Talk:Argentine rock: Difference between revisions

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	::: Please abstain or you will be banned. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:50, 18 February 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->		::: Please abstain or you will be banned. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:50, 18 February 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	:::: Don't try to remove part of my old messages, it can be easily recovered from the talk page history. Assuming ] is important on wikipedia and please, stop trying to turn the situation around or your IP will be banned. (and yes, internationality can be argued) --] <sup>(])</sup> 12:37, 18 February 2018 (UTC)		:::: Don't try to remove part of my old messages, it can be easily recovered from the talk page history. Assuming ] is important on wikipedia and please, ] or your IP will be banned. (and yes, internationality can be argued) --] <sup>(])</sup> 12:37, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

	== Proposed merge with ] ==		== Proposed merge with ] ==

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Argentine rock was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 29, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Original Talk Correspondence

The standard for Argentina-related articles is 'Argentine'. The usual (less-favoured) alternative is Argentinian. Therefore this page should be moved to Argentine rock. Mtiedemann 09:37, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Moved Argentine rock to Argentine rock music -- a bit more specific that way ;) Jmax- 10:42, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Nationality rock is the standard format. Plase don't move pages with standard names without consulting it on the Talk page. Mariano(t/c) 12:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Way to many red links.--Jersey Devil 04:56, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Revamping this article

I could expand this article a very great deal. But it would mean pretty much braking up what has been written here. I do not know what the etiquette to follow is in this case. What is written here is mostly good, a couple of things need correction, but in order for me to expand this article much more I would need completely change what is here now, and I'm skiddish of doing this to something someone else or others wrote. Any advice would be appreciated. The dugout 19:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I will be working in the next few days to create a few specific articles. I also will create at least stubs to some of the red inks on this page. Eventually I will expand some of those too. It will just take a little bit, so give me slack. The dugout 06:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

No problem! Just don't forget to add them to the Notice Noard. good wiking, Mariano(t/c) 08:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Really a Book or is it a Sound Recording?

I'm attempting to clean up problematic ISBNs and have come across the following from this article:

Polimeni, Carlos (2000). Demasiado Artista. Sony Discos. ISBN 037628369424.

As I understand things, if this item has an ISBN, it is an invalid ISBN because it is too long. My hunch, though, is that Sony Discos produces sound recordings, so this item may not have an ISBN at all. Might you be more clever than me at figuring out what is going on here? I'd like to find either a valid ISBN that goes with this book, or better identifying information so if this is a CD or DVD or something an average reader would be able to locate the source. Thanks for any help you can give. Kind Regards, Keesiewonder 11:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Update: I am not getting anywhere with this. I am looking for a proper citation for this quote from the article:

For example, ] got together with his old ] partner ] and recorded ''"Tango 4"'', whose name accurately suggests the style of the album.<ref name="polimeni">{{cite book |first= Carlos |last=Polimeni |year=2000 |title=Demasiado Artista |publisher=Sony Discos |ISBN=037628369424 {{Please check ISBN|037628369424 (too long)}}}}</ref>

In addition to my own looking high and low for this "book," I exchanged correspondence with a journalist who has written about Argentine rock who also was not able to confirm the book's title, author, ISBN, etc. I'd like to get to the bottom of this, so with the current, unverifiable citation above for safe keeping, I will next edit the above fact to one needing a reference ... hoping answers will turn up. I know there are people named Carlos Polimeni who show up on the web and on sound recordings ... but I have not been able to connect the article's facts with a book authored by a Carlos Polimeni. Maybe I need CD jackets? Keesiewonder 11:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Mystery solved (maybe). I restored the reference to Carlos Polimeni's Demasiado Artista ('Too Much Artist'), without an ISBN, and included a link to an excerpt that I found on the web. The book is not in the Argentine National Library, but other works of Polimeni are found there. The funny code that was too long to be an ISBN is the UPC code of a reissue collection of Charly Garcia's music, called 'Obras Cumbres Vol. 1', released in 2000 by Sony Discos, that has nothing to do with Polimeni's book. I found it just by Googling for the number part of the bogus ISBN. The point of the Polimeni reference is to justify the statement that the name Tango 4 'accurately suggests the style of the album', which hopefully it does, though the book used is (evidently) hard to find. The album 'Tango V.4' appeared in 1990, so there is no point in citing the Sony Discos record as a reference. Its name means 'Greatest Hits Vol. 1', and it in any case does not contain all the songs from 'Tango V.4'. There is a lengthy discography in Charly Garcia, though without any code numbers, which could be a blessing, given how hard it is to get them right. EdJohnston 05:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

