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Awards season

Looks like it's awards season. I don't usually get too involved in awards drama, but it looks like we're getting a lot of updates to a lot of pages, and these are going to need to be sourced. Also, it looks like a few new pages are being created, such as 2015 Boston Online Film Critics Association Awards. I can't help but notice that neither Boston Online Film Critics Association Awards nor Boston Online Film Critics Association exist at the time of my writing this message. So, get ready for a deluge of non-notable awards and awards pages, I guess. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:28, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Random facts: According to whois.net the award site was created in 2011. I only see three news articles mentioning "Boston Online Film Critics Association Awards". They seem to occur circa Feb/March 2014 and are written in Italian. The article was created by this guy who seems to edit primarily in film award articles, many of which lack any attempt to establish notability, like National Board of Review Awards 2015, Art Directors Guild Awards 2014, (this one may have some legs, since I notice that a related template was created in 2006. I dunno.) Costume Designers Guild Awards 2014, and so on. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:14, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Digging deeper, there was some kind of drama over their winners list, so it's at least conceivable that the BOFCA is notable. But I'm not too keen on awards-by-year and best actor/actress/film sub-articles for every regional critics society. If we had a guideline on that, I think it would help. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

It might be somewhat helpful to look into the people behind the award. If the site is run by people who have some expertise in the field, and if some major sites are acknowledging their awards (as it appears may be happening) then maybe they're worth considering. I do fear, however, that any start-up award can get publicity through the dissemination of clever press releases. Any controversial counter-opinion ultimately means more page hits for the reporting site, so maybe they like award start-ups? I dunno. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:21, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

NinjaRobotPirate, not sure if you were around before, but there have been a number of debates here at WT:FILM about awards organization articles. The biggest challenge about these organizations is that not a lot is written about them directly. Periodicals do report the recognitions that come out of such organizations. Generally speaking, an organization should satisfy WP:ORGDEPTH to have its own article. However, that guideline does say, "If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability." In the case of BOFCA, there is a lack of in-depth coverage, but numerous periodicals, including trade papers Variety and The Hollywood Reporter, have reported that organization's recognitions. The problem is that the coverage is essentially just list of awards. We could either have a consensus to permit such award articles based on multiple shallow sources or not. Erik (talk | contrib) 15:36, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

For many of them, it's tough for me to say whether they're notable or not. There's usually some kind of minor coverage in their home town newspaper, and their glorified press releases often get highly replicated across reliable sources. If there isn't even that much, then, yeah, I'd say it's a clear delete. Obviously, a bunch of press releases isn't enough for orgdepth/gng, but I'm willing to stretch the rules a little when there's something to supplement it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:11, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

There's a mess developing over at Brooklyn (film) and I can't get to it right now, if anyone wants to clean it up. Lapadite (talk) 16:02, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Yikes. Luckily, that seems to have cleared up. Going through the article history, it looks like someone was adding the standard "universal acclaim" puffery. I think I'm too tired right now, but I'll see if I can source those awards later. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:11, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

• For me, I think that an awards organization could be considered notable if there are multiple notable RS reporting on the results. IE, if at least 4-5 RS like Twitch Film and the NYT report the award results, that can be a sign of notability even if they're just reprinting a basic list. If it's an article-article, then so much the better. I've noticed that especially lately, many of the major film websites tend to skip reporting results of all but the more well known organizations because there's just so many of them nowadays and there seems to be more and more coming up all the time. The organizations might be serious and not award factories like some of the stuff out there (meaning that they only give out about 20-30 awards or less a year) but it's not exactly hard for places to launch nowadays. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 05:32, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I'd suggest editors watch List of accolades received by Carol (film) for indiscriminate entries. There have been some non-notable minor awards cited to unreliable sources since before the list was split. On that note, I figure AwardsDaily is a reliable source for this context, as one of its editors is Sasha Stone, who's written for various industry magazines. Lapadite (talk) 22:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Pedro Costa

