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v t e About me my wiki history This user is... err... Halibutt, or at least thinks so. 36k+ This user has made more than 36k contributions to Misplaced Pages.  0.069%  This user has created 4,748 of the 6,929,274 articles on the English language Misplaced Pages. This user has been on Misplaced Pages for 21 years and 27 days. This user is a member of the Polish military history task force of WikiProject Military history. This user is a map maker languages - This user is a translator and proofreader from Polish to English on Misplaced Pages:Translation. - This user is a translator and proofreader from Spanish to English on Misplaced Pages:Translation. pl Polszczyzna jest językiem ojczystym tego użytkownika. en-3 This user can contribute with an advanced level of English. es-2 Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel intermedio de español. ru-2 Этот участник неплохо знает русский язык. la-1 Hic usor simplici latinitate contribuere potest. pt-1 Este usuário/utilizador pode contribuir com um nível básico de português. it-1 Questo utente può contribuire con un livello semplice di italiano. be-1 Гэты ўдзельнік/гэтая ўдзельніца ведае беларускую мову на пачатковым узроўні. uk-1 Користувач може робити внесок українською мовою на початковому рівні. cs-1 Tento uživatel má základní znalosti češtiny. de-0 Dieser Benutzer hat keine Deutschkenntnisse. AmE-0 This user dislikes American 'English' (common grammatical and spelling errors mistaken for dialect). ... This user would like to be able to speak more languages. about me This user lives in Warsaw. This user is Central European. Coffee first, work later. This user is nocturnal. GMT ? This user's time zone depends on whenever he decides to get up today. POEM This user has had one of his poems published. SHORT STORY This user has had one of his/her short stories published. This user has published a book. MAGAZINE This user has had his work published in a magazine. ACADEMIC JOURNAL This user has had his/her work published in an academic journal. interests This user is a history aficionado. This user enjoys reading anything. This user has a camera and won't hesitate to use it This user collects ducks. All kinds of ducks. This user prefers snail-mail and knows how to use a quill This user is an armchair general fps-3 This user is an advanced serial killer. Fancy a play? This user would like to be a humanist. This user used to be a scout. This user's homeworld is mostly harmless. Ceci n'est pas une boîte utilisateur. This user is from Camelot, and eats ham and jam and spamalot! other stuff This user contributes using Firefox. This user prefers cold weather. This user barely ever goes out bareheaded. This user supports the European Union.

Re:Epigon

Well, regarding your maps, first thing is talking to him and explaining what GDFL license is about. I told him about the Gajl template and that not is using it is a copyvio. Let's see what is his reply.

In other news, are you following Talk:Camps for Russian prisoners and internees in Poland (1919-1924)? Your knowledge of Cyrillic would be appreciated there.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging for Image:Ghetto_Uprising_Warsaw.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Ghetto_Uprising_Warsaw.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Misplaced Pages's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see User talk:Carnildo/images. 17:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

1926 Polish copyright act

Z Image:Breguet 14 Kijów.jpg: "As such it falls under the 1926 copyright act, almost identical to the 1952 act." - mimo wszystko to jest znacząca róznica, i przydałaby się osobna template dla tych zdjęć. Inna sprawa - jeśli zdjęcie jest z 1920, to niezależnie chyba od tego kiedy było opublikowane, jest już w public domain chyba? A jak tam postęp z obroną PolishPD?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

No, but I'll ask. Any chance you cna fix your talk page? It's really annoying that one cannot find the section edit buttons here...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Zapytałem się tu, tu, i na pl-wiki - zobaczymy, czy ktoś odpowie. A co do twojej strony, to ja w mojej Mozilli widzę straszne rzeczy: babel po lewej, archiwa i ToC na samym dole, edit linki zebrane w rządek na samym dole. To w sumie problem który widziałem na twoich stronach od kilku miesięcy, przynajmniej (i chyba nie jestem jedyny który o tym ci pisał)?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Są pierwsze odpowiedzi na forach.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 03:58, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Co do strony, to nie mam praktycznie nic zmodyfikowane. Problem nr 1 to długość twoich szablonów archiwów i babel jest większa niż długośc strony; przeniesienie archiwów nad babel nieco polepsza sprawę, ale dalej długi ToC z prawej i Babel z lewej to dość wypaczają. Przeniesienie Babel na userpage mogłoby duuużo pomóc.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Interwiki in sound file license template

A user has transferred a bunch of your sound files to svwiki, so I transferred User:Halibutt/ogg - sv:Mall:Halibutt ogg - and added interwiki both here and there. To the best of my understanding, this must be correctly handled - right? Please tell me if there is something you would like to add! (The user labelled your files PD at svwiki, but we will have that fixed. Don't worry.) // Habj 20:31, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree Commons would be a better idea, but since this user already uploaded them at svwiki... // Habj 22:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Prawo autorskie

Zasadniczo mam dostep, ale nie w tym momencie, bo od paru tygodni cierpię na problemy z nowym windowsem XP, w związku z czym jeszcze nie próbowałem instalować sobie Lexa (w którym to chyba było). Na razie spróbuję jutro sprawdzić w pracy. Tak na marginesie, rzuć może okiem na moje stare "przemyślenia" na temat tych przepisów na pl:Dyskusja_Wikipedii:Prawa_autorskie - tak na dobrą sprawę nie możemy wiedzieć, czy faktycznie te zdjęcia nie są chronione, to jedynie domniemanie z tego, że ukazały się bez copyrightu... Pibwl ] 18:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Mam te ustawy, poszly do Halibutta na gmaila.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:41, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Former landmarks of Warsaw

See .--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think it would be a valid article - and that it would be long is just more reason to write it. Thx for Warsaw Arsenal - can you pleeese post your new articles at Portal:Poland/New_article_announcements - that way I can add referenced articles to Template:Did you know (or you can add them there yourself, to :>).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Anything you can tell me about the Staszic Palace (on the photo at Stanisław Staszic article) that is not mentioned in the pic description? I wonder if he founded it or if it was just named after him...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:47, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Greater Poland Uprising

Hi Halibutt, just wanted to let you know that I moved all the articles from Greater Poland Uprising to Wielkopolska Uprising to reflect the voting (I guess the admin forgot to do it himself). Appleseed (Talk) 18:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Vorkuta

Hi! I am of two minds about the Vorkuta image caption. In that particular context the Soviet slogan is indeed very similar to German's. It still feels uneasy, because that exact same slogan and many others similar to it were installed in many Soviet locations, not just in the forced labor camps. German slogan, on the other hand, was primarily used for concentration camps. Soviet was more generic. While the caption in its present form is somewhat valid, it may lead to wrong conclusions. Anyway, I'll leave the caption alone for now, but will try to think of a better way to re-write it to make it less ambiguous.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 15:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Halibutt, please stop spreading lies. Other users had been at talk all along. And please add the accusiation of lieing to your userpage. The list is incomplete. And, btw, the list also contains lies :(. I never called you a troll. I called some of your actions trolling. Troll is someone who does nothing else. I never claimed you are the one. --Irpen 19:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and before you modify your list, please note, I haven't called you a lier either. I said that you lied at the specific occasions. Perhaps, even, you were simply mistaken and told "not truthes" not on purpose. So, please don't add a "lier" to the list. --Irpen 19:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

WU 1794

I think we managed to tone done that article to reasonable levels, but if you think we should NPOV it further, go ahead - nothing ventured, nothing gained. As for the M concentration camp, do you think it's a good time to send it to PR? I think that this article comprehensive enough to end up as a FA soon.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:57, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Warsaw Uprising

