Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 23:46, 18 November 2006

Welcome!

Hello, Sikandarji, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --Etimbo | Talk 11:34, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Kipchaks move

Can you please explain on Talk:Kipchaks why you moved that article from Kypchaks to Kipchaks? --Joy 12:50, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

History of Central Asia

I have listed History of Central Asia on Peer review in the hope of eventually bringing it up to Featured article status. I note that you have done some good work in this area, and to that article in particular. Do you have any views on the article or any suggested improvements? - SimonP 01:40, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Maps

Mr. Sikandarji! Do you have historical maps of Central Asia in XIX century? I would like to illustrate page about Kokhand khanate with this map.Greenvert 09:58, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much!-Greenvert 09:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Kalmyk people

If you have time, can you take a look at the discussion? Some Kalmyk POV-pushers seem to discard the word "Kalmyk" as a Turkic loan and advocate renaming the article to "Oyrat". Also, they deny the Mongolian ethnicity of the Kalmyks. --Ghirla | talk 07:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Minor edits

Remember to mark your edits as minor only when they genuinely are (see Misplaced Pages:Minor edit). "The rule of thumb is that an edit of a page that is spelling corrections, formatting, and minor rearranging of text should be flagged as a 'minor edit'." --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:35, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

India related links

	Links for Wikipedians interested in India content
Newcomers: Welcome kit | Register: Indian Wikipedians | Network: Noticeboard (WP:INWNB) Browse: India | Open tasks | Deletions Contribute content: Wikiportal India - Indian current events (WP:INCE) India collaboration of the week (WP:INCOTW) - Category adoptions

You may find the above links to be of some help, welcome!! --Gurubrahma 15:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you very much for the cleanup job you have done on babur - as well as fixing my appalling gramma you added pertinent info, such as the "sign of the assumption of sovereignty" - That explains the impotance, whereas I had left it assuming people knew that - Which was stupid of me! Thank you again! --Irishpunktom\ 17:20, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

• Woah - Farsi, Hindi and Urdu! - And English.. I am impressed! I actually began to expand the article on Babur after I was reading books on Timur, and his direct line.. After I get to finish this accurately I'm gonna try and have a go expanding the rest of the Timurid members, starting with Khalil Sultan, and if you can help (Looking at your studies are, i'm hoping you will) it would be appreciated --Irishpunktom\ 20:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Please pay attention

Thank you for your editing of Bibi-Khanym Mosque page. I recently made new contributions to the pages

• Gur-e Amir
• Samanid mausoleum
• Lyab-i Khauz.
• Kyzyl Kum

I have a favour to ask of you. Would you be so kind to pay attention to them too Jabez 12:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention... from Jabez

Thank you for your attention and editing of my works! I highly appreciate your help. I completely trust your experience and knowledge, therefore you can move the name of Lyab-i Khauz. Just few minutes ago I finished new page that is related to the history of Tashkent its name is Gates of Tashkent Jabez 10:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Спасибо за Ваш труд.

Спасибо огромное за Вашу работу. Мне очень понравилось, как тщательно Вы привели в порядок статью Lyab-i Hauz. Не знаю, право, чем я могу быть полезным для Вас, но я Ваш должник! Надеюсь на Вашу неоценимую поддержку в будущем. Дмитрий. Jabez 05:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yet again!

Another brilliant job at babur! Thank you again! --Irishpunktom\ 21:10, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Babur

Hey, this may help with your citing problems: Misplaced Pages:Citing sources/example style. If you have any other questions please just ask. Many thanks, Highway 13:32, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, I like the changes you've made. --Irishpunktom\ 11:00, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations for the edit in the article Babur. The article sounds good to me. Tajik 15:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi!

Hi! Yeah, this kinda comments just incite prople. I have been previously incited in this way, and also I have incited others in this way! It happens, you know. I guess this anon, and the prvious anon who used to push the same POV are same, as their IPs are quite close! Can you point out other PoVs in the article Subhash Chandra Bose? if yes, please discuss in the talk page of the article. I have a desire to put it into peer review, not now, may be after 3 or 4 months. Also, I request you to please go through, if you have time, the article Kolkata which is currently undergoing a peer review. Thanks a lot. Bye.--Dwaipayanc 18:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

You previously told me that you were rather bordering on an anti-bose thinking. And precisely that is why I asked you to see the article. Many things will seem PoV to you which may escape the eyes of me or others, who are rather fond of Bose. I myself have not minutely read the article. Will do so soon. Thanks for your comments. Maybe I will contact you in future when further changes, if any, are made to the article - for review again! Thanks a lot.Bye.--Dwaipayanc 05:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

On Subhas Bose

Hi! I found some interesting stuff. Sadly, the content is no more on the web. It's now in cached form. Try this If it does not work,then type "subhas bose nazi" in Google (all file format) search. The 5th return is what I am talking about. Click the "cache" link. The site is andaman.org. Here it is stated clearly that Bose was a fascist, and became anti-democratic in later years. How can we use this cached link as reference in the page? Any idea? BTW, the article is available in Internet archive in this form. Bye.--Dwaipayanc 05:52, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Until we get book reference, we can use it. I would like to request you to write some lines based on that reference and add it to the Bose article, citing the reference.( I think the snapshot pages from the Internet archive can easily be given as reference, and, people can click to those pages.) Then I will see what you have added, and if you have added something that seems NPoV. In that way, I guess, the comment will become balanced. Since, the reference clearly tells and reasons why Bose was a fascist but not a Nazi, you should write that in the article. So, you start adding these stuffs to the article, I will see it later. Bye! --Dwaipayanc 07:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Further on Bose

In the Introductory note by George Weber of Subhas Chandra Bose 1897-1945 by Prof. Satadru Sen I see this :"For someone brought up on the British version of events (as I was), to land at Calcutta airport and find it named after Subhas Chandra Bose is a bit of a shock - akin perhaps to landing at Berlin airport and finding it named after Adolf Hitler." I myself had really no idea of this image of Bose in England. It becomes quite clear to me now why the article Subhash Chandra Bose is unacceptable to many! Naturally, the article would seem NPoV. On the contrary, the Indian image is almost pole apart!

I have never been to your user page before today when I saw that you are an Oxford academic specialising in history. I guess you can avail of many references if you want to. If you have time, why don't you go ahead and restructure the "Political views" section? Of course, with citing references. Thanks and bye.--Dwaipayanc 08:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

If you have any trouble formatting the references, just follow the format I inserted it th e"In Germany" section. You can copy paste it. Do not forget the <ref> and </ref> guiding the actual refernce. Bye.--Dwaipayanc 08:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

It is nor wrong to point out alternative. But please give reference, I mean not reference that India won independence by the alternative. But please provide reference to your comment that "...many Indians would argue is too high, given that there were alterative means for pressing for Independence which ultimately proved effective."

This is because, I now have the reference (which you refuted by saying that Atlee did not know much about India, which may be true, considering you know much more than I of history) that really the pressure created by Gandhi did not have much to do with the independence. You know, I myself do not believe this Atlee's words. That is why I have not discussed this reference in the article. But if you want to stick on to your comment, I shall refute that with that reference in the body of the article.

Please do not take ir as a war between us. What I want to point out that the article is already full of un-referenced comments. We just want to make the article a good, referenced article. Please cooperate. Thanks.Regards.--Dwaipayanc 10:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I have erased that portion again. But have not erased it totally. If you click edit , you will see the comment betwwen two <!-- and --> sign. If you come up with a good reference, please fell free to reinsert your comment in the article. Thanks.--Dwaipayanc 10:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow

Exactly that was what I was expecting from an Oxford academic. Bombarding a layman with lots of great stuff!! Thanks a lot for your cooperation. And a request, when you come up with reference, please also point out some remarks showing that the decision of Bose of allying Axis might be out of pragmatism as well.(You know the sentiments!!!)

Well, that Gandhi and INC was the main factor behind 1947 is beyond any doubt, no one perhaps need any reference for that. But in this article on Bose, I suddenly found that "Political view" was becoming too critical of Bose. And if it goes on in this way, we'll have to use references that indicate that Gandhi was not that instrumental, despite I don't believe that.

Rageding some of your points:

"a) most Indians (and particularly the Congress leadership of the time) would not have wanted to see an Axis victory in World War II - I think it unlikely that many would dispute this"

• Frankly speaking, I do not have any idea. I have not read much about congress leaders (except, of course, Gandhi, Nehru, Patel etc). And I doubt if the rural mass of India were at all concerned with the Axis and Allied stuffs. Yes, I think , the educated urbans would not have wanted to see an Axis victory. But one cannot be sure. I do not know (you may know from your work) if the racial pollicies of the Nazis were de-classified by then and were available for the newspapers. However, the revolutionary factions of freedom fighters can be guessed to be not exactly unhappy with the German rising against the British. In a similar situation of WW1, Indian revolutionaries planned to stage a revolt against the british with German help. If you ask me, or any Indian now, nobody would have liked to see an Axis victory.

"b) that Indian politicians at the time did not have to make a straight choice between supporting the Axis and thus bringing about Indian Independence, or resigning themselves to the continuation of British rule indefinitely in the wake of Allied Victory"

• Probably yes. I do not know, yet again! But I guess making a straight choice would have accelerated independence. From today's viewpoint, it hardly matters if independence came 4 or 5 years earlier. But in 1939, nobody could have been dead sure that a particular policy would be best to get independence. And to act according to the time would have been a good choice. Bose made a choice that was quite radical, while INC made a choice that was somewhat calm, and, to some extent, compromising, though now it may appear more moral and perhaps more ideologically appealing. But if you were to put yourself in the shoes of a man with a bit revolutionary thinking of those days, perhaps you also would have chosen a more musculine decision.

"Gandhi and the Congress had simply made the political and human cost of staying in India far too high for the British, and that was what they had intended from the beginning."

• Yes. But again, perhaps being a bit more stern when the time was ripe could have hastened freedom. Anyway, no point discussing what would or could have happened.

Now I want to let you know another point which I have often seen creeping into the discussions, especially when those directly affected by the partition (some of my relatives, for example) argue in the similar topic which we are now talking about. I do not know if historians have also argued in the topic. I have seen people directly accusing Gandhi (and INC) for partition and their personal woes (just like some political parties in present India). And these aged persons often dream a un-partitioned India with Subhas Bose as the first head of state! Now, these are perhaps laymen, unaware of the pros and cons. But, people are the material that form the history. I wonder why this sentiment? Do you have any idea as a historian?

Our talks are becoming quite long! May I propose to shift some of our discussion to email? My email is contactdc@gmail.com. You can mail me if you wish.Thanks, Bye.--Dwaipayanc 11:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Humayun

Greetings. I have made a series of contributions to the Humayun article, and was hoping you could take a look and make any fixes or additions you may feel are needed. Thanks. --Irishpunktom\ 15:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

New pages about Uzbekistan

Hello, I recently started two more pages Aidar-Kul Lake, Sarmishsay, and just today Sheihantaur. I hope you will find time for visiting them. Thank you sincerely Jabez 12:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Presidency

Thanks a lot for the info. I did not know the fact. Could you comment if just moving the article under the new name would suffice? I think , better still, you can start an article Bengal Presidency, then the content of this Calcutta Presidency will be shifted to that page as necessary and with necessary edits. Thanks a lot.--Dwaipayanc 09:24, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh! I just got your message! Please start the article Bengal Presidency. This Calcutta Presidency can be merged with that, not in toto, but as needed. You should be able to get hold of some reference materials to start the article. It need not be large. In fact, I think old Britannica would prove to be a good source.Bye.--Dwaipayanc 09:26, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:Subhas Chandra Bose & The Bengal Presidency

In fact, I was seeing some of the changes you made in the Bose article, though I did not exactly go through those. A lot of long references I saw. Regarding Bengal Presidency , I made necessary changes in the Kolkata article (history) section and linked to Bengal Presidency as needed. Ir is a wonderful and very informative article. Thank you for taking the effort to write the article. Bye.--Dwaipayanc 17:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Subhas Talk

Hi! I have added a "Ro Do" list in Bose talk page. Please see if you can help. The list is not on priority basis, neither it has any deadline! It is not exhaustive either. I just thought of some areas where improvements can be done. There may be more areas. Thank you.--Dwaipayanc 18:58, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Robert Clive

Thanks loads for your work on the article about Clive. It seriously needs attention. --Richard Clegg 23:10, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Subhash

Of course. Emilie Schenkl must be mentioned in teh article. Thanks for pointing out the miss. In fact, pre-WW2 days overall less represented. A tough task ahead is to summarise the "Political View" section, it's too large. A virgin reader won't be interested in all this. If necessaey, a daughter article on Political views of Subhash Chandra Bose will have to be created to discuss in detail. Thanks.

