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Biography B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Aleš Hemský was a good article, but it was removed from the list as it no longer met the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. Review: No date specified. To provide a date use: {{DelistedGA|insert date in any format here}}.

Ice Hockey Unassessed

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ice Hockey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of ice hockey on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ice HockeyWikipedia:WikiProject Ice HockeyTemplate:WikiProject Ice HockeyIce Hockey ??? This article has not yet received a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Quality

I don't know how this article received a rating of GA-class. Although there is a whole lot of information, I would say this article is not very good at all, and should probably be marked with the cleanup, NPOV, and unreferenced tags. There are entire paragraphs that need to be removed. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to override another user's assessment, especially when the assessment is just two days old, and also when it was done by such a prestigious user (User:Plange), so I will leave the rating alone and start editing the article to improve it. I encourage all editors to help me with this article. --Muéro 03:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

There are numerous statements in this article that need sources, so I added the unsourced tag. Once again, although I am planning on working on it myself, any help would be appreciated. --Muéro 17:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Jaskaramdeep made a good point on his talk page about the video hosted at TSN, but it is moot, since the whole section about one incident in a hockey game is unimportant; my real problem is with videos ripped from copyrighted television broadcasts, uploaded to YouTube, and then posted on Misplaced Pages. I would bet that 99% of videos on YouTube are not appropriate for Misplaced Pages. He has demanded that I list a reason for every word I edit on this page, so here goes:

• Edmonton declared their intent in the summer of 2006 by signing the potential franchise player to a six-year contract . Barring unforeseen circumstances, it will see him earn US $24.6 million, sacrifice three years of UFA status, and enter the 2011-12 NHL season as an Oiler. What does "declared their intent" mean? Declared their intent to what? Who says he is a potential franchise player? A source is needed. The sources here have nothing to do with the text, and should be removed. As for the part about sacrificing UFA status, it's really not needed. He signed a deal. It was his choice. It was a business deal, not a gesture to the organization or anything else. Also, anyone can figure out that barring unforseen circumstances, a 6-year deal will last through the 2011-12 season.

Before I get into this, I am going to note that I am a third-year university student. One of my essays was even published by the U (http://www.humanities.ualberta.ca/mmorris/101D2/Strange%20Meeting%20essa%20Jas.htm), so I don't think I'll be conceding any points based on writing skill. "Declared their intent" means just that - they stated to the world their intent of keeping Hemsky around as their cornerstone by locking him up for six years. His teammates, Spector from spectorshockey, and even recently acquired Petr Sykora have stated that with a little work, there's no reason why Hemsky can't be one of the best players in the league. That's where franchise player comes in. Sacrificing UFA status IS really all that important. It is a huge gesture in the new NHL. A similar player - Martin Havlat - absolutely killed the Senators by refusing to sign more than a 1-year deal, so he wouldn't lose his UFA year. For a team who just lost their franchise player in Chris Pronger, and had all the rental players from the cup run leave at the first chance they got (sans Roloson), this is a huge gesture to the team, and to the city. Believe me, when Hemsky does hit UFA status, he's going to get the cap max. You can delete the last part about "barring unforeseen circumstances", in retrospect that's not essential.

• The talented playmaker was spotted by North American scouts by year's end, and subsequently became the first selection of the Hull Olympiques in the 2000 CHL Import Draft. "The talented playmaker" is bias/POV and should be removed.

Lol, are you kidding me? Have you even seen the guy play? If Hemsky isn't a talented playmaker, then who is? Sometimes, it is ok to use common sense. He's been called a talented playmaker since the day he was drafted. If that does not describe Hemsky, then nothing does.

• Canadian Major Junior Hockey is the primary pool from which the NHL drafts, and young players who perform well in that hockey fishbowl are rarely overlooked. This is extreme speculation and should be removed . . . unless a source is provided.

Use NHL_Entry_Draft#Player_Numbers_By_League_Summary as a souce. No other league gets more players drafted each year than the CHL.

• The Edmonton Oilers had suffered from poor draft choices through the mid-90s, primarily due to chief scout Barry Fraser's refusal to properly utilize his scouting staff . Fans successfully pressured the team to release Fraser when it was discovered in 2000 that he spent most of his time scouting players on videotape in Mexico . Kevin Prendergast was subseqently promoted to fill the vacant role of head scout. This is biased, speculatory, and has almost no relation to Ales Hemsky's life.