Dear Pan Halibutt. Before I ask my questions I want to express my admirations for your work and for many interesting articles you have published. You made a significant work for Polish studies on Wiki. It’s a proud work indeed. I have been interested in Warsaw uprising for a long time now. I have some questions regarding the participation of Foreign Volunteers on the German side in the uprising. There were allegations that 14 SS Galicia or Galizia (Ukrainian SS division) took part in uprising and conducted many brutalities. These allegations were denied by veterans of 14 Galicia and by some historians. It’s a fact that there were foreign volunteers fighting on German side in Warsaw (Kaminskis SS Brigade POHA and some members of POA-Russian Liberation Army). Maybe those Poles who gave testimonies about the atrocities confused Ukrainians with Russians? Also as I know Azerbaidjani volunteers were fighting against Poles in Warsaw. Did they commit atrocities? What other foreign volunteers of the Third Reich took part in the uprising? Thanks in advance and wishing you all the best. Please contribute more polish articles :) Noxchi Borz 16:24, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Pan Halibutt, Thanks so much for such an insightful and very informative information. I didn’t really expect to find out so many things in one day. Thanks to you now I have full information on Foreign Volunteers in Warsaw Uprising. I was well aware of RONA participation in uprising and also was convinced in the falsehood regarding Vlasov. However, Vlasov made numerous mistakes when he implemented Russian nationalistic policies in KONR regarding the self determination of many nations under Russian control. Although he later corrected that mistake. There was a big opposition from Ukrainian side about the involvement of 14 SS in the uprising. They still have firm believe that those were false allegations and polish provocations to present them as villains. I still don’t understand the main root causes of polish Ukrainian conflict. These are two very close nations. I think they have much greater enemy in the east. Its very sad to read about Azeri participation in the uprising. Azeris joined Wermacht due to many reasons but mainly for national liberation (others like Armenians Georgians, Baltic people, Ukrainians, Turkistani has same reasons). Is it true that Dmitry Shalikashvili (former officer in Polish army of Georgian decent) was member of Georgian SS (under BregadenFuhrer Tsulukidze) and he took part in the uprising? I think those were only allegations. He was one of the Georgian émigrés (of aristocratic background) who loved and admired Poland. Please visit: http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/Poland/georpol.htm

And please let me know what you think about it. I’m very happy to have found you because it’s very hard to meet a person which such a vast knowledge in military history. I have tons of questions but I don’t think you have enough time to answer them. They start from Ulans of Napoleon (in Spain and Waterloo) till the massacre of Polish officers by Soviets.  Thanks again for dedicating your time and giving me so much info. Im planning to start article on Georgians in Polish army and if you have some info or want to help out I would be grateful.  All the best Pan halibut. Best wishes. Noxchi Borz 18:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Pan Halibutt, You can not imagine how helpful this information was. I can’t express enough gratitude. This info actually will help me to do more research on those Georgians. As I know Polish government in 1920 also supported liberation movements within republics of Caucasus. From many émigrés in Poland they organized an organization called “Prometey” which was financed by Polish government in establishing military units composed of Caucasian nationals. They even had training camps all across Poland. Polish government also conducted serious research on cultures and history of Caucasian nations and collected great amount of information (later used by Germans Abwehr to form eastern volunteer units). There were some operations conducted in Georgia in 1930s. Via Turkey Georgian insurgents attacked Soviets but most of these operations failed. Many people in Tbilisi who have been involved were executed. Shakilashvilis biography is very interesting and controversial. He was one of the Georgian aristocrats who fled the Bolshevik invasion. He joined Polish army. In his work he expressed gratitude and love for Poland. When Germans invaded he was contacted by Georgian émigrés from Berlin (they had organized Georgian Committee White George). Members of that committee were his former friends and fellow aristocrats (count Amilakshvari, Prince Dadiani and Chavchavadze). They pleaded with him to join the Georgian Legion (under the command of a brilliant general Shalva Maglakelidze). He was convinced by Abwehr agents and by German propaganda for liberation of Georgia. He joined his friend who became BregadenFuhrer Michael Tsulukidze (former officer of Georgian Democratic Republic) in newly formed Georgian SS unit. Both of them had good relations with Admiral Canaris. During the uprising in Warsaw, Salikashvili refused to join German units in Poland and surrendered to the western allies in France. However, there was a version by Soviet propagandists who claimed that Shalikashvili took part I the uprising. By this claim they made him a villain. Before he died in US, John Shalikashvili (son and later a big man in US army) witnessed his last moments. He asked John to never forget Georgia and go back there someday. Its very interesting relationship Polish had with Georgians before and after WWII. Unfortunately many poles don’t know even a simple thing about Georgia (a country which admired them). With Kober I will try to make an article about it in Wiki. What do you think? Thanks a lot again Hali, I really appreciate your help. All the best. LD. Noxchi Borz 20:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Partisans in Poland

Halibutt, I decided to write here first because I want to treat the issue separately from the conflict with that filthy mouth fellow. I will respond to your question about pictures at that article's talk.

As for the "...in Poland" section, I have doubts about its appropriateness. I first thought that you were going to repeat what someone else tried to do before and write a section on AL. I seemed to have convinced that guy that while AL was indeed largely Soviet controlled, it was still not a Soviet partisan unit.

However, what you write, is a different matter. You are writing about the territories detached from Poland and attached to Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania before the war. As such, this material belongs to the existing sections, I think. I mean that Soviet partisans in WWII in the territories of the former Second Polish Republic might be a legitimate article but as a section here, it simply doesn't fit IMO. What do you say? --Irpen 18:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you trying to fool me or yourself? Irpen, you're not trying to reach a compromise, you're trying your best to force the others to accept your views, which is a different matter. And a complete loss of time, if you asked me.

We've reached a compromise solution with Kuban Kazak and guess what? Irpen came and reverted to his preferred version. Which makes me think that using talk pages to reach a compromise makes no sense since there'd always be some Irpen to come and revert to what his POV tells him. I wasted enough time to prepare the articles you fix, I don't have enough time to waste on talking to a wall, as we say here in Poland. You have your views and apparently are dedicated to spreading them in wiki at all cost. So be it. You don't want to listen to arguments of other people - fine, do as you please. Want to change the articles to your liking - fine again. But be advised that it's a two-way road.

You've been complaining about Molobo's POV pushing, yet you become his mirror, just on the other side of the fence. He's using modern Polish sources which you find incredible - yet you're using either your own judgement (Volodarka) or some 19th century Russian prop (Orthodox church in Warsaw during the insurrection anyone?). It's your right to be hot-headed, but you don't have a right to assume my bad will or offend me the way you do. Want to continue your behaviour - feel free to. I will not offend you the way you did because in Poland it is believed that such behaviour tells more of the offending part and not of the offended person. However, if all wiki accepts your attitude, in no time all Russian-related articles will be vandalized the way you're vandalizing all articles you find related to Russia. You start adding Soviet propaganda - people will start adding Nazi one. For every liberation remark you add you will get a Soviet imperialism remark. This would be disruptive to the project and I believe that in the end all the people to adopt your ways would be banned, but the damage done to wikipedia would be serious. And it takes much more time to repair the image of Misplaced Pages once it starts reflect as radical views as yours.

Also, if you have a problem with international law not recognizing territorial changes through war then consult your MP and ask him to change it. Until then the Nazi-Soviet alliance and its outcome are not binding - at least not for anyone outside of USSR and Nazi Germany. The alternative is to call all sections according to the contemporary naming: Soviet partisans in General Government, Soviet Partisans in Reichskommissariat Ostland and so on. The territories I wrote about in the context of 1943 were detached from Poland in 1945 - and it was not before the war, but after it. Before the war those territories did not belong to the USSR. Check any contemporary map and you'll see. //Halibutt 22:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

hitchhiking wiki

Hi! I was googling for hitchhiking wikipedians and found you on the German Misplaced Pages. :) I'm looking for some more action on the Hitchhiker's Guide to Hitchhiking. I guess you might be interested... Guaka 15:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

User talk:217.25.31.2

This indeed seems to be a serious problem and I have to admit I don't see any way to solve it. All of those articles you mention seem to require very specific historical knowledge so it's hard to get an opinion from outside and a small group of users voting in a block and knowingly using unreliable sources can easily manipulate them to fit their political agenda. I'm afraid all I can offer here are are my sympathies and respect for the hard work you do here regardless of the circumstances. --217.25.31.2 08:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

RE:Okopy Świętej Trójcy

Halibutt, don't post disingenuous crap on my talk page. If you wanna vent your nationalism, go sing your national anthem and shed a tear or two at your flag and the glories of the Polish past - that way you won't bother busy people like me. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Notice of arbitration

Hi! I filled an arbitration request concerning the usage of "liberation" in WP articles. If you are interested in, please add your name to the list of the involved parties and type your statement.

