Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:09, 4 December 2006

Barnstar

I, V. Molotov, hereby give you this barnstar for participation in VfDs.

Molotov (talk) 21:14, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. First time I've been decorated. --MacRusgail 15:32, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Minor Barnstar

In recognition of your many good minor edits. Reyk 22:58, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks! --MacRusgail 22:58, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

• My pleasure. You deserve it. Reyk 23:18, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Dwelly project

Category:Dwelly This category is for articles incorporating text from “Dwelly’s Gaelic Dictionary” (1911) by Edward Dwelly, from that dictionary's encyclopedic entries (rather than just definitions). Where possible/suitable, an English translation is used as the title:

Done (22/03/06)

Aoghairean, Aois-dàna, Brownie (elf) (Uruisg), Canntaireachd, Ciud-siorraig, Clann-an-oistir, Clay-body (Corp-creadha), Còmhla-bhigein, Crann-nan-gad, Crois-iarna (Iron Cross is taken), Crom Dubh (Crum-dubh), Cuirm, Daugh (Dabhach), Druids' glass (Gloine), Druineach, Foot plough (Cas-chrom etc), Force-fire (Tein'-eigin), Half-foot, Lavellan (Labh-allan), liaghra], Long Èireannach, Lèine bhàn, MacGillonie (Sguaban-stothaidh), Matron's badge (Bréid), Muc-sheilch, Ounceland (Unga, Peighinn etc), Oxgang (do.), Pennyland (do.), Religion of the Yellow Stick (Creideamh...), Scottish Gaelic personal naming system (names appendix), Slinneanachd, Sunwise (deiseal), Taghairm, Traditional dyes of the Scottish Highlands (dath), Tulchan (Tulachan), Wonder tuft (Tom-an-ioghnaidh)

Also incorporating some text from Dwelly

• Coracle + Currach (Curach), Drinking horn (Corn), Friday (Di-haoine), Sunwise (Deiseil),

To do

• Aurora borealis (Na fir-chlis), bauk (leum-iochd), Cairn (Carn), Crofter (croitear), Fallaid, faoilteach (+ Faoilleach), gradan, muileann-bra (English title), posting (postadh), poit dubh, propataireachd

Additional

Improve Edward Dwelly's biography.

Re: Edinburgh Suburbs

There's defintely quite a bit of work needed, but hopefully we can get quite a bit done! I'll probably pop into the Edinburgh Room in the George IV Bridge library sometime next week, and I'll try and get a few good books out to add some information to the sparser/non-existant entries. I've seen the mess the Corstorphine entry is in, I live at East Craigs so it's my end of town anyway, I'll see if I can do something about fixing that as well. I'm also hoping to get some more written about Cramond, Barnton and Gogar, as well as starting the 'Cammo' article.

I've also got a large number of photographs that I've taken in and around Edinburgh, so I'll use those to illustrate articles when necessary. Pinkyogamuffin 17:43, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I've been thinking of going out for a wander with my camera, so perhaps we could try and co-ordinate, which pictures to take. Corstorphine Kirk needs a picture, and Cramond can be easily fixed. I want to start a new article for Cramond Island. BTW, I have plenty of info on Cammo. In fact I've a whole book on it, which some lad brought out about ten years ago, and the Maitland-Tennant family. Very interesting. That's one I've been planning to start. --MacRusgail 17:07, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. Regarding Cramond Island, it just so happens that I've started an art project inspired by the place, and in particular the abandoned WW2-era buildings there. I've been searching out all the information I can about it, so I'd be happy to help out with that one. Also, I've read that very same book on Cammo that you have, it was a few years ago so the details are a little hazy in my mind, but I remember it was an interesting read. I go there often and have quite literally hundreds of pictures of the place! Pinkyogamuffin 20:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind, but I've gone ahead and started the Cramond Island article myself. Some of my writing is a bit clumsy and could definitely stand to be edited, but I think I've put most of the important information in. I've also got a few photos to add. Also, thought I better mention the places I have a lot of photos of, to save us any double work! I have plenty of photos of: Cammo, Newhaven, Cramond, Gogar, the Old Town, the Water of Leith, the River Almond, the Dalmeny Estate, South Queensferry, Rosslyn, Seton Sands, Arthur's Seat, the Botanic Gardens, Leith and probably a few other places I'm forgetting! :) (P.S: To save any confustion, 'Struan' is a nickname...I'm still Pinkyogamuffin.) Struan 16:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

This is perfectly okay, I was intending to do so at some point. I will have to dig about, but I have photos of Arthur's Seat (hasn't everyone?!), Corstorphine, Craigmillar Castle, Inchcolm etc amongst others. I may go round on a free day and take some pics... however, as you know, the light isn't great just now. --MacRusgail 20:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Tillicoultry

Hello, I do a bit of work on the Tillicoultry page. I noticed your gaelic proficiency on wiki:babel, so I thought I'd ask- The Tillicoultry pages states "Tillicoultry (Tullich Cul Tir in Scots Gaelic - "At the foot of the hills")". Can you verify this? Is it correct? Cheers. Hellinterface 21:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. Personally I doubt it, it reminds me of the derivations given by various ministers in the Statistical Account. I look up what it is in modern Gaelic, and it is "Tulach Cultaire" but I am not sure how close this is to the original. Tilly almost certain represents tulach, a mound, which appears in other placenames as "Tully"/"Tullie"/"Tulloch" etc I'm going to do some research on this. --MacRusgail 21:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Cheers for the speedy response! I've also seen it described as meaning "hill in the back land", don't know if that is any help. Hellinterface 10:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Gaelic Traditionalism

Agus Tapadh Leibh for attaching the NPOV tag, as well as your valiant attempts to clarify the situation for the initial authors of the article. As the initial authors are new to Misplaced Pages, it seems they are unfamiliar with many Wiki conventions, such as NPOV and the purpose of Talk pages, let alone how to transform their personal essay into something suitable for Misplaced Pages. Thankfully, some determined souls have just plunged in and begun the editing. I would encourage you to help with this if you can stomach it, as your expertise in the area of traditional culture is valuable, and a needed counterpoint to what is currently there. The piece is so thoroughly POV the edits will need to be quite bold if anything of it is to be salvaged, but so far the initial authors actually seem to appreciate the moves that have been made in that direction. Martin MacGrath 23:41, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind comments. I'm not sure I'm really up to doing the whole process of editing the entire article but it seemed obvious they needed a kickstart on NPOV. Despite numerous suggestions about it and general Misplaced Pages standards, they seemed mired in an argumentative process that didn't seem to be going anywhere. I can only hope that, with the small example I edited to guide them, some positive progress can be made. I'll be trying to keep my hand in it. Please consider keeping up with the article. Your input and feedback on the subject is very refreshing and, in my opinion, needed. Your suggestions and points appeared reasonable and valid to me. --Mac 05:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• I thought you might be interested to know that I have done significant work on the Gaelic Traditionalism article. If you have a chance to pop by and give some feedback, I'd appreciate it. It is significantly shorter and more NPOV now. Not perfect, but much better, IMHO. I've also archived a good bit of the talk page so it isn't such a monster to navigate. --Mac 23:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• • The POV and non-encyclopedic tone is creeping back in already. What needs to be addressed is the current contributor's insistence that those who disagree with his views are "non-Traditionalists". He seems convinced he can radically redefine Gaelic terminology and beliefs and then claim the broader culture is wrong. I think you were most persuasive in demonstrating that they cannot claim their minority views are "Traditionalist" when they are in disagreement with Gaelic traditional culture. --Martin MacGrath 22:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

• • • I think what's needed is a few more eyes on the page. I've been spreading the word round, and I have also listed it in several places as a contentious page. Not only does he "redefine" Gaelic terminology, he in fact uses pseudo-Gaelic in many places... I've nothing against learners' Gaelic, which will have faults etc, but when it pretends to be some ancient thing (note the MODERN Irish spelling used too), it's simply bogus. --MacRusgail 19:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could take a look at the Gaelic Traditionalism article which atm is bordering on dispute. Ive inserted (and later had removed by the author) a disclaimer line - "This movement has little support amongst the remaining Gaelic communities of Scotland or Ireland." - pointing out the movements lack of a basis in the genuine Gaelic communities of Scotland and Ireland but could do with some alternate views and input on the matter. The article itself is of dubious encyclopedia quality imo but that is as aside, my problem with it is that it gives the misleading impression that there is a genuine connection between the article matter and the Gaels/Gaidhealtachd/Gaeltachts of the two Gaelic nations. Le Meas, siarach 00:36, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Cuttie-stool, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Place names United Kingdom

Hi. I was looking at place names in the United Kingdom beginning with C, which is still being wikified and noticed that someone appears to have lost the places between Castle Ashby and Ceann a Bhaigh. I am new to wikipedia so i'm not sure if i've correctly spotted the data loss was a result of a change you made or if it was someone else.--Alistair.swanson 00:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Chanter / Practice chanter merge proposal

The merge sounds like a good idea. I am the original (and still about 95% author) of the practice chanter article. The reason they are separate is because I have been playing the practice chanter and have only just recently started on the bagpipes, so didn't feel qualified to write anything about that instrument. It does look like the chanter article needs to be expanded somewhat in addition to the adducemtn of the practice chanter material. I do believe the practice chanter should be discussed separately (though in the same article) since it is the instrument that folks start out on.

