Misplaced Pages

Talk:Richard B. Spencer: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 22:12, 14 March 2016 editDoug Weller (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Oversighters, Administrators263,780 edits White nationalist or white supremacist?: that doesn't mention Spencer← Previous edit Revision as of 22:43, 14 March 2016 edit undoRockypedia (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users15,711 edits White nationalist or white supremacist?Next edit →
Line 24: Line 24:
:::::::::Nope, Misplaced Pages has the source right here, http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2003/04/interviews-offer-unprecedented-look-into-the-world-and-words-of-the-new-white-nationalism-60031/ ] (]) 21:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC) :::::::::Nope, Misplaced Pages has the source right here, http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2003/04/interviews-offer-unprecedented-look-into-the-world-and-words-of-the-new-white-nationalism-60031/ ] (]) 21:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::No mention of Spencer there. ] ] 22:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::No mention of Spencer there. ] ] 22:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'd like to suggest that we've reached consensus on this topic, based on the fact that multiple editors have agreed that the current terminology is the most accurate one, ] and ] have articulated why the current terminology is the most accurate, and the only reason this is still going on is that the only editor still arguing for a change to "white nationalist" is ], and every argument presented by him has been refuted point by point. At this point we're just stretching this argument out beyond common sense, and it's a waste of everyone's time. ] (]) 22:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Revision as of 22:43, 14 March 2016

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconChicago
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Chicago, which aims to improve all articles or pages related to Chicago or the Chicago metropolitan area.ChicagoWikipedia:WikiProject ChicagoTemplate:WikiProject ChicagoChicago
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconBiography
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
WikiProject iconUnited States
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

White nationalist or white supremacist?

I think it should be included in the lead that he is a white nationalist, not just white supremacist, which is often used a dysphemism, but the sources we are using identifies him as so. He is also identified as a white nationalist only. Connor Machiavelli (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

White nationalist is what white supremacists call themselves.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 01:55, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages differentiates between the two, so that's WP:POV from you. Just no. Connor Machiavelli (talk) 02:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
  • SPLC dscribes him as white nationalist and white separatist. And mentions white supremacy twice.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 03:10, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict)They are different in principle, but in practice the difference is barely acknowledged by most sources. The article says he's president of a white nationalist think tank, so the connection is made perfectly clear in the lede. Over-emphasizing this difference is pointless and non-neutral, and as white nationalism points out, white nationalists avoid the word supremacy because of its negative connotations. While it's preposterous to pretend that "white nationalist" doesn't have the same negative connotations, it doesn't matter because Misplaced Pages doesn't use WP:EUPHEMISMs. Also, white supremacists are described by Misplaced Pages as a subset of white nationalists, so what's the problem with the current wording? How many layers of redundancy do we really need here? Grayfell (talk) 03:14, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Agree with Grayfell on this point. Many reliable sources describe him as a white supremacist. As a result, that's the more accurate description, as it's a subset of white nationalist. Rockypedia (talk) 12:10, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Sources didn't mean that he's a white supremacist in the sense of him adhering to a subset, the sources meant he's a white supremacist in the POV way. Connor Machiavelli (talk) 23:13, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
@Connor Machiavelli:, what does "in a pov way" mean? I am never clear what you mean by that and I don't think you are. I'd also like to know when you think it's acceptable to use the term "white supremacist" as you rarely if ever agree to using it. Note please that I'd appreciate answers to both questions. Doug Weller talk 09:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
I mean sources define him in different ways. According to Misplaced Pages, I don't think he's a white supremacist of white nationalism, prove he adds ideas from social Darwinism and Nazism to his ideology, then. Also WP:UNDUE. Connor Machiavelli (talk) 20:34, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
I have no idea what you mean. What does "According to Misplaced Pages" mean? I don't understand any of the rest either. Why would I prove anything? What do social Darwinism and Nazism have to do with this? Nor do I understand why at Alt-right you want to keep in material sourced only to one poor source, while here you think WP:UNDUE can be applied to something with 3 sources. 4 soon I think, checking another one. Doug Weller talk 21:00, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
It already says he's a white nationalist, so why different wording? "White separatism and white supremacy are subgroups within white nationalism. The former seek a separate white state, while the latter add ideas from social Darwinism and Nazism to their ideology." from white nationalism on Misplaced Pages. Connor Machiavelli (talk) 21:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Your reasoning is original research. We go by what reliable sources say, and we don't use Misplaced Pages as a source. Doug Weller talk 21:28, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Nope, Misplaced Pages has the source right here, http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2003/04/interviews-offer-unprecedented-look-into-the-world-and-words-of-the-new-white-nationalism-60031/ Connor Machiavelli (talk) 21:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
No mention of Spencer there. Doug Weller talk 22:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest that we've reached consensus on this topic, based on the fact that multiple editors have agreed that the current terminology is the most accurate one, Doug Weller and Grayfell have articulated why the current terminology is the most accurate, and the only reason this is still going on is that the only editor still arguing for a change to "white nationalist" is Connor Machiavelli, and every argument presented by him has been refuted point by point. At this point we're just stretching this argument out beyond common sense, and it's a waste of everyone's time. Rockypedia (talk) 22:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Categories: