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Revision as of 19:48, 18 May 2019 editOld Naval Rooftops (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users4,268 edits →Requested move 18 May 2019← Previous edit Revision as of 20:30, 18 May 2019 edit undoTheFarix (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers134,691 edits →Requested move 18 May 2019Next edit →
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* '''Redirect''' Just redirect all red links. Sincerely, ]] 19:41, 18 May 2019 (UTC) * '''Redirect''' Just redirect all red links. Sincerely, ]] 19:41, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
* '''Comment:''' This is likely the same person who's already been blocked for sockpuppetry in related matters. ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 19:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC) * '''Comment:''' This is likely the same person who's already been blocked for sockpuppetry in related matters. ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 19:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per previous discussions and ] as it is used by reliable English-language sources. Both the manga and anime are officially licensed and released as ''Case Closed'' despite what a small group of dedicated fans prefer. —''']'''&nbsp;(]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;]) 20:30, 18 May 2019 (UTC)


== Move discussion in progress == == Move discussion in progress ==

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Requested move 01 November 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: procedural revert to Case Closed. The original move is clearly not noncontroversial and is hence invalid per RM protocol. I invite the original mover to open a RM discussion and invite wide discussion as we have a disparate population of editors who will see primary topic in different ways here. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:36, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Case Closed (manga) → Case Closed – The main manga article should still be named Case Closed as that is the predominant search result. The other uses should be renamed back to the Case Closed (disambiguation) article. This was moved recently without proper discussion and requires a technical move to restore it. – AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:55, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that the move had been done without any discussion like this. So why does it need a discussion to move this back to how it was so a proper discussion can be done? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:43, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Support we do not have an article about the lower court expression and likely never will. Also, considering the fact that the expression was not even mentioned before the dab page was created on the 30th and that no one complained about that fact during the many years that this was titled Case Closed strongly indicates that people were not looking for the expression in the first place. I do not think that a one sentence dictionary entry on dab page that was not being looked up or even asked about before it was crated should take precedence over this aricle.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 23:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose: malformed multimove Case Closed (film) and so on. Has anyone checked in Google Books to see what else there is? In ictu oculi (talk) 00:12, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Books indicate this article should be at Detective Conan not at Case Closed (manga) In ictu oculi (talk) 00:17, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Case Closed is the English-language title of the series. The manga is still being published by Viz under that title and Crunchyroll is simulcasting the anime series under the name Case Closed. —Farix (t | c) 01:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. SephyTheThird (talk) 10:53, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Other books: the 1993 novel by Posner (but the article is not created), the 2015 FBI novel by Weinstein (neither the novel article or the author is created), and the novel by Cornwell (where it is used as a subtitle). Those are clearly minor situations. The Case Closed (film) is also a stub-level TV movie that is barely notable. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
The TV movie should be further disambiguated to Case Closed (1988 film) as there are many films under the Case Closed franchise all with different subtitles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:29, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose it is clearly not the manga, if anything, the manga is greatly eclipsed by the TV show -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 09:41, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
    • Comment the standard media property set of articles should be created here, to deal with this like the rest of Misplaced Pages deals with media properties, instead of the weird divisions found only in anime/manga, which has exactly the same issues as the rest of the media properties in Misplaced Pages. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 16:03, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
By Oppose, you are saying it should stay as Case Closed (manga). Are you sure that's what you want? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:11, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Unless the opposer meant the Spanish language court show (aricle is spelled differently) I believe that it can be disregarded since there is not going to be a separate article for thr anime.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 22:21, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose: The expression "Case closed" has been used longer and is more popular than this series (under the "Case Closed" name). While the manga and anime are somewhat popular (under the "Case Closed" name), the expression itself is used more often in almost every news story and in some hashtag social networks (like Twitter). Whenever I do see "Case Closed" as a way of referring to the manga, I end up seeing "Detective Conan" tagged with it for the most part (sometimes "Detective Conan" is standalone). The only other main name that would work here would be "Detective Conan" - that name is used more often when referring to the manga and anime than "Case Closed". Magicperson6969 (talk) 03:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
a the use of Detective Conan a the main title had already been rejected since Case Closed is the official English language title of the work and is consistent with the way that anime titles are covered. Alos I don't see much of s case for the term since diet is a one sentence entry on thr dabpage that did not even exist until recently. I think you may be overestimating how popular the term is.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 05:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose As an older adult, I would never think of "Case Closed" as a manga or anime title. I have used and heard the phrase my entire life before the manga series was ever created. 75.82.218.97 (talk) 03:57, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I disagree thr expression is a one sentence entry on the dab page which I can not see expanded into anything meaningful for article purposes. In fact the term was not even covered at all for the several years that the this article was titled Case Closed. If the term was as popular as is being suggested I am sure that multiple people searching for it would have been surprised to see this aricle and have complained a long time ago that the more popular term was not being covered.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 05:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