The photos are mine and I have been meaning for some time to re-shoot them. Thare is no reason to do this prior to the merge, though. I can also take some shots of the bagpipe and chanter. In fact, I think there may be some (of mine) over at Wikimedia commons (category:Highland games). Feel free to copy this note over to the discussion pages of the articles if you want. JFPerry 18:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure which should be merged into which, but it's kind of clear that they're about more or less the thing... and for what it's worth, your 95% is better. The chanter taken separately is a practice chanter, but as part of the pipes it isn't much different to the drones etc, which don't have their own article. --MacRusgail 18:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC) p.s. I have created Category:Bagpiping today, and also worked on canntaireachd some more, if you're interested.

Actually, what you just said here got me to thinking, because, really, the practice chanter and the bagpipe chanter are not the same thing at all. The practice chanter is a musical instrument in its own right and is played as such. The bagpipe chanter is not an instrument in its own right. Although it can be blown or sounded (or even played, for that matter) separately from the bagpipes, fundamentally it is a part of the bagpipes, like the drone pipes, and not a separate instrument. It has no top piece. To play it separately, you insert the strock (and reed) into your mouth and blow on it. This is a really yucky experience and is generally done only to test a reed or some similar purpose.

So my second-thoughts is that chanter (being a part of the bagpipes) should be merged into bagpipes, and practice chanter should be left as a separate article based on the fact that it is, or can be, and often is played as, a separate instrument in its own right. JFPerry 14:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Parochial vs Rural

Hi!

This is in relation the 'is doric stronger in _parochial_ or _rural_ parts' editing on the Inverurie page.

Whilst I agree that adjective 'parochial' may be construed as as offensive, it is not correct to say that rural areas have a stronger doric culture- indeed the smaller Aberdeenshire villages often have the most immigration from other parts of the UK (if this all sounds a bit settler-watch/neo-nazi, trust me, it is not meant to) and hence the mildest dialects, whilst the larger towns such as Banff, Fraserburgh and Peterhead, are the places where Doric thrives the most.

So- what is better way of saying parochial in this context? I was thinking perhaps 'insular', 'isolated' or perhaps a fluffy term such as 'far-flung'. What are your thoughts? Fergie 12:05, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I see your point. However, larger towns with middle class populations/commuter belts, tend in my experience to speak something closer to RP. This is because the further up the social scale you tend to go in Scotland, the more anglicised people are, with the aristocracy usually having little to mark them out as Scottish other than their property, and some token sentiment. However, I think TV has probably caused more anglicisation/standardisation of speech, whether English dialects, Welsh, or Doric, in the last 30 or so years. But in general, I tend to find, that the larger the town, the more watered down the local accent is - including working class folk. --MacRusgail 17:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Cailleach

I attempted the beginnings of a rewrite on this one, as it was a mess of bs when I found it the other day. I left some of the dodgy bits in, so as not to totally eviscerate what was there and start an edit war. I guess I was not bold enough. I would appreciate your input or help on what to take out or rewrite. Do you think it's worth going through and citing the bits I have sources for (McNeill et al), and deleting all the unsourced stuff, or do you think we should completely start over with it? Beannachd Leibh, --Kathryn NicDhàna 18:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

A bhana-charaid, as usual it's really hard to separate the bs from the real stuff. I think that the Encyclopedia Mythica seems to have a lot to answer for. I would trust McNeill over some of the really dubious stuff in there. All the best, --MacRusgail 18:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I've got Gearóid Ó Crualaoich's The Book of the Cailleach (2003, Cork University Press) here, as well The Gaelic Otherworld - Ronald Black's (2005, Birlinn, Edinburgh) extensive edit and annotations of J.G. Campbell's Superstitions in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland and Witchcraft and the Second Sight in the Highlands and Islands. Not sure how soon I'll get to it, but maybe after I've finished reading these I can take another stab at the page, and dump anything that can't be sourced. IIRC, all the bits I added (from memory) are from McNeill, but I have no idea where some of the stuff previous editors included is from. I suspect some (most? all?) of those things will not be sourceable... or, at least not in reliable sources. Tapadh Leibh for your input, --Kathryn NicDhàna 00:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Mopeds and Mod Culture

Hello there,

I do a bit of editing on the moped article, and I just read your recent edit where you noted:

Mopeds were popular with Mods in England, and the Mod Revival.