P.S. Have you read Jinnah lately? It is on Featured Articles Candidature now. Read it, very good article. Bye.--Dwaipayanc 09:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

St Lawrence Ground

Hello Sikandarji,

I just reverted your change of St Lawrence Ground to St. Lawrence Ground. I admire your pedantry — Misplaced Pages needs more people who care about things like that. But in this case, I think you're wrong. In British (although not American) English, it's conventional not to use a full stop if the last letter of the abbreviation is the same as the last letter of the word. E.g., "Dr Fred Smith" but "Prof. Fred Smith".

Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Have a look at American and British English differences#Punctuation for a reference to this convention. Stephen Turner (Talk) 12:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow! That was a fantastic thing to learn! This punctuation mark. Bye the way, Sikandarji, Kolkata is a featured article candidate now. You can leave some comment, if you wish to. You might be most interested in the "History". Unfortunately, the history is in extreme summary form! Please see if you point out some important/notable stuff has been left out.--Dwaipayanc 19:29, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

You will be glad to know I was thinking in the same line regarding the black hole! But I was not sure due to my lack of knowledge. Thanks for the input. Hope the article is otherwise able to satisfy a lerned historian. Bye!--Dwaipayanc 19:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Ya it's quite late here! I am going to sleep soon. Yes, I read your edits in History of Kolkata. Though I have noticed that you had made changes in Clive, I could not manage to read the article. It will be great if you comment on Kolkata in the featured article candidate page. Once Kolkata is through, I will try to spare some energy in Bose. However, I do not have much source, so cannot really add to what is already there. Will concentrate on summarising! Bye. Thanks a lot.--Dwaipayanc 20:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the effort you are putting in History of Kolkata.--Dwaipayan (talk) 09:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Indian Rebellion of 1857

Dear Sikandarji, I have just taken a look at the discussion page of this gentleman and at one of the pages where he carried a discussion. I suppose one could also call it a verbal amok-run. It is actually unbelievable how the gentleman in question conducts himself and what language, a lecturer in History at respected institutions as per his own statement, uses to discuss with people. It seems to be his favourite pastime to accuse people of other nationalities of being "nationalists", see e.g. Talk:World War II evacuation and expulsion. Nonetheless, I indeed was a bit surprised that you did not react to his changes. But I must admit, I also did not notice the changes at first glance. It would be nice, if you could also keep an eye on such uncalled-for, biased edits. I think, we have done a pretty good work in previous weeks and should not allow disruptive people to damage it. And no, I surely don't think that all Englishmen behave like this. I know many of them personally too well to get such an idea. Bye. --Raj 00:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Said

Thanks for clarification. I've been thinking over expanding that section myself, but you were faster. I'm not pretending to be an expert in literary studies, but perhaps the reason there isn't much on that issue in the article is that there isn't much to talk about in terms of his contributions. Of course, I may be entirely wrong. Another thing that still bothers me about that article is his characterization as "one of the most influential scholars" in the intro, which is unashamedly POV. Said is famous for Orientalism and politics, and this is what the intro must discuss, instead of giving warm, but POV and inane, quotes from obituaries. Pecher 13:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Edward Said

Hi Sikandarji,

I think your criticism of Edward Said is quite interesting. I don't blindly agree with his work, especially the way he focused exclusively in language, literature, symbols and images, as if the whole world wasn't anything else. Said could concentrate on the way an earthquake was covered by the media instead of in the earthquake itself. That sort of reductionism might find its origin in Foucault or in professional distortion and sometimes affected his ideas on colonialism. But whilst this discussion is academically and intellectually fertile, Weiner's libels are nothing but plain garbage. I'm trying to find a way to clearly separate such garbage from academic, sometimes harsh discussions Said had with other scholars. --Filius Rosadis 00:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Darjeeling

Hi! Could you please have a quick look of Darjeeling? Please give your suggestions in the article's talk page. This is for an internal review before moving to peer review. Thanks. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for the excellent addition of that quotation of Marquess of Zetland on the Transport in Darjeeling article. Also thanks for the review of Darjeeling you are doing. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

By the way, do you have that book? I mean the book by the Earl?--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:03, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

It would be great if you can dig up some historical information on the colonial schools of Darjeeling. They must have a nice history. Please also try for "Darjeeling Disaster". I have requested one wikipedoan who is soon going to Darjeeling for getting some photos, especially of the colonial architecture of the city and may be some cultural stuffs.

