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Revision as of 07:57, 5 September 2006

David Jeremiah

Pastor of a church, and tracts/books of unknown dubious publishing. Created by banned user who was likely a follow of the pastor. Notablity not asserted. WP:RS not offered. Arbusto 01:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. The article claims: "Each weekday, Jeremiah broadcasts a message on over 900 radio stations." http://www.turningpointonline.org/radio_national.html appears to confirm this. -- TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 03:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Can we verify that from an independent source? Arbusto 05:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Appears to be a well sourced article that does establish notability. Not sure what is meant by, "Notability not asserted" when the article claims the subject is heard on 900 radio stations. Maybe needs more evidence or some editing done to the article but does seem notable and well sourced. Bagginator 03:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment As ive got nothing better to do tonight i'm going to attempt to source the materials referenced in the article with external links to Amazon and such. Those which cannot be sourced I will edit out. Bagginator 03:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Further Comment Havn't finished the sourcing yet but i'm curious about the charge of "tracts/books of unkown dubious publishing". So far the book publishers i'm come across are W Publishing Group, Integrity Publishers, B C M Publications and DJ Publications. The dual claims of dubious publishing combined with sourcing not offered confuses me. Without the sourcing how was it evident the publishers were of dubious origin? Hope my sourcing effort clears some of this up. Bagginator 03:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Some come from unknown publishers or no publishers. Getting a self published book sold on Amazon and B&N is very easy. Two examples 1) This one by David Jeremiah at Amazon.com is a new hardback for $6.00 with no publisher listed. 2) "DJ Publications" does not seem like a reputable publisher with 137 yahoo hits. Arbusto 05:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep About 48,000 Google hits, Amazon.com shows 127 books and audiotapes in various editions, dubiously published or not. Google shows various references to appearances on a large number of radio stations and mention by various religious commentators. Involved in some rather unfamiliar controversies (from my neck of the woods, as a total outsider) -- Light House Ministries accuses him of giving in to the temptations of "Contemplative Spirituality." Seems to be a notable enough religious figure to be kept. --Shirahadasha 04:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Shirahadasha. This guy is extensively published and followed. Shazbot85 04:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, pastor meets WP:BIO criteria and has written many notable books. User was not banned at the time of creation, so any deletion criteria does not apply here. --Terence Ong _{(T | C)} 04:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. The subject doesn't interest me, I suspect the books are of a low quality, but that's not the point. The article is NPOV, verifiable and verified, both of which are enough for inclusion. In addition, there's notability and also reasonable formatting (extenisve bibliography). Interlingua 04:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• • More Comments I edited the article in order to try and make it more agreeable to Arbusto. He doesn't like the lack of sourcing so I provided links to Amazon. He then reverted the edit. Is this appropriate? I commented on this further on the Discussion page of the article itself and on my talk page where Arbusto made me aware of his revert to my edit. Bagginator 06:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

What I wrote on your talk was:

I reverted the partial Amazon.com links because wikipedia does not offer business to book retailors. Imagine if every single book on wikipedia followed this suit; all books would be linked to one business. However, adding in the ISBN number, publisher, city, year, and page numbers would be good. Arbusto 07:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't adding the link to Amazon provide the reader with the ISBN number, publisher, city and year? Bagginator 07:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Yep, it sure does. Adding a Barnes and Noble page with that info linked to every book could do it too. WP:ISNOT a collection of links nor is it used for advertising products.

Adding a whole collection of links to the article without writing an article would provide the reader information that could be in a article, but it would not be encyclopedic. It would just be a collection of links.

Sourcing an article means providing substantive claims with references. Not linking things for sale to a merchant. Arbusto 07:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm really having trouble understanding your position here. Would you prefer I alternate links between Barnes and Noble and Amazon and whatever other online book source there is? The links added to the article are not for the purpose of selling books, they are for the purpose of satisfying your criticism. Adding links to Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other book sellers will satisfy your criticism of the article. Bagginator 07:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Do not link books bibliography to a place where books are sold. To verify the books in the Blibiography provide the reader with the ISBN number, publisher, city and year. For example, APA format.

My criticism on the AfD still stands. No one has added claims for notablity. Arbusto 07:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

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