Misplaced Pages

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Use of citations

The page listed below is a discussion about the use of citations and why they are not relevant within wikipedia.

One of the contributants, who I agree with, states that Misplaced Pages can't always have references for everything because of the nature of a wiki website. This is because some of the information may be personal knowledge which can't have displayed references because there simply aren't any.

Category talk:Articles with unsourced statements

Please give your verdict on this opinion to user:dreamweaverjack's discussion page.

P.S. I am user:dreamweaverjack who is experiencing problems logging in due to errors on my computer.

12 December 2006 (UTC)

Invitation to Join Hadipedia.com Mediawiki based

Brother, I invite you to Join Hadipedia.com which is associate portal of www.mahdi.ms, i have setup this hadipedia.com mainly for Religious Encylopedia and i hope we can make it great portal for all of us esp., for our Shiite community (kids, youngs, and elders) who need to learn on Islamic " Correct " history :-) my email is islam@mahdi.ms awaiting your comments! regards/imran --www.mahdi.ms 22:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I have a question about POV policy and I want to ask it in Misplaced Pages talk:Neutral point of view . It's about this discussion:Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (Islam-related articles)#Secular discourse also I disagree with second mission of Islam wikiproject and write my idea in Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Islam:The Muslim Guild#Surprising sentence. Please check this question and correct its grammer before I put in Misplaced Pages talk:Neutral point of view .

"As you know each school of thought use special discourse for example Marxism use Class consciousness, Class struggle and many other word to describe social life. Neoconservatism use its special key words too. Also each religion use special discourse. For example when Shiites want to describe Ali's death, they said "Imam Ali has martyred" instead of saying "Ali has killed". Now my question is about opinions not facts. Some wikipedians believe we shouldn't use any especial word which represent a Point Of View, But I think we can't write opinions correctly unless we use special word which represent a Point Of View. I mean if we wrote an opinion of special school of thought or religion without its special discourse, we wouldn't write anything but meaningless sentence. In brief we can't describe viewpoint of each group as they say unless we use their special expressions."--Sa.vakilian 10:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

s:Letter from al-Dhahabi to Ibn Taymiya

The easiest way to resolve the template is the create and Author: page for the author. For an example see s:Author:Jane Austen the template on that page has instructions at s:Template talk:Author. Once that is done you can another template (s:Template talk:Header) to the actual page of the letter which will automatically link it the the Author: page. If you have problems with the templates out just give me the information that is asked for (it is OK to leave some parameters blank) and I will put them up. Thanks for your interest in Wikisource. --Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 03:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

my new page

I've seen you around on certain articles, and wanted to ask a tiny favor. I created a special page for my own use at User:XP/PendingDeletionsofNote. If you should happen to see any AfDs, MfDs, etc., that you think I should know about, please feel free to update this page to notify me--it works for me as an include to both my User and Talk page, so I will see it. I unfortunately don't always have time to look at the whole listings of those sections, or keep up. This will help a lot. Also, if you want, feel free to help yourself to using it as well on your own page. I added instructions for the curious in case they don't know fancy wikicode. Feel free to let anyone else know about my page and it's function--I don't mind more people knowing about, so that I can be aware. · XP · 06:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, ill keep it in mind, although i have put the 911 issue at rest for the time being. Let them delete everything if they want to, it will be a good lesson for wikipedia. --Striver 23:42, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Battle of Khaybar

Hi Striver,

If you are interested, I have the encyclopedia of Islam article on the Battle of Khaybar. This article has misused that source. --Aminz 23:37, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It does not surpise me, they have made some huge blunders, as i have stated in its talk page. It would be very interesting to see the article, can you share it? --Striver 23:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I can download it and send it to you in 4 hours. I have read the article before. This article completely censors the view of Watt for example. --Aminz 23:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Meanwhile, can you send me an email, so that I may have your email address. I can not attach files from here. Cheers, --Aminz 23:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Sent --Aminz 06:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

moved road to tyranny

Bro, considering that i created and have spent much time on User:Xiutwel/9-11: The Road to Tyranny, as is evident form its history, i wonder if it could be userfied under my userspace, and you having a copy of the latest version? Peace. --Striver 16:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I've moved it to you. — Xiutwel (talk) 23:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Moving the article

Salam. Chetori?

I want to move Roots of Religion to Theology of Shi'a.What's your idea?

Why don't you answer my question User talk:Striver#A problem.--Sa.vakilian 04:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Najis

Hi! I was wondering what you think of this artice: najis? I think it is too anti-Islamic and not enough accurate information from neutral and Muslim sources. But I am not an expert on the topic and I guess also neither were the people who wrote it! Khorshid 07:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I tried to improve it and make it NPOV. Please check it.--Sa.vakilian 06:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Don Paul

Striver, it looks like a concerted effort is being made to erase yet another article relating to the 9/11 debacle. Please have a look. Ombudsman 03:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Shia in Prophet's words

Umm Salameh narrates from the Prophet (PBUH&HP) that he said:" O' Ali you and your friends are in heaven. You and your Shia (followers) are in heaven.". This is narrated in Dur al-Manthur under commentary of verse 98:7. . Can you find it in Non-Shia sites. "Also Tabari narrated in his history and tafsir under "Youm Alandar" (26.214 ) that: When this command came down the Messenger of Allah 1 invited the descendents of Abdul-Muttalib (they were forty men) to a banquet which contained little amounts of food and milk. They ate and drank to their fill. The Messenger then spoke, saying: "O children of Abdul-Muttalib, by Allah, I do not know of any young man from among the Arabs who has ever brought to his people better than I what Im bring to you. I bring to you the goodness of the World and of the Hereafter, and Allah has commanded me to invite you to it. Who is among you willing to be my brother, my executor and my successor in you?" None of them responded but Ali who was the 2 youngest among them. He stood up and said: "Messenger of Allah, I will be you minister in this mission." The Prophet repeated his invition, but none responded except 'Ali who repeated his words. the Prophet put his hand on the neck of 'Ali and said: "This is my brother, my executor and my successor in you. Listen to him and obey him.".