I have been to Darjeeling a few years back. It's really painful to see how the town has degraded. It seems like an extended Sealdah bazar. Everywhere people shouting and shopping. Only when you get out of the tourist hoipolloi, you get to see those beutiful houses, mostly Mock Tudor (I do not have any idea though, I read somewhere). I read that in Windemare Hotel, you can get some touch of the old Raj days. Kalimpong also has got some good architectural relics and evidences.

Now that you mention Glenary's...it's wonderful, isn't it? We also had breakfast there, but, as usual, missed the sunrise !! Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Kizilbash

Hello Sikandarji. I have done some writing in the "Kizilbash" article. Could you please have a look at it, since you seem to have good knowledge about Mughals, Safavids, and so forth. Your feedback would be really helpful. Thx Tajik 12:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I've added some info about the Kizilbash in Afghanistan. It's short, but for now, it's all I could find. What we need is some information about the Kizilbash in India and Pakistan. Do you have any sources? I am talking about the Kizilbash in Mughal India, for example Bayram Khan or all the Persian queens in India of whom many had Kizilbash mothers or fathers. Tajik 19:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

New changes in Bose

Hi! We have a new user in Subhas Chandra Bose, himself named SCBose, and evidently pole apart from you on point of view reagarding Netaji!! I have not read the exact edits though. Will do so when I get some time. I am a bit busy with Darjeeling. Looking for further addition from you in Darjeeling. Bye.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Re:Kolkata

Well, it was my fault. After I automatically removed that addition, I thought that I should have manually removed the addition, alongwith explanation.

Well, the only objection I had was the addition in Kolkata article. The content of that sentence was ok. Why should one be tempted to remove "British"? It is well-known that British did those things.

After your message, I again went through that edit, and I agre with you probably I should not have removed that line. Thanks. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 12:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Indian rebellion of 1857

To be fair the only edits I made were in the Mangal Pande section .. the other edits were by completely different people - especially about the caste profiles of the Bengal army etc. My only edits were to correct the name of the Jemadar who refused to restrain Mangal Pande (Ishwari Prasad, not Ishwari Pandey) - and a few other things there. srs 09:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

edit - thanks for the clarification. the comment mentioned something about my edit, reading it again i see what you mean. cheers. srs 12:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, made a couple more changes to the article - and added a page on the Enfield pattern of 1853 rifle-musket as well. Comments welcome on that.

Sart and Babur

Thanks for your comments. That "IP" is ignoring sources and is messing up the article with wrong information. As for Sart, the article looks fine to me. All important information has been added. Maybe you'll find some time to have a look at Kizilbash. I need some help about the part regarding Kizilbash influence in India.

Tajik 17:35, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

And please take also a look at Alisher Navoi ... the article looks good, but contains MANY spelling mistakes. Tajik 17:45, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Questions

Two questions, I asked Siddiqui this, but, I think you'ld also be inclined to read it.

1. Have you read On Late Style, and if so, what are your thoughts?
2. Do you want to help me kick off a "Hujum" article? - I think its relevent in light of recent events, and considering your work on Jadid, I'm guessing you'll know more than I! --Irishpunktom\ 14:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I guessed you wouldn't like him alright! I still thought you might read it, its just a collection of essays. I just ordered Northrops book yesterday, maybe I should have held off starting this till then! - Still though, your help is always appreciated! --Irishpunktom\ 10:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, certainly worth a purchase. i'm still waiting on Northrops book, Its coming in from the States, but its still slower than usual getting here. Also, can you please list all the problems you've had working with me on my Arb Com request, thank you. --Irishpunktom\ 13:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I just read what you have written, thank you! Go raibh maith agat --Irishpunktom\ 13:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Babur

Hi, I really do not understand the problems over stating a simple fact which is that Babur was a Turk, why is that guy getting so upset, I mean Babur wasn't a Persian, its hilarious to even mention he is.

If you look at the articles he contributes to nearly all of them are trying to push an anti-Turk POV and pretend that they don't exist its very childish and has no place in Misplaced Pages.

I have took the time to actually research these facts but he keeps deleting them because it doesn't meet his POV which should not be tolerated in Misplaced Pages, please read this and add a clear sentance because its quite confusing.

Babur himself calls himself a Turk, this is a primary Historical source, I have tried to add this paragraph which I feel is required but that member and his friends keep trying to delete it for absolutely no reason.

This bias has been shown countless times, for example trying to call Sarts and Tajiks, Persians, inflating and exagerating certain events and pretending other things didn't happen.

