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Revision as of 10:48, 26 April 2017

Your draft article, Draft:List of French civil unrests

Hello, SimonTrew. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of French civil unrests".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Misplaced Pages, and happy editing. JMHamo (talk) 22:29, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Just kill it. Thanks for your work, too. Kill it. I don't think I did work on this or attempted to, it probably came around by way of WP:RfD. I don't tend to create lists. Just kill it. Si Trew (talk) 15:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Machine translation etc

I didn;t know you translated Chinese. Do you ever look in at WP:PNT, I can't remember ever seeing you there? Si Trew (talk) 06:17, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I rarely go there, but I quite like the new translation tool that you can enable in the "Beta" section, I think I have talked to you about doing this not so long ago, if there are any problems at RfD relating to Chinese words, I'm the one to go to. Remember that. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 06:21, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Ohh, a lot of peopole really do not like the new translation tool, or rather, the results of it when monolingual people assume that the results are just wonderful: interesting discussion on WT:PNT about that. Of course as someone who knows his way around a language it is probably quite handy but I always find it easier just to edit everything longhand (but not much comes up in French and even less in Hungarian, I will do a Spanish one on request but only if it is really a straight-facts article, geo articles etc, because any kind of subtlety or expert opinion with RS etc I would be out of my depth translating that kind of thing). I must remember that about the Chinese, yes, thanks. And in return, if you have any problems with people talking bollox then you know who is the best at that, yours faithfully Si Trew (talk) 06:27, 7 October 2016 (UTC) _{I presume I'm allowed to personally attack myself? :)}

One thing over in the discussion at WT:PNT (I was kinda pinged for my comments as I guess I am just about regular enough obviously it depends what turns up whether I do any work from there) is that I said that quite often I just do the "scaffolding" and let other people then fill in the meat of the text. (That's abbreviating my own rationale enormously). I don't just do that but I do tend to find that some editors are scared of all the templates etc and categorising, translating any wikilinks, translating the titles of sources, generally Wikifying the text even if I don't do much on the translation of the text, I tend to find then other editors once the "scaffolding" is in place are often quite eager to translate the text. One of the criticisms of the translation tool is that, at least on the English Misplaced Pages, it produces absolutely diabolical Wikimarkup with loads of span tags and things like that. I've not used it but have seen its results. For you if you're using it to translate into Chinese I can understand, because you know what you're doing, that you could find it useful as machine assisted translation etc, the danger lies with people who do not know what they're doing. I'm sure your views over at WT:PNT would be greatly appreciated. I just always find it easier to edit in the boring old text editor and do it all manually I just prefer to see the source character-for-character, but that is just me, and it would be a poorer Misplaced Pages if editors all did it my way. Si Trew (talk) 06:43, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I do actually have to consult the Google Translator quite frequently as I am more fluent in English, but everyone knows translating full sentences with it is a bad idea, so if I come across a word or phrase that I am not familiar with, I would have to consult it, its no big deal, really, though, as I am quite familiar with Chinese grammar. What I hate (no, don't report me for this) is that all the language versions of Misplaced Pages have different policies, all language versions should follow the same policies and guidelines as the English Misplaced Pages. Over on zh.wp, if notability issues are not resolved within 30 days, the article will automatically be AfDed. (I got a message about that a day ago).- Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 06:55, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

The danger seems to lie mostly in that when you say "everyone knows", yes, everyone who has ever made any serious effort at translation knows about things like false friends and all that jazz, but some editors who were using this to import articles into EN:WP were entirely monolingual, usually not in English but in the source language and had no idea what gobledegook was coming out the back end, and the EN:WP consensus seems to be that WMF were rather encouraging the idea that this amazing new tool will magically translate everything perfectly into The King's English. Si Trew (talk) 07:42, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I just found another bug with the translation tool, it retains the categories such as Category:Commons category with local link same as on Wikidata once I have submitted it, see . But hey, I would still recommend it as I still have faith in it. People importing articles the way you describe it is certainly a bad idea IMO, I have found several examples during my time at NPP, and lots of them just copy articles from foreign wikis (WP:A2) (zhwiki does not have that criterion, which brings me back to the point that I wish all language editions followed the same policies as enwiki). - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 08:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, if you find it useful I ain't gonna stop you. I amjust way to old-fashioned for all this newfangled technology: I still have to get up and walk three feet to the telly when I want to change channel. Or would that be {{convert|3|ft}}? I am wondering how the tool deals with things like needing to convert units, because it would be quite hard to automate sensibly. Does it kinda prompt if it sees something that looks like it is a measure? I can't really try out the tool for myself well at the moment because my keyboard bust as usual (my bad habit of smoking roll-up cigarettes and dropping the remains in the keyboard means I tend to get through one in about two months) so I have to get another, in the meantime I am on a little laptop - a very little laptop - so I don't really have the screen real estate to be able to do that kind of editing meaningfully. I can tie the lappy up to the main screen but that won't help cos its poor little graphics driver won't go higher than about 1024x768 anyway. It's usually just used to serve for internet telly but has been pressed into action. I should get some money today so that I can go and get another keyboard. All of 600 forints about $2 at the second hand shop but I am a bit strapped for cash at the moment, unexpected expenses from a death in the family. Si Trew (talk) 09:07, 7 == Should I not nominate more RfD's then? ==

