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Talk Israel thread: This article details Jewish casualties but not Arab casualties, is it giving a NPOV?

You started the above named RfC thread recently. I have recently added a subheading restating the initial question as I considered that the discussion was veering off topic. I know that you also added other perspectives / rephrasings in regard to this question which I may have reverted and thought you should be aware that I have only gone as far as to refer back to the original question.

I would also be interested in hearing of specific reverts of information that I think that I would regard to be Censored.

GregKaye 12:45, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your work on editing the Israel article. I do not think the article has a NPOV, and I think it is anti-Arab. The article details many events with fewer than 50 Jewish deaths, such as the “On 11 March 1978, a PLO guerilla raid from Lebanon led to the Coastal Road Massacre, in which 38 Israeli civilians were killed and 71 injured” statement in the article. When I tried to add references to events with greater than 50 non-Jewish deaths, such as the Deir Yassin massacre and King David Hotel bombing, they where immediately reverted, and there is still no mention of these events in the article. When I tried to add casualty numbers to the one sentence referencing the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine, this change was also reverted. I believe all these events are at least as relevant to Israel's history as the Coastal Road Massacre, and should be included in a NPOV article. I believe they we deleted because most of the editors want an article that reflects their anti-Arab bias, and not a NPOV article. I am not Arab or Jewish, I have no bias feelings either way on the subject, and I am only interested in seeing a NPOV article. Gouncbeatduke (talk)

Semi-protection

I've semi'd the page due to harassment. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 08:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

• On a side note, I'd like to ask that whomever is posting the death threats and so on stop. Seriously, this is not the way to go about accomplishing things and it has been reported. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 08:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I missed it. Is there any way I can see how the "death threats" where worded? It looks like your superduper administrator reverts make it impossible to read. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 18:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, I got them via email. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 15:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

A guard kitten for you!

Couldn't help but to see that thread on ANI and thought your talk page could use some cheer and fuzzy protection in light of it. Keep up the good work and don't let childish behaviour deter you!

Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 28 Shevat 5775 16:30, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for my furocious guard kitten, I am sure he will keep my family safe from those making death threats. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Surely you mean his furry furocious fury shall keep the baddies at bay! No one ever gives me death threats. I'm jealous.... Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 3 Adar 5775 16:33, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Re: user page talks

Gouncbeatduke, you do have the right to ask someone to look into actions taken on your user page. However I don't think that directly asking (User name removed) in this manner is going to accomplish anything. I don't know if he's the person who is doing this and I have no opinion on that. However at the same time you have to consider this: what if he isn't? It's entirely possible that it could be someone else that is doing this and that (User name removed) is entirely unrelated to this. Having differences or issues with one another in other places on Misplaced Pages does not automatically mean that (User name removed) is the one harassing you and posting like this can in itself be seen as a form of harassment. Really, I don't think that there was any good way to go about asking someone directly about something like this, especially since even if you're correct (and again, I'm not saying that you are) it's extremely unlikely that someone will outright state that they made sockpuppets to make death threats against you since not only would that lead to a permablock and sanctions, but it could also potentially lead to legal actions off Misplaced Pages depending on where one or both parties live. Gouncbeatduke, I've reported the entire sockpuppet death threats to the Wikimedia legal team, who is looking into everything. If you want to get in touch with them then you can through this e-mail address: emergencywikimedia.org. I know that you must be genuinely rattled and even scared by the threats on your talk page. I've had people make threats against me in the past as well, but this just isn't the best way to go about this. I've removed the thread since there's no positive way that could end and I don't think you'd be able to get the answer you need. I've tagged (User name removed) in this but I'd like to ask that he not reply to this and I'd like to suggest that if possible, that the two of you avoid one another for a little while and if you two do need to revert one another's edits, that you go through another user familiar with the article/topic or through third opinion or dispute resolution. Hopefully things will cool down but right now I just don't think it's a good idea for the two of you to interact with each other. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 05:27, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