Pedro Costa's article notes that he was born on 3 March 1959. Several of the foreign-language Wikipedias, as well as many internet websites, also give the dates 30 December 1958 and 3 January 1959. Thoughts? I have not been able to adjudicate independently which date is the correct one. Thanks. 109.67.195.14 (talk) 21:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Numerous search results in Google Books shows his birth year to be 1959. Not finding anything immediately about the specific month and day. Erik (talk | contrib) 21:54, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Please write back if you find more information. 109.67.195.14 (talk) 21:57, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

For what it's worth, a biographical article does not have to show the specific date of birth. We can use a template to use that birth year and estimate his age within 1 year or so. See Alex Tse as an example. Erik (talk | contrib) 22:15, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

3.3.1959 still seems to be the most popular and is also the one appearing on IMDb, so I will leave it at that. I was simply wondering maybe there is someone here who knows for sure... 109.67.195.14 (talk) 22:21, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Even if it is popular, it may still be incorrect if we cannot find a reliable source stating it. IMDb is not considered reliable for Misplaced Pages's purposes because content is user-submitted and likely not closely-reviewed. I would recommend putting just the birth year for now until someone can find a reliable source showing the full birthdate. Erik (talk | contrib) 22:24, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Some sources I can find for now: 30.12.1958 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6); 3.3.1959 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15); 3.1.1959 (1). 109.67.195.14 (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Changed his date of birth on his article to 30.12.1958 for the time being given that the most reliable source I could find online for the time being, Jornal de Notícias, a daily which is one of the oldest in Portugal, states it as true. Please comment if you believe otherwise. 109.67.195.14 (talk) 12:57, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Academy Award page move

Please see this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts 07:47, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Use of year categories in upcoming films

Please see Talk:Captain_America:_Civil_War#Category:2016_films for a discussion on using year categories for upcoming films. BOVINEBOY2008 16:38, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Note that TriiipleThreat is still banging on about this. FFS. Lugnuts 10:20, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I am but not for the same issue being raised here.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 10:26, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Limitless page move

Please see the discussion here. Thanks. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:51, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Cinderella (2015 Indian film) page move

Please see the discussion here. Thanks. Lugnuts 19:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Proposal to create an infobox for fictional conflicts

I am proposing that an infobox be created for fictional conflicts, as currently many articles on fictional conflicts, as well as a real-time virtual battle, use Template:Infobox military conflict. To centralize discussion, please reply, if interested, at the infobox talk page I've linked to here.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 05:34, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

RfC at WT:ANIME

There is an important RfC at WT:ANIME in regards to production companies and anime film articles. The RFC can be found at here. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:35, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Casting consensus

I've lately been trying to help improve Misplaced Pages by trying to cut down on some of the clutter in the production section articles. I find that many such production sections consist mostly of "On (Insert Date here) X joined the cast. On (Insert Date Here) X Joined the cast, and so on and so on some times for paragraphs at a time, Lately, within the past few months or so I've been just deleting these section because the information provided is trivial at best, and the cluttered look, I believe hurts the project more than helps it. Lately I've been running into a few people who think that this is the wrong approach because they say the information of when cast members joined is valuable information that should be kept regardless of the clutter. I'm starting to think that. I may be in the wrong, because I just want to make these articles useful, I don't think I should have to fight about it. So I kinda wanted to get a project wide opinion on this.

I would present to you as an example of what I'm talking about Pete's Dragon. I would say that when compared to something like Inside Out (2015 film)the production section leaves a lot to be desired and has a lot of indiscriminite details that don't belong there.

I don't know I'm getting really sick of fighting these fights and was just hoping that we could all come to a consensus about how these sections should handle casting news. --Deathawk (talk) 16:23, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

My initial thought is that it could be reasonably argued that "John Doe joined the cast on MMDDYY" is trivial and probably can be safely removed once a film has been released, though it may be interesting/useful prior to that point. If there's meatier information relating to their casting, then it should probably be retained. DonIago (talk) 16:34, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Specific dates are of little use, however more general time references can be useful for contextual purposes so the reader understands how the film came together. These can also be grouped together depending on the general time so we do not have a bunch of short sentences.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:42, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Another issue is that is there are sources of actors who have appeared in the movie and are appearing in upcoming ones that should be kept in either in the production section or whatever section that they should be in if we're going to make these kinds of changes. BattleshipMan (talk) 16:47, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree that the proseline clutter needs to be addressed. The details do not necessarily have to be removed entirely, but at least compressed. Here's an example of what I did at Gods of Egypt (film):

