Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 23:27, 20 December 2015

This is an archive of past discussions on Misplaced Pages:Non-free content. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Regarding this.

As that commenter said, should we keep large versions of non-free vector images since they can be scaled to any size? Hop on Bananas (talk) 01:17, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

• All files should satisfy WP:NFCC#3b. Note that the default display size is just an arbitrary number of little importance, so the 'size' of an SVG file needs to be determined in some other way. --Stefan2 (talk) 01:27, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
• A user removed the {{non-free reduce}} tag (which I originally added) from File:Green Party logo.svg for obvious reasons. It seems that there are several users who agree that large non-free SVGs do not need to be reduced since they can be reduced or expanded to any size, including an acceptable non-free size. Are they right or not? Hop on Bananas (talk) 12:45, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
• Actually, that was the same user who originally made the comment on the file's talk page. But still, are they right? Hop on Bananas (talk) 12:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

• • It has been previously established that if we can legally acquire the logo vector directly from the company that owns the logo (off their website, off a PDF document they have , etc.), that that is an acceptable non-free, and because vectors are resolution-less , it is difficult to apply 3b to them. What we don't allow is the recreation as a vector of a non-free logo (in other words, no user-created non-free SVGs are allowed), and of course, if the only version available are raster images, these have to meet #3b. --MASEM (t) 15:47, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
    • Now, I've always assumed that the ban on user generated SVG versions is because they have too many copyrights attached to them, making them violations of the WP:FREER/NFCC#1 principle ("When using non-free media, the ones with the least restrictive copyright terms should be preferred").Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:52, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
      • There is that too, though arguably if the user recreates the non-free logo and then says "my SVG code is CC-BY", that's an "equivalent" free-ness as if the image is directly provided by the company that owns the logo (which covers both the graphical representation and the SVG for the most part). The main reason to avoid user-recreated non-frees is that they may not always be accurate at the small detail level, which can mis-represent the entity. It avoids derivative work issues related to that. --MASEM (t) 16:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

While I didn't know why we didn't allow user-created SVG non-free logos before reading those comments, this discussion is about WP:NFCC#3. Hop on Bananas (talk) 22:17, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

• Is there a way to formulate a "minimal usage" standard for vectorized images? For regular images low size and low resolution are the definition of "minimal usage", but if vectors don't play by the same rule we need a vector-appropriate standard.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:24, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk Page / Meetup Page Usage

For the NYC Wikimedia chapter as follow up to events and as part of the event page clean vector logos from the partner organizations should be able to be used. The benefits are clear: Using the partner logos is professional, gives the pages graphic elements (which are sorely lacking), and if the logos are coming from the Commons, cross-usage should be encouraged. Specifically, the policy should not have to apply to logos of GLAM partner institutions shown on Misplaced Pages-space meetup pages and talk pages for new editors. This policy needs to be re-considered. BrillLyle (talk) 18:12, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

• To clarify; BrillLyle is wanting to use File:Queens Library.svg on Misplaced Pages:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd/Press. For an example of intended usage, see this. I've explained that such usage violates WP:NFCC #9 and can not be allowed, and further that if he wants to use the logo in this manner he needs to seek an exemption from the policy here at this talk page. Thus, why it's come here. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
  • The significant point here is that GLAM partner organizations desire to be identified by their logos, as the Misplaced Pages namespace is de facto also sometimes an event-organizing platform. While logos should not be used gratuitously in non-article space, I can only think it is appropriate to show the logo of a partner GLAM organization on a particular project (this is very different, for example, from someone showing off their favorite brand on their user page).--Pharos (talk) 19:54, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
• Even if it weren't for NFCC 9, I don't see how it would pass 8. There's no pressing need for the logo, the name would quite suffice. Might be a "nice to have", but that's textbook decorative use. Seraphimblade 20:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
  • The more basic question I would ask is: Why do we have this overarching policy in the first place? I would say it is for two reasons, (1) For article pages, to encourage the creation and replacement on non-free images by free images and (2) for non-article pages, to prevent the proliferation and miscellaneous use of non-free images that might be be violating copyright, or that would make third party use problematic. In this case, neither justification really applies. The use of a GLAM logo on a meetup page is not preventing the creation of free images, it's not violating copyright, and it's not endangering third party use in any way. Really, the meetup pages are not part of the encyclopedia itself (such rules are never applied to identical pages on a Wikimedia chapter website), and should be treated differently.--Pharos (talk) 20:14, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
    • We have that policy because this is a free content project, and so we use nonfree content only sparingly, only to enhance educational article content, and only when it's clearly necessary. In an article about a company, the logo is a core part of the identity and branding of many companies, so use of the logo is necessary. As a decoration for a meetup page, it's not, so it's not allowed, since a text list of organizations would suffice to convey the information. What chapters do on their own websites is of course up to them, but all pages on Misplaced Pages must follow the NFCC rules. Perhaps if you really want to use the logos, you could consider having a chapter host it and linking to that page, that would be perfectly fine. Seraphimblade 20:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is inconsistent with the Wikimedia Foundation's licensing policy, which indicates that nonfree content may be used only to enhance article content. The proposal doesn't seem to be well thought out at all, since BrillLyle's comment above suggests that partner logos from Commons can't be used on meetup and talk pages, even though it should be obvious that they can be. Moreover, having taken a quick look at the proposed use, I don't see why someone couldn't extract the "Queens Library" typography, which is recognizable without being copyrightable. That would be more consistent with the other logos displayed. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 20:16, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. No exceptions are allowed by default and the only exceptions allowed by request are non-article space pages "that are used to manage questionable non-free content" (WP:NFEXMP), and the page described in this request surely isn't one. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 20:31, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
• Perhaps one should encourage these partner organizations to license their logos - I find it unlikely that a logo would need more than attribution and trademarks to serve their purposes. Sort of a NFCC#1 concern this one - instead of accepting non-frees in metaspace, encourage the licensing thereof may be preferable.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)