Considering that it will "take you a while" to undo the nominations, I probably would be better off leaving that alone for the time being, I mean, you could've rolled back had I not nominated the last two. Sorry about that. --- Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 09:16, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Go ahead Champ I'm jsut clearing up me mess. Sorry about that... "personal" was a call about a new job as it happens, but me mum died recently went to UK for funeral on Monday so I tend to be more attentive on answering the phone than I usually would be, sorry to have left this in the middle. I'm withdrawing most as changed me mind but a few are worthy of RfD I think. Sorry for the mess. Si Trew (talk) 09:19, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Some flowers for you

	Hello SimonTrew,
	I am sorry to hear about your loss at Rfd; what you wrote was really rather moving. My most sincere condolences. --Nevé–selbert 23:35, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

My condolences too. It is good to see people using personal experience to enrich content discussions on Misplaced Pages and get to know other editors as people. Deryck C. 14:16, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Tavix

...is admin now! Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Tavix. Also, non-sysops are generally allowed to perform "administrative" decisions, as long as one doesn't enact a decision that one doesn't have the technical permissions to perform (e.g. delete, move over redirect). Deryck C. 14:12, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

remembrance

	remembrance
	Came across the news, sorry for your loss. This is a field of Virginia bluebells and it looked pretty and I thought maybe your mum liked the color blue. Shearonink (talk) 14:23, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

• My condolences too, Simon. I can't fully understand what you're going through, of course, but my own "mum" hasn't been doing too well lately, and that's been hard enough for me. Please take care of yourself. --BDD (talk) 21:21, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
• Mine as well, Simon. Take care. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Condolences

My condolences

My sincere condolences on your loss, Si. This is a cluster of myosotis, more commonly known as forget-me-nots, at least in North America. When I was very young my grandfather passed, and my mother purchased for me a book in which these flowers feature prominently as a symbol of remembrance. I hope you and your loved ones are finding peace through this difficult time. Ivanvector (/Edits) 00:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't know if this was coincidence but I was fiddling around with some of the variations of redirects of Forget-me-Not and so on a few days ago. I did it under IP as I was just making minor edits and hadn't the will to battle RfD.

I have been going for a lot of job interviews and have had two job offers, I won't mention companies here but I start on Monday. So, four days to fix all the articles and redirects here at SiTrePedia as I won't have much time after. Thanks to you all for your messages, they mean a lot to me. Si Trew (talk) 21:10, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

RfD note

Sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences. (Also wished to drop a courtesy note about this, just in case you might be interested.) 71.163.180.2 (talk) 19:22, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Nigerians in Uruguay

Hi, SimonTrew. Am I as the proponent of the elimination allowed to vote? I see that the creator of the redirect has voted, so I guess I would also be allowed? Please let me know. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 14:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, you are allowed, @Rui Gabriel Correia: I was going to add to the RfD that, anyone can just overwrite the redirect with the article content, then it will just be closed at RfD as a procedural close (as no longer a redirect). WP:JUSTDOIT, in other words. Si Trew (talk) 14:57, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, SimonTrew. I am the proponent, so I don't want to appear as if I am passionately determined to kill the redirect, so I'll just allow the process to run its course. But I have taken not of your suggestion and keep it in mind for a future case ( I am still learning — been here for ten years, but have not done much in terms of 'admin' edits). Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 15:37, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

The Challenge Series

The Challenge Series is a current drive on English Misplaced Pages to encourage article improvements and creations globally through a series of 50,000/10,000/1000 Challenges for different regions, countries and topics. All Misplaced Pages editors in good standing are invited to participate.

