| Revision as of 20:45, 26 September 2015 editAldezD (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users18,816 edits add comment← Previous edit | Revision as of 23:48, 26 September 2015 edit undoPAustin4thApril1980 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users19,807 edits [User:Daniel Case said on my talk page that this was not WP:CANVASSNext edit → | ||
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| ::::Maybe your frustration leads to his behaviour (or alters the way you perceive his behaviour). ] once said talking about things makes them happen, and she seems to be the root of this problem. Rather than apologize to me, who you haven't wronged, maybe try apologizing to and forgiving your enemy instead. Who better could use it? Might help settle the disruptions. Or maybe I'm a delusional hippie. ] ] 07:30, ], ] (UTC) | ::::Maybe your frustration leads to his behaviour (or alters the way you perceive his behaviour). ] once said talking about things makes them happen, and she seems to be the root of this problem. Rather than apologize to me, who you haven't wronged, maybe try apologizing to and forgiving your enemy instead. Who better could use it? Might help settle the disruptions. Or maybe I'm a delusional hippie. ] ] 07:30, ], ] (UTC) | ||
| *'''Keep''' Nomination claims that subject fails ]. There are sufficient ] to establish that the subject passes ]. This is not an example of ] - this is not a news report.--] (]) 20:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC) | *'''Keep''' Nomination claims that subject fails ]. There are sufficient ] to establish that the subject passes ]. This is not an example of ] - this is not a news report.--] (]) 20:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Note to closing admin''': Article creator ]ED for AFD: , , , , , . ] (]) | |||
Revision as of 23:48, 26 September 2015
Little Miss Nobody (American murder victim)
- Little Miss Nobody (American murder victim) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Torso found in 1960 in state of advanced decomposition and unable to be identified. No WP:SIGCOV in reliable sources beyond initial 1960 news article. Google search and Google news search return no relevant links.
Other Unidentified Persons Database reference contains no details that meet WP:GNG. Third linked ref is independent, non-law enforcement volunteer site which does not meet WP:RS.
Victim was toddler or young child when murdered and at time of murder was not notable for anything else. WP:NOTNEWS. AldezD (talk) 23:42, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - NOTNEWS does not apply here. Clearly notable. Per WP:GNG and WP:CRIME. Better sourcing could be an option though. --BabbaQ (talk) 00:06, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: This nomination is spiteful and frivolous. This article was patrolled when it was created and found to be acceptable for Misplaced Pages. AldezD has done some good work on the wiki but at times he gives the impression of being on a personal crusade, imposing his views. I would hesitate to call him a troll but... Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 00:12, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Note: There’s a WP:ANI thread relevant to this comment. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 13:48, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
- Keep I recently uncovered several more resources giving information for the victim and planned to update it when I got the chance. I feel the case meets sourcing requirements as the presence of primary and secondary currently are used in the article and more will soon be added.The Doe Network does have law enforcement background and even has members that are liaisons/officers of law enforcement facilities. This AFD seems rushed, in my opinion. No need to get too carried away. --GouramiWatcher 00:23, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Reformat to event article She wasn't even an entire corpse,
just a torse. At least as far as anyone here knows.Of course, she used to be a person, but nothing she did during that time was worth a mention, let alone significant coverage. Jane Doe's body parts turn up all the time, and while I appreciate the clever nickname separating her from the rest, that nickname doesn't help her notability case a bit. See nobody for details. The hubbub got some attention, but she did essentially nothing. Not a real biography. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:29, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- When her identity becomes known, we can rename it "Murder of ...", as we did with Caledonia Jane Doe, and a couple of other recently-identified UIDs. Daniel Case (talk) 00:54, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- In a perfect world, we'd wait to see if she was murdered, too. We don't even know the cause of death, let alone the manner. "Little Miss Nobody case" would cover everything. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:16, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Yes LMN buried herself in that creek bed. ("...the bullet, like drove itself into my gut...") Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 01:22, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Burying a body isn't killing a person (unlawfully or otherwise). Maybe she ate some bad tuna, her parents freaked out because social workers warned them about that tuna, they swept her under the rug and told the state she went to live on a farm with her grandparents. Or something entirely different, but still not murder. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:27, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Since I just added more information from the resources I had saved previously (more than doubling the amount prior to the AFD), the cause of the girl's death was never determined. However, authorities expressed suspicions of foul play and some of the sources stated it was murder. Notably, Bella Bond was found in a garbage bag and remained unidentified until last week. Her death cause was never determined but officials went ahead and stated it was homicide, as well as the allegations made by Bella's mother that her boyfriend has punched the girl until she died.--GouramiWatcher 01:45, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Not sure where you're going with the Bella Bond thing, but yeah, it's definitely suspicious. People suspected foul play in the Salish Sea human foot discoveries, too. It's human nature to not think of bad fish eating us. We blame our neighbours instead. But suspicion doesn't make something real enough for an article title. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:01, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Since I just added more information from the resources I had saved previously (more than doubling the amount prior to the AFD), the cause of the girl's death was never determined. However, authorities expressed suspicions of foul play and some of the sources stated it was murder. Notably, Bella Bond was found in a garbage bag and remained unidentified until last week. Her death cause was never determined but officials went ahead and stated it was homicide, as well as the allegations made by Bella's mother that her boyfriend has punched the girl until she died.--GouramiWatcher 01:45, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Burying a body isn't killing a person (unlawfully or otherwise). Maybe she ate some bad tuna, her parents freaked out because social workers warned them about that tuna, they swept her under the rug and told the state she went to live on a farm with her grandparents. Or something entirely different, but still not murder. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:27, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Yes LMN buried herself in that creek bed. ("...the bullet, like drove itself into my gut...") Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 01:22, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- In a perfect world, we'd wait to see if she was murdered, too. We don't even know the cause of death, let alone the manner. "Little Miss Nobody case" would cover everything. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:16, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- When her identity becomes known, we can rename it "Murder of ...", as we did with Caledonia Jane Doe, and a couple of other recently-identified UIDs. Daniel Case (talk) 00:54, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Where exactly is it stated that only the torso of the victim was found? As far as I've read, it was determined that the child had teeth that were well-cared for and that she had painted her toenails. NAMUS profile states "all parts recovered." --GouramiWatcher 00:33, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- I heard it from the nominator, just sort of assumed it was true. My bad. Thanks. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:43, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- His story about SIGCOV seems to check out, though. A local (partial) skeleton. Two steps below Mountain Meadow Massacre remains and four below Romanov cremains. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:02, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Most people today outside Philadelphia wouldn't recognise the Boy in the Box but he still gets an article. People publicised LMN throughout the freaking USA in 1960 trying to give her her name back. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 01:07, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Trying and failing, evidently. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:10, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Most people today outside Philadelphia wouldn't recognise the Boy in the Box but he still gets an article. People publicised LMN throughout the freaking USA in 1960 trying to give her her name back. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 01:07, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Comment So not only is this AFD spiteful and frivolous, the nominator didn't even get the facts right. What a Mickey Mouse operation he is. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 00:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Paul, as much as I know how frustrating it is to get an article AFD'ed (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lyle Stevik (3rd nomination) is a good example) it's best to stay away from comments like this. It could only make the situation worse.--GouramiWatcher 00:49, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry. I'm just increasingly frustrated with AldezD. Forgive me. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 00:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Paul, as much as I know how frustrating it is to get an article AFD'ed (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lyle Stevik (3rd nomination) is a good example) it's best to stay away from comments like this. It could only make the situation worse.--GouramiWatcher 00:49, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Keep, any unidentified-decedent case that makes national news, whenver, is inherently notable IMO. Daniel Case (talk) 00:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Does it count as "making national news" if several papers in various American places run the same AP story? That's all I'm seeing (white shorts, checkered blouse, leather sandals). Could be missing something big, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:10, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- To answer your question first, the copycat/herd mentality nature of corporate media is used quite often to justify recentist piffle, even when the end result amounts to a WP:BLP1E violation. I have no real opinion on the article, but rather wanted to say something about this topic in general. I came across Misplaced Pages's coverage of unidentified murder victims through work on Robert Hansen. The tone conferred through this coverage suggests that Misplaced Pages is being used as a venue for advocacy on the issue. For that reason alone, I would be suspicious of anything I see on here in this topic area. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 02:11, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Does it count as "making national news" if several papers in various American places run the same AP story? That's all I'm seeing (white shorts, checkered blouse, leather sandals). Could be missing something big, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:10, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Weak keep. The Huffington Post still lists her in 2015 as one of "9 Murder Victims Whose Names Remain a Mystery". Clarityfiend (talk) 09:03, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Keep The deletion proposal is based strictly on the claim of non-notability. However, the notability criteria are all satisfied: The entry's subject has been given significant coverage by reliable, secondary sources, which are independent of the subject. This Misplaced Pages entry easily passes the N-test. -The Gnome (talk) 10:11, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arizona-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- Keep as a widely covered instance of unidentified victim/unsolved murder that passes WP:GNG.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:51, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability." Is it still widely covered when we count all the AP articles as one?
- Anyway, according to this other AP story, another "Little Miss Nobody" was buried right beside this one, thirty years later. We don't have Francine Meegan, but she could make for a third paragraph in the Burial section here. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:44, September 25, 2015 (UTC)
- Comment spreading via the Associated Press is the pre-Internet equiv of "Baby Doe"'s case spreading like wildfire in the Internet Age. I'm old enough to remember when afternoon newspapers still had some life in them and i know it's hard for some editors to remember what things were like before they changed with the Internet Age. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 04:36, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
- The newswires are still alive and well in this modern day. Still count as one source. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:30, September 25, 2015 (UTC)
- Comment I've just realised that the last edit to the Little Miss Nobody article or talk page before AldezD called this AFD was mine, over a month after the last edit to the article. Either it's a big coincidence or AldezD is stalking my edits, checking what contributions i am making. That alone, if true, should get him reprimanded. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 04:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
- Nothing wrong with checking someone's edit history. It's all as public as the edits are. Hounding is another story. I just creeped your contributions and notice you said the same thing at the administrator's noticeboard, except you also want this AfD thrown out for this. That gameplan is pretty much doomed; if you want the article kept, just wait. I'm only objecting to the lack of notability for the record. I don't expect it to change the outcome. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:57, September 26, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm just increasing frustrated with his behaviour. I'm sorry. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 07:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe your frustration leads to his behaviour (or alters the way you perceive his behaviour). Heather O'Rourke once said talking about things makes them happen, and she seems to be the root of this problem. Rather than apologize to me, who you haven't wronged, maybe try apologizing to and forgiving your enemy instead. Who better could use it? Might help settle the disruptions. Or maybe I'm a delusional hippie. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:30, September 26, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm just increasing frustrated with his behaviour. I'm sorry. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 07:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
- Nothing wrong with checking someone's edit history. It's all as public as the edits are. Hounding is another story. I just creeped your contributions and notice you said the same thing at the administrator's noticeboard, except you also want this AfD thrown out for this. That gameplan is pretty much doomed; if you want the article kept, just wait. I'm only objecting to the lack of notability for the record. I don't expect it to change the outcome. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:57, September 26, 2015 (UTC)
- Keep Nomination claims that subject fails WP:GNG. There are sufficient WP:RS to establish that the subject passes WP:GNG. This is not an example of WP:NOTNEWS - this is not a news report.--Jersey92 (talk) 20:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)