Can you find them in the original text of Tafsir or History. Please answer my former questions too.--Sa.vakilian 13:08, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I found that Zereshk put something like this in Talk:Shi'a Islam. But why isn't it written in the article.--Sa.vakilian 15:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Shock and awe mediation

Hello, I've decided to mediate the Shock and awe case. Sorry it took so long. Anyways, there's some questions you can answer here. Thanks! Armedblowfish (talk|mail|contribs) 17:33, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Help request

The newly created article The Quran and science need your help and input. Can you please improve it as otherwise it will be deleted. Thank you in advance. --- ابراهيم 01:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Striver please spend sometime on the article. If you and Islami can work on it then it will improve significantly. Hence I hope looots of your contribution there (at least some). Pleaseeee... Jaza-ul-Allah Kahir.--- ابراهيم 17:13, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Where are you

Salam. Why don't you answer to me.--Sa.vakilian 15:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Name

There is no precedent to createa heading for "name". Yes, I know full Arabic names are long and can get in the way in the heading but I urge you to look at my solution on Ibn Hazm. If you have questions / comments about it feel free to ask. If you keep on adding name sections I'll try to drum up support to stop you--if I find the will to do it :) I think the section is needless when it can fit at the end of the intro not in bold. I'd like to know what you think about this... Hope you're doing well and hope you're enjoying your free reign without Zora and I bothering you :) --gren グレン 07:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Shock and awe. For the Mediation Committee, Essjay (Talk) This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

Jonathan Cook

Just thought you might want to keep an eye on the Jonathan Cook page. i don't have much experience with biographical articles, especially when the person concerned starts becoming a wikipedian! Boud 01:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

US$1 bill image

Your user page inlcudes Image:US $1 reverse.jpg and it may be replaced by Image:United States one dollar bill, reverse.jpg any time. The latter is an image from Commons, that's why. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Barnstar!

Thank-you. --BostonMA 12:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Moero Arthur

Sorry, man. I'm comletely swamped as far as translating stuff right now. I'm translating three different manga series' into english, constantly creating/updating seiyuu pages from the Japanese Wiki, and translating the Japanese Wiki character pages for the casts of Urusei Yatsura and Space Battleship Yamato. But here, try this site: www.jlpt-kanji.com. Just copy and paste each kanji from the Wiki page into the dictionary one at a time (or two or three at a time if they're right next to each other). If you can't get the hang of it, let me know and I'll see if I can get around to doing it after all.Seigi Choujin 02:34, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Triangles

• Image:El Salvador coa.png
• Image:Coat_of_arms_of_Nicaragua.svg
• Image:21April1967emblem.PNG
• http://www.nasascale.org/logos.htm
• http://www.terraterry.com/ssimages/cjmagblack.jpg
• http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000BTQH4I.01-A8NGTDCMCO53E._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
• http://www.xcucapital.com/images/CU_images/logo_ameritrade.jpg

Image:911TM.JPG listed for deletion

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License tagging for Image:Liberty-plaque.jpg

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Shi'a project's to do list

You proposed adding the people in List of marjas and List of ayatollahs to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Muslim scholars , but I disagree with you. Do you mean that we should add too many people which most of them haven't done great work. Then who can recognize some great scholars like Tabatabaee among others. I'm sure Shi'a has enough scholars to write there instead of G.A. Sistani, A.Khamenei and Khatami.--Sa.vakilian 10:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

That is why there is a "Importance" section were they can be graded from "low" to "top". Peace. --Striver 10:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Where is the "Importance" section. Whould you please answer all of my comments in your talk page , if you have enough time now.--Sa.vakilian 10:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

QuoteHadith template up for deletion

I've put the QuoteHadith template up for deletion at WP:TFD. This was a very bad idea. If we give one class of religious texts special treatment (lines, colors) then other religions are going to want special treatment too, at which point the non-religious editors are going to start objecting to special treatment of religious quotes. A quote is a quote. Let's leave it at that. Zora 02:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Muslim scholars

Salam, I have noticed Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Muslim scholars. Execellent Job!! I wanted to do this since the beginning. Jidan 00:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam, its me again. I have noticed you inserted a menu to some scholars like Avicenna or Al-Kindi which I think is a nice idee. What I don't think is a nice idea is inserting the nationality. I think its better to name it something like "Islamic scholar" instead of "Arab" or "Persian" scholar, since the wikiproject you started is about Muslim scholars, and also because some scholars nationality was unknown (its was not important at that time to mention). This will also avoid edit wars in the future. Cheers. Jidan 01:55, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Rating

Salam a'likom, the article Talk:Muhammad Metwally Al Shaarawy says "it has been rated - on the quality scale". So what's the rating of it? It didn't say any grade. Thanx.

