| Revision as of 09:26, 9 October 2006 editNepaheshgar (talk | contribs)16,882 edits →Information about Pishevari← Previous edit | Revision as of 09:41, 9 October 2006 edit undoNepaheshgar (talk | contribs)16,882 edits →Information about PishevariNext edit → | ||
| Line 83: | Line 83: | ||
| ::::::: I agree with alidoostzadeh, your additions are highly speculative and POV. On top of that, your selective "academic sources" are not verifiable as the links you've provided require registration. --] 06:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC) | ::::::: I agree with alidoostzadeh, your additions are highly speculative and POV. On top of that, your selective "academic sources" are not verifiable as the links you've provided require registration. --] 06:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::::::: According to Iran: A country Study by the Federal Research Division, Kessinger Publishing , ''Without Soviet Backing, the Pishevari government collapsed and Pishevari himself fled to the Soviet Unition''. I can show great many instances where the Pishevari government was despised and that is why it collapsed without any resistance unlike the Kurdish democratic party which had some grass root support amongst Sunni Kurds. Also the Encyclopedia of Islam article is old whereas my unclassified top secret sources are new and show there was no internal movement that led to such a party but it was the sole creation of Stalin. |
::::::: According to Iran: A country Study by the Federal Research Division, Kessinger Publishing , ''Without Soviet Backing, the Pishevari government collapsed and Pishevari himself fled to the Soviet Unition''. I can show great many instances where the Pishevari government was despised and that is why it collapsed without any resistance unlike the Kurdish democratic party which had some grass root support amongst Sunni Kurds. Also the Encyclopedia of Islam article is old whereas my unclassified top secret sources are new and show there was no internal movement that led to such a party but it was the sole creation of Stalin. It was previously unknown to some scholars why the Pishevari government out of the sudden rose up after the USSR invasion of NW Iran, but with the new unclassified information, everything is made clear and old analsysis should mention these three important sources. There is nothing POV about the unclassified top seceret documents showing that the creation of the party was directly by the order of Stalin and thus it had no internal existence and it collapsed the first day the USSR left within 24 hours. --] 09:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| Line 94: | Line 94: | ||
| ] 06:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC) | ] 06:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::: There was no irredentist movement, except what the USSR created as the unclassified information showed. |
::: There was no irredentist movement, except what the USSR created by the direct orders of Stalin as the unclassified information showed. It is true that Persian was declared the only official language since 1906 (before Pahlavi and during the constitutionalist movement) and the Pahlavi's only thought Persian in school except for few cases. And there was a Zoroastrianist campaign which was more at an attempt for de-Islamification of Iranian society. But as for the name part I disagree since majority of Iranians have Arabic names, and Turkish names like Yashar, Aidin, Sanaaz are as popular as any other name during the Pahlavid era. But Just like their was more serious Azerification campaign of Kurds, Talysh and Lezgins and etc or even more serious one in Turkey and Ba'athist Iraq. I am not sure how much of all these informations are relavent to this article. But the current discussion is about Pishevari's movement and there should be a separate article on Ferqeh and Pivherai. According to Iran: A country Study by the Federal Research Division, Kessinger Publishing , ''Without Soviet Backing, the Pishevari government collapsed and Pishevari himself fled to the Soviet Unition''. It actually collapsed in a day because people of Tabriz actually revolted against it and there is a lot of memoirs about this as well another source I brought from Professor. Hess. I am not sure putting up two three pages about Pishevari movement is a good idea on this article and it should have it's own relavent article. It was previously unknown to some scholars why the Pishevari government out of the sudden rose up after the USSR invasion of NW Iran, but with the new unclassified information, everything is made clear and old analsysis should mention these three important sources.--] 09:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 09:41, 9 October 2006
Template:Featured article is only for Misplaced Pages:Featured articles. Template:Mainpage date Template:V0.5
 | Azerbaijan Unassessed | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
 | Iran Unassessed | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
 | Ethnic groups Unassessed | ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
 Archives | |
|---|---|
Women Section
Not that I disagree with any of the sentiment expressed, but the Women section is not NPOV in its language, UberIcarus
- I think that I've found an error in this section. It says "The Republic of Azerbaijan is also one of the few Muslim countries where abortion is available on demand."
But the reference is pointing here: http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:AbortionLawsAroundtheWorld.png ... an image; and I've searched, and the article that should point is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/Abortion_law
If this is true, can someone change it. (Sorry about the english)
Encylopaedia of Islam...
Just a little correction, based on the ENGLISH version of this encyclopaedia, in the word ADHARBAYJAN, "DH" means "Z" (according to the pronunciation), since it has been translated from ARABIC to ENGLISH, so by reffering to the original Arabic versions of encyclopaedias - old and new - the word will be آذربايجان EN: Azær ba i jan.
