass editors, edit war on articles, violate the 3RR, and abuse the use of warning templates. I better not see you name on this talk page again, or you will have to face the consequences imposed by senior editors. — Calvin999 16:37, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
- Why should I "drop it anyway"? There is a problem with the article. Threatening me with blocks is not the way to discuss content disputes. And not that it's relevant, but I am by far the most senior editor in this discussion -- I have been editing since 2005. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 16:42, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, you're right. There is a problem with the article. It's you. — Calvin999 16:49, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
- Why should I "drop it anyway"? There is a problem with the article. Threatening me with blocks is not the way to discuss content disputes. And not that it's relevant, but I am by far the most senior editor in this discussion -- I have been editing since 2005. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 16:42, 30 August 2015 (UTC)