--TheEgyptian 05:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Wa alaikom salam. I fixed it, Stub-Class. --Striver 05:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks :) E'id Mubarak. --TheEgyptian 06:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Eid Mubarak

All the best -- Samir धर्म 05:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

• Eid Mubbarak! --Khalid 13:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

For you too.--Sa.vakilian 18:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Request for collaboration in cleaning up the genealogy of Muhammad and Ṣaḥābah on Misplaced Pages

(See User talk:JohnAlbertRigali#Sahaba for Striver's replies.)

I'm probably biting off more than I can chew, but I want to clean up any genealogy content regarding the Prophet and the Ṣaḥābah. You seem to the "point man" for articles that happen to contain such content, so I'd like to collaborate with you if such collaboration is worthwhile. I don't visit Misplaced Pages regularly anymore, so I can't adhere to a timetable, but I can dedicate myself to this project nonetheless. What say you? -John Rigali 02:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I've been afraid to join Misplaced Pages projects because I get the impression that other members of the projects expect a certain amount and frequency of participation. Can I join Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Salaf without such expectations? -John Rigali 20:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

There is no formal expectations, the "membership" serves as nothing more than a notification of interest and a "contant me if need be". So you are welcomed to join and do nothing more, ever. Of course, i would be happy if you would do more than that.--Striver 20:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Muslim_scholars/Assessment

hello Striver! http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Muslim_scholars/Assessment this page concerned me, will the pages be deleted according to the importances assessed on this page? thanks in advance for your answer. --Suleyman Habeeb 11:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Deleting, well excluding from wikipedia. That's what I meant. :) What else can deleting mean? --Suleyman Habeeb 11:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC) BTW: that was a QUICK answer!

RFC

Hi Striver,

I need Muslims to contribute to an RFC on the Islam template. See here. thanks. Cuñado - Talk 00:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Moshaf of Hazrat Fatima

Salam. Eide Fetr mobarak.

I put a comment for you in talk:Shi'a view of the Qur'an for you.

Whould you please my former comments in this talk page.--Sa.vakilian 18:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Non-Islamic Islam studies literature

The title of this category makes little or no sense. I understand that you're using it for books about Islam written by non-Muslims, but you should consider revising the name of the category. BhaiSaab 22:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions?--Striver 22:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't think of one right now - maybe it should be merged. The entire structure of the books-related categories is confusing. For example, I don't think "Islamic studies books" or "Islamic literature" categories necessitate that the authors be Muslim just because "Islamic" is in the name. BhaiSaab 22:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that it is probable that a non-Muslim writes about the virtues and rulings of Salah and Hajj? At the best, they will state some general facts about it, but never indulge in details, and centainly not in a "Islamic" maner.--Striver 22:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Well then we have a disagreement about what "Islamic" means. As an adjective form I think it means simply "of Islam", not necessarily "in an Islamic manner." BhaiSaab 22:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

In any case, we need to have a category for "in an Islamic manner." and one for "of Islam". if you find more appropriate terms, please inform me of them.--Striver 22:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm considering revising the structure of Category:Muslim Islamic scholars, Category:Shi'a Muslim scholars, Category:Shi'a Muslim Islamic scholars, Category:Shi'a clerics, Category:Sunni_Muslim_scholars, Category:Sunni Muslim Islamic scholars, and Category:Sunni_Imams. I think we can merge/delete some of them and simplify their names. BhaiSaab 22:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Why do you view it necesary to merge/delete some of them? --Striver 22:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Well first of all, some of them should be renamed, i.e. Sunni Muslim Islamic scholars to Sunni Islamic scholars, because "Sunni" and "Muslim" are repetitive and the same goes for the Shi'a categories. Second, I'm pretty sure all Shi'a Islamic scholars are going to be of the Shi'a clergy - the same goes for Sunni Imams and Sunni Islamic scholars. BhaiSaab 22:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

As for the first point: I agree, ill fix it tomorrow. Thanks for notifying me. As for the second point: There are plenty of Scholars that do not attain such high status as earning the title Sunni Imam or not being Shi'a clergy. For example, Seyyed Hossein Nasr.--Striver 22:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Islami

I just lost my temper on user:Islami. Bad move. What is your opinion of this? --Striver 09:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think he's very stubborn and obviously biased to a Wahhabist POV. I pulled that RFC because he was reverting without putting up a logical argument. I was completely willing to acknowledge that I might be wrong but he wouldn't respond on the talk page.

Regarding the Muhammad al-Bukhari page, the part Islami deleted was a fairly poorly written piece. It does not cite any sources and makes generalizations about Shi'a. This is a wider problem on many Islam-related articles. You should always avoid saying "Shi'a believe..." or "Some people say..." without citing a source. Sometimes it's just obvious, but with regard to suggesting that there is an official Shi'a attitutde about him, that implies that there is a central leadership that determines what Shi'a doctrine is, and there is no such thing. I would suggest cleaning up that section, removing the sub-section headings of "Sunni view" and "Shi'a view", and try to find a reference to someone with credentials who reviewed Bukhari's work. Cuñado - Talk 23:11, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Of course, that part could be infinitly better, but that is not my problem, my problem is that Islami is _removing_ it. That content is still informative, and does much more good than harm. If Islami was realy conserned with quality, he would not settle with removing Shi'a text, giving some random but half-valid explanation. I would much rather having him a quality-nazi (no offense) than a "i am removing all poor quality content AS LONG as it is Shi'a" guy. Please tell him to improve rather than destroy information. --Striver 08:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the recent history of Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyya. --Striver 08:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

