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Revision as of 16:26, 19 February 2018

User:Neutralhomer/TopMenu User talk:Neutralhomer/TalkHeader

Capitalization of branding/slogans

Hey, NeutralHomer! I have a question to ask you.

It has been brought to my attention in the new year that this is now a thing: "brands and slogans are not proper names of anything, nor titles of major works, so per WP:MOS they don't get title case nor italics".

This has been brought up by User:Jeh (if this doesn't link correctly, I apologize), and I'm not sure what to make of it. So...we're not allowed to capitalize any word in the slogan or branding (such as "Sound" in the station name or "Throwback" in a slogan) anymore because the MOS rules state that it's incorrect, yet (in my opinion) looks sloppy and unprofessional, like how a 2nd grader would write it? What do you make of this, and will there be any consensus regarding it?

(Alex jirgens (talk) 23:12, 18 February 2018 (UTC))

Not sure why Neutralhomer is considered an authority here but... as these are often list items, the first word should be capitalized as usual (but if the first thing in the slogan is a number, the number "uses that up" - this could be addressed by writing the number out in words). Otherwise they're just spoken phrases, they should go in quotes to indicate that they're exact quotes, and there is no support in WP:MOS to write them in title case (or boldface). Italics are used to emphasize a word or phrase in a context of surrounding non-italicized words or phrases, but that is not the case in a slogan that's quoted in an infobox. As elsewhere in Misplaced Pages, italics in them should be used, and reserved, for foreign-language words. What looks "sloppy and unprofessional" to you does not override MOS. Jeh (talk) 01:04, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Alex jirgens and Jeh: I'm the "authority" (not really) because I have expertise in radio station articles. We have always put brandings and slogans in quotes and italics with proper capitalization where necessary in the infobox per WP:NMEDIA. NMEDIA is in full compliance with MOS. Yes, sloppy and unprofessional does override MOS as this is an encyclopedia, not something written by 2nd graders. MOS sets us to standards and standards also say we write with some form of clarity and professionalism. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:25 on February 19, 2018 (UTC)

WP:NMEDIA is "an explanatory supplement to the Misplaced Pages:Notability guideline". I can find nothing at WP:NMEDIA (or WP:GNG for that matter) that mentions anything about boldface, italics, title case, or even infoboxes. Per MOS, proper capitalization is to not use title case other than for titles of major works. (We don't even use title case for Misplaced Pages articles!) Can you cite anything that says otherwise for radio station slogans or branding? Jeh (talk) 02:14, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jeh: Just the thousands of articles that are already created like this per NMEDIA and WPRS standards. If you wish to change them all, you would need community support. We are talking about italics and capitalization on slogans on radio station pages. Basically this is a content war. One that needs to be stopped and Jeh, you need to stop and move on. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:40 on February 19, 2018 (UTC)

As I have already pointed out, WP:NMEDIA offers no "standard" here, not even a suggestion - it's about notability, it has nothing to do with character formatting.

WP:WPRS doesn't mention this issue either -- other than at WP:WikiProject_Radio_Stations#Introduction, a suggestion for the formatting of the lede sentence, which clearly shows a station branding in quotes and not in italics or boldface; only one word after the initial "The" so it is not an example either way for title case.

So I do not at all understand how you can say "per NMEDIA and NPRS standards". The standards you are pointing to don't seem to exist.

The infobox template documentation doesn't say anything on this point either.

In short I can find nothing that establishes a WP standard for these things... other than MOS. You offer an WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument, but reality is that yet other stuff exists too; one can find many, many examples of branding and slogans in literally all possible combinations of boldface, italic, quoted or not, title case or not (a few use all upper case), etc. I think that is "sloppy and unprofessional".

Consistency would be good, and what we should be consistent with is MOS. Italics and title case are primarily for titles of major works. Slogans and monikers are not that. Jeh (talk) 03:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Regarding "something written by 2nd graders", that is the impression given by English prose wherein various Words, often Nouns but actually with No Consistency, are capitalized just because the writer thinks that's how we write English. They're of course wrong. Jeh (talk) 04:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jeh: I think you are taking a very literal view and read of MOS. But, since you basically are of the "I don't want to hear an opposing view other than mine" camp, you also won't drop it and move on, I'm going to try something different. I'm going to offer a WP:TAKEITUPWITHTHECOMMUNITYANDOFFMYTALKPAGE arguement. Seriously, it's a freakin' slogan dude, come on! WP:TROUT for wasting my time. WP:AN is that way. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:33 on February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Er, I'm not the one who brought it to your page. (And thank you for acknowledging that a literal read of MOS supports my position.) But point taken. Jeh (talk) 05:56, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jeh: No, this is far too literal. This is literal to the point of being disruptive. This is literal to the point of making a point. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 16:26 on February 19, 2018 (UTC)