Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:36, 11 September 2006

Welcome!

Hello, Paul venter, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --Bhadani 14:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

CMB

Hi Paul,

Just wanted to let you know now that the question has been archived that I haven't forgotten our discussion, I'd just got to the point where I wanted to refresh my memory of the stuff involved before I got myself in any deeper. I will get back to you when I've managed to find a decent chunk of uninterrupted time to really concentrate on it and get it straight in my own head before trying to explain it to you. Probably best if we carry on on talk pages, though, if that's OK with you? --Bth 15:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bth (ith, jth, kth?)

The world around us has waited for a few billion years for us to stumble on its mechanisms - a few weeks more will make no difference. However, I'm getting close to my threescore and ten.... never know when one's going to pop off! Thanks for the time and effort - I'm genuinely appreciative. --Paul venter 17:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

{{helpme}}

Hi Paul venter, you put the {{helpme}} template on your talk page. How may I help you? When you answer, please put {{helpme}} after the question again so that we know when to look again. - Tangotango 14:30, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

hi tangotango thx for coming to the rescue - i have uploaded an image of Canary Pine bark and would like to place it on the Canary Pine page.....how do i go about it.

Hi, simply put ] on the page. For example, if the image was called CanaryPine.jpg, type ]. The ], for example. There are many other features that are documented at Misplaced Pages:Images and Misplaced Pages:Extended image syntax. Hope this helps! Cheers, Tangotango 15:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Pine

Hello, I reverted your edits to Pine because we are using the spelling "Pinyon" on Misplaced Pages articles. Thanks, and happy editing! SCHZMO ✍ 22:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

{{helpme}}

An old article Sydney Robert Liebbrandt had the surmame misspelt. I copied the article to a new heading under Sydney Robert Leibbrandt. After checking that the old article had no links, I hoped that one could delete or redirect it. How does one go about it? --Paul venter 06:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually the way to move articles is with the "move" button (to the right of the "history" button), as discussed at WP:MOVE. We move articles instead of copy and pasting so the history of the article (who wrote it etc) remains with the article. I have fixed up the move. Sydney Robert Liebbrandt now exists as a redirect to the article (when you move a page, it automatically creates the redirect, which is very handy).--Commander Keane 07:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thx for helping - I discovered the move feature after I'd created the new page - too late!! --Paul venter 07:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Pincan21a.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Pincan21a.jpg. Misplaced Pages gets hundreds of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Misplaced Pages, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 14:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Helpme

Image:Drakensburgmountains.jpg should be renamed Drakensberg.jpg . "burg" means town in Afrikaans - "berg" is the correct spelling and means "mountain". The image illustrates the article Drakensberg and the suffix "-mountains" is a repetition of "berg" . How does one correct this? --Paul venter 21:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

There isn't an easy way. Since the image is on the commons you would need to go to the commons, save the image to your hard disk then upload it under the correct name. Then get someone at commons to delete the old image. Also, you would need to change every article (possibly in other languages) that uses the image. Keep in mind that the article title doesn't need to be accurate, it's just a file name.--Commander Keane 14:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I uploaded an image called Magaliesberg01.jpg, but the article Magaliesberg doesn't show the thumbnail!!!??? What stupid thing have I done (or not done)? Thx --Paul venter 19:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC) ((helpme))

License tagging for Image:MAGALIES.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:MAGALIES.JPG. Misplaced Pages gets hundreds of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Misplaced Pages, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 19:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Image:Drakensberg.jpg listed for deletion

—Bkell (talk) 01:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Your correction to Binary star

Thank you for pointing out an important error in Binary star. Nick Mks 19:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Indian timber trees

OK, I've done most of them. "Ironwood" and "Red cedar" are still unclear however... Also, some the common names correspond to more than one species, so for these I chose the most common reference. --Schzmo 12:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Swietenia mahagoni

Hi Paul - Swietenia mahagoni is the correct spelling (I know it's not what one might expect, but it is the spelling used in the original scientific description) - MPF 00:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the note; IPNI actually list all the variant spellings without favouring or rejecting any; looking through their Swietenia list, the basionym is Cedrela mahagoni L. Syst. Nat., ed. 10. 2: 940. 1759; it was transferred to Swietenia by Jacquin in 1760, and as afr as I can tell from the IPNI listings, that remains the correct name in Swietenia; the other spellings are all later (Lamarck on the early 1800s, and de Candolle a little later) and thus synonyms under the ICBN. The USDA GRIN also use Swietenia mahagoni, and they are generally very reliable in their nomenclature. I can't find any info to suggest there's been a formal proposal to change the spelling - MPF 12:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Your edit to James Kitching