And now he is starting removing links to other articles, claiming it is POV to do so... --Striver 09:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

And here, he is just blatantly removing the Shi'a pov. When does it become vandalism? --Striver 10:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

If you're ever reverting with Islami and you run out of reverts. Just let me know. Cuñado - Talk 00:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of our friend, could you please revert Template:Islam. I had to fight vandalism and Islami. He insists on linking Salafism. Conveniently, that's the doctrine he believes in personally. Cuñado - Talk 07:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Changing category name

Hi, note that by changing Category:Islamic honorifics to Category:Islamic Honorifics you do not change the title of the category. Instead, the link became red (inactive, incorrect). The only way to change the name of a category is by filing a request for it to be deleted and then recreating it - a very difficult procedure, which does not seem to be needed in this case. Therefore, I reverted your edit to the categories on Peace be upon him (Islam). Hope it's clear. --Daniel575 | (talk) 00:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I dont get that, why is that i reason for not having the category at all? --Striver 08:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Award

		The Template Barnstar
		For Striver!!! For your tireless contributions in cleaning and updating Islam related articles and introducing relavant templates for articles. :) --TruthSpreader 12:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

WHayaaaayyy!!! I was thinking when somebody would notice :D Thank you, i would like to thank my... :D

Now, if somebody could un-lock my userpage... --Striver 10:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. --TruthSpreader 12:50, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

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Islamic Jurisprudence

Salaam mate! Blood money (term) is not part of Islamic Jurisprudence, rather it is part of Islamic law or Sharia. TruthSpreader 11:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam bro :) Yes, that is true. But Fiqh is a sub-class (expansion) of Sharia, so Salah, Sawm and other Sharia related issues goes under the Fiqh issues :) You can't have fiqh withouth Sharia, can you? --Striver 11:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Your endless wikiprojects.

Striver, please stop creating all this wikiprojects, It's not just because it's untidy, but because you're spreading out the resources of editors who edit Islamic articles so far it's actually a hindrance to editing. Could you not please merge at least Prophets of Islam, Salaf, Hadith, and Muslims Scholars, even if you want to keep the Sunni and Shia guilds? It's just too much for people to check, with the result that Islamic articles do not improve at the rate they should. Dev920 (check out this proposal) 15:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Keep in check? Nobody is "keeping them in check", you seem to imply that they are semi-vandalism projects. They are not. And they are not in the way of anybody, people who do not like them can just ignore them. As for "to many", take a look at the number of Christian wikiprojects:

• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Christianity
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Bible
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jesus
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Christian liturgical year
• Misplaced Pages:Catholic Encyclopedia topics
• Misplaced Pages:Easton's Dictionary topics
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Saints
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Catholicism
• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Anglicanism

If you ask me, the Islamic wikiprojects were long overdue when i started creating them. Dont like them? Dont look at them. The reason they were not created earlier is that there are more christian editors with internet access. What i am doing is countering systematic bias. The Misplaced Pages:Mini Talkpage Template was a great idea, thanks for the tip. --Striver 15:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

That comment did'nt sound so nice... could you please pretend that i wrote that, but in a more civil maner? --Striver 15:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and I think that's an absurd number of Wikiprojects as well, though the Encyclopedia topics don't count because they're not part of Wikiproject Christianity, they're part of the cross encyclopedia referencing group.

I don't know why you have this need to copy everything Christians do on WIkipedia. What is the point in founding a Wikiproject that only has you and two other people? What will you accomplish that wouldn't have a wider audience if you posted it to the Muslim Guild? You said that the Islamic Wikiprojects were overdue, but who has joined them? Two of the projects you mentioned above are now inactive, and the others all have least over 30 participants, and Wikiproject Catholicism has 86! None of your Wikiprojects has over 5 members!

The Wikiprojects you are founding are run almost entirely by you, and all they serve to do is to draw resources away from where they are needed, like Wikiproject Islam, or even the Muslim Guild. The point of a Wikiproject is not to counter systemic bias, it is to plug a need, and none of the Wikiprojects you have founded could not be covered by Wikiproject Islam. You said that if I don't like them, don't look at them. I don't. And more to to the point, neither does anyone else. So why do it? Please, merge them and put your valuable contributions into improving Islamic articles. You must have a library of Islamic books, why not reference Islam? It'll never reach FA without it. Dev920 (check out this proposal) 21:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Bro, the reason i do the wikiproject is not to copycat the cristians or anything else, it is to bring some order. Before i started, there was just a bunch of articles about Muslim schoalars with varying degree of quality that nobody had any grips on. No we have a great tool for overviewing them. That is my motivation for doing it, and that is all motivation that should be needed. --Striver 21:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

But you're basically using it for your own convenience. Why not keep creating all these tables to create order, which are probably useful to you, but transfer them into your userspace? Then you can identify what articles you think need improving immediately and put them up at Wikiproject Islam. That way, Wikipedian efforts to improve Misplaced Pages are not spread out too thinly.

Well, i do hope that people will start to join the projects... really. But i could try to advetise them better on the on Muslim guild, like saying, "hey, im trying to improve this article this week, why don't you come and help" or something... Most wikiprojects don't have one member, since people don't bother. But considering that i put 6+ houres per day here, it worth the bother for me. --Striver 22:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, go with what you have at the moment, but maybe next time an idea for a Wikiproject pops into your head, create a taskforce on the Muslim Guild instead, yeah? Dev920 (check out this proposal) 22:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou for your support on my proposal. May I ask you something? What's a good definitive but easily readable book to read on Shi'a Islam? Dev920 (check out this proposal) 21:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

My pleasure to support a great idea :) Hmmm... it depends, what angle are you going to read on? Is like "why is Shi'a islam bettar than Sunni Islam" or "Why does Shi'a islam suck" or "Why should i be a Shi'a Muslim" or "Why should i bother to be a Shi'a if i am already a Muslim" or... you get my point, what issue do you hope to get an answer for? *smile* --Striver 21:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Just a general overview of Shi'a Islam beliefs and why they believe that. If you then want to recommend some books about how much better Shi'a Islam is than Sunni, I'm game. Just don't expect me to read them immediately. ;) Dev920 (check out this proposal) 21:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Do'h! Let see... Zereshk talk fondly about Nasr, maybe one of his books? Personaly, im much more for the details of why my denomination rocks and everybody else are loosers (lol, you know, like everybody else do), and i found Tijani to be good at that, and i loved his first book about why he became Shi'a... but that is only of interest if you are a religious junky... I havn't read anything from Nasr, but he seems respecatble enough to give a good impresion on people i would either bore to death or infuriate to the point of wanting to kill me... --Striver 22:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

My library does not stock the Nasr book, but I will be sure to nag them to acquire it, if it's that definitive. Thankyou.Dev920 (check out this proposal) 22:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Dev here. The effect of all these projects is a decentralization of our effort. Also, please check your email. Salam. BhaiSaab 23:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Qur'anic literalism

Lookit, baby, I specifically took the thing out of the obscurity of prod and into the light of AfD, so that wonderful people like yourself could explain to us why the article is ok, and imprve it, as I ask in the nom, so plz don't yell at me, all right? - crz crztalk 01:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I have been blocked from editing

I have been blocked from editing, because I insulted a Jew. He had erased messages from my talk page. I asked him why he did this, he didn't answer. So I insulted him. Administrators took that seriously. They blocked me indefinitely from editing. Do you happen to know anyone able of unblocking me? Jaber90

Well, considering this, i am not surprised. Have the one you offended to accept your apology. Otherwise, i don't think that account is going to be usable anymore. --Striver 17:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Shiite-1.jpg

Salam

A robot is going to remove this picture from Shi'a Islam. Szvest has told to me we can save it if we edit it by photoshop. Unfortunately I can't do it. Can you help me with it.--Sa.vakilian 12:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned in the talk page this picture have some mistakes about uzbakistan and it doesn't show Yemen. Can you edit this parts.--Sa.vakilian 12:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Bro, im sorry, i tried but i don't think i can help with this.--Striver 19:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Muhammad picture dispute

Will you like to join the on going mediation on Muhammad picture dispute. The result may apply on all the Muhammad pictures in the Muhammad article. If so then Please visit. I will appreciate your participation because I think no shia Muslim is there so far. At some point they might say that all Shia groups allow portraits of Muhammad and there you could provide very valuable input. Thanking you in anticipation. -- ابراهيم 19:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I just did, thanks for the message. --Striver 19:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I hope that given your knowledge, you will able to make a big difference there In-sha-Allah. --- ابراهيم 19:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Inshallah.--Striver 19:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

A Question

Dear brother, Can I ask one question? I hope your reply will end my confusion about that. I do not understand that why you have voted Keep in Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Third_holiest_site_in_Islam. --- ابراهيم 19:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The first time i saw the article, i got quite surprised at the concept, and thought that it was interesting. The article seemed to try to convey a point that might have (or might not) have merit: that there is not a consensus on the issue. I did not read the article all that thoroughly, but thought that i would get around to it. The afd triggered an "allergic reaction" in me: seeing people trying to stop some editor who had put a lot of work in his article. So at that moment i rather had the author have the time to fix the article that had been barely created. I still have not read through the entire article, and it is possible that i might change my mind when the article is done. Don't view my vote keep as an endorsement of the articles content, its more about me being a inclusionist and rather giving people the chance of writing something, and then deleting it if it was non-sens. Hope it helps--Striver 19:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Salafism

Hi Striver, could you review Salafism and tell me what you think. I made this edit after reading up on the movement, and I improved the article by making it clearer and adding references. Islami and Truthpedia are now both reverting me, but I don't think they even looked at my edits. Islami really pissed me off by claiming in his edit summary that it was full of spelling and grammar errors, but he ignored my request on the talk page to actually give an example of one. Since you're not a Salafi like they are, I think you can give me a fairly unbiased judgment. And of course please revert if you agree, as I'm running out. Cuñado - Talk 01:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to the club... If they object to you removing info, i might have agreed with them, but they want to remove your well-referenced info providing very vague and sweeping arguments, and that is not something i can support. We add info, not remove it.--Striver 01:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if this will ever end, but could you revert Salafism. Someone has been vandalizing the page with terrorism comments in the middle of Truthpedia reverting. I ran out of reverts. Cuñado - Talk 00:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Lol! My pleasure to revert. --Striver 00:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Muhammad in bible

