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A minor 're-correction'.

Hi!

I reverted your recent edit in Cretan hieroglyphs, and solved the problem with the use of an adjective instead of the noun in a simpler manner (eliminating a redirect). I assume that your spelling heiro- instead of hiero- was just a typo, and therefore made no remark about this on the talk page; if I'm wrong, feel free to change back and/or to discuss spelling variants at e. g. Talk:Hieroglyph.

Best, JoergenB (talk) 17:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Good job. Yup, just a typo. Morgan Leigh | Talk 06:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Citation tags

Hello, I just reverted the citation needed tags you placed in the ritual article. In each of the subsections there is one citation placed at the end of the paragraph for that paragraph. Putting the same citation at the end of each sentence in a paragraph really doesn't seem to make much sense, since all of these characteristics of ritual come from one chapter of one book. Hope you agree. Schrauwers (talk) 11:51, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Greetings,

Actually I don't agree :) I have replied to this post on the talk page of the article. Morgan Leigh | Talk 00:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Names, dates and relationships of Golden Dawn members by Sally Davis

Hello,

I wondered why you had not removed the link to the "Roll Call" of the Golden Dawn on the same basis? It quotes no sources at all.

Could you advise how Ms. Davis should improve her material to meet your reliability standards for the Golden Dawn article?

Thanks Wrighrp (talk) 16:24, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Greetings,

I didn't delete the roll call because I didn't notice it. But, you are correct that it doesn't meet the reliable sources criteria either. They both should be either removed or replaced with one published somewhere that does.

You can find all the information about reliable sources straight from the horses mouth right here.

Please sign your posts with four tildes right at the end so I can know who I am talking to. :) Morgan Leigh | Talk 11:25, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt response.

I did think you might have some specific points about Ms. Davis work?

She sourced and cited the source as being directly from the Golden Dawn Members rolls held by the Masonic Archive in London where she has done considerable research - is that not "reliable" when it comes to a list of Golden Dawn members?

Perhaps we do not understand the guidance on reliable sources? Wrighrp (talk) 16:24, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Greetings,

Although the information on the page provides a cited source it is not possible to ascertain with any reliability who the author of the page is. To meet the reliable sources criteron the page needs to be verifable as actually belonging to the person who claims to have written it and it needs to also be verifable that the author has some claim to being a reliable source on this sbject. If Ms. Davis is attached to an institution then using the page provided by that institution is an excellent way of overcoming this problem.

When replying to posts on talk pages it is normal practice to indent your response to make it easier to follow the conversation. To do this you just add a colon at the beginning of each paragraph. If you are replying to a reply then you need to add one more colon then the previous person's reply has. Although it is policy to not edit other people's posts, because this is my talk page and in order to help you see how this works, I have taken the liberty of editing your reply so that it indents. You can see the colons in the page source when you go into edit mode. Morgan Leigh | Talk 02:45, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the style advice. Ms. Davis is an independent researcher, although she does have a BA in History from London University and worked at the Institute of Archaeology, UCL in the 80's. We will do further investigation as to how any material can actually be verified as belonging to the person who claims to have written it. Perhaps we can follow you as an example? It would seem, based on what you say, that no independent researcher can ever have their material used as a Wikideidia secondary source, which surely can't be right? Thanks Wrighrp (talk) 14:31, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Further to the above, I now understand that self-published material by anyone who is not an "acknowledged expert" in a subject can never be a reliable secondary source under Misplaced Pages rules. On the other hand, the members list of the Golden Dawn really could do with some improvement - the list in "The Golden Dawn Companion" by R.A. Gilbert having minor errors and omissions. I'd like to ask you if it would be appropriate to include a link to Ms. Davis's work, with suitable disclaimers, on the "talk" page for the Golden Dawn, until some more "reliable" source becomes available which can have a link on the "main" page? Thanks Wrighrp (talk) 19:09, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I have now placed a link to Ms. Davis' work on the Talk page for the H.O.G.D. as proposed. Please edit it as you see fit to make it useful. Thanks for your help so far. Wrighrp (talk) 16:41, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about that. I haven't had time to look at it yet as I am traveling. I will be back on the 22nd and will look at it then. Morgan Leigh | Talk 11:39, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

