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Svante Thunberg

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Svante Thunberg (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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AFD nominated on behalf of 110.165.186.42 --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Per WP:AFDHOWTO, I'm requesting help with nominating the Svante Thunberg article for deletion (since I don't use an acccount).

My motivation for the nomination is that this article seems to fail the basic criteria. There doesn't seem to be any significant non-trivial coverage of Thunberg. I checked on the Swedish Misplaced Pages page and even there, all the links are just "databases" proving he's appeared in this or that stage show/movie/TV show, or articles about either his wife or daughter (both who are clearly notable). He's appeared in some productions but it's not clear to me that the roles he played in them were "significant" (per WP:NACTOR). I tried looking him up on Google and while I get hits for several news articles where his name appears even before Greta became famous, they all seem to be trivial mentions as "Malena Ernman's husband"). A google news search for

"svante thunberg" -"greta" -"malena"

receives 1 casual mention of another man sharing his name/surname complaining about traffic noise in Stockholm. ()

A google search for

"svante thunberg är" or "svane thunberg har" (i.e. "... is" "... has") -"greta" -"malena"

receives two mentions of other people sharing the same name, one inventor, another unclear, no mention whatsoever of acting.110.165.186.42 (talk) 08:35, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

I also want to add that this nomination isn't about trying to "get to Greta" so I hope everyone will keep a cool head. Greta and her mother Malena are obviously notable, but I don't see a case for Svante's notability and I've made a good effort to find any evidence that he might actually be, but failed..110.165.186.42 (talk) 08:40, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This article had previously been nominated by User:Andy_Dingley acting on behalf of 110.165.186.42, but Andy withdrew his nomination.

I have copied some of the IP's comment from the old nomination:

• Comment The sources in the article are currently as follows:

1) An article about his daughter where there's a trivial mention of him and his wife becoming vegans because of her. Not significant. Trivial.

2) an article about his daughter which mentions in one line her father was with her on the trans-Atlantic boat trip. Not significant. Trivial.

3) and 4) are from the Swedish population registry. Obviously trivial.

5) is a database of the imdb type, but for Swedish theatre "Dramaten", showing Thunberg has appeared in 3 2 plays, in one as as an extra and a choir member, and once as a character called "Ettan" in Peter Pan (unclear which character this is, but most likely not a major one. No mention of a character called "Ettan" in the Swedish Peter Pan Wiki article). Judging from this source, he does certainly not seem to have ever be an established theatre actor.

6) is a newspaper article not available online and unverified, with the title: "Åtta av 567 fick chansen", "Eight out of 567 people got the oppurtunity". It seems to have been an article mentioning he was one of few accepted either to Gothenburg university or Dramaten. Trivial.

7) 8) 9) Imdb and Imdb type entries without any further comment or text on the actor whatsoever. Trivial

10) 11) interviews with Thunberg's wife where he is mentioned several times. His wife (Malena) talks about her home life and mentions how her husband gave up his career to take care of the children while she's on tour (as an opera singer). The most signifcant coverage of the bunch, but still entirely in relation to his wife, and certainly not evidence he had a notable career as an actor.

12) Review (published in a Swedish newspaper) of the book he wrote with his wife and daughter. One mention of his "character" in the book, no further mentioning of him. It should be obvious that as it currently stands, the article does most definitely not meet WP:GNG and especially not WP:NACTOR or WP:AUTHOR.110.165.186.42 (talk) 13:12, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

--Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:26, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Comment @Ohnoitsjamie and BabbaQ: notifying voters in the old AFD. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:30, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete I don't see any sources that qualify as depth-of-coverage that are independent of his wife and daughter's notability. OhNoitsJamie 18:35, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:39, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:39, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete I agree with the IP's assessment. I can't find enough coverage of Svante, only his daughter Greta. The scant coverage I found is list articles that could be discarded as trivial coverage. Also, there are passing mentions of the dad.Neither of these allows Svante (NOT Greta) to pass General Notability Guidelines to allow the dad to have his own article.Perhaps he should be merged into the article about his daughter ie Greta Thunberg --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:44, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep Andy Dingley (talk) 18:51, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• Andy Dingley, why? Is there a source I missed that could take Mr. Thunberg past the WP:GNG guidelines? --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 19:00, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• I believe Misplaced Pages makes a practice of listing them here: Svante Thunberg#References Andy Dingley (talk) 19:02, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• Are you going to make an argument countering the IP's careful analyses showing all of the references in your link to have only trivial coverage of Svante? I should also note that your previous withdrawal of the first AfD was out of process: AfDs can only be withdrawn when there are no opinions concurring with the request for deletion, and that one had two. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:26, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• Andy, please just provide a reasoning/guideline for your !vote. BabbaQ (talk) 11:02, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Strong keep Well-known Swedish actor performing at what is often referred to as the "Swedish national theatre stage", combined with his appearance in television series Skärgårdsdoktorn. Independent of his wife's opera career and their daughter's climate actions. J 1982 (talk) 22:06, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