This works for me! Since there is no ISBN to cause anyone problems in the article. I saw the web link a week or so ago that you've used as a citation, and in part, didn't go with it myself since there is no date or a source for the quotations on the page, such as the one from Garcia. (Maybe its something Garcia said in an interview or that was printed in a newspaper or on a recording jacket?) I am not yet convinced that Polimeni wrote a book about which Garcia has commented. Polimeni has certainly written something (music, lyrics) that Garcia speaks about. No worries; this one is off our list for now! Thanks! Keesiewonder 11:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Fleeting afterthought ... so, where does the 2000 come from in the existing citation? Keesiewonder 11:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The 'Obras Cumbras Vol. 1' recording DID come out in 2000, so maybe that is the source of the date. I agree that using an unverifiable book as a reference is not too desirable, so I would not object if you want to take it out. But the number of citations of the possible book is large enough that we now know it's not a record. EdJohnston 14:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Polimeni is certainly a rock author, because of 'Bailando sobre los escombros: Historia critica del rock latinoamericano', ISBN 9507862986, available from Amazon. EdJohnston 14:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi EdJ, I do not see any reason to make any changes in our citation of interest. I am not yet following your reasoning in this statement: "But the number of citations of the possible book is large enough that we now know it's not a record." But, I'm more than happy to move on! Thanks for your input on this one! Keesiewonder 23:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice!

Very good article, congrats to the Argentinians. With a few pics and a little work I would nominate it for the main page. Che q articulo tan boludo! xD--ometzit<col> 02:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

As the author of the article I fully understand this is only above 'first draft' quality. I did extensive research as you can see, so I'm happy and satisfied with the results. I think to take the next leap the article needs the following:

1. More 'book' sources along side the internet sources. The only reason I have not done so is just lack of time, as some of the books needed are somewhat scarce to find and demand a trip to a city library and a good deal of time to find and research and cite.

2. As mentioned, pictures. But lets be honest about this: it is utterly impossible to expect normal people like me to understand the incredible legalese of posting pictures in Misplaced Pages. Obviously we don't want to copyright infringe, but Misplaced Pages cannot expect me or most other people to figure out what picture (besides Misplaced Pages Commons), can go and which cannot. In fact the laws vary depending on countries and languages too, it's just waaaay to complicated. Something needs to be done there to help us.

3. I'm not a proffessional writer, therefore I also understand the article may be in some ways bias towards the main concept or specific bands. It is my hope someome with equal or preferably superior writing skills to myself and knowledge in this subject will correct any such bias to make the article as disspasionate and impartial as possible.

If we can do those three things, I think we can make this article feature material. The dugout 05:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Please ! some native English speaker, take a look at this page and correct the mispellings and typos. PPPPLLLLEASE!!! It's a shame. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.8.159.18 (talk) 19:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Winds and war of change, learn history!

England didnt recapture the Falklands Islands so stop writing that, the task forced liberated the islands. Margret Thatcher was an asshole but she was democratically elected. Galtieri (also an asshole) wasnt democratically elected. Therefore got say recaptured. When the British Empire invaded the Falklands a long time ago they did it under "Rule of Conquest", back in the day it was ok to kick other countries in the balls, but that was the 19th century. 1982 is a bit different. yo respect to todos tos mertos. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.171.30.26 (talk • contribs).

