Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:06, 20 January 2016

Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}. Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following: All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction. The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may: ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email. Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template. A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted. Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies: The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and: the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or the restriction was an indefinite block. A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction: a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE, a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN, a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA. Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped. Standard of review On community review Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption. On Arbitration Committee review Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action. The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction. This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator. Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state: Appeals by sanctioned editors Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org). Modifications by administrators No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below). Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes: For a request to succeed, either (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue. Information for administrators processing requests Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give. A couple of reminders: Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request. When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X". Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it. More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated. Closing a thread: Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days. Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct. You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages. Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log. Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Dicklyon and Darkfrog24

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Dicklyon and Darkfrog24

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

RGloucester (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:40, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Users against whom enforcement is requested

Dicklyon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
Darkfrog24 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#Discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Too many diffs to count. Simply look at the edit history of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Manual of Style/External support. Edit-warring has been going on between these two users for more than a week, filling that edit history with nothing but reverts. Also see Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Register, where a similar situation has arisen.

• See also this user page discussion on Darkfrog24's talk page and this user page discussion on Dicklyon's talk page. The dispute has clearly been personalised, with accusations of "lying" going back and forth.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Standard DS notice received by Dicklyon (March 2015)
• Standard DS notice received by Darkfrog24 (September 2015)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Back on 18 December, a user requested clarification on the MoS talk page about the quotation style used by Misplaced Pages. This discussion started out collegial, but has blown up into a protracted dispute between two users across many pages. Darkfrog24 and Dicklyon have been edit-warring constantly on the two MoS subpages linked above for more than a week, after discussion at the main page resulted in a stalemate. I haven't even bothered to provide diffs, because the edit history of those two pages consist only of reverts made by either user. WP:3RR has long since passed. Both users are aware of the MoS DS, and this type of behaviour should not be allowed to continue. I would suggest that some action is taken against both parties to the dispute, as other editors who participated in the civil discussion at WT:MOS had no trouble avoiding this type of edit-warring, which is exactly what the MoS case remedies (see remedy 1.2) were meant to stop. Both parties are veterans of MoS disputes. How long does this type of thing have to go on in little watched pages before someone does something about it? RGloucester — ☎ 18:40, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Addendum – I strongly reject any accusations of being a "provocateur". I was involved in the discussion at the MoS talk page before Mr Lyon was even capable of commenting there, and had been following it as such. Whilst I ceased my participation as I saw that the discussion was becoming fertile ground for conflict, I also saw this continued edit-warring and pointless bickering occurring across multiple pages, with no one to stop it. The two editors in question here are both aware of remedy 1.2, which I mentioned above, which establishes a process whereby changes should occur after consensus is gained on the talk page, not by a process of edits and reversion. I don't understand how I can be at fault for bringing to light behaviour that is directly contrary to the remedies established in the arbitration case. If no one cares about this disruption in little known pages in the project space, fine. That doesn't mean that editors should be able to get away with disruptive behaviour of this sort, which is likely to spill back into more well-known pages eventually. As far as my personal reading on the matter, I tend to agree with SmC and Mr Lyon on the topic matter of this dispute. That doesn't excuse the nature of what is going on, here, again. If no administrative action is taken here, this dispute will continue repeat itself. This is not the first time it has blown up. There are cycles, and until someone stops that cycle, this disruption will continue. This has been the problem with AE for as long as I've been familiar with it. Parties in a dispute, on whatever side, are well aware of the nature of the "boomerang", and will band together against any sort of sanction for any party, because they know both sides are at fault. However, once the dispute is gone from AE and some time has passed, edit-warring begins again. Stop the cycle. RGloucester — ☎ 19:39, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Despite what Darkfrog24 suggests below, it seems that the dispute has merely moved to a page in the article space. I would suggest a three month topic ban from quotation styles, as suggested by JzG below. The evidence provided by SmC makes the need for this even more compelling. I tend to agree with him that Mr Lyon's behaviour has been less problematic here, and that Darkfrog24 has an apparently long history of involvement in this issue that I had not been aware of. RGloucester — ☎ 18:48, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Notification of Dicklyon
• Notification of Darkfrog24

Discussion concerning Dicklyon and Darkfrog24

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Dicklyon

Neither of us has editted Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Register for nearly a week. We have confined our edit war to a stupid subpage (Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Manual of Style/External support) that nobody cares about; not clear why RGloucester thought that to be worth stalking and complaining about. Anyway, as long as the Dark Frog keeps saying that the MOS requires British style, I keep reverting, to the version that acknowledges that the style our MOS recommends, "logical style", is called "British style" by some sources. And I keep adding more sources of "support" for the MOS, as that's what the page says it's about.

If people would prefer to see us stop this, I would be happy to see a ban of any term, hopefully indef, on either of us editing this page. I'd go further and propose it for deletion at MfD, as it's just the DF's place to collect anti-MOS info, trying to set up WP:LQ to be an ENGVAR issue, which it is not. The sources are all clear on this style correlating more with region (American/Canada vs the rest of the world), as opposed to any tie to dialect. The sources I've been adding make it clear that many, or most as one source admits, Americans prefer the logical style; I acknowledge that the dark frog does not. Note that the page is essentially empty except for the one section Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Manual_of_Style/External_support#Punctuation_inside_or_outside which was filled in by the DF as part of her campaign against LQ. It is inappropriate for her to be doing this (and yes, I admit it's inappropriate for me to be edit warring, too, but I honestly didn't think anyone would notice or care about this venue).

The closest thing to an accusation of lying was in my edit summary phrase "that's your lie" in this edit. I regret that I expressed it thus. I could have said "that's your interpretation"; anyway, no reason she should be including a controversial interpret of a source that way.

