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harsh douche-canoe?

Never encountered User:Jack Sebastian before so was very surprised to be called a "harsh douche-canoe" (whatever that is, it sounds awful) and to have Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cherise Haugen mocked with vulgarity. Attempts to deal with the user failed at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Cherise_Haugen and He brought it to my talkpage User_talk:Legacypac#Yeah,_about_that... saying he could take me to ANi. Is this kind of attack against a good faith editor acceptable or is a block warranted? Legacypac (talk) 01:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

No and no. Joefromrandb (talk) 02:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Harsh douche-canoe is pretty good -- either Twainesque or Hammett-esque, not sure which -- but it should really be reserved for a situation with more at stake. Wasted here. EEng 02:19, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

If you take douche as a shower (French) this would just be spraying down your canoe with a 10% vinegar solution. Not a very powerful insult.104.163.148.25 (talk) 07:23, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I was going for a Hunter S. Thompson vibe. I'm an asshole sometimes; I'm working on it. I kinda hate it when someone comes to a deletion discussion and gets treated as poorly as Legacypac did for PageantUpdater. Verbally tapping such a user on the shoulder often has no effect; they shrug it off. Give them a figurative shove and call them on their bad behavior often does the trick. Unfortunately, Legacypac only saw how someone being harsh to him affected them. Had they been nicer, the discussion would have simply continued. Maybe the user thinks they're being "edgy" and "kewl" instead of insensitive and rude. Politeness goes a long way to maintaining civil conversations. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 03:09, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Well, Mr. Justice League, maybe you should have picked the correct side in your fight for Truth, Justice, and the American Way, since it's PageantUpdater with the long record of pitching fits when challenged. --Calton | Talk 06:39, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

{"Mr. Justice League" - that's pretty good!) I wasn't responding to PageantUpdater's behavior, which seemed fine in this instance. He was reasonable; Legacypac's approach was trout-worthy. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:20, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't care that much about users here calling each other this and that, but don't talk about article subjects like you do in that AfD, Legacypac. "It is laughable to call this person an 'actress'" — really? That wasn't even in response to something, it was what you opened with. Consider that the person may well be watching their bio page, and therefore may see what you say about them in the AfD. Please think twice before you laugh at them. Bishonen | talk 11:24, 10 February 2018 (UTC).

I did NOT laugh at the subject rather I rejected the claim, in Misplaced Pages voice, that the subject is an "actress" for what the source calls "one small acting role in the Michael J. Fox and Joan Jett movie "Light of Day."" There is a difference between doing something little bit once and being labeled a professional by Misplaced Pages. Legacypac (talk) 11:45, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

That's not what I was talking about, Legacypac. Not even slightly. It's the way you put it. You said it's laughable to call her an actress. Is my point clearer if I say "Please think twice before you sneer at living people"? Just stop digging and try to "reject claims" a little more sensitively. The "subject" is an actual woman. What if she was your sister? Bishonen | talk 12:18, 10 February 2018 (UTC).

My female reletives are not actresses or models either and if wikipedia claimed they were it would be laughable too. Nice you "don't care" about direct attacks on living people who edit, only imagined slights against subjects who may or may not be watching. How would you feel if random editors started insulting you? Legacypac (talk) 12:34, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Kind of the point, Legacypac: how do you think the subject of the article feels about you insulting her? How would her daughters feel, reading that? How should PageantUpdater feel about you snidely dismissing his polite remarks? Dude, please begin to get the point. You have to think about shit that affects others, not just yourself. Think before you edit, please. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Aside: I find it bloody irritating that putting out one ghostwritten memoir immediately leads to "author" being added to every "celebrity"'s Misplaced Pages biography, and putting ten bucks in a charity pot adds "philanthropist", and so on. Guy (Help!) 13:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Me too. Part of the New Normal in the Realm of False Equivalence. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

User:PageantUpdater has not been treated rudely, but is making comments on AfDs that are building toward a topic ban. The real tragedy is the fancruft fans that insist on making pages for private low profile individuals that include guesswork and unsourced nonsense. The ghits for one of the ones I researched yesterday did not even cover a page of results, with the top one being her facebook profile with 88 followers and the second one her twitter handle. The rest were the Misplaced Pages page, related list pages and Wiki mirrors. Low Profile in every way. We are invading her privacy by working on the page. Legacypac (talk) 06:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I have to say, that is the first time I have ever heard - as a reason to delete an article - that we were invading someone's privacy by keeping it. Inventive.

However, it isn't the first time I have heard someone throw shade at an article because they they just didn't think it was worth their time. Brother (or sister- I am not sure how you gender-equate), I have seen fancruft before, and the article isn't it. You earn yourself no points by continuing to throw shit at the article, like some ill-tempered chimp. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 06:40, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• • • WP:BLP1E, WP:DOB, WP:NPF and WP:BIO1E all apply to someone that won a contest as a child and went on to live a low profile life. Throwing in parent and sibling names runs against WP:BLPNAME privacy conserns. Legacypac (talk) 17:53, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

References

Man, I want you on my team for dodgeball. It seems no one can connect you with The Point. Sigh. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:04, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Lol a topic ban? Really? For one of the only editors interested in the topic who has spent hours improving and referencing articles? I even applied for a Newspapers.com account purely for the ability to be able to reference these articles properly. Well I guess that's one way for you and others like you to fulfil your aim of purging Misplaced Pages from pageant-related articles forever. Dude, I'm not the problem. The hundreds of throwaway accounts vandalising these articles, adding fancruft and totally disregarding policies, guidelines and the MOS that I and a few others fight on a daily basis are your problem. --- PageantUpdater (talk) 07:04, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Look at the way you regularly dismiss everyone else who cites BLP and other policy as practicing WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cherise Haugen and other pages. Read the comments I found on your talk User_talk:PageantUpdater#February_2018_2 about this behavior. Legacypac (talk) 17:53, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Physician, heal thyself - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:55, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Legacypac, you and I have differing views about how to interpret WP:BIO which is fine. What I take issue with is excessively sarcastic, indeed disrespectful nominations and (what comes across to me as) aggressively targeting a topic space with similarly framed AFDs without letting a couple of these run their course, redirecting articles unilaterally, not paying attention to previous AFD decisions in doing this etc. If you think she doesn't pass WP:BIO then you could have just said that. No need for all the overkill. I understand that I'm heavily invested in this topic space which you don't like, perhaps I do react too strongly. But I've spent over a decade trying to improve these articles in line with policies, guidelines & the MOS, and I don't appreciate the attitude you've unnecessarily brought to the AFDs. Just run a straight nom, let it come to a decision, and go from there. --- PageantUpdater (talk) 03:01, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Yep. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 14:29, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

• Legacypac, I'm with Bishonen here. Before this thread gets archived I want you to know that talking about BLP subjects in the way you did is a BLP violation, at least in my book. As for the other issue, Jack Sebastian, kindly refrain from using such terms, OK? Drmies (talk) 03:35, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Okay. He pushed my buttons, and I am admittedly a jerk sometimes. Jesus isn't done with me just yet. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• I think that Legacypac's comment is such a violation of BLP that it should be removed. This sort of thing doesn't improve Misplaced Pages's reputation much, does it. . . First Light (talk) 10:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

GAD I have boldly removed and revdel'd that sentence. It is clearly not something I'd want the subject to see. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 10:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Legacypac: Subjects of articles can get very upset just by being called non notable. Please don't refer to them in so hurtful a manner. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 11:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jack Sebastian: Thinking of changing my user name to Harsh Douche Canoe. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 11:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm here all year, folks. Be sure to tip your servers and hosts. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

And @Dlohcierekim:, I just grabbed up the username. I'll set it up as a humor/doppleganger. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 20:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:CIR, editor frequently calling constructive edits a "vandalism"

Xinjao (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

After he made this disruptive edit where he called edit a "vandalism", by using a self-reverted edit as justification, I warned him that constructive edits are not vandalism. Indeed, that's something he already knows, but he is still frequently calling such edits a "vandalism". He has been calling constructive edits a "vandalism" for a long time.

WP:COMPETENCE issues are not limited to this. In his edit, he used this source for replacing "India" with "Indus River", but source says "India", not "Indus River". Lorstaking (talk) 08:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• Dear Administrator,
  I have explained my accusation on the talk page: Talk:Cradle_of_civilization#Intentionally_rewriting_sections_to_be_more_vague_is_Vandalism._(Indus_Valley_changed_to_Indo-Gangetic_Plain)
  NINE Sources have been provided where the majority refer to the Indus River/Indus Valley. These 2 users have repeatedly changed the Indus valley/Indus river references to several other references that are NOT listed in the sources. They are engaging in Original Research and edit warning, ignoring talk page discussions and dragging other users to Administrator notice boards without engaging in any discussions.
  Please note that neither Lorstaking nor user User:EdwardElric2016 have contributed to the talk page. These two users have simply engaged in undoing constructive edits and plastering my talk page with warnings.
  The entire premise of the article is based on the following section: Cradle_of_civilization#Single_or_multiple_cradles
  The 9 sources list/discuss the Indus River or Indus Valley.
  Lorstaking removed this reference in favour of "Indo-Gangetic plan" back in October: He also removed the Indus Valley reference in favour of the general term "India".
  I stand by my comment that this is vandalism as he is removing references to sourced information and adding his personal POV to articles while ignoring any talk page discussions. This user has not engaged with me in any constructive manner about the topic. He posted a warning and then created an admin incident. This is against everything wikipedia stands for. --Xinjao (talk) 13:49, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
• Also, was not my edit. This would be another example of Lorstaking edit warring with others. Refer to Xinjao (talk) 14:00, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
• As a final point to address the actual dispute, which User:Lorstaking still refuses to address, as he seems more interested in combing my contributions from 2015. Please refer to the a simple Google search The common name which scholarly articles and the vast majoity of searches utilise is "Indus Valley". The sources in the article use this name unless referring to the entire subcontinent. Lorstaking is engaging in POV by removing the Indus Valley references in favour of "Indo-Gangetic Plain" and the more non-specific and broad "India" references. Xinjao (talk) 14:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• Sources call "India", not "Indus Valley" or "Indus River". Do you really believe that because you don't like the term "India", you are allowed to misrepresent sources? Makes no sense. This is a single edit, not edit warring and it remained there to this day until you started edit warring and misrepresenting sources today. There is clear WP:IDHT from you.

"I stand by my comment that this is vandalism", I expect there will be a speedy block for this continued incompetence, because now there should be no doubt regarding your disruption. Lorstaking (talk) 14:55, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Please take 2 mins to actually read the sources. They talk about the Indus Valley or the Indus River. This has nothing to do with what "I like". You are misrepresenting the sources. Not a single source refers to "Indo-Gangetic Plain" which is what you submitted in October. Furthermore, you have refused to engage with me on the Talk page and all you seem capable of is threatening users with warnings and bans. Xinjao (talk) 15:26, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

You are now trolling me, but don't worry no one will find any sense in your comments. Already mentioned you that in your edit you used this source which says "India" not "Indus". Another source of yours makes no mention of "Cradle of civilization". redirects to college admissions, while redirects to scam websites. Using such references won't impress me at all but only prove how deceptive you are. I expect not only a block but also a topic ban on your account for your continued failure to WP:HEAR that how badly you are misrepresenting sources, since this all comes after you had been already warned of WP:AC/DS about WP:ARBPAK. Lorstaking (talk) 15:46, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

It seems that your only intention is to ban people who disagree with you. Admin, please note that he repeatedly talk about warnings, bans, blocks, topic bans rather than engaging with people on the talk pages. These are NOT my sources. These sources are already in use in the article so please don't accuse me of this nonsense. The source refers to INDUS VALLEY and has been used on the page for years. Here is another source already in use which refers to Indus Valley . The fact of the matter is that you favoring "Indo-Gangetic Plain" reference which is not listed in any of the existing sources.
This entire discussion should take place in the talk page of the article, but since your primary focus is to get people banned, we find ourselves doing it here. Incompetence. Xinjao (talk) 15:58, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Problems are with your excessive lack of competence. The source that I had added supports the information by saying "major river valleys of the Indo-Gangetic Plain of South Asia were among the great cradles of civilization," unlike your misrepresentation of sources. According to your POV, we should be adding sources that mention "Indus Valley" but not "Cradle of civilization"(name of the article) in violation of WP:SYNTH and WP:OR and you also want us to remove what is not liked by you even if it is accurately supported by the source. This is just another incident of your small and recent editing history that you are always editing with an agenda, you can't edit neutrally. ~~

Stick to the topic if you can. This has nothing to do with my contributions in other topics. For a person who refused to engage on the article talk page and where your first course of action is to get people banned, I question your competence too. What you have described above is Original Research, which you started working on in October of last year. "Indus Valley" returns nearly 4 million results whereas "Indo-Gangetic Plain" returns 200 000 off topic results that have nothing to do with the Civilization topic. You are engaging in ORIGINAL RESEARCH by adding these references to the article. Thanks for admitting this openly Xinjao (talk) 16:49, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

This noticeboard is meant for commenting on editor, not for gaining support for your problematic article version. Is it really possible to find someone "engaging in ORIGINAL RESEARCH" even after adding "references to the article"? Thanks for the laughs but that is not what I had asked for. Lorstaking (talk) 17:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

#1. If you had taken time to contribute to the talkpage of the article, we wouldn't be discussing the article here. You did not show any intent to discuss the subject. Your first move was to post a warning and your second move was to raise a case with an Admin. Your partner User:EdwardElric2016 also refused to discuss in the talk page. He repeatedly reverted my edits while asking me to use the talk page.
2. You clearly don't understand the concept of Original Research. You are expanding a definition to fit your POV, against the norm and against popular interpretation. A simple Google search reveals this. The phrase "Indo-Gangetic plain" is almost never used in this context. Indus Valley is the widely used common phrase when discussing the emergence of civilisation in the Indian subcontinent. So yes, your edits from October are examples of Original Research Xinjao (talk) 17:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Having visited the article recently and seeing the revert warring there, there does some to be an issue with the new user:EdwardElric2016 who does not seem to be familiar with policy, including reliable sources as even stated on his talk page. I would suggest this ANI is a bit premature and that the content of this ANI be posted on the article talk page. If the majority sources refer to it as Indus Valley (as seems to be the case), we could have a case of WP:UNDUE. Otherwise I can propose an alternative to put in the article. But one thing I should point to is the Indus Valley and Indo-Gangetic plain are two different things. Indo-Gangatic plain refers to the Indus and the Ganges; whereas the sources seems to be talking about just one of them.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 21:33, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I disagree here. There is no issue with EdwardElric2016, he is a competent editor who is editing for a couple of years. Capitals00 (talk) 04:55, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Capitals00, He has so far refused to engage on the talk page but he continues to revert edits. On a different note, I also disagree with you deleting my talk page entry. I was discussing the content and the sources, but I have rewritten the entry with a different tone if that helps. I expect EdwardElric to engage this time. --Xinjao (talk) 18:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

• Xinjao, the report concerns your toxic conversations, misrepresentation of sources and false accusation of vandalism that you have made above as well, this has nothing to do with your petty content dispute. Evidence shows that you have been carrying this disruptive editing for years and here you have shown zero remorse for your actions because you believe them to be right. For such reasons, a block is really warranted, or a final warning that any similar misconduct will lead to a topic ban or long block. I am fine with either or both, but before this thread is willfully derailed anymore by you regarding the actual issues with your conduct, I would ping NeilN to have a look. Capitals00 (talk) 04:55, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Capitals00 I find your comments really unfair as you have decided to focus on that one word that might have been misapplied. I went by the book and initiated a discussion on the talk page which went completely unanswered. This users first action was to post a warning and second action was to start this admin case where he falsely accusses me of socking. I have a total of TWO edits on that article. They simply do not care for the talk page or discussing the content. I maintain that Lorstaking is engaging in Original research and ignoring talk page discussions. What is your suggestion that I do next? Xinjao (talk) 17:55, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

@Xinjao: As you probably know, reverting vandalism is exempt from WP:3RR. If you really think the edits are vandalism, then you believe that you are free to revert them without consequence or having to give a reason. If "vandalism" is your way of describing content that you don't like, then you are are attacking other editors, calling them vandals. The first option shows you don't know what vandalism is, which means your judgment regarding content matters can't be trusted in this area. The second option means you are simply attacking other editors, always unacceptable, but more so in an area covered by discretionary sanctions. I strongly suggest you carefully read our vandalism policy, especially WP:NOTVAND, as more incorrect accusations will result in a topic ban or block. --NeilN 13:08, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

I do apologise for the confusion NeilN. Vandalism might not have been the best word, but how do I address this users practices? They are not responding to talk page discussions, while mockingly reverting edits and referring to talk pages. Upon further reading, I maintain that Lorstaking is engaging in original research, while changing sourced content. What would you suggest I do next? Xinjao (talk) 17:55, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