Your recent edit to James Kitching (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Misplaced Pages articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // Tawkerbot4 17:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Umm, under the GFDL you can't pull stuff as other people have edited it. I've put it back to the image less one and sent a cpl emails til I can figure out what happened -- Tawker 22:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Images

In almost every case, images taken from websites or other areas on the net are not qualifing as "fair-use"..there are exceptions, but at this time, I believe that Misplaced Pages is going to do all it can to reduce the number of fair use images in this website to protect the GFDL license we operate under. When you go the upload page...you'll see a red box with the following:

• Images found on websites or on an image search engine should not be uploaded to Misplaced Pages.

(For exceptions, see Misplaced Pages:Fair use and Misplaced Pages:Free image resources.)

Click on the Misplaced Pages:Fair use and the Misplaced Pages:Free image resources blue links to learn more about we can and cannot upload into the website. The policies on these matters are not designed to discourage people from not editing but only to ensure we don't post copyrighted material, which keeps the chances of the website being sued minimized. Thanks.--MONGO 08:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

If you have the permission to use the images and it comes from the person or entity that holds the copyrights, then you must demonstrate that on the upload page of the images.--MONGO 11:39, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Has the copyright holder released the images into the public domain or allowed them to be used as free use? If the email you have says this and they understand this, then reupload the images with a copy and paste of the email or a copy and paste of a scanned letter demostrating that he/she has done this...then select the proper license from the license drop down tag...either "Attribution share alike 2.5" or "Attribution 2.5" I believe and upload the images. I never upload any images unless they are completely within the public domain or ones I have taken myself...so I don't know if I can direct you any better than this...let me know where the images are by linking me to the upload pages...or I'll just watch your edits and see how you do and try to make the corrections. I would have to say that the copyright issues regarding images is one of the most complicated things the regular editor will deal with, but once you figure it out, it starts to come naturally.--MONGO 15:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The image rendering software for wikipedia is messed up right now...make sure you add a scan of either the mail of the letter you recieved releasing the images as free use or into the public domain to the licensing section and/or a a note to check the discussion page of the image upload to see the notification of release.--MONGO 16:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Comments in Big Bang Article

Paul, on the Big Bang talk page you wrote that, "The history of science revolves around the contributions of dedicated and brilliant amateurs.(Perhaps this is material for an article that might instil some hubris in arrogant professional scientists). My view of a scientist is perhaps slightly broader than that he should have some paper qualification certifying his expertise in some narrow field. As for experience, a lot of professional scientists seem to confuse that with growing older, or with how many trivial papers they have published in a suitably prestigious journal. I have found throughout my life, that the true scientist is neither arrogant nor patronising, that he is unstinting in giving of his time, and that his curiosity about the world around him, knows no bounds. These are the people who stand out from the common crowd. Science is shamed by such vainglorious strutting."

