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Revision as of 08:37, 25 November 2006

Name change

The name of this article is totally biased. None of these cases are proven or acepted by SL athorities. And in the first line of the article it says "ALLEGED" meaning that state terrorism in srilanka is only allegation. Misplaced Pages doesn't call LTTE, terrorists because it is opinion. In the sameway this article should be named "ALLEGED ATTACKS BY SRILANKAN GOVERNMENT". If no one changes the name I will do it my self. Goodluck coming up with a counter argument. ~suicidebomber~ 21:36 24 Nov 2006 (UTC)

This article was nominated for deletion on 25/7/2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

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Black July

The claims of 5 deaths and 4 in a point blank range could not be verified as the Associated Press article could not be found..I think here we should stick to the BBC article, which clearly says one death and 40 were injured.Also i added sign to some remarks,in the cases where neither sources were provided nor sources couldnt verified the claims thanks --Iwazaki 15:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

See link It is a neutral source. Not Pro LTTE or Pro SL government. It talks about the 4 people killed by police. ThanksRaveenS

actually i made my point about the june 17th incident..Since BBC article looks fair enough i think we should leave it like that.

About the wsw, no i dont think its neutral,may be even worse than the pro-ltte sites..I have been following their articles for a quite a while, and i cant but think that they are too biased towards so-called tamil problems.Sorry, for me its nothing but a another propaganda machine run by PRO-eelamists,whether they support LTTE or not --Iwazaki 18:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Please cite credible sources that say that? Or it is simply a personal opinion about WSW. If you think no one was killed then find that credible and nuetral source and add as another point of view. Saying that according so and so no one was killed' then cite. ThanksRaveenS

Obviously you have not been following WSW..Okay,just read the aricle which you cited here,and see how starts..Endless criticism of monks and SL government.Though SL govenrment was never invloved in the 1983 riots, WSW accusses it for organizing it !! For them buddhists monks are in the same category of taleban !! They claimed for buddists monks tamils are second class citizens,where are the proofs? ??!! Why they even failed to quote any monks saying tamils are inferior ?? Answer is obvious,its the internet.and everyone having a free ride !!

please,try to find another source to verify their deaths, because WSW article doesnt carry any weight at all. --Iwazaki 19:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

also,when no one is dead, Newspapers usually dont put them.have you ever seen newspaper headlines like, "bomb exploded, no one is killed" ?? or "jaffna library attacked no one is killed" ?? Either those articles are rare or never get exposed.You are the positive claimant here,and its your duty not mine to give credible sources.

See Black July a well referenced article that shows how the government was involved in organizing it. But I will try to get other sources, these incidents happened before the internet age hence little bit diificult. Thanks RaveenS

And that is wrong..SL government did not take part in 1983 riotes at all.This dubious claim is never proven and having it as a claim degrades your article by default.So please dont repeat this hypothesis,its totally baseless.

--Iwazaki 00:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Iwazaki, please cite credible references for your statments or your hypothesis of lack of government involment in is contrary to what even the government of Sri Lanka officially belives in its publications 20 years later as cited in Black July article. It is revisionism without references. Thanks 216.95.23.211

you are the positive claimant here,and its your duty to prove things by giving facts,Which so for you have failed to do.Here in this article, which is supposed to show state terrorism against tamils have given 1983 riots as an example,but there is not a single proof which proves its involvement.so the blame your self for hypothesis.Better to say, state ignore the problems or were late in taking actions.Article just echoed the common belief among tamil politicians,attacking people like Cyril Mathew.Also havent you noticed thatno where it says police shot 4 people to death ??.Finally,please sign in ,if you are really interested in having a good debate.Iam not a big fan of anonymous users doing edits in controversial articles.

--Iwazaki 09:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Please refrain from personally attacking the contributer WP:Personal Attack. This is not acceptable in WP. Any one can contribute anonymous or otherwise. It is WP policy. Please stick to subject matter on hand. Thanks RaveenS

Please move talk about Black July to here and cite with sources as talk pages are not soap box's. Hope you undertand. ThanksRaveenS

no i dont think its necessary.Here in this article you have used 1983 incident to prove state terrorism,so let the talk continue here..This is a discussion page and thats what iam doing right now.Otherwise due to lack of evidence,i would have erased that part already..Still you havent answered by quetions regarding the WSW article, if that article doesnt qualified as a neutral work, i see no point having it here.

OK I will state here WSW is not a Pro-Tamil or Pro-Sri Lankan government site. Hence it it is neutral source (see discussion below). Black July is a well referenced article that says it was organized by the government. If you disagree without proper citations then it is your opinion and I have nothing more to say. Please take it to mediation if you prefer, WP policy that that's one way to resolve a conflict. ThanksRaveenS

i havent done any personal attack at all..so i dont get what you mean here.I am having a genuine discussion here..There are some flows in the sources and pointing them is not soap box type.WSW is pro tamil site, there is no doubt about it..Didnt you read what i wrote here ?? Didnt you see ,how they start there article by attacking monks and refering them as taleban type !!! I dont know why you keep having this as a source..As for the rest, esp involvement of Gamini dissanayake, i think this is totally baseless..And i will provide evidence you need,please be patient.--Iwazaki 11:15, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Jaffna Library

OK They burned to the ground certain chosen targets - including the Jaffna Public Library, with its 95,000 volumes and priceless manuscripts, a Hindu temple, the office and machinery of the independent Tamil daily newspaper Eelanadu. Four people were killed outright. No mention of this appeared in the national newspapers, not even the burning of the Library, the symbol of the Tamils' cultural identity. The government delayed bringing in emergency rule until 2 June, by which time key targets had been destroyed.’’ - Nancy Murray, the State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984 now Nancy Murray is no Monk hating Eelamist :)) she is Nancy Murray, Director Bill of Rights Education Project in Massachusetts, American Civil Liberties Union(ACLU). Thanks RaveenS 21:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

where does it say, those people were killed by the police ?? you are talking about the state-terrorism, for that you have to prove the direct involvement of the government. Just by quoting things which does not explain SL govenments involvement is not going to prove you at all..Blaming government for its inaction is a one thing,and accussing them for terror is a totally different thing.

--Iwazaki 00:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The journal article title itself is State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984. Now we have atleast 2 instances of references. One the internet article and other journal article. 216.95.23.211 03:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

So ??? WHERE IS THE USAGE OF TERRORISM ?? Are you saying racism and terrorism are synonymous ?? Any racist will automatically become a terrorist ??

for starters,here we are discussing "so-called state terrorism".So please get your path correct,before anything. thanks Iwazaki 09:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Infact the whole quote from Nancy Murray is With several high ranking Sinhalese security officers and two cabinet ministers, Cyril Mathew and Gamini Dissanayake (both self confessed Sinhala supremacists), present in the town (Jaffna), uniformed security men and plainclothes thugs carried out some well organised acts of destruction. They burned to the ground certain chosen targets - including the Jaffna Public Library, with its 95,000 volumes and priceless manuscripts, a Hindu temple, the office and machinery of the independent Tamil daily newspaper Eelanadu. Four people were killed outright. No mention of this appeared in the national newspapers, not even the burning of the Library, the symbol of the Tamils' cultural identity. The government delayed bringing in emergency rule until 2 June, by which time key targets had been destroyed.’’ - Nancy Murray, the State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984 Hope this helps. RaveenS 04:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not quite. so the alleged involvement of poloce in the killing in not proved.The aricle only says 4 died outright, and dont even use the word police here.And gamini Dissanayake is certainly not a sinhala supremacist,another hypothesis !! could you please give me some proof, other than "she said so" or "he said so" ..And she degraded that article by using the baseless accusations,like supremacist,without giving any facts at all !!! So much for a neutral source !! Iwazaki 09:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Nancy Murray is an acredited American lawyer and an ACLU activists and has published number books on State violence. She is not a Tamil or Sinhalese. Regarding the burning of the library she wrote state security men instigated by two ministers burned the library and in the process killed 4 people. WSW says 4 people were pulled by the police and killed. Both the versions says 4 people were killed. Hence we have 2 references saying 4 people were killed. This is without going into the books listed as further reading. Which also state the same. I am amenable to change the sentence to say that four people were killed in the process and leave it to the readers to make up their mind. ThanksRaveenS

You have removed the "police" from it..Well i think thats the correct decision as these two articles contradict how those people died.So for time being lets have it like this..

--Iwazaki 11:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Speedy deletion request

This article has been written from a neutral point of view as all possible points have been cited. It went through and AFD and the discussion was non consensus. There are other series of articles on State terrorism such as State terrorism by Syria and State terrorism by the United States of America. All articles went through AFD and survived. The speedy deletion by a newbie shows that he/she is a sockpuppet who wants this point of view hidden. RaveenS 03:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

You can not justify that Sri Lanka has to have a State terrorism article based the fact that other country's have there own. In fact the USA has funded and carried out numerous acts of violence and rightly so State terrorism by the US article should be available to the public. I have read some of the topics listed on State terrorism in Sri Lanka and would like to give some of my responses.

I would like to site the first sentence on the article:

"Activities that can be termed as state terrorism by Sri Lanka have generally been attacks on alleged supporters of the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna or JVP a Marxist and nationalist political party which unsuccessfully tried twice (in 1971 and 1987-89) to overthrow the democratically elected government of Sri Lanka using a violent rebellion..."

This article goes astray even with the first sentence. In your own words these acts of violence were committed by an revolutionary Political party that did not even have democratic strength to over throw the government in 1971. In fact they have not been able to over throw or take control of the democratic process of Sri Lanka even once to date. Other country's do not list a rebellion as a state terrorist act. It is the opposite of the same. It is a terrorist act against the state, be it any ethnic group.

Also you seem to forget that there are two side of this struggle and that if we go deep into the figures and facts of the terrorism by the LTTE...we will be able to fill a separate Wiki.

You should rename this article as terrorism committed against people of Sri Lanka and give balanced facts and details.Vajira K 14 November 2006

Thanks for your input, first I think you are a sockpuppet so I will ask a Checkuser on you. Second I failed to see that the first sentence goes astray as you see. If it is a grammatical error let's work on it. All what the article (not me) says is that the first civilian victims were alleged members of JVP. Second please start an article or add to number of articles on terrorism by the LTTE such as Assassinations attributed to the LTTE, Notable attacks attributed to the LTTE. How about Civilian massacres by the LTTE ? You should and you can fill Wiki with those articles. Please go ahead and be creative. Until the check user is in I will refrain from further discussion. ThanksRaveenS 15:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Revamp?

Well just going through the article I can see issues that might want to be addressed going into the future, these issues are probably causes for disagreements with other editors about the usefulness of the article and the providence of the editors etc etc.

Well it could just be me or does the article relate to terrorism very mild? I think it requires alot of background knowledge on the conflict and is thus very shallow. Maybe we should delve into causes for State Terrorism and why certain incidents constitute terrorism?--Sharz 11:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Be my guest, go ahead. ThanksRaveenS 23:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

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