@Xinjao: If you have clear-cut evidence the editor habitually adds original research in the India/Pakistan area despite being warned, then look into filing an WP:AE request. The cases presented need to obvious, however - not a matter of interpretation. --NeilN 01:16, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@NeilN: Xinjao believes there is original research because his opinion is more prevailing than the one added by Lorstaking, though Xinjao has so far failed to provide single source that would support his opinion. There is no original research if reliable source has been provided to support the information, this has been already said by Lorstaking above still Xinjao is WP:NOTGETTINGIT. Falsely accusing others of "mockingly reverting" him shows battleground mentality. Recent problems are not limited to this single article either, there seems to be a long term pattern of nationalistic POV editing from Xinjao. Misrepresentation of sources has been explained above, however it seems that are worse issues with using sources. On talk page, Xinjao admits that two of his sources "no longer exists", or he "do not have access", still he edit warred to add these sources. That is a blatant falsification of sources. Xinjao at least deserves a final warning logged to WP:DSLOG regarding these serious concerns, that any more of this will lead to blocks or topic bans. Capitals00 (talk) 05:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Thats a lot of baseless accusations coming from you Capitals. You have called me petty earlier too. I dont understand your hostility. I repeat once again for your benefit. Those were not my sources. Those sources were already being used in the article for years and I referred back to them. Please don't accuse me of edit warring. I have a total of 2 edits on that page and I actually engaged in the talk page unlike the person you are strongly defending. Out of 9 sources, 6 check out. 2 are inaccessible. But none of those 9 sources correlate with Lorstakings edits. You also misquoted me on the "mockingly reverted" comment. Edward reverted my edit whilst telling me to use the Talk page. I consider this "mocking" because he is clearly refusing to respond in the talk page himself.Xinjao (talk) 17:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

It is well evidenced already. Though your inability to understand simple English language is clear. He called your content dispute "petty", not to you. You have frequently claimed that "9 sources" supported your content and now you claim "6". None of your source support your sentence. If you are still not hearing then I would better expect you to be topic banned as result of this thread. There is no denial that you edit with an ethnic agenda and you don't care about editing with care. That's why you added the sources you didn't even read per your own admission. It is also irrelevant that what you "consider", as such statement only shows your inability to consider your mistakes. Lorstaking (talk) 01:58, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Dear Admins. Please note the personal attacks and please note that I have made a total of 2 edits on that page but I have lost count of the number of baseless accusations from these two. Lorstaking has spent more time trying to get me banned than he has engaged on the talk page. His dismissal of 6 valid sources (that are not even mine) in order to engage in his own original research supported by a single source is beyond astonishing. I will raise this separately. Xinjao (talk) 11:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

There is not a single personal attack. These false accusations of misconduct will get you blocked. You don't even know what is an "original research" despite having told 100s of time that if statement has been supported by reliable source then there is no original research. This is not only a case of WP:CIR but also WP:IDHT, you are deliberately attempting to mislead. "that are not even mine"? That means you hate to take responsibility for your edits now, yet you are tirelessly professing them. With this continued presentation of your incompetence, you are typically asking for an indef block until you grasp the policies correctly. Lorstaking (talk) 12:12, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

That's more than enough with your misguided hostility, insults and off topic posts. You raised this admin incident because you believe I am being disruptive with my 2 Edits and a talk page post, which you initially refused to engage. I will let the admins decide on the next course of action. Please keep the content discussion to the talk page. I see more people have countered your views. Address them please. Xinjao (talk) 13:40, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

There is no hostility but concerns about you, if you can really contribute in a collaborative environment because to this day you have used Misplaced Pages for your WP:BATTLEs often. Who would want to engage in a "talk page post", where you are misrepresenting sources, posting rants and calling every edit a vandalism with which you disagree? That's why bringing you to ANI was a better solution. Even after this all, nothing has been changed. You could've done yourself a favor if you could avoid the article but you are only making it worse for yourself by continuing your disruption. Lorstaking (talk) 14:01, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I am collaborating. I raised the talk page discussion, but thank you for explicitly admitting that you did not want to engage in those. According to you, the article was misrepresenting sources long before I entered, which is clear when you dismissed these sources back in October and added Uncommon Names instead. I had no involvement in the article when you started this process. Others are disagreeing with your edits and providing new sources, so perhaps take a look at your own conduct. --Xinjao (talk) 14:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, no one will engage in talk page that is toxic instead raise issues with the conduct of the user. You are using it as scapegoat, but if you were really so fond of talk page discussion you would've opened a talk page section first before making your disruptive edits on main article or after getting reverted per WP:BRD. I am yet to see anyone "disagreeing". 3 users are in agreement so far, there is nothing wrong with his conduct, though there are too many problems with your conduct. Capitals00 (talk) 15:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Having taken onboard Neil and Capitals feedback, I have created a new entry on the Talk page of the article, detailing the mismatch in the sources and the text being used in the article: Indo-Gangetic_Plain_vs_Indus_River_Valley Hope this helps. Xinjao (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

I disagree with the above claim that EdwardElric2016 is necessarily a competent user. He's added original research on various articles and received numerous warnings on his talk page. So I'd disagree that it's necessarily user:Xinjao that's the problem. Despite being reverted, he has carefully explained his edits and is correct to state that the majority of sources agree on calling it Indus Valley; wheras User:EdwardElric2016 ignores this. There's more but I'll add it to the article talk page when I have time.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 03:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Are you talking about "his talk page" or "various articles" or this incident? You need to provide diffs for your claims, because they seem baseless. I am yet to see any misrepresentation of sources and mislabeling of constructive edits as vandalism or any other problems from EdwardElric2016 that are found in Xinjao, and now we have you to lend blind support to apparent disruption. You are under a final warning and you should not take risks that will lead to reinstatement of topic ban on your account. I would remind here that you have already tested boundaries when you and Xinjao were trying to WP:RIGHTINGGREATWRONGS on Hindustan, about 3 months ago. Let us hope that you won't repeat mistake in the future. Capitals00 (talk) 05:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I clearly provided a link to his talk page. Likewise, Xinjaoe has clearly made his case regarding the sources, but again you not listening, which is clearly disruptive.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 23:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

It is within policy not to agree with Xinjao's misrepresentation of sources. He can provide if he has any that would be suitable for the subject. Lorstaking (talk) 01:58, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

NadirAli, let me be crystal clear that EdwardElric2016 is more competent than you and Xinjao put together. You didn't provided any "link" to his talk page. A frivolous warning from Xinjao should be ignored. I don't have to agree with falsification of sources from Xinjao, but you are telling me to agree. You can ignore the correct argument and lend support to his disruption but you will only find yourself sanctioned, given you were sitebanned and topic banned and now you are under a final warning. Capitals00 (talk) 14:21, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Me and Nadir are active on the Talk page and trying to address your perceived concerns about sources, which is more than I can say for Edward who still hasn't made an appearance after guiding me there. Please explain in the talk page how I am falsifying sources? More sources have been added by another user fyi. Xinjao (talk) 14:57, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I have already explained that on talk page, unlike you I am not fond of repeating over and over. Editors are not obliged to reply to discussion and at least not when you are only engaging in disruption and making a WP:POINT. I have already looked into discussion and everything is still same. Capitals00 (talk) 15:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

By your own admission, Xinjao on the talk page, you are "combining sources". There is a word for this on Misplaced Pages: SYNTH. It is not allowed. - Nick Thorne 15:09, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

That's clearly not what I wrote Nick, I should have been more clear with that sentence but please don't take my discussion out of context. Its really not fair. I was referring to Lorstakings practice. He is happy using the original sources as the foundation of the article, but then he mixes the sources to change one specific naming convention (Indus valley to Indo-Gangetic plain). I have not added anything thats not clearly mentioned in the original sources. Please review my 2 edits and let me know where I have mixed sources if that's what you have gathered from my post. --Xinjao (talk) 16:37, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

"Clearly not what I wrote"?? You exactly wrote "Please familiarise yourself with Misplaced Pages:Combining sources", asking other editor to engage in WP:SYNTH, since this is all you have been doing until now. Lorstaking's sources meet WP:V, while yours fail it. You have been engaging in this nationalistic POV editing in more than one article, it would be an overkill to take your words without doing research since every time you are caught WP:GAMING. Capitals00 (talk) 16:50, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Why on earth would I ask someone to break the rules? And how on earth is the usage of "Indus valley" Nationalistic POV? Its very interesting to me that you consider this nationalistic. Does that mean all the sources I posted are nationalistic? Indus valley is not a nation. Its just a phrase that clearly upsets you. You have been pushing to get me banned from your very first post. Xinjao (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

That's why people are concerned. That why you are asking others to break rules. It is your ethnic agenda to use "Indian subcontinent" by removing "India", despite not supported by your source, because you believe that it takes away the credit for Pakistan, that didn't even existed in those days. That's how its nationalistic. Clearly "Indus Valley" is not a nation, yet you treat it as a nation as per your edits because it gives you a feeling that you are out to lend credit to Pakistan, which again didn't even existed before 1947. Lorstaking (talk) 03:23, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

For the two articles, I removed the "India" reference in favour of "Indus Valley" because that's what nearly every single source quotes. Your misrepresentation of my edits just shows how biased you are on this topic. Usage of Indus valley does not show ethnic of nationalist bias. You seem to have a big problem quoting sources as they appear. --Xinjao (talk) 13:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Yet none of the sources support your ethnic agenda driven edits. In place of being this deceptive, just cite the sources but given your incompetence you really can't do that. You are only misrepresenting sources to favor your ethnic POV pushing. Lorstaking (talk) 13:13, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

This post Copied from my talk page - Nick Thorne 01:07, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi Nick. I saw your comment on the admin page and I really feel that you took my comment out of context. Please note that I have a total of two edits on the page. But to the topic of source mixing, I am trying to understand your views. Where did I mix sources?

On the contrary, the person I am arguing with is happy with the original sources for the foundation of the article, but replacing one specific naming convention? Isnt this the obvious example of source mixing? Really like to hear your thoughts. --Xinjao (talk) 16:48, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

That's the problem with Xinjao. He can't understand English language and/or write it properly. Let alone drawing conclusions from these sources, it is just out of his scope at this moment, but unfortunately he is tirelessly pursuing it. He believes that he is putting himself in a better light by throwing empty accusations against others when he is undoubtedly the one with clear competence issues. Lorstaking (talk) 03:23, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

The question wasn't addressed to you and once again I would like Admins to note the petty insults and this users desperate attempts at halting discussion into his edits. Xinjao (talk) 11:26, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

OK Xinjao, firstly, no one gets to decide who can or cannot comment here, anyone is free to make whatever comments they wish and in response to whatever else is stated or asked by whomsoever to whomsoever. Secondly, I'm afraid I have to agree with Lorstaking in this instance. These comments do indeed seem to indicate that you lack the ability to properly understand English, both that written by others and apparently and more worryingly that which you write yourself. Competence is required and so far your contributions do seem to indicate that this might be your Achilles heel. I feel that this is probably the root of the problem. - Nick Thorne 11:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

My question was directed to you, on your Talk Page Nick. I don't recall giving you permission to post it here under my signature, hence I was clearly not looking for Lorstakings opinion on this. I understand very clearly what he is writing, but disagreeing with his opinion does not mean that I don't "understand English". This is clearly a personal attack Xinjao (talk) 12:53, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Xinjao, you still don't even understand what is WP:SYNTH, and you are still treating these policies like they are a joke. This comes after you asked me to engage in WP:SYNTH earlier. Since the "question" belonged to ANI and you spuriously attempted to started the discussion on user's talk page, I am allowed to comment on your question. I am allowed to comment on your question even on Nick Thorne's talk page. Provide diffs if you want admins to act about anything. As of now, you are only signifying your incompetence. Lorstaking (talk) 13:13, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

My entire argument is that you are combining sources, which is against the rules. I did not "ask you to engage" in this practice Lorstaking. It's ridiculous that I have to explain this to you. You can comment all you want but since my question was off topic, I posted it on his Talk Page for a reason. I don't appreciate him using my signature in this fashion. Xinjao (talk) 13:26, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

You need to provide diffs. Empty accusations are only increasing your chances for getting a block or topic ban. I am not even understanding what you are trying to claim here. But given your incompetence and the fact that you don't understand English, it is just too normal. Why you are being hostile to everyone who is not in favor of your trivial wishes? Lorstaking (talk) 14:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Xinjao, you obviously do not understand the conditions of use under which we work here. We give a permanent, irrevocable licence to everything we write on Misplaced Pages, including what we write on talk pages. We do not own that material. I copied your post from my talk page, where it did not belong since it was in response to something on this page, and I did it in a completely open way. I stated what I was doing, where it came from and who wrote it.

No possible deception there. Just with your comments on this page you have dug yourself into a hole. Stop digging. - Nick Thorne 08:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

This topic is getting out of hand. Lorstaking made no attempt to resolve any issues on my talk page or the article talk pages and self-admittedly he saw no need to contribute to the article talk pages. I am always open to suggestions and discussion, but these users are now resorting to repeatedly bashing my English as an argument, so I do not see any merit in continuing this. Xinjao (talk) 13:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I attempted to resolve issues on your "talk page" but you won't stop calling every edit a vandalism that you don't like and signify your incompetence. You are still problematic regardless of this thread. People are correct if they are pointing out problems with your poor understanding of English per WP:CIR. Lorstaking (talk) 14:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Lorstaking, I can no longer assume good faith in your edits or your arguments. I have checked your history and it seems you are pushing your nationalist POV on multiple articles. You derail my discussions with baseless accusations for simply using the term "Indus Valley" but your edits are clearly driven by nationalism:

• Twice Removed sourced "Cradle of Civilisation" reference from Pakistan article
• Changed another sourced reference by removing "Western Pakistan" in favour of "the subcontinent"
• Removed Indus valley references from History of Pakistan article.
• Removed another reference to Pakistan from the Indus Valley article.
• Changed length of Indus river to give India an extra 2% and removed 2% from Pakistan
  

It's very clear to me that you carry a nationalist agenda Xinjao (talk) 19:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Yet you are still showing willingness to continue revealing how incompetent how are and care only about your ethnic POV agenda driven edits.

• On Pakistan, a long term disruptive sock sharing your POV was misrepresenting sources despite none of the sources called Pakistan country a cradle of civilization. I was reverting the nonsense.
• I made this edit because source didn't supported the earlier and my edit is meaningful, given there are many Neolithic sites are older than Mehrgarh.
• Where did I removed "Indus valley references from History of Pakistan article" in this edit?? I was reverting problematic edits made by an ethnic POV pusher like you who has been topic banned for such edits.
• Where did I removed "Indus valley reference to Pakistan" on this diff?? I had in fact added a source.
• I changed "an extra 2% and removed 2%" per this edit? But evidence shows that I was reverting a new edit that modified the made up stats added by you. Your addition of these false stats removed was removed per discussion on talk.

You can't even speak English. I am astonished that you thought of analyzing my edits after siding with disruptive topic banned socks and POV pushers and you don't even know what is adding or removing references. For you, this nothing but a joke. Lorstaking (talk) 00:23, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

More emotionally driven petty personal attacks because I dared to analyse your edits. Your edits tell me everything I need to know about your nationalist agenda Lorstaking. You are blatantly targeting Pakistani articles because in your mind you are trying to counterbalance, as clearly expressed in one of your earlier ramblings about "lending credit to Pakistan" This shows your mentality that you treat Misplaced Pages like a battleground. And now you are proposing an Indef block because I am highlighting your inane edits. Xinjao (talk) 01:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Fabricating information is not enough. You have to provide actual evidence for backing up your empty accusations and you are still failing to show even one diff. Given your inability to understand English, you should not be editing English Misplaced Pages at all, let alone engaging in WP:BATTLE over your desparate ethnic and nationalist POV pushing. Lorstaking (talk) 01:48, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Indef block proposal

I was right to think that someone with so many WP:CIR issues can't actually reform overnight. Xinjao has shown his inability to understand English and has been engaging in ethnic POV pushing, WP:BATTLE, misrepresentation of sources, calling constructive edits a vandalism. There are more issues and none of them have been resolved. Throughout this thread he has only signified his incompetence and made false allegations towards others. I dont see why we should continue wasting time on this incompetent editor.

After throwing empty accusations, Xinjao has now resorted to fabricate information about me in place of admitting his mistakes, and this above response was the last straw where he called this edit a removal of "Indus valley references". Even worse that Xinjao went ahead to promote these false allegations and fabrication on the article talk page. This is nothing but clear harassment and also an ideal example of WP:BATTLE. For these many reasons I am proposing an indef block. We can also decide if we should topic ban or decide it upon his return.

