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I uploaded that pic to the sandbox....didn't think I had to go through any official stuff there...K. Lastochka 22:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, K. Lastochka, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

And i surely hope that you'll get my joke about Turkmenbashi one day :) --Amir E. Aharoni 23:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Shalom Amir, I was pretty sure it was a joke but just wanted to make sure. :) I have Turkmen friend who has several times had his life nearly wrecked by that maniac, so it's a slightly sensitive topic for me. K. Lastochka 22:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

If your friend can get on Misplaced Pages and write some stuff about Turkmenistan, it would be great. I'm very curious about this country and its history and language, and not just because of the crazy dictatorship, but information is very hard to find. --Amir E. Aharoni 06:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately he doesn't really have the time. :( K. Lastochka 15:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC) One thing he did tell me about Turkmenistan is that before the fall of the USSR, Ashgabat was the third-most cosmopolitan city in the whole USSR, a big, vibrant city with people of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, and as much of a cultural center as is possible in Central Asia. :) First was Moscow, he said, then Baku, then Ashgabat. It's really sad what has happened to that poor little country. K. Lastochka 16:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Neat, I'll drop in occasionally! :) K. Lastochka 02:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

1956

And a hearty jó napot to you too... I am 100% in agreement that 56 should be up as feature on 10/23 (or any time during late October), and the AID is the critical path for this. Thanks for putting out the word, but it seems we are stuck at 21 for right now. Maybe contacting each of the Hungarians that hang out on the Hungarian pages? Ive done a few with mixed success... And please dont feel the need to explain or apologise for ethnicity (sorry if Im not catching a joke, but this IS email really) You are welcome on this side of the barricade as russian, czech, magyar, or whatever.Istvan 19:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I WAS basically joking about the awkwardness my Russian username--I've only recently found out that I'm (very little) part Magyar and all my email/internet/whatever else stuff is all Russian. I'm just multicultural, I guess. :) Anyway, there is a whole list of "Wikipedians in Hungary" that I stumbled across, maybe we can bother some of them. Only if they write back in Hungarian, they're officially YOURS to deal with....csak egy kicsit beszelék magyarul. :) K. Lastochka 21:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for notifying me about that voting. (This English wikipedia is so huge and complicated that I just can't keep my eye on all the pages where a vote would be needed :)) We recently started to use our noticeboard at Misplaced Pages:Hungarian Wikipedians' notice board, if you have any Hungary-related thing to say, you can post it there. I already notified them about the voting. BTW it's a big shame but the Hungarian Misplaced Pages's article about the revolution is hardly more than a stub at this moment, it is more likely that we'll expand the HuWiki article from that of EnWiki than vice versa... we just realized yesterday that we'll have to work on it a lot in the next few weeks :) – Alensha   13:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Lastochka, An idea - if you are connected to Czech wiki or Czech groups then please ask for their votes for 1956, and extend our support for Prague Spring in 2008 - I will certainly vote for it when the time comes, and Im sure they'd be willing to vote for 56 if they knew it was up. BTW, quite an impressive jump today - good work to you and Alensha! Istvan 21:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

No kidding! and I hope this Hungarian Revolution thing doesnt morph into more current event than historical reference. Thanks for the promotion BTW - your promotion and Ryanjo's editing are great helps in putting 56 up as feature on 23 Oct. Istvan 16:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations on the AID victory! and thanks for the barnstar too.Istvan 02:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Szívesen. (that's "you're welcome") and egeségedre (close analog to "cheers" in the US sense). I purposely only gave those to people who were not already awarded one from you (it would look odd) it is up to you to do as you choose. I was thinking that the first thing we should do is to archive all the old discussion and start the discussion page with a clean slate. Although the article is not in good shape, it is much better now than it was two or three weeks ago - we should remember to recognise those who have put their hearts into it. Also, please dont expect a mass influx of attention - the AID response is often underwhelming, though we may be suprised (its amazing what a small group of dedicated people can do). Still, this is the nominal process to take towards feature status. Istvan 15:59, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but could I make a suggestion? that the very last bits from the previous discussion (now in the archive) be retained; I would suggest at a minimum NCurse's comments, and at a maximum everything below "50-years old echo" - These are still somewhat topical. (I certainly dont want to seem to be reverting your edits, especially that I recommended...)Istvan 17:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, its done without reverting.

Re: 1956 revolution article

Generally, the introduction should be a ~3-paragraph overview/summary of the entire article. While it doesn't have to go into too much detail, it should be pretty understandable if read alone (without the remainder of the article). Kirill Lokshin 18:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Lastochka, I think to go from AID to FA(C) we need lots of tidying up and especially more photos (lots of them). Its too early to put this up for FA right now, but I think by the time you hear back from the HA re: copyright and can put up the photos, then it will be ready. Istvan 01:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment - yes, its coming along very nicely, and yes, it was a big pile of garbage a few months ago but the credit goes to all, and especially to Ryanjo for starting the process - putting it into the shape of a real article. What is remarkable - compared to about a year ago, is how much progress has occurred with so little discord. Still, - ne igyál elõre...

I think it should go up as FAC right away. As for the photos, we cant wait for them anymore - the clock will kill us, and if we can somehow swing it during the review process, then it will certainly be almost as good.

The main thing now besides the photos, is the unevenness of the references. Ironically, they are only appearing during the main body and are not repeated in the summaries of the top - I dont know if this is good form or not, Im sure we're about to find out... Istvan 22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: our new-and-improved 56 article

Very nice! I think the major concerns from the peer review have been resolved now; the only remaining points I can see are the title of the article and the large template at the bottom, and those are both fairly minor. I would suggest submitting this to the A-Class review, and, once that passes, moving on to FAC. Kirill Lokshin 14:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar :) (Sorry that I'm late, I just noticed it because I hardly ever watch my own user page :D) love, Alensha   16:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, we're up for peer review and Ive asked Kirill to give us a re-rate on the MilHist (so we dont have to overload the FAC nomination with caveats and give antihungarians an easy target). Question to you - what can we do to help the peer review request along? I intend to do more copyediting/streamlining but need your help with the photos - (creating the 56 barnstar illustrates the limits of my graphics abilities) Thanks!Istvan 19:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Szia, Ncurse, the freshly minted Hungarian admin, wrote back regarding the 56 pics (its on my talk page)

"Hi! Of course, I'll try to help you in that wonderful task. So I've contacted with some admins on IRC, and they've agreed with me about the tag: Template:CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat, with the exact source and an e-mail address. And we should send a new mail to the owner of that page to inform him about these images. I hope it helps. NCurse work 06:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)"

So, this looks like a green light to me. Do you see anything wrong with using them? Istvan 07:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi L, there is a page on the commons called "Hungarian Revolution of 1956" that contains all the ones I uploaded plus all the Newspaper front page Images. Could you please link your uploads there so we have them all in one spot? Dont worry about axeing Konev - Im not cyring for him. He was just a placeholder, and the only remarkable thing about the photo is how he resembles Rkosi. Istvan 19:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I am as frustrated about it as you - perhaps a statement "reminder: 1956 was a revolution, not a species of tree frog, nor a video game, nor someone's bus stop". Emotion is prerequisite to revolution. Washing it out is censorship. To force a moral equivalency upon unarmed demonstrators on one hand, and those who would fire upon them with heavy weapons on the other is both wrong and factually incorrect. To describe 56 without reference to emotion is like describing Monet without reference to colour. Perhaps there should be a new guideline "56:rev". How to overcome this? Every Hungarian must vote "strong support", lobby every wikipedian they know, and mention, in their own words, that 56 was a very bloody revolution and the strong emotions were a very real cause of it: the ÁVH *was* hated, people *did* dissapear under Rákosi (often on the flimsiest of pretenses), the phrase "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" *was* indeed used, and often. And to top it off, this is all mentioned in the referenced UN report that nobody seems to read. To ignore these is to ignore the event itself. Im preaching to the choir, I know... Istvan 04:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Hungary portal

I was wondering, would you be interested in working with me on Portal:Hungary? It's nice to see you love Hungary this much :) It is now updated every second week only, and I don't know how frequently are other portals updated, but I'm sure the popular portals are updated more often... Right now I'm the only maintainer of it, because every other Hungarian editor was just too happy to leave it to me :) but maybe the two of us could update it weekly. – Alensha   16:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

It would be enough if you could contribute to the portal every two weeks, I would do it for the other 2 weeks, then it would have weekly updates, like most of the portals. Then we could also ask our very first Hungarian admin to help making that "currentweek" system, then we could make the selected articles in advance and it would update automatically and would help archiving the previous updates (I don't really know how that system works...)