I'm definitely no expert on Mod culture, but I wonder if you didn't mean scooters instead? As I understood it, mopeds had little popularity in the UK other than some early autocycles manufactured there. --Charleschuck 04:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I always tend to think of a scooter as one of those things that children push along the road. I thought mopeds were more or less the same thing, and one was a kind of the other. --MacRusgail 14:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I suppose the similarity is that, in many jurisdictions, any small motor driven cycle can be classified legally as a moped—including some scooters. Only very small scooters, however, fall within the legal definition. Physically, in general, mopeds almost always have pedals, and rarely have leg shields and never floorboards, whereas scooters never have pedals, and almost always have leg shields and always floorboards. --Charleschuck 16:41, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion

Hello! I noticed that you have been a contributor to articles on Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion. You may be interested in checking out a new WikiProject - WikiProject Anglicanism. Please consider signing up and participating in this collaborative effort to improve and expand Anglican-related articles! Cheers! Fishhead64 22:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Lavellan

Thought you might be interested to know that Fortean Times (issue #211) recently had brief article on the lavellan and used the Misplaced Pages article as its source, calling it a "short but tantalisingly intriguing entry on a truly obscure cryptid". Always nice to have good press. --Joelmills 03:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Joel, I read it regularly, and saw it in the current hard issue. I intend to get in touch with the writer. --MacRusgail 17:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Pages listed on Categories for deletion

Discussion on CFD - proposal to merge all subcats of Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Scottish constituencies up into the main cat. Relevant categories which would be deleted are:

• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Aberdeen constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Dundee constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Edinburgh constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Fife constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Glasgow constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Highland constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Orkney and Shetland
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Paisley constituencies
• Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Stirling constituencies

I think that this is a rather important discussion for editors interested in Scotland-related articles, especially Scottish politics and Scottish biographical articles (particularly local history). Please have a read and ponder, and contribute to the debate if you like. Thanks. --Mais oui! 17:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It would also be relevant in this context to consider the discussions in the parent category for the UK parliament: Category talk:British MPs. I find it regrettable that Mais oui! has engaged in a restructuring of that category without entering into the discussions there. --BrownHairedGirl 17:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_23#Category:Members_of_the_United_Kingdom_Parliament_from_Scottish_constituencies is just about to close. I would really appreciate your contribution, because this debate needs some serious input. --Mais oui! 09:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Redirect vote

Dia duit MacRusgail. You might want to vote on this redirect as the article's current function is to say that part of Ireland is part of Britain (as opposed to the UK): Talk:Britain El Gringo 14:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Scotland

Pre-script: we are currently undergoing peer review, see: Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Scotland.

I am beginning to think that the Scottish Wikipedians' notice board is not the best vehicle for pushing up the quality of the Scotland article (we ought to try to get it to WP:FA, in order to get into Misplaced Pages:Version 0.5, or, failing that, Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0), and the other key Scottish articles. It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that we really ought to start up the long-mooted WikiProject Scotland.

Most of the stuff at the notice board (at least on the bottom half) is actually WikiProject material anyway, and the Talk page is really being used as a WikiProject talk already! The notice board should be just that: for bunging up brief notices and signposts. I am thinking of launching a Wikiproject and correspondingly radically clearing out, and chopping down, the noticeboard (a re-launch if you like). The Scotland Portal concept is fine (but currently mediocre/undynamic content), but in stasis: it needs a good kick up the jacksie.

For comparison, have a look at:

• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Norway
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Australia
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject New Zealand
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Peru
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Hong Kong
• etc.

And, if you are at a loose end, have a look at:

• Misplaced Pages:Version 0.5 Nominations
• Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Nominations
• Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/WPPlaces
• Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Medieval Scotland articles by quality
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject/Best practices

Thoughts? Please express them here. --Mais oui! 18:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Spiddal

Its long-held concensus (see the Irish manual of style to use the English names, wheter they be official or not. --Kiand 19:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, well "An Spidéal" is now the official English name too. Why not move Beijing and Dun Laoghaire back. --MacRusgail 19:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

No, its the official name, not the "official English name", as there is no official English name. Beijing is the English translation of the new Chinese name, Dun Laoghaire is what that town is known as in English. Spiddal, however, is known as Spiddal in English. --Kiand 19:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi MacRusgail. I have to agree with Kiand on this one. The convention on the english language wikipedia (for articles on institutions/places/etc with both english and irish official names) is to use the English name first, followed by Irish. See for example:

• Cork - From article intro: "Cork (Corcaigh in Irish)..."
• Republic of Ireland - From article intro: "Republic of Ireland (Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann)..."
• Electricity Supply Board - From article intro: "Electricity Supply Board (ESB) (Bord Soláthair an Leictreachais in Irish)..."
• Naval Service Reserve - From article intro: "Naval Service Reserve (NSR) (or Cúltaca Na Seirbhíse Cabhlaigh in Irish)"
• etc

This convention stands because, while obviously specific Irish places and institutions (and particularly those i gceantair Ghaeltachta) look to their name in irish primarily, this wikipedia is for english speakers primarily, and therefore articles should focus on the english language title.

Consider for example the article relating to Osaka. It follows the same convention for the same reason. Namely, that while the official title of the city is "大阪市" or "Ōsaka-shi", on the english language wikipedia, the articles is named and titled as below:

Osaka (大阪市, Ōsaka-shi) is the capital of Osaka Prefecture...

Similarly therefore, the article on Spiddal should be named and titled as:

Spiddal (Irish: An Spidéal) is a village on the shore of Galway Bay...

I am myself am a contributor to the Irish language wikipedia at ga.wikipedia.org , and very interested in maintaining articles in Irish. You will note that on an vicipéid as gaeilge, the convention is the same (but reversed) and ga:An Spidéal is titled as:

Is baile é An Spidéal (Spiddal nó Spiddle as Béarla) atá i gContae na Gaillimhe...

In a imilar fashion, the same convention should be followed on the english language wikipedia. Le meas. Guliolopez 20:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This is all fine and well, but are any of you aware that the names in the Gaeltachtai have all been changed to their Irish versions recently? This means that names in the Gaeltacht are now all Irish, even in English (Ireland being largely English speaking of course), but that names such as Dublin and Cork retain their English equivalents in official usage. --MacRusgail 17:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

You're wrong. The official name is now in Irish, this does NOT carry to the English version no longer exists. Anyway, this is completely irrelevant, as this isn't a Government document, its the Misplaced Pages. The Placenames Order does not apply here, however the Manual of Style and the convention to use English on articles does. Please cease vandalising articles, as your actions cannot be described as anything else. --Kiand 17:50, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

No I'm not wrong. It was China who changed the name of "Peking" in English, not the English speakers. In this case, you have a largely English speaking country changing the name to another version IN ENGLISH. This is not vandalism, it is factual. I doubt most wikipedians are aware that this change even took place. --MacRusgail 18:07, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

p.s. What about Dun Laoghaire? Not in the Gaeltacht, but changed by the Irish government, as An Spideal has been. Seems like double standards here - I don't see you demanding for it to be returned to "Kingstown".

You clearly don't understand the rules here (or, indeed, the Placenames Order), and I'm wasting my time explaining them. If you continue to change articles to use Irish versions of names, you are liable to be blocked. Please stop now. --Kiand 18:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Kiand, answer the question. Why are you not moving Beijing or Dun Laoghaire back? Both of these have been officially renamed, as have names in the Gaeltachtai. Where is the consistency here? I understand the rules fine well, but not the inconsistent application of them. --MacRusgail 18:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Because they are the most commonly used names in the English language. If you'd actually read the manual of style, you would know that this is the criteria for deciding the article title and the usage of the name elsewhere. Surreally, the most ccommonly used name for Spiddal in English is Spiddal. --Kiand 18:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Most commonly used by whom? I don't find this surreal at all. In the near future, the colloquial use of An Spideal is going to far outstrip that of Spiddal, just as you never hear of Peking anymore. It has been the ONLY name used in government documents for a number of months now. --MacRusgail 18:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

And this is now, not the near future. If and when people begin to call it "An Spideal", the article should be moved. This has not happened. The Misplaced Pages is not a crystal ball, nor is it a vehicle for users personal viewpoints and opinions. --Kiand 18:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

People have been calling it An Spideal for centuries. Spiddal has no currency whatsoever. I know old folk who still talk about Rhodesia, Ceylon and Siam - there's probably hundreds of thousands of such people. Doesn't mean Rhodesia has any proper meaning anymore than "Southern Ireland", "Free State".

And all of this is your opinion, and hence not encyclopedic. Also, I believe 80+ years of being the official name as well as still being the English language name (despite what you claim, the Placenames Order just nullified the official status of English names, it did not remove them or make them become the Irish version) is the "currency" required. If you want some proof of just how far away we are from "An Spideal" being the most commonly used term in English, if indeed at all, we have in excess of 100,000 google hits for "Spiddal" and 585 for "An Spideal".