• Support indef block as proposer. Lorstaking (talk) 00:23, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support. This editor has been digging a hole both in their editing history and in this thread, and it is time to leave them in the hole. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:28, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose as the accused. I have presented enough diffs to show the User:Lorstaking is committed to a nationalist agenda as seen by his edits with the common theme of removing information; has no patience to discuss his editing; admittedly refused to engage in talk pages; failed to discuss grievances prior to raising this request; obsessed with banning from day one and has continuously insulted my English. --Xinjao (talk) 03:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

By deliberately misrepresenting my edits you have only signified your incompetence and revealed your desparation for your ethnic and nationalist POV pushing. Same with these other false accusations that you continue to throw without evidence. Keep giving us more reasons to get rid of you. Lorstaking (talk) 05:22, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Support. I'm going to have to agree with this. This conversation spanning multiple threads hasn't been going anywhere and has become toxic. Given this editors recent actions as was previously discussed including leaving a superfluous threat on my (talkpage), I no longer have the confidence of this user's ability to maintaining a neutral POV. It is not the job of the editor to promote a political POV, but only to report what is the scholarly consensus. EdwardElric2016 (talk) 05:00, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Throwing around groundless accusations of vandalism is completely unacceptable and sanctionable in itself, but then Xinjao has been doing it recklessly for years now. I'm astonished as to how he managed to evade sanctions in the past. That, coupled with the issues of nationalist editing and WP:CIR are reason enough to indefinitely block this disruption only account. —MBL 07:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Neutral I think a TBAN from any WP:ARBIPA topics (India or Pakistan) is necessary if this doesn't pass, but I'm not yet convinced that an indef block is needed. The problem of referring to content disagreements as "vandalism" should be solvable. Beyond that, I see POV-pushing regarding terminology to refer to India more than anything else. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:20, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

He is not interested in anything else other than this particular subject and considers every comment to be a personal attack where someone is telling him about his mistakes. By telling him that he should prove that he can contribute elsewhere we will only increase workload for others, given his lack of understanding of English language and use of Misplaced Pages for battles. That's why I found indef block to be a better solution for this problem. He can be topic banned upon his return, but right now he needs some time off-Misplaced Pages and carefully read the policies before editing again. Lorstaking (talk) 07:40, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Support CIR, simply checking out the editor's contributions to this thread it is apparent that he is misinterpreting practically everything. The other editor is not doing what Xinjao claims. Add to that, he appears to be editing to push a nationalistic agenda which makes me wonder if he is really NOTHERE. Indef him and add the condition that if he gets unblocked it is subject to a topic ban on subcontinent material, broadly construed. - Nick Thorne 09:07, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support indef per WP:CIR and WP:NOTHERE. Only here for nationalistic POV pushing and creating toxic conversations. Capitals00 (talk) 14:13, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose, and recommend discarding entire thread per power~enwiki. Indef blocks aren't a joke. There's a proper process for escalation which is adequately provided under WP:ARBIPA, and includes other solutions. And frankly I haven't seen evidence of any of those solutions being tried, let alone lesser sanctions like TBANS. But that is the worst case scenario. This appears to be more a dispute resolution issue which should have been taken to DRN or another neutral noticeboard first. But it wasn't, so how do we come to that conclusion? Also, it is rather ironic that the users accusing this user of "nationalist" editing are more or less guilty of the same themselves; or to be slightly moderate, have less than stellar records of the same issues. This really isn't the way to resolve content disputes. One only needs to read through the uncivil personal attacks above thrown left and right, and I'm surprised an admin hasn't jumped in already to close out this ugly WP:SOUP. This entire thread and "indef block proposal", IMO, is a farce. Regardless, let's leave the judgement with those 'competent' to make the final call. Mar4d (talk) 14:41, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

"per power~enwiki"? You are misrepresenting his position because he supported the topic ban. You need to better stop justifying disruption by making empty accusations because you have been doing this too often for defending disruptive POV pushers of this area. We don't need those who lack competence, and your opinion lacks rationale which is evidenced by your massive block log for disruption in this very same subject and years of deceptive sock puppetry. Lorstaking (talk) 15:42, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

The above comment exactly proves my point regarding WP:BATTLE and problematic, WP:TENDENTIOUS editors like you. Mar4d (talk) 17:14, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Your comment proves that only a disruptive long term sock abuser like you would welcome disruption of incompetent editors with ethnic POV agenda, due to your own lack of WP:COMPETENCE as further evidenced by your block log as well. Lorstaking (talk) 17:37, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Support. Since not even a lengthy ANI report could bring any change in his disruptive behavior, there is zero doubt that Xinjao is a net negative with these gross WP:CIR issues including his continued battleground mentality. D4iNa4 (talk) 16:40, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

On Using a Personal Sandbox for Learning

I am a teacher at a high school in the United States. As part of a unit on the epistemology of Misplaced Pages, I teach students to edit Misplaced Pages. I teach students formatting (e.g. internal linking, citation, infobox, et al) as well as rules of use (verifiability, neutral point of view, etc.). Given that they are young students who make mistakes, I ask they keep all of their work in their personal sandbox until I can check it and teach them how to correct it. At the end of this project, some students publish their articles or update existing Misplaced Pages entries; some do not. Recently, one of my student's (ndunkel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) sandboxes was deleted by administrator MER-C (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I appealed this deletion on said administrator's talk page.

While I have not seen the sandbox in question--it was deleted before I could offer the student constructive feedback--I contend that usage of the first person and content construed as advertising does not constitute Misuse of the sandbox]. Misplaced Pages clearly notes that sandboxes are not held to the same standard and that certain rules do not apply to sandboxes. I have therefore used them as a learning environment, where beginners can safely learn what is and is not appropriate. I ask for clarification on using sandboxes as a teaching tool (for me) and a learning environment (for my students). If appropriate, I ask for the restoration of said student's sandbox. JediLibrarian (talk) 15:42, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

The deleted sandbox was not only a blatant advert, it was a blatant cut-and-paste copyright violation from another website (this website, to be specific). As such, for legal reasons there are no circumstances under which it will be restored; Misplaced Pages takes copyright violation very seriously. If someone has told you that copyright rules don't apply in the sandbox, you've been misinformed; this is a legal requirement not a Misplaced Pages policy, and as such we couldn't relax it even if we wanted to. If you're going to quote Misplaced Pages:Misuse of the sandbox, please do us the courtesy of reading it first, as in your own personal sandbox, you still shouldn't post nonfree copyrighted material or personal attacks/harassment, or writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Misplaced Pages's goals. The addition of promotional material is not acceptable either. is explicitly stated there. ‑ Iridescent 15:55, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Your message clearly explains why the content was deleted, and I can take this back to the student as a teachable moment. Had a comment such as this been left on my student's talk page, we could have obviated this entire discussion. Your criticism of my own sandbox, however, does not meet this same standard. You cite a blanket violation, and I would welcome a message on my talk page clarifying what content you feel neglects to meet the standards you refer to. In addition, I would welcome a suggestion on how to use Misplaced Pages as a teaching tool. Misplaced Pages is well aware of systemic biases. Addressing these means empowering minority voices to grow into confident Misplaced Pages contributors. If a sandbox is not an appropriate place to experiment and learn, what is? JediLibrarian (talk) 16:58, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

To clarify, a Sandbox is a place to practice editing, either to build a draft for later publication in the main encyclopedia, or just to practice formatting , and, whilst that and a "place to experiment and learn" are not mutually exclusive, neither are they synonymous. The former certainly should come before the latter. >SerialNumber54129 17:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

There is also a difference between experimenting and copyright infringement, per WP:COPYVIO: copyright violations not only harm Misplaced Pages's redistributability, but also create legal issues. The content cannot be restored. What relevance does bias have to this discussion? Nobody takes into account the age, gender, race, or identity of the individual when performing routine maintenance tasks. If you know the individual then these may be factors that influence you, – well at least age might, you're obviously not going to lambast a 3rd grader the same way you might a college student for posting blatant copyvios on Misplaced Pages – but they have no bearing on the actions we have to take – that is delete and warn. On the flipside, I'm glad you're having your students use the sandbox, – you can also use draftspace – rather than the mainspace. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Also, to clarify a misunderstanding, Iridescent didn't make a comment on your sandbox JediLibrarian, they were posting a quote from an information page. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:30, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

There are three core aspects to being a productive contributor: (1) proficiency in written English, (2) appreciation of what an encyclopedia is, what purpose they serve, the type of information one might find within, the information you won't find in an encyclopedia and why people use them; and (3) information literacy and critical thinking (the relevant Misplaced Pages guideline is Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources, but you shouldn't need to refer to it.) The best use of editing Misplaced Pages as a teaching tool would be teaching information literacy and critical thinking -- I view the first and second points above as prerequisites. As you're a librarian, I suggest paying particular attention to sourcing -- for example you can compare some good articles to some crap ones or something like 1Lib1Ref. I strongly recommend against getting your students to write articles; the learning curve is too steep. They need to consolidate the basics first.

For what it's worth, from experience >99.9% of users who post blatant adverts (of which I have deleted about 10,000) are actually marketers and/or spammers who have zero interest in contributing to the encyclopedia. Spam is spam, no matter the page name. MER-C 17:44, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I understand the fight against "blatant adverts"; I followed Virgil Griffith's work on Wikiscanner with great interest. I'm sure "salacious edits", as Wired called them, have only increased in the decade since. Your point about the "learning curve" begs the question: Why not fix the learning curve? Over the years, I have taught about 500 students to edit Misplaced Pages. Those 500 students have created some beautiful entries, particularly in other languages, as those 500 students represent about 60 different cultures. Have there been hiccups? Sure--this represents a fine example. But can I think of a better way to promote Authentic learning while making the world a better place? Nope. I appreciate the discussion here. In the future, I'll have students use draftspaces, as suggested by Mr rnddude. And yes, I'll ask them to submit drafts for review and/or delete those draftspaces when finished.JediLibrarian (talk) 14:05, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Why not fix the learning curve - Who says it's broken? You're comparing arithmetic to algebra when comparing editing with writing. One takes more effort than the other. I'll put it this way, consider the following to be four basic levels of writing an article: (1) writing any article, (2) writing an article that will be retained, (3) writing a good article, and (4) writing a feature article. It takes maybe five minutes to achieve level 1 – pick a topic, write a few sentences, and hit save. Hours to days to achieve level 2 – pick a topic, write several complete paragraphs, use sources to back up your writing and then hit save. Weeks to achieve level 3 – pick a topic, write a complete and comprehensive article with good sources and submit it for review. Months to years to achieve level 4 – your students aren't going to encounter this, just leave it at that. From one standpoint, it could not be easier to start writing an article than it currently is. Type in the name of the article you want to write, click the link to edit, and start writing. From another, writing an article takes time, research, and ability. Not everybody is capable of, or interested in, this. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:39, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

• To facilitate JediLibrarian's discussion with his/her student, why not email a copy? EEng 19:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• Because—as already pointed out—it was a verbatim cut-and-paste of this website. ‑ Iridescent 19:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• In other cases, though, I think there would be nothing wrong with e-mailing the wikitext. If there was formatting or other changes to the content, I think it's reasonable to e-mail it. I'm sure one of our resident specialists will point out that it's a copyvio to e-mail a copyvio. I'd disagree on a somewhat technical point: It may be a copyright infringement, but it's not a "copyvio" in the sense of Misplaced Pages policy, which governs on-wiki conduct. I would have no qualms about, for instance, photocopying an article out of a magazine and mailing it to somebody on their request, as most libraries will do. While I understand there's a bit of a difference when we're talking about using the admin tools to access deleted content, the same "copyvio" rules don't apply to this. I'm actually not aware of a policy that's quite on point here, though I think it stands to reason that there should be good cause to share deleted content via e-mail when WP:REFUND wouldn't permit its restoration, and privacy-violating material should never be provided this way (and, in fact, should be oversighted even after being deleted). Maybe there's cause for some policy provision here? —/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 20:43, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• While teaching PLEASE make it a requirement for the students to blank their sandbox at the end (or when you check them you blank them. We already have a massive backlog Category:Stale userspace drafts and it takes other editors and Admins significant effort to clean up the abandoned pages. Legacypac (talk) 20:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

  Why do they need to be cleaned up? Is the internet full? Fish+Karate 11:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Disruptive and uncivil behavior by User:Rovingrobert

Hello. Rovingrobert is exhibiting a very poor (disruptive and uncivil) behavior:

1. He changed IPA transcriptions of foreign surnames from how the names are pronounced in English to how he thinks they're supposed to be pronounced: , , . In the case of the second link, the response to my edit summary was I won't stop doing shit, bitch (EDIT: Here's another one: ).

2. He removed the pronunciation of Bjorn Fratangelo, saying that not everything needs a fucking IPA transcription. This surname does, its pronunciation isn't terribly straightforward.

3. He was edit-warring with me over the inclusion of in transcriptions of Spanish (see and as well as and ). In some cases, I just reverted him without being reverted again - see , , , and . The problem is that transcriptions enclosed within the IPA-es template link to Help:IPA/Spanish which doesn't really mention and uses in a very different manner. It took me some time to convince this guy to raise the issue on Help talk:IPA/Spanish. You can see for yourself how he worded what he wrote.

4. In his thread on Help talk:IPA/Spanish, he misrepresented the issue with the user LoveVanPersie, whose lack of WP:COMPETENCE (I can't call it differently) is wasting the time of other editors, myself included - see Misplaced Pages talk:Reference desk#LoveVanPersie's transcriptions. It's quite strange how people who bring this up (he's the second person to do that within the last two days, which is also quite strange) when they talk to me or about me always forget how I spent hours and hours helping LVP with IPA. Mr KEBAB (talk) 13:00, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

His response to this edit was fuk ya.

Do you think it'd be worth checking if RR is a sockpuppet of G-Zay? The reason I think this might be him is that for the last 6 months I've been successfully spotting G-Zay's sockpuppets and getting them banned via SI. He got aggressive with me only recently, calling me a harrasser and a loser for calling him out. It's suspicious how the insults, edit-warring and the misrepresentation of the issue with LVP happened a day before Rovingrobert started doing the same to me. Before that, he was perfectly nice to me: User_talk:Mr_KEBAB/Archive_4#Greetings, User_talk:Mr_KEBAB/Archive_5, User_talk:Mr_KEBAB/Archive_13#Hello. Mr KEBAB (talk) 10:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:SPI is that-way. I don't know IPA so I can't determine what's going on with those edits. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:25, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

User:Rickyc123 gaming the system - part 2

User:Rickyc123 was previously brought to ANI for his gaming the system behavior. Rundown on Rickyc123's past behavior:

1) Rickyc123 copied drafts (Polo Reyes, Devin Clark (fighter), Danielle Taylor (fighter), Darren Till) that were awaiting review in the WP:AfC process to create his own articles in June 2017. He was warned about it and apologized and claimed he wouldn't do it again (1 2), and was informed by User:PRehse that: "Its best practice that if a draft is waiting for review it should be left (better to alter the draft than create another article) but failing that you can still move it into article space with the move tab (top right). That way attribution is maintained and toes don't get stepped on. Copy paste should be avoided at all costs. Just saying."

2) Rickyc123 copied yet more drafts (Age Before Beauty (TV series), Yellowstone (U.S. TV series), Kerman Lejarraga, Caleb Konley) after the above incident, despite demonstrating that he now does know how to move drafts. Rickyc123 was also copy-and-pasting articles to his own redirect pages (with no content) with a slightly different name, and redirecting those original article to his own, instead of just moving the original article to the "improved" name (e.g. his article 2017 Java earthquake was copied-and-pasted from 2017 West Java earthquake, and redirected the latter to his own).

3) One of these copied drafts was my own. I then warned Rickyc123 in December 2017 about this inappropriate copy-and-pasting behavior. He removed my message indicating he read it. All the above articles have since been histmerged.

4) In January 2017, he yet again copies-and-pastes from The Ultimate Fighter 27 to create his own article The Ultimate Fighter: Undefeated (which was a redirect with no content), and turned the former into a redirect to his own copied article instead. Note that those two articles have seen been histmerged.

There were apparently other issues/incidences as well (such as mass creating inappropriate redirects), as brought up by User:CASSIOPEIA in the previous ANI, which resulted in User:Swarm giving him a formal warning.

I believe Rickyc123 is still gaming the system, albeit going about it in a smarter way now. He recently created an article that I believe is based heavily on a draft currently undergoing the WP:AfC process, this time at least making an effort to paraphrase and add a bit of new content. The similarities between the first revision of Kalindra Faria and the last revision of Draft:Kalindra Faria are unmistakable in my opinion, especially if you compare the infobox parameters and the mixed martial arts record table in the source editor page.

These two sentences for comparison:

• From Draft:Kalindra Faria: "In 2017, Faria was set to make her UFC at UFC 216: Ferguson vs. Lee against Andrea Lee, however as Lee had previously failed a drugs test, USADA required her to be in the testing pool six months before competing, causing her to pull out."

• From Kalindra Faria: "In 2017, Faria was set to make her UFC at UFC 216 against Andrea Lee, however as Lee had previously failed a drugs test, USADA required her to be in the testing pool six months before competing, causing her to pull out."

The almost exact same wording, the exact same sentence structure, the same grammatical error ("drugs test" instead of "drug test"), the same missing word ("made her UFC at UFC 2016" is missing the word debut), and both linked to the same incorrect Andrea Lee instead of Andrea Lee (fighter). Other suspiciously similar word choices like “fellow promotional newcomer” in the following sentence (the cited source does not use that term so it wasn’t copied from the source). Yet Rickyc123 claims to have never seen the draft prior to creating the article. You can read our conversation at his talk page, where he tries to explain the similarities. I do not buy his explanation. From the almost exact sentences above and the similarities between the infoboxes (exact same parameters including the birth_date parameter that uses “df” and the reach_in parameter that were used in the draft but Rickyc123 has not used in his previous UFC fighters articles) and the mixed martial arts record table, it seems clear to me that Rickyc123 saw the draft that is undergoing the WP:AfC process and rather than waiting for it to be approved/rejected at AfC, created his own article based heavily on the draft instead so as to game the system and get more articles credited to him with minimal effort on his part, while also wasting the efforts of other editors. Bennv3771 (talk) 04:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree the situation at Kalindra Faria is unambiguously a violation by Rickyc123. In addition to whatever block is deemed necessary, I think an indefinite prohibition on creating articles when a draft of the same name exists is needed. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Updated, the simpler prohibition is better. Even if there is a standard-offer compatible block here, I think the prohibition on article creations should be separate. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I've left Rickyc123 unblocked so they can participate here but left a clear warning that any more article creations before this thread is resolved will result in a block. --NeilN 04:50, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

He should just be moving the drafts. We have enough work to do at AfC without someone duplicating the pages into mainspace while we evaluate them. The mainspace versions should be G12 Copyvio deleted and the Drafts replace them. Legacypac (talk) 05:09, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• I would also like to request for User:Rickyc123 to look through his past articles and come clean if he can remember any others that were copied from other editors' drafts so that the appropriate histmerges can be done. I previously requested he do this in December 2017 after realizing he had copied one of my drafts. He removed my message and did not reply, which led to me investigating some of his past articles and requesting histmerges for the copied drafts I found listed above (except for the Darren Till draft which had already been deleted, admin Anthony Appleyard found that one at the previous ANI). However, if there were drafts that were under slightly different names and/or have since been deleted under WP:G13 (this behavior has been going on for over 6 months), then there is a chance we missed them and it'll be difficult to find these drafts without Rickyc123's help. Obviously he cannot be forced to help, but it would be a nice gesture. Bennv3771 (talk) 10:47, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

From the history presented here, there is no way to assume good faith about their actions. The behavior is not simply 'gaming the system' it is flat out plagiarism and copyright violation. We indef editors who are serial copyright violators. Just because the violation is internal and no one is going to sue Misplaced Pages is not a reason to be be soft on this type of behavior. I would go further and say that repeatedly creating redirects and copying others' work to falsely show 'creation' of the article exhibits a level of deception and bad faith that should not be accepted in this project no matter the length of the editor's service or their other contributions. Indef and move on. The project does not need this type of "contribution". Jbh 15:24, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

One thing before we get started is all the things in the previous ANI, I admit to and I know I have done wrong. Second is that I'm not so stupid as to copy a draft days after I've just got warned from doing it, if you compare the differences between mine and the drafts they're completely different. Including the infobox and MMA record section. (I actually believe there's is better) and if I had copied I'd have used the more superior version. As for the drug and drugs test thing. While it may officially be drug test, everyone says drugs test. Also if you look at any MMA article it tells you about opponents using that format. All promotional newcomers are referred to as promotional newcomers. And your whole basis of you saying I copied is based off 10 words in a 100+ word article that took me about 3 hours to make(what other evidence other than that sentence is there of me copying) and I will admit to the fact that I never manually enter the format on Misplaced Pages, I always copy and paste infoboxes and MMA record tables from other articles. And change it so it applies to that MMA fighter. If I was copying and pasting don't you think I would have checked it for mistakes before I put it on, when you look at revisions they are completely different I've got things they have and they've got things I haven't. As for the asking about drafts and stuff:

• There aren't any drafts left that haven't been sorted.

The ones I know but don't know if they've been sorted are:

• Darren Till
• Marco Polo Reyes
• Devin Clark
• Danielle Taylor (fighter)

As for the copy and paste thing where I changed the Article to an alternative name, I did that with West Java Earthquake, The Ultimate Fighter 27 and 2017 Washington train derailment.

As for articles which have been changed into articles after I've made them redirects, there is :

• Dan Ige
• Saparbek Safarov
• Frank Camacho
• Tim Williams (fighter)

All darts and Australian Open articles it says I made are also redirects I made that people changed into articles.

I've made Calvin Kattar, David Ramos(I know he hasn't had his 3 fights yet but he will have by UFC 224) and Deiveson Figueiredo articles so can someone let me know on my talk page when I'm allowed to put on articles again so I can drop them.

I'm actually going on holiday to Pakistan for a family wedding (The flight is 12 tomorrow UK time) and I don't know what the WiFi is like down there (cos I'm staying with family in a small village and not a hotel). So if I don't respond to anything said it's not because I'm not cooperating. I'm due back Monday 27th. So I might not respond before then.

One last thing, I've said it before but I'd like to reiterate all of the things said in the last ANI are true and I am guilty of a lot of things but I have done no wrongdoing in this Kalindra Faria article, I didn't copy her draft or use her draft, If people actually look at the comparisons between the article when I made it and the draft. They are in no.way similar. I'm not so unintelligent that if I were to reoffend I'd do it only days after the ANI had closed and I had got my warning. I don't believe people are actually looking at the revisions and comparing them, they are reading what is said in here and User:Bennv3771 had nothing to say when I asked him apart from those 10 words what was there to indicate I had copied and as soon as I found out this ANI had started my heart dropped cos i know noone is gonna side with me because of my history. I'm not gonna lie as a 23 year old man I was genuinely upset and angered when this time when I actually did nothing wrong. I was accused of copying. Is this what it's gonna be like every time I make a new article. What upset me more is the article took me 3 hours to make, I was only half paying attention to the Newcastle Vs Manchester United that was on while I was making it and after all that time of me making it. But rather than getting a thanks( which I don't really expect or want for that matter, that is not why I edit) I get it thrown back in my face saying that I've copied and pasted even though the two articles are vastly different. And I'm not even even going to say that I copied it but improved it a little because that would be a lie. They have got loads of good information that I haven't included. And of I were to copy I'd use all of their best bits and add in my own stuff. But when you actually look at the articles rather than reading this ANI, you will see that we use completely different sources, he's got more info in his infobox, we've got different extra notes in the MMA box, he's got a load of redlinks and my revision didn't have any. Plus the overall actual content is different. Just to reiterate after this me not saying anything on this ANI is not me being uncooperative, I am just going to a family wedding in Pakistan and I don't know how the internet is there.Rickyc123 (talk) 21:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)Rickyc123

@Rickyc123: "User:Bennv3771 had nothing to say when I asked him apart from those 10 words what was there to indicate I had copied" I did not have "nothing to say". I just did not buy your explanation and figured that if that was all your had to offer than there was no point continuing the heated conversation on your talk page. Also, I brought up more than just "those 10 words" (it's actually 40 words by the way). Bennv3771 (talk) 01:33, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for looking through your past articles as I requested. Bennv3771 (talk) 01:45, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• I compared the wiki text of the version where the bulk of material was added to the draft as it existed at that time . The infobox and table are identical except for cosmetic changes on three lines. No differing fields between the two. I am confident the infobox and table were plagerized and the claim it was not is at best a deceptive untruth.

  There is change in the prose. However its independence from the original has been questioned above. Regardless, even if the prose were 100% original Rickyc123 knowingly appropriated a huge amount of another editor's work.

  Misplaced Pages makes it very easy to build upon the work of others, in fact that is what Misplaced Pages is all about. Willfully claiming another editor's work as one's own is inexcusable. Doing so repeatedly and after being warned about it is, in my opinion, one of the few unforgivable acts an editor of Misplaced Pages can commit. Jbh 02:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• I would like to add that there have been other behavioral issues as well. Such as creating inappropriate redirects, then recreating them immediately after they were deleted. Also, removing, without any explanation, my comment attributing the article to its original author on the talk pages of two articles (1 2) he copied (this was when I thought they couldn't be histmerged due to parallel page histories, they've been histmerged now though). Bennv3771 (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposal - Article creation ban

I'm not convinced Rickyc123 needs to be blocked beyond the voluntary 2 week break he appears to be on. I do feel that an indefinite prohibition on article creation is necessary. Even if I take Ricky's statement at face value, the WP:CIR inability to find drafts for articles is problematic.

• Support as proposer. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Sanctions should probably wait for Rickyc123's return. Also, from the lack of input here, I doubt anything will come of this and it will be archived long before that.

  That said, I do not know that I feel confident this would address the behavior at issue. My concern is that, from the evidence given, this looks to be an editor who has repeatedly taken the work of other editors and effectively claimed it as their own. Not only is this a violation of core Misplaced Pages policy and repugnant to academic/social norms, it activly causes harm to the fabric of the project. Others put a lot of work into their drafts, from identifying the subject to the drudgery of compiling and writing the tables in this, most recent, article. To have someone remove all credit for that work in the article history by copy/paste recreations must be extremely disheartening and, I surmise, leave a very poor taste about their future Misplaced Pages participation.

  I am disinclined to believe assurances by this editor that they will not do it again because I do not find their claim, after previously being warned about other articles, of not copying the table believable. Maybe I am missing something and there is some way that two, effectivly identical, tables - one springing fully formed as if from the head of Zeus - can be innocently created. Until that is shown to me though... Jbh 16:44, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Agree with Jbhunley. They were already warned in June 2017, December 2017 and January 2018, yet here we are again. We are way beyond assuming good faith. Bennv3771 (talk) 19:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Support - I am the one who initial report Rickyc123 on this ANI . I would go further no only he should NOT have the right to create any article he should NOT have the right to redirect as well. He has recreated hundred of NOT notable subjects creation and immediately redirect to a general related page. His doing so is to wait until other editor create the article when the subject is notable and his name would appear in the article name as the creator. See here Redirects to List of current UFC fighters. I have gone thought all Rckyc123's contribution, talkpage, creation, other editors talk page who communicated with him which took me a few days with hours spent and with the evidence that he has been told by other editors of what he has done and been warned a few time and still doing the same actions. It is self evident he is WP:NOTHERE to contribute but to take advantage of other editors work and make it his own and even User:Bennv3771 asked him to take down those article which he stoled from him from his user page, he has still not doing so. His actions deter and discourage other editors to create notable articles and shy from contribution to Misplaced Pages for Rickyc123 just want to decorate his user page with created article whether his own or not. I would go further what what the ban suggested here as it is clearly gaming the system just like shockpuppet in a different way- it is "plagiarism" which he has done so many times even with warnings for he has not respected of Misplaced Pages policies. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA 12:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

PERMISSION ERROR while trying to create page

Hi everybody,

I`m new to editing and creating pages on wiikipedia. I just edited a page and thought it wasn`t much of a big deal to create a page since I have my article ready. I`m humbly requesting that an Administratot help me create the page. This is the error message I`m receiving: Permission error You do not have permission to create this page, for the following reason:

The page title or edit you have tried to create has been restricted to administrators at this time. It matches an entry on the local or global blacklists, which is usually used to prevent vandalism. If you receive this message when trying to edit, create or move an existing page, follow these instructions:

Any administrator can create or move this page for you. Please post a request at the Administrators' noticeboard. You may also contact any administrator on their talk page or by email. Be sure to specify the exact title (especially by linking it) of the page you are trying to create or edit, and if it might be misunderstood (for example, an article with an unusual name), consider explaining briefly what you want to do. If you wrote any text, save it temporarily on your computer until you can edit the page. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dayoolu (talk • contribs) 12:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi Dayoolu firstly we would need to know what page you are attempting to create as there are a large number of creation protected pages. Secondly we would need to know what it is your going to be adding to the page before we can create it. If you create the page as either a draft or in your Sandbox we can then move it when ready to the appropriate location. Amortias (T)(C) 12:31, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

It is very likely that this is the same person we saw a couple of days ago. That said, I see nothing in the title blacklist log and nothing in the general logs under that username. Guy (Help!) 12:59, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive296 § Ryan Hampton (Author) for the previous incident. Guy (Help!) 13:47, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Disruptive editing by User:Noodlefish96

User kept reverting properly sourced information, adding unsourced statements, and justified their own edits as "improvements." We were both blocked for edit warring on an article (my block lasting 24 hours and theirs lasting 60), but I failed to mention that part of my doing was removing unsourced information and adding citations. When repeatedly asked to provide citations, the user has not done so, and instead responded with: "I'm not considered to be edit warring and I have consensus for my edits," when per the article's talk page, no such thing has been reached. Examples of their reverts are below:

·This edit was described one way, but ABC News, The Hollywood Reporter, but Variety say otherwise.

·This diff's description says the user removed information because it needed a citation when said user removed the information as well as its source.

·This revert's description reads, "section was improved," except that one of the suggestions made by the GA reviewer of the article was not to overlink article titles, which this revert did.

Please assist me on how to proceed. Thank you in advance! DantODB (talk) 17:41, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• @DantODB: Very sorry to hear about your recent troubles. But this is not the place, I'm afraid, for resolving such content-orientated disputes as you present here. Obviously it can't be a behavioural matter as the other party is still blocked. Wait another ~48 hours, and then the both of you put your heads together around table, chew it over, and compromise item by item, on the talk page. Feel free, of course, to start the discussion first, so it's ready and waiting! If you are suggesting that actually (part?) of your block was exempt from edit-warring sanctions, then I'm afraid I have to inform you otherwise. The only thing that would have applied in your case was blatant vandalism—none of which is exemplified in your diffs. (Although I'm in no way condoning their behaviour or suggesting those edits or their remarks should not have been challenged—just that they should have been done so in a different way.) Cheers, >SerialNumber54129 17:50, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I blocked Noodlefish for a variety of reasons, including edit-warring and gaming my request for self-reversion, and they're still blocked. I also blocked DantOBD for four reverts on the material that Noodlefish was disrupting, but for a shorter term, and counseled him on reversion/edit-warring policy. @DantOBD, please follow my advice previously given: I suggest that you concisely address Noodlefish's edits on the talkpage, good, bad or indifferent. That way you'll have a basis for reviewers and uninvolved editors to see what you're doing and why, rather than having to parse a wall of edit history without edit summaries, as has previously been the case. Once you've done that you can start to work on the article again, being careful not to be drawn into an edit-war - if disruption resumes, you'll need to use AN3 or contact an administrator. I am not optimistic about Noodlefish, they have had a bit of trouble with listening to advice and sticking to commitments. We will see what they do when their block expires. In the meantime, please lay out your proposed edits on the talkpage. Acroterion (talk) 18:08, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@DantODB: Noodlefish has been blocked indefinitely as a sock so hopefully that makes things a bit easier for you. --NeilN 21:25, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Serial Number 54129 Acroterion NeilN: Thank you all! DantODB (talk) 05:51, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Multi-user edit war at Somalis

There appears to be a multi-user edit war unfolding at Somalis. I have tried to help resolve the issue on the article talk page, but I have to admit that I am struggling to fully understand the dispute. Note that this discussion resulted in a verdict that it might be necessary to adopt a 1RR policy on Somalia-related articles. I think the issue would benefit from the eyes of some administrators at this point. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• I protected it fully for three days. Yes, the wrong version, of course! Drmies (talk) 21:13, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks. Should the latest edit be reverted? I've kind of lost track of what the consensus version was! Cordless Larry (talk) 21:17, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• I'm just a little birdie who blocks on instinct... Drmies (talk) 21:18, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

As a wp:Rouge admin he is obliged to protect wrong version. It's in our membership agreements. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 21:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Kudos to anyone who can work out what the wrong version is! Cordless Larry (talk) 21:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I am unsure what to do here, should I explain the situation or wait for admins' contribution? The protected version was not the consensus version (obviously!). --Kzl55 (talk) 21:52, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Kzl55: Could you link to that version. If it's the last stable, pre-edit war version, an admin could restore. The purpose of PP though is to induce stakeholders to discuss competing versions as consensus can change. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 21:58, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Could I also request that the editors involved in the dispute try to agree on a brief talk-page summary of the two different versions of the article that are being advocated? Cordless Larry (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• I reverted the latest edit but only because the user was a sock.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:05, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Dlohcierekim: If you take into account the agreement we have in the talk page (Cordless Larry, Koodbuur, Sandman25 and myself) that the article and section should be representative of all Somalis, as broadly as possible, as opposed to having two Sultans in the section belonging to the same group and the same sub-group (as supported by Soupforone and Cabuwaaqwanaag a confirmed sock of serial disruptive editor), then it is this version though it is neither stable (due primarily to opposition by editor Soupforone who states that "...there is no actual Misplaced Pages policy indicating that clan representation must be followed. This is just a courtesy rather than a necessity" ). It has been restored now due to editor Cabuwaaqwanaag being confirmed as a sock. I would like to add that following a request to take the matter to the talk page by Cordless Larry , everyone was discussing the issue exclusively in the talk page until Soupforone's unilateral decision to go back to editing the page , which they continued despite requests to continue the discussion in the talk page , . @Cordless Larry: I can do that no problem. Best wishes --Kzl55 (talk) 22:32, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Just to clarify the above: I agreed in principle that the images should be broadly representative, but haven't really been able to grasp exactly what the different proposals are. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I've summarized the file stuff on the talkpage. Soupforone (talk) 05:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• I have also placed (a somewhat long, but necessary) summary in the talk page.

@Dlohcierekim, Cordless Larry, and Drmies: May I also add that editor Soupforone has a history of unhelpful edits of the Sultan Abdillahi's file in Commons? They attempted to get the file deleted, . This was unsuccessful and the a decision of keep was reached. They then employed the same combative style of editing even after a decision of keep was reached, which forced a moderator to protect the file due to ("continued unsuccessful attempts to get the file deleted by one editor") . Which started this discussion on their talk page . On another file I have uploaded they have made a name change request stating that the file source does not specify ethnicity or clan the skull owner belonged to . This is despite the the source clearly stating both . What was particularly problematic about that edit was their removal of relevant categories from file and replacement with 'fossils' . This resulted in this Common's Administrator's Noticeboard discussion where a number of editors agreed the behaviour was disruptive. They only managed to escape sanctions after acknowledgement of their mistake and promising to cease that behaviour. Yet they are employing the same contentious, pov pushing, style of editing across a number of pages. One example of that being the current discussion at Somalis, another example of current disruptive editing on the Mahmoud Ali Shire page includes addition of unsourced content and content from self-published and user-generated sources (as well as travel guides) despite multiple requests to only add content from reliable sources , , , , , , . On both occasions they were supported by long term vandal and confirmed sock Cabuwaaqwanaag. Can anything be done about them? --Kzl55 (talk) 22:50, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

War Zone Comment

Another dispute about the Horn of Africa!!?! Robert McClenon (talk) 16:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

The Horn of Africa, including Somalia, is the locus of battleground editing because it is an area of the world that is a real battleground. The English Misplaced Pages has dealt with battleground editing of battleground areas, such as Israel and Palestine and India and Pakistan, and areas that have been battlegrounds in the past and where memories are long, such as the Balkans (where World War One started) and Eastern Europe (where World War Two and the Cold War started), in the past. The battleground editing of these battleground areas has been dealt with by ArbCom discretionary sanctions, which are sometimes draconian and so work well at suppressing the battles.