Please, take a look at 1833 invasion of the Falkland Islands. I will re-phrase it anyway. --Mariano(t/c) 13:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

"Rule of Conquest" is not a legal justification. is not different from "Rule of Ethnic Cleansing" to justify the Jew Holocaust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.132.109.103 (talk) 13:33, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Failed GA

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
It is stable.
It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
Overall:
a Pass/Fail:

I've failed this article for GA status. Here are some things to improve before nominating again. The prose needs work. Sentences should not start with "and" ("And for the first time..."). The tense often shifts: "In 1964...Argentina is shaken", "The definitive breakthrough...would be", "the music would continue its development" (italics added to show use of present and journalistic conditional). There are also several one-sentence paragraphs. Many of the dates that should be linked aren't (March 24, 1976; March 26, 1988; December 21, 1988). The referencing also needs a lot of work. Misplaced Pages articles are not reliable sources. Citations should contain all of the following information (as appropriate): author, link and title, publisher, date of publication, retrieval date for link. "(Spanish)" should be replaced with {{es icon}}. There are many statements that, without references, are original research (e.g. "While Beatlesque, their sound was not an ordinary or rough copy"). Image:Sui Generis.jpg needs a detailed fair use rationale. The copyright status of Image:Luca prodan.jpg needs to be clarified (an image can't be both PD and CC). Between the prose and the referencing, this needs a lot of work before it can reach GA. ShadowHalo 12:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sui Generis.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Biassed article and non-reliable sources

This article has serious neutrality problems, some dead urls, sources that do not support what is contained in the article and dubious or non-reliable sources. Specially, the Argentine Invasion section (a term not supported by the references) contains a lot of promotional text. Defining Argentine rock as a worldwide phenomenon, as the very best Spanish-language scene among others controversial sentences. I'm still surprised how this could pass the neutrality check in the 'good article revision'. I Blame the fact that the reviewer probably could not speak Spanish so he could not be able to check the sources. --Batamamma 23:36, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

No place of the article "defines Argentine rock as a worldwide phenomenon", neither explicitly or implicitly.

Batamamma attitude is common anti argentine xenophobia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.20.134.199 (talk) 06:21, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Are you freaking kidding me? There is no "Argentine xenophobia" but a lot of fakely referenced stuff. Argentine rock being "commercially successful overseas" or considered an "international genre" (usage of a non-English language doesn't mean it is a genre by itself) are not just biassed but also absolutely false. Personal opinions are not valid on wikipedia, all the information must be supported by external sources (and no matter how you get triggered about it).

By the way, I'll bring you some examples ('cause obviously you didn't bother to read the whole article):

- "It would create some of the most enjoyable and brilliant albums in the history of the music, acclaimed nationally and by progressive rock fans worldwide"

- "Despite its 'underground' status, it has fervent followers in Chile, Uruguay, Mexico and a plethora of countries worldwide"

- "The Cadillacs, with their ska-rock with a heavy Latin infusion, turned instant rock stars across Latin America and eventually worldwide."

- "The band would continue their worldwide success well into the 1990s, and evolving their musical sounds unlike almost any other Rock en Español band".

Claiming these sentences (among others that I removed) don't define Argentine rock as a worldwide phenomenon really lands on the scope of fanboyism. --Batamamma 21:13, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

The internationality cannot be argued. International doesn't means worldwide, and no place in the article "defines it as a worldwide phenomenon", so you are just vandalizing the article.

Please abstain or you will be banned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.20.179.249 (talk) 02:50, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Don't try to remove part of my old messages, it can be easily recovered from the talk page history. Assuming good faith is important on wikipedia and please, stop trying to turn the situation around or your IP will be banned. (and yes, internationality can be argued) --Batamamma 12:37, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Origins of Argentine Rock

I'm unsure what needs to be merged to the parent article, however it is clear that this does duplicate information already present in the main article and wouldn't make for a good content fork on its own. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 18:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

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