Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:24, 24 August 2006

Until I created this login I used Misplaced Pages under this IP.

Sorry I took a while to get back to you.

If you want to raise a policy discussion, Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy) is probably the best place for it. The suggestions you have - single imaged with the video feed behind - aren't technically feasible with MediaWiki as it stands today, but may be possible in the long run. On the other hand, if it were possible, those videos would almost certainly be hosted on site.

Discussing the usefulness of Java video might be productive; I know we have very little video of any form. Shimgray | talk | 16:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User page

Hi Mark! Have you considered writing something brief in your user page? This will turn all your links blue, and let people know something about you at the same time. Stephen B Streater 08:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't realise your daughter was born this year - that makes her younger than Sophie! Stephen B Streater 22:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Oops - only two months old and walking already, something is definitely wrong here. Ah yes I have the year wrong - Elena was born in 2005 - thankyou Stephen. I will have to try harder to catch you out next time. mk 22:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

FORscene

Hi Mark! You might be interested in my prototype FORscene article. Any comments welcome. Stephen B Streater 10:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I am printing it off now. Will return with feedback as soon as. mk 22:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. An Admin has made it into a real article now. Stephen B Streater 08:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Cool - informative yet succinct! mk 19:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

As the last version got voted out at AfD, someone has re-proposed it here. As you contributed and know about the subject, you might want to look at the discussion. Stephen B Streater 13:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

External linking to videos

Please don't external link to videos. Upload them in Ogg/Theora format. We'll soon have an inline player for ease of use. An example of properly uploaded videos can be found hereIf you need help, just let me know. --Gmaxwell 01:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I've been thinking of adding a Ogg/Theora publish button to FORscene since this lot came round to Forbidden's stand at IBC last year. It's a free codec and runs under Linux, so if it's supported by the standard Linux tools, this should take a matter of minutes. The thing that's help me back is the lack of a Java player, but this is now going to be available "soon" (see above). To republish in this format, all you will need to do is to drag your file icon onto the Misplaced Pages icon (I'll need permission to use this as the Misplaced Pages intellectual property is copyright). I'm working with Gmaxwell on ways to automate this upload when Misplaced Pages video is published in FORscene. If you have any requests for user interface, please let me know - perhaps on my talk page or on FORscene's own chat system. Stephen B Streater 06:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Mark! We've added in an Ogg publish button to FORscene. If you'd like to beta test it, let me know. Stephen B Streater 14:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Stephen, yes I would like to Beta test whatever will help me publish these videos in a WP friendly manner via FORscene. For the immediate I would like the deleted external video links restored. mk 01:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a shame - the videos you removed had attracted thousands of viewings. I have contributed almost 20 videos as links (I also have a handful in the pipeline). I think there are no more than 200 Ogg videos on WP. I think it is fair to say that Video on WP is woefully under represented given that I as an individual could boost the library by 10%. If I were a very reactive and negative person, I might ask how on earth WP ever expects to accumulate any more video material than it already has if serious amateur videographers like me are treated this way. I.e. dictated to in terms of which tools must be used. I want to use FORscene to edit my videos. I rather like using FORscene, it is easy and convenient to use. It all works in a browser. Any other method of working will take far far longer. For example:

• I will need to upload my DV footage from my camera and keep it on my hard disk (this is expensive and very time consuming)
• I will need an editing package installed on my computer (and I will need to learn this package and be confident it will give me the results I want - e.g. is it frame accurate - assuming I cannot get a free one I will have to pay for it too)
• I will need to redo all my edits (i.e. the finished versions you see will have to be redone by ploughing through raw footage)
• I will need to obtain / install software to convert to ogg format and learn how to use this
• I will need to upload the final edits back to WP

All this will take more time in fact than I probably have available to invest. I only do this as a hobby - I have a regular job and other responsibilities on top of that. Do you know how long it took me to compile these edited videos?! Do you do any video editing at all yourself?

• On WP linking policy

The linking policy does not even prohibit direct links to rich media. And it even explicitely says that indirect links are acceptable. It stipulates you make clear the technology being used for direct links - which I have done. There is also a test of 'appropriateness'. There are specifically no black and white statements relating to the placing of content on Misplaced Pages under all circumstances / no external links to rich media.

• What is 'appropriate'?

If there was a similar video to mine in Ogg format, it could be deemed appropriate to delete my video link from an article. E.g. some of the videos I provided are NASA videos which could quite easily be encoded in Ogg format. Quite appart from the fact that nobody appears to have the energy to do this - the rest are shot and edited by myself and are unique. Therefore it is appropriate to keep the unique externally linked video IMO.

• Direction of video on WP (as an aside)

Who is directing the path that WP takes regarding video? Whoever it is should take a serious step back. It looks to me like a very technology dominated forum. That is not in itself a problem. What is a problem is a forum that excludes a real user community. In the case of video it needs to encourage views from people like me (how modest a fellow I am) i.e. by this I mean people who are willing to put the effort in to collect and deliver video content to WP and by implication the viewer as well. All this wonderful technology means nothing if nobody is contributing/viewing content. And that is how it seems things are at the moment. There are already too many disincentives to add/view video on WP with Ogg - we do not need any more. I can see the theory of how an inline Java player for Ogg is a step in the right direction but what evidence is there that this will set WP alight with video? And how does this fit into the overall strategy for video on WP? In fact what is the overall vision - does WP even have one? If not then how about this for starters; that editors are able to edit, re-edit, 'donated' video material and publish this from a browser in the same fashion as text.

• Status of external links

If I can continue to use FORscene to edit / publish videos that's progress IMO. I would much prefer it if FORscene were better integrated with WP but that's a different matter. If it is possible by the method Stephen suggests that would be fantastic. But until this is working I think the current method of external links works fine. I am happy to remove the NASA videos too - when the inline WP Java video is working and there are NASA Ogg versions available to stream. But to just remove video links because an alternative might be along soon is not good enough justification IMO. It not only needs to be here now, it needs somebody to put in the time to prepare the NASA videos in Ogg format as well. When a WP-native alternative exists then fine - go ahead and delete the links. But it is unreasonable in the extreme to censor these video links just because there is no WP-native alternative at present.

Thanks, mk 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)