As for the so-called 3RR accusation, I don't think we've seen 3 or more edit cycles in any day. Methinks this is just RGloucester resurrecting his grudge. I have done my best to not interact with him, but he makes it hard now. Dicklyon (talk) 03:19, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Note that below DF claims to have shown "sources that explicitly state that the practice required by Misplaced Pages's MoS is British". This is twisted. These sources do not mention "the practice required by Misplaced Pages's MoS"; this is her over-interpretation and misrepresentation; reading more closely often shows that what they call British is actually not quite the same as the logical style that our MOS advocates. Dicklyon (talk) 04:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

(Following comment is a response to Newyorkbrad. It was moved by RGloucester.)

I already said I'd be up for any mutual restriction there. Dicklyon (talk) 22:26, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Darkfrog24

This complaint is an overreaction. As the edits themselves show, this isn't a straight revert-and-revert situation. Dicklyon and I are triangulating our way toward a version that we can both live with. We've both been compromising and giving way to the other here and there. He stopped removing the Chicago Manual of Style from the page after I took it to the talk page and gave a good reason why he should do so (see first paragraph at this link ). I didn't remove the ABA reference even though I don't think it's necessary. There are a few points on which I think he's flat-out wrong and I'm confident he feels the same way, but this is a work in progress, not a stalemate.

A few factual corrections to RG's report: There haven't been accusations of lying "back and forth." Dicklyon accused me of lying. To my knowledge, I've never said anything indicating that he doesn't believe what he says. However, this measure is still an overreaction. I went to his user talk page and asked him to stop. He agreed that "lie" was taking it too far, and he hasn't done it again. It's already been dealt with.

I concur with Dicklyon regarding 3RR. I don't usually count, but I don't think either of us violated 3RR. I thought I might have been close once, so I self-reverted just in case. I also deliberately slowed it down starting a few days ago, and it feels like he might've done so too. Dicklyon did mark two substantive edits as "minor," but that might have been an accident. Again, I just went to his user page (same thread as above) and asked him to be more careful. It's already been dealt with.

If RG or anyone feels that the text of MOS:SUPPORTS does not reflect consensus, then the answer is to bring in more people either with an RfC, at a noticeboard, or less formally. I took the issue to the NPOV noticeboard for that reason.

Correction to Dicklyon: I am not collecting anti-MOS info at MOS:SUPPORTS. I hate the British-only rule and would love to see it changed to allow American punctuation in American English articles, but I was the first one to add sources to MOS:SUPPORTS proving that it is indeed correct British English and I didn't add any quotes that specifically said that it isn't correct American English, even though most of the sources cited there do contain that information. Another correction: No Americans do not prefer logical style (better known as British style). Mainstream style guides almost universally require American style. For sources indicating this, see MOS:SUPPORTS and its talk page.

Response to SmC: I would love to apply neutrality rules to WP:SUPPORTS.

In summary, Dicklyon and I are dealing with this just fine on our own. Neither of us should be banned in any way. The appropriate thing for other editors to do is to come to the talk page and give their two cents.

EDIT: If I'm going to respond to SMcCandlish's accusations, I'm going to need more space. Suffice it to say that most of what he's saying isn't true. It's not that he's lying, but he sees what he wants to see. For example, no Misplaced Pages has not been "criticized in the British press for nationalistic inaccuracy." The writer mentions Misplaced Pages but all he says is that he thinks one of the examples in one of the articles is wrong. Please read for yourself and take all of SmC's other comments with a corresponding grain of salt. EDIT: SmC's response illustrates my point. Click the link and look at what Marsh actually wrote. Then come back here and look at what SmC concluded about it. Observe how much stretching it takes to get from A to B, and assume that he did that with his other points as well. Again, he's not lying—he just fails to see that his conclusions are interpretation plus wishful thinking and not fact. I've shown him a dozen sources that explicitly state that the practice required by Misplaced Pages's MoS is British. I'm not the one in denial.

Response to Dicklyon's comment: If anyone wants to see the sources that show that this practice is British, I will gladly supply them.

(Following comment is a response to Newyorkbrad. It was moved by RGloucester.)

I don't think it's necessary. It's a productive process and we're discussing things on multiple talk pages. RG is blowing things out of proportion again. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

(Following comment is a response to Tony1 (talk · contribs)'s second contribution.)

Well you'd have to ask Dicklyon to make sure we're on the same page, but I think we got the job done. The only editing I've done there in the past day or so has been to format some refs. So I'd say it's moot. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:58, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

(Response to RG)

If RG or anyone wants to make this about me, then we'll need more room, for them to make specific complaints and for me to respond. For now, I'll say that all my actions are within Misplaced Pages's rules. I'm allowed to cite sources and bring in new ones. I'm allowed to challenge and remove unsourced and improperly sourced material. I'm allowed to say "this rule is rotten and we should change it," so long as I don't disregard said rule before it is changed. I'm allowed to disagree with people on talk pages. When someone else says "this editor is wrong," I'm allowed to show up with Chicago MoS or Oxford and say, "actually, that editor's right, and these sources say so." Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:12, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

(Response to EdJohnston)

See response to Tony1. I'm reasonably content with the text that Dicklyon and I worked out for MOS:SUPPORTS. As far as I'm concerned this matter has run its course. If you want to talk about anything else, I'll need more space to respond. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:21, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

EdJohnston, if you want to accuse me of something else, you must be specific about what it is that you think I've done wrong so that I can respond. I haven't started a challenge of WP:LQ in years. When someone else does, I support them, but it's not like I'm the one who keeps bringing it up. It's been challenged at least once a year going back to long before I joined Misplaced Pages. MOS:REGISTER lists literally dozens of challenges to this rule, and it does not include all of them.

