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Fair use images

I don't care what the rules say, you're not going to get every actor or actress in Hollywood to take a Creative Commons promotional shot just because the rules state, However, if the subject of the photograph still exists, a freely-licensed photograph could be taken.

Sure, it could be taken. But will it? Highly unlikely. You probably won't convince Jennifer Coolidge or any other Hollywood actor or actress that they need to stop what they're doing to make their photos fall under the GPL just so Misplaced Pages can use them. Putting these sorts of rules on the photos merely has the effect of diluting hours of work that went into grabbing the original photos in the first place, taking away recognizability of biographical subjects, diluting the overall quality of the encyclopedia and creating unnecessary edit wars for the rest of us.

It's a case of Wiki-overboard that you did this to so many different promotional shots which are covered under a fair use rationale. Let's be realistic here and worry about fair use issues which actually will improve the quality of the site rather than taking away from it. - Stick Fig 10:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

This makes me think. If the idea that anything that exists can be photographed or released as GFDL/CC, what's the point in having fair use images on the English Misplaced Pages? --LBMixPro 03:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

• The primary goal of Misplaced Pages is to produce and distribute a free content encyclopedia.
• A fair use image cannot be used solely to illustrate a living person. This is why we have the {{subst:rfu}} tag.
• Many biograhies of living persons use non-free images in violation of the fair use criteria, but we are busy tagging them as fast as we can.
• Regarding a change in policy, this isn't the place to discuss or propose new policy. Try for instance Misplaced Pages:Images of living people, Misplaced Pages talk:Images, Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use or the Misplaced Pages:Village pump.
• A final note: all editors should remember that editing Misplaced Pages is a privilege, not a right. (See also Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not.)

--Oden 04:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

This policy you're enforcing is only a proposed policy, according to your links. - Stick Fig 09:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

The links I provided were to proposed changes in policy, which is the proper venue do discuss any changes in policy. However, the policy in this issue is quite clear: the fair use criteria (which is policy) states that the first requirement is that "No free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information. However, if the subject of the photograph still exists, a freely-licensed photograph could be taken.". --Oden 09:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to note to others that he's spiteful about his policies, too, and marked every single image I've ever uploaded (including one I created myself and which does fit the necessary criteria). I'm sorry, you're just being rude now. You know, there is such a thing as loose interpretation of the rules and there are other, more important factors at play here. - Stick Fig 10:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. The image you claim to have created is a derivative work, uploading it with a free license is most likely a copyright infringement. Removing the tag without providing a fair use rationale is against Misplaced Pages policy. I have responded on your talk page with further details. --Oden 12:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand that you feel offended in that I have reviewed you recent contributions, but please bear in mind that neither you nor I have ownership of the articles. You are perfectly free to examine my contributions, and make any necessary improvements. Sincerely --Oden 12:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not making personal attacks so much as noting your questionable choice of edits; I feel like you chose to go back and look back at my prior edits in response to criticism instead. It seems purely selective and somewhat vindictive. I mean, I understand the matter about us not owning the articles, but edits should also be constructive instead of destructive. I feel that your edits were destructive in nature.

Regarding the Bluffton Today image, I laid out the cover. I used to work there. It mentions as much on my talk page. - Stick Fig 22:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Image:Blufftontoday.jpg if you are the creator of all the images and text that are displayed there (including the newspaper logo) then it would still be a derivative work, but it would be dervied from previous work to which you are the creator. However the website states "Copyright ©2006 Bluffton Today. All rights reserved." .

If the newspaper in question copyrights its website, it is also likely that the print edition (which you might very well have created) also is copyrighted. Furthermore, when an employee creates a copyrighted work in the course of their employment many times the copyright is retained by or shared with the employer, which makes the matter even more complicated. However, the image is permissible under the fair use terms here on Misplaced Pages, with a detailed fair use rationale and proper source attribution. Cheers! --Oden 06:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Amhalldz.jpg

I don't really understand how it fails fair use criterion 1. I couldn't help it read the comments above because that is exactly what I was thinking. Are you suggesting that I should stalk Anthony Michael Hall to get a free picture? A freely-licensed photograph on actors is not always available, that is why I believe this image (and many others used in biographies of living persons) does not fail fair use criterion 1. If you could reply in my talk page, I'd really appreciate it. Nat91 05:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I have responded on your user talk page. --Oden 05:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

As for your reply, I'm aware of the criterion you're mentioning in the second paragraph (If the image is attached to a paragraph in the article which discusses the subjects acting performance in a specific context). But, I'm still not sure where I can find the kind of pictures that would be suitable for an infobox. It is not easy to find a free image. Do you have any suggestions? (apart from Creative Commons?) Could you reply in my talk page again? Thanks! Nat91 06:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I have responded on your user talk page. --Oden 06:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

You said: "if you place the current image elswehere in the article it might even improve it further"

I can place the current image elsewhere in the article? Is that acceptable? Well, considering the image is a promotional picture of a TV series, it should be attached to the paragraph that talks about it, correct?. But there's already another picture there. Honestly, the infobox picture is the one I'm thinking about right now. I know is not a requirement for FA, but it feels like there should be one there. Nat91 06:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

