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not Brent Thompson but Lorne Ahrens

during the main street shootings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpb-mtjN9q8 the officer shown is not Brent Thompson but Lorne Ahrens https://images.huffingtonpost.com/2016-07-13-1468370777-3604307-LorneAhrensIronCrossTattoo-thumb.jpg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.230.79.158 (talk) 16:23, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Neutrality

Tagging this article for WP:NEUTRALITY. The reasons why Micah Xavier Johnson performed such an act has not been discussed in detail in the background section as per sources, but simply glossed-over. In fact, it is left right towards the middle of the article under "perpetrator:motive" (Mr. Johnson's section) and briefly touched on before telling us about his online activities, etc. It is irrelevant whether one believes those reasons are justifications for his act, but those reasons are material to this article in order to give the reader a balanced background of this incident from the start as per our policies. To simply gloss-over them is totally unacceptable for such a sensitive and racially charged incident like this. I would advise that those reasons (see below) are summarised in the lead and detailed in the background section. I have noticed a big difference in how this article is edited compared to the Dylann Roof article - which I commented on in January 2019. Unlike Dylann who was a White Neo-Nazi domestic terrorist who wanted to kill Black Americans (even the ones who welcomed him and treated him well) for no other reason other than the fact that they were Black, Micah Xavier Johnson on the hand target White police officers after numerous brutal killings of Black Americans by White police officers which can only be described as "shoot now and cover up later". Not only, that, but those White officers where exonerated by the racist American judicial system, leaving victims' families to pick up the pieces without justice for the brutal killing of their Black children/relatives. This, coupled with the historically and presently racist treatment of America's Black citizens by the dominant White American society are material facts and cannot be glossed-over. I have observed a big difference in the Dylann Roof article compared to this one. In the Roof article, the reader is groomed from the outset to have sympathy for him, be telling us about his difficult childhood and coming from a broken home etc (see the link to the talk page tread I started in that article). The perpetrator section of the Charleston church shooting (Dylann's section) appears more balanced. It simply provided us the facts. The same cannot be said here. I would also advise that the perpetrator section of this article (Mr Johnson's section) be split into a stand-alone article and titled Micah Xavier Johnson, and that section be summarised with a link to the main Micah Xavier Johnson article and the redirect removed as per the Dylann Roof article. I would also advise that Micah's main article be edited in a neutral way as per our policies. Some of the trivial nonsense presented in this article under his section should not be added back to his article as per policy.Tamsier (talk) 14:20, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Not sure about this, mainly because two wrongs don't make a right. The infobox gives the motive as "Anger about recent police shootings of African Americans, racial hatred" which is broadly correct. I wouldn't want to go down the road of stating or implying that the shootings were somehow justified because the victims were white police officers.--♦IanMacM♦ 15:44, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't think this has anything to do with two wrongs not making anything right. I think this is about adhering to our policies.Tamsier (talk) 17:21, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

What reliable sources hold the viewpoint that this shooting was justified because of racial inequality in the American judicial system? What specific edits, in your opinion, would resolve this article's neutrality problems? VQuakr (talk) 17:31, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

That's not exactly what I wrote or implied in my post above. I suggest you read again what I've written which clearly states what my concerns are, which sections are affected, what and how to fix them.Tamsier (talk) 16:45, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

For the record, please note that after my comment above, @VQuakr: made this revert in order to remove the tags I placed on this article as discussed above. I reverted him and then left him a message on his talk page asking him to discus the issues here before removing tags. He removed the message I left for him. He has not made any attempt to address the issues other playing ruse as per his comment above. WP:TANTRUM is not welcomed here, neither is POV pushing.Tamsier (talk) 23:14, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

(Redacted)

And those are the facts. So far, you have not debunked what I have stated. I will give you another try to "tell" me or debunk what I've stated. Hate is a strong word. To hate something or someone I must have an emotional investment or connection to it/them, which I don't. I'm indifferent, but that is a topic for another day. Back to the topic! Misplaced Pages has policies in place that we should all abide by, not just the selected few. I have sat here for years and watched numerous American related articles used as POV pushing/propaganda without regard for our policies by some determined editors. Most of our editors come here to make a difference and do great work. However, there are those who have used Wiki for years to advance their racist agenda in-light of the historical and current race related issues in the United states. Many of our American articles especially those relating to race or racism have been infected. This will not be one of them. For your information, I am neither a United States citizen nor do I live in the U.S, but I am well versed in the dark history of that nation especially on matters pertaining to race; its current situation, and how those issues have affected many of our articles. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a propaganda tool to be used by certain quarters. I went through this entire article twice and was dumbfounded by what I've read. Some of the key concerns have been raised above. Misplaced Pages has policies in place and we should abide by them.Tamsier (talk) 09:17, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