I'm going to have to give this comment a giant question mark. I gave a source verifying that Fraser didn't listen to his staff from one of the web's main prospect magazines. I gave a source from a news station thta Fraser spent most of his time in Mexico scouting players on tape, and that fans pressured the team to get rid of him. What more do you want for this to not be "biased and speculatory"? This is very related to the Hemsky article. The Hemsky pick was the first success after a series of first round busts under Fraser (unless Mikhnov actually comes over - something else Fraser failed to consider when drafting).

• Prendergast also revealed that the draft in 2001 changed to more of a group effort under his guide. "I think every scout has his own favorite players. Our staff works as a team and whomever the player is that we take, we’re taking him as a team. There might be three or four scouts who don’t like that player but the other nine guys on staff do like him." This is biased, speculatory, and has absolutely no relation to Ales Hemsky's life.

Excuse me? How is a referenced quote from a person a biased, speculatory statement? I am at a total loss at this point. So far, only one of your points have been valid. Again, it is very relevant to the Hemsky article, because he was the first player picked under this new scheme, and it proved to be a success.

• as it seems likely that young Hemsky will successfully fill Guerin's role as the Oilers' first-line right winger for many more years than Guerin conceivably could have. Wow . . . this is extremely biased and speculatory.

Guerin is a 36 year old with dropping production and a history of leg injuries while in Dallas. He was not re-signed by Dallas. Hemsky is 22 with no sports-related injuries. He led his team in scoring in his third year in the league. Does 1+1 no longer equal 2? Can we use some common sense please? The statement is not biased as even Flames fans would rather the Oilers have Guerin back instead of Hemsky.

• The aim was to give Hemsky every chance to prove himself in the NHL before being relegated to the AHL; hopefully resulting in the maturation of his potential into a star-calibre player. The source provided is barely related to the text here. Also, incorrect use of the word "hopefully."

Although "hopefully" is not used incorrectly (please explain), I do agree that the article can do without this paragraph.

• However, there were still many games where he would do very little, then would come from the abyss to make the highlight-reel play. Once again, this has very biased wording, and is not verifiable.

I am beginning to wonder how much Oilers hockey you really have watched. This is Hemsky. That is what he did, like it or lump it. He screwed around for the whole game, then would pick up the puck, undress three guys and take it end to end, then pass it off at the last second and kill the play. This is what everyone refers to when they say that he is "frustrating to watch". For his rookie and sophomore season, that's all anyone saw from Hemsky, whether it sounds "biased" (not sure how the truth is biased though) or not. It is verifiable. Google Hemsky and frustrating, and you'll see millions of accounts of him doing what I described above on message boards, and news stations.

• Accompanied by fellow NHL'ers Milan Hejduk (COL), Michal Rozsival (NYR), Jan Bulis (MTL), Petr Prucha (NYR), and Petr Sykora (WAS), Hemsky would return to the Czech Republic This article is about Hemsky. We do not need to list all of his teammates. This makes the article long, and for no good reason.

Delete it

• He seemed to have increased his top speed (or possibly was more willing to use it now), while carrying the puck. This is speculatory and would definitely need a source to be included.

Go nuts and delete it then. You haven't watched the two versions of Hemsky, and there's no way to prove it (except by uploading and editing game tape to youtube, which you have some problem with anyways).

• However, his improvement during the lockout had many believeing that he made the difficult steps in becoming an elite player while in the Czech Republic, and that it was only a matter of time before he worked the kinks out of his game.Again, this is speculatory (as well as biased) and would definitely need a source to be included.

http://www.addictfantasysports.com/perspectives/article/1053. Most improved player on the team - Hemsky

• Opposing teams have also picked up on Hemsky's gamebreaking ability. Several times during the course of the season, players have looked to hit with the intent of hurting him. Mactavish has stated that to his credit, Hemsky is much stronger than he appears . The Oilers as a team had their eyes opened by a blatant attempt to injure Hemsky in Buffalo on January 16, 2006. After Hemsky opened the scoring with a fake on a 2-on-1, Jay McKee would make a play which angered many Oiler players and fans. Hemsky was gaining speed through the neutral zone, looking to break across the Sabres' blue line for another odd-man rush when McKee, realizing he would not be able to catch Hemsky should he pass, stuck his knee out and made contact with Hemsky's. This is a very dangerous play in hockey, and has been the cause of many serious injuries. Oilers captain Jason Smith immediately saw McKee's intent, and charged up the ice after him, prompting the outburst of a full-line brawl. (see TSN's video of the incident) This is extremely biased, speculatory, and almost entirely sourceless. It is also unimportant. It may have gotten the fans riled up for a few days on discussion boards, but it does not make it encyclopedic.

Again, how is recalling past events biased and speculatory? Perhaps you need a dictionary. Go to google and type define:speculatory then define:biased. Did Hemsky open the scoring with a fake on a two on one? Yes. Did he get kneed by Mckee in a way many players have been injured before? Yes. Did Jason Smith see this and react accordingly? Yes. Did everyone get angry? Yes. What is unencyclopedic about it? That you don't remember it? Check out the video in that case. Mckee lines Hemsky up and nearly ends his career. If I take a run at you, and make a violent attack so viscious that your friends come after me, wouldn't that be an important part of your life?

• After the Oilers lost game 4 of the Finals to the Hurricanes, Mactavish was again asked if he becomes frustrated when Hemsky opts to pass instead of taking the obvious shot. He was visibly upset when he responded; "Well, you know what I get frustrated with? I get frustrated with the question. And, I mean, you haven't been here all year, and I get frustrated with the question. The guy has led our team in scoring, he's a playmaker, he wins lots of games for us, yet every Tom, Dick and Harry is telling him how to play the game. The guy is a good player, he's a good passer ... he makes plays." As is his wont, Hemsky responded in game 5, ending Edmonton's 4-game powerplay drought by scoring on an uncharacteristic one-timed slapshot from the right faceoff circle. None of this is encyclopedic in any way. This may be the most unimportant quotation on all of Misplaced Pages. If you want, add a sentence that says "Hemsky sometimes opts to pass instead of taking the obvious shot." --but only if a good source is provided.

Lol, talk about ego. "most unimportant quotation on all of wikipedia". And you're criticizing my english? "least important". I think I'll leave it the way it is. Go to edmontonoilers.com and listen to the audio of Mactavish. Everything is fine and dandy in the post-game interview, he seems a little down. Then this no-name guy rips Hemsky, and Mactavish just loses it. That kind of support from a coach is very important to a young player. Look at what Mike Keenan did to the majority of his young players. He ripped them up and down every practise, and killed their self-confidence. Espescially for a player like Hemsky who is just starting to get his confidence about him, to have that kind of support from your coach is worth its weight in gold.

• As for my deletion of links to YouTube, it is because the television broadcasts were copyrighted.

So too were the broadcasts on Zinedine Zidane's page. I'm going to go with the assumption that the gang of guys slaving over, and resolving endless disputes on that page since the world cup incident are a little more in the loop than you alone. Jaskaramdeep 21:07, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

• I have reverted the above passages for the reasons listed. Once again, I welcome discussion about the article. --Muéro 19:34, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Comments requested

Based on events so far, I have doubts that User:Jaskaramdeep and I are going to come to a consensus in the near future. So, I put this page on Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ice Hockey#Articles to improve, in hopes that many Wikipedians will come, read about the disputed content, and comment, so a consensus can be reached. Muéro 22:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Why do you refuse to work with me? I've conceded some points, but you're giving the impression that it's your way or the highway. I get a very arrogant vibe from you, and I don't appreciate it Jaskaramdeep 01:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

After I read your responses, I realized there were two options: 1. Continue to argue on the talk page while having an edit war on the main page or 2. Request many Wikipedians to come and comment, so it is not just two editor's opinions, but many. I think that the second option would result in less stress on everybody. Note that I never said that I was right, you were wrong, or even suggested either. I merely suggested that more comments from more users would be beneficial. Even if a consensus with which I do not agree is reached, I do not mind. I would rather "lose" democratically than to keep arguing forever. In my opinion, the two of us should stop editing this article for a while, and instead let others work on it. I would rather stop a dispute before it gets too heated than wait for things to get out of control. Please, just wait a few days before working on this article again, so others can have a chance to comment. --Muéro 01:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