About politics: I long decided it's not worth worrying about, I only vote at local elections and there I vote for the candidate who could do the most for the city, without caring about which party he belongs to... :D

– Alensha   17:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I used to vote for Fidesz too but now they're allied with KDNP, a far too right-wing ultra-religious party, and in my opinion Fidesz managed to alienate many of its former supporters... now there are simply no good parties to vote for. >:-( – Alensha   18:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

They have to, because MSZP is allied with SZDSZ and together they have more voters than Fidesz, and Fidesz had to look for some party to be allied with. Now, at the local elections I haven't even seen "Fidesz candidates", only "Fidesz-KDNP candidates". I don't know much about politics but this should be forbidden that minor parties stick to the large ones and in the end they are the ones who decide the outcome of an election... like that anarchist SZDSZ would be nowhere without MSZP, KDNP would be nothing without Fidesz, and these alliances do nothing but keep these stupid small parties important. – Alensha   18:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

and Fidesz was a liberal party at the beginning, and they're becoming more and more conservative. I'm too young to be conservative yet :D – Alensha   18:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with that :) btw I guess on HuWiki we would already have been warned about all this politics talk; it's lucky that EnWiki admins don't keep an eye on everything :D – Alensha   18:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

You're welcome. :) Have you uploaded the images to Commons? What about FAC? I'm a reviewer of Misplaced Pages Release Version team, I can take a serious look at the article, when you plan to nominate it. NCurse _work 18:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

FAC involvement

Hi! I rewritten my support vote, but I don't see why I would have to be an involved editor to say that it is great (and also seeing its original state I could say "it has become"). Anyway I didn't write on the FAC page that I was an involved editor as I didn't actually edit the article (not that I remember), I am proud that I found the Time cover for it and permission to use some newspaper covers (now on commons, that were'nt used as theye are in Hungarian, and thanks to you there are many, more informative pictures in the article), but I don't feel ashamed or anything because I didn't edit the article itself, as with no actual involvement in the events (maybe my grandparents), not seeing any films about it (and even if I have they still would have been fiction), not learning about it in school yet, not reading any books or reports about it, and with the Hungarian article (that I could have translated text from) wasn't in such a good shape, I just didn't feel that I could add anything to it apart from my moral support and technical suggestions (for ex. here). Hope you understand, and you don't see this as me rejecting my connection to this article by not stating that I am an involved editor in it, but as not stating a lie , though if you (really, really )feel that it wouldn't be stating a lie, I would really be a happy person "running" to the FAC page telling the whole world that I was an editor on that article.--Dami 12:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Szervusz Lastochka, yes, its tilting our way. I hope the vote is soon, because Ive been "warned" to have all our AHF pics deleted from the commons. Do you know of a plan B? Either a different tag or hosting on the EnWiki itself? Ive put out some pleas for help, but alas.... It would really suck if those were yanked right before the vote. BTW, Paul keeps saying the UN doc ref doesnt work for him - it works for me, what about you? Istvan 02:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

WE'RE FA!!!!! pop the pezsgõ !!! lets get our nom up! Istvan 20:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the barstar award. I appreciate it, and accept it with gratitude and humility, though I'm a latecomer to this effort. It is User:Istvan, and User:Ryanjo who have been laboring away at this article for a very long time. I'm glad they put it up for AID, or I wouldn't have noticed it. Congratulations to all!--Paul 22:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

FA for 23 October

Well we'd better get our nom up immediately. I notice some noms mention (in the nominating text) a requested date for feature. Since 23 October is the very next one to be chosen, I would suggest to put up Paul's version of the textbox, and a version of my text as the nom article (which includes the ref to 50th anniversary, bravest act, etc.) (please see NCurse's request to Raul654 - it worked) just keep it coolheaded. Would you like to do the honours this time? Paul? Ryanjo? First one gets it. I dont want to hog these things. If nobody has put something up in one hour, I will do it. Istvan 21:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey KL, take a look at the queue now... :) Istvan 04:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar of St. Stephen

Many thanks for the barnstar and kind words. Your enthusiasm, tact and wit comes through in the words of Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Regards, Ryanjo 00:07, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

And thank you from me too! That was quite a coordinated effort! To have made so much progress with so little conflict is remarkable (lets all remember the lessons of Muhi and not celebrate too early) KL, your passion, brains and drive have been decisive in our success. Istvan 01:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes

Your boxes are nice too :) Why don't you put them in Babelbox templates so that they will be under each other, not scattered around on the page? :) – Alensha  19:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

just like you did with the language boxes. check the source of my userbox page to see. :) – Alensha  19:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Trolling

Please first take it easy. :) It happens really often in wiki. Second, I try to join the debate by sending a message to the Jacob Peter user. Hope it helps. Anyway this kind of editing (not vandalism) must always be handled by community dynamics. You have to explain why he is wrong with his edits. Then if he continues, you can contact other admins. That's the best way to walk on. NCurse _work 06:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Budapest

This might be a better place for this kind of talk: You might be right in that that the police is a bit harsh, but from here its just a POV:

• the protesters didn't get permission for protesting anywhere else but the Kossuth square so after leaving it you might argue that the police had the right to "read the riot act" ,also after being chased out of K. square they could have just gone home or they had the right to protest on the streets
• when this all started there were about 200 injured policemen (about two weeks ago) that has led them to be a bit more radical
• also one could argue that order has to be kept (see Death of a president film, how the American police deals with protesters)
• also I would argue that whatever Gyurgyáncs have commited or might have commited or didn't commit isn't reason good enough to disturb the commemoration events

Anyway the point is that Hungary is a bit divided now, and things won't get better in my opinion if either radical change doesn't happen (MDF or MIÉP winning an election) or the protesters won't get bored or too cold on the streets. Also if you want to get a full picture see these pictures:

• http://index.hu/gal?dir=0610/belfold/lefoglalt/ - weapons found in Kossuth square after protesters left (some are camping equipment (that can be used as weapons, not too safe near the delegations), but some are undenyable weapons)
• http://index.hu/gal?dir=0610/belfold/okt23_3/ - people shot by rubber bullets and such
• http://index.hu/politika/belfold/2006/elkurtuk/galeriak/ various other pictures

--Dami 18:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, If you'd like I could provide you with semi-real time commentary based on Index.hu-s reporting if you'd like.--Dami 19:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I didn't think you were, I was just trying to illustrate that it can be seen from two sides, and neither is an utopistic view (the people are rioting for truth vs. order and peace is kept according to the rules of democracy). I mentioned Miép as earlier Csurka(their leader) said that both Gyurcsány and Orbán should leave the political palette.

About this whole thing I'm just sad, as it totally ruins Hungarys reputation in the sense that it has been peaceful and stabil in the region... also I'm not a fan of Gyurcsánys "packet" but these protest also have a negative effect on the economy and I fear this will make things worse.--Dami 19:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Mancs

Yes, I know :( We already added the info to the articles (I learned about his death in Hungarian Wkipedia...) – Alensha  20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

his statue in the downtown is surrounded by candles... people loved him so much. – Alensha  16:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

thanks you

dear friend, nice to find some nice people in wikipedia, my work in hungarian and slovak wikipedia is a lot easier. for slovak/serbian problem is necessary to speak/read hungarian, but I did some achievment and evereone can read my opinion at discussion site. --Mt7 10:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi!