As I said, come back and move it when it is unequivacably the most commonly used term in the English. Until then, I'd advise editing the Irish language Misplaced Pages if you wish to further the language, rather than vandalising the English language one. --Kiand 18:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not my opinion. It's Irish law. And it applies in English too, surprisingly enough. As for google - if anyone quoted it in Britannia article, or in an academic paper - they'd probably be laughed off. It is a commercial service, run for profit, hardly reliable. --MacRusgail 18:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Its Irish law you clearly don't understand in the slightest. The law behind the "Placenames Order", namely Section 5 of 32/2003, The Official Languages Act says nothing about the English language version of a place name ceasing to exist. It states that:

 the English language version of the placename shall no longer have any force and effect as on and from the operative date but without prejudice to anything done before or after that date including the use of that version other than its use

Now, where does that state that the English version ceases to exist? Nowhere. Where does it state that the English language version of a place name suddenly becomes that of the Irish version? Nowhere. It states that the official name is now in Irish. That is all. Please stop pretending that a law, which you clearly never read let alone studied, enforces something that it plainly doesn't. --Kiand 18:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

That's legalese to say that the English version has no currency ("force and effect") --MacRusgail 18:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

In official documents, yes, but the Misplaced Pages is not an official document of the Irish government. It does not, at any stage, confirm your outlandish claims that the Irish language version of a place name is now also the English language version - you made this up. You made it up in order to further your viewpoint, which comes under WP:NOT also. I am not going to continue this, except by reminding you again that you are vandalising articles when you move them or change the names used within. --Kiand 18:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

If you think it's outrageous, complain to the Oireachtas not me. The English name is now as redundant as the dodo. And I suspect that the European Union shall not be using the English version officially either anymore. --MacRusgail 18:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Vote

There is a vote going on at Talk:Cináed I of Scotland to move loads of early Scottish kings to anachronistic English names which are going out of favour in English language publications. People supporting the move have no knowledge or contribution history in the area, yet the wiki pop voting will nevertheless result in a victory unless they are opposed. Regards. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 16:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Traditional dies

In the article Traditional dyes of the Scottish Highlands, you listed Drosera rotundifolia as both a purple and yellow die. I've included this information in the sundew article I've been working on, but would like to cite the statement. Did this information come from the "Dwelly’s Gaelic Dictionary” (1911) (Dath) listed at the bottom of the page? If not, could you list or tell me the source so I can cite the info in the sundew article? Many thanks! --NoahElhardt 21:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The information is from Dwelly's dictionary. I'm afraid that I don't know too much about the dyes myself. --MacRusgail 15:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Scottish Rifle Volunteers

I just noticed this article, and it's somewhat confusing.

There doesn't seem to have been any specific regiment or group called the "Scottish Rifle Volunteers"; the Rifle Volunteer Corps were a plethora of small local bodies formed across the country in the 1850s-1870s, and absorbed into regular regiments as reserve volunteers in 1881, as what would become the Territorials. Poking around, the DNB says he was in the 2nd Lanarkshire Rifle Volunteer Corps, which finally turns up here/& here.

I've corrected the Rankine article; do you mind if I just list this page for deletion? There doesn't seem to be anywhere obvious to redirect it to, and a disambig would be a bit useless as we're very unlikely to end up with articles on the individual corps... Shimgray | talk | 15:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This makes perfect sense. But then again, the "2ndLRVC" may be worth a short article noting his membership. I would like to see the Rankine article eventually reach a quality where it can become featured, if only on the Scottish portal.--MacRusgail 13:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what's the best way to deal with small units like these. The problem is that it didn't really become anything - it amalgamated and redesignated and was absorbed and then redesignated again and then regimented and then territorialised and after about forty years of paperwork it became an unrecorded ancestor of one of the Territorial battalions of the Cameronians in WWI - which had, it seems, since lost all connection to the original body. This link, though, is far enough in the past that it's hardly worth mentioning in the regimental article, and far enough in the future that it would seem out-of-place in Rankine's.

Perhaps a link out to an article on the Rifle Volunteer movement would be most sensible, though I don't think we've written one yet! I'll put it on the to-do list. Shimgray | talk | 14:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Novels WikiProject

Hi, and welcome to the Novels WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of topics related to fiction books often refered to as "Novels".

