Misplaced Pages

:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Arbitration | Requests Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 03:04, 5 August 2016 editLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,503 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive195) (bot← Previous edit Revision as of 03:04, 6 August 2016 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,503 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive196) (botNext edit →
Line 8: Line 8:
{{User:MiszaBot/config {{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox}}|maxarchivesize = 200K |archiveheader = {{Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox}}|maxarchivesize = 200K
|counter = 195 |counter = 196
|minthreadsleft = 0 |minthreadsleft = 0
|minthreadstoarchive = 1 |minthreadstoarchive = 1
Line 15: Line 15:
}} }}
{{TOC left|limit=2}}{{clear}} {{TOC left|limit=2}}{{clear}}

==TripWire==
{{hat|{{user|TripWire}} is topic banned from all Balochistan related articles, broadly construed, for three months. Both TripWire and {{user|Kautilya3}} are placed on a 'casting aspersions' restriction (described in detail on their talk). This same restriction is applied to all articles in the India-Pakistan area, broadly construed. Further, any edit made by an IP or new editor alleging socking or meatpuppetry may be freely reverted and any accusations ignored on article or user talk pages. ] is the only place for such allegations. Finally, editors are warned from gaming the process by canvassing or other means; future disruption of this nature may result in a block. ''']''' ~ (]) 11:57, 29 July 2016 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning TripWire===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Kautilya3}} 23:04, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|TripWire}}<p>{{ds/log|TripWire}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:
]: ARBIPA
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
# (]) Reinstates an edit , for which another editor just got . The edit comes with a combative edit summary: "''They dont become unreialble because you say so.''" Dismisses the extensive discussion at by the : "''the sources are fine, it's your interpretation of them that is wrong.''"
# (]) Deletes content attributed to the ] (AHRC) comparing it to "Facebook". Repeats the revert , ignoring .
# (]) Adds "separatist fighter" as a LABEL for the founder of the organization. This fails to be NPOV because the founder was not a separatist fighter at the time and plenty of other sources do not use the description. In the , doubles down on POV and starts comparing the founder to Osama Bin Laden.
# CANVASSing for an RfC at ] without a parallel post to ]. The subject at hand deals with alleged ''Indian'' involvement in ]. (The RfC itself is now closed because it was initiated by a banned user, but that doesn't mitigate the obvious attempt of canvassing.)
# (]) Reverts well-sourced content of {{U|Bharatiya29}}and repeats the revert seven times further. The talk page discussion and is throroughly deadlocked due to TripWire's tendentious position and argumentation. The I propose are obsturcted.

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
# {{U|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} topic-banned the user from all edits related to Pakistani politics and Indian/Pakistani conflicts. FP's diagnosis: ''that you are a tendentious editor whose presence on Misplaced Pages is motivated almost entirely to a desire to push a certain national POV."

;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Future Perfect at Sunrise}}.
*Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on and .

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
The user came back from a topic ban about 6 months ago and went back to the old ways soon after. At the previous AE request on 10 April, I argued against a sanction because I felt the user was showing improvement and a lot of the activity at that time centered on a sock ({{U|MBlaze Lightning}}). That is not the case any more. The user's talk page discussion is merely stonewalling. They constantly , but never strive for consensus themselves. The POV that they push is not merely that of nationalism but of . Even AHRC's objections are brushed off.

The edit that breaks the camel's back is the latest edit on 9 July (). This one reinstates the edit of a user that just got topic-banned, deleting content sourced to scholarly sources and replacing it with OR. Two fake citations (one pointing to the last page of a book's index and another to a newspaper opinion column) appear, neither of which supports the claim that Gilgit-Baltistan "unconditionally acceded" to Pakistan. This is merely the State's propaganda that is being pushed on Misplaced Pages.

Most other users that have tried to reason with the user have given up in exasperation. I am at wit's end. I think it is time to take action again.

'''''Responses:''''' TripWire's long-winded, rambling response illustrates the same frivilous attitude that pervades all their discussions. This is not the place for content discussion anyway.
* Reinstating the banned user's edit at at ] was their first edit ever on Gilgit-Baltistan topics. The second edit at at ] was the brushoff: ''the sources are fine'', which completely ignores the preceding discussion. I see no effort to obtain consensus in this approach, or any regard to reliability of sources and Misplaced Pages policies. ''Which sources were fine?'' The last page of the index of a book? An op-ed that has no mention of "unconditional accesstion"? Why TripWire suddenly got interested in Gilgit-Baltistan at this time is another interesting question. (My own contributions to the articles can be seen on Xtools and .)
* The explanation that TripWire came to the page because of a twitter feed of anonymous Pakistani edits, is not likely. The last such edit on ] was . It is much more likely that they saw the posts of Saladin1987 on or and decided to be the Robin Hood. Saladin's versions on ] could not be reinstated because they had been revdel'ed. ] was next.
* TripWire also conveniently hides behind the screen of "defending Misplaced Pages against socks." But a sock has to be reported and blocked before we revert their edits. If, in fact, TripWire had known the sock's identity, why did they canvass at WikiProject Pakistan for the sock's RfC? Besides the sock, plenty of regular editors have also defended the content: {{U|Bharatiya29}}, myself, {{U|Kashmiri}} and {{U|Spartacus!}}.
* The defense that TripWire didn't know the relevance of the topic to WikiProject India is also disingeneous, because they themselves mentioned "India" over a dozen times in the . And, they as well.
* TripWire claims unawareness of {{U|Saladin1987}} being topic-banned; fair enough. But then the question remains what due diligence they did before reinstating content reverted by two experienced users: {{U|Thomas.W}} and me. Did they even look at the citations that were given?
'''''Nationalistic POV:''''' TripWire asks where they exhibited nationalistic POV. At Misplaced Pages, we aim to provide a fair representation of all the views expressed in reliable sources (]). TripWire's position in diff 1 is that of the Pakistani State, viz., Gilgit-Baltistan voluntarily acceded to Pakistan. Scholars disagree and they are dismissed. In diffs 2, 3, and 5, they support the State's views such as ] is an Indian spy and ] is a terrorist organization. All contrary views are dismissed. {{U|Nuro Dragonfly}}, a neutral third-party editor that came to mediate on the ] page, had this to say at an earlier ARE case: "''All attempts to create a neutral POV consensus in the article have been rejected by either FreeatlastChitchat or TripWire on all occasions, especially once the subject matter turns to the fact that everything that Pakistan has said on the matter is just a claim, exactly the same as everything India says is just a claim.''". -- ] (]) 21:33, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

{{hat|1=Response to TopGun and SherifffIsInTown}}
'''''TopGun comment:''''' I am afraid {{U|TopGun}} throws up a number of red herrings to obfuscate and derail the case. All the reverts mentioned above are to the content contributed by me or {{U|Bharatiya29}}, not those of any socks. And, I am not raising content issues, but those of ''conduct''. Yes, DRN is an appropriate venue when there is a genuine dispute. But if TripWire throws up nationalistic POV on a daily basis, DRN doesn't have the manpower to deal with it all. As for my taking responsibility for "sock edits," I only did so . I am sure TopGun would have done the same if people reverted Mar4d's edits when he got banned for socking. All this is irrelevant to the issues at hand. -- ] (]) 19:10, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

'''''SheriffIsInTown comment:''''' {{U|SheriffIsInTown}} is absolutely right that I edit all South Asia topics with the same "state of mind," viz., NPOV. I am not sure why we are talking about me here. - ] (]) 11:26, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
{{hab}}

'''''On The Wordsmith proposals:''''' I think we are beyond the stage of civility now. {{U|TripWire}} did learn something from their last topic ban. Their strategy now is to quietly push POV without being noticeable. For example, if we look at the , they deleted content sourced to scholarly sources <nowiki>{{sfn|Schofield|2003|pp=63-64}}</nowiki> and Yaqoob Khan Bangash's journal article, and replaced it with content citing fake sources (the same Schofield book with a meaningless page number 278, and an opinion column from Dawn , neither of which supports the new content). In fact the Dawn column argues the opposite point of view. This is just a reckless ] edit, meant to pick a fight. Anybody looking at the edit would simply think it is a content dispute and wouldn't know that anything is wrong. Likewise, the talk page comment, "{{!xt|The sources are fine. It is your understanding that is wrong.}}" is not particularly uncivil. It is the unwillingness to engage with the actual subject but nevertheless revert edits that makes it BATTLEGROUND. Even after I reported the issue here, TripWire didn't bother to find out what the issues are, calling it simply "WALLOFTEXT." I am not sure how civility parole would address this behaviour. How am I supposed to engage with an editor that has no clue what is going on?

I rarely recommend topic bans. I the topic-ban for {{U|Towns Hill}} and I also argued with {{U|Bishonen}} against the topic ban for {{U|Saladin1987}}, even though, ironically, the latter was banned for edit-wars and personal attacks against me. If an editor brings up valuable points and looks half-way reasonable, I prefer to reason with them rather than to punish them. In the case of {{U|TripWire}}, none of that works. I think topic ban is the right course of action here.

{{U|TripWire}} is of no particular use to Misplaced Pages. Other than the ] page, where their contribution is , no other article shows any contribution above 1-2%. Their main participation on Misplaced Pages has been to edit-war and disrupt other editors that do actually contribute. Before TripWire entered the scene in June 2015, the India-Pakistan space was quite stable. As {{U|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} has , TripWire's entry has been "{{tq|harmful to the project}}." Their presence and behaviour has set a bad example to all new editors and derailed even seasoned editors like {{U|FreeatlastChitchat}} . ARBIPA sanctions are here precisely to take care of editors like them. -- ] (]) 00:51, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

'''''On the proposed IBAN:''''' I have quite a few reservations about the proposed IBAN. But I promise to think about it carefully overnight. Meanwhile, I would like to request {{U|RegentsPark}} and {{U|NeilN}} to provide their input on the viability of the proposal. -- ] (]) 21:05, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

After an overnight consideration, my reservations about IBAN are unchanged. The edit restrictions on Kashmir conflict pages implemented by {{U|RegentsPark}} have been working well so far. I would welcome their extension to all pages involving India-Pakistan conflicts. As for the matter of DS socks or other socks, I have always acted within policy and will continue to do so. This is not the appropriate place to debate the policy itself. -- ] (]) 14:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

'''''On the socks problem:''''' TripWare states that I used {{!xt| edits/comments (diffs) against the sock here at the AE report}}. I have double-checked all my diffs and none of them involve any socks. On the other hand, until a sock is identified, reported and blocked, we must treat them like any other editor. I am at a loss to understand this idea of "supporting socks." -- ] (]) 18:13, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

'''''More on the remedies:''''' As I have said above, I welcome the extension of the ''entire'' package of restrictions {{U|RegentsPark}} implemented for ]. I am not confident that the aspersion restriction alone is enough. In fact, I don't believe a serious problem of aspersions on individual editors occurred. It did occur for sources, but that is, to an extent, legitimate, as part of interrogating the sources.

I am also not confident that we, as a community, are ''at wit's end'' yet. No serious edit-warring occurred in all the cases I mentioned. No serious breach of civility. Aspersions on editors was also not an issue. The problem was really disregard for Misplaced Pages policies of ] and ]. So I would prefer this to be treated as an issue of individual conduct rather than a systemic issue. -- ] (]) 17:07, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

'''''Final (?) comment on the remedies:''''' I don't think the remedy (2) is necessary because the aspersions were really cast on the sources rather than on the editors. But, since {{U|RegentsPark}} has proposed it, I will accept it, and aim to get better in future. The remedy (3) needs more clarity. Does "India-Pakistan articles" mean all of India articles ''and'' all of Pakistan articles? Or only India-Pakistan conflict articles? If the latter, does it include Balochistan conflict articles, which is where the problems have arisen at the moment? Finally, if TripWire is going to be sanctioned, I suppose they need to be told ''why'' they are being sanctioned. -- ] (]) 01:14, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning TripWire===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by TripWire====
Oh, so may ]. Will humbly try to answer:
*'''.''' This was a perfectly fine sourced edit by another editor which was reverted by Kautilya3. I, having found the edit legit, reverted him back (my only edit on that page). Per ], this is the normal sequence of events, why jump the gun instead of discussing it at talk? Second, there was no 'extensive' discussion as claimed, just a ] by him. He should have discussed the dispute instead of bringing it here.
:And how would I know that some user has been topic banned? And how could Kautilya3 ascertain that it was that particular edit which caused the ban?

*'''.''' This ] edit was neither RS nor encyclopedic. How can a petition/appeal posted anonymously at an 'Appeals Website' be reliable or encyclopedic? This was amply explained to Kautilya3 in the and even at the that AHRC isnt reliable nor official as the website which he conveniently ignored.
:I gave for the revert in the edit-summary, all ignored by him.
:It's strange that Kautilya3 himself in the same article, and when I revert his deletion of sourced content, he uses the same against me here. But when his own poorly sourced edit gets reverted, he ironically uses the same too against me?
:Moreover, Facebook example was used to make Kautilya3 understand that online appeals launched by random people cannot be used to build WP, or can it be?? How can an appeal launched at "FB Causes" be ] into saying that Facebook "severely" condemns the whatever action stated in the appeal? Especially when the appeal itself does not even use the word severely?? A classic example of ] and ].
:Last, the edit followed ], no edit warring, dear Admins, what's wrong in that?

*'''.''' This shows Kautilya3's bias. Kautilya3 used source and attributed it . But when I used Kautilya3's own source to add portion of info which was deliberately omitted (that the subject was a "separatist fighter"), I am projected as the bad guy?! I even mentioned this in the and at the (ignoring of which was fine by Kautilya3, but he accuses me of ignoring talk discussions). How on earth can only Kautilya3 use portions of the source which suits his POV and omit, and then revert the portion of the SAME source (already used by HIMSELF) that does not line with his opinion? How can this be acceptable? Admins???
:For clarity, Kuatiliya had made more than 19 edits at BSO in one day, and I made fol 4 edits (not reverts):

:*. ''add''. I removed Kuatilya3's ] which was not supported by the given source and replaced it with what the source said. (The complainant to please remind me which policy did I violate by doing so?)
:*. ''allegedly''. I added the word allegedly which was supported by BBC. (yes, BBC! What's wrong in that when Kuatilya himself has used blogs and Baloch propaganda website frequently to build the article?)
:*. ''expand per source already used''. I added "separatist fighter" by REUSING the source already used by Kuatilya3 (wonder why would he miss it at the first place).
:*. Got a blanket revert by Kuatilya3 alongwith a vague reason.
:*. ''Removal of sourced content. Did you even read the source? Stop pushing your POV''. The ONLY revert that I had made to Kuatilya3. Prior to this revert, I also . How else does WP work?

:Now, everybody is welcome to point out where did I go wrong so that I may improve myself. If not, ] will be in order.

*'''Regarding this .''' One, how can a post about an RfC concerning Pakistan at ] be termed 'Canvassing'? I seriously object to Kautilya3's poor choice of words. Two, I had genuinely thought of posting the same to ] but didnt do it as the issue related to Balochistan and Pakistan. A Pakistani province (unlike Kashmir which is disputed) had no direct link with India, but may be I should have done it because the discussion did involve India. This was my first such post at Country Project Pages so I was unaware of the procedures, and if the Admins think I should have posted the same to ], I apologise for not doing it as a genuine mistake.

*'''.''' This is no diff. Just a facade. But allow me to explain what Kautilya3 wants to say:
:] has contentiously been infested with socks, particularly {{u|DarknessShines2}}, a notorious sockmaster. Just see how his socks have made POV edits at the page and opened up discussions which were fervently supported by Kautilya3:
:*{{u| Freedom Mouse}} a banned sock added POV and then . This led to exhaustive discussion just because the sock was supported by Kautilya3. Had he not done so, precious time could have been saved. Thanks that {{u| Freedom Mouse}} got banned soon and the duel ended.

:*The same sock then again caused disruption which was again supported by Kautilya3 which again led to a lengthy discussion namely . Later, when the second sock got banned the discussion ended with a consensus against Kautilya3.

:*Now most recently his third sock {{u|2a00:11c0:9:794::5}} re-added the same content which led to six talk-sections, namely , , , , , and .

:All these sock-edits were being diligently supported and fueled by Kautilya3. He even removed longstanding content on sock's suggestion and prolonged the discussion until the sock was banned and {{u|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} hatted the entire discussion.

