Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:24, 9 December 2006

Ilena's introductory remarks

I have made proper and appropriate edits for this page.

The losing plaintiffs publicist, Paul Lee, has erased them and is severely MISREPRESENTING the facts of this case.

The comments of the EFF are totally relevant, as is who Ilena Rosenthal is.

Barrett can not be allowed to control this board by his sychophant Paul Lee.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ilena (talk • contribs) 15:15, December 6, 2006 (UTC)

I thought you were banned from this page. In any case, some of your changes are inappropriate, including your affiliations. The fact that the California Supreme Court (improperly) ruled that malicious reposting of libelous material cannot be legally libel is of some interest, but it's dicta in this case, as the lower court on remand decided there was no libelous material posted. And there are a few other errors in your changes. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 15:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I never even saw this page until yesterday. Paul Lee does indeed work for Barrett.

There are no errors. YOU think you know more than the Supreme Court of California????

I have done nothing but provide appropriate links ... the original writing was absolutely biased.

What the EFF writes is far more relevant than Paul Lee who works for Barrett.

Ilena 15:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC) Ilena Rosenthal

I'm not going to report you for your violation of No Personal Attacks this time, but don't do it again or you risk getting blocked (again). This is not your usual Usenet forum where anything goes.

I am definitely not Barrett's (sic) "publisist", nor have I misrepresented anything. My revert was because of several things related to Misplaced Pages policy and how things are done here:

• Your edits were very poorly worded and not encyclopedic.

• You are a subject of this article, so your edits are potential violations of WP:COI, so it would be better if you presented your information here on the talk page and let other editors include it in a proper manner. It may well be good information.

• You keep editing under various IPs. Remember to sign in and edit only using your current user name. Your use of various IPs can be construed as bad faith attempts to deprive other editors of the ability to understand your pattern of editing. That practice is not only forbidden here, you actually have fewer rights as an editor:

Users with "anonymous IP numbers do not have the same civil rights as logged in members of the community. If you want to be a good editor, get an account, make good edits." -- Jimbo Wales

Now just present your information here and let other editors place it in the article in an appropriate and encyclopedic manner. -- Fyslee 15:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I posted under my own name and have not changed ISP's nor attempted to be anonymous.

The editors (not Barrett related) should be aware that Paul Lee (fyslee) works directly with the losing plaintiffs in this case and is putting biased information here and deleting relevant facts from this case. Whoever Rubin is, he was abolutely wrong in claiming I was banned from this page ... I never saw it until yesterday when the one-sided, incomplete facts of this case were sent to me.

This is unconscionable that Rubin and Lee are erasing the comments of the EFF which are entirely relevant to this case.

IlenaIlena Rosenthal

As for being banned, I thought User:Ilena was banned from all articles related to Stephen Barrett. This article is clearly related, even if it wasn't here at the time of the ban. (I could be wrong, though, and I don't have time to check at the moment, being on my way to a doctor's appointment.)

And I may very well know more about section 230 than the California Supreme Court. It's a federal law, and may not immunize actors against state actions, unless the state so (mis)-interprets it. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 16:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

She's now been blocked for WP:3RR, although adding the 2 anons which are probably her, I count 6. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 16:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ilena's IDs here at Misplaced Pages

Just for the record: I don't know what Paul Lee's problem is ... I am very upfront about who I am. He attempted in the past to block my corrections to the disinformation posted here regarding this case. I am in Costa Rica travelling. What is the significance of his posting the various servers that I connect with? I will also note that Terry Polevoy has expressed continual obsessions with my physical location ... something that should be of no interest to him whatsoever. That his team mate Paul Lee is repeating this behavior is quite troubling to me for my personal safety.

Ilenal Rosenthal

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Ilena

Some of the IPs Ilena Rosenthal has used here at Misplaced Pages:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/200.122.153.238
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/196.40.14.167
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/196.40.13.172
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/196.40.12.235
• http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/196.40.12.109

-- Fyslee 08:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Possible solution

Here is the link to the actual ruling: . This specifically states: "As the lower courts correctly concluded, however, none of the hostile comments against Dr. Barrett alleged in the complaint are defamatory." Perhaps to show Ileana that your efforts are in good faith, Arthur Rubin and Fyslee can bring more information from this ruling into the article. Just a suggestion. Levine2112 20:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for this suggestion.

I was shocked to see the one-sided version of this 6 years of litigation. On the page about Stephen Barrett personally, the false fact had been written that he lost this case because he was a "public figure." That is definitively NOT what the court ruled. Further,

Christopher Grell, who sued me although I had never mentioned his name, had the audacity to post this alse statement publicly and repeatedly ... here is one example of him trying to change the facts of the Court's opinion. Proven????? Never.

http://p2pnet.net/index.php?page=comment&story=9894&comment=120221

"Let me make it clear, Rosenthal was named in the lawsuit because she continued to repost the same proven libelous publication over and over nothwithstanding requests that she stop doing so."

Not one comment I posted or reposted has ever been judged "libelous" and Christopher Grell and Terry Polevoy and Stephen Barrett are using people like Mark S Probert, Willa Nidiffer and Paul Lee ... all members of their "Rag-tag Posse of Snake-Oil Vigilantes" to attempt to change history and rewrite it with this bias.

Link to Rag-tag Posse:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:dwtWegChyv4J:www.ratbags.com/posse/whoarewe.htm+rag-tag+paul+lee&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

http://web.archive.org/web/20050205050827/http://www.ratbags.com/posse/whoarewe.htm

This is the archived website which includes Barrett and his team.

My name was put on this list against my wishes on their current page:

http://www.ratbags.com/posse/whoarewe.htm

Paul Lee is part of Barrett's team as you can see ... he is not an unbiased editor by any means.

Thank you.

Ilena Rosenthal

Ilena 00:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Ilena, please don't take offense when I suggest you keep your comments on topic. You realize that you're complaining about a satire website, right? --Ronz 03:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Ilena, stay on topic and use your Usenet account for your usual activities. This isn't the place to deal with these matters. Your extranaeous and off-topic material can and should be deleted by an admin.

As usual, your conspiracy fantasies show through loud and clear above. Bowditch's list of Ragtag Posse members is a spoof. Many of those people are simply listed because they share common interests, and none of them are members of any actual "group" or "team" since it doesn't exist in reality. IIRC, the list has been longer. (Peter Bowditch added all the people who were included in the malicious prosecution filed (and dropped) by Hulda Clark and her employed team.) Bowditch made the whole page as a spoof to tease people like you. Conspiracy theorists need content in their lives, so Peter was just being kind.....;-) Barrett has nothing to do with it, and it certainly isn't "his team", nor is he using anyone! Those are your conspiratorial fantasies. I can understand why Peter added you to the page, and I think it's terrible what your actions are doing to damage the case for women who have been injured by defective implants. They regret the day you ever heard of their plight.

I don't know where you ever got the idea that I might be or have claimed to be an "unbiased" person. Only people who are ignorant lack biases (and not always then!). You certainly aren't unbiased, so don't point fingers. What counts here is the actual edits. We try our best to keep our biases from showing, and when they do we should help each other in a congenial manner. That's what's great about Misplaced Pages. By requiring editors from opposing POV to work in a collaborative effort, we cover all the important aspects of a subject, and leave out the WP:TRIVIA.

As a directly involved party you should not edit this article, but you can certainly provide information here on the talk page. But please spare us for all the hate and junk. Take it to Usenet. -- Fyslee 09:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I really feel that Ilena is doing what you ask here, Fyslee. She is providing information on this talk page (which is relevant and entirely enilightening). What does it say about a person who creates a "satirical" website/organization whose only purpose is an entirely childish one. If I were you, I would petition to get your name taken off that list. It really damages your credibility to be associated with a site/org who actually takes the time to write peevish songs about people they don't like. I've heard libel mentioned a lot in connection with Barrett, but up until now, I've never actually seen libel in practice (and oddly it isn't against Barrett but it is from the other side). Honestly, if I were you Paul, I would try to distance myself from that site as much as possible. It looks really bad for you.

Now the point: let's work together here to make sure that we are posting facts about this lawsuit. Ilena, please (without finger-pointing) just post errors/omissions which you feel need to be rectified in this article. Please cite specific reliable sources (court records are the best) to back up your statements. Fyslee, Ronz and whoever else please do the same. All parties, please limit your information to just case relevant facts. And above all, let's try to be civil. Fyslee, you yourself are senstive to protecting Barrett's feelings on the article about him (bio of a living person, remember?). Please extend the same respect to Ilena in this article. (Everyone, save the name-calling and finger-pointing or whatever for your confessional blogs, usenet discussion groups, satirical sites, et cetera.) Civility, civility, civility. Please!

As for the Rat Bags organization, if that truly is a direct response to this lawsuit, then perhaps it is worthy of mentioning in this article. But let's deal with one hurdle at a time. So tell us everyone... what's wrong with this article? Levine2112 18:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Levine, you have made some very mature, sensible, and commendable suggestions. As far as Bowditch's site, the Rag Tag page was just a spoof unrelated to any lawsuit, although names were later added from one case - the Clark malicious prosecution case. He's a bit rough in his criticisms and uses a lot of sarcasm, but then he doesn't pretend to meet any other standard. Not my style or Barrett's. It's a mixed bag of extremely serious stuff, and a spoof once in awhile. His biggest peeve is the anti-vax movement, where he monitors the sufferings (and even deaths) of their own children, and that's enough to get any parent really riled up. -- Fyslee 21:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

"Rat Bags organization" isn't really (www.ratbags.com), although it isn't listed as a non-profit organistation in Mass, so perhaps it deserves it's own article? ;-) Shot info 12:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Errors and Omissions

• This is a sample of how we can format an error or omission from this article. Please use this format and try to keep all of your points organized. After each point, please cite a reliable source which backs up the statement and then sign your post with the usual ~~~~. Levine2112 18:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me if this in not where this belongs.