• Also, since he will obviously read this, I'd like to ask that neither of you use your own talk pages to make indirect comments to one another. I'd like to avoid this going to ANI, if possible. Like I said above, this is being investigated but if you want to directly talk to Wikimedia's legal department then you can through the address above. Now as far as the questions about the threats made on your page, there's no real way that I could let you see them on your talk page without undoing the deletions, although Wikimedia should be able to provide you with this since they have far more permissions/control on Misplaced Pages than an average admin does. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 05:34, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Dear Tokyogirl79, As the death threat editor appears to have used some software to mask his real IP address, I imagine Misplaced Pages’s legal team will recommend allowing any likely socks to continue, despite the death threats. I think you are correct that I made a mistake focusing on a suspect with a similar pattern of behavior, as it will be impossible to prove who was behind this. I expect the only way to deter whoever made the death threats will be if I continue to remove pro-Jewish/anti-Arab non-NPOV edits from Misplaced Pages articles, and he sees that his intimidation tactics do not work. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 15:42, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: If I may comment on something here, even though I'm not involved in this specific incident.... Even though there is no excuse whatsoever for threatening another editor with bodily harm (childishly or seriously), I do think that using terminology such as "Pro-Jewish" in this way is not what I, at the very least, would consider good practice as it casts us like some sort of political faction or idea whereas we are a collection ethno-religious groups. I speak as a Jewish Pro-Palestinian Zionist who wears a Jordanian shemagh daily (and who keeps all his views out of his actual editting). It might be better to refer to the actions of the other user as POV-pushing and anti-Arab (which clearly means hatred of Arabs, something I personally find revolting). Saying "Pro-Jewish/anti-Arab" is something I find really irksome and I'm not easily irked by anything (though more sensitive Jews might find it a bit offensive). For one, it makes it sound like Jews and Arabs are polar opposites, which we are not, and for another, as I said, it makes us sound like a bit of an agenda (which we might be for many politicians, but we're still people) or at least have an agenda (which no one told me about if we do). And yes, I would say the same thing about pro-Arab, pro-Kurdish, pro-Japanese, etc. I hope you'll take these concerns into consideration. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 30 Shevat 5775 18:33, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out. I plan to use the term "anti-Arab non-NPOV" in the future. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 19:03, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I forgot to add that I know you didn't mean it that way. Apologies if I came across as being harsh at all as it was not my intention, more some unsolicited advice which I hope is helpful. Also, the person whoever the person is that is making those threats seriously needs to reexamine their life, and if they are in fact Jewish, needs to stop embarrassing the rest of us (!יעלה, היה יהודי/ת באמת). Anyway, that's my two ago rot and I'll let you get this talk back on track. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 30 Shevat 5775 22:29, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I think you have NO reason to be embarrassed, and, even if it were true (and I am not saying it is) the bad behavior of one individual or a minority of individuals should never be considered a comment on an ethnic group or a religion (but I also admit to having feelings of embarrassment about jerks of my own ethnic and religious background). Gouncbeatduke (talk) 16:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

It's kind of an old Yiddish idea I'm getting at there. Back when Jews were all shtetly and timid, there was this idea of not acting shameful in front of non-Jews. (Pardon any mistakes as I don't actually known Yiddish) שאנדא פור די גויים "Shanda für die Goyim" (shame/disgrace in front of the goyim). The expression still survives, though not the attitude (at least not much). Judging by your potential stalker's long term abuse page, does seem like a rather unpleasant fellow. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 4 Adar 5775 20:51, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

He does sound unpleasant. I'm glad it turned out not to be the editor I asked about it. I still don't understand why that editor wouldn't give me a straight answer when I asked, but I suppose there are all sorts of cultural differences I don't understand. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 13:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

He was kind enough to create an account dubbing me "one of them self hatin' Jews" and used what Coffee could only describe as colourful language. Eh, cultural differences are always tricky. I'll never understand Californians, but Arabs, Israelis, Italians, etc. are easy by comparison. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 9 Adar 5775 23:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

I saw this right here and must give apologies for giving the wrong impression. I thought it was funny and was going to reply with something about that basically being our family Pesach dinners (my dad is the only one in his family who married a Jew), but never got around to it. There's very few things that actually offend me besides gross ignorance. But to answer the first question, yes, according to everyone who disagrees with them in a way where they can't form a civilised argument. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 27 Adar 5775 18:28, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Good to know. I know there are a lot of weird feelings that can come up when trying to joke about ethnicity. I love joking with my Irish friends about Irish being drunks, but when I hear some British guy with a public school accent make the same joke it suddenly isn't funny at all. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 15:24, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, I and many other Jews love a good Jew joke. The unfortunate thing is there are very few good ones, and many are quite lame. The edgiest and most creative ones (often Shoah related) can sometimes bowl me over with laughter. Jokes about Muslims and Arabs that just flat out ignorant prompt the opposite response (though estimating how many camels and goats one's lady friends are worth never gets old). And yeah, posh twats being arrogant is almost never funny (unless they are struck with a rugged soon after said comment). You know it's odd, public schools have a completely different meaning here and are often looked down on, but for the opposite reason. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 29 Adar 5775 02:28, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Your talk page - semi-protection

Hi Grouncbeatduke, I've semi-protected this page for three days because of renewed activity from the same individual. Sorry about the inconvenience.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Don't feel bad, I got this wee bit of Wikilove soon after: "Disgusting self-hater, you filthy traitorous vermin. Arab-loving freak" - I definitely love Arabs, but idk being about filthy and disgusting, self-hating or traitorous. I am rather loyal and arrogant after all and I do shower daily... maybe it's because I only shampoo every other day? I don't want my hair to dry out though... Though I also spend two months of the year playing in the dirt. You think that's it? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 17 Adar 5775 01:36, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

All archeologists are dirty. --Bbb23 (talk) 02:41, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh, mate, you have no idea.... Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 17 Adar 5775 02:48, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

It is always nice when you guys drop by, but I wonder why you don't just permanently semi-protect user pages like mine? Is it important to give IPs and new users a chance to edit user pages? Gouncbeatduke (talk) 13:53, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Generally, permanently semi-protecting a user talk page isn't great. There are times when an IP or a newly registered account may want to communicate with you. Permanently semi-protecting an editor's user page is not uncommon as generally only you should be editing it. Your user page is currently protected until February 2016. I can make it permanent. I can also semi-protect this page for as long as you wish, given the circumstances. Just let me know.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:23, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm no admin, but yeah, mentoring, responding to queries, sharing Wikilove, etc. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | 17 Adar 5775 14:41, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I guess I'll just assume the admins know best about this sort of thing, and let them block for as long as they see fit. Maybe if he keeps doing it, one day he will get caught and arrested. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 21:50, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Law

See below. I just saw your user page, showing the harassment you have had to put up with. I have never seen anything like that on wikipedia; it is totally unacceptable. It also may be illegal. I have posted some links below you may like to consider.

• http://www.fbi.gov/report-threats-and-crime
• https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/875

Oncenawhile (talk) 16:13, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@Oncenawhile: Interesting. Do you have any insight into the question here? Gouncbeatduke (talk) 15:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Some falafel for you!

ברוך שובי אחי Last time I was here I saw some accusation laden yet non specific message placed here (along with some shockingly abusive edits from an IP). I found nothing wrong in the, I think, vague references that the first editor had given and my natural course of action in a case like this would be to ask for justification in challenge to the accuser. I just thought I would run this by you first though. GregKaye 11:35, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Greg, thanks for the falafel. I don't quite understand what you are suggesting. I have tried to cover my thinking about how JarlaxleArtemis should be handled on my user page. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 22:09, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Israel

Hi. I don't know if you intended to do so, but your edit at Israel only had the effect of restoring the Jewish Virtual Library as a source -- despite the fact that it's been repeatedly rejected as a reliable source at WP:RSN. I think you meant to remove the addition of the text concerning casualties, not to restore a bad source. Thank you. — MShabazz /_Stalk 13:59, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, for some reason the Twinkle rollback failed when it hit your edit. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 14:28, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Smithfield Foods

Thank you for taking the time to remove some of the vandalism from the Smithfield Foods page. If you're interested in updating the page further, I'd be happy to supply you with any sourcing that I can. For instance, the governance section of the page is several years old at this point. Here is the current information: http://www.smithfieldfoods.com/about-smithfield/leadership. Also, I wanted to note that Smithfield Foods is still based in Smithfield, VA which I saw you edited. Thank you again for reducing the vandalism on Misplaced Pages. (Jeremy Smithfield (talk) 12:44, 8 April 2016 (UTC))