- Well I don't think that "Ayatollah Khamenei" is an ethnic azeri, he was born in the city of mashhad, north-eastern Iran, his mom was persian, his DAD was a half azeri living in "Najaf" IRAQ, so he doesn't know anything about azeri culture, I would say he is a persian since he speaks persian not turkish! he is just 25% azeri with no azeri education.
- Actually his dad is Azarbaijani and has trouble speaking Persian. Ayatollah Khamenei is related to Shaykh Mahmud Khiyabani. As per his mom I am not sure but I am pretty sure she is an Azerbaijani as well. As for being born in Mash-had that is true, but many Azarbaijanis are born in Tehran as well. So just because they are born in a non-Azerbaijani speaking environment, it does not make them non-Azerbaijani. Also Khaemeni speaks Azerbaijani and Turkish well and whenever Erbakan or Aliyev have visited, he didn't need a translator. --Ali doostzadeh 01:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- The spelling of the EI is correct. The Arabic "ذ" is pronounced like "dh", comparable to the English "th". Because Persians cannot prnounce these kinds of sounced, it turned "Azerbaijan". Later, the Turks simply copied from Persian. It should be noted that the name "Azerbaijan" is the ARABIC version of the original Median "Azerpadegan".
- As for Khomeini, it is absolutely no secret that he and his family were from India. That's why he always signed his letters with "al-Hindi". The question remains whether his family had setteled in Iran much earlier, or that he himself was an Indian Muslim. Some language experts and reporters (I have no time to google their names right now) maintain that Khomeini was not able to speak correct Persian except for some 100 common words. That's why most of his speeches were written by others and he always refused to give spontanious interviews. Tājik 10:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, my mistake ... you're talking about Khamenei ... lol ...OK, he is deffinitly Azari. :) Tājik 10:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, this is the thing, we say that khomeini has an indian background, that doesn't mean that he is an indian which he wasn't. he was mostly iranian, and about khamenei, he has a turkish background from his father side, but he wasn't even born in azerbaijan, i mean he rathers to speak farsi, if he is a turk, so even if we say he is a turk, me as a turk don't know him as a turk coz he hates turks, if he was a real turk, he wouldn't at least forget his own language, so what was his real first language? No persian teaches his or her child turkish, but some turks do teach their kids persian, and the kids are not turks anymore, this is the problem, i mean we have nothing to do with farsi, we like it as it is, but it shouldn't be in a way so every single turk becomes a persian...in that case turks won't accept it as before, coz they know anyways they are turks, like a persian knows his/her background, and names, i would say let's not talk about "azerbaijan" since the islamic culture affected these lands alot, azerbaijan has been written in arabic that way cause that was the best way of writing with an advanced alphabet at that time, the same thing happened to other names, and for your info: azerbaijan is more turkish that any other name, they kept the name as they did their language, if you knew turkish you wouldn't make similarities between that and "padegan", and for more info: have a look at khazar, and ask turkmens what they still call azerbaijan! and you know medians were not persians right? pure aryans? No. .. azerbaijan and cacasia was full of people when aryans were not even close to persia, "persia" is only respectable for persians,but persians are respectable for us, persians belong to persian lands, turks to turkish lands, and so...being a persian or turk has nothing to do with cyrus or babak or khamenei or hitler or gandi, everyone watns to be something neither me or you can change it.
- Please read carefully. Khaemeni speakes both Persian and Azeri-Turkish very well. He says in his biography that he learned as kid as it was a language used in his house. When Aliyev or Erbakan comes to Tehran, he doesn't need a translator. Also the name Azarbaijan is Iranian (it is not in any ancient Turkish source). --Ali doostzadeh 16:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
- I am curious to know, where did Khamnei said he knows Azeri-Turkish very well . On his own official site, there is no mention of Azeri what so ever. Can you please direct me to your source of claim. I can't find any information regarding his ability to talk Turkish with Erbakan either. I am an Azeri Turk myself and have grown up within kilometers of the Turkish border, have Turkish friends, yet not comfortable talking simple topics with a Turkish person , how can he talk state matters with head of another state only talking Azeri perhaps with his grandpa? Thanks. Mehrdad 19:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Azeris in Fars province?
I'm not sure whether it's accurate to state that Azeris live in Fars. I think those who live there are actually the Qashqai who aren't really Azeri. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Parishan (talk • contribs) 03:42, 21 August 2006.
"Azeri Genetic"
It's this a new Style of Rassismus ala Hitler or what ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.72.9.106 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 25 September 2006.