I am posting here Polevoy's refusal to our "mutual walk-away" and our offer to him. What is notable, is that Polevoy has maintained on his website that I had "no intention of settling" while anyone can clearly see this is false. Please note that one of their publicists, Nidiffer, posted false information as to the outcome on this case publicly.

Terry Polevoy (tpinfo@healthwatcher.net)

To:ilena2000@hotmail.com; mg@casp.net Cc:Stephen Barrett MD (sbinfo@quackwatch.com); Christopher Grell (grell140@yahoo.com); Dr. Terry Polevoy (drpolevoy@yahoo.com) Subject:Terry Polevoy's addendum to Ilena Rosenthal's e-mail of February 14, 2004

Dear Ms. Rosenthal:

Again, thank your for your message about settling. I am sorry you had trouble reaching me, but the virus problem has forced many people to change their e-mail addresses.

I am sincerely interested in settling, but any settlement would have to have two elements:

1. It would have to include a release of Dr. Barrett and Mr. Grell. 2. It would have to include a public acknowledgement that there is no police report that I stalked any women (as stated in the message you posted that triggered this whole nasty business).

Without both of these, we will proceed to trial.

cc: Mark Goldowitz, Chris Grell, Dr. Stephen Barrett

Terry Polevoy, MD

P.S. I was informed that if you did not hear back from me that you would post your letter on Usenet. It is really unfortunate that you would even consider doing this, because this would be the wrong thing to do.

!# Terry Polevoy, MD !# 938 King St. West !# Kitchener, Ontario, N2G 1G4 Canada !# 519-725-2263 -- 725-4953 fax

17:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)17:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)~~

From: Ilena Rosenthal (ilena2000@hotmail.com)

February 14, 2004
Dear Dr. Polevoy:
Today I received a personal email from Dr.  Barrett
with his view of the case.
Your attorney, Mr. Grell,  has also contacted me
personally by email expressing his opinions.
In turn, I am extending the same courtesy to you so
that I can be absolutely certain that you understand how we perceive the situation. Mr. Goldowitz has 
conveyed our letter of a mutual walkaway to Mr. Grell, but I have no way of  knowing what Mr. Grell relayed to you.
Further, although the Appeals Court vacated their
opinion as to you (only)  several months ago, and a new opinion and addendum were filed in our case with substantially different facts, I note that your website has not been updated to reflect the actual status of our case.
In fact, Ted Nidiffer using the alias of “Nana Weedkiller” recently posted  that I had lost this case and owed money, which we all know is absolutely not true.
For your benefit, I  am enclosing a copy of Mr. Goldowitz’s letter of 
January 26, 2004 which explains why we believe it is in your interest to  settle the case with me now.
Because both of your co-plaintiffs have lost their cases, may face malicious  prosecution charges, and have large money judgements against them with no  bargaining chips, their attempts to tie your
settlement to their losses now  has no benefit to you.
My attorneys are currently  preparing our petition to the California Supreme Court as discussed below, and even your lawyer has
indicated that they will likely grant our petition.
Although the deadline has already expired, for the
sake of full mutual  understanding and a mutually beneficial resolution to the dispute between  us, I have extended the deadline.
It is now 12:00 PM, Pacific Time, Monday, February 16, 2004 for you or your  counsel to notify us that you agree to the mutual release of all claims that  you and I have against each other.
Sincerely,
Ilena Rosenthal
Mark Goldowitz, Director
2903 Sacramento Street
www.casp.net

17:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)17:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)17:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)~ Posted by Ilena Rosenthal

There's still no cite about the details of settlement offer than your word, Ilena. Even if we were to accept Polevoy as a , the details of your offer are only in your E-mails and Usenet posts. Both easy enough to forge. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 02:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Ilena 16:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)I posted in its entirety the exact letters about this settlement offer. You have shown total bias towards the losing plaintiffs and have attempted to discredit and censor me. I have the complete email transactions of this.

When I began reading about this case, there were SEVERAL FACTUAL ERRORS and when I corrected them, you and Paul Lee attempted to get me thrown off of Misplaced Pages. If is blatantly clear that the plaintiffs are trying to rewrite history with your help. I forged nothing.

Paul Lee began following my posts around Costa Rica as if it is a crime to post from various internet shops.

Ilena Rosenthal www.breastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm