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| "The proportion of the Italian-speaking population thus grew significantly from 3% before World War I (census of 1910) to over 34% in 1961." Where is a citation for this "fact"? This entire page is almost written without any basis. | "The proportion of the Italian-speaking population thus grew significantly from 3% before World War I (census of 1910) to over 34% in 1961." Where is a citation for this "fact"? This entire page is almost written without any basis. | ||
| : Here's an , in Italian. ] 15:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC) | : Here's an , in Italian. ] 15:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::Excellent reference. The only issue I have with this is that "Italian speakers", "German speakers" does not really show ethnic background. Everyone in the US is an "English speaker" for the most part, but they are not English. You can go to these towns and see the tombstones and see both German and Italian names going back centuries, not to just 1910. Also, the origins of many of these people go back to Roman times. Rules have come and gone, as have languages. The people for the most part are of that region, be them in Italian Trento or Italian-German Bolzano/Bozen. Hence you see blonde blue-eyes, dark hair, blue eyes, dark hair, brown eyes, etc. and all different face features. So anyway, where it says gruppi-etnici, it is not quite |
::Excellent reference. The only issue I have with this is that "Italian speakers", "German speakers" does not really show ethnic background. Everyone in the US is an "English speaker" for the most part, but they are not English. You can go to these towns and see the tombstones and see both German and Italian names going back centuries, not to just 1910. Also, the origins of many of these people go back to Roman times. Rules have come and gone, as have languages. The people for the most part are of that region, be them in Italian Trento or Italian-German Bolzano/Bozen. Hence you see blonde blue-eyes, dark hair, blue eyes, dark hair, brown eyes, etc. and all different face features. So anyway, where it says gruppi-etnici, it is not quite accurate. These is a "language census" from 1910, when the land was under the rule of German-speaking Austria. It has to be taken with a grain of salt. There were definitely people chased out of the region for centuries, and people moved in. But it was small, on the order of thousands. The majority of the families in the region have literally been there for centuries. take care. ] 04:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| == This page should be moved == | == This page should be moved == | ||
Revision as of 05:34, 3 October 2006
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Communes' names
Sorry for giving start to what could be a new dispute. What I find aberrant is the present system used for the names of the towns; while for the province a choice was made, prefering the German solution (all in all the best solution, since Germans are majoritarian), for the towns the weird "decision" was taken of not deciding, with Bolzano-Bozen, Brunick-Brunico, ecc. And while both Bolzano and Bozen are used, Bolzano-Bozen is simply absurd. I propose to use the language criterion to select only one name for all comuni; Bolzano-Bozen would be Bolzano, Brunick-Brunico would be Brunick.--Aldux 12:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Terminology
Whats the adjective given to describe people from South Tyrol and whats the noun given to someone from South Tyrol?
Hannes Rohregger
H'm, I tried to find something about this guy here, and failed. Anyone has a link? --Tridentinus 14:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
We are in 2007 already??
"The South Tyrolean People's Party (SVP) rejected the proposal, saying this would just create ethnic tensions again. Cossiga made similar remarks again in 2007, bringing in again another bill calling for a solution by letting South Tyrol rejoin Austria."
What is this? This page is so pro-German, it is out of control. That, and now we are describing the future.
Citations
"The proportion of the Italian-speaking population thus grew significantly from 3% before World War I (census of 1910) to over 34% in 1961." Where is a citation for this "fact"? This entire page is almost written without any basis.
- Here's an official source, in Italian. Tridentinus 15:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Excellent reference. The only issue I have with this is that "Italian speakers", "German speakers" does not really show ethnic background. Everyone in the US is an "English speaker" for the most part, but they are not English. You can go to these towns and see the tombstones and see both German and Italian names going back centuries, not to just 1910. Also, the origins of many of these people go back to Roman times. Rules have come and gone, as have languages. The people for the most part are of that region, be them in Italian Trento or Italian-German Bolzano/Bozen. Hence you see blonde blue-eyes, dark hair, blue eyes, dark hair, brown eyes, etc. and all different face features. So anyway, where it says gruppi-etnici, it is not quite accurate. These is a "language census" from 1910, when the land was under the rule of German-speaking Austria. It has to be taken with a grain of salt. There were definitely people chased out of the region for centuries, and people moved in. But it was small, on the order of thousands. The majority of the families in the region have literally been there for centuries. take care. Taalo 04:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This page should be moved
This page should be moved from South Tyrol to the Province of Bolzano-Bozen. There is no province in Italy with the name South Tyrol. There is a REGION, whose name in German is Sudtirol. Taalo 03:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Some suggestions
I originally added the following to User talk:Taalo.
What should be considered is the separation of articles. Misplaced Pages should have articles on the (official) Italian Region of "Trentino-Alto Adige", its (official) subdivisions "Province of Trento" and "Province of Bolzano", and the (unofficial) geographic and historical region "South Tyrol". "South Tyrol" is certainly a term used frequently in English- just take a glance at Google Books. That is why I support the separation of the articles' information into "administrative" and "historical" articles. This historical territory of Tyrol would therefore be separated into the historical regions of North Tyrol, East Tyrol, and South Tyrol, and into the administrative regions/provinces Tyrol (state) and Trentino-Alto Adige, the latter divided into Trento and Bolzano. Similar case are Podlachia (historical) and Podlachian Voivodeship (administrative) or the various subdivisions of the historical regions Styria, Transylvania, Silesia, and Pomerania. Olessi 17:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Requested move
South Tyrol → Province of Bolzano/Bozen – This page describes the Province of Bolzano/Bozen, the one just north of the Province of Trento. Every online reference that lists the provinces of Italy (in English) lists Rome, Milan, Tuscany, Trento, Bolzano. I think it is fair in this mixed Italian-German region to use both names. Once again a compromise, and a preservation of both names.. which are important to me, and I would imagine to anyone else who appreciates history. Alto Adige/Sudtirol is the region, not the province. We can have a seperate section on South Tyrol if someone wants, or a link to South Tyrol (historical) Taalo 03:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Survey
- Support: Either this or just Province of Bolzano. Per discussion below, esp. online references and Google checks. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Discussion
Please give the following:
- Examples of "every online reference that lists the provinces" which show "Province of Bolzano/Bozen".
- Naming convention or other article names that support the Province of Italian version/German version scheme that you're proposing.
Thanks. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well in fact, the majority of online references will show the Province of Bolzano, without the German name. Being from this region, I know that they actually use both. I also thought this could be a good gesture so we can finally get some consensus where everyone is happy! -- while also being at least 99% accurate. :) Taalo 04:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
English references which show this region as Trentino-Alto Adige and Province of Bolzano. Regardless, I believe we should have the Italian/German name, because this is fair to both groups of the region. Also, written directly into the constitution of Italy, they call the region Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol. So at least the Gov't of Italy was able to make a compromise, eh?! Should, hopefully be a compromise so people can chill out, and we can actually get to work on making good pages.. not creating anger. I'm going to cross post websites that refer to the naming convention for the Province of Bolzano/Bozen & the region of Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol. Note once again, that if there is any reference that only has Italian, I full support listing both, which is done in the Italian constitution and locally in the region on road signs, buildings, etc. Let's share finally... Taalo 04:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
CIA World Factbook: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/it.html#Govt
Constitution of Italy (refer to Article 116): http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/it00000_.html
Countries and Cities website: http://www.countriesandcities.com/countries/it/provinces.htm
Province of Bolzano website: http://www.provinz.bz.it/lpa/autonomy/autonomy_statute_eng.pdf
World Gazetteer: http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gmap&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-108&srt=npan&col=aohdq http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-108&srt=npan&col=aohdq&pt=c&va=x&geo=-1956 http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gpro&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-1956&srt=npan&col=aohdq&pt=c&va=x&geo=491419135 http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Italy_Autonomous_regions.htm
- Some Google checks:
- 1.3M hits vs. 87,800 hits (or 172,000 hits)
- From here, the first 15 or so hits all show Bolzano.
- Sounds pretty obvious to me. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)