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• Sent to users at Northamerica1000/Mailing list using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:16, 19 November 2016 (UTC).

Utterly good-faith contribution

You say in this RfD discussion "Frank Mitchell Cricket gets me Frank Herbert Mitchell, and various others who are not this person" ... but the redirect is to Frank Herbert Mitchell; he is this person. You say "Keep as harmless", but I explained in the nom exactly what harm it was doing. Would you care to rethink your contribution? --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:20, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I've looked at it again, but will let my thoughts stand. I've said so on the R page. Si Trew (talk) 10:09, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for butting in here. Not sure what the issue is here,but I think you are talking about search. I personally have almost completely stopped using Misplaced Pages search, and rely instead on google (which sometimes needs an addtional wikipedia search term in order to find pages on wikipedia). In my experience getting to pages such a particular wp:wikiproject can be done much faster outside of wikipedia. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:46, 20 November 2016 (UTC)please ping me

(talk page watcher) I do the same for project-space searches, since our search excludes project spaces by default. But since our search engine is for readers, I think that's more of a feature than a bug. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 17:05, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, SimonTrew. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Godsy

You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Godsy. - CHAMPION 22:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC)Template:Z48

Just passing by

Thank you for your work on the Eubot redirects, much appreciated. But I think its better to have a list or group of lists, by the way, you may want to also look at User:Anomie/Neelix_list/6. - CHAMPION 07:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

You're probably right, User:Champion, but as suggested at WP:CSD, someone has to kinda take the plunge and list some at RfD in batches first to see what comes of doing that, so I thought I'd make a start. Perhaps we should start a thread at WT:RFD cross-reffing to that. Si Trew (talk) 04:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Maybe, but it would be great to keep a log of all them somewhere, like the list of N***** redirects, but, the "Articles created" tool on the Toolserver is down, I don't know another way we can do that. - CHAMPION 05:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

@Champion: Ah, what I've been doing is using User Contributions and clicking on the "created by" option. That seems pretty much to get the same list, though no doubt it is not perfect. i.e. this. We should probably put in a bot request, and be careful to formulate it so that the links are to the redirects as well as to the targets, this time. (In fact, having the links like at the top of each RfD nom would be the best, I think there is a template variant of that created specifically for the Neelix redirects, but can't remember what it's called.) Si Trew (talk) 05:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I have been browsing that list, but it may be worth asking someone who was invloved here to create a list like that one, btw, I've just nominated a few. - CHAMPION 05:55, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

84.3.187.196 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

Hello SimonTrew. Sorry to bother you, but I just want to be reassured that this IP that has been signing off with your name (see here and the edit summaries referencing your username) is really indeed you. Thank-you.--Nevé–selbert 19:40, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your concern. Yes, it's me. I use the IP address sometimes when mobile editing so that I don't get the extras like twinkle, which make it rather cluttered and slow. I believe it's within WP policy to do that providing there's no attempt to sock. It should be a leased from a Budapest ISP if you do a who is: not sure whom without checking myself, landlord supplies it pro bono. Si Trew (talk) 19:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Ta Tanka I Yotank

Hello SimonTrew. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Ta Tanka I Yotank, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: I don't think this is snow-delete enough to qualify for X1 - the form at the target (Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotȟake in Standard Lakota) is different, but this form is in use, e.g. here. Consider RfD. Thank you. JohnCD (talk) 14:12, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Manassê et al.

I finished the merge, however haphazardly it got done. You can see my summary at Talk:Manasses (given name)#Merged articles. So discussions at RfD might even make sense now. I'm still updating the list of people, but that shouldn't interfere with any redirect discussions. — Gorthian (talk) 23:07, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Meliana Trump

This is just a friendly reminder that when you close an RFD discussion, you also need to remove the RFD tag from the redirect. I'm assuming it just slipped your mind, but I went ahead and did it for you this time. Cheers, -- Tavix 18:14, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, User:Tavix,yes, just forgot. Doing them from a tablet is a struggle. Si Trew (talk) 18:24, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

I know the feeling. I've closed a few discussions from my phone and it's always a pain. -- Tavix 18:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Eubotics