Salaam, we were discussing about creating an article on Muhammad in Bible. I gave a few references, if those can help. Kindly see Talk:Muhammad#Muhammad_and_Bible_Prophesy. Cheers! TruthSpreader 06:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there was an Islam and the Bible that got renamed in bad faith to Bible und Muhammed and was deleted per Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bible und Muhammed. Maybe we can take it to drv, have it undeleted and start improving it? --Striver 12:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Shakir translation

hello,

"Im sorry, i forgot about this. The SHAKIR version goes "vali", implying the Shi'a conotation linked to the hadith of Ghadire Khumm and he also states "pay the poor-rate while they bow", something that only Ali did. The other versions make that interpretation impossible. Further, only a Shi'a would bother to enable a Shi'a interpretation. Either SHAKIR was Shi'a or he plagirized some SHi'as work"

This is completely false, please read the verse yourself in arabic "innama valiukumullahu" The yusufali and pictahl translations appear to be intentionally incorrect. Furthermore if you speak to sunni scholars, they'll agree that the vali refers to ali, but would argue about the definition of "vali".

Peace

You said it yourself. --Striver 22:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

continued

Sorry, i can't seem to continue in the same thread.

I don't understand what you're saying. Shakir was shia, but his translation is not biased.

i agree, no disagreement from my side. --Striver 23:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Please correct this

Hi, I am sure that this happened by oversight, despite the hour-long gap -- can you please act to correct it yourself? I could do it, but it would be better this way. Regards, ImpuMozhi 14:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the notice. --Striver 14:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Possible Sockpuppetry

Striver, you may find this of interest:Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Islami.Proabivouac 11:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Category for articles created

Considering my contributions, i wonder if it is ok to create a category for adding the talk pages of articles i have created, much in the same way as Category:Medieval warfare task force articles, possibly naming it "Category:Articles created by User:Striver"? --Striver 17:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Greetings. That's quite an impressive contributions list! Personally, I wouldn't do it -- it invites one to feel ownership, but you're welcome to get other opinions. (I've written about 450 articles, but there's no way I would try to put their talk pages in a category indicating I created the article... just doesn't feel right somehow.) Hope this helps, and keep up the good work; we need people interested in and knowledgeable about Islam. Peace, Antandrus (talk) 19:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment, but lets also remember that admins are not more "special" than us, they just have a few privileges.--Striver 19:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Misplaced Pages is about content, not contributors of content. As Antandrus pointed out, the category that you want to create would focus on you instead of content. Althought I'm not aware of any policy restricting the creation and use of such categories, I think that the Misplaced Pages administration would remove it if it discovers it. (FYI to Striver: I added this page to my watchlist, so you don't have to inconvenience yourself by adding comments on my talk page as well.) -John Rigali 19:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Thing is, i came up with the idea due to conviniace. Its actualy a strain to keep updating that contribution list, and i sometimes forget to add articles there, so it would be more convineant for me to just add a tag... but i understand the non-conventional side of my idea, and therefore asked for some comments before doing it.--Striver 19:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't personally have a problem with it, but it sounds like a violation of policy. There ought to be a way for you to track them with a log like the one which records your vast number of page moves.Proabivouac 00:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I would be happy with any solution that takes off me the (voluntary) burden of keeping track of everything i do... The only policy is what we make of it, if you guys that i have contacted unanimosly have nothing against me doing it, it would be a good start, i could then ask for a bit larger audience and then start doing it... i mean, sure, i had only created 20 articles, i would understand if you thought it was is to much to ask for, but considering the amount of articles, i need to categorize them and sub-categorize them, and that is a pain. I could do it automaticly with a invisible template that sets the talk page in the appropriate category... pleeeaaaseee? *cute face*--Striver 02:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

And by the way, i guarantee that i will not go insane and start having delusions of owning articles... i mean... really... --Striver 02:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists

Salam alaykum. Please look at Talk:Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists. I need your support because I want to change the article completely.--Sa.vakilian 18:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

user page

I thought you might want to know. Your user page is all screwed up. Everything after the user boxes is shifted to the right really far. I'm on firefox with windows XP. Cuñado - Talk 17:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, i know, some admin locket it, and i can fix it since then... sux... --Striver 20:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Striver

You asked help for the German contribution to Afghanistan. There are already articles about the Canadian and British involvement in Afghanistan. See for links to these for example at the International Security Assistent Force. At my own pc I collected some articles from German media about this situation. I will look if I can add something at the article, or send to you. Regards Rob van Doorn 00:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Striver: this is the original publication at the German magazine Bild. It is in German. I am Dutch, and I can read German and English as my own language. hope you can do something with this article: http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/aktuell/2006/10/25/afghanistan-soldaten-totenkopf/afghanistan-totenkopf-soldaten.html

I did not know that you are writing an article about this topic. When I have some time to do, I make edits at for example ISAF, Taliban Insurgery, Provincial Reconstruction Team and so on. I can write something about this at one of this articles, but... maybe it will be vandalized, because not everybody want to see this be written. We will see. The truth can be sometimes too hard for people Rob van Doorn 01:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

• I will take a look at it, and try to give some more information at the article you started about it.

• • And I made a link to your article at my own computer, worddocument, about the German contribution to ISAF and Afghanistan.