Finkelstein and the ADL - original research, no reliable source for ADL letter, undue

You have no reliable sources for this. No evidence that this is a significant view - please read WP:UNDUE. The bit about 'despite' his family etc is clearly original research/editorial comment which is forbidden on Misplaced Pages for good reason. See the NF talk page now. Doug Weller talk 18:02, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

As you have already edit war WP:censored the Finkelstein article to include only the ADL point of view, I am not sure what you want to discuss. I do not know who authored the "despite" comment in that article, and if you had changed it to more NPOV phrasing I would not have objected. I objected to your continued completed WP:censorship of all points of view in Misplaced Pages that to not conform to the ADL point of view, and your use of administrator privileges to edit war over all other points of view supplied by multiple editors. The wording I offered in the ADL article was:

In response to Finkelstein's criticism of the ADL, the ADL sent letters referring to Finkelstein as a "known Holocaust denier". Finkelstein is the son of two Holocaust survivors, most of whose family died in the Holocaust.

My wording did not contain the word "despite". The "despite" word came from another editor in the Finkelstein article, not the ADL article. As you are using your administrative privileges to edit war over and delete the contributions of multiple editors who's edits do not conform the the ADL point-of-view, and as that use of administrative privileges is what is always supported by the Misplaced Pages Foundation, I do no see the point of continued discussion. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 18:43, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Seriously? I've used my sysop tools? What privileges have I used? And you are misusing article talk pages by making personal attacks. Doug Weller talk 17:42, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

You have edit warred over multiple editors, violating the 24 hour revert rule on articles relating the the Israel-Palestine conflict. Any non-admin editor doing this on a pro-Israeli author's article would be blocked, but admins do it all the time to pro-Palestinian author's articles. The hypocrisy of the Wikimedia Foundation on this issue is sickening.

You began the personal attacks with your dishonest and unethical characterization of my edits on my talk page. Perhaps we can move on to the issues now. Do you intend to allow the latest addition of wording regarding Finkelstein to stand in the ADL article, or do you intend to continue with you campaign of WP:censoring the edits of multiple editors regarding Finkelstein? Gouncbeatduke (talk) 18:59, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand your comment about the WMF, they don't set policy. And I can't see where I've violated the 24 hour rule - specifics? Doug Weller talk 18:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Found 2 edits by Doug Weller on Norman Finkelstein

17:57, 09 May 2016 (diff | hist) . . (-612) . . Norman Finkelstein

17:31, 09 May 2016 (diff | hist) . . (-612) . . Norman Finkelstein

Note that I was NOT the editor you initially reverted, I was the editor defending the edit prior to your second revert within 30 minutes. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 20:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Removal of text such as my first edit isn't considered a revert. When I was new I shared your confusion. Doug Weller talk 04:57, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I have seen many, many, many people blocked for making two such edits in 24 hours on pro-Israeli authors. The Misplaced Pages definition at https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Edit_warring is "An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert". What you did was certainly that. But I understand that words no longer mean what words mean in the racist anti-Arab WMF world. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 15:04, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Then that's wrong. The documentation really, really needs to be clarified. You're simply wrong about me being anti-Arab or anti-Palestinian. Doug Weller talk 17:55, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I never said you were. I said the WMF world is a racist anti-Arab world. If you are totally even handed, and make 100 pro-Jewish edits and 100 pro-Palestinian, it doesn't matter because in the racist anti-Arab WMF world the 100 pro-Jewish edits will stick and the 100 pro-Palestinian edits will be reverted. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 18:04, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Discretionary Sanctions for American Politics 2

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Template:Z33 Please also be aware of WP:1RR on Hillary Clinton as well as additional restrictions that can be found at Talk:Hillary_Clinton. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:34, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

1. Finkelstein, N. (2003). The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering ((2nd ed.) ed.). Verso. p. xiii.
2. "Why is Norman Finkelstein Not Allowed to Teach?". Csun.edu. Retrieved 6 June 2013.
3. "How the ADL Fights Anti-Semitism". Normanfinkelstein.com. Retrieved 6 June 2013.