I have been looking at some of the Eubot redirects, as you have seen, and User:Athomeinkobe did respond to my ping about your help with Japanese names but you never replied. I now think I do get digraphs and diacritics mixed up. The reason, btw, that I pinged you earlier was that I thought you may be interested in the comments that I replied to User:Tavix on my talk page. Meanwhile, I have uncovered two of the longest standing hoaxes in the history of the 'Pedia. - CHAMPION 05:24, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

@Champion: Nicely done. I've forgotten what the Japanese ones were about. Si Trew (talk) 05:28, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

What are you doing praising me for forgetting the Japanese redirects, I am specifically looking at Chinese transliterations created by Eubot and here is another one for you

Eubotics refers to the process of creating redirects, often en masse from incorrect transliterations. The term originates from User:Eubot who has created thousands of redirects from incorrect transliterations in 2008. The process has often been compared to Neelixism..
- CHAMPION 05:36, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Praise for the hoaxes. The Eubot ones are in a sense worse than the Neelix ones as often there is a lot of follow-up for each one (when they are not simply knocking off the diacritical marks, but have been redirected from a redirect that is itself in another category: the Eubot ones didn't transfer the categories over, so often they become meaningless if they were e.g. {{R from misspelling}} in the first place.) Si Trew (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

It all began when I was just casually searching for redirects to nominated at RfD and consensus emerged that that particular one was better sent to AfD as it was previously an article. I felt like that it was a bad idea for when it was converted into a redirect for otherwise the hoax would have been picked up earlier. - CHAMPION 05:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose it's confirmation bias but a lot of AfDs seem to be closed as "convert to redirect" to mean "it should be deleted but we won't be able to get consensus for that, so let's at least delete the text and maybe RfD will then delete the redirect". Si Trew (talk) 06:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Incidentally the redirects to Dreamfall: The Longest Journey are a reasonable idea of what each nontrivial (i.e. "keep") Eubot redirect entails. Seventeen redirects to that target, variously created for various reasons, and one ends up with some being sensible and some being nonsense, and has to go through them to find out which. Is Dreamfall OS or Watilla sensible? Who knows. But if I don't go through the non-Eubot ones I will probably be accused of just concentrating on Eubot as some kind of personal attack. (That's what people essentially say when you mark something as "Neelix", i.e. leave little poor Neelix alone, even though to write out "Created by User:Neelix" would be a perfectly neutral comment.) Si Trew (talk) 06:15, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

(ec)Oh, I'm not worried about AfD's closed as redirect at all, provided that the relevant content is covered at the target, but this particular one was boldly redirected without discussion. No intention for any personal attack here, but did the editor even check for sources or check the target? This is certainly a hoax, and could've been picked up within days had the redirection not taken place. - CHAMPION 06:18, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, as you see from Misplaced Pages:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_December_10#Paakkoenen, the redirects get left behind long after the original damage has been repaired. I rather like the essay at WP:COSTLY (and it's the Usual Suspects in the history!) although I think it could do with tidying up a bit, the point about the maintenance burden is well made. Si Trew (talk) 07:27, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

qui vive

a l'heure: Cesar Guillaume de La Luzerne Si Trew (talk) 02:22, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Hello SimonTrew: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, North America 15:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

@Northamerica1000: and to you. Haven't seen you much at WP:RFD lately, your name was called only yesterday as a "expert on food topics", which I took to mean a euphemism for a fat glutton, but it would be good if you added your views there from time to time. Become more expert on food topics (particularly of the poultry and pastry variety) this Christmas Day. Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 15:40, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

• Actually, I look like Fabio. The holiday season is many things; a time for peace, reflection and holiday cheer, a time for families, and also a time for conspicuous, crazy consumption, such as eating and shopping. North America 16:05, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Hello SimonTrew: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, Class455 (Merry Christmas!) 17:41, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Eubotics continued

I'm just hoping we never get to see (e.g) Cärnafon, Bör War, or Pürperal fever. Eubot is almost as annoying as those undocumented location-type templates which allow editors to post links to DAB pages containing multiple counties, railway stations, or townships, and to walk away whistling merrily. Narky Blert (talk) 23:11, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Progress

Just a friendly note that please do not nominate any more Eubot redirects for the time being for I am currently devising a set of lists, I don't know how long this is going to take but I'll let you know. Thanks. - CHAMPION 08:45, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

--Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 19:07, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