When someone comes to the MoS saying "Hey, isn't this wrong?" I say "Yes and here are some sources," but when someone comes to the MoS saying, "How do I use this in the article space?" I say "Here's how." I want this rule changed but in the meantime I am not undermining the MoS. Darkfrog24 (talk) 04:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

If this is a serious accusation, then I need some specifics and confirmation that I'm allowed to go past the 500 word limit, which I passed a while back. Here's the short version. Talk pages: I decided a while ago not to create a new challenge to WP:LQ unless I had something new to say that I reasonably believed might change consensus, like a new source, but that I would support challenges raised by other editors. The last time I brought up WP:LQ myself was to suggest that we fix a misplaced comma in one of the examples. This is a plan, not a promise, but I do plan to continue the support-but-don't-initiate pattern. Article space: I've removed unsourced and poorly sourced material per WP:V and WP:NPOV. I have not opposed content that I do not like so long as it can be sourced. I believe these comments sum it up well: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkfrog24 (talk • contribs)

I am quite taken aback by SMcCandlish's post this morning and I am not sure where to begin.

Let's start with an example:

What SmC says about me: try to turn MOS's own FAQ into a rallying point for "challenging MOS" to get "satisfaction":

Kind of makes me sound like some crazy Don Quixote who thinks he's a knight, huh? But here's what I actually said: Please exercise judgement if you are considering challenging this part of the MoS. Consider reviewing previous discussions first to see if your concerns have already been addressed to your satisfaction.

That should give you a good idea.

I hope this is enough to give everyone an idea of how much salt to add to SmC's words before taking them. I can, if necessary, go through his page line by line if anyone thinks that would be necessary or helpful. I request a heads-up before further action is taken. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:04, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

SmC is accusing me of campaigning against WP:LQ. I want this rule changed but I want it changed in accordance with the procedures that Misplaced Pages has put in place for that purpose. Let's look at this from the positive side: I was first to post sources supporting this rule at MOS:SUPPORTS. You've seen the content that I've added to the FAQ, urging caution. When people come to the MoS asking how to use British style, I tell them. So long as this rule is here, we should get it right.

As for the article space, within the past few months alone, I caught and repaired a multi-year error , kept links up to date , and removed longstanding content that turned out to have been sourced unreliably . Everything I've done in the articles has been consistent with WP:V, WP:RS and WP:NPOV. SmC prefers to call them "my views," but they're really the views of almost every reliable source. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Tony1

I agree with the comment below that this is lame; but not that sanctions are appropriate here. Both involved users are valuable participants on MOS and other WP pages. They should simply agree to cool off and undertake to avoid cross-editing.

RGloucester is a well-known provocateur, and I believe started the thread here out of pure mischief. Regard his first post at the talkpage in question, then the starting of this thread at AE just 23 minutes later, before any futher activity on either the article page or talkpage there. Note also his statement that the page in question "has no standing within the MoS, no community consensus backs it, it is essentially a user essay, and should probably be put in the user space." It is, then, heavily ironic that he should seek to cause maximum disruption by using the apparent "DS" status of that page to start a thread here. It is disingenuous and not in the spirit of calming ruffled waters. Tony (talk) 11:51, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

So, are both parties willing to give that sub-page a rest for a few weeks, as suggested below? This thread is getting old. Tony (talk) 10:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by SMcCandlish

TL;DR version: This sums up the problem perfectly: This is a "hate"-based personal WP:BATTLEGROUND matter for one editor, who will never, ever drop the stick of their belief that logical quotaion "is British" and "is wrong" for Americans, no matter how often this is disproved by citation to sources showing American publishers and style guides using logical quotation, and British style guides defining various conflicting styles, none of which are actually logical quotation, just superficially similar. All Darkfrog24 ever brings to the table is relentless equating of LQ with British to every audience available (based on nothing but the failure of some American sources to bother to distinguish them), making a bogus ENGVAR case so that Darkfrog24 can do whatever Darkfrog24 wants. This campaign against MOS consensus has been going on for 6.5 years and needs to be ended, with a topic ban. Dick Lyon reverting anti-consensus, polemic PoV and OR in the page in question (before it gets MfDed, which I plan to take care of as soon as possible – it's a WP:NOTHERE problem to have a page devoted to externally sourcing internal documentation instead of sourcing encyclopedia articles) is not comparable to Darkfrog24 editwarring to re-insert their PoV, OR and anti-consensus polemic.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  19:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

PS: I agree with Tony1's points about the questionable appropriateness of RGloucester's request here.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  13:38, 15 January 2016 (UTC) Updated 19:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC) Shortened (again). 11:39, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

General response: Ultimately, it simply does not matter whose sourcing regarding off-WP quotation-mark usage is correct (if anyone's) – except in mainspace at Quotation marks in English (which also at present mostly just reflects DF24's views). Being an article, it can be dispute-moderated by the usual ways.

It's an impermissible behavioral problem to spend years pushing a point of view about the matter, tendentiously against consensus, across both projectspace and mainspace. WP has an internal consensus to use LQ for actual reasons, and it doesn't matter which external sources agree with us (though plenty do, ).

RGloucester is correct that the editwarring would resume (and not just at that page) after a while, but it would be by DF24 against anyone who disagrees, as the slow-editwar history of MOS:FAQ demonstrates, as does the related pattern of OR-based PoV pushing at the other MOS-related pages, the article in question, and the related Wiktionary articles. Our actual content is being warped to support a personal agenda, and we've been publicly criticized for the nationalistic inaccuracy in the British press.

The denialism expressed by DF24 above is symptomatic of the issue with this editor. You see, sources simply do not say what they say if DF24 doesn't want to hear it. It's just a form of OR.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  22:39, 15 January 2016 (UTC) Updated with direct quote, 01:31, 16 January 2016 (UTC); shortened, 11:39, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

• Since there's now discussion here of resolving this with a topic ban, I have gathered in one page much of the evidence I've been working on for an RFARB case to examine Darkfrog24's editing behavior patterns with regard to style matters at MoS pages and in mainspace. Looks like no such time- and effort-wasting case may be necessary. Whether a remedy that only extends to quotation marks will do much good seems dubious to me, as the editor's tendentiousness covers the breadth of the WP:ARBATC "broadly construed" topical space, including in articles.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  11:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Dicklyon and Darkfrog24

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Staggeringly lame. Both should be banned from that and related pages for at least three months. Guy (Help!) 21:51, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
• Concur with JzG. It appears the editors have dug into position here, and are not even pretending to try to find consensus or see the other editor's view. KillerChihuahua 22:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

The two comments above were left before the involved editors posted their statements.

• Would both editors agree to stay off that subpage for at least a few weeks? Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:45, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
• "stalking"? "Handling this just fine"? Stand by Guy's first suggestion. Howsoever, certainly in any event voluntary distance is preferable to sanctions imposed from outside. I'd support either. KillerChihuahua 19:28, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
• If a voluntary agreement to disengage cannot be reached, or if that agreement doesn't end this matter, I think a topic ban from the subject of quotation marks, that would apply in all namespaces, would be justified, probably for both parties. Thryduulf (talk) 23:20, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
• It does appear that Darkfrog24 continues to advocate fiercely against MOS:LQ. We should take whatever action appears sufficient to damp down the furor. If that means topic bans for two parties from quotation marks, that is one way to do it. Darkfrog24's comments above appear diplomatic at first glance, but basically they want to be able to continue the advocacy indefinitely and don't see any problem with it. An agreement by both parties to desist would be sufficient, if it were offered. Dicklyon has said he would accept any mutual restriction, so I think it is now up to Darkfrog24 to make a voluntary offer sufficient to forestall a ban. EdJohnston (talk) 03:01, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

• Darkfrog24 has now responded here. This doesn't address the problem, in my opinion. It looks like they are planning to keep on beating the dead horse forever on the topic of logical quotes. A topic ban of at least Darkfrog24 from the topic of quotation marks now appears necessary. EdJohnston (talk) 03:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
• I agree the responses from Darkfrog24 don't evidence understanding of the issue, so I think we do need to impose a topic ban from quotation marks. As for Dicklyon, I am wondering about a suspended topic ban that can be activated by any uninvolved admin if they are involved in any disruption in the topic area in the next 3 (6?) months. Thryduulf (talk) 13:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

BjörnBergman

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning BjörnBergman

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Legacypac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:48, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

BjörnBergman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Longevity#Motion:_Longevity_.28August_2015.29 : :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Inserts a line about Zhou Youguang turning 110 today, which is fine, until you see his next edits where presumably this edit becomes "unverified". Zhou is a particularly famous person that invented Pinyin, a system credited with increasing Chinese literacy dramatically and making it possible for English etc speakers to pronounce Chinese words.
2. Undid revision 700167425 by Ricky81682 Remove Zhou Youguang. He is not yet verified. This is a lost of VERIFIED supercentenarians.
3. Another article - Zhou Youguang is unverified. This list includes VERIFIED supercentenarians.
4. Undid revision 700171497 by Legacypac (talk) Why should Zhou be included if he is unaccepted by GRG???)
5. reverts a notification that I reverted his edit with (Revert spam)
6. reverts User:Ricky81682's cleanup of the lead to preserve the GRG special focus.
7. reverts another attempt to dialog with him calling my message spam
8. files a ANi vandalism report against me on longevity.

And in all this fails to engage on their own or any article talkpage they are editing.

1. reverts oldest people edits without explanation. (added Jan 17 Legacypac (talk) 18:56, 17 January 2016 (UTC))
2. (Undid revision 700313889 by Legacypac (talk) Stop adding Zhou Youguang! He is no validated supercentenarian!)

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Jan 16 which they immediately blanked also the DS are mentioned on all the main Longevity talk pages. I recognize that it appears they were not notified on their user page about the DS until just before I filed the report, so if Admins feel that the talk page notices are not enough to cover a topic ban, perhaps appropriate guidance can be given at least.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The refusal to follow WP policy in favor of GRG being the only source of any verified longevity claim, discarding all other sources, make this user problematic in this topic area. We are dealing with pure craziness in this topic like this so it is important to bring editors into policy or remove them from the topic area. Legacypac (talk) 23:48, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Response to BabbaQ: No one can put his disregard for policy in his head but himself. I've not looked at his edits outside this topic area as that is of no concern to this matter. The edits are not all against me either. Now we have IPs attacking these articles saying the same stuff as him. See edit history of Zhou Youguang for example. Legacypac (talk) 01:04, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

As an adjunct to this report I've filed a 3RR report since the editor has gone beyond 3RR on Oldest people since this report was filed. I chose to do that because it is easier to see 3RR in standard formatting at the 3RR board, but have cross linked here and there. Legacypac (talk) 20:45, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• GreatGreen is topic banned two sections up and should not be commenting here.Legacypac (talk) 22:16, 17 January 2016 (UTC))

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

(since reverted )

Discussion concerning BjörnBergman

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by BjörnBergman

Statement by BabbaQ

• Seems like BjörnBergman has gone for the old "baiting" trick. If you consider the overall edits between the two users it is clear to me that BjörnBergman should not even have been reported in the first place. At best this situation should have taken to admins incidents noticeboard or similar. And calling another users edits " pure craziness" as stated above by Legacypac about other users seems to be just the kind of baiting used to start this discussion in the first place. I would suggest that both BjörnBergman and Legacypac should take a cooling-off period and stay out of each others ways. --BabbaQ (talk) 00:42, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by GreatGreen

• There is no need but the problem is these are your own "rules" - if you only accept that SCs being verified can be only 110+ in reality in every list you also have to accept this here. It is one of your own contradicting rules.GreatGreen (talk) 08:45, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by clpo13

BjörnBergman has reverted on WOP articles multiple times, citing the lack of GRG verification (, , , , , ). However, they've only participated in the discussion at Talk:Oldest people once (). That discussion, however, was in relation to their unilateral redirection of various pages, such as List of the verified oldest people (, ), List of oldest living people (, ), and List of the verified oldest women (, ). Now, I'm sure there's something to be said about reorganizing these disparate lists, but BjörnBergman did it without discussion and reverted (multiple times) when challenged. The aforementioned talk page comment () shows that they apparently don't understand why their actions were reverted. Combined with the lack of discussion regarding Zhou Youguang and his inclusion on Oldest people and related pages, I'm forced to concluded that this editor should stay away from longevity articles until they can demonstrate a collaborative mindset to editing this topic. clpo13_(talk) 00:33, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning BjörnBergman

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• This is concerning. I'd like to hear from BjörnBergman before making up my mind but at first sight edit warring around an insistence that GRG is the only valid source for claims of longevity is problematic and evidence of a battleground mentality. It is not behaviour that we should encourage in an area subject to arbitration enforcement. Hopefully, the user will be open to a wider perspective on this. Spartaz 13:39, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

TFBCT1

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning TFBCT1

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Ricky81682 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:15, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

TFBCT1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Longevity#Motion:_Longevity_.28August_2015.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. There is a talk page discussion at the oldest living people talk page about whether to include Zhou Youguang as a supercentenarian (there's argument at Zhou's talk page that, since the GRG hasn't verified his age, his birth date should be removed there regardless of the other sources we have). There's a separate discussion below about the lede and the criteria. Rather than communicate in any way, TFBCT1 first rewrote the definition of the page so that it requires GRG approval and then in the Zhou section and not the lede section posted that he had changed the meaning to the oldest people page and QED Zhou doesn't count (first talk page comment since September 2011). I noted that it was a lowball way to win the point and it is disruptive. He was pinged to comment rather than revert but has yet to comment or discuss this any further.
2. Reverted again to state that "notability and sourcing have nothing to do with longevity research."
3. Reverted again to mirror the oldest people page (which has much worse problems with edit warring), still no attempt to engage on the talk page.
4. The editor's history is almost always consistently of nothing more than "updating" longevity tables. Note that these updates change the names and rankings of people include the additional of new people without sources and don't show any changes to the GRG citation which is the source so it's actually more difficult to verify what the actual source is for these changes. See 1, 2, 3 (still allegedly citing the September 2015 version), removing a claim which I presume in limbo (whatever that means), etc., etc.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Notified about sanctions here.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Apologies for another longevity enforcement request but TFBCT1's refusal to engage in any discussion and game-playing to redefine the criteria so that only the GRG's list is counted is par for the course with these proponents. Even if the editor was in good faith supporting the logic that we await approval from another "super source" beyond our regular sourcing requirements so that someone can be added to the tables, their refusal to discuss it in the actual lede discussion in favor of changing the lede and the criteria specifically to exclude a claim (while arguing that we should focus on "longevity research" as opposed to our sourcing requirements) is frustrating. I've started an RFC at Talk:List_of_oldest_living_people#RfC:_How_should_we_word_the_lede.3F and I fully expect that none of the GRG proponents will ever comment at the RFC and will just revert and revert to get what they want as they have done for a decade. This disruption is spreading to other biographies until the insane delusion that the only source we can have the moment someone reaches age 110 is the GRG and that everything else must go out the window. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:15, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Spartaz The edit war has stopped because I and anyone else didn't continue. If you look at the RFC, there's zero support for the version that TFBCT1 put there. Are we just waiting for the RFC to get closed and enacted with someone else and then we'll see if TFBCT1 has changed? Should I just change it now and see if he responds? He's clearly not going to comment on the talk page or justify his version (neither have the other supporters of that theory). What about the complete refusal to communicate beyond the simple "I've changed it to a version that I and I alone support, one that is against all polices here" after years of editing in this topic? Since then, he's continued with his "table updates" moving names around with no changes in sourcing or any explanation at all and also an edit to add a cite needed to Zhou's claim on the Asian supercentenarians (the exact same person who he's removed and fought to remove from the oldest people page). -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:34, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Diff

Discussion concerning TFBCT1

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by TFBCT1

Statement by clpo13

The lack of discussion by TFBCT1 is concerning. They've only made a single talk page comment in over four years (, ). I pinged them to a discussion on Talk:List of oldest living people regarding the lead of that article, but they haven't chimed in beyond the diff I linked. They have, however, continued to revert to their preferred version of the article. clpo13_(talk) 23:23, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Legacypac

Reverts User:Calton who notes GRG does not set wikipedia standards with "no consensus for this edit as per below."

Statement by (username)

Result concerning TFBCT1

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Minded to close this in favour of the demand that the edit war on Oldest people stops. I'm inclined to dishing out 1RR restrictions rather than topic bans for this revert war but can be persuaded to desist in exhange for a commitment to start talking. Spartaz 19:38, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Mystery Wolff

NOTE: Because of items brought up newly within the Meta Discussion, and discussion on with which group reviews the item, this is moved to the A/R/E board, intact. Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Mystery Wolff (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Mystery Wolff (talk) 09:22, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=698914028#Mystery_Wolff

Indefinite Topic ban from the subject of Electronic Cigarettes, imposed at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement%2FArchive187&type=revision&diff=699532847&oldid=699532827, logged at https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/Log/2016 -->

Administrator imposing the sanction

EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Done here: https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:EdJohnston#Your_noticing_of_an_arbitration_enforcement_sanction

Statement by Mystery Wolff

EdJohnston is an editor whom I interacted with, and was involved with my editing. He asked that I respond to sockpuppet assertions on the TALK pages, which he ultimately used as part of his justification to ban me indefinitely. He was involved with another AE opened on me that was rescinded, and was the person who suggested as the first measure of any sanction or warning to me that I be topic banned for 6 months.