...he said after reverting to his preferred version. Incredible Jaskaramdeep 02:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Look, there is a lot more editing I would be doing if I weren't trying to be civil by waiting for others to (I hope) help us improve this article. To me, the way it is now is already a compromise. If I were given a few days to edit it exactly the way I wanted, it would hardly be recognizable as the same article. Just chill out, assume good faith, and especially, be civil. --Muéro 02:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Who is who in that thread above? No one signed anything. ccwaters 03:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

If you go back and look at my post (here), and then read when User:Jaskaramdeep edited it (here), it will make more sense. User:Jaskaramdeep inserted his comments within my post, so now everything is hard to read. It's so messed up now that I don't even know how to fix it . . . ––Muéro 03:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

RfC

I come to this page with absolute ignorance of Ales Hemsky and little knowledge of ice hockey, but with considerable experience as a Wikipedian. Muéro has acted well by requesting comments: the tone of the dialogue here had started to get contentious. Before things degenerated into real hostility this editor sought fresh perspectives. That's exactly what a good editor should do. The aim is not to prove anybody right or wrong, but to make the article better.

The article shows considerable effort and a good detailed knowledge of its subject. Although I cannot comment on its accuracy, I follow other sports enough to have a general understanding of what this sort of piece should convey. The information is well organized and some elements, such as the statistics table, reflect real care and devotion.

That said, I would not have rated this a good article. It is desperately short on citations and offers many opinions editorially that ought to be substantiated with references to professional sports writers. The following is one example:

"Often in his first two years with the Oilers, Hemsky would lose the puck trying to do too much, and was thoroughally criticized by the Edmonton media. His instincts seemed to be fine, but his execution of plays looked to be lacking because of limited confidence."

If the Edmonton press criticized Hemsky so thoroughly then it ought to be easy to cite at least one actual example of this criticism. The unsupported assertions "trying to do too much," "instincts seemed to be fine," and "limited confidence" are crystal-ball-gazing speculations that require supernatural powers. If some journalists in Canada claim such abilities then by all means quote their insights into Mr. Hemsky's psyche (and afterward ask them to tell me what my boyfriend is thinking because I can't make it out) - but seriously this goes far beyond what a Misplaced Pages article can assert editorially. Back it up with references.

Several talk page comments raised my eyebrow. Here's one:

"Before I get into this, I am going to note that I am a third-year university student. One of my essays was even published by the U (http://www.humanities.ualberta.ca/mmorris/101D2/Strange%20Meeting%20essa%20Jas.htm), so I don't think I'll be conceding any points based on writing skill."

I recommend reconsidering that opinion unless "thoroughally" observes a special Canadian spelling rule: humility is a virtue. My own writing at Misplaced Pages has also been criticized, sometimes quite justly - even though I take credit for three featured Misplaced Pages pages, have an Ivy League education, studied writing in graduate school, and have published more than some of the living writers whose biographies are already in Misplaced Pages. No one writes perfectly and one of the few ways to improve is to accept constructive feedback.

If the editor who wrote the above is content with a medicre article that gets a little more recognition than it deserves, then by all means reject further input with the same haughty manner. Continued mediocrity and probably a "former good article" template will be the result. To the extent that I understand the subject, the criticisms and suggestions raised on this talk page seem quite valid, and the article would benefit if they were taken seriously. Whoever brought the article to its current level has worked hard, probably as hard as he or she thought possible, and now a new challenge for improvements could raise the article to the next level. Treat this challenge as an opportunity. Regards, Durova 08:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm a multiply-published author, but that doesn't insulate me from the need to write NPOV, the same as any other editor. I agree with Durova and Muero that even by the standards of a sports article it is as written rampant with POV violations, speculation and editorializing. He had a single season in which he led his team in scoring, and was in the top ten in the league in only a single category (10th in assists). Perhaps we can wait a bit before conceding him superstar status, and I'm minded to go revert some of the more raw editorializing right now. RGTraynor 03:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

And done; it looks a bit better now. And ... like Durova, I'd advise a degree of a humility about any "writing skill" that produced as many spelling errors as all of that. RGTraynor 03:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

As a reader second and a die-hard Oilers fan first, I have to agree with the comments made regarding the neutrality of this article. It reads more like a message board thread than it does an encyclopedia article. As an example, how can one state that McKee hit Hemsky "with intent to injure" as fact? We don't know his intent. We can look at the hit and the circumstances and say that with 80% certainty he hit with intent to injure. But 80% does not make fact. As an Oiler fan, I too was fired up - but that does not allow me the luxury of assuming I know what people are thinking. The fact is that players on the ice react to hits of any kind when placed on a top player - whether clean or dirty. This is only one example, but it's representative of many of the 'facts' the author has chosen to use. Anyways, it's looking better. Apedrape83 11:29, 11 September 2006

Based on the breathless, fan version of the entry discussed above versus the current "just the facts" Hemsky article now on display, the on-display version is much more factual and scholarly. A tad dry, but we're not trying to replace Robert Ludlum on the best seller lists. There could be room for some "added colour" in discussing the length and value of the Hemsky contract -- both uncharacteristic long and generous compared to recent signings by Oilers management -- and reflects the view that Oilers management regards Hemsky as a special talent and anticipate the impact this player is expected to have in coming seasons. I'm certain a suitable attribution to that effect can be found. Matthew McCallum 12:21, 16 September 2006

Good article review

I've submitted this article for impartial review of GA status. Durova 16:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I came here as a result of the RFC, but it appears that work is progressing. Is the RFC listing still necessary? If so, can someone fill me in on the thumbnail argument? If not, it perhaps should be removed from the RFC list. Thanks E. Ripley 04:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Today's edit

Here's why I reverted what was added to the article today:

• According to Dictionary.com, en.wiktionary.org, and Google, "opitimize" is not a word.
• Two tags were removed from the article without proper discussion on the talk page.
• Off-topic information was added (the difference between Prendergast's and Fraser's drafting style, which is just Prendergast's opinion anyway)
• A source was given for a quotation, but the formatting was not correct.
• In a encyclopedic biography, the persons name should be used throughout the article, not an epithet, especially when the epithet is non-verifiable.
• There are more formatting errors that would have easily been seen if the edit was previewed.
• The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth.
  • How can we verify that Pardubice is obscure?
  • How can we verify that playing in the QMJHL gave Hemsky the best chance of being drafted?
  • How can we verify that "Hemksy was key to the Oilers run"?
  • How can we verify that Hemsky's goals "allowed" the Oilers to reach the Finals? Would they not have reached the finals without him?

--Muéro 17:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, I'm going to give links, and if you want to include them, and format them the way that you like, go ahead. Why does information need to be removed if the formatting of the source is not the way you like it? I'm going to keep reverting, but now I know that a Red Wing fan is watching the page and making sure that nothing positive is said about the guy who eliminated them from the playoffs without all the proper verification, I'm going to cite it instead of assuming common knowledge to anyone with a brain.

• Then change the spelling. Don't revert the edit
• Then add the tags again. Don't rever the edit
• It's off-topic only in your opinion, and as I've told you several times, your opinion is not rule. It was this change of philosophy which is why Hemsky is an Oiler, and not a Red Wing.
• Then change the formatting for the quoation. Don't rever the edit.
• Then change the article so that his name is used throughout it. Don't revert the edit.
  • Verify that Pardubice is obscure, and that the Q gave Hemsky the best chance of being drafted by this quote: "In the summer of 2000 Ales and his brother had to face a tough decision. After lots of talking to other people and their father, they finally decided to come over to North America. Ales had the situation tougher than Petr because he could have been provided with a chance to play in the Extraleague, but he thought that toiling on the fourth line or playing with juniors wouldn't help his development and that it is better when the NHL scouts can see him every game. Besides, he is willing to play hard. So he went through the CHL Import Draft. ". Also verify that Pardubice is obscure in relation to the NHL by fact that the NHL is in North America, and Pardubice is in the Czech Republic.
  • Verify that Hemsky was key to the Oilers' run by the fact that he was 11th in overall playoff points, 9th overall in assists, and 5th overall in playoff Game Winning Goals. http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Stats/changeSortColumnAction&fetchKey=20063ALLSASAll&sort=gameWinningGoals&viewName=summary
  • Nowhere does it say that his goals 'allowed' the Oilers to reach the cup finals. If you're referring to the statement that says that his game winning goals down the stretch allowed the oilers to capture the 8th seed, you can change the word allowed to helped.