All done

I have done with the lists of the Eubot redirects, the list of lists along with some notes are located at User:Champion/Eubot list. Thank you, hopefully you will find it easier with the lists. If there are any problems other than those that I've outlined, please do take the effort to address them on that page. I'm fine without a CSD criterion, but I'm not sure how long it is going to take. Hopefully it will be all done a year from now. Again, thank you. - CHAMPION 23:53, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

And thank you, User:Champion. I've not actually touched WP this week (except for a couple of very minor rephrasing edits at an article) as I have been rather busy at work, so you had a clear run! I!ve not looked at your lists yet, so I won't comment on them here. Si Trew (talk) 02:11, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I just felt like that an actual list was not coming anytime soon, so I thought that I'll start on one, note that my lists do not include those edited by someone else, but hey, let's just get these done first and not worry about the fixed double redirects, there are like 90,000 redirects altogether, a little less than the Neelix ones, but it will get 'em goin', don't ya think? - CHAMPION 02:28, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Very much. Those lists are very handy, especially having both the link and the target. It!s good to exclude any that have had edits. (As a second pass we could include just those that have bot edits, but I think back in 2008 it was common not to "tag" bot edits). Si Trew (talk) 02:32, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't know how to filter page creations that have subsequently been retargeted by double-redirect fixing bots, but I'm not overly worried, at least as this stage, PS, you did not edit the lists and the progression, I have done that. - CHAMPION 02:35, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I hadn't even looked at the instructions. I was rather hoping we can automate kinda a bot run to mark out those that are done. i.e. it's a simple difference of what was on the list before to what would be on it now. Seems like makework to do it manually. The problem is partly the ones that can be safely kept, I guess I should remove them from the lsit but then regenerating any such list will just put them back again. It is better to just make a dummy edit (add a space) at the R, to show it's been looked at, but that is also work... Si Trew (talk) 03:59, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Relax

At RfD you seem to be getting very stressed about things and in danger of saying something you regret later. It's not worth it. Take a deep breath, maybe take a little bit of time away from Misplaced Pages and so something that clams you down (take a walk, paint a picture, play some sport, shoot up some bad guys in a computer game, whatever) and come back when you're feeling refreshed. There is no deadline, the redirects will all still be there when you get back. You've been doing a phenomenal amount of work at RfD, but it's far better if you pace yourself and don't get burnt out. Thryduulf (talk) 22:03, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

There are 65 nominatioons on today's Rfd, 73 on yesterday's, most of the Eubot redirects. That's probably too many already for people to give proper scrutiny to, particularly at this time of year when many folk will have limited Misplaced Pages time (I doubt I'll be on anywhere near as much as normal for about a week starting on Wednesday for example). Thryduulf (talk) 22:10, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yes old bean, and you're right. I did realise that meself. As long as you're happy that I keep listing these, that's fine. They take time to get through and it is not particularly pleasant when you get kinda "you're a stupid fuckwit" banded back at you, when I am not a stupid fuckwit. When I cock up, I admit to it, when I say I didn't do my research, I admit to it, when I change my mind, I admit to it, Champ and I have 130,000 of these to get through, and I did a thousand yesterday. With a clear run I can get half of them done by New Year's Day, but then I have to go back to work. I do a lot on the night shift where i have nothing else to do but have to be on call, so please don't tell others that. Champ and I work quite well together that way cos he is in Australia somewhere so we don't know each other at all except through RfD but he kinda hands over the baton to me and me back to him, with the time difference. List 18 is pretty much done now. They didn't beat us with Neelix and they won't beat us with Eubot, we'll be OK. Si Trew (talk) 22:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

That was written before the edit conflict. Now ,as to the 78 yesterday and 65 today. A word in your shell-like, Thryduulf, but acutally (and I keep the Eubotometer ticking away, if all else fails I have a piece of paper in front of me with the stats written on) about and just roughly speaking 90% or so of the Eubot redirects are OK and don't need touching in any way. They are simple {{R from title without diacritics}} which are, in fact, an R from title without diacritics. It's the roughly 10% that aren't and 10% of about 130,000 is er, well, about three and sixpence or something. It's a lot, anyway. I will bombard RfD because I think that is easier for all of us if we get it done and dusted fairly quickly, but I can understand you saying go easy. Don't worry about me, and thank you for checking external sources when I slip up (I usually do, but I do forget sometimes, and I am not going to mention every source etc but I usually do what I consider a reasonable [[WP:BEFORE} as you slapped me for that, er, before) and it will be OK as long as RfD allows the flood. With the Neelix redirects again Champ and I took the most of em, and they said it couldn'!t be done, but was not just done, but done properly. I ain't taking any shortcuts.

