User talk:Timmy12: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 13:10, 22 September 2006 editTimmy12 (talk \| contribs)656 edits Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd)← Previous edit		Revision as of 15:39, 22 September 2006 edit undoJzG (talk \| contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers155,070 edits →Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd): or notNext edit →
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	== Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd) ==		== Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd) ==
			See ]; note that at least one univolved editor does not see a sockpuppet relationship. Please do not accuse people of being a sockpuppet unless you have substantial and credible evidence, prefereably in the form of a ]. <b>]</b> 15:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

	===]===<!-- keep THREE equal signs here, not two nor one. Remove this once completed. -->

	;Suspected sockpuppeteer
	{{user5\|Mattisse}}<br>

	;Suspected sockpuppets
	{{user5\|Timmy12}}<br>

	;Evidence
	Suspect is tagging the same set of articles previously tagged by ] and her other sockpuppets, continuing the pattern of tagging and/or vandalising articles on pagan writers and musicians, vis:
	*{{article\|Harvey Wasserman}} also tagged by Mattisse and puppet {{vandal\|NLOleson}} (see article history)
	*{{article\|Donald Michael Kraig}}, also vandalised by Mattisse sockpuppet {{vandal\|NothingMuch}}
	*{{article\|M. Macha Nightmare}} also tagged by Mattisse and puppet {{vandal\|ABSmyth}} (see article history)
	*{{article\|Raymond Buckland}} also tagged by Mattisse puppet {{vandal\|NLOleson}}
	*{{article\|Gilli Smyth}} also tagged by Mattise

	On most of these articles, the same tags are being placed as were placed by Mattisse and her sockpuppets.

	<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 13:30, 21 September 2006 (UTC{{{3\|}}})</small>

	;Comments

	;Comments by Neil916

	*On the ] article, on September 12th, user Timmy12 added the {{tl\|unreferenced}} tag to the article and a {{tl\|fact}} tag to a bold claim that Rev. Jesse Jackson referred to the subject of the article and another person as the "Woodward and Bernstein of the 2004 election" , . User Mattisse's edits on August 21st consisted of adding a proposed deletion tag to the article for being nonnotable, and the addition of the {{tl\|unverified}} and {{tl\|advert}} tags , . The edits appear justified, non-malicious, and not similar to the edits made by Mattise.

	*On the ] article, on September 16th, user Timmy12 added the {{tl\|fact}} tag to three claims of notability in the article . The tags seem appropriate to me. The four edits by user Nothingmuch consisted of three vandalism edits and adding the {{tl\|citation needed}} tag to a different fact in the article , , , . The edits don't seem similar.

	*On the ] article, user Timmy12 made one edit to add the {{tl\|importance}} tag and three {{tl\|fact}} tags to claims made in the article . The edits seem justified to me. On August 24, user ABSmyth made his/her only edit to the article, adding {{tl\|wikify}} tag to the article . On August 21, user Mattisse added the {{tl\|verify}} tag and {{tl\|importance}} tag to the article .

	*On the ] article, user Timmy12 added the {{tl\|unreferenced}} and {{tl\|importance}} tags to the article on September 18. I'm not sure I personally agree with those tags , but they don't strike me as malicious in nature. On August 23, user NLOleson added the {{tl\|citations missing}} tag to the article . The edits don't seem similar in nature, and in fact Timmy12 removed NLOleson's tag when he made his edit.

	*On the ] article, user Timmy12 made several edits on September 19, adding the {{tl\|music-importance}}, {{tl\|unreferenced}}, and {{tl\|advert}} tags to the article , added a {{tl\|fact}} tag to a claim made in the article , then battled reversions of those edits by user Ekajati and user Anger22. As an impartial observer, I don't disagree with the addition of those tags to the article. Mattisse's sole edit to the article on August 21 was to add the {{tl\|music-importance}} tag to the article .

	*The Timmy12 user has contributed to far more than just those five articles. The Mattisse user has contributed to far more than just those five articles. The fact that both users have contributed to those five articles is well within the possibility of being just a coincidence.

	*The {{tl\|Unreferenced}} tag has been added to over 22,000 articles on the English Misplaced Pages. The {{tl\|Importance}} tag has been added to nearly 3,000 articles. The {{tl\|Advert}} tag has been added to over 2,000 articles. I haven't even tried to count the articles with the {{tl\|fact}} or {{tl\|citation needed}} tags. These are clearly not obscure templates that are used by a relatively small number of wikipedians.

	*The Timmy12 account was created at 14:11 on September 8, 2006 and began editing immediately The edit contributions showed a knowledge of Misplaced Pages that was significantly more advanced than a typical new user. On September 3rd-4th, user Mattisse engaged in a discussion on his talk page that indicated that he was frustrated with recent events on Misplaced Pages and was advised to create a new account to avoid scrutiny. The user Mattisse did not contribute again until late on September 8th.

