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Revision as of 17:25, 28 November 2006

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German related Issuess

IPN investigation confirms that Germans made soap out of humans in WW2

IPN: To nie był wymysł komunistycznej propagandy. Niemiecki uczony wytwarzał w Gdańsku mydło z ludzkich zwłok IPN:This wasn't a product of communist propaganda. German scientist made soap out of human corpses in Gdańsk.

--Molobo 10:22, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hatefull attack against Polish people in Die Welt condemned by Polish media and German commission

--Molobo 13:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Washington Post about prejudice towards Polish people in Germany

"Washington Post" powołuje się na badania dla Instytutu Spraw Publicznych (ISP), z których wynika, że dwie trzecie Niemców nigdy nie było w Polsce, a z naszym krajem kojarzą się im najczęściej "kradzież samochodów i przestępczość" Washington Post recalls research for ISP, which concluded that 2/3 of Germans never visited Poland, and associate Poland with "stealing cars and criminality". --Molobo 11:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

General Gunzel

The commander of a German special forces army unit was dismissed Tuesday after he praised a conservative member of Parliament for a speech that has been widely criticized here as anti-Semitic. . . . Mr. Hohmann called Jews 'a race of perpetrators.' The Jews, he said, were prominent in the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, during which millions were killed. . . . On Monday night, German television reported that General Gunzel had written a letter to Mr. Hohmann in which he expressed agreement with his opinions. . . . 'It was an excellent speech of a courage, truth and clarity that one seldom hears or reads in our country,' General Gunzel's letter said. 'And even if all those who agree with me or even clearly articulate this opinion will be referred to as right-wing extremists by the media, I can assure you that the majority of our people share your thoughts.'" The New York Times, November 5, 2003 --Molobo 11:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

German special forces seen using symbols of Wehrmacht in Afganistan

--Molobo 11:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Attitude to migration from Eastern Europe

60% of Germans oppose immigration from Eastern European countries

Kopernik

--Molobo 00:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Brest Litovsk

--Molobo 11:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

German ideology of Ethnic Cleansing 1920-1945

--Molobo 11:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Ludendorff, Wilhelm, plans of ethnic cleansing and annexations towards Poland in WWI

--Molobo 15:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Lublin to become German

--Molobo 00:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Attempts to create the myth of "Good German"

--Molobo 00:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Subhuman Poles

--Molobo 00:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Polish Jews, not Poles. I do hope that was not an intentional misquoting attempting to show the German attitude towards Poles in the worst way possible, but just a misunderstanding. Kusma (討論) 02:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Warning that German towns could become death traps for foreign tourists in "Brown East" of Germany

Uwe-Karsten Heye warns Africans that they could lost their lives if they visit certain places in Germany. --Molobo 12:16, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

"There are small and mid-sized towns in Brandenburg and elsewhere where I would advise anyone with a different skin colour not to go," said Heye, who now runs an anti-racist action group called Gesicht zeigen (Show Your Face). --Molobo 12:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

"Es gibt kleine und mittlere Städte in Brandenburg und anderswo, wo ich keinem, der eine andere Hautfarbe hat, raten würde hinzugehen. Er würde sie möglicherweise lebend nicht mehr verlassen." Später relativierte Heye seine Äußerungen. DW --Molobo 12:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Neonazism in Germany on the rise

--Molobo 10:21, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Discrimination of Poles in Prussia

--Molobo 18:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Poznan

--Molobo 00:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC) --Molobo 00:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

--Molobo 00:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Interesting WW1

--Molobo 00:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Germand demanded border

--Molobo 01:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Attacks on foreigners intesify in Germany

--Molobo 13:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Polish workers discriminated in Germany by German workers

Polish worker was insulted and discriminated in Germany. German co-workers have engaged in insults like "Under Hitler you wouldn't be allowed to work here", "you aren't a nation, you are to be expelled or ruled over" etc. --Molobo 13:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Selbstschutz in Romania

The Escalation of German-Rumanian Anti-Jewish Policy after the Attack on the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941 --Molobo 16:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Expulsion of Poles and Jews proposed by German ideologist in pre-world war I time

Expulsion of all Poles and Jews proposed by German ideologist in pre-world war I time. Later was turned into Lebensraum ideology. --Molobo 00:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Links

--Molobo 00:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC) --Molobo 00:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

--Molobo 00:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC) --Molobo 00:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Independence

--Molobo 01:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Hitler's plans to annex western Poland formed in 1933

--Molobo 00:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Germans elect neonazis into Mecklenburgia parlament

It is the second local parliament in Germany that neonazis have managaged to get representation into. The first was Saxony. --Molobo 02:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

--Molobo 02:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

And in Berlin local city councils.