RFC query

Hi mate! I've left you a note at Talk:Magick with regard to the RFC. I tried not to sound patronising (sorry if I did), but I was genuinely confused by your "vote" and them comment. It was almost as if you meant "strong support", but you clearly have concerns with the article so I'm keen to flesh those out. What I've proposed seems to be exactly what you're calling for so is there something else you think should be resolved at the same time? Stalwart111 10:43, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Fixed that. :) Morgan Leigh | Talk 10:50, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

I thought it was odd! All good then! Stalwart111 12:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hope to bump into you elsewhere.Schrauwers (talk) 20:48, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject Poultry

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	u r probably the only person on wiki who is ever so nice i have never met someone as nice as you on wiki before so i wanna give u a barnstar for ur specialness United kingdoms my home (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in pseudoscience and fringe science. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Misplaced Pages's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. Tgeorgescu (talk) 10:02, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

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Mainstream encyclopedia

Misplaced Pages is mainly a venue for expressing views supported by established science and peer-reviewed scholarship (and perhaps reputable press, for certain subjects). Editors are supposed to understand this, to wish this and be competent at doing this.

Supporting mainstream science and mainstream scholarship is, therefore, required of all editors. Failure to respect mainstream science leads to the loss of disputes, and may result in being blocked and eventually banned. Strong adherence to mainstream science and mainstream scholarship is what made Misplaced Pages one of the greatest websites. So, dissent from mainstream science and mainstream scholarship will be perceived as an attack upon Misplaced Pages itself. If you want to win a dispute, your claims must be backed by reputable science or peer-reviewed scholarship. If you cannot honestly do that, then you must refrain from making a particular claim. And remember, Misplaced Pages is just a mirror, mainstream science and mainstream scholarship exist outside of Misplaced Pages and cannot be changed through editing Misplaced Pages, Misplaced Pages merely reflects them. So if you want to change science/scholarship, you have to be a scientist or a scholar; Misplaced Pages is not the venue for revising scientific opinion. Tgeorgescu (talk) 06:00, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I concur with Tgeorgescu on this. Morgan Leigh, might I suggest that you read WP:1AM? I believe that you will benefit greatly from following the links on that page. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:51, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I'd like you to consider from WP:1AM "This editor has been around a long time, has made many edits, has no recent blocks, and generally gets along with everyone. In this case you should seriously reexamine your own position, especially if you are a fairly new editor. Work with the lone holdout and try to figure out why you are in such an unusual situation." Being the only one arguing for something doesn't make one wrong. Morgan Leigh | Talk 11:17, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

I answered this on Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, where you posted the exact same words. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

October 2018

Your recent editing history at Parapsychology shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Johnuniq (talk) 07:05, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

You are overacting. Reverting edits for valid reasons is not edit warring, unless you want to defend "Remove anti science nonsense" as a valid reason to remove information cited with peer reviewed journals. Morgan Leigh | Talk 21:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

There is no "I am allowed to edit war because I am right" exception to our policy. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

That is not what I said. Reverting edits to correct where people break the rules of wikipedia is not edit warring. Morgan Leigh | Talk 06:57, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes it is. Read WP:EW: "Users who engage in edit wars risk being blocked or even banned. An editor who repeatedly restores his or her preferred version is edit warring, regardless of whether their edits were justifiable: "But my edits were right, so it wasn't edit warring" is no defense."

WP:3RRNO lists all reverts that are exempt from the edit-warring policy. "Reverting edits to correct where people break the rules of Misplaced Pages" is not on the list. Not the mention the fact that so far you have failed to quote the actual rule that you claim was broken. Is it the "nobody is allowed to disagree with Morgan Leigh" rule? Is it the "Morgan Leigh is special and doesn't have to follow the rules everyone else follows" rule? Or is it the "just claim that a clear case of edit warring "isn't edit warring" and hope nobody notices" rule? --Guy Macon (talk) 11:00, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

The reason I made that revert is clearly mentioned in the page WP:3RRNO where it says "Reverting to enforce certain overriding policies is not considered edit warring." Removing cited content with the edit summary of "Remove anti science nonsense" is a violation of Misplaced Pages:Verifiability.