  J 1982, got any sources to back this up? --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:20, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

  J 1982, if what you're saying is actually true, it should be easy to prove. There's no support for what you're saying among the already present sources. 110.165.186.42 (talk) 03:19, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  The assertion that he is an "actor performing at what is often referred to as the 'Swedish national theatre stage'" (which I take to mean Dramaten) seems provably false. According to Dramaten's official database, which claims to have the full data of every play featured there since 1906, Thunberg has only appeared in 2 plays, both in 1991, and in only of those did he play a named character. He wasn't exactly top-billed at that time either: https://www.dramaten.se/medverkande/rollboken/Play/1414 110.165.185.203 (talk) 04:13, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

J 1982 edited their comment to add this to an existing line: "combined with his appearance in television series Skärgårdsdoktorn". Thunberg appeared in a single episode of a soap opera. This hardly helps him pass the bar for WP:NACTOR. J 1982 should also address the fact that having appeared in 2 plays on Dramaten in 1991 is not the same thing as being an "actor performing at what is often referred to as the 'Swedish national theatre stage'"110.165.185.203 (talk) 16:13, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

How come another IP just randomly turn up and add a comment. Stay with one IP if you can not bother to start an account. J1982s rationale for Keep is based Thunbergs work which is a part of the sourcing. Totally acceptable. BabbaQ (talk) 16:34, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

"Stay with one IP" is a meaningless exhortation. I'm not using several IP's - the one I use changes automatically from time to time, outside of my control. Besides, my new IP is almost identical to the previous one, except for the last few numbers. It's a complete non-issue. Don't attempt to make it into one. Let's discuss Svante's notability. "J1982s rationale for Keep is based Thunbergs work which is a part of the sourcing". I've gone through the sources with a comb and presented the results of that in a comment. There is just no non-trivial significant coverage of him and his acting career does obviously not meet WP:NACTOR. I've proven this with actual references to each individual source quoted in the article, while you've only made vague references to "it's in the sources", so far. 110.165.185.203 (talk) 00:24, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete Agree with the IP's assessment and haven't seen a good case made for this person being notable in their own right. Oska (talk) 23:01, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• A ”vote per” !vote is basically null. You need to provide a guideline for your !vote.BabbaQ (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  BabbaQ, well Oska is agreeing with IP's assessment so IP's reasoning can apply here too. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:50, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  BabbaQ, you're mistaken. See WP:PERNOMINATOR: "If the rationale provided in the nomination includes a comprehensive argument, specific policy references and/or a compelling presentation of evidence in favour of keeping or deletion, an endorsement of the nominator's argument may be sufficient."110.165.185.203 (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete unless multiple new reliable sources turn up with significantly greater in-depth coverage of Svante himself than the ones analyzed in the nomination. I tried looking myself but didn't find them, presumably because (if they exist at all) they're hidden by all the articles about his notable relatives mentioning but not going into depth about him. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:51, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Alternatively, redirection to Scenes from the Heart would also be acceptable, if the article on the book is improved to use enough third-party sources to make its own notability clear. (I suspect the book is notable but the article on it in its current state does not reflect that.) Despite a lot of heat on this AfD, it still is the case that nobody here has provided evidence for Svante having separate notability from the book or other family members. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:48, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep - article subject has an established career in the field of acting with plenty of notable roles. Provided in sources. Also per WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 11:01, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  BabbaQ, IP has said that his theater's role are not notable and he hasn't won any awards so WP:NACTOR cannot be used here. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 11:52, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  "plenty of notable roles" - what do you base this on? Obviously not the actual sources in the article. Please name some of these notable roles!110.165.185.203 (talk) 15:51, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete No reliable sources for notability. Keep votes seem only to be based on the personal opinions of those editors. Known to the general public only through wife & daughter. With the enormous coverage given to his daughter at this time, it's especially and principally important that her father isn't baselessly name-dropped into English Misplaced Pages with an article of his own. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:46, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Comment - This is not a !vote on Greta Thunberg. If Svante is mentioned in the same sources as Greta or not is completely irrelevant. Its POV at best and must be given little weight at closing.BabbaQ (talk) 12:59, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