- What's wrong with a little genetics? —Khoikhoi 01:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe they are scared of the results? And last I checked, Hitler and the Nazi's never used genetics. LOLKhosrow II 02:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Information about Pishevari
Please do not remove sourced material from the article, specially the material from Encyclopaedia of Islam.Heja Helweda 20:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- The new encyclopedia of Islam does not consider TOP SECRET declassified information that were recently published by the former USSR within the last 5-10. This changes a lot of the equation and views on Ferqeh. Note the classified documents were memos from Stalin to Baqeroff himself. So unless you have new sources that take this major historic viewpoint shift into account, then it is considered obsolete with that regard. Plus this is not an article on Ferqeh to write 20 lines on it. --alidoostzadeh 21:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Encyclopedia of Islam is a very old resource and many articles have not been updated in years. It is not the best resource for these kinds of topics. Khorshid 06:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- To give example, Encyclopedia of Islam does not even call Iran Iran but Persia and Iranian citizens as Persians despite if even they are not ethnically Persian! LOL Khorshid 06:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- The Encyclopaedia of Islam is an authoritative source written by experts. If anyone wants to disprove the EI, he/she has to come up with REALLY good literature. Tājik 10:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- True it is good on historical aspects. But information on modern politics can change. The new released top secret materials that are memo's from Stalin to Baqirov is a case point. --alidoostzadeh 14:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- The removed sentences were about linguistic and cultural grievances of Azerbaijanis at that time, this does not need top secret documents :) Heja Helweda 00:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- This article is not about Ferqeh. And I disagree that there was wide linguistic grievances as the government of Pishevari would not have fallen in oneday if it was popular. Also any analysis of the movement should take the above unclassified secret materials into account since they effect all aspects of the image of Ferqeh. --alidoostzadeh 02:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- We cannot rely on our individual beliefs, it is safer to refer to some academic sources. If you can provide any scholarly source regarding your beliefs, it would greatly enhance the article.Heja Helweda 05:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with alidoostzadeh, your additions are highly speculative and POV. On top of that, your selective "academic sources" are not verifiable as the links you've provided require registration. --Mardavich 06:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- According to Iran: A country Study by the Federal Research Division, Kessinger Publishing , Without Soviet Backing, the Pishevari government collapsed and Pishevari himself fled to the Soviet Unition. I can show great many instances where the Pishevari government was despised and that is why it collapsed without any resistance unlike the Kurdish democratic party which had some grass root support amongst Sunni Kurds. Also the Encyclopedia of Islam article is old whereas my unclassified top secret sources are new and show there was no internal movement that led to such a party but it was the sole creation of Stalin. It was previously unknown to some scholars why the Pishevari government out of the sudden rose up after the USSR invasion of NW Iran, but with the new unclassified information, everything is made clear and old analsysis should mention these three important sources. There is nothing POV about the unclassified top seceret documents showing that the creation of the party was directly by the order of Stalin and thus it had no internal existence and it collapsed the first day the USSR left within 24 hours. --alidoostzadeh 09:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I think one of the reasons for irredentist movement in Iranian Azerbaijan was Persianization campaign, which was pursued by Reza shah. This information is verifiable from scholarly literature.
The steps that the Teheran regime took in the 1930s with the aim of Persianization of the Azeris and other minorities appeared to take a leaf from the writings of the reformist-minded intellectuals in the previous decade. In the quest of imposing national homogeneity on the country where half of the population consisted of ethnic minorities, the Pahlavi regime issued in quick succession bans on the use of Azeri on the premises of schools, in theatrical performances, religious ceremonies, and, finally, in the publication of books. Azeri was reduced to the status of a language that only could be spoken and hardly ever written. As the Persianization campaign gained momentum, it drew inspiration from the revivalist spirit of Zoroastrian national glories. There followed even more invasive official practices, such as changing Turkic-sounding geographic names and interference with giving children names other than Persian ones.
Tadeusz Swietochowski, Russia and Azerbaijan: A Borderland in Transition. ISBN: 0231070683
Grandmaster 06:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- There was no irredentist movement, except what the USSR created by the direct orders of Stalin as the unclassified information showed. It is true that Persian was declared the only official language since 1906 (before Pahlavi and during the constitutionalist movement) and the Pahlavi's only thought Persian in school except for few cases. And there was a Zoroastrianist campaign which was more at an attempt for de-Islamification of Iranian society. But as for the name part I disagree since majority of Iranians have Arabic names, and Turkish names like Yashar, Aidin, Sanaaz are as popular as any other name during the Pahlavid era. But Just like their was more serious Azerification campaign of Kurds, Talysh and Lezgins and etc or even more serious one in Turkey and Ba'athist Iraq. I am not sure how much of all these informations are relavent to this article. But the current discussion is about Pishevari's movement and there should be a separate article on Ferqeh and Pivherai. According to Iran: A country Study by the Federal Research Division, Kessinger Publishing , Without Soviet Backing, the Pishevari government collapsed and Pishevari himself fled to the Soviet Unition. It actually collapsed in a day because people of Tabriz actually revolted against it and there is a lot of memoirs about this as well another source I brought from Professor. Hess. I am not sure putting up two three pages about Pishevari movement is a good idea on this article and it should have it's own relavent article. It was previously unknown to some scholars why the Pishevari government out of the sudden rose up after the USSR invasion of NW Iran, but with the new unclassified information, everything is made clear and old analsysis should mention these three important sources.--alidoostzadeh 09:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)