There have been too many disputes about editing involving Somalia, and Ethiopia and Eritrea. It is time either to ask the ArbCom to impose ArbCom discretionary sanctions, or to craft some version of Community General Sanctions that works as well as ArbCom discretionary sanctions, for the Horn of Africa. Otherwise these disputes will keep on coming back here. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Edit conflict in Agat (computer) (violation of WP:RS, WP:NPOV)

Greetings. Please, help us to solve some issues in the article Agat (computer).

An editor insists () on adding the "Reception" paragraph based entirely on a dubious publication in Byte (magazine), where an American ophthalmologist who visited the Soviet Union in 1982 and tested a new PC there describes his experience of working with what he thought was an Agat computer. However, there is a problem with that "reception", namely that it is irrelevant to the Agat. As one of key figures in Soviet computer industry and an infinitely more reliable source has explained on the pages of the PC Magazine () and elsewhere (), what the foreign medic mistook for an Agat during his visit to the Fyodorov Eye Microsurgery Complex in 1982 was a mock-up device built and used for debugging medical software (and not intended for production), i.e. it was NOT the PC described in the article (the latter would be put into production only in 1984, two years after the visit). Furthermore, the same editor who added the irrelevant "reception" put the price of the Agat at $17,000, citing the same questionable article from Byte, though that price is not supported by any other evidence whatsoever and is at odds with the official Soviet source that I have provided (), where the selling price is 3,900 rubles, as well as with another source, where it is estimated at $5,000 (, p. 10).

So, the issues are as follows:

1. The so-called "reception", written by a person not familiar with the Agat, pre-dates the subject matter of the article and describes a different device, not the real Agat. It is, I believe, completely inappropriate to include "receptions" that have little to nothing to do with the subject, i.e. to add a reception of A into an article about B, even if the author of the reception erroneously confused A with B. Such a "reception" is extremely misleading to the reader, as it describes a different product. It needs to be removed.

2. The price cited must be the same as in official, reliable publications, the one at which the computer was sold. A single and questionable claim from Byte cannot be preferred over the official price (which I have provided along with a reference to an official source). However, the aforementioned editor removed the official data and the reference and instead restored the dubious price taken from the publication in Byte (), as if the opinion of a foreign medic was more reliable than official sources and any other evidence.

I have tried to discuss this on the talk page, but to no effect, as my arguments have largely been ignored by the opposing user. Rosso Primavera (talk) 21:29, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I have been trying to comment less at this noticeboard, but I would suggest that this may fall under the heading of "what administrative intervention are you requesting?" It does not yet seem to be a full-blown edit war. I have added my thoughts at the article talk page, and perhaps others could too. MPS1992 (talk) 22:36, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

What you are describing, Rosso Primavera, is a routine content dispute. We do not adjudicate content disputes at this noticeboard. We deal with obvious or persistent editor misconduct and disruption. Continue to make your case at Talk: Agat (computer). If that is not successful, there are various forms of dispute resolution available to you. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:37, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I've been seeing this slow burn on my watchlist since I originally started this article. It is a content dispute and not what this noticeboard is intended for. Lankiveil 03:25, 14 February 2018 (UTC).

Dofhd / Planned Parenthood

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

So here are three gross vandalism edits by an editor who has been around for a while. Compromised account? --JBL (talk) 04:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

It isn't obvious whether the account is compromised or is vandalizing on its own initiative. Note the editor has a history of on-and-off vandalism, e.g. here. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:49, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I've deleted the revisions and left a warning note for the user. Let's wait to see if the user responds. At the moment, it doesn't look like compromised account to me. Alex Shih (talk) 04:51, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

User:112.210.68.217

User:112.210.68.217 apparently introduced pieces of subtle hoax into various articles in October 2017, one of which in the prominent article Arabic I discovered only yesterday. There is probably no action against the user (IP) needed at this moment, but I gave him a (first) warning and most importantly someone should check his other contributions to see whether any other malicious edits have survived to this day. I'm not very active on English Misplaced Pages, so don't know whether this is the best place to report, but I can't check it all myself and thought that letting others know would be good. --Blahma (talk) 08:36, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) @Blahma: The (dynamic) IP was active from October 6th to 10th last year. Apart from correcting the offending edit (I presume it's this one) and checking other edits, there's not much anyone can do, I'm afraid. Kleuske (talk) 09:17, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree. And I would be happy if somebody checked those other edits, because there might be more hoaxes by this user still lying around, like the one I have found and fixed. If there was a template to mark a past vandal or a page to list users whose contributions require a check, I would have posted there instead (my home Misplaced Pages has a page for such kind of reports). --Blahma (talk) 09:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Looking at this editor's edits, I discovered this one, where they replaced the name of the Slovenian PM with that of the President as participating in a summit meeting. After much searching, I found this report, which makes it clear that it was indeed the PM who attended. This makes me very uneasy about the IP's many edits to Death and state funeral of Fidel Castro, which consist of unsourced additions to the list of those attending. I cannot find a list of those attending, but I am very sceptical about those added by the IP, and I think that they should all be removed. I suspect that the same is true of their similar edits to other imternational meetings.

The IP's incorrect removal of the UK from the list of OECD members was swiftly reverted, as was their similar removal of the UK from membership of the Eastern Partnership. The IP has also edited to claim that Syria borders Kyrgyzstan, that Arabic is an official language of the European Union, and that Burundi is a Mediterranean state.

Given all this, I propose that all of the IP's edits are reverted as vexatious trolling. Is there a bot that can carry out this sort of task? RolandR (talk) 16:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/49.147.42.49 appears to be the same troll, not exactly sure how a bot could do it, only about 30-40 edits so undo manually.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:47, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

All the additions to death and state funeral of fidel castro appear to have been reverted anyhow.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I note that this IP was reported to AIV by Dukwon for this behaviour last October, but that no action was taken. The complaint suggests that this is a known IP-hopping vandal. This type of vandalism is hard to detect, but the net effect can be to flood Misplaced Pages with false information, and it is necessary to find a way to deal with this if we want to preserve some integrity. RolandR (talk) 19:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced infomation from one user

LegerPrime (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

LegerPrime is adding lot of unsourced infomation and/or vandalism into lot of articles.

Diffs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=IQiyi&type=revision&diff=818557618&oldid=814583917

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Comcast&type=revision&diff=825336371&oldid=825132473

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?diff=825498242&oldid=825497684&title=Proposed_acquisition_of_21st_Century_Fox_by_Disney&type=revision

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Entertainment_One&diff=prev&oldid=823635444

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Movies_Anywhere&diff=prev&oldid=825212747

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=The_Walt_Disney_Company&diff=next&oldid=824705347

They is adding so many infomation without sources. Some Misplaced Pages users has found that this user also do vandalism.

Can anyone revoke extended confirmed access and extend block for this user to a years or indef? Unsourced infomation and vandalism is bad for Misplaced Pages. 2A02:C7F:9659:4500:781E:3420:E9BF:22AD (talk) 12:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - LegerPrime was blocked by me yesterday, and is currently appealing the block. The reason for the block was AIV request. The user has a right to appeal their block. I'm neutral on the issue, and am wondering why the above post when a block has already been in place. — Maile (talk) 13:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

The OP is asking for the block to be extended. Dorsetonian (talk) 13:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

LegerPrime block may be extended to year or indef anytime once the block appeal is denied or talk page abused. This user must use sources very well and don't do vandalism, but... 2A02:C7F:9659:4500:781E:3420:E9BF:22AD (talk) 13:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

This user did add false claims on user talk page. This user current block need to be extended to years or indef. 2A02:C7F:9659:4500:781E:3420:E9BF:22AD (talk) 15:15, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I've interacted with LegerPrime in several articles and had an extended interaction with him on his talk page after warning him for putting wrongly sourced material in articles. In my view, the user has been trying to use sources when editing since his previous block for adding unsourced material. However, the user has not been very careful when doing so...leading to times when the user does use a source, but the source either does not back up the text being added or does so in a very convoluted manner. The user can be both a bit snippy and sloppy sometimes, but they seem to be acting in good faith.

That said, I don't think this user did anything to deserve a year-long or indef block (though I have no issue with the 3-month block Maile gave out earlier).

Moreover, I note that one of the diffs the IP cited was the diff that led to his current block. All other diffs given by the IP user, except one, are older than the diff that resulted in a 3-month block, (the exception is this one, which I reverted a couple of days ago not because it was unsourced, disruptive, or vandalism, but rather because I didn't think it was notable enough for inclusion in the article). Given that, I don't think any additional action against the editor is warranted. 青い(Aoi) (talk) 16:17, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, Not sure why we are here, as these issues have been addressed already. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

@Aoi: @Dlohcierekim: Talking about extending the block for this user and what this user did done. On https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:LegerPrime, they did claim that "In fairness, my recent edits since my last block were sourced when required.", "One of them were from before my last block. The rest are sourced." and "All of the unsourced edits I did on those were from before my last block.". This user use false sources that have no value to the article. One Misplaced Pages user did claim that this user also vandalized some Misplaced Pages articles. Some the claims in this user talk is false. This user did sent a unblock appeal, but it going to be rejected. 2A02:C7F:9659:4500:781E:3420:E9BF:22AD (talk) 16:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Can anyone close it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:9659:4500:781E:3420:E9BF:22AD (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

User:UnteenthSense′s unethical behavior, and EW

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User:UnteenthSense persistently discusses me, my alleged ulterior motives, "disruptive" nature of my edits, doing "some digging" of my record, etc, instead of discussing the merits of the article under discussion , , . I find such judgmental and ad hominem attitude on the part of an editor, who was registered but a few hours (SIC) prior, highly suspicious. Please check them as a sock, possibly along with User:GodsPlaaaaan. The latter is engaged in active edit warring, against all other editors in List of United States attacks on the Syrian government during the Syrian Civil War (, and other). Axxxion (talk) 14:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, you feel that way. I'm a new account but not a new editor, first off and certainly not another account's sock puppet. This "persistent discussion" you refer to has occurred in one article's talk page where you have been called out by other editors. Have you considered that maybe you're not being harassed or anything of that nature, but your edits truly are disruptive? You fundamentally alter entire articles without consensus and then call foul (and report) when other editors simply call for more discussion. That is wrong. As for User:GodsPlaaaaan's "edit warring". It sounds like he wrote the article to be specifically constrained to certain actions and other editors are trying to transform it to be something else and he's attempting to keep it in its original form.UnteenthSense (talk) 16:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

New account but not a new editor as well. The list is meant to be about intentional attacks which has been very obvious. Your entire reshaping of the list to push for the inclusion of the September 2016 Deir ez-Zor air raid seems to be pushing a POV. This event has already been included in the beginning of the article for a while now with the explanation that it was accidental. Pretty unfair that now that this article is getting more attention because of the Battle of Khasham that its purpose is changed. Also theres is no point in saying I've been disruptive to others when the only reverts have been against you and Selfworm. GodsPlaaaaan (talk) 16:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

The plain fact is that, as is clear from the article′s edit history, GodsPlaaaaan has been reverting repeatedly against three other editors, and I include the revert made () originally by User:Editor abcdef, who possibly belongs to same editor.Axxxion (talk) 16:45, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:SPI is the venue for that discussion. Guy (Help!) 22:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I did revert an addition on the article 6 days ago. I have since changed my mind and agree on listing all attacks in the article, not just intentional ones. I absolutely do not appreciate this pointless accusation. Editor abcdef (talk) 10:07, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Sander.v.Ginkel

In the past, user:Sander.v.Ginkel was the subject to many discussions on this page due to his substandard work. See here, here, here, here and here.

Sander.v.Ginkel got an offer from a user:MFriedman to protect/improve articles something that made people unhappy. See also here. Still, MFriedman went on with moving articles back to main space from draft space, effectively circumventing/ignoring the clean up operation. So far, so good. And the name stuck in my memory.

Recently, Sander.v.Ginkel placed an article on the Dutch Misplaced Pages nl:Ilse Kamps. And out of the blue, after a 4.5 year hiatus, MFriedman showed up to vote for keeping the article due to the article being properly sourced. But MFriedman added these sources, after his vote. At that moment my alarm bells went off!
I requested a sockpuppet investigation and it came back positive. The Checkuser confirmed that Sander.v.Ginkel and MFriedman were identical.

So now we are confronted with a lot of articles that were never checked for the substandard editing of Sander.v.Ginkel moved back into main space by what turned out to be a sockpuppet of Sander.v.Ginkel, MFriedman. This is clearly misusing a sockpuppet to protect articles against thorough scrutiny.

What to do next? The Banner talk 15:55, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Checkuser needed I don't know what's the community consensus regarding accepting CU results on another wiki. If one of our checkusers confirms then I'm looking at indeffing both accounts. --NeilN 16:01, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Neil, the CU is stale as MFriedman has not edited on the English Misplaced Pages since February 2017. RickinBaltimore (talk) 16:15, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Exactly. At the moment, I wouldn't support a block for it would be against policy. Salvio 16:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

(moved from AN) No need for an investigation. You can just ask me, and yes I'm using both accounts Sander.v.Ginkel and MFriedman. When the account Sander.v.Ginkel was blocked I used MFriedman, including review my own articles I created with. See that there are no main issues in the articles I reviewed and added references where needed. See as example here, here, here, here, here, here etc.. Sander.v.Ginkel 16:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I've blocked Sander.v.Ginkel for six months and the puppet account indefinitely. --NeilN 16:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

And how is Sander.v.Ginkel's block preventative in any way? Salvio 16:37, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

@Salvio giuliano: It prevents them from quite flagrantly violating basic policies whenever they feel like it. --NeilN 16:44, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

The thing is, the latest violation was one year ago. I agree that the sock could be blocked, but Sander's block to me seems punitive since it is so long after the fact. Salvio 16:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

A year ago was when SvG also stopped editing before resuming this weekmonth. I do not believe he would have stopped socking had he not been caught last week on the Dutch Misplaced Pages. --NeilN 16:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Scores of his pages moved to Draft are coming up for WP:G13 after being tagged as promising drafts 6 months ago which lead to this discussion Misplaced Pages:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:Pierre_Le_Roux Legacypac (talk) 16:25, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Back when this issue first came up there was pretty clear consensus to indef block this user. Unfortunately, that consensus was overruled in a pretty blatant supervote. If the views of the participants in that discussion had not been discarded and ignored on a whim, this ongoing disruption could have been avoided- as I said at the time. Reyk _YO! 16:34, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• No issue with me if editors want to change my six month block into an indef. --NeilN 16:37, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Already requested a User_talk:Sander.v.Ginkel#February_2018 block review. My review is to indef. There are a lot of page moves that need to be checked again Special:Contributions/MFriedman Legacypac (talk) 17:10, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Some Wikipedians have already misjudged the likelihood that SvG would continue to be a problem editor. I think some editors have, in their misguided mercy, forgotten that WP:BLOCKDETERRENT is supposed to have deterrent value. If en-wiki is unwilling to halt the editing of problem editors, then it only encourages this sort of activity where crocodile-tears promises and the forgiveness of long-undetected misbehavior becomes the norm. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:01, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• I've just noticed that MFriedman commented in the thread linked by Reyk above that somewhat swayed a few following comments! SvG claims he "wasn't aware how bad it is to use another account." It should be obvious that you shouldn't use an alternative account to support yourself. With this in mind, I'd support upgrading the block to indefinite. Mr Ernie (talk) 18:12, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

MFriedman discussed SvG as another person here which is deceitful and suggestive we can't believe the statements in the unblock request either. It is pretty clear that their promotions of SvG pages back to mainspace were problematic from the talkpage. Legacypac (talk) 18:25, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Support indef- obviously. Reyk _YO! 19:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Having read through this past thread and noting SvG's assertion that he wasn't "aware how bad it is to use another account" I believe more than ever that my six month block was justified. This isn't tripping over some Misplaced Pages policy, this is an indication of a lack of basic common sense and ethics. We cannot have an editor deficient in both areas editing freely here. --NeilN 19:34, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Is Beatley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) likely to be another sock? Guy (Help!) 20:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

  I though Beatley is a confirmed sock of Slowking4.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I just don't know Slowking4, I don't know if this could be one sockfarm. I guess not, though. Guy (Help!) 21:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Permaban. Now. I checked the stats: Pages created 37,054 of which 22,482 since deleted, I don't think I have ever seen an editor with that many deleted creations before - and then add the blatantly deceptive sockpuppetry. Guy (Help!) 23:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
• I think the consensus is clear; given the deceptive sockpuppetry after they were very lucky to get away without an indef ban last time, I have changed the block to an indefinite one. This is required in order to prevent further damage to the project by an individual who clearly does not see the need to follow our rules, and who cannot be trusted to conform to the expectations of the wider editing community. I haven't had time to consider the question of this user's articles yet, but I think that is a discussion that needs to be had separate to this block. Lankiveil 00:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC).
• Indef block - I am not impressed in the least by the Wikilawyering/WP:BUROish arguments presented above. WP:IAR is clear: when a rule is preventing you from improving Misplaced Pages, ignore the rule. Well, the rules cited above which supposedly prevent the indeffing of SvG are standing in the way of the project being improving by removing from its midst a blatantly problematic editor, problematic both in their behavior and in their content output. Misplaced Pages will be improved by not having SvG around, so let's stop gnashing our teeth and worrying about technicalities and get rid of him. Let WP:COMMONSENSE reign. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

The articles

I started G5ing the article, but looking at it again, that may not be what's needed. Many were moved back while SvG was not actually blocked, though he undoubtedly would have been if this had been spotted. If they had remained in Draft, most would long ago have qualified for G13 as very few had any substantive edits at all other than the SvG sock (a few bots and formatting edits, and almost none with any edits in the last 6 months). The issues that led tot he move to Draft have undoubtedly not been fixed in more than a tiny proportion of cases, since there have been few if any edits to any of them.