• Before: On 5 June 2013, actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has signed up to star in the film as Horus, a God of the sky. On September 24, 2013, Gerard Butler also joined the film's cast to play the role of Set, a God of the desert, storms and foreigners in ancient Egyptian religion. On the same day Geoffrey Rush also closed a deal to join the epic fantasy Gods of Egypt for Summit, he'll play the role of Ra, a God of the Sun and also father of Set and Osiris. Later on 7 October, Summit added Brenton Thwaites as a lead actor in the fantasy film's cast, he will play Bek, a human thief. On December 12, 2013, a new actress Courtney Eaton joined the film as a lead actress, she will be playing the role of Zaya, a slave girl who is cursed by Set. On January 30, 2014, Chadwick Boseman has signed on to star in the film as Thoth, the god of wisdom. On February 19, 2014 Élodie Yung joined the cast of the film as the goddess Hathor. On March 20, all other cast was also revealed as filming began, which includes Bruce Spence, Bryan Brown, Emma Booth, Abbey Lee Kershaw, Rachael Blake, Robyn Nevin, Paula Arundell, Alexander England, Goran D. Kleut and Yaya Deng.
• After: Actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was cast in June 2013. Gerard Butler, Geoffrey Rush, and Brenton Thwaites joined the cast toward the end of 2013. Chadwick Boseman and Elodie Yung joined the cast at the start of 2014.

Here, I excluded the character names since they can be seen in the "Cast" section and excluded actors who did not receive billing (the last sentence). I identified the first person to join the cast, then I grouped those who joined later that year. I also mentioned another group that joined at the beginning of the year. I applied WP:CITEBUNDLE here as well to avoid multiple footnotes at the end of a sentence. Maybe we do not need the new passage at all, but I think it at least helps frame the "Production" section, like to show that the first actor did not join until a year after the film began development. The problem with the proseline clutter is that sentence after sentence is just tacked on. The content has to be revisited after some growth to determine a cleaner way to present it. Erik (talk | contrib) 16:55, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, based on Erik's suggestion, I think the first actors who joined any movie, top listing ones, anyone in the billing bulletin list at theatrical posters and any recurring actors who appeared in any film series should be included with reliable sources. BattleshipMan (talk) 17:05, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

If it's a clear case of WP:PROSELINE then that needs to be removed, but in the case of stubs and "start" class article you need to make sure you don't derail the development process. With Pete's Dragon what you basically have is a bare bones article, and the lighthouse stuff may be trivial as it stands but on the other hand it may have relevance if there were more context. I've done quite a bit of development work on stubs and "start" class articles and sometimes I have managed to integrate existing "trivia" into a more coherent article and on other occasions I have dropped it. Sometimes it is hard to tell at first what you are going to use and what you are not. Betty Logan (talk) 17:15, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Wait a minute, I think what Deathawk was referring to is the 2016 remake of Pete's Dragon. And what we need to settle is how to resolve the issues of actors who joined in a film without causing any clashing issues of consensus. BattleshipMan (talk) 17:29, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I apologize, I was tired when I composed my initial massage and somehow forgot to include the 2016 at the end of Pete's Dragon. --Deathawk (talk) 22:24, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Do you think we should do with the trimmed down casting list Erik suggested? BattleshipMan (talk) 19:22, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to join a Star Wars discussion

This is a neutral notice to have additional members of this project weigh in on a discussion at Star Wars: The Force Awakens regarding including it being known as Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens in the lead. (Note this is not a discussion regarding moving the article.) You can find the discussion here, and for those of you sensative to spoilers regarding the film, this section does not have any and you should be able to avoid any on the talk page if you click that link directly and stay at the top of the talk page. (There are a few minor ones at the very bottom currently). Thanks. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:11, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Is Funny Games a horror film?