@Thryduulf: I still think your proopsal for grouping into sets is a load of bollox, but I hope you had a happy Christmas, have a great 2017, and please continue to be a thorn in my side at Misplaced Pages. I only see you really at RfD, but occasionally I see you work elswehere too. I don't know what to say but thank you for making the world better, one bit at a time. I was deliberately swearing and cussing to see what would come of it. (I don't do it very much in real life, either.) The double entendre on "Cunety" seems to have been ducked, and there was another one really bad pun about the unbecoming of the Magi, which apparently nobody got. You gotta have puns, it's Christmas! Or is that just very British to have bad puns in Christmas crackers? Si Trew (talk) 22:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Flaming

Thanks for your pointer to the discussion about the "flambéed" redirect. I've contributed. --Macrakis (talk) 20:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

My pleasure, @Macrakis:. To put you in the picture, there are about 130,000 redirects created by a bot, User:Eubot about eight years ago, mostly harmless but some that are rather weird. They were all created without discussion or approval as {{R from title without diacritics}}. Most, about 90%, are just fine, but about 10% are a bit iffy, and those are the ones I bring to RfD. So no problem at all that you say "keep", but pretty much anthing I bring to RfD off of those is going to be a delete, for if not I just quietly keep them and so on. There's lists at e.g. User:Champion/Eubot_list_16 if you're interested (they number 1 through 18, at five thousand Rs a throw, but I have done most of 18). Si Trew (talk) 20:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

WP:Articles for deletion/List of Norwegian television series

Just letting you know. Peridon (talk) 19:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

User talk: Eubot and Twinkle

I reverted the last 500 edits on that page, removing between 300k and 400k bytes, and reducing the number of sections from the 600s to the 100s. Almost all of those edits were automated Twinkle edits for the redirect deletion. Is that okay? HotdogPi 16:54, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year, SimonTrew!

SimonTrew,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
Class455 (talk | stand clear of the doors!) 18:33, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year SimonTrew!

--Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 12:27, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

AfD and withdrawal by you.

SimonTrew, you nominated Västra Frölunda IF (disambiguation) for deletion and then attempted to withdraw the nomination by blanking the AfD page. Whatever your reason is, you cannot remove AfD tags from the pages and blank AfD discussion template. Kindly read WP:WDAFD and follow the steps there should you wish to withdraw the nomination. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 05:45, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

@SimonTrew and AKS.9955: I have deleted the AfD page which was clearly created in error. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 13:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

• Thanks Ivanvector. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 13:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Welcome back

See you've been on and off wikibreak again, to be honest, even I am not that active now, and I have not dealt with the Eubot redirects for quite a while now, probably since you were on wikibreak, for that matter. - CHAMPION 00:19, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I'll get back to them, I don!t even remember where they are. I saw you added a couple the other day. The missus is back on her six-month tour of Europe (for work: the view from her Czech hotel window is... er... the same as from any other business hotel window i.e. an oblique view of a lot of other hotel windows) so I have a bit more time in the evenings for luxuries such as Misplaced Pages. Si Trew (talk) 19:33, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Propagation error

Following on from the comments at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 April 5#Bat-Olzii, Ovoerkhangai regarding Propagation error (or Error propagation, one should redirect to the other I think; also Propogation error and Error propogation would be a useful misspelling redirects) the title should not be red. In addition to the use in computing we were talking about (I can't find a relevant article) we have several other articles/sections that may be relevant so a dab page somewhere is probably justified. I don't pretend to understand all of these articles though:

• Propagation of uncertainty "or Propagation of error" in statistics
• backward propagation of errors or backpropagation, a method for training artificial neural networks
• Approximation error "In the mathematical field of numerical analysis, the numerical stability of an algorithm in numerical analysis indicates how the error is propagated by the algorithm."
• Error analysis (mathematics) "Error analysis deals with the propagation of the numerical errors in x {\displaystyle \scriptstyle x} \scriptstyle x and y {\displaystyle \scriptstyle y} \scriptstyle y (around mean values x ¯ {\displaystyle \scriptstyle {\bar {x}}} \scriptstyle\bar{x} and y ¯ {\displaystyle \scriptstyle {\bar {y}}} \scriptstyle\bar{y}) to error in z {\displaystyle \scriptstyle z} \scriptstyle z (around a mean z ¯ {\displaystyle \scriptstyle {\bar {z}}} \scriptstyle\bar{z})."
• Numerical analysis#Generation and propagation of errors