1. I was not part of the ARB that created the Discretionary Sanctions, however an involved editor to the ARB requested that an Alert be posted to my Talk page.
2. Prior to the first AE, and the continuation AE posted above I have not had any sanctions or edit warring notices, or any other formalized process violations.
3. Other editors who were part of the ARB (CFCF) have been brought into the AE, and been given warnings. However in my Case, EdJohnston asked for a 6 month ban of me, as an involved Admin, and that recommendation skewed and controlled the output of the AE.
4. The ARB decision provided that : "Enforcement of restrictions Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year.
5. EdJohnston sought and got sanctions against me that far outstripped the guides of the ARB. This was the ARB that EdJohnston as an involved Admin, said he was enforcing, however the enforcing is not using the ARB as a template. It reflects that EdJohnston is NOT assuming good faith, NOT avoiding biting genuine newcomers and NOT allow responsible contributors maximum editing freedom.
6. EdJohnston posioned the well, when he assumed me to be a sockpuppet, in TALK, before the first AE, and before he recommended I be banned for 6 times the amount of time provided for by the AE.
7. This AE in question is highly unusual. It surrounds edits where I warned the editor reverting me to not engage in Edit Warring. My edits were then reverted by a known SPA indentified in the ARB, who was discovered and banned by DeltaQuad.
8. The AE surrounds a state where the AE was pointing to edits that were already reverted out, and all the pages were operating without issue.
9. The AE here in question should have been closed with no action taken. My edits were already out, and I was actively using the TALK pages to resolve the issues where it was a dispute of MEDRS quoting within articles.
10. More editors than not, had already said on TALK they agreed with my edits which were reverted out.
11. Multiple long term editors of the pages, tag teamed to have me removed. S Marshall has made many personal remarks about my editorship, something he had been previously been warned about. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:S_Marshall#Mystery_Wolff
12. AlbinoFerret began intimidating me here, before he opened the AE https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Spartaz&oldid=698086939#Do_I_need_to_open_a_new_AE_section.3F
13. I wrote on the Talk page of EdJohnston about his INVOLVED Administorship regarding me and this specific topic here https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:EdJohnston&oldid=698583165#Egregious_use_of_Admin_privileges.2C_and_your_involved_commentary_pretensed_as_.22Uninvolved_input.22
14. EdJohnston has refused to give me any insight to what actions I was taking that cause him to suggest first, and then him to judge me at the AE. Here. https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:EdJohnston#Your_noticing_of_an_arbitration_enforcement_sanction
    
15. This AE stayed open with me editing, and contributing for days and days, up to the point where EdJohnston came back to something he was involved with, and pushed for an indefinite ban.
16. No other editors of the pages involved with, MADE ANY REMARKS, on the AE. Again, I was editing properly and using TALK, and my edits were reverted out, and I was not edit warring....YET, EdJohnston pushes for an indefinite ban, premised upon his own actions. It is entirely circular and looks like bias.

Bottomline The AE has most of the information. The AE was created by an editor who wants me to not edit. I should be afford the opportunity to work properly and edit properly without having other editors act as owners of the article. I do not believe I should have been sanctioned at all. I was editing correctly. And I was using the Talk pages. The indefinite ban is overkill, by any measure and reflects the biases and true "involvement" with EdJohnston with this case. He recommendations poisoned the well with the other admins. The ARB he is enforcing does not specify that the first saunction would be a 6 month ban. In fact it says it should not exceed 30 days. I was not part of the original ARB, but its subsequent enforcement to other editors are nothing near what EdJohnston has pushed on me. EdJohnston has refused to point out my edits in a question. Long term sockpuppets were interacting with my edits, with no investigation by EdJohnston to why. His mind was made up
This should be reversed. And at a very minimum the TB should not exceed the bounds of the ARB, and go beyond 30 days. Without keeping to process, Misplaced Pages becomes a boys club where newbies are pushed out, without the means to appeal with any significance, or to just make the process of appealing be beyond that of anyone wanting to contribute.
This has been tremendously frustrating, I am able to answer questions asked here. Mystery Wolff (talk) 09:22, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

• Responding to @Ivanvector:: I do not believe this is cut and dry at all, and that is part of the problem, it takes more investigation to understand the context of what is operating. Specifically, the many edits that I did, that were uncontested and remain in the articles are not being given any weight by your remarks. I also did not "earn a topic ban" previously. Spartaz, stated that it was done in error, and apologized, and rescinded the TB. It was not lifted, it was expunged...yes it is a factor here because the same editor who began that, because I was requesting Full Protection of the article. It is a factor because AlbinoFerret, who opened the first AE went over to Spartaz TALK and started lobbying the closing Admin that another AE should be opened on me, and then ultimately did.
• I did not refuse help, I did not ignore advice, and the 2nd AE was not for the same behavior as the first. The 2nd AE relates to the pages, where my edits were reverted, they remained out, I continued to edit without any events, and there was an ongoing TALK discussion about the nature of the edits and how they related to WP:MEDRS Doc James said he would review the this AE, that was communicated, however the AE was closed before that could happen. Why it needed to be closed before any other involved editor could speak to the issue is also unknown.
• The edits in question of the AE, had more support for being in the article than being out of the article by the editors on TALK, saying that I am disruptive, is without any reference. That exact type of broad-stroke without specificity is part of the what I am asking for examination within this appeal.
• Sanctions are not to be used as constructive criticism. That is not WP policy. There are ample avenues of dispute resolution. My edits were in good faith, and they largely remain in the articles to this day.
• Whether or not it is your view, my view is people should contribute to where they have subject matter expertise, and that was my choice.
• When you say that Electronic Cigarettes is "a topic that happens to be one of our most volatile and unstable." That should give you pause, and you should reflect to why that is the case. The nature of the article predates me. I edited well. I was reverted out, by a SOCKPUPPET who was banned. This is what AlbinoFerret noticed on Spartaz's talk page when canvassing that to begin another AE on me. However the AE was created on a different topic after the SOCKPUPPET who was part of the ARB was removed. The first AE was created because I was requesting for a Full Protection with moving in of consensus edits out from talk, by an Admin. That was me trying to solve a long standing issue.
• This is a complex appeal. Because it its contained in a small amount of time it can be useful as a case study of what processes are going wrong. The Topic Ban of me, only rewarded the very same tactics which you are saying contribute to the unstable article. Again Ivanvector, regardless of your stance, this is not cut and dry. I relates to how MEDRS is used in items that are not are medical for only parts of their content, and relates to primary vs secondary sources, which are complex, and Topic Banning the editor who is attempting to resolve them, only leaves a status quo, which you consider "most volatile and unstable"
• The nature of a collaborative editing project, requires that rules be in place, and that admins, monitor those rules. It means that editors who are familar with the AE and asking for saunctions should not use those skills to do and end-around of the normal dispute resolution processes.
• Ultimately Ivanvector, I believe you should look at my edits, the ones still in place, the TALK pages where I was discussing those edits. I asked L235, to place the Discretionary Sanctions warning badge on the page itself, which they did. That is not the actions of someone trying to game or do anything but edit the articles properly. Which my edits were in fact doing.
• Please look at the AE and the 8 differences, and the my responses, those are not the stuff of a 6 month Topic Ban.
• Lastly, the ARB did not call out for 6 month topic bans as reasonable. In fact the ARB said a one month TB should not be exceeded. WP needs to stay with process over convenience, as without adherence to the guidelines the process and content will fail. Mystery Wolff (talk) 21:21, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