I, for one, do not know what is meant by this comment, finding nothing here about that (Svante is mentioned in the same sources as Greta) which would impact on this deletion. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:03, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete: Notability is not inherited. Even if every other member of his family was notable, he would still need significant sources about him to establish notability. Andy Dingley's dogged refusal to even comment on the quality of the sources leads me to believe his !vote is based purely on WP:ILIKEIT. Since the sources are all garbage, I think it is safe to say that he is as notable as I am. A redirect is inappropriate in this case because there are 2 equally valid redirect targets (his wife and daughter). Rockphed (talk) 15:13, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep I PRODed the article in March and my PROD was reverted, making me think there was at least some consensus to keep, and that was 6 months ago, why wasn't there an afd much more quickly if he is unnotable? I very rarely vote to delete an article which has versions in multiple languages, it was just Swedish and English when I PRODed. His daughter is very famous and I note that with other very famous people we have articles on their parents such as Besarion Jughashvili and Ekaterine Geladze, Stalin's parents. I am sure there is room for additions such as his accompanyine his daughter on the yacht across the Atlantic, and it is unlikely that this is recentism, the article will become more not less notable over time. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 15:28, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  RichardWeiss, well notability is NOT inherited. Just because his daughter is notable, doesn't mean he is.

  He must be notable on his own. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 15:31, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  • I don't understand your point. Nobody is isolated. I gave an example of people who were clearly not notable apart from their son. Philip May wouldn't be notable except for his wife either. Philip is notable because of his relationship with his wife, Thunberg because of his relationship with his daughter, he isn't even solely her father, he is her manager as well. So how is he any different form Melania Trump et al. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 15:36, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

    RichardWeiss, see WP:NOTINHERITED, which said "The fact of having a famous relative is not, in and of itself, sufficient to justify an independent article. Individuals in close, personal relationships with famous people (including politicians) can have an independent article even if they are known solely for such a relationship, but only if they pass WP:GNG. Newborn babies are not notable except for an heir to a throne or similar."

    So unless he's famous BECAUSE of his relationship, he doesn't have the merit of having his own article.

    But this doesn't apply in this cause since there's nothing noteworthy about him being the father of Greta. There are no articles covering him or his relationship to Greta. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 15:45, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

    RichardWeiss asks "How is he any different form Melania Trump et al?", giving also the example of Philip May.

    Well, if you go to Philip May's page you will see that it is closely linked to the article Spouse of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. May is recognised in this position officially and, overseas, diplomatically. The same with Melania Trump and the position First Lady of the United States. Obviously Parent of Climate Activist is never going to be a wikipedia article, so there's your point of difference. Greta's mother is notable in her own right and thus, rightly, gets her own article. There has not been a good case made for Svante's own independent notability and, to repeat, being a "Parent of activist" does not qualify him. Oska (talk) 01:57, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

    • And Stalin's parents? That was the first example I gave. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 07:54, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