Interesting Article

Striver, have a look at this . It is written by another scholar of Islam who respects(and even loves) Muhammad so much (like Watt) but explains why these Islamic scholars don't convert to Islam. --Aminz 10:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

wow, cool! --Striver 11:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

New article you may want to edit

Hello Striver, I've started a new article about Saudi Arabia's first feature film: Keif al-hal?. I invite you to contribute to it if such an article might interest you. Thanks. :-) (→Netscott) 02:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Adab (behavior)

Please don't ever make a move like that without some real discussion... and... well, possibly citing the use of the term. I know you like your English versions of the Arabic but no one calls it "Islamic etiquettical jurisprudence" All searches lead to Misplaced Pages mirrors. Please don't do that... you have been warned many many times and it is disruptive. Thank you. gren グレン 08:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Bro, don't you see that (moved to Talk:Adab (behavior))

Shia and Sunni wikiprojects

What possible reason do you have for maintaining those wikiprojects? How do they improve Misplaced Pages? Why won't you merge them to Wikiproject Islam? Dev920 (Please vote here) 19:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I find them to be a good place to collect special-interest articles, articles that would be "lost in the haze" of all the other articles. It is not a coincidence that Sa.vakilian choose that project to spend his time on. Collecting efforts is good. But specialization does also have its benefits. I could consider TALKING (read: talking and nothing more for the moment) about turning those projects into task forces of WikiProject Islam. Lets start with the Sunni WikiProject. If it turn out, then we can turn both into task forces. --Striver 19:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean your million variations on "Sunni view of" and "Shia view of" articles? What do they add to Misplaced Pages?

Man, this kind of semi-accusations is not benficial to either of us. Please see category:Muslim views and Category:Christian viewpoints.--Striver 20:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Just as unhelpful as your POV forks, in fact. Dev920 (Please vote here) 22:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You need to refresh your knowledge on what a WP:POV fork is.--Striver 22:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll AGF and say you're creating unnecessary content forks instead. Let me explain: Most of the articles you produce these forks for don't need these spinoffs, you could add them to the actual article itself. that's what I object to. Dev920 (Please vote here) 22:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

In many cases, we do just that. But in some cases, WP:NPOV demands that we do not give undue weight to a minority view, but rather make spin outs with edit summaries in the main article. --Striver 23:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, talk. What is the point of Wikiprojects that only two people use with any regularity? How much more useful would it be for your cause to create a Open task board of some kind labelled "Sunni" and "Shia" and put them on Wikiproject islam? Then you would still be able to haul articles out of the ether, but more people would be able to see them. Dev920 (Please vote here) 20:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, two people gathering to coordinate articles is much better than no people doing so. And that is way i creat projects instead of huge userspace notes. If i do them like projects, there is a bigger chance of people joining them. "Open task board of some kind labelled "Sunni" and "Shia" and put them on Wikiproject islam"? Explain that to me, i do not understand your proposal.--Striver 20:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want to bring together specific Sunni and Shia articles, and this is what you're creating all these wikiprojects for, create an open task board like here and put it on WikiProject Islam. Discuss any issues you have on the Islam talkpage - as you don't seem to really discuss stuff anyway, it wouldn't take up much extra space. This way, you have your special interest articles ina single place, but everyone else is happy because it's on the main WikiProject. Dev920 (Please vote here) 20:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, i see. That system seems to lack something i value higly: The ability to give the articles a quality and priority tag, and also, what you refered to me seems to be of a temporary nature, while i value a more permanent form. For example, see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Muslim scholars/Assessment. --Striver 20:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Good grief, why would you put that much effort into something no-one else will see?

But, your call. If that's all you want a Wikiproject for, why not move all those to subpages of Wikiproject Islam and link to them from the main page? Centralisation, as I have mentioned before, will get you a much greater audience than simply creating another Wikiproject. Dev920 (Please vote here) 20:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Im not doing that for "somebody looking at it", im doing it since it is a helpfull tool for me. That is the bottom point, i do this as a tool for me. If anyone also finds it helpfull, then great, but that is not why i do this.Centralization? Sure, centralization and standardization are great. But not at the cost of quality. I am not going to delete my tools in order to put them up on some temporary list. And i am sure you understand why. Now, you are the one who are pressing for merging it all to one huge project. Sure, why not, ill agree to it as soon as i get presented with a proposal that does not compromise with the quality of the tools. --Striver 21:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Allow me to demonstrate. Revert me later if you like. Dev920 (Please vote here) 21:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, try it out with the Sunni WikiProject. If i like it, will keep it, otherwise ill revert or propose some alternative. --Striver 21:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why, but my reply to you has been lost. Allow me to repeat:

I have moved Muslim Scholars to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Islam/Assessment/Muslim Scholars and linked to it on the main page. This way, you can keep and maintain your assessment lists, but they are accessible to other editors as well. Ok? Dev920 (Please vote here) 22:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, it could work. Ill need to reform the template, and the sub-page needs to be made more prominent, but we will see how it goes. Lets give it a shot, if it ends well, i have no objections, but if i am not content with the end result, i will revert it back how things were before our experiment.--Striver 22:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

More prominent? I thought you said you made them only for yourself? ;) But OK then, to sum up, can we move all the Assessment lists from all the other wikiprojects (except Shia, because we need to talk to Sivilian about that one) to the same place and then redirect them to Wikiproject Islam? Dev920 (Please vote here) 22:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Lets take it one step at a time. Give this a few days, if everything goes smoothly, then we can do it. --Striver 22:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

A few days to do what? Dev920 (Please vote here) 22:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

To let things calm down, to let my nerves settle down and stop feeling being pushed. --Striver 23:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

As you choose. I will resume my hectoring in two days time. ;D Dev920 (Please vote here) 23:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good :) --Striver 23:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree with you if you want to merge Shi'a wikiproject with Islam wikiproject. But please remove something like this which can bother some other Muslims and result in editorial war.

