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Revision as of 05:33, 21 November 2004

imho South Tyrol is not an enclave region, as it has borders to Austria. --zeno 01:54 Jan 31, 2003 (UTC)

Deleting things

Hi 200.180.187.44 , could you please state, why you deleted this text? If there is a reason, it is ok. Please let me know, Thanks :-) Fantasy 16:02, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

German speakers

Germany approx. 82 m Austria approx. 7 m Switzerland approx 5 m Belgium, Denmark, Italy and Luxemburg 1 m France approx. 1 m Poland approx. 1 m Russia approx. 2 m

Together approx. 99 m

http://www.detlev-mahnert.de/deutsch_in_europa.html states around 100 million native speakers and 140 million total (only in europe).

http://www.rom.diplo.de/de/kultur/deutsch_lernen/dt-sprachenverbreitung.html " Die Zahl der in- und ausländischen Staatsbürger im In- und Ausland, die Deutsch als Muttersprache in Wort und Schrift beherrschen liegt bei ca. 91- 92 Millionen (Schätzung anhand der Einwohnerzahl deutschsprachiger Gebiete). Die Zahl derjenigen, die Deutsch als Fremdsprache beherrschen, wird zwischen 25 und 55 Millionen geschätzt. Deutsch ist die meistgesprochene Muttersprache in der Europäischen Union"

Where do the other 20 m German-speaking people live ? Do you want to include foreign-language speakers ? 62.104.210.101 15:35, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Most sources i know say approximately 100 million native speakers. Total is a little more difficult and could only be an educated guess.

Maybe this table can show it:

Frage: "Apart from your mother tongue, which of these languages can you speak well enough to take part in a conversation?" -

Dabei waren die 11 EU- Sprachen sowie die Antwortmöglichkeiten "other" und "none" vorgegeben)

In % Deutsch Französ. Englisch Spanisch Belgien 15,3 49,4 59,6 5,2 Dänemark 65,9 12,1 95,6 7,5 Deutschland 2,4* 17,7 70,3 2,3

   - West                2,9*     19,9             74,2             2,7
   - Ost                  0,3*       8,8             53,7             0,7

Finnland 23,9 8,2 91,7 2,0 Frankreich 12,7 6,5* 63,3 24,7 Griechenland 5,3 10,6 67,2 1,1 Großbritannien 11,9 28,4 8,7* 4,1 Irland 15,7 44,3 32,6 2,7 Italien 4,7 28,8 52,8 3,7 Luxemburg 90,1 96,5 76,4 8,5 Niederlande 65,6 25,2 93,6 3,1 Österreich 0,2* 17,0 71,7 2,9 Portugal 2,5 34,0 53,0 13,0 Schweden 32,0 13,2 96,0 7,4 Spanien 1,3 9,3 39,9 15,9*

But. Around half of all danes and dutch speak german. This already is 12 million. Maybe anouter 10 million or so in eastern europe. Those who speak german as second language must be in the 25 to 55 million range. The highest estimate of 55 million minus the lowest estimate and you have around 40 million who speak it as a second language. Thats why i came up with the 140 million speakers total.

speaking of which...

no more "famous speakers of". sorry to those who slaved over the 12 people on the list. it was clearly started as a prank, has no equivalent on other pages, and should be maintained, if anywhere, as a list of "languages spoken by" the lists of famous people. (someone really adventurous could try to migrate the "famous" lists with all their various attributes to a table in wikisource, and then set up a dynamic page which would let you see lists of famous people by whatever characteristics you like. eventually, I am sure this will emerge...)

History

Copyedit partly from Standard language. Katholic = Roman Catholic is correct!

Names of German language in other languages

Is this section necessary? I think it would be better to have these translations in the Wiktionary. --Bkell 03:28, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I am removing (commenting) the Latvian entry because it seems highly improbable that vāciešū (or its Lithuanian cogante vokiečių) has anything to do, etymologically, with the Indo-European root of deutsch. They should probably be classified under a heading of their own. Any idea ? Philippe Magnabosco 16:14, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I object the paragraph beginning with reference to Austria-Hungary. First, it's a factual non-sense, as there was no such thing as Austria-Hungary in the mid nineteenth century.
Secondly, Prague was never primarily German, if not for the brief period of 18th century, and even for that time, its "primary Germanity" could be disputed. I suggest rephrasing the entire paragraph to something more easily maintainable as true. --Marcvs 07:32, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to say the Habsburg Empire. I agree Prague used to be Czech, and was later Czech, so the German character was an "interuption" of sorts, but according to my figures, in 1815 there were 50,000 German speakers in Prague, only 15,000 Czech speakers. (A.J.P Taylor, The Habsburg Monarchy 1809-1918, p. 24.) By 1848 there were more Czechs, but German was still the primary language of public discourse. Lets not forget that Prague was called Prag at the time.

However, I was too categorical in my paragraph, and am more than wiling to see it rewritten to reflect some moderation.

Peregrine981 13:27, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

German is also the most commonly used language on the Internet after English.

First I dont know what precisely it should mean, second methodology of statistics which I had seen was not convincing. Wether German is second as stated in aticle or fifth as in or any other number from 2nd to lets say 10... it all doeas not make much sense. Wikimol 00:04, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

recently? gimme a laugh!

Until recently, however, German was printed in Gothic black letters (Fraktur, or Schwabacher) and written in Sütterlin.

This is true if recently means 70 to 90 years ago. :) -- Daniel FR 22:51, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Seems recent, in the life of a thousand- or so year-old language, but "recently" is fairly unencycopedic; the correction by User:J. 'mach' wust in response to the above comment by User: 217.186.189.246 is good for that reason. --Jerzy(t) 18:24, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

Mutual Intelligibility

Removed

Many dialects aren't understandable for someone who knows standard German.

as (poorly stated) and redundant to

Only the neighbouring dialects are mutually understandable.

Someone better informed may be able to effect a more accurate harmonization.
--Jerzy(t) 18:24, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

I've more or less reverted your edit and added some explanations. I hope it isn't redundant any more. J. 'mach' wust 10:26, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

language vs (language)

Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (languages) requires "German language" instead of "German (language)", and the rule is followed for hundreds of other language, so I'm at a loss as to why this article has been moved. Stan 05:33, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)