Aside from your use of the word hubris as an antonym for arrogance (when it in fact is a synonym of it), I completely agree with the substance of your statement. Which is why - rather than strutting around in life talking about how great science is and lording it over other people - I have instead devoted myself to a tireless effort of public education, outreach, public lectures, tours of research facilities, volunteering at elementary schools, high schools, and colleges, tutuoring, collaborating with people from all over the world, and pushing myself to be a life-long learner, taking every difficult class I can and reading books for which there are no classes. In my enthusiasm for sharing this knowledge (and more to the point of improving the quality of articles here on Misplaced Pages), it may come across as hubris to you but you are honestly the first person who has mentioned something like that to me. And while your statements above ring true for science as a philosophy, that "amateurs" have been the backbone of scientific progress it is important to note that the amateurs you speak of have been individuals who have dedicated their lives and passion to studying those fields and support fields like physics and mathematics. They may have been amateurs but they also had aptitude. This category of lifelong passion is the one into which I fall, and in fact only recently did I finish my graduate degree and become, formally, a scientist. I have however been a scientist long before I got a degree, and while the degree doesn't make a scientist for sure the aptitude does and must. You cannot pick a person at random off the street and find that they have an aptitude for differential equations or the operation of x-ray spectrometers, or even basic calculus 101 for that matter. So when an individual with aptitude offers her or his expertise, it would be naive to call that hubris, especially when there is so much confusion and misconception on so many topics wihtin the sciences as fundamental as the second law of thermodynamics, basic vector algebra, and so on. So please don't take my comments on the Big Bang talk page as a personal slight against you. My desire, as always, is to hold Wiki articles to the highest standards and to share knowledge with others on topics for which many have opinions but few spend their lives devoted to the exploration of. My experience in the fields of astrophysics and engineering make me an asset to that end, not an arrogant liability. (please forgive all the prepositions) Regards, Astrobayes 22:32, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Astrobayes, quite right about hubris - I should parse my writing before hitting SAVE. Competence and aptitude, I am afraid, are not sufficient qualities to vouchsafe a scientist. In all my years of working with and in the scientific community, I have come to realise that there are vapid people sheltering behind the protective mantle of PhD's and the security of tenure. These same people are regarded as competent in their field. What they lack is quite simply curiosity about any other areas of life. To me, this curiosity is the only redeeming quality that we have and supersedes altruism, charity, love and of course faith and hope. I could happily share a desert isle with Adolf Hitler or Gengis Khan, because I think they would be truly interesting people and not the thorough villains which society has brainwashed us into believing. I digress....

To return, one of the necessary marks of the scientist (to my mind, obviously) is a curiosity about all things, and this desire to know can crop up in the most unexpected places. I have taught the basics of science to all sorts of people, and once in a while that golden moment arrives when you can sense the excitement and awe of someone's understanding a difficult concept for the first time - these occasions are precious. Somewhere in Misplaced Pages I wrote some rules for volunteers working on the reference desk to bear in mind before dismissing a question as frivolous or idiotic. Part of it was a reminder that potential scientists can come from the most unpromising backgrounds and that the treatment they receive, can douse the spark or turn it into a raging fire. Therefor, watch out for the facile use of labels like AMATEUR or INCOMPETENT, because they very easily turn into blinkers that can blind one to the truth.

To life!!! Paul venter 12:09, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Paul, you and I apparently share the same passion for life and curiosity about Nature. We might both agree with Einstein, who said "the great mystery of the Universe is its comprehensibility." I look forward to contributing to some of the same articles with you here on Wiki in the future, as we both have the same goal. And again, if what I stated came across as hubris, please accept my apologies. I cannot mask my enthusiasm to share my experiences working in the field of astrophysics and physics in general, but indeed you're right that it bears considering the backgrounds and sensibilities of others. Any can have passion about the natural world, and a little patience goes a long way. I must admit that I have grown frustrated over the years with some of my students not caring about science and math, and not only registering for the course ("to get the credit") but also then arguing about the subject material or sleeping through a discussion. I didn't intend for that frustration to translate over to my contributions and comments in Wiki. ...something for me to think about. Take care, and may the (c,G,W/Z,g) be with you! Cheers, Astrobayes 18:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Your contributions to Talk:Comair Flight 5191

When you make edits like this , you leave me no choice but to personally remind you of such policies as be civil, no personal attacks, and assume good faith. Please read and familiarise yourself with these policies as well as the five pillars of Misplaced Pages before participating further in this discussion.--chris.lawson 17:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Chris, I suppose one could use words like 'misrepresent', 'prevaricate', 'dissemble' and a dozen other euphemisms. However there is really no more polite or straightforward way of saying it. You provoke reaction by your unbelievably autocratic tactics, and your failure to apologise to your fellow editors for these actions, inclines one to believe that power has gone to your head. Then when your fellow editors respond in outrage, you shelter behind quotes from the Misplaced Pages policy. As I have pointed out to you, your actions might fall within the strict letter of Misplaced Pages rules, but the spirit you display is deplorable and will only serve to alienate other editors. Paul venter 18:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to say that there has been a RfC. regarding Comair Flight 5191 Since you have been a contributor to the article, I encourage you to add to the debate and to contribute to the article, in the future. Mytwocents 05:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List

Paul, I saw the list of passengers you added to the Comair article. I suggest that a separate page be added to Misplaced Pages to list the passengers and crew of Comair 5191. Other aircraft crash articles on Misplaced Pages do not include the entire passenger list. I have no intention of editing the article to change or remove the list, but if this were a separate article with a link to it from Comair 5191 then the same thing is accomplished. Mfields1 12:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, please see the ongoing discussion at Talk:Comair Flight 5191 under "Entire victim list". Peyna 13:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Your user page