And in Berlin local city councils. --Molobo 02:29, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Szymon Datner, German occupation of Poland

--Molobo 01:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Mass murders by Wehrmacht

Mass murders by Wehrmacht --Molobo 01:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Russia related issuess

Only 29 %

Russians agree with the current borders of Russia --Molobo 00:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Putin returns to traditions of Imperial Russia

--Molobo 11:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Russian nationalism

--Molobo 15:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Panslavism

www.innerasiaresearch.org/Suny%2520Empires.pdf The idea of a Pan-Slavic unity, perhaps headed by “the tsar of all the Slavs” and not just Russia (an idea expressed by the poet Fedor Tiuchev among others), was continually undermined by the resistance of other Slavic peoples, most importantly the Poles, who not only did not share Orthodoxy with the Russians but whose whole self-identity was bound up in resistance to Russian domination. Closer to home both Pan-Slavism and the more modest concept of the Russian people including both “Little Russians” (Ukrainians) and “White Russians” (Belorussians) as well as “Great Russians” was dealt a severe blow by an emerging separate national identity among Ukrainians. After the government suppressed the Ukrainian Brotherhood of Cyril and Methodius, a radical Pan-Slavic group, in 1847, it not only reversed its Ukrainophilic policy (directed against Polish influenes) but officially condemned Pan-Slavism as a dangerous and subversive doctrine --Molobo 22:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

National Russian identity

--Molobo 19:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Slavophiles and Poland

Reassessment of the Relationship: Polish History and the Polish Question in the Imperial Duma Journal article by Dmitry Shlapentokh; East European Quarterly, Vol. 33, 1999 http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=5002313948&er=deny For generations Poles had been a sort of embarrassment for Russian nationalism. Indeed the core of Russian nationalism since the middle of the nineteenth century was an idea of Slavophilism. This ideology (as many others) was inconsistent. On the one hand their representatives emphasized Orthodoxy as the essential characteristic of the Slav, credited for the Slavs' benign characteristics. On the other hand, the very term Slavophilism implied that the benign characteristics of the Slavs stemmed from their ethnicity which had nothing to do with Orthodoxy. This explanation also implied the political unity of the Slavs, or at least their mutual gravitation to each other, and here Poles were an endless embarrassment. The Slavophiles were quite virulent in their attacks on the Poles. According to Iurii F. Samarin, Poland was transformed into a "sharp wedge driven by Latinism" into the very heart of the Slavonic soul with the aim of "splitting it into fragments."(1) Nikolai Ia. Danilevsky, the late Slavophile, dubbed Poland the "Jesuitical gentry state of Poland" and that "Judas of Slavdom," which he compared to a hideous tarantula greedily devouring its eastern neighbor but unaware that its own body is being eaten by its western neighbors.(2) Fedor I. Tiutchev, one of the leading Russian poets, also called Poles "Judas of Slavdom."(3) --Molobo 22:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Orthodox Church architecture as a tool of integration with the Russian Empire(Nevski cathedral certainly will have to be expanded :) )

--Molobo 13:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Restoration of the Russian Empire

In the next several years, however, the Red Army acted not so much as a vehicle of socialist revolution, as an instrument of restoration of the Russian Empire, under a different name. They succeeded brilliantly in Ukraine, the Transcaucasus, and Central Asia, where even the nominally autonomous protectorates of Bukhara and Khiva were taken over. Where the Red Army failed, such as in Poland in 1919, this was not through lack of trying. The Soviet republics, thus formed, immediately entered a political-military alliance with Soviet Russia (formalized in early 1922) and soon thereafter, on December 30, 1922, were fully fused under the name of the USSR.

Initially, Stalin’s socialism in one country was an introvert exercise. In the 1920s and 1930s, the USSR established diplomatic relations with all neighboring countries, including those formed on the territory of the former Russian Empire, and had no claims on their territory. Only Bessarabia was shaded on the Soviet maps as Romanian-occupied.

This changed in the late 1930s. Stalin evidently started to view territorial restoration of the Russian Empire as his historic mission, which was almost accomplished by the time he died in 1953-with the sole exceptions of Poland, Finland, and the eastern Turkish districts of Kars and Ardahan.