You are clearly very emotional about this and perhaps you need to just take a break from this for a bit. Morgan Leigh | Talk 22:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

You are correct that my edsum was poor. I should have said “anti science bollocks”. Roxy, in the middle. wooF 14:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

• Morgan Leigh - as an admin I'm telling you as clearly as I can that the exemption you are trying to use to justify edit warring will not fly if you are reported at WP:3RR.--Jezebel's Ponyo 22:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I thank you for your input, but I have to assure you that I am not trying to justify edit warring. I don't think you are assuming good faith. I reverted an edit that removed cited material with a spurious comment. I do not think this is outside of wikipedia's rules as we are admonished to not remove cited content, but rather to add balance. This is clearly not happening at parapsychology at the moment. Maybe I shouldn't have made the following revert, even though I believe the claim of the reverter is unjustified, but one revert is not edit warring. Editors at parapsychology have continually removed cited content, even content from peer reviewed academic journals. Surely this is just as deserving of your attention as my one revert? Morgan Leigh | Talk 23:11, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Believe me, I almost got blocked for edit warring in order to apply policy. Whatever is not clearly vandalism, BLP violation or such and can reasonably be construed as a content dispute, is no exemption from being blocked for edit warring. Tgeorgescu (talk) 02:16, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Expanding a bit on the above excellent comment, the exact exceptions are all listed at WP:3RRNO, and anyone who reverts while claiming one of the exceptions must say in the edit summary exactly which of the exceptions at WP:3RRNO is being claimed. Examples: "clear copyright violation" or "clear copyright violation (see talk page)".

The right way to deal with someone violating a Misplaced Pages policy or guideline is to revert ONCE with a clear explanation of what policy is being violated, and if the material is reintroduced, report the policy violation at WP:ANI. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

@Guy Macon: I was told ANI is only for serious and persistent violations, not for one time errors of a newbie. Tgeorgescu (talk) 17:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

That's true for the kinds of edit disputes you or I are likely to end up having with other editors, because we both try to follow Wiki[pedia's policies and guidelines. For us (not for Morgan Leigh), it would probably be fine to follow this procedure:

1. Editor X makes an edit that violated a policy, but is not listed at WP:3RRNO.
2. We revert with a clear edit summary that explains exactly what policy was violated
3. Editor X reverts.
4. We post a warning on Editor X's talk page. In almost all cases, there is a template for that at WP:USETEMP.
5. Optionally, we revert a second time. If we do, we post a message on the article talk p[age, explaining in detail why. Or we can just post the message without reverting. In most cases someone else will revert soon after we post it.
6. Case 1: Someone reverts editor X and Editor X reverts whoever reverted him. We follow the advice at Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What to do if you see edit-warring behavior.
7. Case 2: Nobody reverts editor X. We wait at least 24 hours to see if he respond on the article talk page. If he doesn't respond, we post a "no response, so I am reverting" message on the article talk page, revert, and treat it as Case 1.

That's for us. Morgan Leigh is different from us in three ways. He habitually reverts instead of discussing. he thinks that what he is doing isn't edit warring. he fails to make it clear what policies he thinks are being violated (likely because he misunderstand the other policies just as badly as he misunderstands the edit warring policy).

Given those three things, he is headed towards ANI anyway, and so he might as well post the ANI report himself and try to paint his actions in a positive way. Or he can wait until someone else reports him and he gets blocked, and complain about how unfair it all is. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:15, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

You thought wrong.

On Talk:Parapsychology you wrote:

"Have you considered that perhaps it is you skeptics that are the true believers? You appear to believe quite fervently that parapsychology is not science, despite wikipedia findings and rules calling for balance. You seem to have a quite fundamentalist position on expunging all parapsychologists from wikipedia. How is it that you can see the mote in my eye but not the beam in your own? I thought the goal was to give a balanced view."

You thought wrong. It is most definitely NOT our goal to "give a balanced view".

The actual rule is at Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight. Read it carefully, keeping in mind that pretty much everyone is telling you that the rules don't say what you think they say.

There once was a drunk driver who was driving the wrong way on the freeway. Upon hearing on the radio (over the honking horns) that there was a drunk driver who was driving the wrong way on the freeway, he peered through his windshield, noticed all of the headlights heading toward him, and exclaimed "My God! There are DOZENS of them!!"

We don't present a "balanced view" between those who believe the holocaust never happened and those who do. We don't present a "balanced view" between those who believe that the earth is flat and those who think it is a sphere. And we don't present a "balanced view" between those who believe that parapsychology is a science and those who think that it is pseudoscience.

As Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/FAQ clearly states, "Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy certainly does not state, or imply, that we should or must "give equal validity" to minority (sometimes pseudoscientific) views. It does state that we must not take a stand on them as encyclopedia writers, but that does not stop us from describing the majority views as such and using the words of reliable sources to present strong criticisms. Fairly explaining the arguments against a pseudoscientific theory or verifiably describing the moral repugnance that people feel toward a notion is fully permitted by NPOV." --Guy Macon (talk) 23:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages has already ruled "here that "In addition to mainstream science which generally ignores or does not consider the paranormal worthy of investigation, there is a scientific discipline of parapsychology which studies psychic phenomena in a serious scientific way, and popular culture concepts which have a following either in historical or contemporary popular culture, but are not taken seriously or investigated even by parapsychology. A fourth phenomenon is skeptical groups and individuals devoted to debunking." Moreover I am not asking for equal weight. I am asking for some mention. There are currently no less than nineteen citations disparaging parapsychology in the lede alone. I am trying to add at least some for balance. Morgan Leigh | Talk 01:16, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Now that several arbitrators have responded to my request for clarification,

"Arbitrator Premeditated Chaos: "Using the scientific method to study something doesn't automatically make it a legitimate branch of science. I could make any number of studies using the scientific method (hypothesis, testing, analysis of results) about my cat's ability to predict my week by meowing. They can be as technically correct as anything, but that doesn't make meowology a real science. The statement in the ArbCom case wasn't wrong; there are people who do attempt actual studies of parapsychological phenomena. The fact that those people do that, and that ArbCom remarked on it in 2007, doesn't invalidate the consensus of the overall scientific community that parapsychology is pseudoscience."

Arbitrator Worm That Turned: "1) The quote is taken out of context, which starts by saying that mainstream science does not include the paranormal. 2) Saying that there scientific methods are being used does not stop an area from being a pseudo-science. 3) Consensus (and the real world) can change over such a long period and Misplaced Pages does not have to remain fixed based on one finding 11 years ago. 4) Most importantly, content decisions are made by the community and by consensus for a reason - Arbcom does not decide on content issues."

Arbitrator Callanecc: "There are a number elements to consider here, the first is PMC's point, the second is Worm's point that the quote has been taken out of context, the third that some common sense needs to applied to a decision made more than 11 years ago, the third is that ArbCom doesn't, and can't, make rule on what content should be in articles, the fourth is that, as Worm notes, the comment has been taken out of context, and the fifth is that this is a finding of fact (in the case) not a remedy so is not binding on anything anyway."

I believe that it is now perfectly clear that:

• Your previous "Misplaced Pages has already ruled" statement was wrong.

• Arbcom does not issue rulings on content issues.

• It is the opinion (not ruling) of the arbitration committee that parapsychology is pseudoscience and not real science.

• Your quote from the 11-year-old arbitration request was out of context.

I await your retraction. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:46, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree I shouldn't have said "ruled" but instead should have said "found".

I do not agree that my quote was taken out of context. You abridged it in your request but I included the entire quote, as can be seen here.

I agree that the rules of arbcom have changed since the finding I mentioned and that it now does not rule on content. This does not change the fact that it used to, and when it did its findings were exactly as I mentioned, as arbitrator Worm That Turned said "The firm concept of 'Arbcom does not rule on content' is more recent than that ruling so lines have been blurred in the past.".

Given that arbcom does not now rule on content any opinions the arbitrators may have expressed on content are irrelevant. As arbitrator BU Rob13 said "Content issues are decided by the community, and ArbCom can't step in here to decide the content dispute other than to say that relevant policies and guidelines apply (such as WP:V, WP:RS, WP:FRINGE)".

I also note that in response to your comment "If Morgan Leigh now agrees that arbcom does not issue rulings on content disputes, then the point is indeed moot, but I would like to see him explicitly state that rather than assuming it and then watching him continue to claim that arbcom has ruled in favor of his preferred content and having to re-file this clarification request.", arbitrator Worm That Turned said "@Guy Macon: as much as it would be nice for Morgan Leigh to acknowledge our points of view, you asked the question, we clarified, he changed his RfC. As far as I'm concerned, that should be the end of it with regards to the ARCA." Morgan Leigh | Talk 08:32, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Notice of Arbitration Committee Clarification Request

You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Clarification request: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Paranormal and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide may be of use.

Thanks, --Guy Macon (talk) 03:58, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

The clarification request has been archived at Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/Paranormal#Clarification request: Paranormal (October 2018). For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 19:31, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

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Hello, Morgan Leigh. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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You were given notice of the DS on pseudoscience earlier. Please do be mindful. Jytdog (talk) 21:26, 26 November 2018 (UTC)