Please read this and find a place to put it in if you can.

Babur was a fourteenth generation descendant from the Turkic Barlas tribe which was originally Mongol. Over the generations they had become Turkified in language, manners and custom as they resided in Turkish areas. Therefore the Western term "Mughal" is a misnomer as Babur referred to himself as a Turk, drew most of his support from Turks, and the empire he founded was initially Turkish in character. It is clear, from Babur's writing that he considered himself a Turk. Although Babur was descended on his mother's side from Chingiz Khan's second son, Chaghatai, it is clear that this Mongol lineage meant less to him than his paternal ancestry which linked him with the great Turkish conqueror, Timur.

About Timur

Arnold Toynbee, one of the most distinguished modern historians, called Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah ("Introduction to History") "undoubtedly the greatest work of its kind that has ever yet been created by any mind in any time or place."

Here is what Ibn Khaldun wrote,

"You know how the power of the Arabs was established when they became united in their religion in following their Prophet. As for the Turks ... in their group solidarity, no king on earth can be compared with them, not Chosroes nor Caesar nor Alexander nor Nebuchadnezzar."

This relates to source I give in the Babur paragraph

S. A. M. Adshead. "Tamerlane and the Global Arsenal, 1370-1405" from his Central Asia in World History, Chapter 5

It was in this unstable world that Temur Barlas built up his political machine. He was born in 1336, not far from Samarkand, the son of a lesser chief of the Barlas obogh. The Barlas were one of a group of five or six ex-Mongol, now Turkish, oboghs or pseudo oboghs which provided the four qarac beys or regents who constituted an informal council of state with or against the khans. The Barlas held the area between the Oxus and the Jaxartes around Samarkand. The Qaraunas and the Arlat held the middle Oxus and points south into Khorasan and Afghan Turkestan.......

The following passage, drawn from Guy Le Strange's 1928 translation of Gonzalez de Clavijo's Spanish text

On a June morning in the year 1404, a party of Spaniards on horseback crossed the frontier between Armenia and Persia and headed for the nearby city of Khoy, in the Persian province of Azerbaijan. The group's leaders, Ruy Gonzalez de Clavijo, Friar Alfonso Paez de Santa Maria, and Gomez de Salazar, were the ambassadors of King Henry III of Castile and Leon - an uncle of Portugal's Prince Henry the Navigator and grandfather of Queen Isabella I, Columbus' patron

Tamerlane, a Turk of the Barlas clan. Perhaps the Mamluk envoy Manglay Bugay, probably of Turkish origin, interpreted for his Spanish traveling companions.

In Western sources before the technological age, they didn't bother researching what people actually were, a Britannica 1911 edition article didn't actually research what Timur was, there was no difference between Mongol and Turk in those days and little information regarding these differences.

Most striking is that Ibn Khaldun wrote that about him as Ibn Khaldun actually met him.

Regards

--Johnstevens5 14:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Peer review

Hi! I put Darjeeling on peer review. Check it out and comment as u feel necessary. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Johnleemk | Talk 10:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Ooty

OK, I'll largely accept what you say about the name (though 'no one uses it' is an exaggeration, the question is usage in print). Actually I compared the totals of Udagamandalam & Udhagamandalam agaisnt Ootacamund, and left it at that. Imc 20:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi and others

Hi! How are you? I am back after a long wikibreak. Saw the Subhas Bose talk page.However, I am busy with some other articles and will look into the Bose article not in near future. Maulana Abul Kalam Azad is in peer review. Please have a look. This article has a bounty on it (that is, somebody will donate some money to Misplaced Pages if it gets featured within this year). Also I shall be pushing Darjeeling for FAC soon (am waiting for domr images and also some more inputs in the culture section). Please see the Azad article. Did you notice recently Jinnah, Iqbal and Sheikh Mujibur Rahman got featured status? Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Expert help needed

Hi! Please see the article Arthur Campbell, Superintendent of Darjeeling sanitarium. There are several views regarding the name of this person who is the father of Darjeeling tea. Have cited some sources regarding several names. Could you please help decide? Thanks.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for letting me know, all the mosques and tombs in look vey similar becuase all of them have similar architectural styles. You can remove it and put it in the Samarkand page or go to Islamic architecture then add it on. Thanks! Abdullah Geelah 13:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC).

 Thanks for your work on the Bengal Famine article.