Should I leave them nuked, or restore and move them back to Draft? Guy (Help!) 20:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I somehow thought that at some point I nuked all the articles which were left in the draft, there were around 5K of them. I am surprised that there are still any left. Is it clear what the origin of these drafts is? Were they moved out of the draft and then moved back? On an unrelated note, I do not see anything controversial with the deletions, but delinking the pages from Olympic-related pages might be not necessarily the best idea - all Olympians are notable, and redlinks are way more visible than black unlinked text. Also, if an article is created by a good faith user, it takes a bit of time to figure out where it should be linked from.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:00, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Created by SvG, moved to draft during cleanup, moved back by MFriedman with comments like "checked" or "no SvG issues". Guy (Help!) 21:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I see. I would say then indefblock and mass deletion. This is clearly evasion of sanctions imposed by community on SvG.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:34, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

They shouldn't be unlinked. There are several prolific creators of Olympian biographies, and this adds a time-consuming additional step if/when they create these ones. —Xezbeth (talk) 22:00, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

OK. will bear that in mind. Thanks. Guy (Help!) 22:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Suck's that a nuke had to happen and olympic medal winner's like Alec Potts end up deleted but i guess it had too happen, feel sorry for the poor soul who has to clean up the nuke's results. GuzzyG (talk) 23:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

@GuzzyG: - I'm happy to (re)create a stub for any nuked Olympians. If you (or anyone else) wants any doing, drop me a note on my talkpage, or list them at WT:OLY. I'll do this one later at some point. Lugnuts 09:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I looked at this article. The version SvG moved into article space had four sentences, one of which was an obvious BLP violation (admins only). How can they have missed this? --NeilN 23:36, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Between you and me, I don't think the sports fans necessarily look very hard - they are generally looking to have as many articles as possible, and any article that has superficial referenciness gets pretty much a free pass. Hence the massive problem with SvG. They mean well, but their inclusion standards are, IMO, well below the norm for Misplaced Pages. "Competed in X" suffices even if nobody wrote about the person in any way at all other than in the results table. Guy (Help!) 13:13, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I posted a list of SvG drafts tagged as "Promising Drafts" on User_talk:Legacypac#SvG. They have the same issues that the others do, and should be deleted. Legacypac (talk) 20:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Wikiedebs and North Korea

User:Wikiedebs is on a one-user mission to remove negative information about North Korea from Misplaced Pages. This mainly takes the form of blatant deletions, e.g. . They constantly lie in edit summaries and incorrectly mark them as minor, e.g. . Their strategy is to make an innocuous edit towards the top of a page to disguise content removals below . More recently they have resorted to childishly bombarding articles with "citation needed" tags. And finally just plain and simple edit-warring . Ivar the Boneful (talk) 19:38, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

That sure is a lot of blanking. And this response isn't really what I'd be looking for as an explanation. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:23, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Not all of the inclusions are what I'd characterise as "propaganda", but the seeming focus on replacing references to "North Korea" with "DPRK" is definitely in line with North Korean propaganda practice. The marking of major revisions as "minor" is quite problematic, and if nothing else a warning is justified for that. Lankiveil 04:51, 15 February 2018 (UTC).

Wikiedebs has continued edit-warring after I opened this thread. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 06:13, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

They haven't really, User:Ivar the Boneful. I do agree this is major disruption, and has been going on for far too long, so thank you for reporting it. At the same time, it's a little misleading to say they have continued edit-warring. After they saw and acknowledged your ANI alert (admittedly in a silly way, as the Ninja points out), they have on the contrary self-reverted some of their edit warring. They may not realize it would be a good idea to respond here as well, and I have now urged them to. (P.S., a minor point: their editing also seems careless, going by the sampling I've done; they change what was grammatically correct phrasing to introduce errors ("the south had declaring statehood", "he authorize war"). Bishonen | talk 09:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC).

Disruptive proxy user

Maybe this issue has been previously discussed. There is an Iranian proxy hopper, that has been disrupting Misplaced Pages for a very long time. The user incorrectly inserts DOB in the infobox, e.g. , , . There are tons of other examples, cross-wiki as well. Could anything be done about this recurring vandalism/trolling? A range block? Disembodied Soul (talk) 20:05, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Smells like the Cause of death vandal to me - blocked. Berean Hunter has slapped a range block on one of those IPs already. Ritchie333 20:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Not really the MO of our long-term vandal, to be honest - this just looks like common vandalism that happens to be centred around infoboxes. Black Kite (talk) 23:38, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Yelysavet vs. Interwikilinks II

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I would still like an opinion on whether the interwikilinks removed by user:Yelysavet should be restored.

And if so, how could this be done efficiently?

Please see my request from December.

best regards, KaiKemmann (talk) 23:27, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Admins don't decide on stuff like this. You should ask at the village pump. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:33, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Spammed unblock requests in range 110.54.192.0/18

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I saw Legoktm (talk · contribs) had blocked range 110.54.192.0/18. A user appears to be going through several of the IPs in that range and spamming the same unblock "request" onto each of them (if you can call them legitimate requests, as they are only the two words "unblock me" in every case). I'm not sure the history on this range; but the copy/pasted requests make WP:DUCK test easy to apply here. I thought I would ask for comments before taking any action here. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 05:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Rangeblock request for 2606:A000:7F86:3300:*

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Requesting a range block for 2606:A000:7F86:3300:*. This range is being used by the Care Bear vandal Brandon1222 (see User:EvergreenFir/socks#Care_Bears_vandal_(Brandon1222)_-_Lexington,_SC). The range geolocates to Lexington, SC. The target pages are Care Bears, Crayola, and Franklin (the turtle). Today, this user was vandalizing Franklin (, ). Note that an IP from this range was once reported (a year ago) to the Brandon1222 SPI page... the edits since then match this user's behavior. If more info is needed, ping me. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

2606:a000:7f86:3300::/64 blocked six months. --NeilN 06:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! EvergreenFir (talk) 06:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Template vandalism by Sefec

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Sefec is transcluding the article at Feces into various templates; see their short editing history doing only that (I noticed it because one of them was being used here). Thanks, –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 06:34, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Got 'im, thanks. ansh666 06:44, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Editting war and possible sockpuppets abuse

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Recently I made two normal edits (see this one and that one) to the article Macau order of precedence in which I added an "unreferenced" template and created the "references" section which is definitely normal given this article cites no sources. Nevertheless, several IP users(i.e. 101.15.5.141, 49.216.208.51, 101.10.33.190 and 180.204.70.3 all of which are single-purpose users) have been continuously trying to undo my edits. These IP users are likely to be sockpuppets the same person. --223.89.144.195 (talk) 12:08, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I can protect the article if you like, but it would probably be a good idea if you got yourself a regular ID as well. Deb (talk) 12:38, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Deb:Hey Deb, can you help deal with these sockpuppets? They have been harrassing me by undoing my edits for quite a while. Protecting this article alone seems to have few effects. Btw, I will create an account after this. Thanks for your reminder though. --223.89.144.195 (talk) 12:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Similar circumstances also occur in editting the "Category:Hong Kong". --223.89.144.195 (talk) 12:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

It looks like things have stopped on both Macau order of precedence and Category:Hong Kong. Applying temporary semi-protection to these pages would have been the correct solution, however this would also lock you out of being able to edit them, since you don't have an account. I highly recommend that you follow Deb's advice above and create an account for yourself so that you won't be affected by simple measures to stop page disruption (such as this). Shoot, if you create an account now and respond to this ANI with your IP and tell me the username of the ccount you just created, I'll manually set it as 'confirmed' for you right away :-) ~Oshwah~ 03:41, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

The IP address has confirmed an account that (s)he created. So that this new account's IP address is kept private, I've redacted the edits and usernames where this verification was made. ~Oshwah~ 09:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Darkness Shines: edit-warring, incivility and personal attacks at Cambodian genocide

Darkness Shines (talk · contribs) has really gone overboard in the last day or so. I don't even remember what the content of my edits was that got caught in his back-to-2015 (!) mass-revert, so I consider myself basically neutral on the content. But edit summaries like "As before, and this section is bollocks", "fuck me, ever more shite", "Who the fuck cites Rummel", "Shite sources and off topuc bollocks" and "How about, your a prick, how about an article in a fucking genocide is, I dunno focused on that, how about fuck off." are clearly way out of line, and some of the others (like this) are completely incoherent. These edit summaries appear to be in violation of his 2015 unblock conditions here (particularly point 3).

He also broke 3RR by reverting four times in just over two hours. (It may also run afoul of 1RR, since his block log mentions it but this was never apparently logged at WP:RESTRICT so I can't tell if it was appealed. I apologize if I am mistaken.)

Most disheartening, though, is the fact that according to the log this is coming one month after his last block, two months after he was blocked for "Edit warring, incivility, and badgering other editors", edit-warring a month before that, edit-warring two months before that, and four months before that given WP:ROPE following an indef block appeal.

I honestly don't want this to go where it looks likely to go, since I actually agree that the article before his revert was pretty bad, but this really needs the community's attention.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

BTW: I know the page was protected per my request at RFPP so the content dispute is "over" as far as that goes. But that was before I noticed his block log and unblock restrictions. If I thought this was a workable content dispute I wouldn't have come to ANI to begin with. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:55, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Comment My recommendation at RFPP was to step back, calm down, and recenter. Not surprised to see this post here. The edit summaries were appalling. There is discussion on the article talk, but it appears at an impasse. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 12:59, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that. FWIW, if DS logs in and does a complete about-face and follows Dlohcierekim's advice, my above report can probably be considered withdrawn. I do think civility restrictions need strict enforcement the same as every other editing restriction, but I'm also not into wikilawyering over such things. More eyes on the dispute (whatever it is even about at this point; I've lost track) can't but be a good thing, mind you. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:07, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

This attempt at collaboration was met with this response. "I don't care what others think" seems to sum up all the mass reverts and deletions on the page. Hijiri 88 did the right thing bringing this here, and I don't see how/why even an about-face would justify the withdrawing of this report. Grandpallama (talk) 15:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

We are going to continue to be here, every other week, it seems.--Jorm (talk) 17:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• This is clearly a one-sided dispute from a single editor who came out of the gates with all barrels firing. Not only has Darkness Shines approached the "discussion" without the slightest hint of good faith, they've made it explicit they don't feel they have to explain themselves. This is despite so many of the reverts being problematic—some disputed (Pol Pot's death described as suicide), some straight up gibberish ("perpetrator guanoator"???). Can anyone give a coherent rationale for action not being taken against this behaviour (which appears to be par for the course given DS's block log). There's seriously no chance this person will begin to engage in GF discussion. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Unpleasant Proposal Time

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Yuck. Ugh. - This is an even longer block log than for the two principal subject editors currently before the ArbCom. What we have here is an editor whose objective is to improve the encyclopedia, but who is unable, no matter how many times around, to edit collaboratively. It doesn't matter whether we call it not being here to contribute to the encyclopedia or being incompetent at working as part of a team or what. Unfortunately, I can't be optimistic enough to support the usual indefinite block with the understanding that indefinite is not infinite, because history shows that the editor will ask one more time for a standard offer or get tangled up in 20 feet of rope. I think that we have to impose either a site ban or an indefinite block with the condition that only the community can lift the block. If the community doesn't want to do this, then the case will go to the ArbCom, which will probably decline it, and accept it on second filing in the northern summer. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:31, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Support an Indefinite Block, to be lifted only by the community, or a Site Ban. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:31, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support site or community ban. I do not believe DS is here to operate in good faith, and have not believed so for quite some time.--Jorm (talk) 01:45, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support either an indef with community approval needed to lift, or an outright site ban. The block log and edit summaries indicate a hopeless case. The community needs to make it clear that this behavior will not be tolerated. Jusdafax (talk) 02:33, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support indef block with condition - We are here for something DS has said or done every few weeks and it is getting stale repeating the same ol' story. As I said last time, the community did its best but some editors simply do not take a hint. Fair warning: DS discussed creating another account during his last go-around; I would be wary of a scheme to evade scrutiny.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:41, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Wait what? If that is the case I may have to strike my soft oppose below, you got diffs handy? Gabriel syme (talk) 06:04, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Gabriel syme, in this edit summary, DS made his intentions quite apparent. That was last time, and, considering he has once again placed himself in a similar predicament, I felt it was worth mentioning the possibility of using another account to evade a site ban. Can not say I agree with you calling him "prolific" below when the only thing he is "prolific" for is net-negative contributions and an inability to communicate with others.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 07:41, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Support CBAN - This will be their third indefinite block, so I prefer to impose a community ban at this juncture. They received an indef block in November, 2014 for abusing multiple accounts. This block was lifted in March, 2015 – about five months later. Their second indefinite block came on 27 May, 2015 per an arbitration enforcement of a TBAN. This block was lifted mid-September 2017 – after 2 + 1/3 years, and only 5 months ago. This is a clear and recurring problem. Mr rnddude (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support CBAN might as well formalize it. The blocks haven't worked, and an "indef with community approval needed" might as well be a site ban. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:57, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support siteban. Per above. I don't remember the last time I encountered DS, just that it was unpleasant, and over the years I've seen quite a lot of unpleasantness coming from that account.Per TonyBallioni, "indef with community approval needed" either means siteban or is meaningless (since there'd be community approval in a SO situation, or the Committee would just take jurisdiction entirely). As I've said in many discussions recently, we have a problem where AN/ANI try to come up with "gotcha" scenarios to prevent blocks issued today from being lifted in six months. While "with community approval needed" doesn't nearly approach the level of silliness I've seen recently (in one case, I believe an indef, along with an indef topic ban that only kicks in if the block is lifted), I believe we should avoid putting into place novel procedural hurdles geared towards giving indefinite sanctions more permanence. —/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 03:48, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support site ban. I don't see how a topic ban would work. Binksternet (talk) 03:52, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support CBAN. How much evidence does we need to finally decide an editor is not acting in good faith? Gamaliel (talk) 03:54, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support site-ban (reluctantly) <sigh> I'm pretty sure I've had positive interactions with DS at some point in the past, and I personally really hate seeing a content creator get banned because they violated CIVIL, but them's the rules, and unfortunately DS has run afoul of them one too many times at this point, so I really don't see any hope for another final last chance. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Soft oppose I hear all of the above but I've run into conflicts with DS before, and while I agree they can often be difficult to deal with, I would hate to lose such an editor who is prolific on such important topics as they generally edit. That being said perhaps sanctions are in order, I'm new at this. I definitely get the exhaustion of the community with 'one last chance'. Gabriel syme (talk) 05:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support site-ban; per rnndude and jusdafax. We shouldn't tolerate such behaviour, even if the editor does contribute. Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:05, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support site ban, obviously. This should have been done years ago. And let's not pretend this is some kind of valuable content contributor whose only issue is a foul temper. The core problem about DS has always been that his content contributions are uniformly bad, and that he lacks the competence to engage in any meaningful discussion about them. He's always been a net negative to the project. After how many (two? three?) indef blocks, dozens of blocks for edit-warring, at least three topic bans, and uncounted "civility restrictions" and "revert paroles" (all of which were broken), it's time to close the door for good. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support site-ban for above. We should not tolerate this kind of behaviour. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 07:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support enough is enough. His block log is a mile long, the C.W.Gilmore feud was ridiculous, and when DS finally edits somewhere outside of American politics, his behavior is somehow worse. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support I tried to do this in early January, but did it while he was blocked and mucked it up real time. But yes, block log longer than the A1, and as Jorm said above, we'll be here every week if DS gets involved in some sort of content dispute. He has self-stated his lack of patience for others. !dave 08:02, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support- this editor has clearly become unmanageable. Reyk _YO! 09:13, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support - per my earlier observation that "I don't care what others think" shows a mentality that is fundamentally opposed to collaboration. Add into that the constant feuding at ANI, the nature of the edits, the 1001 second chances, and it feels like yet another example of too much past patience. Grandpallama (talk) 10:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Derogatory comments

Sport and politics made an edit on WrestleMania 34 here despite it being source and content supported by source. After it was undone by a user other than myself he undid it again here. After it was once again undone by a user other than myself he added it back for a third time here here. I now came in and this page was previously locked for similar types of edit warring, so I had opened a conversation on this matter to the talk page Talk:WrestleMania 34#Page locked over two weeks ago, to which no one including this user chose to reply to. Therefore since there was no clear consensus I reverted this again with the intention of going to the users page to alert him to the discussion. Before i was able to he opened his own conversation here Talk:WrestleMania 34#Match speculation.

After I explained to him why he was incorrect, he then went to my talk page to make the same arguments again here. Based on his comments I felt it was clear his intentions were to edit war rather than to engage in a conversation, so I simply responded with if he added it back again I would report him for edit warring, and I issued a warning on his page here.

Now for why I am coming here instead of WP:ANEW. Instead of again engaging in a conversation he chose to make comments like " talk second wanker who is typical of tiny endowed males". Personal attacks and derogatory comments. He then decided to issue me an edit warring message instead here, which I removed, as I am more than allowed to do. He felt that I am apparently not allowed to do that and added it back to my page here. I feel that this persons actions are clearly violating multiple policies which is why I am bringing it here. - Galatz 13:13, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

YAWN.