Please see this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts 09:19, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

AfD notice

The article on the short film NHAMO has been nominated for deletion. As it has passed through two relisting cycles without any comment, members of the project may wish to take a look and opine on whether or not it meets Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 12:01, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Wikiclaus' cheer to all.

		Wikiclaus greetings
		Michael Q. Schmidt is wishing everyone the happiest of Wikiclaus' Wikipedian good cheer. This message is intended to celebrate the holiday season, promote WikiCheer, and to hopefully make your day just a little bit better, for Wikiclaus encourages us all to spread smiles, fellowship, and seasonal good cheer by wishing others a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings and the happiest of holiday spirits from Wikiclaus !

Have a good one too, Michael. Thanks for all your excellent work over the past year. I think I'll spend the day watching Requiem for a Dream, Stroszek and 21 Grams to get me in the festive mood. Ho ho ho. Lugnuts 14:54, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Zoolander No. 2

Regarding Zoolander No. 2, an editor tried to move it to Zoolander 2. However, this film's billing block appears to show that the official title is Zoolander No. 2. Can we make this assumption? This says the billing block is "the product of detailed legal agreements and intense contract negotiation", so it seems correct to call it Zoolander No. 2 instead of Zoolander 2, though the official website uses the latter. There is a discussion on the talk page here. Erik (talk | contrib) 14:47, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Millennium (miniseries)

I made a topic about turning the Millennium TV miniseries into a film series article instead. You can find more about the situation here. Lucia Black (talk) 20:56, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Aviation film task force

Any interest in creating this task force? The following are examples of authoritative sources that can be exploited in writing articles on this genre.

• Carlson, Mark. Flying on Film: A Century of Aviation in the Movies, 1912–2012. Duncan, Oklahoma: BearManor Media, 2012. ISBN 978-1-59393-219-0.
• Dolan, Edward F. Jr. Hollywood Goes to War. London: Bison Books, 1985. ISBN 0-86124-229-7.
• Farmer, James H. Broken Wings: Hollywood's Air Crashes. Missoula, Montana: Pictorial Histories Pub Co., 1984. ISBN 978-0-933126-46-6.
• Farmer, James H. Celluloid Wings: The Impact of Movies on Aviation. Blue Ridge Summit, Pennsylvania: Tab Books Inc., 1984. ISBN 978-0-83062-374-7.
• Farmer, James H. "Filming the Right Stuff." Air Classics, Part One: Vol. 19, No. 12, December 1983, Part Two: Vol. 20, No. 1, January 1984.
• Harwick, Jack and Ed Schnepf. "A Buff's Guide to Aviation Movies". Air Progress Aviation, Volume 7, No. 1, Spring 1983.
• Mackenzie, S.P. British War Films, 1939-1945: The Cinema and the Services. London: Continuum, 2001. ISBN 978-1-85285-586-4.
• Murphy, Robert. British Cinema and the Second World War. London: Continuum, 2000. ISBN 978-0-82645-139-2.
• Orriss, Bruce W. When Hollywood Ruled the Skies: The Aviation Film Classics of World War I. Los Angeles: Aero Associates, 2013. ISBN 978-0-692-02004-3.
• Orriss, Bruce. When Hollywood Ruled the Skies: The Aviation Film Classics of World War II. Hawthorne, California: Aero Associates Inc., 1984. ISBN 0-9613088-0-X.

• Parish, James Robert. The Great Combat Pictures: Twentieth-Century Warfare on the Screen. Metuchen, New Jersey: The Scarecrow Press, 1990. ISBN 978-0810823150.
• Pendo, Stephen. Aviation in the Cinema. Lanham, Maryland: Scarecrow Press, 1985. ISBN 0-8-1081-746-2.
• Silke, James R. "Fists, Dames & Wings." Air Progress Aviation Review, Volume 4, No. 4, October 1980.
• Wynne, H. Hugh. The Motion Picture Stunt Pilots and Hollywood's Classic Aviation Movies. Missoula, Montana: Pictorial Histories Publishing Co., 1987. ISBN 0-933126-85-9. FWiW Bzuk (talk)

How do we judge how actor articles should be rated?