This would be a case of WP:NWFCTM. Yes, the expression was around much longer. But the expression is not a primary topic, especially the capitalized "Closed" version. It's fine to redirect "Case closed" to the disambiguation, as with "Cold case", just not "Case Closed" / "Cold Case". AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - If this is not moved back to "Case Closed", then I think it would be better to place it at "Detective Conan" rather than "Case Closed (manga)" (per WP:NCDAB and WP:NATURALDIS). I think my preference on the title in general would be "Detective Conan" first, "Case Closed" second, and "Case Closed (manga)" third. I'm therefore uncertain about this move, as while I think it would put the article at a better name, it wouldn't put it at what I think is the best name. I know "Detective Conan" was rejected in past discussions, but I don't think I agree with those discussions. I think Detective Conan may actually be the most common name used in English reliable sources (for instance, Anime News Network seems to refer to the series as "Detective Conan" more often than "Case Closed", though they use "Case Closed" when specifically talking about the US release and also in the titles of their encyclopedia pages for parts of the franchise that have been released under that title). Using "Detective Conan" also would make the page names consistent with pages for things that used that name for the English release (e.g., Lupin the 3rd vs. Detective Conan), and things that don't have an official English name (e.g., any of the more recent films). Calathan (talk) 22:25, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. Anthony Appleyard, this is why requests to revert recent undiscussed moves should always be actioned. If the original bold mover still believes a move is appropriate, they can open an RM. You now have people supporting this move purely on a procedural basis, which is likely to force a no consensus result. That will result in the article being moved back where it was. Those arguing for the title to have disambiguation would actually have been better served if you had moved it back at the original request. Obviously it is too late to change things now, but please keep this in mind in future. Jenks24 (talk) 08:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose The question comes to what is the primary topic for those looking up the term "case close". The overwhelming majority of links are for the manga series. However, if you do a Google news search to see who reliable sources use the term, you will quickly discover that the manga is not the primary use, and a book search shows a mix between the manga and other uses of the term. Secondly, there were no other articles named "Case Closed" on Misplaced Pages, so page article traffic statistics cannot be used. What is clear is that Case Closed (film) would not be the primary target, as it is a relatively obscure film. Given that it is unclear whether the manga is the primary target, I believe that Case Closed should remain a disambiguation page and the article about the manga titled Case Closed (manga) is the better approach. —Farix (t | c) 00:01, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose for the same reasons as Farix. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:24, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Obvious primary topic in terms of traffic, sources and statistics compared to actual articles titled "Case Closed". The phrase "case closed" is not encyclopedic, and there's no article on it, so it's out of the running. That leaves only the TV movie Case Closed (film); the only other entries on the dab page (a novel and TV episodes) are more obscure and have no articles.
Also, given the recent moves, if this discussion doesn't close as a consensus for Case Closed (manga), it needs to be returned to the base name as that's the status quo.--Cúchullain /c 04:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose as per Farix. Not primary topic by any normal definition. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:58, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
    • We don't determine primary topic on WP by whatever you consider to be a "normal definition". We use WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --В²C ☎ 22:34, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
    • It is not the PrimaryTopic because of the other five topics listed at case closed and because the topic most likely to be expected by readers not encultured with Misplaced Pages peculiarities is wikt:case closed, an idiom, from which, indeed, all others derive. Moving on to long term significance and educational value, the mange is negligible cult fiction, eclipsed by the topic from which the name is derived. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:11, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Users of WP searching for "Case Closed" are so unlikely to be looking for the court idiom we don't even have an article for that use, and rightly so. What some hypothetical user who is not actually searching for "Case Close" on WP would expect to find is not relevant. --В²C ☎ 22:38, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
      • Searches for the court idiom would use "Case closed" with the second word in lower case, and that is acceptable to go to the disambiguation as with the examples previously provided. A similar case can be said with You've Got Mail, in which the lower case version "You've got mail." is an expression, but the upper-case version refers to the movie as primary topic. Similarly there is Die hard vs. Die Hard, the first refers to the expression and the disambiguation, and the second of which refers to the movie. Also, the manga and anime is hardly negligible cult fiction with tens of volumes and hundreds of episodes broadcast in Japan. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Yes, Angus, good point on the capitalisation of Closed. Per WP:DIFFCAPS the topic of the idiom of a "closed case", a worthy topic, does not clash, you are right.
On manga and anime, manga and anime are massive yes, which is part of the point, there is so much manga that any specific manga is usually pretty small. Admittedly, this series isa pretty significant case, although on the other hand this title is merely an English language alternative title not connected to sources attesting to the significance of the topic.
I maintain that there is no PrimaryTopic, with the film (Case Closed (film)) and the book (Gerald_Posner#Case_Closed) competitive, and noting that "Case Closed" is not accepted the proper title as is abundantly clear in the talk archives. This article should be titled "Detective Conan". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:01, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Farix's argument is nonsensical, as it concedes there are no other articles named "Case Closed" on WP (notwithstanding the obscure film with a stub article). The court expression is irrelevant as we don't have an article for it nor the demand or even basis for it. --В²C ☎ 22:34, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per B2C. People are claiming the primary topic is the legal definition, yet we have no article on that. It isn't an encyclopedic concept, it's just something people say sometimes. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC concerns itself with disambiguating concepts that actually have articles here on the Wiki, not day to day life. Also, @Anthony Appleyard: I agree with Jenks24 point above. You should not have allowed an "objection" to be raised on a request to revert an undiscussed move, you should have moved the page immediately and then had a discussion from the long standing title. Now the discussion has been confused, a no consensus should result in a move rather than what exists now. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:49, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 15 December 2015

