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{{out}} Yeah, I object to it, which is why I reverted it. Why did I revert it? Well, it sucked. It didn't improve the article in pretty many '''''any''''' respect, along the lines that Grayfell posted above.}}] (]) 23:04, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
{{out}} Yeah, I object to it, which is why I reverted it. Why did I revert it? Well, it sucked. It didn't improve the article in pretty many '''''any''''' respect, along the lines that Grayfell posted above.}}] (]) 23:04, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
:As others have said, I think that it's doing too much in one edit on a really controversial article... but with that said, it might be worth breaking up the ideas in it and discussing each one individually. I think a conspiracy theory section might be useful, although we'd have to discuss where to put it. And as for the connection between conspiracy theories and memes in the Alt-Right, discusses it in a really useful way, although ideally we'd want more than that. That source in particular seems like the ideal sort of thing we'd look for, though, in that it goes into depth on how prominent Alt-Right accounts push conspiracy theories into the mainstream. It's worth noting that many scholars and journalists seem to use the word "meme" to refer to any pushed hashtag, which is probably slightly differently than many of us use it. Either way, this article should definitely say more about Pizzagate, which has been a major point of coverage and research when it comes to the Alt-Right. --] (]) 00:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
:As others have said, I think that it's doing too much in one edit on a really controversial article... but with that said, it might be worth breaking up the ideas in it and discussing each one individually. I think a conspiracy theory section might be useful, although we'd have to discuss where to put it. And as for the connection between conspiracy theories and memes in the Alt-Right, discusses it in a really useful way, although ideally we'd want more than that. That source in particular seems like the ideal sort of thing we'd look for, though, in that it goes into depth on how prominent Alt-Right accounts push conspiracy theories into the mainstream. It's worth noting that many scholars and journalists seem to use the word "meme" to refer to any pushed hashtag, which is probably slightly differently than many of us use it. Either way, this article should definitely say more about Pizzagate, which has been a major point of coverage and research when it comes to the Alt-Right. --] (]) 00:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
== Alt Left as the 'Left' of the Alt Right ==
Alt Left and Alternative Left are also terms used to describe: (i). the left-wing of the Alt Right and (ii). a leftist meta-political approach to white nationalism. For sources on this, see: , , . There is also a strong 'hipster racist' culture within the broader current of white nationalism that could be described as falling under the Alt Left sensibility: see for instance, . This, I appreciate, is all quite fringe and obscure and merits only a brief paragraph, but it is important and may grow in importance as white nationalism evolves and tries to broader its appeal. I can draft a relatively brief paragraph and post it here for consideration and possible inclusion by an accredited editor, but I await agreement on this. I can't just go ahead and post something as the article itself is 'semi-locked' and inaccessible to me. Thank you.
Revision as of 03:19, 22 April 2018
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MotherJones and Breitbart Dispute the Ideology
The article offers no source for, Bannon described Breitbart as 'the platform for the alt-right', with the goal of promoting the ideology. The quote is properly sourced from the MotherJones article but there is nothing to substantiate the claim that Bannon or Breitbart have a goal of promoting the ideology; certainly not the ideology as defined by MotherJones or this Misplaced Pages article. Indeed, on 16-Aug-2017 in response to the MotherJones article, Tony Lee at Breitbart flatly denied that the website is alt-right and offered up a Harvard/MIT study as proof. Lee goes on to explain that Posner and Bannon had different definitions of alt-right ideology when Bannon noted “we’re the platform for the alt-right." Lee writes:
Bannon’s “alt-right” comment indicates he apparently thought it consisted mainly of computer gamers and blue-collar voters who hated the GOP brand associated with George W. Bush’s brand of “conservatism” or “Bushism” that sought nation-building adventures abroad while allowing crony capitalism to fester in D.C.
Never has been, never will be. Nor will it ever be a propaganda outlet for the far right, the alt-right, or neo-Nazis, try as they might to make it into one. Nope, our policies makes sure of that, which is why we follow them as strictly as we possible can. And one of our policies is that article talk pages are WP:NOTAFORUM for general discussion, they exist to help improve the article. So, with that in mind, what are your suggestions for improving the article, aside from, say, copying text from Breitbart wholesale into it? Do you have any real suggestions, or are you just going to spout right-wing nonsense? Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:33, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Conservatism sidebar
Should the conservatism sidebar be listed in this article? The alt-right predominately hates conservatism to my knowledge, it's more reactionary than anything. FlowerRoad (talk) 01:30, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
I wouldn't really call that a change, I would say that it was many changes lumped together in a single edit. That makes it pretty hard to answer the question. Some of these changes seem very helpful, but at a glance I would object to the creation of additional very short subsections. The article should be an overview of the larger movement, and this expansion is a step in the wrong direction. Grayfell (talk) 22:07, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Would you be okay with a conspiracy theory section + Pizzagate picture? That was the main "meat" of the edit anyway. I thought that the images would also clarify the text. For the subsections themselves, it is not something I would strongly object to. FlowerRoad (talk) 22:34, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Why are conspiracy theories being tied to memes? What's the connection? There are many sources connecting the alt-right to multiple conspiracy theories, but the two sources used seem very weak for supporting an entire subsection. I'm not saying they aren't reliable, just not necessarily WP:DUE based on context. The Hatewatch article barely mentions the alt-right, and the Hyperallergic article doesn't mention "alt-right" at all, instead using "far-right". It also predates the QAnon stuff.
The picture could be appropriate once the article provides enough well-sourced context to explain it. Adding a photo to support a single-sentence subsection is lopsided, to put it mildly. Without this context, it is more confusing than informative. Grayfell (talk) 22:58, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I object to it, which is why I reverted it. Why did I revert it? Well, it sucked. It didn't improve the article in pretty many any respect, along the lines that Grayfell posted above.}}
As others have said, I think that it's doing too much in one edit on a really controversial article... but with that said, it might be worth breaking up the ideas in it and discussing each one individually. I think a conspiracy theory section might be useful, although we'd have to discuss where to put it. And as for the connection between conspiracy theories and memes in the Alt-Right, this source discusses it in a really useful way, although ideally we'd want more than that. That source in particular seems like the ideal sort of thing we'd look for, though, in that it goes into depth on how prominent Alt-Right accounts push conspiracy theories into the mainstream. It's worth noting that many scholars and journalists seem to use the word "meme" to refer to any pushed hashtag, which is probably slightly differently than many of us use it. Either way, this article should definitely say more about Pizzagate, which has been a major point of coverage and research when it comes to the Alt-Right. --Aquillion (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Alt Left as the 'Left' of the Alt Right
Alt Left and Alternative Left are also terms used to describe: (i). the left-wing of the Alt Right and (ii). a leftist meta-political approach to white nationalism. For sources on this, see: , , . There is also a strong 'hipster racist' culture within the broader current of white nationalism that could be described as falling under the Alt Left sensibility: see for instance, . This, I appreciate, is all quite fringe and obscure and merits only a brief paragraph, but it is important and may grow in importance as white nationalism evolves and tries to broader its appeal. I can draft a relatively brief paragraph and post it here for consideration and possible inclusion by an accredited editor, but I await agreement on this. I can't just go ahead and post something as the article itself is 'semi-locked' and inaccessible to me. Thank you.