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Angelina Jolie#How do we judge how actor articles should be rated?. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Rotten Tomatoes

I started a discussion about review aggregation websites such as Rotten Tomatoes. I would appreciate some feedback from some of this project's members. Thanks. SharkD  Talk  23:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Misplaced Pages talk:Neutral point of view#Review score aggregators like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:09, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Combined my section with this one. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:15, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

YYYY in film

Hey all, I'm no expert on tables, but I don't believe that the "YYYY in film" articles (2015 in film, for instance) are in compliance with MOS:DTT as the large, multiple rowspans, and vertical text, do not facilitate accessibility for visually impaired users who employ screen readers. I've started converting some of the future articles (2020 in film, 2019 in film, 2018 in film) to a simpler format, which has two additional benefits: 1) They don't require casual editors to be savants at table formatting to add and subtract films. In my experience at the Indian equivalent (ex: List of Bollywood films of 2015), it was always a nightmare to fix other editors' rowspan errors, and I'm not very good at table formatting. Confuses the crap out of me. 2) By using {{DTS}}, all the tables can be made sortable, which is more useful if you're interested in listing by studio, or genre. I expect that my changes will ruffle some feathers, because "that's the way we've always done it, and what about the gorgeous colors?!" so I thought it wise to voice my perspective here before moving onto the beefier articles like 2016 and 2015. Thoughts? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:32, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Mad Max page move

Please see this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts 17:52, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Time to look at what is best!!

The project needs to look at what is best for our readers... deleting all links/template to movies/actors and leaving 30 awards templates on actor pages does not help our readers. Project need sit down and fix the spam of templates without going out of there way to imped real navigation. Content editors keep bring this up again again again...they what to know why there work is being orphaned from templates. Dont be the project that people use as an example of what not to do WP:ADVICEPAGE!! Is this project sure that an article like Robert De Niro is better off with hundreds of links to unrelated articles over his films? Do our readers want to find related articles or unrelated articles...to most this setup seem backwards and counter productive. -- Moxy (talk) 17:17, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Are you talkin' to me....? Lugnuts 18:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

OK, I've had a quick look at the De Niro article and I assume your concern is the dozen or more templates at the foot of the article. These are all collapsed by default, so the readers aren't drawn to them in the first place. Now the harsh truth is that templates are here to stay. They're part of WP's fabric, as are categories and lists. Maybe there is an excess of them on De Niro's page, but where to start? You could say that some of those awards aren't worthy of a template, but which one? I don't know how "good" the Boston Society of Film Critics is, for example, compared with other film awards. You could start an RfC on that template to remove it. But I'll tell you what will happen. You'll get some editors defending it to their grave. You'll get another set of editors wanting it to be deleted. This will drag on for at least 30 days. Everyone will waste vast amounts of time and an admin will come along and close it as no consensus. Don't believe me? Go ahead and see. And the salt in the wound that only half-a-dozen or so people will probably contribute to get a (non)-"consensus". On the other hand, as De Niro isn't a Film, maybe this is best raised with the actor project... Lugnuts 19:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

RfC at Star Wars: The Force Awakens

There is an RfC at Star Wars: The Force Awakens regarding if a title including "Episode VII" should be considered an alternate title to the film. The RfC can be found here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:38, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

The Rotten Tomatoes "Certified Fresh" designation at the Star Wars: The Force Awakens article

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Star Wars: The Force Awakens#"Certified Fresh" designation. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:53, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water director credit

Hey all, does anyone have any info about who was credited onscreen as the director of The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water? AFI says that Paul Tibbitt was the director, but the kids keep adding Mike Mitchell, who apparently directed the live-action sequences. Obviously we shouldn't be fabricating credits for people, and by comparison, we normally don't credit second unit directors. If Mitchell received an opening credit as one of the directors, that should be included. It's just not clear from my research whether that's the case or not. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

2014 celebrity photo hack information at the Jennifer Lawrence article

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Jennifer Lawrence#Scandal. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:07, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

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