Please inform everybody who could be interested in.--AndriyK 20:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Apology

Halibutt, I have to admit that I was caught by surprise by your commentary at the Mediation case. Is it your opinion that I have some personal grudge against you? If so, I would like to set your mind at ease, as I do not. I respect you as a fellow editor on Misplaced Pages, as someone who I agree with in some cases, and disagree with in others. I remember that I did refer to an archive at your userpage at one point, when asked for details of reasons that I felt uncomfortable on the Polish Wikipedian Noticeboard, but I did not mean that as a condemnation of you. If I gave you that impression, I do apologize for it. Overall, I have no problem in working on articles with you, I respect your opinion (even if I occasionally disagree with it), and I look forward to collaborating with you in future efforts. --Elonka 02:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Adding "liberation" to "Words to avoid"

I filled the proposal for Words to avoid. Please find it here. I would be thankfull for your commennts, suggestions and corrections.--AndriyK 15:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

RfC about Irpen's conduct

Hi! We filled a request for comment concerning the conduct of User:Irpen. Your comment is kindly invited.--AndriyK 16:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Could you take a look at articles regardging German Empire and Bismarck?

The usuall problem, I added references on policy towards Poles made by Bismarck and treatment of Poles in German Empire. Of course Scinurea arrived at once and deleted it as usually it is the case, seeing your impressive work that stopped Scinurea from messing up with Hakata and Kulturkampf articles, could you help in some time ? Especially since right now they are awfully biased. --Molobo 21:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Private - Invitation (Warsaw, 25.05.)

Witam, prywatne zaproszenie w ostatniej chwili niestety. :]

Tak się składa, ze prywatnie udzielam sie takze choralnie. :)
Chór Kameralny św. Cecylii - naście osób w wieku studenckim i postudenckim pod dyrekcją Marty Jakubiec - bedzie dawać drobny koncert XX-wiecznej muzyki sakralnej, z Polski i szeroko pojętych okolic. :)

Chór będzie śpiewał 25tego 06. (niedziela) podczas mszy łacińskiej w kościele św. Benona (tak tak :) ) koło Rynku Nowego Miasta - ul. Piesza 1, mały biały kościół ok. 30 m od Wisły. Msza łacińska o 13.30, ok. 14.30 po mszy dajemy koncert. Nie będzie on niestety długi, więc nie warto się spóźniać. :)

Za to utwory są niesztampowe i powinny się podobać, a i pogoda zapowiada się ładna, można więc będzie zrobić sobie udany spacer po. :) Wiem, ze amatorow takiej muzyki nie ma wielu - a szkoda, bo zdarzaja sie perelki. :)

Nieobecność rozumiem :), niemniej serdecznie zapraszam. :]

aegis maelstrom δ 19:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Taki spamming informacyjny uprawiam w sumie po raz pierwszy :) więc każdy feedback (zwłaszcza negatywny :]) będzie cenny.

Miło wiedzieć, że kogoś interesują takie rzeczy. :) I przepraszam, że tak późno - obecnie mam wikiurlop, garstkę czasu na poskładanie wielu spraw.

Pozdrowienia, aegis maelstrom δ 22:35, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

DYK

On June 25, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Book of Henryków, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Very interesting article! --BRIAN0918 20:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Central Lithuania

Don't you see, Halibutt, that aside from political controversy of these topics, the names of these two articles are nonsensical. Central Lithuania nowdays is somewhere around Kėdainiai town and area. The creators of Litwa Srodkowa were probably dreaming about restoring Grand Duchy of Lithuania which would be once more part of Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth (quite imperialistic desires, IHMO, if they thought this is the center, then the whole country had to spread from sea to other sea) The area of Litwa Srodkowa now includes South East part of Republic of Lithuania and Western part of People Republic of Belarus. You get people lost in time and space with these kind of names. Rename the article to "Republic of Litwa Srodkowa", and even most nationalist Lithuanians will have little to object to. Why do you translate the name of this republic to English? If translated to English, it should be written in quotes "Central Lithuania". For example if we translate Lithuania in English, it will be "Rain Country", "Country of Pouring water", and without quotes it has no sense.

Name of the article Ethnic composition of Central Lithuania is even a bigger nonsense. Ethnic composition of Kėdainiai district is quite different from presented in your article. I don't have the statistical data now at my hand, but I suppose it must be ~90% Lithuanian. There is nothing wrong with having several censuses in one article, but, if you include censuses that were performed after "Central Lithuania" ceased to exist, you cannot call it "of Central Lithuania". I suggest to call the article "Censuses in Vilnius area". "Ethnic composition" counting during times of represions and wars was inacurate, since people were afraid for their life and safety if they choose the "wrong" ethnicity. There is an excerpt from a book "History of Lithuania" by Lithuanian historian Zigmantas Kiaupa:"On January 8, 1922 elections were held under occupation conditions to the "Central Lithuanian" Sejm and officially 60 percent of voters took part. The elections were boycotted by Lithuanians, Jews and some Belorussians and a certain percentage had doubts over whether they should vote." Juraune 10:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Marienkirche

Which convention requires this church to be given an English name? Adam 16:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Because I want to know. Why is Notre Dame de Paris not at Our Lady of Paris? Why is Basilica of the Sacré Cœur not at Basilica of the Sacred Heart? Why is Berliner Dom not at Berlin Cathedral? Adam 17:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

DYK

On June 26, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Antoni Heda, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Cactus.man ✍ 19:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Re:tag-tagging

I would agree. The standard way to deal with such issues is to recommend the te,plate for deletion at WP:TFD with the same reasoning as you used on my talk page, and see what others think about it.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Your article creation on DYK

On June 29, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article 1st Lithuanian-Belarusian Infantry Division, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Kimchi.sg 04:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Lublin

I thought Dr. Dan admitted that his introduction of the Lithuanian name for Lublin some months ago was a WP:Point edit. Please don't put it back in, as there are no reasonable grounds for its inclusion. The Union of Lublin was important for Lithuania, but this is not a good enough reason to give a Lithuanian name for Lublin in the lead. Similarly, even though the Munich Agreement was quite important for Czechoslovakia, I do not see the Czech name for Munich in the lead of that article. Balcer 08:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I can only suggest that you only make edits you yourself believe in and support, and avoid making edits "by request" from others. If someone feels strongly about making some change, they can just do it themselves and then justify it. Balcer 08:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Balcer, to be clear. My introduction of the Lithuanian name for Lublin was not a WP:Point edit. After being told, over and over, it was important to educate and inform the English speaking readers of the Polish versions of Lithuanian cities' names, that these readers should have the same reverse opportunities. It seemed logical and fair, at least at the time. So yes, there may have been some comingling of proving a point, but that was not my exclusive reason. During the PLC, Cracow and Lublin, had special significance to Lithuanian history, as the first capital, and the city where the Union of Lublin took place.

And Halibutt, thanks for having the courtesy to make the addition. I think my addition of it, lasted a day or two. Yours, about 5 minutes. Got Wilno? Dr. Dan 15:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Dr. Dan. I made the revert in 5 minutes by sheer coincidence, as Halibutt made the change just before my morning Misplaced Pages watchlist check, which has become part of my daily routine. Don't make too much out of it.

Anyway, I reacted strongly because I recall very clearly we have reached a good agreement over the issue of Lithuanian name of Lublin, and you agreed with me that it should not be given. I am quite suprised that you are still arguing over this point. Balcer 17:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually Balcer, I am not still arguing about this point. And "our good agreement" seemed to be lasting with most of the editors in English WK. Halibutt tends to be the exception.(see Konstantinas Sirvydas article and talk). That article is not the only occaision, either. Usually it's done, wrapped up in an enigmatic, pseudo-intellectual, blather about "historical" usuage, and some further nonsense that Lithuanian geographical names were invented in 1918. The 5 minute coincidence, worked out nicely, just "the luck of the draw". I'm sure it wouldn't have been left in much longer in any case. BTW, I got an email asking me what "Got Wilno?" meant. Just a humorous parody of the American advertising slogan, "Got Milk?". Dr. Dan 17:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification over Lublin. As for your dispute with Halibutt, I must say that for me the proper naming of the city located at coordinates 54°41′N 25°17′E is a problem that is simply unresolvable within the framework of Misplaced Pages. So, I am not going to get involved in your dispute with Halibutt over that issue. Balcer 18:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Great! I got a good laugh from you using the coordinates 54 41'N 25 degrees 17'E. That might be the only way to call it! Dr. Dan 18:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Hallo

Hello! I made Michal Boym and Hans Boner, Brod (onomastics), Zuelz, etc. Can you expand the articles, or translate the onomastics articles?

by Szejnhertz, 04:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV - June 2006

The June 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Kirill Lokshin 05:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Polish football team kit

The meaning with the kit template is not to give the exact look of the kit down to manufacturer, club/FA badge, and barely visible relief (or what it would be called), but to give a correct but not very advanced info on how the kit looks "from the stands". The hussar may be nice as a picture of its own, but even if you intended to add arms, the feeling I get is still that it becomes a mishmash of details hard to really understand, "is the dress light grey or just dirty white?", "what's that tiny red spot on the shoulder?", "is there some kind of pattern in the grey?", and so on. I hope you understand what I mean and that I haven't upset you, but I still hope that you would refrain from re-adding it (maybe instead add only a single kit somewhere else in the article, see for example Arsenal F.C.). Best regards – Elisson • Talk 00:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I guess I upset you a little after all... WP:CIV still applies even if I reverted your two hours of work. And as said, you are still welcome to add the hussar kit as a standalone. My removal of the kit on the template page has an even simpler reason than the above, and that is because that page is a guide for others to see what kits they can use for teams, but the hussar kit is so specific that it would be useful for no other team except the Polish. – Elisson • Talk 11:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

You can still add the hussar kit as a standalone similar to the original Arsenal kit seen some a bit down on Arsenal F.C., which might be a nice thing, and that'll keep your work in the article even when the national team changes kits again (which most teams seem to do like every year or so...) Anyway, I don't think there should be any detail added to the kit, take a look at how FIFA has represented it on this drawing, the only red details are sponsors, numbers, badge, a thin red cuff, and some red inside the shirt. Also take a look at for example this or this photo and you might agree with me that the shirt of the kit is actually best represented as plain white, no matter how boring that may be. ;) – Elisson • Talk 12:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Try it out. :) I am not sure about the note though, as technically, the infobox kit is still correct, but just a simpler, more stylistic, variant. I think just a caption under the standalone saying that it is the WC 2006 kit with full detail added, or something, will do. – Elisson • Talk 12:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Catholic Insight

Halibutt,

Catholic Insight should really be removed as it states, incorrectly that Virchow was Jewish. In fact he was Protestant (I think Lutheran). The whole thrust of the Catholic Insight article is on a Jewish war against Catholicism and how among other things Judaism was responsible for events such as the Kulturkampf. I think Catholic Insight is a good guide for what some sedevacanctists believe, but not for this. That's why I'd prefer only one quote.

JASpencer 13:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh and mea culpa on not using the citation engine. JASpencer 13:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Your article, Michał Boym, was selected for DYK!

On July 2, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Michał Boym, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! ++Lar: t/c 15:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Templates for deletion

As you nominated Template:POV-because for deletion, you might also be interested in Misplaced Pages:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 June 29#Template:Disputeabout. I think they should both be deleted for pretty much the same reasons. — Jul. 4, '06 <freak|talk>

Viktor Suvorov and historical myths

Appearantly, we're not the only ones:D:

Most established historians argue that in such a situation Stalin had no alternative but to enter into a pact with Hitler instead. By way of example, A. J. P. Taylor (1906-90), the well-known English Professor of History, wrote: "It is difficult to see what other course Soviet Russia could have followed." He thinks the Ribbentrop-Pact was in the last resort anti-German: "It limited the German advance eastwards in case of war." Apparently Taylor thinks that the Germans would have taken Moscow if not the Pact had limited their penetration. The actual result of the Pact was, however, that Poland ceased to function as buffer in case of a German assault. A professorial chair at Oxford seems to be tantamount to a license to write sheer rubbish.

and

It granted that "if Soviet Russia had eventually to fight Hitler, the Western Powers would already be involved." Here Carr conveniently disregards the fact that both treaty parties were notorious breakers of treaties. None of them attached any importance to signatures on a piece of paper. Carr himself knew that the Pact did not prevent Hitler from attacking the Soviet Union in June 1941. How could the same Pact have prevented Hitler from attacking, let us say, in October 1939 as a direct continuation of the Poland campaign? The fact that he did not was of course due to quite other motives than any respect for a given word. in The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact provoked the outbreak of WW II. New evidence indicates Stalin as the architect of the Pact By Carl O. Nordling (). --Constanz - Talk 09:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Mediation

This user subpage is currently inactive and is retained for historical reference. If you want to revive discussion regarding the subject, you might try contacting the user in question or seeking broader input via a forum such as the village pump.

Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/OpenNote is deprecated. Please see User:MediationBot/Opened message instead.

Re: Mediation

Hi.

After numerous PAs by AndriyK and his absolute refusal to budge during the Mediation Cabal, I see no reason to reword my statement.

By the way, it is sad you did not participate further in the MedCab case :(

Best, Grafikm 13:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Update: OK, maybe "political agenda" was a bit ambigous, I changed it to "political considerations (i.e. on geopolitics and not on historical vocabulary)". best, Grafikm 13:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Muy estimado y bien recordado Halibutt:

Esta vez no tengo que molestarte por ningún bloqueo. Por el contrario, se trata de la página Voivodato, (voivodía o voivodia), que tu iniciaste en la es:wiki. Otros, antes que yo, la continuaron y añadieron dieciséis páginas más, correspondientes a la actual subdivisión territorial de Polonia.

Son esbozos, por el momento. Dos de ellas son sólo el título... Como es costumbre en todos los idiomas suelen adaptarse las palabras extranjeras. No siempre se consigue hacerlo felizmente. Querría conocer tu parecer respecto a que el voivodato de Lubusz pasó a llamarse LEBUS y no LUBUS, como parecería corresponder... Alguien convirtió a Lodz en Łódź, es decir lo volvió al polaco... etc.

Seguramente hay unas cuantas cosas más respecto a las cuales te gustaría opinar o lisa y llanamente: corregir. Me gustaría que lo hicieras, puesto que tú iniciaste esa página. (Por cierto, el Gran Diccionario Salvat ed.1992 dice que un “Voivoda” gobierna un Voivodato y no una voivodia ni una voivodía).

Notarás que retomé mi nombre original en castellano, en todas las wiki, por recomendación de la commons:wiki.

Tu amigo siempre, Gustavo. --Gustavo Szwedowski de Korwin 12:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Mauthausen-Gusen

Congrats again on the status and on seeing the article through to the main page. Quite a testament that you wrote an article on such a controversial and distasteful subject of enough quality and NPOV to earn the status. Staxringold _talk 01:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Spotkanie Wikipedystów na Uznam

Hi Halibutt, as you attended the Meeting of Wikipedians on the Isle of Usedom last year, I thought you might be interested to know that a similar meeting might happen this year. Right now, it's in the early planning phase. If you're interested, please check de:Misplaced Pages:Treffen der Wikipedianer auf Usedom and leave your mark together with a list of dates which you would prefer, and a list of dates for which you already know that you're unable to attend. In that way, we will try to find the best date in the next couple of days. Sincerely Yours, --Uwe 19:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC) PS: perhaps you can help to communicate this to the Polish Misplaced Pages?

Hello

Hello. Thank you for Jan Boner, Michal Boym, etc.

Can you translate the Polish parts in the pages of Pohl, Baum, Eichhorn (Eiche), etc.? (Category:Onomastics) --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 01:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Also

Hello! I made Johann Cornies, Chortitza articles. Do you know him? Can you expand their? See also Livshits, Bukszpan articles. --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 17:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

You won the battle....

....to get on the main page!