Paul, one other thing, I noticed someone has used your User page to write something that ought to be on your talk page. You may want to edit it. Normally your user page should only be editted by you. Mfields1 12:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:3RR

You are now in violation of the three-revert rule. You shall immediately cease and desist from re-inserting the list of victims on Comair Flight 5191 or you shall find yourself blocked from editing Misplaced Pages for increasingly long periods of time.--chris.lawson 23:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Regarding reversions made on September 11 2006 to Comair_Flight_5191

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

Hello William, I think quite possibly I don't understand the 3 revert rule. The list of passengers which I added to the Comair accident article has been removed by chrislawson repeatedly. I have made what I feel to be a case on the discussion page for including the passenger list in the body of the article - I presume you read the relevant portions. The only reaction I got to my suggestion, was a revert. Now I'm a bit puzzled, so please enlighten me - if I added to the article and crislawson removed the information more than 3 times, is he not the person contravening the 3RR? regards Paul venter 10:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Were that the case, then yes. But if you look at the edit history, thats not what happened. As I see it, you reverted >3 times in 24h, and no-one else has. Talking about it is good, but doesn't prevent you being blocked William M. Connolley 11:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Umm. Chrislawson is far too canny to be caught like that - he makes use of the services of his sidekicks VxSote, LrdChaos, Peyna and Dblevins2. Have a good day! Paul venter 11:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I have also reverted the anti-concensus change for which you got a 3RR block, and I am certainly nobody's sidekick. Not even close.

In fact, this is a textbook example of why the 3RR policy works: If it really were a no-concensus one-on-one battle between you and another editor, then you are absolutely right, both would be guilty of 3RR and blocked accordingly. But that's not the case. Four or five editors have reached concensus, and you refused to accept that concensus.

Just because I happen to agree with Chrislawson doesn't make me some kind of lackey or sidekick, and it's offensive to accuse people of that. --Jaysweet 13:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Amen. Peyna 13:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Really! You happen to agree with lawson all the time; coincidence? I don't think so. If you can't think and act for yourselves and can only function when you're part of a gang, then you have no business in the pages of Misplaced Pages. And certainly if you can't spell consensus, then what are you doing editing? Incidentally, you should look up the meaning of the word - it is used to indicate a trend of thinking and wrongly to denote unanimity. In which sense did you use it? Paul venter 14:13, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

"You happen to agree with lawson all the time," you say?? Please see this section of the Talk page, where I accuse Chrislawson of failing to assume good faith because of his handling of another editor's contributions. (Incidentally, you can also see Peyna disagreeing with lawson at the bottom of that same section... "sidekicks" indeed!) I had only two interactions on that Talk page involving lawson, and in one of them I accused him of a serious policy violation! How can I possibly be his lackey?!?

I am a 100% independent editor, and it is an insult to me that you would accuse me of being someone's puppy-dog and agreeing with him or her as a matter of policy.

In fact, it turns out that I might agree with you on certain things -- I also believe that Misplaced Pages policies are too restrictive in some cases about what information should be included. I think that the desire to be "enyclopedia-like" is causing WP to jettison valid and useful content.

But you wanna know something? This website is 100% free. No fees, not even ads. Since we're not living in Communist Russia, that means somebody is writing the checks. Money for servers, money for storage space, money for bandwidth... As long as that's the case, I'm going to abide by the policies of the folks in charge. If that means excluding content I think would be useful, so be it. I don't make the rules.

(And yeah, I admit I have a mental block on the spelling of "consensus" -- I do consistently get that word wrong, and believe it or not, I actually appreciate the reminder. My grammar and spelling are leagues beyond the average person, and I damn well know it, so I'm not going to go away with hurt feelings just because I got one word wrong. But you're right, I need to be more careful on that one.) --Jaysweet 14:54, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I am also offended by that assertion... let's just leave it at that. VxSote 16:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

In fact, your last edit is another 3RR vio. I advise you to self-revert it, because if anyone asks for you to be blocked for it, you probably will be, and for longer this time William M. Connolley 11:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Please take the time to read the comments by Mfields and Mytwocents on the chris.lawson talk page. I really don't mind being blocked unjustly, but if it were done without your having read the background to this dispute, it would distress me greatly. Cheers Paul venter 11:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)