  "why wasn't there an afd much more quickly if he is unnotable" - what a non-argument. See WP:ARTICLEAGE. For your other arguments, see WP:OTHERLANGS, WP:ATA#CRYSTAL, WP:WHATABOUTX and WP:NOTINHERITED.110.165.185.203 (talk) 16:02, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  IP, please use one IP. Right now you are editing from two individual IPs. BabbaQ (talk) 16:41, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  BabbaQ, perhaps his IP changed? Most IPs are dynamic. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 16:48, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  • We should treat two IPs as two separate individuals. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:26, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Additional comment, as per Banana Republic just below me, he is ALSO notable as the co-author of this book. And he is famous because of his relationship to his daughter, perhaps not among Swedish people, who are int he ebst position to judge his pre-Greta's fame notability. I had heard of him through reading a number of what would be considered reliable sources simply reading articles about Greta, so for me his notability is absolutely linked-in to his daughter. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:29, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
• Cover (of the first Swedish edition?) of the one book Svane Thunberg has co-authored with his wife. The picture is of Malena Ernberg. The small line above her name is the title of the book ("Sånger från hjärtat"). The minuscule line below her name reads "& Svante Thunberg". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miraclepine (talk • contribs) 16:26, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
  • Note that the "minuscule line" containing the co-author's name is the exact same font size as the book title. Banana Republic (talk) 16:56, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
    • It's not. I compared the capital "S"'s in Photoshop and the font size used for the title is 30% larger than it is for Svante's name. Not that I think this matters that much to anybody who actually clicked through and checked the picture. 2001:240:2409:D0C1:C101:A261:F9E:3773 (talk) 10:12, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
      • • • I'll take your word for it. The 30% difference was not perceptible to my eyes relative to the monster font used for the wife's name. The point is -- the size of the font does not matter, as it's not an indication of level of contribution. Banana Republic (talk) 15:42, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
            • "This is really getting surreal -- talking about the size of the font on the book cover is intellectually equivalent to talking about the size of his dick." If you don't want to argue about the font size, don't make incorrect statements about it and there won't be any need for anybody to correct you. Also please read up on WP:SUMMARYNO.2001:240:2409:D0C1:34CD:6113:4943:DD4A (talk) 00:30, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
      • Also, I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but Banana Republic, I think you should make an effort to use less aggressive summary edits. I'm thinking of "Add your comments as a comment, not in the form of a biased unsigned caption with the bullshit of "The minuscule line below"" & "Are we going to also talk about the size of his dick?" . There's no need for strong language, we're just discussing the notability of a certain person, and it's alright to disagree. 2001:240:2409:D0C1:C101:A261:F9E:3773 (talk) 10:49, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
• Keep: While the subject of this biography clearly fails WP:ENT for his acting career, he seems to pass WP:AUTHOR for co-authoring the book Scenes from the Heart. Banana Republic (talk) 16:44, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
  • In my experience, passing WP:AUTHOR usually requires at least two books with multiple published reviews. In cases where there is only one book, we usually either delete or (if the book is notable itself) redirect to an article about the book. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:33, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I don't see a two book minimum requirement in WP:AUTHOR. Banana Republic (talk) 20:38, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
      • I was referring to typical outcomes of past AfDs, not to the exact wording of that guideline. If you want a policy or guideline that leads to this outcome, I think it's mostly WP:BIO1E. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:53, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
        • Writing a book is not an event covered by WP:BLP1E. WP:BLP1E is for people in the news for a single event. Banana Republic (talk) 20:22, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
          • If the book is the only contribution of his for which we have nontrivial coverage, it's a single event and it is covered by BIO1E. Why do you think books should be treated specially in this regard? —David Eppstein (talk) 20:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
            • Because they're covered by WP:AUTHOR. An author can be famous for a single noteworthy book. Banana Republic (talk) 22:23, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
              • Well then you're going to have to present evidence that he's actually famous for this book and not merely that he was listed as an author for it in much smaller print than his co-author and that it got a few published reviews. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:36, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
                • The book is the basis of his daughter's international campaign. Banana Republic (talk) 22:43, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
                  • You're missing the point. We're not arguing whether the book is famous, or whether his daughter is famous. You're going to have to present evidence that Svante himself is famous for this book, if you want to use a single book as the basis for a notability argument. The fact that he's one of multiple authors and that the book has reviews is too indirect for me. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:11, 28 September 2019 (UTC).
                    • Maybe indirect for you, but conforms with WP:AUTHOR, which specifically allows for co-authorship. Banana Republic (talk) 13:16, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                      • Only a month ago, you not merely !voted delete, but were the nominator of a (successful) AfD on Shallon Lester, who is the sole author of the book "Exes and Ohs" and the co-author of "Hot Mess", both of which have published reviews. Now in this AfD you're arguing that co-authorship of a single book is enough for notability. Perhaps you could explain your inconsistency. —David Eppstein (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                        • I'm glad that you find reviewing my WP contributions to be a good use of your time. The book Exes and Ohs is nowhere even remotely notable. In fact, even the unregistered editor who claimed to be the subject of the biography did not claim notability because of the authorship of that book (she claimed notability for being a YouTube personality). The book Thunberg co-wrote is the motivation for his daughter's international campaign. Banana Republic (talk) 16:13, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                          • . The article on the book is glaringly lacking in third-party sources. Lester's books may be insubstantial popular culture but they appear to have similar numbers of reviews available; notability is not and should not be about our opinions on significance. And it took all of five minutes to scan your recent contributions to AfDs and find you shifting your rationales to support whatever outcome you preferred rather than basing your rationales on consistent principles. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:51, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                            • Add this reference to the book's article. Banana Republic (talk) 18:45, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                              • Yes, that's one. I'm not disputing that the book itself is notable, although we need more than just one review to prove it. But Lester's books (plural) also have published reviews. What makes this one different? —David Eppstein (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                                • You seem to be getting confused, so let me help you get focused. This is not an AfD for the book, nor a DelRev for Shallon Lester. Banana Republic (talk) 19:55, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                                  • Thanks for that pleasant show of civility and ad-hominem argumentation, but you're the one trying to argue that the existence of one book makes Svante notable. I've been trying to push you to back that up with some evidence and all you've done is blather instead. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:50, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
                                    • Absolutely nothing uncivil about pointing out that you are getting off topic, but calling my responses "blather" is definitely uncivil. Banana Republic (talk) 21:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
  • He still fails WP:GNG. Also worth noting what the (first?) cover of said book looks like: the cover features Malena's face and her name in very large letters, with Svante's name below her in a font so small it's barely legible. Doesnt' seem to me like somebody who is a notable author. (in later editions, both of their daughters were also added as co-authors). 110.165.185.203 (talk) 00:43, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
    • You are engaing in original research here with your description of the book cover. Unless you ahve a reliable source for thsi it is irrelevant. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 07:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
      • "Original research" may sound like it is a bad thing in an AfD, but it is not. We engage in it all the time in determining whether subjects of articles meet our criteria. It is only in articles themselves that it should be avoided. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:37, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
        • Show me the relevant policy or guideline or I'm not buying it. If OR has no place in an article it has no place in an argument in an Afd either. Not a reason to revert of course as people are entitled to their say but not a relevant comment either and so should be ignored by the closer. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:12, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
    • The size of the font does not matter. He is a coauthor of the book, and passes WP:AUTHOR criteria #3 which states "The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work". Banana Republic (talk) 20:22, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Richard - I really don't see how it could possibly be "own research" to describe the cover of the book (and like David said, it's apparently irrelevant either way). BananaRepublic - you've got to realize it's quite a stretch to claim Thunberg meets WP:AUTHOR based on the co-authorship of a single book only published in Swedish and German, where the author's name was essentially a foot note in the original Swedish edition, and in the German edition, one of four, not two, co-authors. Beata Thunberg, Svante's and Malena's other daughter, also passes WP:AUTHOR based on the co-authorship then, which is equally bizarre as Svante having his own article. Either way, he still fails WP:GNG (as does Beata), so this whole discussion seems irrelevant. 2001:240:2409:D0C1:C101:A261:F9E:3773 (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
        • I do not necessarily agree with the claim that the author's name was essentially a foot note in the original Swedish edition. I don't know how they decided to design the book's cover, but I suspect that they made the name of the wife in huge font because it's a book about her life, not necessarily because she contributed 10 times more to the book (or whatever factor the font size for the wife's name is relative to the font use for the husband's name). Banana Republic (talk) 15:42, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
• Merge to Greta Thunberg, until sufficient material is added to spin off a separate article, per WP:Summary style, WP:Article size, etc. Pretty close to keep, per Andy Dingley. Would I like to be sealioned about my !vote? No. No, thank you. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:39, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  Again, this is not an article about Greta Thunberg. Again editors seems confused, merging Greta and Svante as one person.Merging this article into Greta article is not an option at this point. May I again repeat to everyone that this is not a !vote on Greta Thunberg.BabbaQ (talk) 20:06, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  BabbaQ, who is saying that this is a vote on Greta? I think everybody knows it's a vote on her dad Svante. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 20:09, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Svante Thunberg is currently 239 words long. Given redundancies, not all of that would even be merged. Here is a sample of featured articles that have more than 300 words describing the subject's relatives: Lisa del Giocondo, W. E. B. Du Bois, Emmeline Pankhurst, Marjory Stoneman Douglas, Kate Sheppard, Josephine Butler, Macfarlane Burnet. Etcetera. These are biographies of long lives; in a very young person's bio parents will play an even larger proportionate role.

RE: "Again editors seems confused, merging Greta and Svante as one person." Don't be a dick. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:45, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

BabbaQ, on the contrary, merge is definitely an option. See Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Common_outcomes#Celebrities. That said, Dennis, I think it's unfair to say you don't want to be "sealioned". AfD's are supposed to be discussions, as I understand it. It feels weird to me then that you state you are essentially not interested in discussing your vote.110.165.185.203 (talk) 01:46, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

The pattern of haranguing an editor as to whether or not they really meant what they said is tiresome and unproductive. The need to bat away uncharitable misinterpretations of our words, like we don't understand the father and daughter are two different people, is exhausting, and it annoys everyone trying to read the discussion for the purpose of getting on with building an encyclopedia. The kind of back and forth that generates doesn't move an AfD towards its ultimate outcome, or help anyone decide what option they support. It bloats the discussion with no benefit. It doesn't help the closer make their decision. It wastes everyone's time.

It's helpful to reply to a !vote if your reply contains information that isn't already present on the page. If you're repeating arguments that were stated above the !vote, you're sealioning. The editor can be presumed to have read those arguments, and if they chose the opposite option, it's tacitly clear that they found those arguments unconvincing. Nobody needs to check back to be sure they're sure that they're sure they were unconvinced. Take the hint. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:09, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Persons should not be merged. And article length shall not decide. Even if the Greta Thunberg article just consisted of a few words, it should be accepted. J 1982 (talk) 08:36, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

They should not be merged without justification. If we go for delete there is plenty of justification here as we often go into some detail about people's unnotable parents. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:15, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

• Strong keep Notable daughter who is managed by notable father for a cause that is probably the most notable one of the current era. --User:Harnad (talk) 18:45, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Those are all arguments from WP:INHERITED. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:04, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
• "managed by" is not an inheritance criterion such as "sired by". Neither is "a cause that is probably the most notable one of the current era". If managing the 16-year-old generator of a global movement critical to the survival of all inhabitants of the planet is not notable, it is hard to imagine what is. I will close with a quote from your WP user page, David: "Misplaced Pages editor (n.) Someone who will not leave a burning building until you show them the newspaper article documenting how many people were killed by the fire." --User:Harnad (talk) 15:15, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Keep, notable person, and notable daughter as well, worthy of inclusion. Davidgoodheart (talk) 19:55, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Davidgoodheart, how is he notable? As the IP pointed above, there are no sources that would prove Svante is notable. Also, notability is NOT WP:INHERITED. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 20:04, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Tyw7, Point well made, thanks for pointed that out.

• Merge, with Greta Thunberg as not independently notable. Would make a good section on his daughters article. Davidgoodheart (talk) 20:13, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
• Delete, Fails WP:GNG ,if someone"s relatives are notable that does not count for himself. Alex-h (talk) 12:37, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
• Comment - I see a lot of Greta, Greta, Greta, this is not an article about Greta Thunberg. A merge of this article into Greta Thunbergs article would be inappropriate. He also covers WP:AUTHOR’s criteria 3. BabbaQ (talk) 08:43, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Please stop WP:BLUDGEONing. You already !voted keep. Ergo, you oppose delete and merge. All you're doing is repeating yourself. If the comments favoring merge had changed your mind, you would have changed your !vote. Since you didn't, everyone can infer that you oppose merging. Posting yet another comment repeating that fills up the page with noise. Have a little faith that everyone heard the first time. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:20, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
    • You literally called me a Dick above in this discussion. If you want to go referring to bludgeoning. Secondly this is not a !vote and it literally stands in tiles. Thirdly this discussion will likely be closed soon and whatever result will be fine. BabbaQ (talk) 06:16, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
• Merge with Greta Thunberg.4meter4 (talk) 03:13, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

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