@Spartaz: I followed the template instructions and moved out you Statement, from the section only to be used by the closing Admin. The template and process instructions, said that other comments are to be moved to the correct sections. To your specific question, its contained in several spots including the very AE itself. Did you read my responses to EdJohnston in the AE the appeal is about? To delineate it further it will take time, to find more of the differences in your request, which I will do as soon as time provides me.

Procedural note:In reviewing https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement I believe the nature of this appeal is asking for a peer review. As you were involved in this AE, and EdJohnston cited you in his commendation, prior to your responses within the AE...Would I be correct in thinking that this appeal, is to be done by Admins who were not participants in the AE in question? Thanks Mystery Wolff (talk) 23:32, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken: Hi, you edited the template bottom section which had text This section is to be edited by the closing administrator only. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above., and changed it to "uninvolved administrators". I used the template that filled the text, and it placed in "closing administrator", I have not been able to replicate the problem with the template, but I suspect it had something to do with the AN board it was changed to. There is a glitch somewhere. I seem to be able to QC test stuff just by my nature...but I wanted to mention why that text was found, and used, and why I moved out text per the instructions. Mystery Wolff (talk) 10:18, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

@Spartaz:

1. Directly above I explain (as best able) why the text --- was inserted into this appeal. It was done by the template itself.
2. Yes, I have read . I raised those very same concerns to EdJohnston during this AE here [https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:EdJohnston&oldid=698608937#Egregious_use_of_Admin_privileges.2C_and_your_involved_commentary_pretensed_as_.22Uninvolved_input.22} He never responded.
3. The first AE was struck (rescinded) and was for entirely different items to boot. I was accused of being a Sockpuppet, and it was asserted that I was personalizing on TALK pages. Neither of these are part of the 8 items listed on this AE. During the first AE, I made it clear that my prior interactions with EdJohnston, gave him such a bias, and that bias was manifested in his suggestion of 6 months ban instead of a warning, instead of any number of other options. It was unfair because I was treated as sockpuppet for matters I had nothing to do with.
4. I am not solely raising EdJohnston's involved status as my rationale to why the topic ban is grossly excessive and improper. I have listed 16 items above. I cite the actual AE and the other links above. It is my believe that the only fair appraisal for an appeal is with Admins who have taken the time to read them. The banhammer is being used as the only tool, and that is not right. Admins need to balance the need to assume good faith, to avoid biting genuine newcomers and to allow responsible contributors maximum editing freedom...Explain their enforcement actions; Not issue a grossly disproportionate sanction; nor to enforce discretionary sanctions beyond their reasonable scope.
5. Spartaz, the nature of this appeal is to have a peer review of the Topic Ban. I asked you a question whether or not you intended to participate in the Appeals process, because you questions to me here are advocacy of a position. I believe the right to appeal an AE decision is the right to have fresh eyes look at the outcome. Much like in law, the appeals process is a different set of judges. Administrators may not adjudicate their own actions at any appeal though they are encouraged to provide statements and comments to assist in reaching a determination. I believe you interactions here now go beyond making statements and comments....you are quizzing me and questioning me, and challenging through questions. That is adjudicating, that is not offering a comment. Its a problem. And it is poisoning the process, it does not give me an appeal per process. It is simply not fair, buy the rules of the appeal.
6. CFCF was part of the ARB, and was sanctioned by it. AlbinoFerret opened an AE on him also, just like the 2 he did to me. Why is it that CFCF gets a warning, and I without any previous history or sanctions, gets a indefinate topic ban? How is this fair? https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive186#CFCF
7. In AlbinoFerret's AE on CFCF -- AlexBrn points out this https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive880#Proposed_topic_ban_for_AlbinoFerret AlbinoFerret threatened me with BOOMERANGs in the past, and I hate the entire concept because I think its WikiInsider Gaming.....but I should expect that the AlbinoFerret who has opened 3 AEs on Electronic Cigarettes should be at least examined. I would suggest he has taken battlegrounding to a new art form after he volentarily left these articles for 6 months. I would suggest that none of the 8 differences he listed in the AE raise to the leave of Topic Ban. I was reverted out of the article, and taking the discussion to TALK. I was working with the other editors.
8. Again Spartaz, I have listed out where EdJohnston had me explain why I was not a sockpuppet in the article talk. He also suggested the idea of a Full Protection. He complained that I asked the AE to take that up. He started off with a 6 month ban, which exceeds the ARB. I will ask ARCA for clarification of that.
9. The appeal needs to have a full examination. It can not just be "oh he is protesting and appealing the TB, I don't have time to read what he is saying....I don't have time to read number 13 in first list. And someone should have read the 8 differences and my 8 responses in the AE itself. Because there are systemic problems certainly larger than myself....I think the entire matter should be pushed into a new formal ARB process. Because banning me indefinitely does not touch the core, and its not proper too. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Role_of_administrators Mystery Wolff (talk) 11:42, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by EdJohnston

