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Is there any reason to have "Regardless of the controversy's explanation, cattle themselves usually do not have much future." under a picture of a cow? I would just remove it, but apparently its been removed and restored before. What place does a joke/sarcastic comment have in this article? --Yesukai 22:36, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

It is neither joke nor sarcasm, but a simple statement of perspective. It's also one of the few ways to illustrate the article — there don't seem to be any free images of Hillary Rodham from the late 1970s. Wasted Time R 12:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Does this page really need a picture of a cow? Really? I think most people interested in this issue would know what cattle look like. --BlackTerror (talk) 16:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is generally under-illustrated to begin with, so every bit helps. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Straddle mechanisms

Under "Likelihood of Results" I have been attempting to explain what I feel are likely method for achieving option 4 described in the preceding paragraph. My observation is based on experience as a professional commodities trader in the 1970's, as well as author of numerous articles at the time, two of which were published in Commodities magazine. Since few people understand the mechanics of futures contracts or straddles, I believe this explanation would demonstrate, hypothetically of course, how a broker who desires to favor one client over another, can do so, while assuming little or no economic risk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guardinvest (talk • contribs) 17:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

We already have an article on straddles, so no need to explain them here, just wlink to that. I've thus boiled down your description, and also eliminated this bit: "That Mrs. Clinton was unaware of any unusual arrangement stretches credulity in the opinion of many observers." You gave no cite for this, and it contradicts your assertion above that "few people understand the mechanics of futures contracts or straddles." Wasted Time R (talk) 03:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Journal of Economics and statistics

Marshall Magazine article here: http://www-marshall2.usc.edu/main/magazine/98winter/hillary.html . The Marshall Magazine article is not an academic article, it is an unsigned rehash of the Washington Post. Can anyone provide a full cite or a link to the "Journal of Economics and Statistics" article, or is that reference made up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Howardl52 (talk • contribs) 18:11, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The original source of the "Journal of Economics and Statistics" article finding is this mention in the Roger Morris Partners in Power book. The Morris book is about three-quarters reliable; things are fair at times, slanted at times, but usually not made up out of whole cloth. Nevertheless I haven't been able to find other evidence of this article, so I have some doubts. Wasted Time R (talk) 18:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This is the website for the journal, so it does exist, but alas they don't list their contents prior to 2004. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I have looked fairly diligently for evidence of this article about Clinton's cattle futures. Until someone can supply the name of the article and the authors names (and perhaps a corrected name and date of the journal), I am not convinced that such an article exists. The Morris book does contain this information, more or less exactly as it appears in wikipedia, but the Morris book does not list the article in its references, nor are the authors named. If Morris has such an article he may have misrecorded its provenance. Howardl52 (talk) 18:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

If we don't think the article exists, the proper course is to pull the material from the article text, not indicate doubt in the text. I sent an e-mail to SJES, we'll see if I get a response. Wasted Time R (talk) 03:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

If this is generally accepted Misplaced Pages policy/practice, then I suppose I have to accept it. But in my opinion, it is better to explicitly recognize that the claim exists, and then to explicitly challenge it's authenticity. This is the approach, for example, that Snopes takes with urban legends. The legend is listed, so you know they have heard of it; but the autheniticity is "unknown" or some such. Removing it from Misplaced Pages simply invites new users (who never make it to this talk Page) to add it again, thinking that they have an important contribution to make. In addition, leaving it posted with a challenge or question invites readers who have the citation to provide it.

If you read WP:V and WP:BLP, you'll see that Misplaced Pages intentionally tilts towards removing questionable claims, especially when living people are involved. This Talk page is our Snopes, where the claim is mentioned. Future editors will see it commented out in the main text edit, and see this discussion here, so hopefully they won't blindly add it again. Wasted Time R (talk) 19:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, I don't think that the Swiss JES is the only candidate. There is a German journal Jahrbücher für Nationalökonomie und Statistik (http://www.luciusverlag.com/shop/product_info.php/info/p9524_Jahrb-cher-f-r-National-konomie-und-Statistik.html) which is sometimes translated as Journal of Economics and Statistics. There is a Journal of Business Economics and Statistics. There is a Review of Economics and Statistics. There is an Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics. So if there really is such an article and Morris simply mis-attributed it, it will be hard to find.Howardl52 (talk) 18:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The German journal is unlikely, since it doesn't seem to publish English-language articles and these are two American profs. SJES is at least possible, because it has always published some English articles and because some of the articles you can see from their 2000s volumes are similar in scope or nature to what the Hillary article would have been like. But I agree, even if this exists, it may be hard to find. Wasted Time R (talk) 19:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I recently ran across what must be the article referred to here. It is in the Journal of Economics and Finance (not economics and statistics), and was published in 1994, not 1995. The authors are from Auburn and North Florida, and the results are more or less as advertised. I've added a description quoting the abstract and a link to the journal (though the article for me is behind a paywall).

Thanks very much for finally tracking this down! A mystery resolved at last. The Morris book was pretty sloppy with respect to details – he got the journal wrong, the year wrong, and the odds wrong. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

blatant synthesis

Re: (by a brand new account created just to revert). Please show me where the article in the Journal of Economics and Finance mentions Clinton. It doesn't. The "note" is just a quick calculation, under certain assumptions about risk and return. Somebody - whoever put this in - who has no idea about finance but who really wanted to hate on Clinton and insinuate wrong doing, went and found this paper, and SYNTHESIZED a conclusion out of this.

(btw, it wasn't just synthesis but sloppy synthesis. What's the probability that a golf ball hit by a golfer will land on one, particular, blade of grass? It's one in a billion before the ball is hit, and 100$ after. Same thing here. Whoever was doing this does not understand the difference between ex-ante and ex-post probabilities).

Please don't restore this.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Ugh. This is horrible too. USA TODAY did not "do a study", that's just stupid seeing as how it's a freakin' newspaper not an academic journal. For the same reason the Washington Post did not do an "analysis". The sentence starting with "However," is clearly some guy's original research. Likewise The National Freakin' Review is NOT a reliable source, especially for this info, nor does it do "analysis". The Marshall Freakin' Magazine is a god damn ALUMNI ASSOCIATION MAGAZINE. It's the crap they send you if you graduated from Marshall when they ask you for money. It's. Not. Reliable. The stuff about Refco is of topic.

This is a BLP issue. Don't restore this material without better sourcing.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:12, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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