Hi! Thanks for your words, I didn't know, that I have to deal with some real brickheads here, I thought it is a speciality of smaller wikis, like huwiki... see example here. PS: I made that kind-of-userbox on huwiki what you have on yr userpage's upper right corner, but linked to the article instead of the flag. (but at least, the line: 1956-2006. 50 éve - and the flag - remained from it :) )--VinceB 13:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your lines again :) Silly thing that I'm usually better informed than them :) Oh, I had to dea with a guy, who is concerned, that the Kingdom of Hungary was an apartheid system (with a hungarian supremacy) read this - No comment. Only going through the maps, you can find tons of mistakes (or some intresting/weird stuff), like showing Budapest (instead of separated Pest and Buda) on "pre-1873" maps, or showing Bratislava instead of Pressburg on "pre-1919" maps, to point some obvious ones. I've just started a (seems to be long long long) journey right now, to adjust the contents of these pages to the cruel world outside reality. Main problem is that most of the, let me say bullshit, what can be found in hu-related history articles are derivered from this article, and I'm not an expert in ethinc stuff and not even was intrested in it before, just history. If you know some users here, who are well informed, please, let me know. Thanks!

PS: I took the flag off on nov 4. (for some reason) --Vince 14:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're absolutely right! (As I see, I'm not the first one, who got this...umm..."not nice"...umm..."welcoming" from them) Do you (we) have any new project(s) since the 56 article? Maybe I can help too. Take care, regards --Vince 15:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Borat

Hey...I similarly asked for semi-protection for the Nursultan Nazarbayev article, and it was also denied. I don't understand why they need mass, prolonged vandalism to protect it? I think all wikipedia articles should be semi-protected, or at least the vast majority of them. Oh well. Thanks for trying again.--Thomas.macmillan 19:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to thank you for trying to get this protected. I cannot figure out why the request was denied. Thanks anyway, KazakhPol 01:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Puskás

Hi KL, I nicked your userbox for Puskás öcsi - I didnt think you would mind (sincerest form of flattery and all...) normally I dont "do" userboxes, but this is such an exception.... thanks. István 05:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

signature test

I just tried "Magyarizing" my unusually Russian signature, here's to see if it works... K. Lastochka 03:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow, nope. let's try again...K. Lástocska 03:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

There we go!

Hungarians

No, I did not said that Hungarians do not exist as a nation. There is no doubt that Hungarians as a nation exist, but I only speak about origin of the Hungarians, which is mostly Slavic. If you do not trust to me, then trust to this: http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/EuropeMap+Tree.jpg I am not talking here from my head, by I speak what I saw in sources. That map for example show that Hungarians are not different at all from Poles and Ukrainians. And regarding those Hungarians who "look sort of Asiatic", that is called a mestizo (i.e. half European-half Asian), but even among them you have a Slavic half. :) However, according to this genetic map, number of such "mestizo Hungarians" is really not a large one. Regarding racism, the racists claim that their own race is better than other race. Did I claimed something like that? No, I did not. What I said is that Hungarians and Slavs belong to SAME race and I never said that one race is better than another. So, how can that be a racism? And Serbs do have much Illyrian and Thracian blood of course, did I ever said something different? Read all my posts on all talk pages and then make conclusion. Regarding statement that "Hungarians are not Hungarians", I did not meant that Hungarians today are not a nation, but that they are not Hungarians according to the definition what was one Hungarian 1000 years ago. I am not native English speaker, so I might not always express my thoughts in English in proper manner. PANONIAN (talk) 02:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Jaj, csak nem megint evvel a teljesen rossz genetikai mappával jön... már megmagyaráztam neki, hogy miért egy nagy marhaság, de úgy látszik nem értette meg. Például, ha jól megnézed a térképet, látod hogy a Norvégoknak ugyanolyan genetikája van mint a Macedónoknak meg a Cseheknek (???) :). Nem tudom hogy mennyire profik azok akik csinálták, de pld. nem áll sehol, hogy eggyáltalán milyen embereket és hol (ez nagyon fontos lenne) teszteltek. Én is tudnék 10 embert tesztelni, de az erdemény akkor sem mondana semmit. --Öcsi 16:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"What I said is that Hungarians and Slavs belong to SAME race and I never said that one race is better than another." Hey, comedian, you are joking again. Bruhahaha! --Öcsi 16:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I've given a definition of 1000-years-old-hungarians to you on Talk: Sajan (village), and I would estimate that 66% (that's 2/3) of today's hungarians look very similar to one of the two groups. --Öcsi 16:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you know which kind of people use expressions like "race"; yes, I think you are guessing right. Öcsi

And by the way, I did not saw you here much before, so I assume that you are relativelly new user (I might be wrong), but you may notice that my statements there were simply answer to some Hungarian users here, who for a long time trying to "prove" that entire Central Europe is "ancient Hungarian land". So, I really do not care from where Hungarians came, but I only showed to them that they are in big delusion about some things. PANONIAN (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"Isn't EVERY nation/ethnic group/people different now than they were 1000 years ago?"

But that was exactly my point there: those Hungarian users that I mentioned claim that Magyars today are same as they were 1000 years ago and that entire Central Europe belong to them. Regarding the Slavic origin of the Hungarians, that do not refer to origin of those Hungarians from 1000 AD, but to origin of present-day Hungarians, that are, according to many sources, rather descendants of Pannonian Slavs than of Hungarians that settled here under Arpad. Also, the present-day Hungarian language have many Slavic words and Hungarian folk music in Vojvodina have many similarities with Serbian one. Regarding those namers, Attila is not Magyar, but Hunnic name, while Vajk could be of Slavic origin (according to one source it is Magyarized version of Slavic name Vuk ("wolf"), and there are many Serbs with name Vuk). So, you again did not understood what I said because I did not claimed that original Hungarians are of Slavic origin, but only present-day Hungarians. And yes, six months that you are here is not a long period by my opinion, but you should look to see more about edits of some users like Bendeguz, fz22, Osci, HunTheGoat, VinceB, etc, and then you will have a full picture about what I speak here. PANONIAN (talk) 03:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You are the one here, who is talking about Greater Hungary and Greater Serbia and editing ambiguous maps. --Öcsi 16:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

And "Vajk" has nothing to do with "Vuk". --Öcsi 16:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, regarding sources, I showed you map about genetic origin of the modern Hungarians, it is from the United Kingdom source, so I do not see why it should not be accurate. I also have some books in Serbian about this, but I do not think that these books could be usefull to you. And regarding these Hungarian editors from the list, we have these arguments not for months but for years already, so if you have few years to spend here, you can start to argue too. :)) PANONIAN (talk) 04:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

1. There are plenty of Hungarians who look sort of Asiatic, I've seen some. They don't look like the Khanty, but they don't look entirely Slavic either.

2. Even though it is obvious that the original, Asiatic Magyar tribes have in the past 1000 years intermarried and had children with various Slavic peoples from the region, thereby ending up looking more "European", that doesn't mean that "the Hungarians are not Hungarians at all." Such an argument is at best silly and at worst downright racist. It smells of ugly theories of "racial purity" that have terrorized the world for centuries. I'm sure even the Serbs have some "foreign" blood in them. Surely the current Hungarians are somewhat different from the original Hungarians that went with Arpad into the Carpathian basin a millenium ago, but do NOT tell me that "the Hungarians are not Hungarians." As long as we have our language, our stories, our music, our...interesting national character :), and our culture in general, the Hungarians ARE still "real" Hungarians. K. Lástocska 01:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Na, én is pont ugyanezt mondom neki, és mi a válasz: Vagy az hogy egy irredenta nagy-magyarországos vagyok, vagy félrebeszél és ma´s témát kezd. Olvasd csak el a Talk: Sajan (village) elsö részét.--Öcsi 17:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey! Quit arguing on MY talk page, take the fight to your own! :)K. Lástocska 02:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Bibó again

The absolutely right man for you is User:OrbitOne. Please contact him, he'll surely be able to help. NCurse _work 06:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

From another KL

Hi there Lástocska (am I right in guessing – using the interwiki on this page – that your name actually means a kind of swallow, or fecske?), I don't use the User talk namespace too much but a few things came to my mind recently that I want to tell you:

• "Puskás Öcsi" should be written with a capital Ö, since "Öcsi" is used as a nickname in place of his given name "Ferenc". Do please fix that. (I know it's a wiki, but I somehow don't like the idea of editing other people's user pages or comments.)
• I'm not sure you noticed that it was me who put up the "Special Moments" article on AfD but if you did, I don't quite know what to think about your comment on the noticeboard the other day... you hopefully didn't mean what it looks like it's saying. Anyways, I hope I'll be able to enter the discussion there later today.

Have a nice day & thanks for your involvement into Hungarian topics,

KissL 11:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Hungary portal, and problem articles

Szia! No problem, I haven't had any time for the portal either, so I can't blame others for not having time for it :) btw it's not hard to edit portals, that's what the small "edit" links are for in the different sections :) I just started a new portal for my hometown, it is kind of a vanity project, but I've always planned to do so :) If you want to try and update the Hungary portal, the next update will be due around 15th Dec (since I promised when I took over the portal that it'll be updated at least twice a month...)

I've seen the list of problem articles too, but those subjects are bound to lead to big nationalistic wars and I don't really like being involved in those... I'm sure the Polish Wikipedians would be nice to us, Polish people generally like Hungarians :) and theirs is a large Misplaced Pages community (plwiki is among the 10 largest WPs if I remember well). They could be of help but it shouldn't look like a Polish-Hungarian alliance against the Slovak-Serbian alliance. :)

– Alensha  20:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

There aren't many Czechs around here, I've noticed that too. Will you ask the Poles for help? I don't really know where do we need help right now; haven't been following the problem artices for a while. (btw I like Poland too, I have some Polish ancestry :) – Alensha  21:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's really my birthday :) Thanks! (my Miskolc portal was kind of a wiki-gift to myself, I planned to start it today :) – Alensha  22:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Liszt

Um…I have a book of music that says the place he was born isn't in Austria or Romania: Raiding??? I thought that place mentioned in the article was the place he was born, but now I'm confused…? —  $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 23:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Un-confused; Raiding is in Austria. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 23:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

yeah, isn't Central European geography fun! :) K. Lástocska 00:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

That's for sure…the one place where my knowledge is weak. <shakes head> :P —  $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 00:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't help that everything's changed its name at least five times and belonged to about eight thousand different countries/kingdoms. We still haven't figured it all out! :) K. Lástocska 00:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Independence and Foundation

(sounds like Asimov, hmm?) Your textbox edit works just fine. Dont feel you need to apologise for anything here, those Central Europe pages are sometimes short of diplomats. István 21:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC) Thank you for the kind words István 13:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

RfA...

Thank you. I must say, I thought long and hard about leaving you a message, but again, as "advertising" appears to be frowned upon, I resisted. However, I will let you know next time. By the way, are we ready to do anything new with the '56 Revolution article? I've still got a few ideas kicking around, and then there's that dormant template... Biruitorul 01:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A section on events outside Budapest was indeed one of my desiderata and fortunately, we still have the raw text here. Time permitting, I'll convert that into article format within a few days/weeks. I just noticed we make no mention of the Suez Crisis - the fact that it happened during the Revolution is a pretty big deal because it distracted the West and allowed the USSR to intervene. I also think we should have something on historical interpretations (maybe in a separate article) - why did it happen? What did they want to do? We don't truly know, but the speculation is interesting and, provided we find proper citation, could be included. Finally, I agree on the need for more discussion of repercussions. We do give a fairly good overview in the "Aftermath" section, but more is evidently needed. For instance, I've been planning something on the simultaneous student protests in Romania (thousands of both nationalities arrested and 24 eventually executed) - since the materials are mostly in Romanian, I'll do the bulk of the work on that one. So, in sum, there's a lot to do, but there's a lot else going on in our lives; hopefully by early January we'll see some results. Biruitorul 04:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

memo to myself...