:That was me alone Vs 3 x socks and Kuatiliya3 and yet he cannot point out a single policy that I actually violated during the entire discourse. What does this say about me? Am I the bad guy here or the one reporting me? I fight 3 x socks, its supporters, follow polices, the socks then get banned and WP stays as it was before socking, and this is the reward I get in return? Can anyone deny that I wasnt fighting socks or that they werent banned during the discussion or that I upheld WP as a project? I am seriously getting tired of my efforts here. The bottomline here seems that if you fight socks, it's you who would get blocked even though you dont violate any policy but just give lots of diffs for people like Kuatiliya3 to quote here randomly while the socks who doesnt care for a block and its supporters go around disrupting WP.

:Now, if challenging socks/vandals all while remaining within WP polices and following ] is wrong, please penalize me. But if I was able to prevent socks from disrupting WP without edit-warring and by participating in ALL the discussions and by following ] then why Kautilya3 is accusing me of doing 'seven reverts' i.e. digging up my entire history and cherry-picking random reverts that I might have made?

:The real question here should be that why a guy who prevented socks from disrupting WP is being reported by the same editor who have been in support of these socks, and has been let scot-free?

*'''Topic ban:''' I was topic banned a '''year''' from now (not 6 months). That's history. No need to bring it up over and again. I have improved, changed and my edit-history is a proof. By posting links to the topic ban thrice, Kautilya3, what were you trying to gain?

*'''AE's:''' Just a way to divert attention. Last time, even the editor who reported me was about to get Boomeranged until he had to apologize and withdraw his AE report against me for the report being frivolous and false. I guess, had it actually boomeranged, things could have been simpler.
{{hat|1=Kautilya3's Selective/Discreet Approach to push Nationalistic POV}}
*Kautilya3, apart from supporting socks, always advocate other editors not to use ] to construct articles as he considers them to be unreliable. Two latest instances are and (more examples can be dug if required). What Admins should take note of is the second, BSO page example. not to use reliable ] like BBC, Al Jazeera to add content, but at the same time he totally reconstructs the '''entire BSO''' page from ] including blogs and unreliable websites which totally aligns with the Indian government's POV on the Baloch issue. Examples:
:*. Uses , a Baloch (news) website having C of I. And a NewsOrg, .

:*: Uses Aljazeera.

:*: Uses , a Baloch NewsOrg with C of I.

:*: Uses a Blog and a NewsOrg .

:*: Uses an unknown website/NewsOrg , .

:He ventures as far as quoting unreliable blogs, Baloch propaganda websites and even ] to push his nationalistic POV, but when I reinstate a SINGLE 3rd-party book-sourced edit at Gilgit-Baltistan, he cast ] and accuses me of POV-pushing? How can this be acceptable at WP?
:All above edits are from the same article for which Kuatilya has dragged me here. I dont object to the content provided it is well sourced but then Kautilya should follow what he advocate to others and stop ].


*In an another example of bending the rules and pushing nationalistic POV, Kuatilya , who champions ], lectures everyone to follow RS and conveniently bypasses WP policy and his own words and pushes the Indian state POV against long-standing agreed upon content which was ]. How conveniently he changes "Indian-administered region of ]" to "Indian state of ]" despite that the precisely and clearly uses the term "Indian-administered-Kashmir". And then strangely enough ask others to gain consensus for reverting the POV edit back to what was already long-standing. Brave enough, he accuses others of pushing POV.
{{hab}}
{{hat|1=Response to Kautilya3's additional comments}}
*I get my feed from a that posts edits made by Pakistani IPs on any WP page. My edit-history is a proof that I have reverted many such vandalism from IPs. It's for the same reason GB article was on my watchlist, so obviously when I saw Kautilya3 reverting a perfectly sourced edit by a new user, I checked the sources and having found them correct reinstated the edit and followed ] by participating in the discussion. What diligence does Kautiliya3 expects me to show when I dont see any edit by {{U|Thomas.W}} on the recent page history and when all I can see is Kautiliya reverting a sourced edit merely by saying that it's not RS?

:'''I wonder, all this is infact a content dispute that Kautilya3 is unnecessarily highlighting here which should have been solved at the respective talks.'''

:All the rehtorics of topic-ban to that user is a facade Kautilya3 is trying hide behind. All I am concerned about is that the edit was sourced and was correct and was wrongly removed.

:As regards his sock-comment, what does it has to do with he accusing me of canvassing? Kautilya3 himself is known for . The socks were reverted per ] and discussion carried out. Kautilya3 should be asked, when he knew that it were sock edits, why would he support them, not once but thrice?

:His last point regarding canvassing, I have already admitted to the mistake, which otherwise is not an issue as already 4 editors mentioned by Kautilya3 himself were participating at the RfC, and the RfC was closed right after I posted it at ] for being opened by a sock IP. He is just beating a dead horse. Moreover, as per my understanding the issue concerned "Wikiproject Pakistan". And ] is followed by many editors including non-Pakistanis. By raising this point it shows the bias Kautilya has against WP:PAK editors

*No, Kuatiliya3 was not owning Bhartiya's edits alone, they were sock edits each and everytime. Bartiya29 was not even involved when the sock reinstated the edits and Kautiliya then had to . This was just his way of covering his tracks that he was supporting a sock. But Bharatiya29 just responded to this canvassing at his talk and didn't bother to reply to the discussion at the article's talk.
*Admins, can you please look into Kautiliya's repeated accusation of "pushing nationalistic POV" against me? ]?

*Kuatilya is juts trying to confuse the issue. What a six-month-old edit has to do with the recent editing of GB article? An edit on a page that was on my watchlist was subjected to POV pushing by Kuatilya, I saw that and took action. What he wants to imply by bringing up this point is beyond me.
{{hab}}
{{hat|1=Response to Bharatiya29's comments}}
*Please clarify what do you mean by that my behavior "has been disturbing"? Please quantify. We all have already agreed that only third party sources will be used in the article keeping in view its nature being a conflict and that both the involved parties will (always) try to present their POV whatsoever, how neutrally worded it may be. Now, if you cant present a 3rd party source to support your edit why the mud slinging? Your and Kuatilya's biased approach can be seen from the fact that when you want to push something you even find justifictaions to use sources having a C of I, and but when the other party says the same, you go back on your words. I have amply highlighted this point above, and Admins must look into this selective approach which games the system.

'''*Re Pakistan government's POV":''' A baseless accusation as none of the sources used in the article which say that India is involved in Balochistan are Pakistani, but instead are 3rd party independent/uninvolved sources. Whereas, Pakistani govt have been raising the issue of Indian involvement in Balochistan at international forums but it has not gain much currency. Conversely, it is the Indian govt that have bee specifically giving air-time to Baloch dissents and their separatists leaders to farther their views which you and the socks have been trying to push in the article. Also, as all this info is ONLY sourced from Indian sources, to me it seems that it is rather you and Kautilya3 who have been trying to push the Indian government's POV in the article while cloaking it as being NPOV. How can I do that when no Pakistani source is allowed in the article? If a 3rd party RS like a renowned US politician or a known website like BBC says something which might be inline with the facts on ground, blame the source not the one who is using them per WP polices. But if you blame the source, then sorry, but you wont be able to use the same source to support your POV. That's commonsense.

'''*Re BSO being a terrorist organization:''' What "3rd party" sources did India or you present to declare ] (ATTF), Al-Umar-Mujahideen (AUM),Babbar Khalsa International (BKI), Communist Party of India (Maoist), Communist Party of India (Marxist–Leninist) People's War, Deendar Anjuman (DA), Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM) etc as terrorist organization per ], less the law itself?? BSO is a Pakistani organization which was declared as a terrorist organization just like any other country-specific organization. Sorry, you are just trying to muddy the waters, nothing else.

'''*Re Bhartiya's new comments:''' First he says that there's no 3rd party source that says BSO is a terrorist organization. I responded to that. Now he talks about BSO's notability which was never under discussion. The notability issue was with Kareema Baloch, but here he directs our attention to BSO itself. Bhartiya is just shifting his goal posts as he cant find any worthwhile points to complain about. Bhartiya, this is not BSO's talk page nor DRN where you are trying to resolve a dispute. You had time to do it at the talk, which you did not. Why do it here? Your comments concerning a dispute wont merit a response here.