This is a waste of time.

The discussion on my talk page is closed. A simple look at the very top of my page would indicate my preference regarding the placing of warnings on my page without discussion. Ignoring that is not going to be very constructive. Warnings are a last resort and not a first resort.

No one can give offence one can only take offence, and I cannot be responsible for how touchy and snowflakey other users are, particularly when they are placing garbage on my talk page. The comments are also general in nature and refer to a style of dumping warnings on my talk page without attempting to engage in discussions, which this user is engaging in. The user would be in a far better position if they had an issue with my editing to set up a genuine discussion and not to jump in with threatening warnings. This discussion for example would not exist.

For the benefit of the user who has bought this discussion up here is what WP:civility states:

Be careful with user warning templates. Be careful about issuing templated messages to editors you're currently involved in a dispute with,... Consider using a personal message instead....

This user should be aware that because they dislike what I have done it is not an excuse for them to perpetuate the behaviour they are complaining of. If they have an issue with reverting, they should not also be engaging in reverting. They should be having a civilised discussion.

I started the discussion on the article talk page, before they user placed such threatening warnings on my page, and they should have engaged in the discussion on the article talk page, as opposed to taking everything in such a high and mighty fashion. The user who has made this report is entirely at fault for the creation of the situation, wheen they should have been engaging on the article talk page.

It also helps if other users use correct pronouns for editors, I am not a he. I am a she. This is abundantly clear on my user page. Sport and politics (talk) 13:40, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I believe the above comments confirm that this user is interested in solely proving they are right rather than reading what other people right. I clearly stated that I opened the dialog over 2 weeks ago, yet this user ignored that and proceeded to edit their position disregarding the talk page of the page they were editing. Additionally they have ignored the fact that I explained above the rationale for placing the warning on their talk page. Also according to Merriam-Webster the word he can be defined as used in a generic sense or when the sex of the person is unspecified as you can see here. - Galatz 14:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Comment - Galatz, please make use of an editors preferred pronoun identification usage. You're now aware of it, if you weren't before, so please use it and don't dig a hole. Apologise on that instead of defending your edit and move on. Canterbury Tail talk 14:28, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Apologies if my comments came off that way, it was not my intention. - Galatz 14:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Did I just hear someone say "No one can give offence one can only take offence"? That sounds like something kids learn in kindergarten, one of many lies they're taught. Drmies (talk) 15:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Yup. I will admit there is a lot of strength to the S&P incivility issues. Plus I'm sure we've seen her on this board multiple times before for similar. Canterbury Tail talk 15:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand. You're saying that although someone is discussing, because of the things they've done and said, you refuse to accept that they're actually willing to discuss the issue and so are not going to engage in the ongoing discussion and instead have decided to take a WP:Content dispute to ANI or continue to WP:Edit war? As far as I see, S&P posted on the article talk page, you replied, they replied and so it's awaiting further replies from you or someone else. Nil Einne (talk) 14:37, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

My point of coming here is for their comments and actions outside of the discussion on the talk page. - Galatz 14:40, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

But for what? Realistically minor incivility like that is never going to result in sanction. And while 3RR is not a right, it's not likely someone will be blocked for only 3 reversion, even if it is against multiple other people, unless the edit itself is a serious problem (BLP vio, copyright problem). Especially when they are initiate a discussion after. If either side continues to edit war, you may start to expected either blocks or more likely for the article to be protected. I suggest you all just stop edit warring instead. In other words, sure S&P's behaviour may not be great, but it's not the sort of thing for which there is any hope of action for ANI so I ask again, why are you bringing this content dispute to ANI? The only thing here which seems to be a real problem is the reversion of your removal of their warning on your talk page. (Something you only mentioned at the end of your opening comment.) Per WP:OWNTALK that's clearly wrong. Still it's not something that needs to be at ANI unless S&P continues to add it back. Instead just politely point out OWNTALK to them and ask them not to revert. Something I've now done. Nil Einne (talk) 14:55, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Their comments which I pointed out above are a clear violation of WP:NPA. There was a conversation already on the talk page which the user ignored, only after being reverted 3 times did they open a second thread in talk (note edit warring and 3RR are not the same, they still violated edit warring even without a 4th revert). Per WP:BRD they should have gone to talk after the first revert, not 3rd. Although each one individually may not warrant actions, I believe the combination of everything together is worthy of bringing to ANI. I understand you might not agree, and that is fine. I however felt that this did. - Galatz 15:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

It is clear there is no action to result from this discussion, and I call for this discussion to be closed. Galatz needs to move on from flogging this dead horse. This is getting very boring. Sport and politics (talk) 15:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

This comment has not aged well, has it? I find it interesting that S&P has closed every single thread on her own talk page. That is highly unusual and reflects her unwillingness and/or inability to collaborate well with others. Lepricavark (talk) 16:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I didn't read the replies above since I'm a bit bored of this dispute but I just remembered something I forgot to say. I question the utility of issuing an edit warring warning to someone who had just warned you. The primary point of the warning is to ensure that: 1) The editor is aware of our policy on edit warring (particularly since admins are less willing to block if it's a minor violation and the editor is likely unaware) 2) To remind the editor they should try engage in discussion rather than edit warring. While I admit I don't hang out at WP:AN/EW, I would be surprised if any admin didn't block due to the lack of a warning if the editor themselves just issue a warning related to that dispute so just show them issuing the warning if needed, i.e. we can cross of 1. And if an editor isn't self aware enough to remember that they too should be engaging in discussion if involved in the dispute, I don't think warning them back is going to help so let's cross of 2. But anyway whatever. it happened. But I still strongly suggest rather than engaging in this pointless aside you concentrate on the dispute at hand on the article talk page. (Which itself looks like it will be moot in under 2 months.) Nil Einne (talk) 15:25, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Sports and politics, this is of course not cool. Don't do that again. Galatz, I looked but I failed to see the clear violations of NPA. Drmies (talk) 15:34, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• @Sport and politics: Also, make a comment like this again and you're looking at a block. I doubt we'd tolerate a similar comment made about a female editor and we're not having a double standard here. --NeilN 15:38, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Whoa. Drmies (talk) 15:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• That was the comment I was referring to. - Galatz 15:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• I didn't see that, sorry--but I was looking for diffs and skimmed over the text. Drmies (talk) 15:50, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
• Apologies, I read your reference to the comment above, but didn't read it properly and thought the extent of the incivility was a single instance of calling someone a wanker. I agree that with the second part of the comment it's a much more serious problem and worthy of bringing to ANI whether or not anything happens. Nil Einne (talk) 00:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

And this is pretty much their last comment. Still attacking other editors. I must say I am leaning towards a block for S&P for incivility and inability to work with others and collaborate. Sick of seeing her name here. Canterbury Tail talk 15:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

User:Canterbury Tail, I certainly agree that any next blow below the belt should be followed by a block. I'd like to hear from Sports and politics; I want to know if she gets the point. Drmies (talk) 15:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• I suspect a male editor making similarly nasty gendered insults against a female editor would have already been permablocked. Reyk _YO! 15:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Maybe. Drmies (talk) 15:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
• I suspect they'd be blocked for a period of time, yes. --NeilN 15:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Sport and politics, sorry to interrupt your nap, but for all your yawning and dismissiveness there's a couple of admins here who are not quite done with you and your sexist jokes yet. Drmies (talk) 16:17, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
• New rule: any editing dispute over wrestling article to lead to immediate topic bans of all involved and deletion of the article. I think this will rapidly improve the project. Guy (Help!) 22:11, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

As much as I want to make a drive-by-witticism agreement with this, I'm forced to admit that if we do this, we may as well hang out a sign saying "Meat and sock puppets wanted. Apply within." Because an articles owned by puppets is the only way to avoid disputes. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:55, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I'll go you one better. EEng 06:23, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Asking for more eyes at FixMeStick

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There have been recent attempts by Keegan-FMS (talk · contribs) and 66.131.198.184 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) to rewrite the FixMeStick article into a marketing PR version, reading more as an advertisement rather than as an encyclopedia article. Considerable portions of the promotional versions appears to be direct copy/paste of wording from Amazon.com and FixMeStick.com. See examples of promotional versions:

• Revision as of 14:49, 31 January 2018
• Revision as of 20:59, 31 January 2018
• Revision as of 13:08, 9 February 2018
• Revision as of 17:46, 9 February 2018
• Revision as of 13:32, 15 February 2018

Both accounts have ignored posts to their user talk pages; and the IP resumed this activity again today, shortly after their prior block had expire. To their credit, the user and IP have attempted to add refs for some statements; but that doesn't resolve the marketing puffery and potential copied content in the underlying text. The most recent promotional version contained a series of "refs" at the end; however, those appear to just be the refs from the original status-quo version. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:53, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Keegan-FMS is obviously COI based on username and presumably PAID. IP geolocates to company area. DMacks (talk) 17:00, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done: User and IP blocked. Article protected. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:05, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Article rolled back to a version prior to the promotional editing. Guy (Help!) 22:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Music category vandal needs rangeblock renewed

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NeilN blocked Special:Contributions/2601:248:C000:0:0:0:0:0/37 for a week but the block expired. The schoolgirl behind this IP range has returned to her disruption in music categories, so it would be great to see the block engaged again, for longer this time. Binksternet (talk) 17:51, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Two months this time. --NeilN 17:59, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! Binksternet (talk) 18:06, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

MfD/CSD

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I can neither MfD nor CSD the following because the pages are protected. Help!

Scratch that, the Dquiambao page turned up in the MfD listing at last. Cabayi (talk) 18:04, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I've deleted all of them as G6 (obviously created in error) and closed the MfDs. Thanks, ansh666 00:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Racist and antisemitic troll needs blocking

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

YipC (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:YipC has already been blocked on Commons for calling someone a "disgusting jew". Their user page here has recently been deleted at their request, but contained anti-Israel statements. Most of their uploads on Commons were copyright violations and have been deleted. A draft they created here is a cut and paste copyright violation of the reference used. They initially represented themself as a young user based in China, but contradicted that on their (now deleted) userpage. Some of their racist comments about Inidan people have been revdeleted, so I'm not sure why they haven't been blocked already. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 18:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

The user page was concerning and I've deleted the copyvio draft but the only revdels I could spot were for copyright violations that they didn't commit (a large chunk of article history had to be wiped). Do you have diffs or pointers to these racist comments? --NeilN 18:34, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Diffs? ... I gave them a final warning a month ago and so far as far as I can see they've not repeated any of that. –Davey2010 18:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Facepalm I was the one who revdelled those edits. I was thinking about an indef but saw your final warning. --NeilN 18:50, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Now I remember that revdel'd comment too... was it reported at ANI or something? Anyway, the diff I give below is the only thing on en-wiki I can see since the final warning. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Aside from the comment at Commons, I've found this so far. Not "racist", but bigoted. Still looking. I'm inclined to block just for the comment on Commons, on the theory that we don't value contributions from antisemites, whether they've learned not to say bad words on WP or not, but I've received pushback on similar blocks in the past if they're not actively doing bigoted stuff in articles. Note that criticism of the Israeli government isn't antisemitic; while that page needed to be deleted for WP:POLEMIC reasons, it isn't a reason to block. Like I said, still looking. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

What you found was the closest I could find since the final warning. I can't find reason to block, even if I don't believe that the root attitude problem has changed. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought the username sounded familiar, I recall the now-revdel'd racist comment Davey warned them for. My inclination is to block, but because the only unacceptable thing since the final warning is the mildly worded (but still bigoted) comment I link above, I'd like another opinion or two that such a block is OK, and not "censoring unpopular opinions" (which was used to criticize a similar block I made a while ago). (I guess I should be relieved that antisemitism or anti-Indian bigotry is still considered "unpopular"...) --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't find that diff linked above in any way acceptable, and would support a block. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:06, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Framing this as "would it be nice to block?" instead of "can we block without causing trouble?" there's a pretty clear consensus. It's the other question that seems to be delaying this. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Just tossing out opinions here: 1) do we normally have authority to block here for things happening on another wiki if they haven't carried over here? 2) that comment, while certainly unacceptably biased, seems like a user with an unfortunate inherent bias attempting to discuss an issue from that perspective, but in a good-faith way, of a sort. It's something that because of their bias they perceive as a problem needing to be fixed. They're wrong, but this is pretty far from a racist attack and I don't think it's blockable. The user seems to respond well to suggestions. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 19:35, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Just to be clear, which comment is it that you're saying is merely "unacceptably biased" but "pretty far from a racist attack"? Is it calling an Indian IP user a "brown dog" or calling a Jewish user a "disgusting jew"? World's Lamest Critic (talk) 20:11, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Following the conversation instead of looking for any reason to criticize, this post would be the most likely candidate for what Ivanvector is talking about. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:12, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Moot point now I suppose, but I was referring to the one Floquenbeam linked; this one. Following the conversation it appears that the user had already been warned about all of the others, and hadn't repeated that at least on this wiki. I can't argue with Drmies' block, though, and the devil needs no advocate, least of all me. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 20:39, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• I'm sorry, but are we really debating whether we want to keep an editor who is comfortable calling somebody a "disgusting Jew"? The fuck we do, get rid. Mr rnddude (talk) 19:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
  • That is a valid question, and I answered that with an indefinite block. The editor (whose other comment I also remember) is welcome to explain themselves on their talk page in an unblock request. For now I see a consensus that we do not want an editor who used that kind of language on another project, and some "mildly bigoted" language here, after a history of trouble. Drmies (talk) 20:13, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Drmies, thank you. I support your decision to allow them the opportunity to explain themselves. Whether or not that leads to a reinstatement of their editing privileges is a matter for others to handle. Mr rnddude (talk) 20:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Part of the issue is that the user is probably Chinese and isn't speaking so much out of ingrained antisemitism as sheer ignorance (hateful ignorance). China just does not study the Holocaust (unlike Nanking) and views Hitler as just another dictator. The western culture class I taught gave one line out of a 400 page textbook to the Holocaust's influence (I did my best to correct this by gathering and showing as many pictures as I could find with the intention of making at least one person in the room cry). Ian.thomson (talk) 20:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

That is interesting. So blocking etc could be an example of systemic bias! - Sitush (talk) 20:15, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't know if I'd go that far, but it's more that we need to balance community peace with the need to educate. One student who had done prior reading on it told me he heard that the Jews were put in the concentration camps because they charged interest rates, which indicates that when it is studied in China, it's from a supposedly economic perspective (because the truth would involve teaching that religion matters to some people, something the atheist PRC doesn't want people to consider). Ian.thomson (talk) 20:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Racism and antisemitism have no place here. It doesn't matter if it is trolling, deliberate, or ignorance. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 20:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm not saying they do, I'm saying that if we have the opportunity to educate instead of harden those beliefs, we should. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:59, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Sitush:I would agree with that, but hasten to add that not all biases are bad, even when they're systemic. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Requesting removal of Pending Changes permissions

I've spoken to WikiPedant (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions) a number of times about the recent change to the Days-of-year pages, which now requires sourcing. Most of these pages have pending changes settings configured such that non auto-confirmed users require acceptance. Unfortunately, when I discussed this change with the editor, s/he rejected the change to the project and told me to get off his/her talk page.

Since this editor is deliberately accepting un-sourced additions, rejecting project standards, and WP:ADMINACCT applies to some level, I am requesting that Pending changes reviewer ‎permissions be revoked from this user's account. Toddst1 (talk) 23:59, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi Toddst1. Please remember to notify any involved parties to a discussion at ANI that you are opening. I have taken care of the necessary notification of WikiPedant. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Already done. Toddst1 (talk) 00:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I missed that. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Since no red links are allowed and every entry is a blue link to an article, why is a source required? Ideally, yes, but WP:V has never said you must verify everything, only that it is possible to verify. Misplaced Pages is full of missing citations, after all. I see the Project and Essay, and I'm sure that is all good advice, but I'm not sure I want to bit strip someone for not following an essay. Have you had to revert anything they have accepted because it wasn't true? Is there an ongoing problem with him accepting edits that are clearly false? Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Dennis, there are a couple of points here:

1. This isn't the place to rehash this discussion. An RFC was opened and closed on the subject. I know a lot of folks who have been around a while have differing views, but this is what was decided - and it makes sense. The project had exempted themselves from a policy and we have a bunch of garbage in these articles as a result - and we're used to it. See #2 & #3.
2. Yes, there is a not-insignificant problem where events on the DOY pages are incorrect. There are a few WP:WikiGnomes that are spending a tremendous amount of time going through these problems. Dldnh (talk · contribs) is a great example of someone cleaning this mess up.
3. There is a broader problem where unsourced WP:DOB info appears on both the DOY page and the article page. That is why a blue link alone is not good enough. This problem is rampant. When it comes to living people, that is a serious problem. I've been spending a fair amount of time cleaning this up myself. This is why I proposed the wording on Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Days_of_the_year#Style be changed.
4. The bigger problem IMHO is WP:ADMINACCT. When someone is given advanced privileges, they are held to standards accordingly. When someone with advanced privileges is asked in good faith to use them more in line with agreed-upon standards and to enforce a policy, the answer shouldn't be along the lines of "You're harassing me. You're disruptive. Get off my talk page and stay off" which is what we have here. I know this one better than most, and one of the reasons I am a former admin.