• The Donia(یا دنیا)! What are you doing with Ali? Why we should put similiar importance for Ali and Muawiyah_I articles. What is the relation between Them. - User:Sa.vakilian

  I dont mean that Muawiyah is important in Shi'a Islam, only that he is important in encyclopedia about Shi'a Islam.--Striver 12:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Please check your email. Salam. BhaiSaab 17:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Part 2

I'm noting that it has now been four days and the other wikiprojects have not been taskforced. Would you like me to move them for you and you can edit them later? Dev920 (Please peer review here.) 15:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive. This week Islam was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help.

Dev920 13:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

User:NotAWeasel‎

I saw your reporting of that user. You know, the links you posted weren't even the worst of it. I was trying to be polite on his talk page, then as I was checking his diffs, i realised it was a lot worse than I though when i started. --Merbabu 11:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Response

"i just saw on tv that Israel had killed some large bunch of people" - and you believe everything you see on TV, without any research into the actual context, no doubt.

Look. I don't trust you for a minute. You created a POV fork when there was already obviously another article on the same thing. I don't believe for a moment that you didn't know it existed. I'm not assuming good faith again until you show some and stop trying to blatantly POV push. The proper thing for you to do would be to admit it was a fork, support its deletion, and THEN if you want to see the items added to the other article, argue for their inclusion on the talk page. Some of the comments I might support. Some of the crap you wrote is blatant POV and has no place on Misplaced Pages at all.

By trying to push this "merge" thing, what you are doing is trying to shoehorn obviously POV content into an article that others are working very hard to keep to NPOV standards. I've watched the commentary by your friends, who are all about making the article as blatantly anti-Israel as possible. That is bad faith, I say you are working in bad faith, and I'm going to say so until you demonstrate otherwise, because your conduct till now is well beyond the bounds of AGF. RunedChozo 16:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

sight... whatever, lest pretend i am Saddam or OSB for all i care...--Striver 17:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

No, that's not what I meant, and I know you know it. Just stop behaving in bad faith, stop POV pushing, and I'll have no problem with you. Though I might advise you change your name, a name that translates to Jihadi probably isn't a good thing to be carrying around. RunedChozo 17:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Branches of Religion to Practices of the Religion

Why did you move the article to "Practices of the Religion"? Furu-u-Din means Branches of Religion. BhaiSaab 17:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Was it wrong? You are free to move it back. Sa.vakilian insisted on moving Usul al-din from Roots of religion to Shi'a Theology, against my wishes. I did not want to start a fight, so i did some short research concluded that Principle of religions was more appropriate. I don't remeber how i came to that conclusion. After that, it was logical to change Furu al-Din to Practices of the Religion, you know, Principle - Practice. If you do not agree and want to move them back to Root-Branches, then i have nothing against it, just talk to Sa.vakilian first. My only reservation would be to make sure there is some kind of standard between those two, like Principle - Practice or Usul-Furu or Root-Branches, and not something mixed like Principle-Branches. Btw, i did not receive any e-mail. --Striver 17:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Avicenna - Mu'tazili

Regarding this edit, can you confirm that Avicenna was a Mu'tazilite? I can't find any mention in the article as such. --Bluerain 08:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Beit Hanoun

i've proposed a rename to "idf shelling..." (this will be very difficult for the pro-israeli's to claim pov on) which might actually finish before any possible deletion reviews. just thought u should know. the two processes won't interfere w/ each other, just i assume 're-name' is easier. good luck. ben  ⇒ bsnowball  11:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Rashidun family trees

I've touched up the 3 remaining Rashidun family tree articles, but you should probably take a look at them to see if they meet with your satisfaction. Umar's family tree is a redlink, to show the blatant hole in Misplaced Pages's coverage. We should fill that hole as soon as possible...

Did you save a copy of Umar's family tree? If so, please copy it to a subpage (either under your username or mine), so that we can work on it. From what I can tell from the deletion review discussion, all it needed was a lead paragraph and a see also section (and perhaps the islam template).

I look forward to your reply.  The Transhumanist   10:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

With regards to this edit,

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thanks, and happy editing.

Andjam 12:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

		The Surreal Barnstar
		Is awarded to Striver for championing the article Family tree of Umar against the many irrational (systematic) biases that were opposed to it, including resurrecting it from deletion, and then from the jaws of deletion itself. The systematic bias of Misplaced Pages seems to be getting stronger, since legitimate articles like this are being deleted on a regular basis. May Striver and others like him turn the tide.  The Transhumanist   23:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding reversions made on December 2 2006 to Talk:Jalal_ad-Din_Muhammad_Rumi

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. The duration of the block is 24 hours.

I fear that merely declaring your edit 3RR immune as rvv won't work.

William M. Connolley 20:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)