	*When the Timmy12 account was created, the user Mattisse was not blocked, so this does not appear to be a case of block evasion. None of the evidence points to any policy violations in edit wars (i.e. 3RR avoidance) or voting issues.

	--] (]) 17:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

	;Conclusion by Neil916

	* The evidence provided does not show that the contributions of Mattisse (and his proven sockpuppets) and Timmy12 are similar enough to demonstrate a sockpuppet relationship. In addition, there has been no evidence provided that if the two users are the same, that there has been any policy violation of ]. The Timmy12 user appears to be an active contributor, and while there may be some editorial disputes with other users here, they don't appear to fall into the category of malicious or vandalism.

	--] (]) 17:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

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Revision as of 15:39, 22 September 2006

S outhern forest-products and forestry: developments and prospects has been deleted. See Misplaced Pages:No original research. NawlinWiki 17:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

merge to Bioremediation

Hi,

please consider merging your article Bioremediation. into Bioremediation. Kpjas 08:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Say what?

To quote your edit on triphenylphosphine "DEAD) converts an alcohol and a carboxylic acid to an ester in carbon respiration." Vandalism or ridiculous or am I missing something?--Smokefoot 21:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Saw your note. I just couldnt figure out why anyone would insert a comment about respiration into an article on an organic reagent. It would be unfortunate if you ceased contributing just because of me, because you appear to have a lot to contribute. I am no administrator or anything official, just another person focused on inserting content for the common good. I also am still learning how to interact.--Smokefoot 15:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

You again?

Hello, Mattisse! -999 (Talk) 17:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Your unconstructive role on Athanasian Creed

Dude, if you have have any dispute about anything specific in that article, please question it SPECIFICALLY at an appropriate specific location, instead of adding a generic unspecific blanket "unsourced" template to an article which in fact is moderately well-sourced (certainly more so than hundreds of thousands of other articles on Misplaced Pages), or mechanically adding a "citation needed" marker to every single fricken section (including to the rubric of the text from the 1662 Book of Common Prayer!!!). AnonMoos 02:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Unconstructive

It is very rude to shout like that, AnonMoos! However, I agreed that Timmy is being a bit of a pest and hope he can get a life elsewhere, soon.

Vernon White 07:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

If he just adds unspecific templates to the whole article (or indiscriminately to every single section thereof) -- when those who probably know a lot more about the Athanasian Creed than he does seem to be moderately well satisfied with the current state of the article -- then he's not using the templates in a way that can reasonably be expected to result in useful improvement of the article. And if he can't tell the rubric of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer apart from the actual article text, then maybe he shouldn't be trying to edit the article in the first place... AnonMoos 11:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree too that Timmy12 "is being a bit of a pest" and I too "hope he can get a life elsewhere, soon". His normal (or abnormal) modus operandi is to insert citation requests throughout an article, usually when they are quite unnecessary or, more childishly still, when they are already satisfied (cf the reference to the work of J.N.D. Kelly, for example)! He has similarly vandalised the article on Billy May, for example requesting a citation for the simple, factual statement that May was signed to Capitol Records. His actions are just puerile. (Sorry, Timmy, I suppose I need a citation for that) For the record, Misplaced Pages's own guidelines are that "Attribution is especially needed for direct quotes, information that is contentious or likely to be challenged, and superlatives and absolutes." Shouldn't need spelling out, really. I guess that Timmy's rather bitter and twisted comments on his User Page give the game away. Or does his user name indicate his age? Gervius

However, Timmy's interventions led me to improve Davies Gilbert and learn about Creeds from AnonMoos. Perhaps he/she will dialogue with us about his reasons for trying to wind us up (need for disambiguation of this term!).

Vernon White 15:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Timmy12 repeating his mistakes

Some of the responses to your actions are "unfriendly" in tone because you consistently persist in your inadvisable actions, regardless of what advice or help people try to give you. Instead of constantly repeating your same old mistakes again and again, and ranting away on your User page, why not discuss and try to explain your actions here on this page (your User talk page)??? That would be much more constructive... AnonMoos 13:50, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I see the "Sock Puppet" accusation below and also ]'s comments. I feel that Timmy77 or whoever he/she is, may be responding to the adverse way in which WP initiates newbies. It's something of a wind up, to use a British slang expression. In my own case, I had spent a lot of time and energy drafting articles and checking sources and then was suddenly accused of being a multiple vandal. This was because I was using a public library internet terminal and some naughty boys on other terminals had been vandalising WP articles and blackened the name of the library service's ISP.

My original Username is now, effectively a "sock puppet" as I was advised to get a different ISP and Username. Eventually my old Username was unblocked but I had already transferred my contributions list to the new Username. The whole process was deeply unpleasant and co-incided with as complicated long-distance house move and job change. Can WP moderate this painful process or will it always be run by uptight thugs who speak gobbledygook? This is a question that Timmy12 and Wikid77 pose. I hope that the induction process can be smoothed and a discipline learnt in easy steps by all newcomers.