Toddst1 (talk) 02:41, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• You haven't really addressed my concerns. You are using the basis for action an RFC at a WikiProject, about the wording of an essay. While that may accurately summarize "best practices", there is no policy that I am aware of to bolster your claim. In fact, our policy on verification and our WP:Editing policy seem to contradict that essay. I'm not going to bit strip someone based on that essay, regardless of how many RFCs were had to formulate it, as I don't see a pattern of abuse or policy/guideline violation. Of course, you are free to challenge any entry by removing it (although I wouldn't just go after a single person's edits, for obvious reason), or go find a source yourself (which is probably the most productive option), but I simply don't see a clear POLICY violation that justifies the drastic action of removing someone's advanced bit. Quite literally, it would be an abuse for me to remove his bit without being able to show a policy violation, and my action would be subject to the same WP:adminacct you quote. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 03:23, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• I agree with Dennis Brown, sorry. I don't see a persistent pattern of misuse here (), rather than following the (previous) longstanding practice (in Years/Days of the year and other similar projects). Looking back at the RfC, the consensus of that discussion isn't really clear IMO despite of the closing statement, but I agree it's not appropriate to discuss them here. If we were to enforce that particular result of the RfC moving forward, I am thinking along the lines of "encouraging best practice" (WP:DOYSTYLE) would probably be better in the long term, instead of imposing them as required mandatory practice (which is what's happening here, I think). Alex Shih (talk) 06:22, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• I'm also with Dennis Brown here. The RFC established a proper style for a finished list; that we are aiming for having every entry with proper citations. That's fine, but to refuse to accept needed work because it isn't perfect seems unreasonable, Misplaced Pages articles are built in collaboration, and built over time, and we accept good-faith additions by people which are on the path towards our end goals. If something is verifiable but simply lacks a source, it's quite allowed to add the source yourself or to leave it for such a time that someone else can add a source later. Demanding that the article must be in its finished state from EVERY edit is beyond unreasonable, and I don't believe that is what the RFC authorized. --Jayron32 13:12, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• I am in agreement with Dennis Brown, Jayron32 and Alex Shih above. Seems too drastic a step based on an essay that does not carry the weight of a policy or guideline. Net positive to not remove WikiPedant's bit. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 17:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Phone numbers on talk pages

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Can an admin delete these revisions , and maybe block the IP . Adding supposedly his phone number to my talk page, along with others. WikiVirusC 01:09, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

•  Done Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:13, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks WikiVirusC 01:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

@WikiVirus: In the future, see WP:Oversight. They're super quick and it avoids any potential Streisand effect. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Dennis Brown just popping by to say thanks for the revdels. Mr rnddude (talk) 01:21, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks to Ian.thomson, he got out ahead of me cleaning up the rest of those. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:32, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

You got a head start and did a lot more than me, though. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

User:Lavinsky0

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We have what appears to be a new pro-Communist POV editor in User:Lavinsky0. Their POV edits have been reverted by several editors (including myself) and ClueBot. A visit from an admin might be a good idea. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:09, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Everything i edited is fact checked and backed up by direct evidence, including changes on maoism, which is internatinally recognized by the revolutionary parties as the third and superior stage of marxism as marxism-leninism-maoism, it is backed up by evidence not only from the Communist Party of India but also from the Communist Part of Italy and the Communist Part of Peru, it is based on the concrete analysis of the concrete reality therefore it is scientific. I would like it if you stopped undoing my edits because you are a liberal idealist. Thank you very much, have a good night. PS: The only editors who undid my work were you and the automated bot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lavinsky0 (talk • contribs) 03:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Just for the record, the other editor was CFred. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:28, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Nice, and your personal attack here just earned you a 36 hour block. I was going to try and talk to you first and offer to help you, but your response here makes it clear that doing so would be to no avail. ~Oshwah~ 03:22, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Overall i objectively improved on the articles i edited, therefore there are no reasons for undoing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lavinsky0 (talk • contribs) 03:18, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Beyond My Ken - I've been keeping an eye on this user's edits as well, and had someone else not beaten me to it (I believe it was ClueBot), I would have also been a user that reverted one of their changes. Their disruptive editing (borderline edit warring), as well as their personal attack here calling you a "liberal idealist", has earned this user a 36 hour block. I'm hoping that they'll be more willing to discuss their changes and let us help them after their block expires. ~Oshwah~ 03:25, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Oshwah with respect, the day "liberal idealist" becomes a personal attack (I mean "bad thing") is the day I quit society. Mr rnddude (talk) 03:44, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Mr rnddude - Hey now, I'm just saying... the way that the account used that term in their response above tells me clearly that they meant that to be a personal jab at Beyond My Ken by saying that this is why he reverted his changes, can't be neutral, and what-not. You could replace that with a term that you'd deem a personal attack and it would most likely fit perfectly - that's my point ;-). ~Oshwah~ 03:50, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Mr rnddude: That's the way I saw it as well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:53, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I know it was meant to be a personal jab and certainly not intended as a compliment. My point is I'd wear that insult like a badge. :) Mr rnddude (talk) 03:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I am proud also to be a liberal idealist, even if that makes me a harsh douche canoe.104.163.148.25 (talk) 04:50, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

If you honestly think that a Maoist political party is in any way a reliable source for an assertion that Maoism is the highest form of communist thought, then this might not be the project for you. Lankiveil 03:22, 16 February 2018 (UTC).

Well, after all, this is an editor who thought that

The cult of personality is a reactionary theory based on idealistic conceptions that assumes the masses are dumb and can't think by themselves.

was appropriate encyclopedic writing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:37, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out what they mean about Mao being a superior stage of Communism. Is it because Mao murdered fewer people than Stalin did? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:42, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I was under the impression that he contributed to the deaths of many millions more than Stalin did. Mr rnddude (talk) 03:44, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Maybe that's why it's superior? Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:46, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Make sense. The best method of eradication will necessarily be the superior one. Mr rnddude (talk) 03:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

SeytX

User:SeytX is, well, out of control in terms of the number of AfD's they have started. I came across them when replying to this Afd on Krishna Reddy (artist), who happens to have terrific sources. If an admin could pull the plug on this activity I believe it would be a positive move.104.163.148.25 (talk) 04:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I review his page and found that all of the sources were dead. And that was not notable. so i request fo AFD. SeytX (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:33, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I just checked all (both) of the references that were in place when you sent it to AFD, and neither of them were dead. Additionally, dead references is not a reason for deletion; there is no requirement that references be online in their original location, when archives are available. --Nat Gertler (talk) 06:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

If the ref goes dead you can apply a 'linkrot template I believe. And you need to reread notability. And maybe stop tagging for AfD. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 06:53, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

@SetyX: definitely should not start any more AfDs for at least 7 days, to allow people to process the ones he's nominated. I'll do a pass through all of these tomorrow. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:06, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• I placed Keep rationales on 5 of these AfDs yesterday: these had all been initiated (among others) in a 22 minute period - which is far less time than it took me to do the necessary source searches to develop and present my rationale on each. I was examining solely those on elected Nepalese politicians - investigating the others in the spate of quick-fire nominations would take yet more time. This seems disproportionate effort. The duration and quality of the nominator's WP:BEFORE investigations is dubious (some of the subjects gained media coverage as recently as the December 2017 elections): would a procedural close en masse be appropriate? AllyD (talk) 08:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, User:SeytX, I'm also a little concerned with your AFD creation speed here, as well as the very short and (at times) ambiguous rationales that you've been providing in each one. The number of AfD's you've been creating as an account that's only two weeks old is off-the-charts above average, and all but one of the AFD's you created that now have votes are so far set to unanimously close as keep. Obviously, given your high rate of creation and the number of AFD I see are being voted to be "kept" - you may need to slow down and make sure you've reviewed the relevant policies and guidelines and understand them thoroughly first :-) ~Oshwah~ 10:25, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• SeytX, you were asked on your page to withdraw the AdF nominations and replied you would "look after" it, some time ago, and well before you posted here, but you have not done so. How about it?

Another matter: SeytX has also created a large number of non-viable articles that have been speedied; admins can see them here. After I'd myself speedied Rahul Singh ( Entrepreneur), a piece of blatant promotion ("He is a credible, Like Minded, successful PR coach for Businesses and Entrepreneurs across globe", etc) for which there is also an AfD, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Rahul Singh ( Entrepreneur), I thought it time to ask on SeytX's page if they were being paid for creating these articles. Please respond to me either on your page or here, SeytX. Any paid editing must be disclosed, see WP:PAID. Bishonen | talk 11:42, 16 February 2018 (UTC).

• I always find new users immediately hopping onto AfD to be very suspicious, especially at this rate. The two pages created also seemed puffy and promotional. My spidy sense calls for a CU on this user. @Bbb23 and There'sNoTime: !dave 11:51, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Bbb23's findings aside, I would remind the editor that sending bulk articles to AFD that clearly shouldn't be sent, can lead to a topic ban if it continues. It is a type of disruptive editing that the community is quick to act on. You need to use WP:BEFORE, before you nominate. Anyone nominating articles faster than one per 4 or 5 minutes is probably doing so too hastily. It takes that long just to do a minimal good faith search for sources. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:07, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• If this is not a sockpuppet then it's a clueless nationalist. Do we really need to hang around on this? I propose WP:NOTHERE. Guy (Help!) 12:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• I am taking back all the Afds which i have created if its creating problem. Sorry for the disturbance. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeytX (talk • contribs) 15:52, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Even if CU is clear I support a minimum of a TBAN on AfD. My AGF is strained by the feeling the AfD's might be cover for WP:PAID. At two weeks, I did not know what AfD was. A NOTHERE block works as well 'case of the CSD's SHort of that a BAN on new article creation. Many pages need copy editing and sources and other improvements. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Problem with references

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Hi. Checking the references of the article octamoxin We've found out that there are two references to articles that we can't verify.

• The first one is Levy J, Michel-Ber E (1966). "". Thérapie (in French). 21 (4): 929–45. PMID 5925088."
• The second one is Gayral L, Stern H, Puyuelo R (1966). "". Thérapie (in French). 21 (5): 1183–90. PMID 5976767

The problem is that these two articles have nothing to do with the withdrawal of the drug, but with "indications for use", one; and "tests on mice", the other.

Also, the reference to Dictionary of Pharmacological+Agents only mentions the drug, not the withdrawal from market.

At the same time, the link to medicinescomplete.com is broken; even using webarchive and the webcache from Google we couldn't find info.

The structure of both references (Gayral & Levy) it's the same as the ones presented in Pubmed, as if copypasted. We conclude that the author, Vanished 45kd09la13, just copied the info of the "cite" and pasted into the Wiki. He didn't show the exact page of the cite passage. We can't find the original french articles.

Thank you. StormBringer (talk) 04:41, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I think this probably belongs on the talk page of the article, or failing resolution there, on the reliable sources noticeboard. or you could just be WP:BOLD and fix it yourself. This board is for asking administrators to intervene in serious issues of editor conduct. Hope this helps. 104.163.148.25 (talk) 04:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

"We?" What is going on here with the words We and We've? Shared account usage? Though probably, I could be wrong. I'm usually 90% wrong. Maybe I just need to eat more carrots. Bugs, help me out here.Yoshi24517 _{Very Busy} 06:14, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Mayhap there is a mouse in their pocket? That pocket, there! going back to bed now as I am becoming silly -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 06:57, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Apparent behavioral problems at List of Death in Paradise episodes

Persistent disruptive editing - after they have been blocked twice - by user Kaos Edward Nick (talk · contribs). They probably contributed as IP user 24.65.54.59 (talk · contribs) during the time the registered username was blocked. --Richard-DIP (talk) 05:49, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

The edits made yesterday by Kaos Edward Nick here just look to be simple table color changes and the creation of a column - these don't look disruptive to me at all. What's the user been doing that's been disruptive? ~Oshwah~ 09:57, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

The edits for which they were blocked were unsourced speculation about shows and casts in 2020 - they haven't repeated that as far as I can see since the last block, although they're starting to push the boundary on some topics. Acroterion (talk) 13:02, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

They added unsourced speculative air dates for season 8 (diff), removed the "References" section header and reflist tag (diff), added a speculative synopsis (episode 8 of season 7 has not aired yet) (diff), added a speculative announcement (episode 8 of season 7 has not aired yet) (diff) --Richard-DIP (talk) 13:20, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Richard's username, Richard-DIP, and his contributions hint at WP:OWNership issues. There may be enough trout to share in this report. Cabayi (talk) 13:27, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Outing at ]]

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Prompt removal and oversight of ] is needed, presumably along with some additional administrative action. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Blockinated and revdel performed by Oshwah. Guy (Help!) 09:34, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Dr. Fleischman - I've redacted all traces to the URL from both the page you provided here, as well as this page, and I'll escalate everything from there and get it taken care of for you. Next time, please request suppression by contacting the Oversight team directly (directions are on the top of the Misplaced Pages page) - not publicly... And definitely don't provide links to pages or diffs that need oversight publicly either! ;-) ~Oshwah~ 09:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Feedback on block

Please see the second AIV report here. Contribs can be seen here. Any objections to the block? --NeilN 13:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Good block. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:00, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

That's a pretty damn high-level rangeblock; you've essentially blocked an entire chunk of a cell-phone carrier's users from accessing Misplaced Pages for the sake of shutting down two trolls that happen to use that service. I'm not saying I oppose, and I'm not saying I support, I'm just saying... --Jayron32 14:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• I looked at about 50 contribs from the past month and about 10% were decent (nothing particularly good). The other 90% were vandalism, disruption, or people playing around. --NeilN 14:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, blocking wide ranges like this can naturally look scary, but the edits from this range are almost entirely disruptive and the risk for collateral damage is very low. Situations like these are what make the block of a range (even wide ones) necessary. Do I like doing it? Of course not. Do I try my best to avoid doing it if other solutions exist? Of course. But sometimes this is what's needed, too... ~Oshwah~ 14:20, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Looks good to me - go for it. ~Oshwah~ 14:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Good block IMO, though a tough call. Thanks for bringing it for discussion. It's a large range, yes, but that shouldn't stop us from preventing disruption. It's anon-only so anyone with an account on that range should still be able to edit (right?) but should you have blocked account creation? Ivanvector (/_Edits) 14:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

No, thanks for pointing that out. Fixed. --NeilN 14:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I wasn't meaning to criticize, I was actually wondering if that was a thing that we should do. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 14:53, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I think it's fine, but I would really like to see it reduced to a week. I'm not seeing any major disruption, just run of the mill vandalism, and I don't feel comfortable with a month long range block that wide of a mobile carrier for what is likely high school kids messing around. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:31, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

@TonyBallioni: Go through the contribs for a couple months. If you feel a week long block will stem all that disruption then feel free to reduce. --NeilN 14:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• The range has been used by an LTA (filing cases against checkusers) and another sockmaster. There isn't much collateral damage for anon editing. Two regular users use the range and they would be collateral if this were a hardblock. Blocking account creation isn't necessarily a bad thing here. Longer block likely to be more effective than naught.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:49, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

• Given the CU data above, I have no objections now. I was just looking at the high school type stuff that could be seen publicly, and didn't see any attempts for shorter blocks. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:55, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Hmmm. Something worth watching is the /41 range because the CU logs show that as a range of concern. The Whois record shows a /44 but three different CUs have checked the /41.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:06, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Well, if the /44 block doesn't stop everything and a /41 would, it can be easily extended if the need presents itself. ~Oshwah~ 15:11, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Comment I've been through a few and they also seem to be wireless broadband in small geographical area. Blocks like this may unfortunately be necessary to stop LTA, as LTA users will probably be given a new IP address every time they log on: blocking single IPs or even /64 connections are liable to be next to useless. The only alternative is to these sort of blocks is semi-protecting all articles affected, but if a lot of different articles are affected then that falls down too. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 15:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Sad editor comparing WP:MED to ISIS

User:Davieinspain added a bunch of links to a bunch of links to a website as an IP, then when they were removed, came back as a registered editor to add some more. When people removed them and explained that they're inappropriate, he is leaving messages on their talk pages like:

• "Velella--you're lame and you know it."
• "Sigh. Another Misplaced Pages "editor" who doesn't see the forest for the trees. Repeat: you're lame."
• "Well, "thanks" for the kind message. I see you've been here 10 years, and you love that you're an OG, and all. But to say my external links are advertising shows you've lost your way. Look, it's clear you love being a "patroller". What a title! Ah, the power. Very KGB. Very Gestapo. Very thought police. Yet I checked the guidelines for links and putting up an external link to a Stanford University site on research is hardly advertising or promotion. It's funny to me though...statistically, someday you or someone close to you will get HIV, cancer or Alzheimers. Then you'll ask yourself, should I rather have been such a fanatical "patroller," or actually helped the world of disease research through a single link on Misplaced Pages? Your sick friend will answer that for you..."
• "HA! I expected this from you Natureium; I saw your large list of edits--often contested, btw--and foresaw you would intrude sooner than later. I was correct. Look, I get it. You in fact proved my KGB/Gestapo analogy: You are a closely knit group of hyper-sensitive "patrollers." You tolerate no dissension nor can see outside the box. Deleting anything remotely considered un-fawning makes it easier to avoid the larger issue and shields you from any kind of dialogue. What's amusing to me is that I really have no dog in the fight. I live in Spain. I am not part of the Stanford project whose links I posted. Just trying to add to the world of information out there, and disease research. So your deletion of a comments means nothing to me--except to confirm my stated observation that indeed, you are like members of ISIS: constituents of a small, fanatical group who demand utter obedience to the organization that they serve, and destroy all references to that which they disagree. ISIS uses explosives; you use the delete key. Power, even in the most banal form such as a Misplaced Pages patroller, is so intoxicating. Now run along, there are more heretics and infidels to slay!"

As far as I can tell, there are no members of the KBG or ISIS in WP:MED, so could someone do something about this? Natureium (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

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