I don't have an issue with the page as I've reverted it. It is your issue, and so you should be the one doing the grunt work. I've provided the information you requested, so if you just revert the page again instead of revising it to reflect my sources, ignoring the fact that I've (again) given you all the answers to your endless questions, I will be forced to do likewise.

Peace out, and don't let the stress of living such an antagonistic lifestyle kill you young Jaskaramdeep 22:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Muéro, revert warring is not the way to solve an editorial dispute. Jaskaramdeep, much of your edit was couched in a conversational and subjective rather than an encyclopaedic tone, and there were some assertions of at least quesitonable merit. The solution is to discuss the changes here and come up with a form of words whichj gets across what you are trying to say in a way which other editors are happy with. It should not be hard; you just need to focus on the core facts you are trying to convey, with their sources, and then work on the best way of including them. Sometimes a quote with attribution is a good way of achieving this: according to foo the move placed him better to be noticed by scouts or some such. Guy 13:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

"The solution is to discuss the changes here and come up with a form of words whichj gets across what you are trying to say in a way which other editors are happy with." I could not agree with this more. I literally begged Muero to discuss possible deletions before making changes, but in the end all that occured was him going "POV, POV, POV", instead of actually thinking about the subject matter as it relates to the article, and what can be assumed based on common knowledge. That's what riled me up, and made me take such a defensive stand in the first place. If all of you guys just go to the Ice Hockey Player template, you will see that one of the FIRST things I did, before even finishing it, was to create a "Suggestion for Change" heading in the talk page. It was Muero's arrogance, and consistant unwillingness to compromise in ways which I so often have done, that really got me going. As I've already said, looking back, lots of the stuff I originally wrote was POV, and should have been removed. But lots wasn't, and still hasn't been restored, even though I've provided links. This article is only about 1/2 the length it should be, but I'm not going to go scrounging for links to back up every statement I will eventually replace because I'm in school now. Later I'll look for the links and add them as I restore deletions, even though every sentace will have a citation (which I still don't think is appropriate, because no Misplaced Pages articles have every sentance cited), but according to the "rules", that's what has to be done, so eventually I'll get around to doing it. Jaskaramdeep 00:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, firstly could I say that I also fully agree with Guy. However, describing other editors as arrogant in the middle of a content dispute isn't very productive. Could I suggest you attempt to resolve the situation without any further name calling. Regarding every sentence having a citation, have a look at some featured articles, in these you should find the references fully support the text. That doesn't always imply that every sentence has a citation. It does however mean there isn't any unsupported personal commentary. If you add material that isn't supported, I would suggest that other editors should in the first instance mark this material using {{fact}} tags and then later remove the material until you find the references. Lasly could I suggest you keep calm, there isn't any need to get "riled up". Thanks, Addhoc 10:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

(1) Referring to someone as arrogant isn't "name-calling". If I called him a jackass, that would be name-calling; arrogance is well defined as a personality trait.

(2) As for using featured articles as reference, I'm all for that. Because featured articles don't cite every sentance in the way Muera would like. Random examples from the Wayne Gretzky article:

"On August 9, 1988, in a move that drastically changed the dynamics of the NHL, Gretzky was traded with Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski by the Oilers to the Los Angeles Kings..."

"Gretzky's dominance throughout his career was attributed to the amount of time he practiced (by his own account, at least 4-5 hours a day) and also that he was a natural prodigy"

"During the 1981-82 season, he surpassed one of the game's most cherished records: 50 goals in 50 games."

"After "The Trade", Gretzky's personal popularity sank across Canada, but only temporarily."

"Gretzky's first season in Los Angeles saw a marked increase in attendance and fan interest in a city not previously known for following ice hockey."

POV, POV, POV, POV, POV. But it's all true though, right? Some common sense needs to be used once in a while, and I'm saying that that common sense is not being allowed in this article. I can't even call Hemsky a "talented playmaker"!! I have found a source for that though, as well as a quote that refers to his "increasing confidence as the last season went on", but the irony within the article of the Edmonton Sun writer preambling with "Any fan sitting in the cheapest seats in the house can see...". lol. 129.128.67.22 17:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• B-Class biography articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• Delisted good articles
• Unassessed Ice Hockey articles