On 13 July, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Battle of Węgierska Górka, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Mgm| 09:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

T-34 for Featured Article

I think I have corrected or responded to all of the objections at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/T-34. User:Kirill Lokshin, who filed the first and most complete critique, has changed his vote to "support". I haven't followed every single objector's suggestion, so please have a look at the article and let me know if you would still like to see any changes, or if you are willing to give it support for FA. Thanks for the comments—the FA review has already resulted in some notable improvements to the article. —Michael Z. 2006-07-13 17:47 Z

Maps of Polish history

Hi Halibutt. I just noticed the dispute regarding the Polish maps on Commons, so this might be as good a time as any. If you create any further images of Poland and her neighbours during the 1660s, could I persuade you to fix a few minor errors first? 1) The island Saaremaa (Ösel / Øsel) in Estonia was Danish until 1645 but Swedish since then. 2) Skåne / Scania and Blekinge were part of Denmark until 1658, and Karlskrona (in modern Sweden) was not founded until 1680. It had no predecessor during the Danish period (the population of Christianopel in easternmost Blekinge was moved to the new town, so the latter is now a minor village). On a very minor note, Bornholm was Swedish 1658-1660 but Danish for all other periods. I know these are small matters, but your maps are of high quality and it is a pity to have minor details spoil an otherwise very good impression. Both Rzeczpospolita.png, Rzeczpospolita voivodships.png, and Rzeczpospolita Potop.png need fixing. Regards. Valentinian 18:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

1939 map of Poland

Great work! I am writing and article on the 31 August 1939 border incidents and I cannot locate Hochlinden (Stodolny) anywhere on any map. And, where is Chwallentzitz, particularly in relation to Hochlinden? Can you assist my search? Also, which map is accurate to the date of 31 August 1939 on the German-Silesien/Polish frontier? Many thanks Dennis Whitehead denniswhitehead@gmail.com

Email

Would you mind shooting me a note at <myusername>@gmail.com? Renata 14:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

About szlachta

Does Poland republic have a ruling class of Szlachta. The link polish points to "officially the Republic of Poland". I think there is a logical problem, you should take care of it, like disamiguing it to Kingdom of Poland (1385–1569) for example:)--Lokyz 19:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, here you go: according to Szlachta article someone might get impression, that Szlachta (pronounced: Image:Ltspkr.png ) was the noble class in Poland (link, that points to "officially the Republic of Poland,<...> is a country located in Central Europe. It is bordered by Germany to the west, the Czech Republic and Slovakia to the south, Ukraine and Belarus to the east, and the Baltic Sea, Lithuania, and Russia (in the form of the Kaliningrad Oblast exclave) to the north. ") and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which two countries jointly formed the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. it is really funny, don't you think. I do especially like Kaliningrad oblast BEFORE Commonwealth ever existed:)--Lokyz 21:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Poland-centered world view in English Misplaced Pages

Halibutt, you rewrote the article Laurynas Gucevičius that I started and worked hard to make it more complete. Your references and edits show your Poland-centered world view. Also, you made some mistakes that I should address with you personally first. You deleted the part of the article about his parents. There is a church baptismal records "babtisavi infantem n(omi)ne Laurentium patris Symoni Masulis et Matris Catharinae Masulowa de villa Migance", his mothers maiden name Žekonyte (Ziekonaycia). You confused his godmother Ona Baltušytė-Gucewicz with his stepmother Kotryna Tamošiūnaitė, and he wasn't an orphan, only his mother has died, not his father. You should have noticed how little his biography had to do with ethnical Poland. Stanisław Poniatowski, not a King, but his contemporary, called him Lithuanian architect as it is shown in monographs by Eduardas Budreika. Please leave Lithuanian people and especially Lithuanian children some heritage too. Is this your policy to deny that people that lived ethnical lands of Lithuania could be of Baltic-Lithuanian origin?

Second problem is with the Battle of Grunwald and the list of Lithuanian banners. Battles and military interests me the least, but since I stumbled on a mistake in the list, I looked in history book written in Lithuanian by Mečislovas Jučas, called "Žalgirio mūšis" (Battle of Grunwald), 1990. I have found different names mentioned in historical sources: Albertus alias Maniwid, Stanislai alias Czupurna, Kynsegail, Giedygowd, Astik Radywillonis, Rumbaud Sunygailonis, Joannis Nemyr, Simeon Lingwen, Sigismund, Iwan Zedewid, Gasztolt. Could you please cite your sources of that list?

Finally, you should wake up to the reality that it is a year 2006 already. Lithuania is no part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and the names of villages and cities in Polish are in many cases inapropriate and border with original research. Vilnius gives 6-11 million of internet counts, while your favorite Vilna only half a million, with Canadian village as one the first links. Juraune 15:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I'll add that to the article as soon as possible, I simply did not understand much of the original discussions of his surname's evolution. I admit I don't speak Lithuanian well, but from that article it seemed to me that most of the names mentioned there were Lithuanian reconstructions rather than actual names. Take for instance the case of Gucewicz's father: Latin must've fooled either you or the author a tad, as his father's name was apparently not Masulis but Masul (Simoni Masulis means of Simon Masul in Latin), and his wife's name suggests just that. Masulowa has a typical Polish name ending; -owa is added to signify that the person is someone's wife, much like -yte or -aite in Lithuanian, -ova in Czech and so on. //Halibutt 15:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do not edit your mistakes, since you constructs of Lithuanian words, toponyms and surnames is based on logic, and this practice in linguistics is called 'amateurish'. You would laugh at somebody not Polish and not being a linguist trying to reconstruct Polish names, so please understand, that for a native speaker of Lithuanian Masulis reconstructed to Masul is ridiculous. Since I speak Russian, there is no need to explain to me -owa meaning, while you do not know that -ienė was an indication of wife in Lithuanian (in modern times (21 century)this practice is changing too. Do not edit something that you do not understand. Adding typical Polish endings in records are not indication of people being ethnical Poles. Juraune 17:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

As to the battle of Žalgiris - I don't really understand what does your list refer to. Is it some list of banner names? Or some notable people? Please elaborate on that. My source for the banner list (and the banner table) was mostly the book by Steponas Kucinskas (mentioned in the references), with excellent illustrations by Simonas Kobylinskas. I have it on my bookshelf and some time ago I decided to make some use of it. They listed the banners and their commanders the way I put them in the table. I guess their work was in turn based on the work of Ioannesas Longinusas, also mentioned in the references. //Halibutt 15:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do not Lituanise the names of Polish authors, I have enough intelligence to understand what you are refering to. I will answer on this one later, since really do not have now for battle histories. Juraune 17:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

As to the name problem - I understand your desire to pretend that Vilnius has always been a Lithuanian city and it was the vile Poles to occupy it. However, it was not that way in the real life. Calling the place with a modern name, when referring to historical times is like calling the battle of Stalingradas with the modern name of that town. I prefer the Polish name of that town, as it was used by the huge majority of its inhabitants between middle ages and 1945, but as a gesture of good will and a way to reach some compromise I use the neutral name of Vilna, which was the common English name for that town until relatively recently. If you don't like the English name we could stick to the Polish one, but I doubt that's what you really want. That's about it when referring to your wake up remark. Wake up yourself. //Halibutt 16:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do not Lituanise the names of non Lithuanian localities for me also, I do not have the problem of understanding what Volgograd is and what is the Staliningrad battle. I also have no problem whatsoever in understanding that Vilnius has not always been a Lithuanian city and do not think in categories of 'vile' nationalities. You cannot talk about the history of this city in general, without regard of age, everything is changing and floating in real life. Since the times of Gediminas it wasn't one nationality or culture city. Lithuanians, Ruthenians, Germans, Jews, Tartars and Karaite, Polish, Swedish lived there. Before the written history of Vilnius, it has been a Baltic settelment for many centuries, that what sciences of archeology and anthropology can prove. To go even deeper into the ages B.C., Finno-Ugric people lived in the area. I am prepared to discuss with you this matter futher, so that you also could review your theories about Vilnius. Juraune 17:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)a

Halibutt, I see you bringing up again and again a straw man fallacy with the Battle of Stalingrad issue (totally unrelated as the city was actually renamed unlike the others and this was explained to you so many times that I already lost count). Please do not attempt to justify the name's Polonization, that became a solid part of your editing style, with the same false arguments. This has been discussed and not once (see here for instance) but nothing can be done I guess with your continuing to persist except scrupulously correcting you inside the articles. Or is it?