Statement by AlbinoFerret

As far as EdJohnston, he is not involved. The only edits to the articles were as an uninvolved admin to the talk page and suggested ways that the editors could solve issues (more discussion, RFC, AE, etc). He to my knowledge has never edited any electronic cigarette article, nor voiced any opinions on content on any talk page. Per WP:INVOLVED he is not involved. AlbinoFerret 23:44, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I would like to point out WP:ASPERSIONS. So far none of the claims of Mystery Wolff have been proved. Also the 500 word limit has long been passed by him. AlbinoFerret 13:02, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Mystery Wolff

• Oppose unblock - well, I think it's pretty cut-and-dry here. Mystery Wolff already earned a topic ban from e-cigs for this behaviour, was fortunate enough to have had it lifted when several users offered help and advice, refused the help and ignored the advice, and was then topic banned again for the same behaviour. All in the course of not much more than a month. The sanction imposed by EdJohnston is extremely reasonable: MW's inexperienced enthusiasm is clearly disruptive in this topic area, but they very well may become a highly productive editor if they "learn the ropes" in less difficult environments over the next six months. @Mystery Wolff: take the sanction imposed here as constructive criticism. We want you to stick around and help build this wonderful project, but unfortunately you started out in a topic that happens to be one of our most volatile and unstable. Listen to the advice that experienced editors offer you, show that you can participate and collaborate in other topics, and I guarantee that you'll be welcomed back after six months. That's how it goes. (Non-administrator comment) Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Procedural note: I responded in this section when this was originally posted at WP:AN. There is some meta-discussion collapsed above regarding who should comment, as ArbCom's procedures give slightly different rules for appeals posted at AE versus those posted at AN (which seems to be a weakness of the process). Mystery Wolff having moved the entire appeal thread to this board seems to render my comment out-of-process; whoever reviews this can decide if my comments may be accepted or not. Ping me if required, please. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 22:39, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

In both modes -- AE-based appeal and AN-based appeal -- this section (i.e. "Discussion among uninvolved editors") exists, so your comment should not be considered "out of process". BMK (talk) 05:39, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Mystery Wolff

This section is to be edited by the uninvolved administrators only. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I'm not following the argument that Ed was involved. please can you provide diffs of the exact edits that you think make him involved. Have you read WP:INVOLVED? Spartaz 21:50, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I have restored my comment to the correct location. I am not involved either as I have only dealt with you in an administrative capacity. I repeat my question - have you read WP:INVOLVED? What specific edits of Ed's made him involved according to that policy? Spartaz 07:20, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
    • • MysteryWolff. the actions you describe do not make him involved. They are administrative actions and therefore not in the editor role. You did read INVOLVED? Spartaz 14:05, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
• I'm not seeing the involved issue either. I have had no involvement at all in the area, plus two other admins agreed with the proposal. If the only issue is the admin who closed it, I'd close it the same way. Six months is very reasonable. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:12, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Canada Jack

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Canada Jack

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Ricky81682 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:48, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Canada Jack (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Longevity#Motion:_Longevity_.28August_2015.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Editing to restore the "original edit" which I point out is wrong.
2. The discussions at Talk:List_of_oldest_living_people are largely self-explanatory. The issue is whether reliable sources should determine who should be listed on the page or some other terminology: the phrasing now is "international body that specifically deals in longevity research" but without identifying the GRG as the only actual source in play.
3. The "no one has 'verified' the age" versus newspapers alleging "reporting" the age (I don't even know anymore) arguing continues here
4. To determine which bodies are said international longevity researching specific-whatever, "We observe what news sources use" so arguing newspapers are unreliable as a source other than to parrot the GRG as a source.
5. "Nice try, Ricky. NONE of the sources outside of GRG / Guinness claim that these birthdates are "verified"... unless GRG/Guinness has verified them!" which is false.
6. "I never said they were the sole authorities, but media around the world use those two almost exclusively, so we should as well, that's all"
7. It's the oldest living people, yet Canada Jack derails the discussion by repeating arguing about the insertion of Methusalah's age knowing full well that's irrelevant, but calling it the logical consequence and the can of worms opened by the lede saying "reliable sources" alone. The section needs an outside admin to just collapse it.
8. Canada Jack has been derailing the discussion by pointing to this article in the Canada Star. While never advocating for her inclusion, (a WP:NOTFORUM problem), he's repeatedly referencing it including just to make snipes on other discussions going on.
9. " This page is for verified claims. The fact a claim was published doesn't establish its veracity."
10. As noted above, there is an argument about the birthdate for Zhou Youguang (not a claim, just that little fact). The only way Canada Jack sees this is "His claim is accepted on its face by the media. But... there is no mention of Guinness and/or GRG as having verified the claim" in regards to his birthdate. As discussed before, no one cares a cent about this until Zhou turned 110 and then there's arguments everywhere that his birthdate must be removed until it's verified by the GRG or else there exists the possibility that Misplaced Pages is claiming that a supercentenarian exists that the GRG hasn't identified which I don't know why that matters.
11. Finally, to summarize this mentality, "Are you seriously trying to claim that it is the Toronto Star which has determined that the proof is "not solid enough" instead of Guinness? That the Toronto Star, not Guinness, bestows the crown of "world's oldest person"? C'mon, Ricky, surely you can do better than that!"

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• The talk pages each notify the editor of the discretionary sanctions.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is the typical parade of horribles and chaos caused whenever there is an ounce of push-back to even debating the language that doesn't explicitly or implicitly treat the GRG as the last word on the birth date of very old people. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:48, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Diff

Discussion concerning Canada Jack

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Canada Jack

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Canada Jack

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.