If the image is not necessary for the article you could orphan it (remove it completely). Katie Holmes, Austin Nichols and Diane Keaton are all featured article which do not have an image in the infobox.--Oden 07:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I just want to let you know I have finally got permission to use an image (under the Creative Commons license) taken by the webmaster of a website I found. I'll added it to the article and remove the Amhalldz.jpg image as soon as I can. Nat91 17:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Noted. --Oden 17:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Queencrown.jpg

re the nrd on the above Image, that Image was uploaded way before 4 May 2006. Brian | (Talk) 10:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, missed the date on that one. The image could still use a fair use rationale, even though it is no requirement. --Oden 10:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I also self-reverted my edits on that one. Cheers! --Oden 13:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Queen_Beatrix.PNG

I've updated the licensing for this image. I'm not sure if it still needs the speedy deletion tag in Beatrix_of_the_Netherlands because it's not in the main article? --Rpvdk 13:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I self-reverted. Cheers! --Oden 13:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Non-free photos of bands

There is an interesting debate going on at Image talk:Wheatus 2005.jpg (regarding Image:Wheatus 2005.jpg). It has a potential effect on many other images, and I'm really not sure where I fall on this. If you'd like to chime in, your input would be valued.

Also, did you know about Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Abu badali? I thought you might be interested. All the best, – Quadell 14:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Ted Greene image

The original image was not marked as all rights reserved at the time it was uploaded, the Greene Web site has since been redone, images moved to Flickr, and additional rights restriction posted. Even though the image might still qualify under Fair use as Mr. Greene is deceased, I have indicated on the image's talk page that with the revised licensing on Flickr, I have no objection to the image's removal. Tvccs 16:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Noted. --Oden 16:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Since he is deceased I removed the replaceable fair use image tag, and I also provided a fair use rationale for Ted Greene. Sincerely, --Oden 16:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Noted. Thank you. Tvccs 16:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Sally Barker Image

Please review the revised information at Image:SallyBarker1.jpg and provide commentary as needed. Thank you. Tvccs 16:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It looks good. I don't think anyone would be upset if you removed the "no rationale" tag when you provide a fair use rationale. --Oden 16:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback - for the record, I would note that I have seen dozens of album cover images, most as a part of Wikiproject:Album, that do not include a detailed fair use rationale for each image, and it was those images I used as a reference when loading my own. Tvccs 17:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand, it is a fairly common mistake. Thank you also for your contributions to Misplaced Pages's articles. --Oden 17:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Mike Synar image

Mr. Synar, who is also deceased, no longer has a Congressional Web page, or one archived. The image in question was previously used by his office as an official photo - that's why it was tagged as such - I knew Mr. Synar and his staff personally prior to his death. There is no "free" image of Mr. Synar available through any source I could locate, and I did considerable research at the time of posting this one. Since you were kind enough to quickly do the rationale on Ted Greene, I'm wondering if you'd do the same for Mr. Synar and remove your tag, etc? The image source was http://www.congsoftball.com/. Tvccs 17:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The website says "All text, images and techniques (c)1998-2006" but he died in 1996, so I don't know what the copyright status is. There is no mention of a photographer. The safest thing to do is, because he is no longer with us, to switch to a fair use template. I'll make the necessary changes. --Oden 17:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your assistance. Tvccs 17:34, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Fixed Image:Synar1.jpg. --Oden 17:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I reviewed your changes - extremely helpful, thank you. Tvccs 17:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Mitchel Forman Image

The content on the Mitchel Forman Web page and the image used were released by Mr. Forman at my request under GFDL. Those efforts are detailed on the talk page for the article - if you find them sufficient, I hope they addressed your concerns - in neither the Synar or Forman cases did I post a copyrighted image without clearance, although the exact specification of said was apparently unclear. As a matter of note, there are numerous artists for whom I have attempted to find, or gain fair use or GFDL images for, which I cannot locate, and I have declined to post those images as a result. Tvccs 17:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Permission has been logged in the OTRS system, so I self-reverted my edits to Image:MitchelForman-1.jpg. --Oden

Thank you. Tvccs 18:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:DickHigginsPromo-1.jpg

Another image you tagged, and since you are obviously far faster than I on these...another deceased individual - can you assist? Thank you. Tvccs 18:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Fixed it, but it's actually just a matter of taking a standard piece of text (a fair use rationale) and adapting it for the situation (and at the same time making sure that the fair use image meets the fair use criteria). --Oden 18:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes...I am aware of that, and have begun adding further rationales as requested, as I have been able to do as in Sally Barker, and I will be moving on to others as I have time. I'm wondering how you would handle a promotional image of a musical group which is no longer together, and of which one of the members is deceased - see Image:Softmachine70-Promo4.jpg Tvccs 18:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Image:Softmachine70-Promo4.jpg - it looks like a old (period) picture, so since their appearances must have changed taking a new photo would not be the same (it isn't replaceable). That is what I would write, but other editors might have a different opinion. --Oden 18:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback, as I mentioned prior, one of the members in said photo is also deceased. Tvccs 18:43, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Waynepalmer.jpg

Thanks for alerting me to the issues surrounding fair use of the image in question. In fact, the image can be deleted as there is little use for it anymore. I uploaded it at a time when there were very few other available images that were suitable for use on the character's page. Now that Wayne Palmer is a major character in season 6 of 24, an official promotional image is now used in the article. Cheers.

Northeasternbeast 19:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Noted. Thanks! --Oden 19:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Dan powter album.jpg

The said image is fair use. It's an album cover, and that's all there is to it... Please review it. Thank you. Øřêōş 20:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)