Perhaps the problem is indeed in what Juranune called this section a "Poland-centered world view" and some editors' forgetting that this is not pl-wiki. We could spend much more time on the actual content of the articles if you were not persisting so stubbornly with Polish or Polonized names all the time. I kept your Nowochwastów, Komarów, Mironówka and Wasylkowce and others in PSW series on purpose until that series is brought to overall NPOV normalcy, since this sticks out warning the potential readers of what to expect from the rest. Your articles look much more credible if they use the internationally accepted terminology. Please think it over one more time. --Irpen 18:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Um, speaking up in Halibutt's defense here, and not knowing anything about the article in particular that you're discussing, I still can confidently state that in the majority of Poland-related articles where I've seen him offer an opinion in polls, he usually votes for English/Latinized names, over Polish. --Elonka 19:08, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I am talking about placenames (towns and villages) not the personal names (like of the monarchs) and also, mostly, about the usage within articles and not the article's titles. --Irpen 19:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Recently Halibutt in Talk:Antanas Baranauskas announced, that he will be not wasting any more time for discussions, and will do the way he will be pleased. Let me cite: "All right, I'm tired of this endless discussion. Next time I will simply revert or add what I consider important and ignore the talk page. That would be easier and less time-consuming." Such an attitude disencourages to participate completely, because all arguments and references to recent research is ignored completely, because Halibutt discards them, showing his own exercises in ametuerish linguistic.--Lokyz 20:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Lokyz, and I thought you'd be pleased to see that I simply ended the discussion instead of reporting you for violation of civility... But now stating loudly and clearly that I won't accept any more offences is an argument against me myself, right? //Halibutt 03:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

If you think that questions you cannot answer is insult, then report me. This tactics is used wide in Misplaced Pages, as I can see.--Lokyz 09:28, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Finally, you should wake up to the reality that it is a year 2006 already. Lithuania is no part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and the names of villages and cities in Polish are in many cases inapropriate and border with original research.

Well said. If Halibutt woke up, he would discover than the Battle of Gruenwald was won by the Russians from Smolensk and that neither Lvov nor Minsk are parts of Poland, as well. But this is possible only in sci-fi world. In the HaliLand even Chernigov, Pskov and Smolensk still (and will always) belong to Poland. --Ghirla 07:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Ghirla, please stop your personal attacks.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Piotrus, please, if that's a personal attack rather than a humourous retort, I'll be hearing confessions on Saturday and performing brit milahs on Monday. Dr. Dan 22:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Lokyz, let me quote the questions I couldn't answer then:

1. So much of the Polish spirit, and that's why your arguments make some people angry (and that's why Poles aren't very popular in Lithuania until nowadys)
2. I did call you nationalist because you're mixing few things - modern Polish nationality, modern Lithuanian nationality and Commonwealths nationalities e.g. "Litwiny" and "Koroniarze", and are applying the same Poland link. IMO you'e using modern approach.
3. Of cpourse it is easy - especially when you think, that Samogitians used Polish name for their city (which I never said nor suggested, so it's your invention, pure and simple)
4. Or dpo you think, that Warniai is a Polish word? Or do you think Lithuanian people were stupid enough not to know how to call theyr town? (and do you think the earth is flat? And when did you stop beating your wife?)
5. Or you just don't know where Varniai are located? (yeah, I'm an idiot)
6. Lithuanian accademical research would answer your question, or you need a speciffical GrandPolish reference? (why bother, I read Sienkiewiczius and that's enough for me)
7. As for accusation: I did not acuse you, I've just followinf your way of action. (really?)
8. Or is Sienkiewicz your only one source of knowledge about history? (you see?)
9. you assume he was Polish - and let me note - ONLY you. even most of Polish encyclopedias speak about him as Lithuanian. (this remark was added after I specifically stated twice that I agree he was Lithuanian)
10. As for you ignorance of talk page, please cite or I'll revert you. (humm...)
11. Because I've just learned a way of acting for a grown up editor. (then why bother posting such comments at my talk page?)
12. As for Baranauskas Polishness - well, I do not think you a have at least one reference, where it would be said "he was polish", unless you wil; wite it yourself. (and this again added after I stated for the third or fourth time that I believe he was Lithuanian)
13. Well. I do call you nationalist because you're using modern nationalistic understanding of notional indentity in times, when there was no mention of it:) (which is a complete absurd and slander)
14. anyway you chose to ignore this, so it looks like the fun is to begin, because you've run out of arguments and now yuo will try to push your bias:) (apparently, my dear. I can't prove to you I'm not a camel, especially that you continue the discussion not with my arguments, but with what you think they are)

No, I chose to ignore it specifically because you don't listen to my arguments and prefer to discuss with your own arguments you put in my mouth. I never said the guy was not Lithuanian, yet that's what you repeat over and over again. I never applied the modern view on nationalities in the article (and it was you to do just that, as I pointed out in the talk page), yet you call me names. If all of the above are questions I can't answer, then you are entitled to satisfaction. Really, you should be happy as I'm a perfect proof that slander goes unpunished in wikipedia. //Halibutt 03:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

But did say that he wasn't Lithuanian. Juraune 20:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I must agree, when taken out of context tehy sound trully awfull:) I will not cite all your statement, just one: "Right... So a guy who wrote some poems in Lithuanian is automatically a Lithuanian, right? Err... wrong, my dear." I love this one line very much becase it is a Himalay of political corectness and collaborative spirit. You know, peple say - you call them, and they gonna respond in the same way.

As for any assuming, well - I didn't assume anything. I just asked you qestions, to make sure you know the subject - and you didn't answer me. So I thought you just don't know answers.

As for for citation of your refusal to discuss issues: I wouldn't havee raised this question, if not your alteration of Gucevičius article just another day of this your announcement. It seemed related to me, also I just wanted to point everyone's attention to change of your attitude.--Lokyz 10:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That sounds truly awful even within the context, it's simply a great example of incivility and lack of netiquette. You asked me whether I'm a moron and now you're puzzled why didn't I answer that. That's below my dignity, dear. I don't take part in disputes I have no idea on what are they about and that should be pretty clear to you after all of my arguments. And I also already explained the some poems in Lithuanian thingie at least twice, too bad you hadn't noticed that. Perhaps you could at times read the talk pages you post your slander on?

I'm still all for the original version of Polish-Lithuanian, too bad you did not agree to that and revert constantly to associate that guy with Lithuania only, as if he was born in 1992. Why am I replying to your accusations anyway? //Halibutt 11:42, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Shame on you, Halibutt, for adding Gucevičius article on your list of articles that you are proud of. I said what I wanted about this article before. Juraune 09:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Semper Fidelis

Witaj,

W hasle Semper Fidelis hest bledna informacja: In the 1990s the words along with Mortui sunt ut liberi vivamus (Latin for They died for us to live free) were a subject of a Polish-Ukrainian controversy regarding the restoration of a Polish military cemetery desecrated by the Soviets in L'viv. Czy moglbys poprawic ja (lub usunac) aby byla zgodna z informacja w hasle http://pl.wikipedia.org/Cmentarz_Orląt? - kontrowersje dotyczyly bowiem napisu na centralnie usytuowanej Mogile Pięciu Nieznanych z Persenkówki. Nie czuje sie na tyle silny w angielskim, by zrobic to dobrze, stad prosba do Ciebie.
Pozdrawiam Stako 09:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Galizisches_Infantrie_Regiment

Hi Halibutt,

I have nominated that article for deletion. See here. Greetings, Krankman 10:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Misza13's pile!

Thank you for contributing the impressive the pile of supports gathered on my RfA, which passed with a final tally of 0x0104/0x01/0x00. I'm happy that so many people have put faith in my abilities as an admin and promise to use the tools wisely and do my best not to let you down. If I ever may be of assistance, just leave a note on my talk page. Misza13, the rouge-on-demand admin wishes you happy editing! NOTE: This message has been encrypted with the sophisticated ROT-26 algorithm. Ability to decipher it indicates a properly functioning optical sensor array.

Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue V - July 2006

The July 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

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Szablon "Halibutt Copyright" zgłoszony do usunięcia

Odwiedź swoją dyskusję na Commons. 62.233.129.226 10:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Problem malutki

Witam tu Tymek 17:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC) Mam maly problem pracuje nad artykulem o futbolu w Polsce miedzywojennej i nie moge doklejac dalszych czesci gdyz otrzymuje informacje ze text zajmuje zbyt duzo jestem w roku 1936 i chcialbym to skonczyc jakos oto wzmiankowany artykul

http://en.wikipedia.org/Polish_soccer_%28football%29_in_interwar_period

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Image:Polska_kontur_bialy.png

Hi,

I was wondering if you would be willing to license this image under the CC-by-SA 1.0 license so that I can make some location maps for Polish cities and voivodships and use them on Wikitravel. Thanks for considering! -- Wikitravel Sapphire 20:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem for us Wikitravellers is that we are only permitted to upload images that are CC-by-SA 1.0 or outright public domain. So from your message it is okay to relicense them under CC-by-SA 1.0? I'd of course make a note describing the other licenses. Thanks, again. -- Wikitravel Sapphire 04:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

futbol

witam tutaj Tymek 03:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

dzieki za odpowiedz na pytanie, moze problem wystepuje dlatego, ze pracuje na McIntoshu?

a co do drugiej czesci Twojej wypowiedzi, czyli kwestii o ktore sie nie pytalem:

- wiem o tym, ze okres prehistorii polskiego futbolu zostal przez Ciebie juz opisany. Widzialem ten artykul. Moj tekst natomiast nie traktuje o prehistorii lecz o okresie 1918-39,

- co do owej rzekomej gigantycznej przewagi - coz - nie spodziewalem sie, ze bedziesz (jako czlowiek inteligentny jak sadze) wydawal sady wartosciujace. Co do Twojego artykulu to jest dobry, ale skoro czepiasz sie mojego to skresle tez swa ocene Twego (choc zazwyczaj jestem daleki od oceniania innych, uwazam ze powinnismy wspolpracowac a nie krytykowac sie nawzajem). Otoz uwazam, ze opieranie sie na sympatycznych skadinad gawedziarzach-fantastach jak Leszek Mazan raczej dobrym pomyslem nie jest. Ale pisze to tylko sprowokowany Twa wiadomoscia.Poza tym - PZPN zalozono w Warszawie, a wsrod najstarszych polskich klubow jest cala masa klubow z zaboru austriackiego, ktor pominales. Pominales takze kluby i wydarzenia w zaborach pruskim i rosyjskim, a tam tez sporo sie dzialo.

- zrodla oczywiscie beda ale najpierw musze skonczyc artykul,

- soccer - coz - chce uniknac stosowania podwojnego nazewnictwa i nie chce,by komukolwiek mylilo sie z futbolem amerykanskim. Amerykanie problemu z tym nie maja najmniejszego,

- oba artykulu nie traktuja o tym samym, poniewaz 95 proc Twojego obejmuje czasy przed rokiem 1918, ja natomiast pisze o latach pozniejszych.

Symon Masulis

This is interesting. Patris and matris are clearly in the genitive; but Masulowa cannot be a genitive, and Masulis can only be a genitive if it is of the third declension -- but if that's the case, it could also be a nominative. Masulowa, since vowel quantity is not marked, could either be a nominative of the first declension or an ablative. Laurentium is the accusative of Laurentius (Sanctis Laurentius).

Is there a Polish surname Masul or maybe Masuł or Masow - something like that? It almost looks like the priest didn't bother trying to Latinize the Polish surnames, just the parents' Christian names, which already had an accepted Latin form and could be declined correctly.

Laurentium is clearly an accusative in apposition with infantem, nomine is an ablative of description. Symoni is problematic to analyze as a genitive, because Simon is usually declined on the pattern of nomen, nominis; thus Symoni, it would have to be a dative or ablative of the third declension (unless the priest was trying to make it a second declension masculine noun "Symonus"). If the dative was intended then, I would lean toward interpreting Catherinae as a dative too, not a genitive. And it makes sense for this to be a dative: a dative of possesion was the preferred manner of telling the name in early Classical Latin. My Allen & Greenough grammar tells me that "...Cicero prefers the nominative, Livy the dative; Sallust uses the dative only."

Did our parish priest happen to sign his name "Parasallustus?" Actually, if this is a standardized formula, it was probably drawn up at the diocesan or synodal level by an overeducated, classicizng snob who can't get a date with a girl and then filled in by a parish priest of more modest abilities -- that would explain his shying away from Latinizing the surnames. If I had been the priest, I would have put something like S. MASSOVLOVVS and C. MASSOVLOVVS. Doesn't that look like a nice Latinized Greek name? And the small caps are much more Roman-looking. And it could have been written dictated to an Egyptian slave, who would employ a brush and papyrus scroll, or maybe a stylus and wax tablet...oh, sorry, back to the task at hand.

So, in light of all that, my translation (and keep in mind, this is free, and you get what you pay for) is: "I did baptise the infant Wawrzyniec by name, of father Symon Masul (by name) and mother Katarzyna Masulowa (by name)." (Sorry, I can't translate that into good Polish, but at least I Polonized the names :D).

Baczynski

Hello. I noticed your comments on list of Polish Jews referring to Kryzsztof Kamil Baczynski and I agree with you. A user keeps adding Baczynski to the list using this source as evidence. The source simply states that the Polish government for some reason or another tried to hide the fact that Baczynski's mother was of Jewish ancestry. The author, Filipowicz, sites Jozef Lewandowski, Szklo bolesne, obraz dni... Eseje nieprzedawnione (1991) as her source. That source in turn says that Baczynski's mother may have had Jewish ancestors. Exactly, what Pole at that time didn't have some Jewish ancestry? The source continue by saying that Baczynski didn't identify as a Jew. Then this source says Krzysztof was baptised Christian: . Given this, I would appreciate if you can help me in my endeavour to remove Baczynski. 70.146.75.123 15:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Just a note

Zagłosowałeś dwa razy --SylwiaS | talk 05:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Canon de 75 modele 1897 Schneider

Since you created this article, would you consider renaming it so it does not conflict with Canon de 75 modèle 1897? Moving it to Armata 75 mm wz. 1897 Schneider could be one option. The article could then be expanded to focus on the Polish use of this famous French gun.

As a side note, you may find this gallery on Commons interesting. Balcer 11:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

RE

Halibutt, what was the point of posting that on my talk page? Are you upset I discovered your second vote or something? But seriously, aren't you sick of all this aggravation? Surely, there is more to life that obsessing over a name? Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 12:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Ogorek kiszony

Q/A moved to Talk:Polish style pickled cucumber, where it belongs, since clearly other editors may have other opinions. As you may gess, I am not an expert of Polish cuisine, but I had reason for my move. Mukadderat 15:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Please don't forget to announce new articles

Aleksander Gabszewicz, ORP Arctowski, and what have I missed in the past few weeks?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

AWB

Is that a backhanded way of saying, "Thank you for all the dozens of hours of work that you put into fixing these things that no one else wanted to take the time to fix?" In that case, "You're welcome."  :) And yes, that's a good idea about setting the "minor" flag. --Elonka 17:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

your message

Would the situation change if it was, say, me or Piotrus to post the links here? Would they be any more or any less offensive? Come on... //Halibutt 21:08, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean. Well, Mr. Veteran IP wasn't giving me any impressive diffs, he was just rambling at me about drops and buckets. I was saying that I had not seen diffs that show behaviour unambiguously deserving a block. I do not claim that I have seen everything related to this case, but I am sure that if there were any 'worse' diffs, they would have been posted to AN/I in giant letters, so I tend to assume that this was all a big over-excited hubbub about very little. dab (ᛏ) 21:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Vodka

Hi Halibutt, you've contributed to the Vodka article before. Would you take a look at my recent removal of a modifier-laden passage (by Mikkalai), which has been in the article for four months (I regret not noticing it in previous minor edits), asserting a Russian urban legend about how the Poles and the West tried to prevent the USSR from marketing vodka. I fear it will be immediately reinserted without discussion. Regards,  ProhibitOnions  10:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Answer

Hi there. I noticed that at the talk page you signed your name under my comments and changed most of them, adding what I never said. Could you be so kind as to move your comments below? I replied to Calgacus' points in points so that it would be easier to respond and follow the discussion. Your action spoiled the entire plan and it's currently impossible to distinguish who said what - and which point does the person refer to. Thanks in advance. //Halibutt 19:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't change any of your comments, just added my comments under your comments. We are not discussing 'Calgacus' points', we are discussing article about Jogaila. Juraune 19:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Image:Polishogskolan.jpg

I found this above image on RandomImage patrol. I wonder if you or the other Polish editors have a use for this image? If not, I will arrange to have it deleted for being an unused fiar use image. Thanks. User:Zscout370 02:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Just wondering...

What is this bullshit??? --Adamrush 23:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sad

Thanks for your message as to our inner-Western discussion on the Polish. But I think it's sad, that you are not a Roman Catholic. Probably due to the ever increasing leftist "intellectual" tendency among modern Polish? (While those in the west are increasingly rejecting the neo-leftist tendency and political correctness and anti-religiosity, you seem to absorb it in Poland.) Do you live in a "recovered" territory or have you ever? Smith2006 09:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Reply re generalizations

Hello, Halibutt. How are you?

When I was in Poland I was told – by the president of Unimil, of all things – that Poland was 94 percent Catholic. Is this not the case?

I'm sure there are all sorts of Catholics in Poland, as elsewhere. But generally my impression was and is that the Polish RC Church is one of the most conservative doctrinally. I agree that "for centuries the church was the only all-national institution that was allowed to exist - and was crucial in preserving the Polish culture." I read about this somewhere in the context of the Church being a repository for the Polish sense of national identity, since the state was highly variable over the centuries. And I do think that those Poles who are very strongly nationalist or, if you prefer, patriotic, have an almost mystical passion about it, as some and possibly many Poles do about religion. (The same can be said of not a few Americans being simultaneously nationalistic and fanatically religious, but usually they aren't RC.)

Of course there are Poles who are moderate in their views. But this whole discussion started out as an explanation of why the squabble over German place-names still is going on here on Wiki. Please note that in the beginning I said, "the explanation I've heard from others" (italics added). By "others" I mean some other Wikipedians in the past. The thoughts above are an attempt to find a rational explanation for what seems to me to be an irrational phenomenon. If I've over-generalized, I'm only expressing what I've read and experienced. It seems to me that if there were nothing unusually nationalistic about Poles in general – that is, not all Poles, but many and perhaps most Poles – then we wouldn't be having these discussions on Wiki. And also, certain Polish politicians wouldn't occasionally raise the spurious specter of German revanchism – or at least "revisionism" – 60 years and three generations after the Third Reich, which shall forever remain a cause for collective shame among Germans.

PS: I thought you were Jewish?

Sca 16:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

To Smith2006 and Halibutt: Thank you both for your interesting comments. Of course I fully endorse the thought that one may be Jewish and Polish, Jewish and German (as many of the initial Jewish victims of the Nazis thought they were), Jewish and American, etc. What I meant was, I had the impression from what Halibutt said previously that whatever religious identity he had centered on being Jewish; I certainly did not mean that he was somehow not Polish in an ethnic, cultural or political (nationality) sense.

BTW, and I know this may sound like a cliché, but my best friend, whose last name is Etlinger, is Jewish, though not religiously so. Also, my long-time doctor, whose last name is Schneider, in whom I have confided much of a personal nature, is Jewish.

Mazel tov.

Sca 16:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

extermination through labour

you must first prove that it is indeed slander before I even think of removing it.

--Jadger 19:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

not really a shameless lie, as I seem to remember removing some sentences from an article because they were obviously false (not to mention unreferenced) and stated so, then you reverted my edit and said I cant remove it without providing a reference or a link to the contrary. So Halibutt, we will do the same here, you must provide a link or reference to show that you have not done that before I remove my "slanderous" remarks.

--Jadger 16:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

well, two can play that game, but I will not be immature like you and provide a link to wikipedia mainpage and say that it never mentions anything about atrocities then remove all your mentionings of them in articles, I actually have a head on my shoulders and am mature.

--Jadger 23:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

LMAO, your English seems to be seriously deteriorating recently, previously before we got in an argument you seemed relatively knowledgeable and very competent in your english skills, now you seem to mistake what people say. for instance, I was simply mimicing your response when I removed unreferenced controversial points in an article. But you did not see me giving those same fake links when you asked me for links to prove that your uncited claims that certain German divisions committed atrocites were wrong. notably on the German 17th Infantry Division page: "If that is false - please be so kind as to provide some source to state clearly that...". Why do certain rules only apply when they work to your advantage, but they don't matter when they're in your way.

I am focusing on my own problems, and my own problem rite now is your POV pushing.

--Jadger 03:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you would be civil, or else I will not continue this discussion.

--Jadger 20:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

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region "de facto/de jure"

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Abkhazia&diff=69407338&oldid=69375909 I think that this region which is not a state is not recognized by any other country. Is it true? --Georgianis 16:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course I fully endorse the thought that the region is "strongly supported by Russia, both military and political support"--Georgianis 16:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

You don't even bother to answer.--Georgianis 07:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Usedom Meeting

Dear Halibutt, please check de:Misplaced Pages:Treffen der Wikipedianer auf Usedom. There is now a list of three weekends - August 25-27, September 1-3 and September 8-10. For each of these weekends I try to get a list of people who would like to attend. Please leave your signature for those weekend(s) which you would prefer. Of course, it's okay to put your signature for either one, two oder all three alternatives. I will then try to rent the place for the weekend which receives the most "votes". Costs (around six Euro per night) and other conditions are essentially the same as last year. Hope to see you! --Uwe 20:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Requesting permission for using your maps of Warsaw districts on Wikitravel

Czy zgodziłbyś się na wykorzystanie Twoich map dzielnic w artykule o Warszawie na angielskiej Wikitravel?

Właśnie skończyłem poprawiać tekst w tym artykule; znalazłem też trochę zdjęć, które ktoś wcześniej nagrał ale były nieużywane. Brakuje tylko map a one by się bardzo przydały, bo potem powstają takie kwiatki jak Botanical Garden - next to Łazienki, in Ursynów :)

212.186.80.57 16:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Wikitravel:User:CandleWithHare

Super. Tak, chodzi o CC-BY, z ShareAlike albo bez, wersja 1.0, 2.0 albo 2.5 (jest też do wyboru dual z GFDL) - nie bardzo się wyznaję na tych licencjach nie wiem czy to, co piszę, ma sens :)

A gdybyś jeszcze mógł sam to wgrać (zauważyłem, że masz tam konto), żeby nie było wątpliwości że jest to z Twoją zgodą. Jeśli nie to też dobrze, tylko może napisz tu że się zgadzasz po angielsku i potem przy u/l podam odsyłacz do tej strony - nie znam się i nie wiem czy jest jakaś standardowa procedura uzyskiwania zgody, jeśli coś źle mówię to popraw.

Dzięki.

212.186.80.57 18:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Wikitravel:User:CandleWithHare

Chętnie podam maila tylko, wybacz głupie pytanie: jak mam to zrobić żeby nie został na później dla spamerów? 212.186.80.57 19:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Wikitravel:User:CandleWithHare

Dobra, nie będę ortodoksyjny (ale potem go skasuję): ### (skasowany :) 212.186.80.57 19:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Wikitravel:User:CandleWithHare

Flag of Poland

Hi, Halibutt. I answered your question on Talk:Flag of Poland. Kpalion 19:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Communism in Poland

This is in response to your remarks to me on the talk page of the 17th German Infantry Division. Your remarks paraphrased rather exactly:

BTW, did you like the Communist cuisine in Communist Poland? And how about our Communist girls? I assure you there's nothing like a Communist schabowy in a Communist restaurant - provided they didn't turn off the Communist electricity so that you could (sic) listen to Communist hits on the radio.

Well now, how to respond to all of these questions. For some backround, I should state, for those who are unaware, that I'm a U.S. citizen, born in the U.S.A., who lived, and studied in communist Poland. You drogi Halibutt, were born after that criminality was on the ropes and the writing of that inevitable fact was on the wall. Your perspective is somewhat tainted by the fact that you probably had many relatives that held prominent positions in the PZPR (please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that I am). For most people, communist schabowy was a rarity (at the end of my studies, my ration card allowed for four pounds of meat {2 kilos} a month). One bar of soap was alloted per person a month (this was in the 1980's not WWII). As for communist girls, more Polish girls that I met hated the system as much as the rest of the Polish Nation did. If you want to know something more about communist girls check out Rosa Luxembourg or Krupskaya, if none of your relatives fit the bill. Regarding the electricity, they did't turn it off so you would miss the communist "hits", but it often failed on it's own, and it could cause you to miss recording some of the non-communist "hits" that were more popular in Poland. Towards the end of my stay, there were anti-communist broadcasts being beamed from roof tops by clandestine radio transmitters. I personally witnessed the dramatic uprising of the Polish Nation and their throwing off the yoke of this very criminal system. Don't kid yourself listening to some nostagia from the "Red Bourgeosie", of what it was. And please don't refer to it as an Independent Country (as you did), because both you and Gerald Ford (he got into trouble making that stupid remark), were wrong about that. Dr. Dan 05:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)