Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:47, 19 October 2006

Isn't the building in "Szentkirályi u. 18." their new office building? See Google Adam78 23:20, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Liberal conservative

FIDESZ-MPP = Liberal Conservative? My foot! Nationalists...without a doubt.Lightning-Feather 02:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, try to tell a Fidesz supporter that the party is liberal conservative. Wait for the response. Then reconsider this classification. Also, mind recent proposals in the campaign of extending the budget, etc. --Sicboy 00:46, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but if they're a conservative party, then why they call the Christian Democrat and conservative MIÉP and JOBBIK far-right?

Because they are a conservative party and MIÉP-Jobbik is far-right. I do not understand the contradiction

Why was Orbán Viktor the vice president of the Liberal International?

Because he was the vice president of the Liberal International. Now he is vice president, or anything of the EPP (European conservative alliance)

Why they never really accepted that they're a conservative party, whilst every other party decided its political position?

Huh!?

Why they sweared the Christian people earlier in the parliament?

????

Why they messed up the centre-right FKGP?

FKGP, well it was a strange party, with a clown as president, now a) FKGP messed up by itself, b) Fidesz helped FKGP to commit suicide, but why is this an argument for Fidesz being liberal!?

Why they "speak conservative and do liberal"? Why? Why? Why?

I think they speak conservative/social and do conservative/social. They "did liberal" in 1999 the last time. --Sicboy 01:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I see you are Fidesz supporter, I'm a Third Way supporter. You'll not agree with me, I'll not agree with you. Always that old right-wing argue. I give up, and I accept that this is the Wiki-objectiveness. I'm just a Guest. Goodbye, my brother!

I'm not a supporter of anyone, please read my words again, I believe I am objective. I think that nobody thinks Fidesz is liberal in Hungary, nor fideszians, nor mszpians, nor supporters of the Two-Tailed Dog Party. And that is a reason. Good night --Sicboy 13:40, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it's better to characterize the rhetoric of the party as increasingly nationalist and populist. The amount of room to maneuver politically in a Hungary within the EU is limited, and the policies of the MSZP-SZDSZ coalition have consistantly included substantial free-market reforms and privitisation, so that a clear left-right, or socialized vs. market orientation division is not to be found between the parties or possible coalitions. Indeed, a great deal of FIDESZ's campaigning against the MSZP-SZDSZ has been against further privitasition of "peoples' property" and against a "cosmopolitan" (non-nationalist) world view.

Fidesz

To the author: The last sentence doesn't make sense. I suggest "In 2005 FIDESZ and the KDNP formed a coalition." or something like that. To Sicboy: this is not a campaign site. Let cool heads prevail. /And NPOW/

milfor

sure about NPOV, but Fidesz is neither thought to be liberal, nor do they call themselves that. They are now members in the European People's Party etc. Fidesz supporters don't think they are liberal, and opponents don't think that either. They can be classified as christian-democratic, with attention to social and national issues, or sth like that. About the last sentence: the list running on the 2006 elections will be called "Fidesz-KDNP", that means, they count as election alliance (thus needing the 10% margin, etc.), this is a formal issue. --Sicboy 22:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Date for the conservative turn

It was written in the article:

In 1993 Fidesz realigned its political position into a conservative line where it is now,

You corrected:

After its poor result in the 1994 election, Fidesz started to realign its political position towards a conservative line, where it is now.

According to the history of Fidesz on its website, the conservative turn began not in 1994, but as early as in 1992. Here's a sentence from the text:

On a FIDESZ rally held in October (*), Viktor Orbán stated that the country may only be managed in a secure manner by a government made up of the forces of the civic centre.

(*): it turns out from the next sentence that the October of 1992 is meant.

So I'll revert this change of yours, unless you show me I'm wrong.

Adam78 20:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)</nowiki>

I think the 1994 election results are relevant, because this was the shock that made the transformation of the party possible. You are right that there was a faction in Fidesz which had always argued for a more neutral stance between the Liberals and the Conservatives. However, this faction was not dominant until after the 1994 elections. --Zyzzyva 13:38, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Adam, you are wrong. When Orbán talked about the civic center (polgári középerők) in 1992, he meant the liberal alliance of SZDSZ, Fidesz, Party of Entrepreneurs and the Agrarian Alliance. See this video, available from hvg.hu.

Cooperation with the center-right MDF was completely out of the question until the SZDSZ's 'betrayal' (ie, coalition with the Socialists) after the 1994 election; this is clear from the other videos from 1994 featuring Orbán, on the same site. The word 'civic' only got redefined (by Orbán) to mean 'on the political right' much later.

Please read the collected by József Debreczeni, including the longer context of your "polgári középerők" quote. He (and Fidesz) was clearly liberal, with no hint of conservatism until the second half of 1994.

Zsebenci Klopédia 18:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

nationalist

The FIDESZ-MPP are nationalists, and very likely ultra-nationalists. Why? First of all, a number of mass media articles and other coverage, both domestic (Hungarian) and foreign, have concluded, based on their actions, statements, rallies, and their own admission, that they are nationalists or ultra-nationalists. Something I witnessed in Budapest during the elections in 2002: FIDESZ-MPSZ (the part after the hyphen has changed over and over) told their voters, most of whom do not deny being nationalists, to wear the national colors pin, or cocard, and carry Hungarian flags during the elections, at all times if possible, to show that they are true, patriotic Hungarians, unlike the MSZP and their junior SZDSZ, who, acccording to FIDESZ, are traitors of the nation!!! Of the total Hungarian voting population at least 50% of them favor MSZP, SZDSZ, and an assortium of other progressive parties or the relatively moderate MDF! In fact, Mrs. Ibolya David, head of the MDF (Magyar Demokrata Forum) broke up with Mr. Viktor Orban and have since been bitter rivals for the affections of the right-wing voters!!! Anyway, I will not put the term "nationalists" or "ultra-nationalists" myself, since I was the first to notice the ommission, but I strongly suggest it should be done for historic accuracy's sake. FIDESZ-MPP are more like Austrian Jorg Haider's Freedom Party than Wolfgang Schussel's Conservative Party. Ultimately anyone concerned can contact Amnesty International or French Conservative party (Chirac will no longer take Orban's calls...wonder why...and Angela Merkel of Germany would not come to Hungary to show up for Viktor during the 2006 Spring elections...hmmm...).Lightning-Feather 02:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Stop giving this fake information to the article. clear statement can be read here, from the source abt this: fidesz tries to convince the nationalist also to vote to them, instead of MIÉP, to win. I wonder, how many other sources could be adulterated.

I ask for a check on User:Tankred's all sources because of possible adulteration. --195.56.242.11 23:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The article states that Fidesz "emerged as the core of integrated right conservative nationalist forces"; "the FIDESZ partly incorporated the Antall cult of inter-war nostalgia and what the HDF stood for in their time and reawakened Hungarian nationalism in a somewhat extreme form which eventually backfired in 2002", "The FIDESZ-CP also drifted progressively to more radical nationalist policies rebuilding past images and symbolism, tapping successfully the nationalist feelings". I have recently added two other sources. So, there are now three articles published in the leading English-speaking academic journals. Anyone can check them. The are all very explicit: Fidesz is a nationalist party and it is not an insult. It is just a correct description by political scientists. Tankred 00:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

BBC article online:

• His Young Democrats were founded in 1988 by a small group of dissident students. Since then, Orban's politics have moved from youthful radicalism, through free-market liberalism, to centre-right nationalism.

-- nyenyec ☎ 15:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

People who edit here should check out the Anarchism in Hungary article. I don't think any of the organizations listed there as being anarchist are actually anarcchist at all. i don't know anything about Hungarian politics but reading the pages and descriptions of those organizations does not lead to the conclusion that they are anarchist. Blockader 15:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The current text says:

• This statement has been challenged by the party, as the views of MIÉP are more extreme. However, the presence of the extremist MIÉP in the Hungarian party system does not necessarily preclude nationalism of other political parties.

However, none of the sources support the statement that Fidesz has challenged the assertion that it's a nationalistic. The sources that have been provided support the statement that MIÉP is an extreme right wing party but this is an ignoratio elenchi it has nothing to do with FIDESZ being nationalistic or not. -- nyenyec ☎ 22:34, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with Nyenyec. That section of the article was added by VinceB in order to justify his removal of the description of the party as nationalist from the lead. I have just changes the text, so it does not contradict the sources that it cites. Tankred 01:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

1. Extremism in Europe
2. Institute of Race Relations. "The new centre-Right coalition government, led by the Fidesz party, has refused to except any support from the extreme-Right Hungarian Justice and Life Party"
3. Another article from IRR stating Fidesz as centre-right party, and MIÉP as nationalist/far-right