Found a good link to a Hungarian history database, figured I'd put it here before I forgot it. :) KL The Library of Congress >> Especially for Researchers >> Research Centers >> Hungary

Just be aware that it dates to September 1989 - right before some pretty important stuff.... István 04:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks--looks pretty good for earlier things though. :) K. Lástocska 16:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Ghirlaphobia

Your accusations of "the large amounts of accusations of extremism, nationalism, trollism and other nasty things coming from Ghirla" are taken seriously. Welcome to the ranks of Ghirlaphobes. --Ghirla 08:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your kind comments on my RfC. And yes, welcome to the ranks of those who have dared to criticize Ghirla. You will know no peace... :> PS. Ghirla has a custom of reverting 99% of critical comments from his talk page, I suggest you reply to him here if you want your comment to be visible.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not a 'Polish-Russian war', as much as Ghirla is trying to make it look like one; there are many 'eastern' editors who are perfectly reasonable; I hope we will hear from them soon. As for I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have said anything - do remember: The only thing necessary for the triumph is for good men to do nothing. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I am actually partially sorry to have involved anybody in this. Wiki is my hobby, it usually relaxes me - but Wiki politics is not my idea of 'fun', and this particular conflict is honestly the worst experience I have had in many, many months. Something must be done to solve this, but I have no idea what. Hopefully some people at this RfC seem to have an idea (mediation? again? I would try it...). Anyway, I posted a loooong answer of many issues raised by several users on talk. If this doesn't show the people the root of the problem, well, I am running out of options. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  21:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

This message is what the RFC is about. Piotrus, please look at your contributions and estimate how much of them are "requests for input", "Ghirlandajo said... so I search for your opinion", "I know that you have had conflicts with Ghirla, so please comments on his latest outburst...", "thanks for reporting on Ghirla's actions", etc, etc. I don't how others feel in such situations, but I regards such actions as objectionable and incivil. How many Russian editors did you ask to comment? I suspect that zero. Can you name a single instance when I acted this way? --Ghirla 17:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Gentlemen, please do not use MY talk page for YOUR arguments.K. Lástocska 17:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what they are there for :) Seriously, WP:CABAL#On_Wikipedia_and_the_Cabal sais it all, and if some people still use - and believe - the cabal arguments, well, that's only to be expected; in the end, this is little different from other conspiracy theories out there. As for RfC, I believe that the best thing that can happen is if more people see it and comment. The number of biased users is tiny, but of course such groups will tend to gather around such threads. If others learn about them, the vast neutral and fair majority will silence them - and we already are begining to see this. Thus I am not suprised some users try to ironically limit the number of people who learn about this RfC - if they can get only a few people to comment, they win, if many come, they will loose... so once again, thank you for your comments. If you want, you can continue to take part in the discussions or ask others to comment, but you have already done a lot. Thank you again, -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  03:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't think he has much of a point, but I apologized for the one offensive remark I can think of. In the end, for each slight I might have done - after being provoked by his much more incivil comments - he has done hundreds. It would be interesting to see if he will not admit I have a point, or apologize. That would be a first.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Portal

Looks good. I knew you'll find it easier than you thought :) Usually the subjects of the featured article and the featured picture are not related (b/c the aim of the portal is to cover a wide range of topics), but on special occasions like this one they can be. Congratulations on your first portal-update! – Alensha  16:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Your joke

Thank you for your apology, which was very nice of you, but it really wasn't necessary. "Impale" does indeed bring up instant associations with Vlad, especially internationally. I for one am not part of the ever-increasing group of individuals who takes "offense" at the drop of a hat. If someone insults Romania or expresses anti-Romanian sentiments (which you didn't), I use reason and logic to try and bring him round to what I see as a more enlightened position; I don't walk away in feigned disgust. And if someone is persistently anti-Romanian, I don't begrudge him the right to hold that opinion; I may even be his friend. For, though I am a nationalist/patriot, I realize that all nations are but temporary creations of man (some more enduring than others), one day set to be swept away entirely. So if you were so inclined, you could hurl all the insults you wanted to at my people; I wouldn't think the less of you, particularly because the Transylvania issue is still a painful one for many Hungarians. Biruitorul 23:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

July, August... I'll cool off for a while (wrong season for that metaphor, but you get the idea). Biruitorul 23:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)