*....complaints' "own conduct may be examined as well."
{{hab}}
'''Re Regentspark:''' Sir, I do agree with you and will surely try to follow your advice. I cant help but mention that this is what I already have been doing - trying to gain consensus constructively by positively engaging with the involved parties including the socks. Surely, per your advice, I will try to improve if there's any shortcoming. No argument on that. As for the socks, well sir, if an info was not allowed to stay in the article previously, it means that there's been a consensus not to include it at some point in the past. Now, using socks to push it again wont solve the matter, nor would it automatically mean that the edit become legit because a sock is repeatedly trying to push it. Not unless fresh evidence is presented which may change the consensus, and I am all for it. Legit edits dont require socks to add them. That's what is observed in remaining Indo-Pak conflict pages. The rules regarding usage of sources were set by Kuatilya himself, and he alone cant selectively follow part of those rules, reject the other part that does not suit him, and then change the rules altogether when other editors try following them in letter and spirit. Thanks.
*'''Response to Kautilya3's fresh ]:'''
:*I think Kautilya3 misunderstood {{u|The Wordsmith}}'s advice against casting aspersions and that's why he has continued with his mudslinging unabated by even reusing the same diffs that he has already provided for like an umpteenth times. Or may be, his fresh aspersions against me were precisely due the same unbending, churlish attitude Kautilya3 have been displaying that have caused so much disruption on Indo-Pak topic area. I'll leave this for the worthy Admins to decide.
:*I also dont understand how and why is Kautilya3 drawing a comparison between me and other editors, while at the same time he also displays his 'holier than thou' attitude and his ample 'magnanimity' for not asking a topic-ban or some other punishment for editors X, Y or Z during his other conflicts. This misunderstood sense of superiority over other editors and authoritative behavior as if he sits at some higher pedestal among the hierarchy of WP coupled with the false understanding of being perfect and someone who can never go wrong is the actual cause of this commotion and the sole reason behind his which are nationalistic and which he often once confronted. Someone with such an attitude who also provides refuge to chronic socks makes it almost impossible for other editors to constructively engage with them.
:*Lastly, his comments about my contributions to WP is a textbook example of ]. Who made him the judge to decide that editors who only contribute a certain percentage of content to articles are the only legit editors? Going by his understanding, editors who only add/remove categories, only correct spelling/grammatical mistakes in articles, fix syntax, fight vandalism, prevent sock disruption etc should all be banned from WP, right? My contributions to WP are well documented in my edit-history and seriously I dont require any certification from someone. Speaking truly, it is precisely because of the refuge that editors like Kuatilya provide to chronic sockers which he then also uses to further his POV that editors like myself and those named by him above are unable to contribute much content to WP. One can only do so much in fighting vandalism, preventing sponsored socks from disrupting WP and contributing content. After all, editing WP is not my day job. I take WP as a hobby and apart from building it, preventing it from disruption goes along with my editing experience. That's what we all do at WP, dont we?
*'''IBAN''': I'll abide by what the worthy admins decide, but what remedy will be there to prevent Kuatilya from willfully/knowingly own chronic socks, barring him for assisting socks in airing their views, comment and actually edit indirectly through him despite being universally banned, and stopping him from using these socks/edits as a cover to push POV, which infact was the main reason behind what had ensued here?

*'''Response to Sutish''': I am sorry, but I think there's some misunderstanding here. The points I raised are not entirely groundless. I beleive that you must be familiar with a chronic socker {{u|DarknessShines2‎}}. Off late, he has gone so bold that he dont even bother to hide his identity as can be . Just see, despite being blocked after he has been interacting with him at talk. In another example, DS of the article once he was challenged. And it gets stranger when a blocked sock is able to get a FULL article published at WP which by {{u|Bbb23}}, {{u|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} and {{u|NeilN}} respectively and even then ! Why did this happen? Because it was Kuatilya who gave space to a blocked sock by owning his edits and let this cat and mouse game to extend over a considerable period of time by letting the sock to engage in discussions of considerable length and indirectly sponsor them. A few examples: , .
:The question here is, why block the socks if we are to listen to them?
*Allow me to explain how this works:

:*A sock ({{u|Curro2}}) which is properly cited/sourced at ] article. Then comes the second sock (DarknessShines2) and he builds upon the false case initiated by Curr02 and repeatedly removes the tagged info , , , . The ''game'' is then caught, DS' IP is blocked and the info is restored. However, Kuatilya uses the diffs to my attempt to prevent disruption to WP by socks here against me to add to weight to his AE report. Now, DS' sock is again back and precisely doing the same thing from where he had left. If, now, I revert the sock, I may very well be presented as the culprit once again.

:*Kuatilya tags some info in ] as , days later comes DS who and in that garb also removes Musharraf's statement which he was already trying to remove earlier but had failed and also remove two sources. Meanwhile, the same sock also goes on ] .

:*DS' sock goes on an edit-spree at ] page. Opens several talk-page sections , , , , , , , and . All these discussion are supported by Kuatilya, Bhartiya29 and Spartacus!. Kautilya comments in favour of the Sock at the RfC, removes content from the article as suggested by the Sock, and then uses my edits/comments (diffs) against the sock here at the AE report against me.

:Now, it isnt hard to see what exactly is going on here. How a group of editors is systematically ganging up against me to get me off WP without getting directly involved. I was reported at the AE previously by Spartacus!, an involved editor who also supported the socks, who then had to withdraw his report. Before that I was reported here by D4iNa4 with whom I have never ever interacted at any of the conflict pages, but oddly he reports me for the ''same'' articles. And now Kuatilya. The bottomline, the casus-beli for all this was DarknessShine and his socks and the open support provided to him by certain editors. Seriously, as I have mentioned earlier, DS have never attempted to hide his identity and it wasnt difficult for these editors to see that they are supporting a sock, but they did it anyway. Ofcourse, a lone editor like myself wont be able to counter this onslaught, still I never edit-warred, nor crossed 3RR and constructively engaged with all the opposing editors, No wonder none of them have been able to point a single policy that I have violated. But, ofcourse, if you get reported at the Admin Boards for enough time, you are bound to received some sanctions, and this is probably what they are aiming at.

*'''Re-Recap''': Sir, a topic-ban on me for Balochistan related articles for preventing disruption to them by socks? If that's how you want to go about it, I am afraid will continue to happen. Which will further be complicated when the counter socks will then do . I have no problem with staying away from the topic area provided there is a remedy for the sock-fest and the backing they get. I would humbly request to have a re-look at the decision as it was The WS himself who was against issuing topic-bans. Thanks.
:*'''Socking Aspersions''': First, I'll like to clarify that I have never accused Kuatilya for socking, only that he did nothing about it, rather a tacit support was provided - an action which was challenged by me and which infact resulted into registering this report. Following are just a few socks/IPs (of {{u|DarknessShines2}}) which were active (only) on Balochistan related articles (all previously being edited/watched by Kuatilya). These all are now blocked. But the point to note is that '''none''' of them were ever reverted and / or reported to SPI by the complaint or the editors who have commented against me. All of these were blocked either by an SPI by myself, some other editors or directly by Admins once it was brought to their attention. Topic banning me from Balochistan articles may provide a free-run to these socks, unless there's an alternative. I would request the Admins to go through the block log / contribs of these socks and you'll know what I mean (Data from ]):
::*{{u|2a00:11c0:9:794::3}}
::*{{u|2A00:11C0:9:794:0:0:0:5}}
::*{{u|2a03:4a80:7:400::/57}}
::*{{u|Freedom Mouse}}
::*{{u|2A03:8180:1101:B3:0:0:0:7}}
::*{{u|82.21.35.147}}
::*{{u|Azad Baluchistan}}
::*{{u|Azad Balochi}}
::*{{u|2A00:11C0:8:794:0:0:0:7}}
::*{{u|2A00:11C0:8:794:0:0:0:8}}