Perhaps the best advice is to take a break from editing and do something that is as far away as possible from the Republic of Misplaced Pages. I'm digging a big hole in the ground. I would particularly like to thank Timmy77 and AnonMoos for reminding me that there are better things to do thank responding pettishly to aggravation. . . BEST WISHES Vernon White 21:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, and I can't force Timmie to do anything, but if Timmie wants to get along, he should work towards cooperating to produce better articles (rather than making a point, or leaving his mark, or whatever it is that's motivating him now). AnonMoos 06:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Cole Porter refs

Hello, Timmy12. I agree with your user page: "Very unfriendly place around here" (amen). I saw your citation recommendations for the article "Cole Porter" and have begun adding references. I have noticed there are some Wiki gangs of cohorts forming cliques ("Cliquipedia"): they got me on the 3-revert rule ("Misplaced Pages:3RR") and disabled my user-id for 24 hours. I recommend the following tactics (which you might already know):

avoid popular topics: articles where contributions get reverted or twisted by clever edits;
make changes slowly: when rewriting an entire article, spread changes over 2 weeks or so;
beware cliques: if attacked by multiple cohorts, leave the article or try just a small edit;
find a niche: look for good topics that aren't popular targets of edit mania.

I have had many hours of "23" changes erased by flat revert, and also I have had an entire 10-page article deleted (within 9 days) by a collusion of "5 Delete votes" so I sympathize with your user-page comments. Perhaps the Wiki management will change some day to better encourage decent behavior; meanwhile, they haven't deleted all the useful information: feeding Wiki articles to ad-companies is too beneficial to remove all good information from the Wiki world. -Wikid77 00:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

Hello, Mattisse. Looks like I'll have to open another sockpuppetry case when I have time. Ciao. —Hanuman Das 13:08, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case

You have been accused of sockpuppetry. Please refer to Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd) for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with notes for the suspect before editing the evidence page. Hanuman Das 13:37, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Stay off my talk page

I deleted your message intentionally. Do not restore it again. Goodbye, Mattisse. I may not be able to prove it this time, but your "repeatedly" gives you away. I can only repeatedly have accused you of sockpuppetry if you really are a sockpuppet. Doh! —Hanuman Das 02:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, the actual giveaway terms were "constant" and "obsessive". I've only accused you once. How is that "constant" or "obsessive", hmmm? —Hanuman Das 02:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Harrassment by Timmy12

I have asked Timmy12 to stop posting to my talk page. I have stopped posting to his, but since that time he has repeatly posted uncivil messages, at current count, seven times. Please intervene. —Hanuman Das 03:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

But you only stopped posting today. Give him a little time, maybe. In the meantime, you can delete uncivil comments if you like. I'd bet he'll give up real soon. Herostratus 03:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

You wonder that I am irritated at Hanuman Das? And that makes a complaint to you? He has put the following on my user page (which is still there and I will probably get blocked or something if I remove it):

It is suspected that this user may be a sock puppet, meat puppet or impersonator of Mattisse.
Please refer to Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd) for evidence. See block log

Notes for the suspect

Notes for the accuser

And the following on my talk page:

--Sockpuppetry case--

Then he makes an administrative complaint you you about me because I get a little upset? What is going on? He has singled me out for some reason to harass. Why? I have never done anything to him and don't know why he has it in for me. I would like to complain about him and his behavior.

This Misplaced Pages is a rough place and not very nice to people who don't know all the ropes. Yes, I am beginning to feel hostile and not very friendly. No one has been friendly towards me here since day one. Timmy12 12:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Am I allowed to remove any of this abuse from my pages, or will this result in further accussations from Hanuman Das and attempts to get me discipled or banned? Timmy12 12:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S. again. He also put this on my talk page some days ago so you see his harassment of me is ongoing:

-- Sockpuppetry --

Hello, Mattisse. Looks like I'll have to open another sockpuppetry case when I have time. Ciao. —Hanuman Das 13:08, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Please get him to lay off me and stop calling me names. Timmy12 12:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S.S. And this from my talk page earlier:

-- You again? --

Hello, Mattisse! -999 (Talk) 17:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

This is why I don't read my talk page. Everything is unfriendly and/or doesn't make sense. Calling someone Mattisse is a slur at Misplaced Pages I can see that.

Please get these people to lay off. Take a look at my talk page. I can't even read it. Are Hanuman Das and Hanuman Das sockpuppets? Timmy12 12:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd)

See Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (3rd); note that at least one univolved editor does not see a sockpuppet relationship. Please do not accuse people of being a sockpuppet unless you have substantial and credible evidence, prefereably in the form of a CheckUser. Guy 15:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)