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus for any move at this time; rather, there is a clear consensus against the proposed move. bd2412 T 15:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

– The "Case Closed" phrase is more known than the Japanese graphic novel series and there is other media using this name as well. "Case Closed" appear often in news articles, but it is not often used to refer to the graphic novels. The name "Detective Conan" is used a lot more when referring to the Japanese franchise as opposed to "Case Closed", although there was conflict over that. "Case Closed (manga)" and "Detective Conan" are the choices. Magicperson6969 (talk) 01:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose, but redirect lower-case searches to disambiguations - To summarize my thoughts from the previous RM, a search for "Case Closed" in Misplaced Pages with both caps on, is an intention to look for the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, which is the manga series franchise. There are similar cases with One Piece which is also a manga/anime franchise, Cold Case the television series, Die Hard the first film, James Bond franchise, Lost Girl TV series, Rocky film, The Matrix film, You've Got Mail film. Searching for Case closed (lower case on second word) or case closed (all lower-case) should point to the disambiguation or expression pages as with One piece, Cold case, and Die hard. Case Closed (film) currently points to a barely notable television movie, and other entries in Case Closed point to television episodes and books that do not have their own notable articles. Detective Conan should not be the main title as it is primary known in the English world through Viz Manga and Funimation anime title of Case Closed per MOS:ANIME.

Searches using stats.grok.se on English Misplaced Pages show Case Closed being more popular than Detective Conan.

Case Closed (film) and Case Closed (disambiguation) were created by Magicperson6969 on October 29 and 30, 2015, respectively.