====Statement by TopGun====
I commented on the last TripWire AE and generally know most users/socks and disputes in this topic area so the admins might benefit from my views on this. I've been following three sets of socks closely and trying to get them blocked for a year now: . All three of them are disruptive, persistent and try to create this kind of mess each time they return. Unfortunately, there are not many active editors who recognize them and by the time I or another experienced editor report them, the victim articles are under complicated disputes. The balochistan conflict topic area is facing the exact same situation. To add to the fuel, Kautilya3 has demonstrated that he wants to assume responsibility of all edits of socks (in wholesale) as he ]. This can not be done without him having to clear ] instead of asking others to do so and is an issue per se as well. The Darkness Shines sock was just blocked after my report and his threads were hatted (as it happened in his previous attempts at disrupting the same article)... however the same is happening here with the dispute dragging on and Kautilya3 taking up the dispute. It's over and there's no need to drag it and if an editor thinks another user is ''not'' agreeing to their arguments, it's the basic right of an editor to participate in consensus in that way as far as they are civil and ] exists to resolve that to form a clearer consensus as already pointed out by an NeilN ], not AE. If the traveling circus continues even after the sock is blocked, their purpose is achieved.
*Furthermore, notifying ] is not canvassing. This was established at this proposal that was infact made by me: ]. If I, even being the proposer of a policy against such notices, can accept that consensus is against terming such notices canvassing, it should be easy for others to follow. WP:PAK is infact the right venue to notify per consensus. Canvassing would have been posting talkpage messages to select editors.
*This report is not as complicated as it seems and has been plagued with sock disruption which is common in this topic area.
*Both editors should be recommended to go to ] and if they can not resolve their issues by discussion, I would recommend a simple interaction ban where both can edit the article(s), participate in RFCs, discuss on talkpage (not with each other) but ''not'' interact with each other, reverting/reporting each other or edit parts of an article edited by each other. We need to get rid of reporting editors for the sake of reporting so add to this ban any other editors who are bent on wasting every one's time here at AE.
--<span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 18:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

====Statement by Bharatiya29====
TripWire's behavior at ] has been disturbing. He has constantly tried to block any attempts at making the article neutral and has objected to the addition of those contents which are not in agreement to Pakistan government's POV. The article has a section dedicated to Pakistan's allegations on India of supporting Baloch separatist groups. When I have tried to mention Baloch group's denial of this allegation, TripWire reverted me just because he maintains that the group is not reliable since it has been declared as a terrorist organisation by Pakistan government (although he hasn't cited any third-party sources to prove this). TripWire also seems to have an unfounded assumption that . His sole motive here is to confine WP to the views of the Pakistan government and he has argued against all other editors asking for NPOV.. ]] 13:51, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

'''Response to TripWire's comments''':What’s more disturbing than pushing a nationalistic POV? I never said that only third-party sources should be used; rather I have always said that the views of all the stakeholders should be mentioned with due weightage. Would you please explain to me that what does the Indian government have to do with interviews of notable Baloch nationalists by independent media houses? If you are really convinced that all the Indian media coverage is influenced by the Indian government then you must prove your point. I have repeatedly told you that the fact that Pakistan has declared BSO as a terrorist organisation is not enough to prove its non-reliability. ]] 08:38, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

'''Response to TripWire's new comments''':I have never said that '''only''' third-party sources should be used, instead statements by all the parties should also be given space. You should know that even if Karima Baloch is not notable as an individual, she is the chairperson of an involved party, and that is what makes her statement worth mentioning. I am being forced to discuss about all these stuff here since you are accusing me of having an biased approach. The discussion here is regarding your behavior, and so this was the last time I responded to your baseless allegations. ]] 15:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

====Statement by SheriffIsInTown====
Being an encyclopedia, Misplaced Pages is about fact telling and should be about fact telling. It should not be used for political propaganda. Using an encyclopedia for political propaganda defies its purpose of being an encyclopedia. Kautilya3's editing has been nothing but political propaganda. He tries to find less than encyclopedic information which suits his POV and adds it to encyclopedia. , a clear indication that he personally considers him a villain for pursuing to create modern day boundaries in South Asia. He also at one point said that and it seems like his edits are more centric towards an undivided South Asia. Not recognizing the present day boundaries in South Asia makes the region look like the map in ] article where there is no other country except India in South Asia. Going in with that state of mind and editing a contentious topic area such as ] can only create neutrality issues. Neutral editors like TripWire are needed to ensure that articles are not sidetracked by editors who display such political prejudice. If we will start banning editors like TripWire who did not violate any principle set forth in WP:ARBIPA but only challenged less than neutral edits of Kautilya3 who clearly displayed political prejudice at several times in their editing then we will only make Misplaced Pages, a non-neutral politically motivated information portal which is not what an encyclopedia should be. If anyone who deserves to be topic-banned from WP:ARBIPA is Kautilya3 and not TripWire. I am not sure if these findings can call for a Boomerang but if they do then I will suggest one against the nom. ] | ] | 11:04, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

====Statement by D4iNa4====

Report is legit and action is necessary, since TripWire came off from a topic ban just some months ago, he had to be more careful but he is not. ] (]) 17:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

====Statement by Sitush====
{{ping|Lord Roem}} IBANs just create more drama, as is nowadays frequently noted at ANI. Such a remedy will achieve absolutely nothing here. I could have predicted where this will end up even before TripWire's previous sanction and I really shouldn't have to spell it out: sooner or later they will be indef'd, unfortunately. And if there is blame to be attached to Kautilya then any remedy should be proportionate, bearing in mind the concept of first "offence".

I think you (all commenting admins) might benefit from giving NeilN some time to respond as they're relatively familiar with the subject matter and the participants (both those specifically named here and more generally in the context of South Asian articles). - ] (]) 22:30, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

And from TripWire after my message above says it all. If they think Kautliya is tag-teaming/meatpuppeting then they need to prove it, and ditto for the ludicrous claim that K is socking - ] is >>>> thataway. It is demonstrative of the battleground and nationalist-centric position that TW adopts and it needs to stop. Just do that topic ban, please, and if deemed necessary then give K a slap. - ] (]) 00:15, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning TripWire===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*The last time an Enforcement request was made against TripWire, it was dismissed as frivolous and was about to boomerang when another admin allowed the filing party to withdraw. This one is more complicated. As I am not an expert in India-Pakistan relations, I'll reserve judgment until some other editors and admins weigh in and hopefully offer more context. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 17:04, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
:*{{ping|TripWire}} Your statement is far beyond the limit. Please refactor for length, or hat unnecessary parts. Thank you, <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 21:53, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
*I'm going to leave this to someone else to judge but TripWire should note that reinstating edits made by sockpuppets is perfectly valid and repeatedly invoking the fact that the edits were originally made by a sock is not constructive. At some point, you need to accept that there is support for that content and get down to the business of seeking consensus in good faith. If this closes with no action, I urge TripWire to constructively engage in the compromise discussion or resort to dispute resolution where sources can be evaluated, npov can be judged, and consensus wording hammered out. It is true that this area is plagued by socks and that their presence is disruptive, but that should not be used as an excuse to avoid a consensus seeking discussion. --] <small>(])</small> 15:02, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
*I've rescued this from premature archiving. The diffs I see here could be interpreted as tendentious editing, but they could also be seen as good faith efforts to improve these articles. I'm far from an expert in this topic area, so I'm unable to decisively determine which. The rhetoric from editors on both sides of the nationalistic conflict further obfuscate the matter. That being said, I don't see anything that rises anywhere near the level of making a block or topic ban necessary. My instinct is that it would be best if TripWire were admonished for tendentiousness, and works to be more careful in the future. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 14:12, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
*After reading the walls of text here and on my talkpage, plus the copious diffs presented, it is clear that there is a huge problem in this topic area. The battleground mentality is pervasive, and nobody here has entirely clean hands. Something obviously has to be done. However, I'm not convinced that handing out a few topic bans will actually solve anything, and there are a number of editors who have terrible attitudes but nonetheless contribute quality content. I'm thinking that we need to get more creative with Discretionary Sanctions than we ordinarily do. I'm not sure what the exact solution is, but I'm thinking something along the lines of a topic-wide ban on casting aspersions. There is also ] for a civility parole placed on individual editors, with varying results. I would rather not have to go there, but I won't hesitate if I think it necessary. Before actually enacting anything, I'd like input from some other AE admins. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 18:14, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
*I've taken the time to go through this as well. I'm with The Wordsmith on their hesitation for a new topic ban here, but I do like TopGun's suggestion for an interaction ban. This would allow Kautilya3 and TripWire to edit the content in dispute and seek content dispute resolution while cutting off an aspect of their editing which is disruptive. If tendentious editing continues after a sanction like that, I'd then come to the conclusion that a topic ban is necessary. I'd like to hear {{User|The Wordsmith}}'s views on this idea before implementing it. As for your proposed civility/casting aspersions restriction, I personally would prefer a more focused remedy than something topic-wide, at least at this point. ''']''' ~ (]) 16:26, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
*:I would be willing to give a more conventional two-way IBAN a try. We can always revisit the civility parole idea if necessary (and I'm sure this topic area will be back at AE again), there's no need to be hasty to impose an old restriction that hasn't been tried in years until the conventional means have been exhausted. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 16:43, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
*::Definitely. I'll hold this open for another day to see if there's additional feedback from other admins or the editors involved. Otherwise, I'll close this with a two-way IBAN under the usual parameters: "banned from all interaction, undoing each others edits, making reference to or comment on each other, replying to each other in any discussion, editing each others user talk space, or filing ANI or AE reports about each other except to clarify or abolish this interaction ban or to report violations of the interaction ban." ''']''' ~ (]) 17:01, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
*Pinged here. While I'll be on here, it will be only for short stretches of time. I might be able to go through this in the next day. --] <sup>]</sup> 21:15, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
*Ping response. I'm not a big fan of IBANs because they end up creating more drama than is good for Misplaced Pages, especially when the editors in question overlap in editing interests. I'm busy in real life and cannot look into this in detail but, and this is in extension of what I've said above, it does seem to me that Kautilya3 has been making a good faith attempt to seek a consensus solution while TripWire has been stonewalling (re the discussion on 'compromises' in ]). The easiest short term suggestion is to topic ban TripWire from Balochistan related articles for a brief period (3 months) and put both editors on an aspersion restriction (no commenting that any editor is biased or has a nationalistic pov). I implemented an aspersion restriction on Kashmir conflict related articles which worked well there (though it seems to have driven the problem into other areas) and making it a blanket restriction may not be a bad idea. --] <small>(])</small> 00:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
:*The aspersion restriction is an interesting idea, ]. How did you phrase that in the past? ''']''' ~ (]) 05:07, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
::*Thanks for the link, ]! ''']''' ~ (]) 05:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
*To preserve my sanity I refuse to admin or edit in this area but I think RP's suggestion on the aspersion restriction is probably the best way to go and it should be applied to any and all articles in the India-Pakistan conflict area. The text of that is . &mdash;]''']''' 05:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
:*An additional element that I can think of that'd be helpful would be DS semi-protection (I don't think the 50/300 rule will be incrementally helpful here though) of both the article and talk pages within this topic area. As was apparent even in this ARE, a lot of the disruption originates from a handful of sockmasters, mostly IP socking, though some pick up accounts soon. This would also have minimal collateral damage as very few real new editors come to Misplaced Pages thinking "I'll go edit about this conflict and ]". In addition any time an IP or new editor throws out an accusation of the other person being Nangaparbat or DarknessShines, that should result in a block as it just proves that they aren't new. &mdash;]''']''' 14:44, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
::*I like the idea of an aspersion restriction on India Pakistan conflict articles. With the caveat that it is not always clear that an article is about the India Pakistan conflict. For example, the Balochistan related articles, the ones that are the source of this AE request, appear to be only peripherally associated with that conflict but, somehow, India vs Pakistan has become the flashpoint there. I guess a 'broadly construed' would address that but, clearly, we've got to put an end to this "you've got an Indian POV" or "you've got a Pakistani POV" stuff. That's not productive and overpowers the discussion on content. --] <small>(])</small> 00:46, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
*I concur with the above suggested restrictions, along with a reminder that posting amounts of text that could bore a judge is disruptive and sanctionable in itself as an effort to bludgeon others into submission. ] (]) 21:33, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
*There are two major issues exacerbating the conflict here. 1) IPs and "new" editors on both sides alleging sock and meatpuppetry. 2) Pakistan's and India's antagonistic history being reflected in their respective media and other sources (think reading news reports from the U.S.A. and the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War). Thus, one editor's reliable source is another editor's propaganda machine. So, in addition to the aspersion ban (I don't think an interaction ban would work given overlapping interests), I'd like to propose that any edit made by an IP or new editor alleging socking or meatpuppetry may be freely reverted and any accusations be ignored on article or user talk pages. ] is the place where established editors can present their cases. A more formal venue will hopefully discourage these hit-and-run accusations. I have no good solution for the second issue. I would usually recommend ] but frankly, we don't have enough uninvolved editors who would be interested enough to pick through the issues. On the Balochistan conflict talk page, I made this suggestion: "If you are stuck, then perhaps ] could help? Or each of you could create a separate section on this talk page, proposing your specific wording and sources, and then others could comment, focusing only on content." That got zero responses which may indicate editors are pretty much tightly tied to their positions. If that's the case, we can start by enforcing strong and strict aspersion restrictions on everyone involved in the area (comment on the content, not the contributor) along with a directive that activities that would normally get your hand slapped (e.g., canvassing, cherry picking content from a source) will result in a block or topic ban. --] <sup>]</sup> 03:58, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
*:Thank you for your input. I agree on the aspersion restriction. Redacting spurious accusations of sockpuppetry is also something I can get behind, and can be folded into the aspersion restriction sanction. Your last part I tentatively agree on, only because this area has factions that are so deeply entrenched that nothing short of extraordinary measures will dislodge them. In situations such as these, Arbcom has repeatedly passed an "At Wit's End" principle, which states "In cases where all reasonable attempts to control the spread of disruption arising from long-term disputes have failed, the Committee may be forced to adopt exceptional measures as a last resort for preventing further damage to the encyclopedia." I believe that is what we're facing with India-Pakistan. We would have to come up with proper language to log as a sanction, but I support the idea of adopting seemingly Draconian measures as a last resort. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 14:08, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
*Alright, to sort of recap here, it seems there's consensus behind the first two and proposals for the second two: (1) a short topic ban for TripWire from Balochistan related articles, (2) putting TripWire and Kautilya3 both on an aspersion restriction, (3) an aspersion restriction writ-large for the entire India-Pakistan topic area, and (4) possibly a 'socking accusation' ban, as proposed by NeilN above. Have I missed or misinterpreted anything? This AE request has gotten uber complicated so I want to make sure I--or any other closing admin--has everything straight. ''']''' ~ (]) 20:59, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
*:That's my understanding. I would support the second two as well. ] (]) 21:50, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
*::That is well summarized Lord Roem. I support all 4, including the socking accusation ban. We should make it clear, as NeilN says, that socking accusations can only be made in a formal SPI case and nowhere else. Also, I'm assuming that the aspersion restrictions apply to any articles that have an India-Pakistan overlap broadly construed and, of course, they apply everywhere to Kautilya3 and TripWire. --] <small>(])</small> 01:49, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
*:::Support all four but would like to know how short the short topic ban would be. Would like to see some language strongly discouraging gaming (e.g., canvassing, selective use of a source, etc.). --] <sup>]</sup> 03:50, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==HappyWaldo== ==HappyWaldo==

Revision as of 03:04, 6 August 2016

"WP:AE" redirects here. For the guideline regarding the letters æ or ae, see MOS:LIGATURE. For the automated editing program, see WP:AutoEd.


Noticeboards
Misplaced Pages's centralized discussion, request, and help venues. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the dashboard. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see formal review processes.
General
Articles and content
Page handling
User conduct
Other
Category:Misplaced Pages noticeboards

    Click here to add a new enforcement request
    For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
    See also: Logged AE sanctions

    Important informationShortcuts

    Please use this page only to:

    • request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
    • request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
    • request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
    • appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

    For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

    Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

    To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

    Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

    The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

    All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

    The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

    1. ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
    2. request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
    3. submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

    Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

    A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

    Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

    An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

    • The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
    • The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
      • the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
      • the restriction was an indefinite block.

    A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

    • a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
    • a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
    • a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

    Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

    Standard of review
    On community review

    Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

    1. the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
    2. the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
    3. the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.
    On Arbitration Committee review

    Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

    1. the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
    2. the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
    3. compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.
    1. The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
    2. This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.
    Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

    The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

    Appeals by sanctioned editors

    Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

    1. ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
    2. request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
    3. submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-en@wikimedia.org).
    Modifications by administrators

    No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

    1. the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
    2. prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

    Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

    Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

    Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

    Important notes:

    1. For a request to succeed, either
    (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or
    (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA
    is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.
    2. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
    3. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
    4. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.
    Information for administrators processing requests

    Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

    A couple of reminders:

    • Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
    • When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
    • Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
    • More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

    Closing a thread:

    • Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
    • Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
    • You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
    • Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

    Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

    Arbitration enforcement archives
    1234567891011121314151617181920
    2122232425262728293031323334353637383940
    4142434445464748495051525354555657585960
    6162636465666768697071727374757677787980
    81828384858687888990919293949596979899100
    101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120
    121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139140
    141142143144145146147148149150151152153154155156157158159160
    161162163164165166167168169170171172173174175176177178179180
    181182183184185186187188189190191192193194195196197198199200
    201202203204205206207208209210211212213214215216217218219220
    221222223224225226227228229230231232233234235236237238239240
    241242243244245246247248249250251252253254255256257258259260
    261262263264265266267268269270271272273274275276277278279280
    281282283284285286287288289290291292293294295296297298299300
    301302303304305306307308309310311312313314315316317318319320
    321322323324325326327328329330331332333334335336337338339340
    341342343344345346

    HappyWaldo

    HappyWaldo (talk · contribs) is blocked for three days for violating their topic ban. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 00:33, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning HappyWaldo

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    PeterTheFourth (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:12, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    HappyWaldo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Topic ban from post-1932 American Politics :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 30 July 2016 Editing Milo Yiannopoulos, a person closely related (broadly construed) to the topic of post-1932 politics of the United States.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning HappyWaldo

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by HappyWaldo

    I knew of this but didn't know it was enforced or reached any kind of conclusion. For some reason my alerts don't show up on some computers/devices. Anyway, I don't think it's fair that user PeterTheFourth remove Milo's views on feminism, esp the quotes. It demonstrates Milo's provocative, humourous style, and provides necessary qualifiers. PeterTheFourth contends that it's too long, whereas I think it needs further expansion, along with Milo's views on Islam, BLM, and other matters he frequently discusses. - HappyWaldo (talk) 05:20, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning HappyWaldo

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I imposed this short topic ban on HappyWaldo as a result of edit warring on the page for the second time in a month. The sanction was posted on their talk page. Clear violation deserves a first block, probably a few days. I see this as pretty unambiguous. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 15:48, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
    • I will close this as such. The violating edit was almost a day after the topic ban was imposed. I don't buy that the alert didn't show up; that'd be an infinitely regressive defense since it's unprovable. Unless there's evidence to the contrary, there's no reason to doubt that the message showed up. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 00:33, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

    Doc9871

    Doc9871 (talk · contribs) topic banned 1 month from all pages related to Donald Trump by Bishonen (talk · contribs), and is further warned that any disruption in the topic areas covered under Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2 will lead to an extension and/or broadening of the ban. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 21:07, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Doc9871

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:06, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Doc9871 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2 :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    On the talk page of Donald Trump

    1. Personal attack. Particularly strange since it was made right after I agreed with him
    2. Discussing editors rather than content. Assuming bad faith. Disruptive derailing of discussion. Note edit summary where he "clarifies" his "PA", which is an admittance that he is making personal attacks.
    3. Again, discussing editors rather than content. States that I "have no business editing this article" (because... he decided so)
    4. Threats and continued refusal to discuss content rather than editors
    5. Refusal to address the issue, restatement that he will "challenge" all my edits, pretty much states that they do not plan on abiding by 1RR on the article.
    6. Another personal attack. False claim.
    7. "Shut up. Signed: everybody". A very explicit personal attack.
    Note that most of these comments were made AFTER a notification of discretionary sanctions was issued:

    On the Donald Trump article itself. Please be aware that the article is under a 1RR restriction:

    1. 1st revert Note that the edit summary is false - the info is in fact in the source as has been pointed out prior to the edit on the talk page
    2. 2nd revert Note that the edit summary is false. In fact, it's ridiculously false since the text is in the source almost exactly the same (allowing for paraphrasing). For reference the source is here.
    3. 3rd revert Note that the edit summary is misleading (and nonconstructive). My source was an improvement over the previous source.
    4. 4th revert This edit summary makes absolutely no sense. What does "Nah. ..." mean? The claim is that the edit was "too sloppy" because of the use of a singular "period" rather than "periods". This is about as spurious and petty of a revert/edit summary as I've ever seen on Misplaced Pages.
    Note that all but the first two of these were made AFTER a 1RR notification was issued: (both notifications were removed)
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

    blocked as part of Arbitration Enforcement on two previous occasions, both fairly recent, for exactly the same article.

    1. Blocked for violations at the closely related Donald Trump presidential campaign article.
    2. Blocked for 1RR violation at Donald Trump presidential campaign article article.

    In regard to the second diff, in case Doc tries to argue that the above listed edit were not reverts, please note the discussion that followed his May 2016 block where the blocking admin, User:Coffee explains to him precisely what a revert is. So he knew he was doing bad.

    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

    See above. The user has been sanctioned on these articles under DS previously and also received a recent notification (I was not aware he had previous blocks in this area until I started writing this report)

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Personally I can't tell if this is some kind of personal grudge (the nature of Doc's comments come off that way) or it's just the topic involved. Either way, it's clear that the user has decided unilaterally that I should not be allowed to edit the article for some reason, and has proceeded to edit war, breaking not just 1RR (which the article is subject to) but even 3RR, making very petty reverts. My edits didn't even change the text, just improved the sourcing so this is clearly a WP:POINT violation, where Doc is basically saying "I will not allow you to make a single edit to this article". Even putting aside the edit warring and the personal attacks, this is disruptive and unacceptable.

    In light of the previous blocks the user received on this very article on a very closely related article ("Donald Trump presidential campaign" vs "Donald Trump) I request a two week block from editing as well as a topic ban from anything related to Donald Trump and the ongoing presidential election, broadly construed.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:06, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    See also these two previous AN/I threads which document exactly the same problematic behavior in other areas. This means previous warnings have been issued. Repeatedly. a dispute with User:SMcCandlish, closed by User:John, and initiated by User:John (don't know how that ended up).Volunteer Marek (talk) 10:21, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Statement by (Doc9871)

    • Point #7 illustrates the extremely misguided nature of this complaint. "A very explicit personal attack". Yeah, right. This is a complete waste of time. Doc talk 09:48, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    • On the AN/I's - I don't recall having any further issues with that editor, almost a year ago. I didn't get blocked or topic-banned in either case. So it's really a stretch to even bring it up. Doc talk 10:30, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Bishonen definitely has an axe to grind here. For the record: I've never socked, never lied about socking, and never supported socking. Doc talk 10:56, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    • You are not an uninvolved admin. You are inarguably involved and have an axe to grind with me. I do not trust your decision to be neutral at all. Please note that the thread was not even open more than a few hours before this decision was handed down. This is grounds for immediate appeal. Seriously not in line with due process. Doc talk 11:58, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    • SMcCandlish, thanks for another thorough breakdown of my behavior and how it should be effectively addressed. I think it's a little beyond the scope of the Trump stuff though, maybe? Thanks fer stoppin' by. Doc talk 12:39, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    Statement by Johnuniq

    Would admins please explain to Doc9871 that whacking people with a wet trout is not a substitute for a calm exchange of views, and this diff at User talk:Bishonen#August 2016 is entirely inappropriate. I see several aspersions being cast above, and no evidence. Johnuniq (talk) 12:05, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    Statement by SMcCandlish

    I'm reluctant to get into any dispute involving Doc9871, but this is the same problem as last year. Volunteer Marek diffed my previous ANI complaint, but there were two; the second also closed without action, despite being about immediate resumption of the same behavior after a warning. No consequences = no impetus for adjustment.

    There's no excuse for comments like "You really have no business editing this article", and others diffed by Marek (there is no requirement that editors be neutral, only content must be; are any editors neutral about Trump?). The "Don't challenge me ... You have no chance getting me on a "personal attack'" battlegrounding mirrors the stuff last year (e.g.: "Open an AN/I on me if you want." and several other such 'I'm invincible' challenges, "Ask around if I am one to quarrel with. I will 'Wikilawyer' you, and really good. You don't have to like me: you have to reckon with me.", "You're playing with fire. You better know when to recognize this.", "I will fight this PC nonsense until the bitter end."). (Actually, I just realized this previous matter really is American-political, an anti-progressivism stance.)

    Doc9871 uses others' block logs as weapons, and struts that he is immune to repercussions just because his own block log is clean , , , (samples from his months-long, bad-faith-assuming and veiled-threat abuse of a single editor, Ihardlythinkso, in a pattern repeated later with me). WP does not need a gangland kingpin. This behavior has to stop.

    I suggest prohibiting Doc9871 from:

    • Namecalling or questioning the good faith of other editors
    • Menacing other editors on the basis of their administrative enforcement history regarding matters unrelated to the topic
    • Trying to hound other editors out of a topic
    • Threatening any editor with harassment, battleground, or editwar tactics, or issuing 'you can't do anything about me'-type challenges.

    Give escalating blocks for recurrent transgressions. This would nip this battlegrounding problem in the bud. All four of these behaviors are consistently exhibited in Doc's aggressive soapboxing against Ihardlythinkso, myself, and Volunteer Marek in series, over a long time; it's not a fluke or coincidence. AE should put out Doc's "fire", since ANI never results in action due to Doc having a bit of a fan club.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅ᴥⱷ≼  12:29, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    @Bishonen: I honestly think the approach I outline above, without any initial block or a particular topic ban, would be more effective, because the behavior is not actually localized. I was once subject to a "not questioning good faith" sanction myself, and it markedly changed my approach to other editors, away from my habitual Usenet-style "verbal combat" tactics. (To someone habituated to it, it does not seem wrong, and it takes a while to learn why it is in this environment and how to shift). It's a form of teaching contextual manners and distinction-drawing. I have faith that it would work in Doc's case, while a not-that-short topic ban will probably feel unfair and punitive rather than preventative, and may just increase the angry mastodon mode in the long run. I also speak from experience here, having been twice subjected to short-term TBs, in ways that effectively supervoted in favor of the other party and gave them free reign, leading to a major mess that had to be cleaned up after the TBs expired (and one of those parties has been indeffed; I was right, just being a WP:JERK about it). I think the cases are parallel; there's a good chance that the underlying NPoV issues that Doc is trying, intemperately, to address are legitimate. So a TB rather than some behavioral fencing might negatively affect the content. TBs are a hammer that should only be used on the nails of long-term (or suddenly massively disruptive) patterns of localized disruption, in my view (not as a matter of strict rules, but of what works and what does not). Matters like this are screws, not nails, and need a more subtle tool.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅ᴥⱷ≼  13:04, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    @Bishonen: It could be a bit fuzzy, but "questioning the good faith of other editors" it not very fuzzy at all, as it directly addresses what the editor writes, in public view, about another editor's motivations. My own restriction of this sort was very fuzzy, reading "prohibited from assuming bad faith about other editors", a matter of mind-reading thoughtcrime, and people did attempt to game it (unsuccessfully).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅ᴥⱷ≼  13:36, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    Evidence that we already know the TB will not be effective: "You really think this is going to teach me a lesson?", from Doc's response to the TB . TBs can also lead to cases of myopic "fight the injustice" WP:NOTHERE + WP:GREATWRONGS behavior (which is how and why the aforementioned party got indeffed). I would have concerns in this regard given Doc's followup comment, "What it teaches me is that there is no due process here. I was absolutely railroaded on this issue." The "issue" for him is "censorship" from a particular topic, and he believes the motivation for it is political (see same diff). This would not be happening if the remedy was directly and only targeted at behavior patterns across topics instead of just at his ranting over Trump articles in particular. That's all I'll say about it; I just don't want to be in an "I told you so" position a few months from now, with Doc blocked repeatedly, and sour on WP, instead of being successfully herded into being less verbally hostile (which for me was a difficult and probably still incomplete, but ultimately rewarding transition, with off-WP benefits).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅ᴥⱷ≼  14:10, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

    Statement by USERNAME

    Result concerning Doc9871

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I saw the edits on the article talkpage, and was just writing up a warning to Doc before this AE report; I've posted it now. As I imply there, I'm quite prepared to topic ban Doc from Donald Trump-related pages if he persists in his aggressive personalized talkpage posting. Perhaps we can await the result of my warning, as well as of the DS alert and this report, before taking any action. Noting, however, the nasty tone of even Doc's response right here ("probably because doing research is bothersome"), which doesn't exactly suggest he's currently taking any criticism to heart. Bishonen | talk 10:44, 1 August 2016 (UTC).
    • Adding: Actually, I hadn't realized that some of the worst posts by Doc on Talk:Donald Trump were made after the discretionary sanctions alert, which apparently, just like the warnings (including mine), made no impression at all. I've topic banned him for one month from all Donald Trump-related pages. Bishonen | talk 11:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC).
    • Reply to Doc: Yes, it's supposed to be simple. Discretionary sanctions are actually meant to make it simpler to ban disruptive editors from controversial pages; they're not intended to add a layer of bureaucracy. I'm using my admin discretion, as is the intention of the discretionary sanctions. I would have done it without this AE report — as I said above, I was already writing up a warning to you — and it would be a bit paradoxical to let the report prevent me. On the other hand, I haven't "closed" the report. If other admins disapprove of my sanction, they can decide per consensus right here to void it. (Or to extend it, for that matter.) I'm sure there will be more admin input — America by and large isn't awake yet — so I suggest you may consider defending yourself a bit better before they arrive. For instance, if you're serious about me being "blatantly biased", "looking to settle the score," etc, you may want to offer some evidence. I don't know what you mean by it, for my part. What score? Bishonen | talk 11:37, 1 August 2016 (UTC).
    • Reply to @SMcCandlish: you would address Doc's aggressive behaviour specifically, with a ban from questioning the good faith of others. I hear you, but the problem with that is that it has fuzzy borders. It's harder for the user to comply with, and to feel secure that he is complying with it. It's easier for others to play gotcha. A topic ban is a lot 'cleaner': simple to comply with, simple to oversee. That said, Doc can certainly be blocked if he persists in what you call a "Usenet style". I hope he realizes that he's on notice wrt to that now, especially as far as attacking Volunteer Marek is concerned. Bishonen | talk 13:27, 1 August 2016 (UTC).
    • I concur with the sanction applied based on evidence presented here. If the behavior continues after the month, we can revisit an extended TB. --Laser brain (talk) 13:15, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Their response in accusing Bishonen of "having an axe to grind" is both unhelpful and demonstrates they don't understand the problem with their behavior (and are thus likely to do it again). Also, see this on their talk page. Very much agree with the topic ban imposed. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:15, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
    • I fully agree with the decision by Bishonen; this is exactly the type of quick action to curb disruption that discretionary sanctions is designed to facilitate, and there was crystal clear cause for action here. Since SMcCandlish has also provided an indication that disruption has occurred outside the area of Donald Trump, I'll also warn in no uncertain terms that if this type of conduct occurs elsewhere in the area of American politics, the topic ban will be substantially broadened, and will be lengthened or made indefinite. Seraphimblade 04:16, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

    62.0.34.134

    Clear violation after several warnings. Blocked 72 hours. Seraphimblade 16:41, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning 62.0.34.134

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    RolandR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:11, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    62.0.34.134 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA3#500/30
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 08:18, 4 August 2016 Editing in the topic area despite repeated notifications that IPs are prohibited
    2. 17:06, 1 August 2016 Editing in the topic area despite repeated notifications that IPs are prohibited
    3. 12:33, 18 July 2016 Editing in the topic area despite notification that IPs are prohibited
    4. 13:36, 19 May 2016 Highly POV edit in the topic area despite notification that IPs are prohibited
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This editor has been repeatedly warned that IPs are prohibited from editing any article that may be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Yet the IP continues to make such edits. It would appear from the content that the same editor has been using this IP for several weeks,

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning 62.0.34.134

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning 62.0.34.134

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.