Most of those are way over my head currently (I'm unfit and I've walked the best part of 10 miles (16 km) today so I'm exhausted), and I suspect over my head when I'm fully functioning so I don't want to be responsible for trying to fit them to a disambg. Thryduulf (talk) 20:16, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

ps: please reply here to keep the conversation together. Thryduulf (talk) 20:17, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

@Thryduulf: That sounds like a good idea, to make a DAB, but we already have a DAB and Error (disambiguation)#Science might be alright, if expanded.

I'm usually quite a good speller, but when I get something like this it makes me second-guess and I think "well, is it 'propogation' and I have been spelling it wrong all these years?' and then think of examples such as propaganda, proportion, and so on, to see which fits best. Of course, I could just look in a dictionary, but I am not the only pattern-matching human in the world so I imagine if I make a mistake (or rather, don't but then hypercorrect it) then other readers could do the same thing. Deliberately on these things I don't tend to look at unreliable sources such as Misplaced Pages for e.g. propagator, which would be the sensible thing to do but if not careful one ends up going down the rabbit hole (should we have propagater and propogater, for example?)

It's a pity that "error" was chosen in stats and engineering to mean e.g. engineering tolerance or "uncertainty" as stated, and not the common-sense use of meaning "fault". Perhaps it was an ill-chosen word, but we're stuck with it.

Si Trew (talk) 05:29, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, Propagation of error -> Propagation of uncertainty, which you implied but I thought they may have been two separate articles. I suppose I was talking about garbage in, garbage out, in a way, would that be a reasonable thing to add to the DAB? The second (and last) sentence of the lede says "The principle also applies more generally to all analysis and logic, in that arguments are unsound if their premises are flawed" which is a reasonable statement to make in a lede (it has relevant links which I've omitted here) and presumably one can end up at logical fallacy -> formal fallacy or whatnot, but that might be straying too far. I suppose the distinction of a logical fallacy against a GIGO one is that for GIGO, the construction is perfectly sound but the inputs are weird; for a logical fallacy, the construction is unsound regardless of the inputs. Si Trew (talk) 06:13, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

By the way I hope you enjoyed your walk. I used to walk a lot too, when I lived somewhere more rural, but now it's just too easy to jump on a tram or bus. It's odd because one's kinda universe shrinks when one lives in somewhere urban, two miles to walk is nothing if you live in the countryside, that's half an hour, nothing, but if you live in town then two hundred yards to the bus stop seems a long way. I should get out to the little place I own in the countryside more often, really, it will be beautiful there this time of year, the cherries will be all in bloom. I wouldn't say I was lazy but I concreted over my window-boxes. Si Trew (talk) 06:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

There's also Error propagation and propagated error to the Propagation of uncertainty target, and propogation of error created back in 2006 which gives us precedent for the misspelling, and was not marked as {{R from misspelling}} but I'll do that now. Si Trew (talk) 06:40, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I just said it at RfD and somehing I tend to call these things: chinese whispers. I am not sure how WP:WORLDWIDE that is, apparently in the US it is called "telephone", but I think we should put it on the DAB somehow, because that game is exactly all about propagation errors. The lede says "It is often invoked as a metaphor for cumulative error", with a reference Cumulative error is probably nearest to what I was describing, but that just R's to Propagation of uncertainty again, which doesn't really cover it very well as it leaps into algebra where there are no errors in the sense I mean, i.e. all the numbers have infinite precision and are just called X or Y with that assumption. Perhaps we ask over at WP:Wikiproject Mathematics or something, but this is more of an engineering thing, the mathematical articles tend to assume an abstract, Platonic world where everything is perfect rather than the engineering world where everything is not-very-perfect, with a known amount of imperfection. Si Trew (talk) 09:35, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. - CHAMPION 00:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Involved because you raised it. Still can't find it.

I have been in court four times for various things, lost one, won one, lost three. At every occasion the judge gave me the opinion straight and clear. I cannot for the life of me understand why ANI, or you as the proposer, or whatever the ANI result was, cannot do the same. There is not currently as it says a dicussion at ..., there is not. I cannot find it. I remember contributing to it, have no idea what the verdict was. Don't care really, I do this voluntarily. And I do it bloody well User:Champion. Charity is not something one is supposed to boast about.