WP:AXE. We get it. VQuakr (talk) 15:34, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't give two hoops what you think of me. All I care about is that you follow Misplaced Pages's policies as an editor. If that is too difficult for you to do, then this is not the right project for you. Leave the project, and let people who are here to help it continue to do so. Comment on edits, not the editor. And for you information, if you are going to WP:REDACT you comment (as you did above) which led to my last reply (see above), it is best practice to do so using the WP:STRIKE through mark up, and leaving your signature intact so we know who wrote what. This is especially true when another editor has replied to your comment or quoted you. Deleting or redacting your comment without abiding by this simple policy may be viewed as trying to deprive any replies of their original context, and this should be avoided. I suggest your familiarise yourself with our policies before you start telling me whether I have an axe to grind or involved in tendentious editing. If anything, you are the one involved in tendentious editing here and I'm here to stop it it as per policy.Tamsier (talk) 02:53, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

I invited you to defend your argument with sources; you declined to do so. You overestimate the amount of influence your unsupported opinion holds. VQuakr (talk) 04:02, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

EDIT @VQuakr: has brought to my attention on my talk page that it was not them who redacted the comment I was referring to above (see my previous comment). They were right. They neither made that comment nor did they redact it. And for that, I apologise. I have struck through that comment which was right underneath their comment. However, the general advise for anyone redacting their "own" comments as performed here remains the same. I did not create that from the top of my head. That is actually a Misplaced Pages policy that everyone, regardless of what country they come from/their political affiliations must abide by. Plain and simple! I emphasise the word "own" because after going through the edit history after the comment left on my talk page, it has come to my attention that, that remark was made by @Mysticair667537: as seen here, and edited here by the same user. However, instead of Mysticair667537 editing or redacting their own comment, it was edited and redacted here by @EvergreenFir:. Why would anyone (especially a non-admin) change or redact somebody else's comment? To me, that might be viewed as someone who is abusing multiple accounts which is against our policy. I will report this to one of our Checkbusters straight away and if there are no merits to the allegation or the edit was a genuine mistake (which is possible), then I take that back and sincerely apologise. However, if this was indeed someone trying to game the system by abusing multiple accounts, then the Checkbusters will take the appropriate action. As far as I can see, the only alternative account that EvergreenFir has disclosed on their userpage is User:EvergreenFir(mobile) — which is different from Mysticair667537. Even if Mysticair667537 was another one of EvergreenFir's alternative accounts (and was disclosed as per policy), it would still be considered ill-advised to use both accounts on the same discussion tread in order to sway decision. I will be reporting this to one of our Checkbusters so that they can investigate, and if there are any merits to this, take the appropriate action against the individual concerned. @VQuakr, I will reply to your last comment separately after this and before I file a report with our Checkbusters.Tamsier (talk) 05:45, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Tagging

Nothing actionable proposed by way of neutrality and I don't see an issue; do we have consensus to remove the tag? VQuakr (talk) 19:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

• As per my recommendations above.Tamsier (talk) 23:39, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
• I would support removing the tag as there are no obvious NPOV problems. Micah Xavier Johnson was a troubled person who committed a crime described by President Obama as a "vicious, calculated, despicable attack" There is little scope for expressing sympathy, however indirect, with Johnson's actions simply because he had perceived grievances with the police and the justice system.--♦IanMacM♦ 05:24, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Proposed split of "Perpetrator" section

• Oppose; nothing of note beyond the commission of crimes on July 7-8. Trim the bloated section instead. VQuakr (talk) 19:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
• Support split to a stand-alone article and titled Micah Xavier Johnson - with this redirect removed as per the Dylann Roof and Charleston church shooting articles. The subject is notable with plenty of independent reliable third party sources covering Micah Johnson in detail. There is also a huge bundle of text about him in that section which can be transferred to his own article and edited for neutrality as per our policies.Tamsier (talk) 23:36, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

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