Of course, the Poles were never really integrated, and were a constant thorn in the side for St.Petersburg. Regular uprisings and revolutions made Russian control of the Vistula provinces tenuous at best. True Slavophiles like Nikolai Danilevsky regarded the annexation of Poland as a mistake, saddling Russia with a powerful and hostile element, never to be truly Russified.40 --Molobo 15:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The Fall of Panslavism

Rather than emphasizing the cultural union of all Slavs (as the Slavophiles did until the idea fell apart amid the Polish uprisings of the 1860s) --Molobo 16:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Slavophilism

Became a Russian aggresive nationalism --Molobo 16:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Stalin and panslavism

--Molobo 16:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Interesting

Carley also says, "The objectives of Soviet policy were state security and the recovery of the tsars' lost territories." (p. 212) --Molobo 22:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC) --Molobo 22:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Russian nationalism and Kiev

When Muscovy rose to power, Kiev had long since perished and the tracing of a link between the two may to some extent be seen as representative of Great Russian chauvin- ism. --Molobo 22:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Katkov

Even the conservative nationalist Mikhail Katkov (1818-1887) conceived of Russian identity as basically state-centered. Since the state was not ethnically homogeneous, that condition had to be changed. Russification would provide the state with the ethnic nation below. Though his newspaper, Moskovskie Vedomosti, was the most popular on the Right, his nationalist views had only limited appeal to the broader population. The idea of a Pan-Slavic unity, perhaps headed by “the tsar of all the Slavs” and not just Russia (an idea expressed by the poet Fedor Tiuchev among others), was continually undermined by the resistance of other Slavic peoples, most importantly the Poles, who not only did not share Orthodoxy with the Russians but whose whole self-identity was bound up in resistance to Russian domination. --Molobo 12:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Find more

Byrnes describes Kliuchevskii as a "nation builder." He wanted to absorb the people already within the state rather than to expand it. A major theme of The Course of Russian History is the gathering of the Russian people into one nation. This idea of the regathering led him to ignore those peoples who can not be readily absorbed. Kliuchevskii saw all Slavs, except for the Poles, as components of that Russian nation. --Molobo 22:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Other issuess

Voltair's animosity towards Poland and Catholicism

Interesting

--Molobo 17:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Polish Panslavism

All of them stressed the importance of voluntary union as a principle of the Commonwealth’s political system. All of them extolled the unique character of the republican virtues of the Commonwealth’s citizens and their liberties, as opposed not only to the Russian or the Ottoman political traditions, but to Western European bureaucratic formalism, and state absolutism in different guises. They re-interpreted the “Sarmatian” idea in a more democratic form, that should open up citizenship of a regenerated Polish republic to all its inhabitants. At the same time, they identified the post-partition political body of Poland as a symbol of all oppression. In Mickiewicz’s and Słowacki’s messianic-religious interpretation, Poland became the nation-martyr, even the Christ of nations. Every struggle for Polish independence, every subsequent insurrection – from the Bar confederation, through the Kosciuszko uprising, up to the latest (1830-31) war with Russia – was interpreted as a model of a brave consistency in striving for freedom’s sake. Lelewel was the originator of the battle-cry of the uprising of 1830-31, “For your freedom and ours,” which was then repeated in the emigration as the new motto of the Polish mission. And indeed, Polish emigrants were active and very much visible in every possible political turmoil in Europe between 1831 and 1863. The revolutions of the so-called Spring of Nations in 1848-49 formed the peak of this revolutionary Polish activity. The paradoxical nature of the ideology that led the Polish emigrants to this hectic activity could be described most concisely as an international nationalism, a call to solidarity of nations in their fight against the solidarity of despotic monarchs as represented by the Sacred Alliance, initiated by Tsar Alexander I, Francis I – Austrian emperor, and Frederick William IV – king of Prussia. Polish Commonwealth regenerators would be natural leaders in this specific nationalist international. The ultimate consequences of their plans are vividly described by Mickiewicz in his futuristic vision of the year 1899 (written in 1832), when he expected a hetman (that is, military leader) of the Commonwealth to come back from the Urals after defeating the last remnants of the forces of tsarist despotism, thus enabling a Free Republic of Siberia to be firmly established. All nations were to be liberated – Siberia included – and the center of their liberation was to be in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, regenerated and united anew with Poland. 23 The whole Eastern and Central European post-tsarist realm was to be transformed into a set of democratic, nation-based republics, modeled on and liberated with the help of the reestablished Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. And so the latter was to be a kind of anti-imperial empire. In reality this vision inspired revolution-oriented national movements in many parts of Europe, and future Zionist leaders as well. 24 For Lelewel and Mickiewicz any geopolitical considerations were rather alien. They sternly believed in the attractive force of an ethical appeal connected to the example of the Polish fight against the tsarist imperial arch-enemy – and extended this belief even to the Russian nation, which they saw as one of the victims rather than as the most important of their enemies. In other version of the Polish emigrants’ political thought, however, the Polish “liberation doctrine” took a more geopolitically oriented shape, distinctly opposing Poland and Russia as the two contradictory poles of political attraction in Eastern Europe, and in Slavdom in general, not only in terms of some idealistic principle but in the harsh reality of state interests. Poland, reconstituted in its old, pre-partition borders, would form then a kind of anti-Russian strategic magnet. In order to make the future place of Poland secure its aim would be not so much to create a Polish Empire, as to disperse the existing Russian Empire, diversifying its geopolitical territory into as many elements/states as possible. This idea was quite close to the one implemented two centuries earlier by Cardinal de Richelieu against the German states in order to make France’s strategic position in the east unbeatable. As an example of this mode of Polish political thought one can mention General Ludwik Mierosławski’s geopolitical treatise, published in 1857. He explained the necessity of balancing the much too powerful and dangerous Russian political realm with a strong Poland and her influence in all Slavdom (Russia excluded). Poles (together with Ruthenians) should play a central role in the liberation of the Slavonic race from despotisms ruling in Eastern Europe, and connect the world of the Slavs to western civilization. 25 Even more illustrative in this respect may be the last stage of Prince Adam Jerzy Czartoryski’s political career and thought. In 1831 the former foreign minister of the Russian Empire became the prime minister of the Polish insurgents’ government, and ended as the head of the most implacable enemy of the Russian Empire’s territorialintegrity, forthirtyyears leadinghispropaganda and diplomatic fight against the tsarist state from his émigré base in Paris. Disappointed in the idea of a just empire, which he had cherished during his service in the courtof Alexander I, hedeveloped a highly originalconcept of nations and the priority of their right to independence over imperial states in organizing a new political order in Europe. He expressed this new idea first in his extensive Essay on Diplomacy (written in 1823 and printed in 1830), and then tried to realize it against the Russian Empire. Leading the post-insurrection diplomacy and propaganda of the Polish emigration for thirty years, prince Czartoryski became the main patron of using all ethnically non-Russian elements of the Empire in order to tear it apart. His battle against the Tsar Nicholas I’s state was independence for Don Cossacks, Tatars, Circassians (Chechens), Finns, Estonians and other ethnic or religious minorities he portrayed as victims of the Russian Empire’s oppression. Inspired by the prince’s agents, and backed by Western European powers, especially by the British, these new nations were to form an important element of Czartoryski’s plan for the Russian Empire’s destruction and formation of a new political order in all of Eastern Europe. It is worth stressing that Czartoryski was consistent in extending his principles and efforts to lands of the Ottoman and – to a lesser extent – Habsburg empires, backing national movements of the Rumanians, Serbs, Croatians, Hungarians, and Bulgarians --Molobo 22:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

--Molobo 16:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Putin tries to form alliance against Poland with Germany

http://www.kommersant.com/p711628/G...reign_partners/ The energy alliance requires joint action, and Putin has things to ask of Merkel. Moscow is very annoyed by Polish support of a pan-European cooperation agreement on energy policy. The new Polish government is concerned with the sharp fall in income from transit that will take place if gas supplies to Europe through Poland are reduced. Therefore, Warsaw has politicized the issue, lobbying (with the backing of the U.S.) for an “energy NATO” for Eastern Europe. One of the main Russian proposals that will be made at the meeting is joint opposition to Poland's idea. --Molobo 12:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The most succesfull transit economy in Central Europe

--Molobo 20:46, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Scandal in New York as city official insults Polish minority

Cached article here:

NY Daily News article: Greenpoint's main problem, he wrote, was "Polish people infesting its rowhouses." Langlieb described a Greenpoint "of the future" that will be filled with lawyers and investment bankers "after the vermin are gone." --Molobo 13:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Other Users Comments

Blocked for yet more disruptive edit warring and incivility

Molobo, you were blocked for a month from editing for that highly disruptive revert rampage that very nearly got you blocked indefinitely for one of the lengthiest histories of edit warring of anyone around. You know the deal: the only reason you aren't blocked indefinitely already is because at the request of Piotrus, Chris 73, and others, we all agreed to this: "I'll put it back at a month with the stipulation that at the first whiff of a return to edit warring he will be reblocked." Recently you've engaged in extensive edit warring on many distinct articles, including, but definitely not limited to, Soviet partisans in Poland, History of Poland, Historical Eastern Germany, Otto von Bismarck, Teutonic Knights, German Empire, and those are just the ones I found in the last few days before I tired of looking at your contributions. I am disheartened to see you continuing this behavior, rather than using proper, constructive, dispute resolution processes. For continuing this disruptive behavior, I have blocked you for a year, as promised. You are a career edit warrior, and uncivil to boot , and you've worn out your welcome here and used up all your second chances for a long time to come. Dmcdevit·t 05:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with this block. I engaged in civil and proper discussion of issues, and experienced revert waring upon sourced information from users engaging in far less creative activity that I have. Their actions seem to be based more on political and national preferences rather then aim of objectivity. Since the block information on treatment of Poles in Prussia, by Bismarck was deleted, although historians consider it a major part of Prussian policy. --Molobo 23:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Question by Ghirlandajo

Molobo, are you not tired of your campaign? Do you really think that pan-Slavism (unity with other Slavic peoples) presents such a great danger for Poland? --Ghirla 12:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Slavic people are long gone and extinct replaced by various different nations with completely different cultures and histories, Pan-slavic ideology is a tool of Russian imperialism that sought to justify its territorial expansion and influence in Europe and at the same time destroy other nationalities by Russifying them(claiming that Russians are "true Slavs"). The fact that Russian of today officials re-call panslavistic thought that was used by Tsars as justification for massacres of Poles is worrying and shows that this hateful ideology is still alive in some circles of Russian politicians either as sign of ignorance or nationalism.

--Molobo 12:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, and how about Polonization? That's the tool of whom or what? -- Grafikm 12:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Ad hominem tu quoque refers to an irrelevant accusation of hypocrisy. Accusations of hypocrisy are inadmissible in legal and scientific debate, and can be distractions from the business of politics. That is, it is not relevant to the credibility of a didactic argument whether its presenter has trod over the principle he espouses. For example, a corrupt lawyer who prosecutes embezzlers may be a sleaze, but in a properly organized legal system there can be no arguments against his defendant just because of that.

A typical And You Are Lynching Negroes responce... That's the tool of whom or what? Nobody since nobody in Poland pushes forward such slogans and it never was a ideology comperable to Panslavism. As to the article it is terribly biased and written by Irpen who used a Panslavist(!) quotes to write about Poland. That is as neutral as giving writings of Nazi ideologist to write about Jews, since the Panslavist on regular basis wrote about Poland such things as "tarantula", "Judas" etc. They can't be seen as objective source of information regarding Poland, as hatred for Poland was one their most popular ideas. Thus the Misplaced Pages rule of : The websites and publications of political parties and religious groups should be treated with caution, although neither political affiliation nor religious belief is in itself a reason not to use a source. Widely acknowledged extremist or even terrorist organizations or individuals, whether of a political, religious, racist, or other character, should never be used as sources for Misplaced Pages, except as primary sources, that is to say they should only be used in articles about those organizations or individuals. Even then they should be used with great caution, and should be supported by other sources.

Panslavists were both political and religious extremists that bordered on racism. --Molobo 12:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

German officials commemorate residence of Goering.

Hundreds of German criminals sent to Poland by German officials.

German firms arrange the agreement which often is fiction as the people in Poland don't know even how to speak German. Not long ago, a 15 year old German criminal raped 82year old Polish women. --Molobo 17:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Photos of children and women murdered by Soviet Partisans relased

This will be important addition for Soviet Partisans article. --Molobo 16:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Edits to your user page

An anonymous IP editor has been making changes to your User page. I have rolled back those changes, as there was no indication that they were being made by you.

If you would like to change your user page – as an editor under a long term editing ban – you have two options. I will delete your user page if you make a logged-in request here, or you may edit your user page (logged-in) when your block expires.

Misplaced Pages isn't here to provide a soapbox for editors who have been blocked for a failure to edit politely and constructively with others. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That IP isn't mine. I have been fairly often attacked by anon IPs possing as my in order to possibly block me forever, while I am patient enough to wait for the ban made due to harrasment of certain users which I reacted in wrong way to be over. Don't worry about the user page, I am quite active on Polish wiki, and if any vandalisation occurs I have a lot of friendly editors who can undue it. --Molobo 17:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)