And just for kicks, here's One Piece vs. One piece:

AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:01, 15 December 2015 (UTC), updated 01:02, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

That is not the name used in English language media. The previous attempt to move the article to Detective Conan failed to gain consensus for that reason.--72.0.200.133 (talk) 17:32, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
For reference the discussion was at Talk:Case Closed/Archive 3#Requested move October 2013 granted that was two years ago but what has changed since then.--72.0.200.133 (talk) 17:36, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose, as before. The phrase "Case Closed" has no article and never should per WP:NOTDIC. Looking at the topics that are actually covered, the statistics and sources show this to be the primary topic over the only other subject with an article, the TV movie Case Closed (film), and the even more obscure other topics listed on the dab page.--Cúchullain /c 17:57, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
The phrase "Case Closed" would be "Case closed". It doesn't even conflict. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:52, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose, per Cuchullain. The nom's reasoning is irrelevant to WP title choices. "Overridden", "So moved" and "Kiss my ass" are also well known phrases with no articles on WP. The first two have no uses whatsoever (hence, red links); the last is a dab page (Kiss My Ass) for a number of uses by the band Kiss and makes no reference to the phrase. Unless the use of a phrase has a legitimate place in WP as an article or at least as a redirect to an article subsection, there is no reason to consider it in deciding how to title articles about topics with the same name but with legitimate uses. Why is this so difficult to understand and appreciate? --В²C ☎ 21:08, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Speedy close too soon after the previous RM, with nothing substantially different. The previous close was a "no consensus", so wait at least two months, and even then make a better summary of the previous discussion. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:25, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Oppose speed close. I think there was a lot of confusion in the last discussion, still unfortunately reflected in this nom. But if we can settle it with a solid consensus opposing, which I think is likely, that's better than leaving it in a "no consensus" state. Let the discussion continue... --В²C ☎ 00:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose the stats appear to show that this is the most searched for entry for people looking up this term. Also, the legal phrase, while it may be used a lot is clearly nowhere near notable enough to be covered on Misplaced Pages. Finally based on the fact this this page has been at Case Closed since January 30th 2005 and the legal term never even disucssd before the move rewuest it would mean it took over a decade before anyone released that the primary topic was not benign covered.--174.91.187.180 (talk) 06:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep it at Case Closed for now. I personally believe the article should be located at Detective Conan, but the two-English-titles debate is beyond the scope of this discussion and the hypothetical "Case closed" article would not conflict with this article regardless of what we end up calling this work in the end.  ONR  (talk)  11:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Naval Rooftops (talk • contribs)
  • Oppose per the reasons above. Not much else to add. Calidum T|C 03:36, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Request.

Could someone please rename the title into Detective Conan? That's the original title of the series. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.245.229.121 (talk) 14:47, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. See Talk:Case Closed/Archive 3 AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

First volume cover as profile picture and change the title into "Detective Conan"

200.45.154.238 has been blocked as a sockpuppet. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:56, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Could someone please change the profile picture into the very first volume cover and change the title into "Detective Conan"? It has to be the very first volume cover for a spoilers and common sense topic. And it has to be also "Detective Conan" and not "Case Closed" because that's the original title of the series regardless what the English version chose. PLEASE.

There are also no spoilers on covers and the existing cover does a sufficient job at identifying the subject of the article. You did not provide a reason why a different cover would better identify the subject. Also, the work is known as Case Closed in the English language and is thus the common English name. —Farix (t | c) 20:40, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 18 May 2019

It has been proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

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– The Japanese manga and anime series 名探偵コナン is known as Detective Conan around the world because all covers of 名探偵コナン 's manga volumes, anime episodes, films and OVAs made by Shogakukan call 名探偵コナン as Detective Conan. In addition, when English Misplaced Pages names the seventh to twenty-third films for 名探偵コナン, Detective Conan is at the beginning of these films' titles (For Japanese version of the 23 films for 名探偵コナン, 名探偵コナン is at the beginning of all these films' titles). In conclusion, 名探偵コナン is reflected as Detective Conan. However, when English Misplaced Pages names the most parts of the related articles for 名探偵コナン, 名探偵コナン is still named as Case Closed, which is opposite from the reality and make more confusion and chaos. In order to reflect the reality and avoid the confusion and chaos, it is necessary to replace Case Closed with Detective Conan in the titles of the related articles for 名探偵コナン, as this requested move listed. ~~68.183.187.226 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.187.226 (talk) 15:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: But the reality is the official publisher Shogakukan calls 名探偵コナン as Detective Conan, and known around the world. ~~68.183.187.226 18:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Case Closed which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:44, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

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