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the members, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! :: Kevinalewis : /_(Desk) 10:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Scotland

Following a successful period of consultation WikiProject Scotland has now been launched. As a participant in the Scottish Wikipedians' notice board I wonder if you may be interested in this new endeavour too? If so, please sign-up here. The WikiProject will be replacing some of the functions of the notice board, especially those in the lower half.

While I am here, please also have a look at the new Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Scotland and give it a "Watch". It was started up by User:Visviva a few days ago, after long being mooted at the notice board, and effectively replaces all the AfD listings at the notice board. Being a transclusion of all the on-going discussions it is a much more useful tool.

Even if you do not want to spend too much time on the WikiProject, please give it a "Watch" and feel free to contribute to Talk page discussions: the more contributors the merrier.

All the best. --Mais oui! 10:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV (September 2006)

The September 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 12:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Nav bars

Hi - Whilst I agree that nav bars often help to navigate around wikipedia, what I've removed from the Cornwall pages I felt were cluttering the articles, many of which already have far too many nav bars as it is. All of the links contained within it and more are already linked to at List of topics related to Cornwall. Whilst I am not familiar with History of the Jews in Scotland(?) ,I have put in a lot of work in across Cornwall pages and am dedicated to improving this particular niche of pages so what I have done was not an arbitary decision as you have implied. When this template was placed indiscriminately across all the Cornwall pages before, I removed it and explained my reasoning here at User talk:Lofty#Cornwall_Template. However, the user could not be bothered to response to this so I don't really think I'm acting out of place in removing what I think is unsuitable this time. Something like this should be discussed with the wider community - there is a Cornwall portal and a wikiproject which are suitable forums for this. I'm quite happy to discuss how the bar can be modified to make it more relevent and look less cluttered. take care Mammal4 13:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The Duchy of Lancashire and other most other UK areas have their own nav box ! A nav box would be helpful for some Cornish articles.

Not disputing that nav boxes are useful - just that the current one being applied could be better designed and less cluttered and also more descriminately applied to articles, especially if there are already many existing boxes on that page (a can't see the wood for the trees effect) take care Mammal4 08:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Which is why I am currently redesigning the Cornish nav box. --MacRusgail 14:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC) p.s. I didn't write the comment you just replied to.

Ok - maybe some discussion would help the redesign? Mammal4 12:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC) ps sorry for confusing you with the anon author - from the pattern of page edits I thought it was you not being logged in Mammal4

I have been working on something similar to the England and Scotland navigation boxes. I thought something more complicated might be useful for Cornwall, due to its complex history, political situation and language etc. --MacRusgail 15:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I definitely think that a show hide feature would be an asset - that way the topics can be covered in the depth they deserve whilst the template remains innocuous. I also think it should stretch across the whole page not just two thirds length. It would be nice to theme the colour scheme too - maybe something in Cornish colours (Black, yellow white)? Maybe also a small Cornwall map as I have done with this template I made for Cornish parishes Mammal4 16:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC) ps I'm moving this discussion to the template discussion page Mammal4

Scott, novels project

If you want to rerate Scott novels to high, I certainly won't stand in your way. The only formal part of the rating process that I'm aware of is for top importance, so go ahead and rerate. I think arguably most or all of Scott's novels should be high (with possible exceptions like Count Robert of Paris, that are basically unread and barely in print), but I didn't want to rock the boat too much. john k 16:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

From Austrians

EPF, not only are we on different pages of the book, but we're on different worlds. I understand you not, nor could I begin to. You apply different rules to how you regard the judgement of history in both a British context and the German/Austrian one. I say black, and you will say white. You are the perpetual driver of wedges between English and Scottish/Welsh relations/articles on wikipedia. You really need to chill Enzedbrit 07:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

And you're constantly trying to bang the "we're all British gong". Sorry, the Scots, Welsh and Irish all came into "union" because of either invasion or corrupt treaties. By the way, I would refer anyone to "NZ Birt"'s edits on various Celtic articles if they're interested in his constant POV edits, which reflect his disturbed childhood, which involved a traumatic move from England to NZ, and his subsequent identity crisis. --MacRusgail 16:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• What are you doing MacRusgail? Trolling my posts looking to rebut? Or are you so far up EPF's arse that you can't help follow him around? Mate, you and me face to face - I'd love to let rip. (unsigned by EnzedBrit)

I am not your "mate", pal. :) Now bug off, and see a shrink. You're a New Zealander pretending to be English, or an Englishman with a Kiwi accent, and the obvious neuroses to match. --MacRusgail 16:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue V - October 2006

The October 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 20:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Celtic_Alliance_of_America

Locations in the highlands.

I can't help but feel that you should substitute "...in the Highland region" with "...in the Highland region of Scotland". It is only the Scottish location stub that makes it clear which Highlands these articles refer to. Anyway, keep up the good work. -- IslaySolomon | talk 16:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, I hate to use the phrase "Highland Region", though, for the simple reason that the Scottish Highlands and Highland Region are NOT one and the same, and have quite different boundaries.--MacRusgail 16:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Merges from Cornish language Misplaced Pages

Hi, can I ask why you are merging Cornish language text into the English language Misplaced Pages? I feel that it is likely to be confusing to many users - surely the Cornish language Misplaced Pages is the appropriate place for contributions in the Cornish language? I haven't reverted any of the edits you've done, but do suspect that other editors might. DuncanHill 18:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back - it makes sense now! :) DuncanHill 17:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VI - November 2006

The November 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 21:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Devon Flag

Hey MacRusgail, it's 163.1.165.116 here. Just thought I'd ask you to check out Talk:Flag of Devon, where I've left a note concerning your recent edits to that page. Thanks, --163.1.165.116 17:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

RBS =

You should see Talk:Royal Bank of Scotland, where Astrolain is pushing his Scottophobic POV. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

fal

Hi MacRusgail

"Spelling without the apologetic apostrophe is a modern innovation" You replied: No it isn't. Look at texts in pre-modern Lowland Scots, including ones from the middle ages.

You are right, fa can be found. According to DOST faw was also used so it seemingly isn't a modern spelling either. 84.135.218.142 14:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

pls don't revert like that

re Jindyworobak_Movement as it stands the lead is potentially misleading & needs qualification. i've changed it back, pls discuss before reverting anything other than vandalism as per recomended procedure. also this rather important fact about the members is mentioned once, in the last section. as u seem to be unaware of the context, i shld point out that these people are commonly derided now as racist/ethnocentric for their appropriation of indigenous culture to their own nationalistic ends. i will put something to this effect in the last section when i can source it. the common perception of them now is also more in line w/ hope's 1st comment. please be a bit careful in areas you are apparently unfamiliar with. thx  ⇒ bsnowball  10:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

This is not a text messaging service, please write in proper English, i.e. using capital letters, full words, and punctuation. Yes, I'm sure that these people are accused of appropriating indigenous culture - that's the po-mo fashion. On the other hand, in a few years, it may just well be appreciated that they pioneered an "Australian" culture which actually included the natives. --MacRusgail 16:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

pettiness aside, please aquaint yourself with the topic. these people knew next to nothing about indigenous culture & what did come from reliable sources they over-generalised, there was a massive diversity of culture here of which they were ignorant, this is one of the reasons jindy is thought of as a bit of a joke now. (the writing was arguably 2nd rate too, but...) they were most certainly not the first writers to notice indigenous australians. coincidently, the 1st published indigenous writer David Unaipon, was writing at about about the same time. the point is that they did not include the 'natives', they were using odd bits and pieces of indigenous culture for their own purposes. there was nothing new about that. also some of the people i removed because they had nothing to do with jindy were producing a more uniquely oz culture. if you are actually interested in the topic, why don't you follow it up? it'd be better than indulging in rhetorical point scoring, & you might even be able to contribute constructively to the topic.  ⇒ bsnowball  12:29, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a shift key on your computer, or are you trying to copy e.e. cummings? Unaipon was the first printed Aboriginal writer, but there wasn't another one, to my knowledge until the 60s, when the Jindyworobaks were over. The idea that you must stick solely to your own ethnic culture is in itself racist.--MacRusgail 16:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Novels Collaboration of the Month

You supported Waverley (novel), which has been selected as the Novels WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Month. Please help improve this article towards featured article standard. :: Kevinalewis : /_(Desk) 11:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

re your insulting comments & continued reverting on Talk:Jindyworobak Movement

Could I suggest that mundane editorial disagreements are most likely to resolve quickly and productively when editors observe the following:

• Remain polite per WP:Civility.
• Solicit feedback and ask questions.
• Keep the discussion focused. Concentrate on a small set of related matters and resolve them to the satisfaction of all parties.
• Focus on the subject rather than on the personalities of the editors.

Thanks!

this regarding your claims about racism, and your comments about 'literacy' etc. it would also help if you read WP:CITE on how to reference properly and of course if you read my comments, you would find i had answered your 'objections' already. most importantly your opinions on the topic are innapropriate & that there is nothing there i need to source as i am removing or, in a single instance, clarifying what you have put there.  ⇒ bsnowball  17:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)