Si Trew (talk) 00:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) In case you're interested, the discussion referred to above now lives at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive951#User:SimonTrew posting BLP violations at RfD. It is possible for the {{ani-notice}} template to link to the thread it refers to (using the thread= parameter) but it seems most users are either disinclined to offer courtesy to editors with whom they disagree, or more likely are ignorant of the switch's existence. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 13:54, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Probably, User:Ivanvector. It came a bit out of the blue to me from an editor who listed all of these eubot ones. Have pot, have kettle. Good work there to find them, and I know it mucks up RfD, but I thooight we were trying to make the encyclopaedia better. Si Trew (talk) 15:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

As I said on ANI, it is the clean hands doctrine. A dirty dog will get no food from the courts, as Albert Haddock put it (in Misleading Cases). Si Trew (talk) 16:06, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

The Negotiable Cow is probably the most famous=, but we don't seem to have that. "Was the cow crossed?" No, your honour, it was an open cow. Si Trew (talk) 16:09, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Actually we do have The Negotiable Cow but not Negotiable Cow... hmmm.. hesitate to create it. Si Trew (talk) 16:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

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Re Cavaliers-Warriors rivalry

That's basketball not military history... HydroniumHydroxide 04:06, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Please slow down and do basic WP:BEFORE

You are overloading WP:RFD with far too many discussions where you have not done even the most cursory checks regarding your nominations. You've nominated around 50 redirects on today's page alone, some 1-2 minutes apart. It's taking me on average 5 minutes per nomination, sometimes more, to research these redirects and it seems that few other people have the time to engage. This is not reasonable or sustainable. If you do not voluntarily slow down, to say no more than 20 nominations per calendar day, each with evidence of having conducted WP:BEFORE prior to nomination I will have to seek a formal topic ban (and the comments at your recent foray at ANI suggest I am not the only one with issues).

I know you are attempting to work through the backlog of Eubot redirects, but you are causing far more problems with your actions than you are solving - there is no deadline. If it takes three years to work through the list that's perfectly fine. It's also irrelevant how many redirects you don't nominate - what matters is the time of other contributors you are wasting. Thryduulf (talk) 10:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

• What time zone you are in is irrelevant. How many redirect you process and don't nominate is, as noted above, irrelevant. Who else would do it is irrelevant, it's not clear that it needs to be done. What matter is that you are flooding RfD. The time to slow down is now, not in an hour. Thryduulf (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
• WP:BEFORE is relevant to all XfD processes, and yes it is your business to check for external uses, etc. You've been asked multiple times by multiple people to do so. It's ANI time I'm afraid. Thryduulf (talk) 10:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Take it then. Take it to ANI. I don't care. Off you go, you bully. I did some work here this morning. You arrive and bully me. Other editors did some work here this morning. Off you go, bully me. You don't own RfD. Si Trew (talk) 10:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Before you do that, have you noticed that with a little words in people's shell-likes, MORE editors have been actively editing on these than before you put your size tens in, you bully? It was quite a friendly place. I have met bullies like you in real life. Go on then, take it to ANI. Si Trew (talk) 10:38, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

The time zone I am on is relevant beause I know during the night when the Americans come on I won't be able to flood like I am at the moment. I do actually have a brain in my head. Nobody was around particularly until User:Champion came in, I had the place to myself. User:Ivanvector won't reply until about ten pm my time at the earliest, User:Siuenti is probably already in bed. So I went for it like a formula one driver, or whatever, I got through 5000 on Champion List 11 and I listed about 50 and I am half way through. 50 out of 5000 listed for delete is not fuck all compared to what people did on the WP:X1 concession. That is slow. I bashed the thermometer up from 0 to 5000, cut into sections and I am at the start of section "about 6000". Si Trew (talk) 10:43, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

What matters of "the time of other contributors you are wasting" means "You are wasting my (Thryduulf's)" time. Well go do something else then. There are other admins. User:Tavix just got awarded. He can do it. Si Trew (talk) 10:47, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

DO NOT BULLY ME. IT IS NOT BECOMING OF YOU AS AN ADMIN. Si Trew (talk) 10:48, 26 April 2017 (UTC)